187. THE BONIFACE OPTION | ANDREW ISKER INTERVIEW

Building Christian Neighborhoods and Putting Down Roots

Well, hello, everyone. Welcome back to the broadcast. This special episode today because we're going to be interviewing a guy that I have not known forever, but I read his book, The Boniface Option, which is incredible.

And I'm so excited because he's thinking the same way we're thinking. And I want him to come on and be able to show you and cast you a vision of how do we actually take back the world for Christ. So with that, I'm gonna welcome my new friend, Andrew Isker.

Andrew, welcome to the show, my friend. Oh, thank you for having me. Yeah, so like, tell me, softball question, right? If somebody's not aware of what you're doing, your ministry, what have you been involved in?

Tell us some things that you're doing because, man, it's really exciting.

Yeah, so what I'm, yeah, I guess now currently doing, I'm down in Tennessee and we've planted a church down here and there's a project to build, you know, just basic residential subdivisions, but have, you know, bring people from all over the country to, you know, build new communities, new neighborhoods and to be able to to be able to have, you know, older American forms of life where you can have, you know, small towns again and know your neighbors and things like that.

And so we've been, yeah, we've been at that for going on two years now or almost three years now. And it's exciting, you know, a lot of people have moved to the area and houses are about to start going up and it's just, yeah, it's really exciting, really fun.

And, and you can, you actually can just build things and do things.

So tell me this, like why, why start a new subdivision, new neighborhood? Like what's the, what's the telos of it? What are, what are you aiming at by building a neighborhood, inviting people to come and live there?

Yeah, I think the, you know, the purpose of it is, I mean, for one, a lot of people are, well, just by the very nature of how our, how our society is structured today, are very transient, you know, move around for, for jobs and for work, move all over the country all the time.

And this is, is something where you can, you know, actually put down roots and, and be part of, be part of a real human scaled, you know, community. Rather than just living in, in a random suburb, right.

Completely separated and, and atomized from, from everybody else. You don't know your neighbors. You don't know, you know, anyone you're, you're, you're more or less kind of alone, right. You'll, you'll have a church, right.

But you, the people in your church are spread out over, usually over a large metropolitan area where you don't, you know, you don't really, if you go over to their house, it's, you know, 20, 30 minutes away.

Like you don't have any, any people next door. And even if you make the attempt to get to know people in your neighborhood, it's, it's extremely hard. People don't want to have relationships and, and to be neighbors in the same way that, you know, most people, you know, grew up with.

So it's, it's a goal to, to be able to, to have that once again, to be able to, to be part of something where, where your children can grow up in a place that, that you, you know, everyone, you know, your neighbors, you know, you can just send them outside and have them go play, you know, like something that seems, I mean, it was just ubiquitous.

And I think in anyone, you know, our age and older, their childhood is, is now it's like, whoa, you can't do that. What are you talking about? And so that's, that's, you know, more or less it to be able to, to be able to have the kind of scale also to, to be able to do things, to be able to have, you know, Christian schools, to be able to, you know, collaborate together on, on businesses and, and various civic projects.

You know, all, all of those things make it far, far more easier to, to have that kind of a world once again. Yeah.

It sounds almost like a return to 18th century New England kind of living because I'm in New England and it's absolutely true. Nobody wants to talk. Nobody wants to make eye contact. They're just doing their thing and they're living their life.

But having a community like this, where like in Jonathan Edwards' day, the church was in the center of the community. The businesses were involved in the community. Almost everything that you needed was, was completely in that community so that everyone could do life.

Everyone could share life together, pray together, their kids play together. I mean, that's what you're talking about, right? Yeah.

Yeah, very much so. And of course, you know, it's, it's something where, okay, why are things the way they are? There's a multitude of reasons for that. But the question then is, well, is it possible to, to have things the way that, the way that people really everywhere always lived until, until very, very recently, until the last 20 or 30 years.

