October 31, 2025 Show with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III on “Protestant Traitors to the Reformation Heritage”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Reformation Day on this 31st day of October 2025.

Before I introduce to you my special guest to celebrate Reformation Day, I want to remind you folks, since we are beginning next week into—or actually, tomorrow, we are entering into the final two months of 2025, and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio really needs your financial support more than ever.

We've lost two of our largest advertisers, one of which I'm sure many of you are very familiar with, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CBBBS .com, who have been supporting this show ever since we relaunched Iron Sharpens Iron Radio after relocating from New York to Pennsylvania, since they are a local company—well, they were a local company here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And after 50 years of business, they permanently closed their doors several weeks ago. So we need that money replenished and replaced. And there are other—one other advertiser, major advertiser, dropped their sponsorship from us, and we have possibly one or two more right on the heels of that that may cancel.

So we really need your help. Please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click. Click to donate now, and you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card. But today I'm very excited to have one of my favorite guests of all time, and I know one of the favorite guests of many in our audience due to the public demand for his frequent return.

His name is Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and the author of the eight-volume commentary on the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity.

And it was interesting, I just met for the very first time a brother here in Pennsylvania named John, who was in attendance at a Bible conference at Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg. And he is now a regular monthly donor to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and he told me that he ordered that eight-volume commentary on the Westminster Larger Catechism as a result of hearing my guest, Dr. Joe Moorcraft, on the show.

But today we are going to be addressing Protestant traitors to the Reformation who claim to be its heirs. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my old and faithful friend, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III.

It's always enjoyable to have you on your program, Chris.

Amen. Well, I ditto that. And if you could, let our listeners know something about Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

Heritage Presbyterian Church is a small congregation in the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Hanover Presbytery. We are committed to the inerrancy of Scripture, the carrying out of the Great Commission, and the Westminster Confession of Faith and Larger Catechism fill out a basic doctrinal commitment.

We have people that come from various backgrounds, and watching God weave them into one is one of the most exciting things I've ever seen in my ministry before. We have a new thing now that I want to tell you about.

We have, I have box after box after box full of papers and articles and booklets and things that either have gone out of print or were never published. And so Kelly Ling, a woman in our church, is putting them all on PDF files.

And if you will go to Heritage Presbyterian Church, and there's a link that says free something, free stuff, free products, something like that.

Free resources. I see that right now.

Yeah. Free resources. That there's 50, 60, 70 things by me that are free for the taking. And that's just the beginning of what she's doing.

Praise God.

She's making great effort of cleaning up articles, publishing them, and she is making a great contribution to the extension of our ministry. So everything that's on that link is free for the taking.

Amen. And that website is HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, and remember to click on free resources. Well, Dr. Moorcraft, you and I both know that it is not necessarily always an easy thing if you just look at the name on a church sign or if you hear what a particular Christian, if you hear the way they identify themselves, they may identify themselves as a Reformed Protestant or a Presbyterian or in some other fashion.

It's not an easy thing anymore to immediately say, oh, that is a sound body of believers, a sound congregation, or a sound brother or sister in Christ because of the fact there are many who claim to be heirs of the Reformation who have really become traitors, and I know that sounds harsh to a lot of folks, but they have indeed become traitors to the main pillars of the Reformation.

And to give you one example, I know one way in which that has occurred in greater frequency in our day and age, you have more and more Reformed thinkers, Reformed pastors, Reformed seminary professors, Reformed authors who have become extremely ecumenical with the Church of Rome, and they, for some strange reason, even if they are brilliant at exegeting the Scriptures and can tell you exactly what the gospel is and what it means, many of these men seem to, for some bizarre reason, think that that issue is of lower importance than the doctrine of the Trinity and other things, which are very important issues.

But they do not, in my opinion, eclipse the gospel of Jesus Christ and make it an unnecessary aspect of the Christian life. But anyway, I'll let you pick up where I just left off, Dr. Morecraft, on the traitors to the Reformation.

Discernment and Naming False Teachers

It's such an important subject, and it is going to require great discernment of anybody today that wants to go to a Bible-believing, thoroughly Reformed, Orthodox Presbyterian church. Like you just said, to me, the name on the church may mean nothing.

And so, I would like to start back a long way before the men we're going to talk about. And by the way, the Bible does mention names. Paul mentioned names. Paul corrected Peter to his face, that it's not always pleasant, that it's never enjoyable.

To name names, but people will say to me, well, this guy says a lot of good things. He says bad things, but he says a lot of good things, too. And I tell them, that is the most dangerous kind of wolf there is.

A wolf in wolf garment is easy to spot. And you can avoid him, and you can know not to go there. But when the wolf is wearing sheep