And, and what are the, what are the things that, that you can do to have that? What, and, and, and what does it, what does it look like once you do? And, and, and so, you know, a lot of it is right. You can't, you can't always just go back and step into like, you know, 18th century New England, right?

It's, it's not so simple. It's not as easy to do that where it's like, oh, we're just gonna, we're just gonna build our own, you know, Boston or, or Massachusetts Bay or whatever. Like, like, no, it doesn't work quite like that.

But I think, you know, especially now where, where so many people have, have remote work and, and can really just live anywhere they want to in the country or really the world. You know, why not, why not do this, right?

Why not, why not build those kinds of things once again? And so that's, that's more or less it. And, and it's, it's exciting, just the, the, the prospect of being able to have that, right? And I think people really long for that.

It's not so much that, that nobody has those things and nobody has that, that way of life because they don't want to. But, but everything is structured way outside of their control to be able to do that, even if they want to.

Yeah.

I think to myself, one of the biggest challenges you'll have, and it's a good challenge. It's a, it's an opportunity, um, is to convince people that they actually need this. Because I think so many people have just accepted the status quo that, hey, I, my friends live 30 minutes away.

And my church is 45 minutes away. Uh, that whole like industrial revolutionized suburbia lifestyle has been so forced down our throat. We don't even know that we need it anymore. And yet the evidence is all over the place because we're the most medicated, most depressed, most lonely society that's ever existed.

I wonder why.

Well, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think, yeah, I don't think it takes actually a whole lot of convincing. I think everybody kind of already, like they know it, they know it that, oh, that would be kind of nice.

That would be nice to, to, to live in a place where, where it's normal, uh, where people are normal, where, where, uh, you can feel safe. Uh, not just, you know, your physical safety and, and, you know, being away from crime.

Uh, but also to just, you know, be who you are, to not have to walk on eggshells around people. Um, and to, to just, you know, be publicly Christian or to be publicly, you know, conservative. Uh, people aren't able to, you're not able to do that.

You have to, you have to pretend to, to not be those things, um, in order to exist, uh, in much of America. So, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I think, yeah, that actually, yeah, there's not a whole lot of convincing that needs to be done.

A lot of it is like, is it real? Can it really, can you really do that? Can you really have, have these things? Uh, more of the challenge is, um, I think you just, you have people that come from all over different parts of the country.

And, and you don't have roots in a place. And so that's, that's the harder thing is, um, first taking root somewhere. And that is, you know, a place that's foreign to you. Um, that, that, that's, that's much more of the challenge I think is, is, you know, being able to, you know, to adapt and to, um, yeah, live in a new place.

And, and, and of course, a lot of the people, you're not going to know them. You're going to have the like deep connections, uh, right. As soon as you land somewhere, right. It's, it takes time, uh, to take root.

And, and so that's much more of the challenge I think is, is those kinds of things more than, uh, more than, oh, should I just live in a cookie cutter suburb where I don't know anybody at all? Um, uh, yeah, most people don't want that.

And there's, that's just the only option they have. Um, so yeah.

Retreat, the Benedict Option, and Taking Ground for Christ

I love it, brother. And I think it's a good transition for us to go to the Boniface option. So just give us a 30 ,000 foot view. What is the Boniface option? Why did you write it? What was on your heart?

Like, I know that there's the Benedict option, right? So, uh, is this, is this a response to that? Tell me all about that.

Yeah, it's not so much a response to that book. Um, so much, I mean, I, I read it and I liked it. Um, but it, it left me feeling like, is that really all there is? Right? Like, uh, cause I think, you know, the general synopsis of that book is like, oh, we should retreat to intentional Christian community, which is, you know, kind of more or less, you know, what, what we're doing here is, is building, building those things.

But I read it and I thought like, well, if you do that, like they're not going to leave you alone, man. Like they're going to, right. And even if they like do, right. Even if they don't like take, you know, legal action or legislative action or the, the arm of the regime, right.

Doesn't, doesn't strike you forcefully, right. There's still no like escaping trash world, right. There's still no getting away from it. There's still, you know, you're still going to have an internet connection.

You're still going to have a TV and movies. Yeah. Even if you limit those things in your own home, it's still something that, that shapes the culture around you. And you're still, you're, you're still going to have the, the prevailing ideologies that are, are insane encroaching upon you.

All right. Even if you, even if you retreat to this place where everybody more or less is, is like you. And so that was the thing that I, that I was left with after reading it. It's like, there's gotta be more than we can do.

And, and so that's, yeah. When I, when I started thinking about these things and writing about them, I mean, really that book came out, I think 2017 and I started, you know, writing and thinking about this stuff, you know, 2017, 2018 around there.

And, um, my, my major, you know, contention is that there needs to be, um, not just this perpetual retreating and, um, and, and sort of this defeatism, but, but rather we need to take ground, we need to go on the offensive.

We, we, we can't just seed everything to the bad people and, uh, hope it all, hope they, you know, leave us alone. Um, and, and, and of course that, that, that starts, um, it starts at an individual level and, and moves toward a corporate level where everybody has this, this sort of demeanor or attitude, but that that's, that's, you know, the major part of it is, uh, we don't, we don't have that.

We, we're, we're sort of trained and categorized to be very complacent and passive, um, to never, ever, ever, ever offend anyone or make them not like you or upset with the things you believe or the things that you think.

And that actually is very foreign to the Bible. It's very foreign to, um, the history of, of the church for 2000 years. It's a very modern thing. It's not, um, it's not really biblical Christianity that, that drives that.

That's not the driving force behind, you know, sort of the, the weakness and passivity, um, that is, is contemporaneous. Um, and, and so it's, you know, really a call to return to the way that we always were, um, uh, and, and a call to return to, um, to, you know, being, uh, aggressively Christian and, uh, and not, not apologizing for it.

Right. Just like, no, this is what God says. This is what we will do. I don't care if, if it upsets you. Um, and, and it's incredible, like what you can accomplish if that is, is, is sort of your demeanor and, and not just you as an individual, but, but like collectively, if you have a large group of people that are like, I just, I really don't care.

Like, yeah, as we're recording this, um, the, uh, Southern Baptist convention is having, you know, their yearly convention. And, um, for a very long time, uh, it was this go along, get along, very passive, um, attitude.

And, um, now things appear to have shifted. It appears that, that, um, you know, the leaders in, in, um, that, that they're not a denomination, but I call them that anyway, uh, that denomination, uh, are now like, uh, we don't really care.

We're the Bible says you can't have women pastors and we're not going to do that. We're going to, we're going to formally ban that and, uh, it passed, you know, overwhelmingly. And so you see that that's like, oh, I think things are maybe shifting there where of course, you know, there's New York times story on a CNN story on it.

All of the, you know, regime outlets are, are freaking out about it. It's like, how dare they, uh, not let women be pastors. And it's like, they don't care what the Bible says, obviously. Um, but that's what the culture is that way, where the culture, um, it's a tranny culture, right?

It's, uh, we don't make any distinction between men and women, right? We can actually even interchange them if we want. Um, and so of course they're going to think that that's insane. How could they do that?

That's just so, so misogynistic and evil. Uh, but well, the Bible says it and we believe it and that's what we're going to do. And so the men in that, that convention, it took a much more aggressive attitude toward these things.

Um, and of course, yes, right. Yeah. And it takes, it takes two years, uh, that devote on it again, a second year for it to officially happen. So every, every single stop is going to be pulled out, I'm sure next year, uh, to try to prevent that from happening.

Cause that's, that's what happened, I think a couple of years ago when it passed the first time, uh, and then narrowly failed the second time. Uh, but, uh, now I think people have started to realize that there is very clearly an antithesis between the way of the world and the way of biblical Christianity.

And, and we're no longer in a position where we can just pretend that, Oh, if we're nice enough, everyone will like us and it'll be okay. Uh, that, that sort of is the attitude of the last, you know, 40 or 50 years.

And, and that's, that's pretty much gone, you know, now. And, and it's good. It's good that it is right. We can't have peace with evil things. Uh, we have to oppose them and fight them. And so that, that, I mean, yeah, you asked for a 30 ,000 foot, I've gone on for about 10 minutes here, but that's, that's more or less it is, is that is more than anything else.

The attitude that like, no, we're, we've lost all of this ground and we've ceded all of this territory, uh, to people that, that hate us and hate our Lord. And it's, it's time to stop apologizing. It's time to stop being passive.

It's time to take territory back. And, um, if you're, if you're not gaining territory, you're going to be losing it. And, and all we've done for, you know, longer than my lifetime is just lose and lose and lose and lose.

And because we don't fight, we don't, uh, we don't oppose anything, uh, not in any effective way. And, um, and, and so that's, that's sort of the stuff I wrote about is right. There are so many insane things and we treat them as normal, uh, because that's, that's the world we were born into and that's all we've ever known.

Uh, but actually like from, from a historical perspective, from a biblical perspective, like there's so much insane stuff that we just accept and we shouldn't anymore. We should, we should, uh, fight it.

And, and it begins with like just you individually coming to realize that reality and then, um, then gathering together with, with everyone else who's come to that realization as well.

A Biblical Case for Holy Hatred and Rejecting Egalitarianism

Yeah, that's great, man. Two things that stood out to me, uh, in the book. Um, the way I think about it is like this, uh, culture of dispensationalism. Maybe if that's not even what it is behind it, but, but certainly a big part of it.

Uh, everybody just expects to lose. Like Christians expect that the world's just going to keep getting worse and worse. And it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy because the more we retreat, the worse the world gets because when you remove the salt, the, the animal that you're trying to preserve rots.

So culture's rotting because we are retreating. And then we think, oh, this is evidence that the end is coming. And just your book is so good at trying to convince us to have a winning mentality that we are meant to move forward, take ground, and, uh, it's compelling.

And then the other thing I love about it is the Benedict option. You're right. It's a good first step, but it doesn't give us anything after that. It gives us a fortress view of waiting out the war, which is not going to work.

So I like that there's an intentional, you could call it retreat. I would call it regrouping, uh, in, in order to actually make our path forward so that we can war and do that together. One more thing.

One of the things that's been so effective, the enemy, the enemy's job is to divide and conquer. And at our church, we have people who are driving for 45 minutes in all four cardinal directions. We are isolated people.

And I mean, it's just, it's got Satan's fingerprints all over it. I love the idea of intentionally regrouping, forming a strong nucleus. Why? So that we can go out and attack.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's really it is, um, we're, we're, we're so spread out and, and isolated, like you, like you've said. Um, and it's, it actually is really hard to do things when, because it's, it's not, you know, um, all the people that are driving, you know, in a radius, you know, 45 minutes around the church, it's not like that entire radius is just, uh, totally depopulated.

And you're, you're in somewhere like, like Wyoming or Montana. And there's like the only people there are the people in that 45 minute radius, uh, are the ones that go to your church. It's, it's a heavily populated area and you're, they're, they're a little dot among, you know, thousands and thousands of people.

And then the other little dot is over there.

I think 2 million people live in that radius. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It's, it's nuts. Right. And so, um, you know, I actually, I remember, I mean, some of the, um, some of the, the, the crucial moments, you know, that, that sort of, um, you know, went into this book.

I was, uh, briefly living in, in the twin cities in, in Minneapolis, St. Paul, you know, area. Um, and I remember driving at rush hour coming back from work and, you know, just stuck on the freeway in the middle of the city.

And, and you, you, you're very easily, you get the sense, you know, where you're just like overwhelmed. There's so many people, like just even just the cars, right. There's like 10 ,000 people, uh, uh, within site visual range.

Right. And then all of the, the high rise apartment buildings and everything else and thinking and feeling just overwhelmed by. Like how insignificant I was and how alone I was and how it's just me. And there's, uh, all these people around here, like, I don't know any of these people.

They don't know who I am. Um, and I don't have anyone that, you know, cares if my car just exploded right now. Like they would, maybe somebody would call 911 or something, but like beyond that, like nobody really care.

Um, and, and that, that feeling, especially if you live in a large, uh, metropolitan area. Right. It's that's intense. It's intense feeling if you actually stop and take it in. Um, and it's a completely different feeling when you've got dozens or hundreds or thousands of people who do know you and, uh, do care about you and believe the things that you believe and will stand up for you and, and you'll stand up for them.

Uh, that's a, that's a completely different thing. And, and guess what? They live near you and you could do things together regularly, like all, all week long, right? Every, every day you're, you're doing different stuff with, with different people.

And, and, and the sky's the limit really. Uh, that, that is, that's, that's like, you think of how, like how this, um, this country was originally built, it wasn't built by people that were, were totally atomized and isolated.

It was built by people that, that had neighbors and friends and, and loved ones all around them and working in concert together to, to build the things that, that we see now. And, um, the only way forward is to, to have those things once again, that, that you can't, like, you can't do this stuff.

You can't live this way when you're completely and totally alone. Uh, or where it's just you and your family. Uh, I mean, it would, it would be, um, it's actually even worse than if you were just living in the sticks in, you know, I mentioned Montana or Wyoming, like out in the, out in the Rockies somewhere.

There's not another soul besides you and your family for a hundred miles in every direction. Like that would actually be preferable, right? And I'm not, I'm not advocating for that at all, right? That, that, that level of like isolation is not good for anybody.

Uh, but it having 10 million people within a, within a hundred mile radius of you and still being alone is, is even worse. Um, because the people that are opposing you, right. They don't, they don't operate that way.

Like they, they know, right. All these people have my back, right. You can see this. Um, I mean, you can see this like in the, the anti-ice protests in, in Minneapolis that right. Just thousands, tens of thousands of people just show up to, to, to do this stuff.

And they're all, they're all working together. They're all there. Even if they don't know each other, they, they have this, you know, camaraderie and kinship and, uh, like we don't have things like that at all.

And, and, and largely because, I mean, again, like forces out of our control have, have made us to be isolated. But what if you didn't do that, right? What if you, uh, what if you live near your friends and live near, uh, your fellow church members and, and, uh, you're able to no longer be alone, right?

Then, then you're just kind of unleashed, uh, to do whatever, uh, whatever you want to, to build the things, uh, for your family and, and for the kingdom of God that, that are necessary.

Leaving Isolation, Reuniting the Church, and Building Together

It's such a smart point. Um, it's not a bug in the system. It's a feature to isolate us and, and to get us weakened. Um, one of the things that I've reflected on as reading your book is one of the bold masculine moves that, that I'm going to be implementing, um, is telling people who are of the same mindset, who are the only one in their church who has the same mindset.

I know this is super controversial, but leave your church and come here and let's coalesce around a vision and build something together. Stop wasting your time trying to do the Martin Luther, reform your church.

They're not reforming. Come and spend your life, spend your energy at a church that wants to do something, that wants to build something that wants to see Jesus's kingdom advance. So that was one of the things that I'm going to be doing.

I don't know how well it'll be received, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's, that's a lot of it too. I mean, I've never been like, yeah, you should definitely, cause everyone's situation is different, you know? But, uh, but if, if you are in that position where you're just spinning your wheels and you, you're not, um, you know, really accomplishing very much, uh, in, in that place, uh, that yeah, you should, you should look like places, churches like that exist.

Um, we, we often think that there's not like any good ones anywhere, but, but there are, there are, there are, there are many, uh, all over the country. Not as many as there should be. Uh, but hopefully we, we keep changing that.

Uh, but, but there are so many places you can go where, where, yeah, you, you might go somewhere and you don't totally perfectly slot in where, where they're at theologically, but, um, it'll still be like 90, 95%, you know, agreement.

It's like, okay, that's, that's great. Uh, to, to be in a place where, where you could just have normalcy, uh, for your family where, where you know that you are not going to like have a witch hunt, uh, after you, because like, I don't know, you believe your nation should have borders and that people that your country hasn't invited in, uh, need to leave, right.

Um, that you won't be brought on charges for, for that. Uh, like that's stuff that really happens too. Like there's, there's, uh, you're, you're under suspicion if you, uh, believe very, very normal things.

Um, and so, you know, you want to be in a place where, yeah. Um, you can, you can feel comfortable and safe. Uh, that's, that's not a, you know, weakness or a bad thing to, to want to have. Yeah.

The Story of Saint Boniface and the Evangelization of Germany

Uh, so with that, uh, it's sort of a, a long, elongated introduction, but I love it. Um, tell me, man, you say it's the Boniface option. Who is Boniface? What did he do? Why did that, why did his story mean so much to you in writing this book?

Ah, yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely one of my favorite stories, um, just from, from church history that, uh, yeah, St. Boniface was, um, was a, uh, a Saxon monk, um, who in, uh, the eighth, uh, century, he, um, he received a call to, to be a missionary.

And, you know, the land, um, to the, to the north and the east of the Rhine river was, was not Christian. It was, it was still pagan, uh, at that time. Um, and, uh, the, the Saxons in, in that area still, you know, still worship the Norse gods.

And, uh, and he went there, uh, he had taken, you know, a few trips, uh, before then, but on, on this particular trip, he, uh, he went there and, uh, went to their, uh, sacred oak, uh, you know, Donner's oak, uh, the oak of, of Thor, um, and he announced to them that, you know, the next day he was going to cut it down.

And, and of course they believed that if anybody touched, uh, this, this sacred tree that a bolt of lightning would, would kill them. And, and I, I believe that like, that's not just silly superstition, uh, like that stuff actually happened.

And, uh, he, uh, he went there the next day, you know, the word had gone out and a huge crowd had, had gone to watch him get, uh, get zapped. And he takes one swing of his ax and a wind comes out of the heavens and knocks the tree over.

And, um, there began the, um, evangelization of, of what is now, uh, Germany. And, um, and yeah, hundreds of people were converted that day and baptized and he, and he took the wood from the tree and constructed the first church in Germany, uh, out of it.

And, uh, I mean, yeah, it's an incredible story. It's great. It's, it's, it's wonderful. And, and so I, I thought about that, that story. Anyway, it's interesting to, you know, kind of the parallels between, um, between the is, you know, St. Boniface, I mean, the original book is named after St. Benedict, uh, the founder of, of, you know, Benedictine, uh, order of, of monks.

And Boniface was, was a Benedictine monk. And so they followed the, you know, the rule of St. Benedict and everything else. And, uh, it's like, okay, well, he was in the cloister and he left, he left to go, uh, on the offensive.

And, and that really is the, what, you know, the, the sort of animating feature, uh, of this book is, all right, now we're in the cloister. Now we've retreated. What do we do now? And it's time to go on, on the offensive.

Challenging Feminism, Transgenderism, and the Reordering of Family Life

Yeah. So as you're thinking about it, uh, it's, it's an incredible story. And I love the fact that, uh, it's like the whole town converted, you know, uh, just because he had the boldness to challenge the idol of the day and showcase Jesus's supremacy.

So what are the Donner's Oaks that, that we need to be aggressively chopping down so that the world could see the supremacy and the Lordship of Christ?

I mean, one of the, I mean, I mentioned, you know, several, uh, in the book, but I, I think the, uh, the preeminent one is, uh, all, all forms of egalitarianism and in particular feminism, um, that, that, that, um, idea or it seems sort of benign.

Well, don't we like women and we want them to, you know, have equality with men and, and, and everything else. Uh, right. It seems, it seems, well, it seems really nice, right? We want to be nice to the ladies.

Um, but that's not at, at root what it, what it is. It is, um, it is man, uh, remaking the image of God, um, according to his own design that, that God has designed male and female and has made us different.

It's made us, uh, to be what we, what we are. And, um, what, what that is, is seeking to, to strip away all, all the distinctions, uh, between, between men and women. And of course it, it reaches its apotheosis in transgenderism where, right.

The very last difference is the physical and biological distinction between men and women. We're like, well, we'll just, we'll just cut off, uh, you know, the parts that make us different and, and so on, some fake ones.

And, and then, you know, give that person the hormones of, of the sex that they really want to be. And, uh, now, now we've turned men to women and women into men and, uh. We frankensteined them. Yeah.

It's, but it, but it really is like the exact same impulse, right? I mean, uh, transgenderism is just, is just feminism. Feminism gone all the way is, is gone to full bloom. And, and, and so, right. You, you just think about like the basic, like design of humanity is that like only women are capable of producing new life, right?

Only women can have babies. And that should factor in significantly to how a society is structured, right? If you want to have a future generation, you want to incentivize women to get married and have babies.

And of course our society is, is the exact opposite. We, we make, we, we produce every possible incentive for women to not get married and women to not have babies. And, uh, and you, you can see the destruction, you know, that, that lays before us, uh, because of it and, and, and because of, you know, 50 or 60 years of, of women's liberation that we, um, have declining population.

Uh, we think that it's okay. Uh, we could just import people from third world countries to replace our, uh, all the people that have not been born and all the babies that we've killed. Um, and that doesn't, that doesn't work.

It doesn't work at all. And, uh, and so you could see like the root of, of so many of our, our political problems or economic problems, our, our social problems are, are, they're laid at the feet of, of this, uh, ideology.

And, and of course it makes everyone miserable. It makes women miserable. It makes everyone, you know, when you're not, you know, living in the manner in which you were designed to be, well, the result is like, you're, you're not going to feel great about that at all.

And like your life is, is going to be bad. Um, and, and so, you know, attacking that idol, uh, and fighting it, uh, right. It will bring all, all sorts of accusations that like, well, you hate women, you hate them.

You think women are stupid. They're not as smart as men. Uh, and, and it's like, well, they're, they're different than men. They have a different, uh, Talos. Uh, they, they are, uh, yeah, teleologically like that.

They, they, they accomplish different things, right? Men are, uh, much more aggressive and, and, uh, not conflict avoidant. Whereas women typically seek a consensus. Um, and, and you could like see why that is part of the design, right?

You, if you're a mom rearing a brood of children, right. You want everyone to get along. You want to be able to bring, to bring peace, um, and consensus to everything. Whereas men, right. They have to, they have to leave the home and fight and defend the family or, um, or lead in different ways and, and get in all sorts of conflicts.

And, and it's like, these are just obvious things that like a five-year-old intuitively understands, uh, because they're part of the created order that God's made. Uh, but our society, you know, builds up this superstructure, you know, this house of cards to try to, to try to make the world, not the way that God made it.

And, um, and all that accomplishes is just unrelenting misery for, for so many people. Um, and, and, and so anyway, um, you, you attack these things and people think that, that, yeah, that you're really bad.

You're a terrible, terrible person. Uh, and, and the reality is no, I actually, I want life to be good for, you know, for my wife and for my daughters, um, for, for everyone else's wives and daughters.

Uh, I want, I want, you know, things to be good for them. I want, um, I want to live in a world where like the average man can, can have, um, you know, a job, uh, can have employment that will be more than enough to provide for a family, right?

That's a world we, you know, we used to have, um, and, and we, we don't anymore. I mean, you look at it, it's like to live, I mean, especially now after five years of, of nonstop inflation, uh, you need to make like $150 ,000 to be able to be a, you have a stay at home mom.

It's like that. And, and like the median income for the country is under $75 ,000. It's, you know, we're, we're, we've structured our economy to be something that, um, that, uh, takes two and requires you to have two incomes to have a family.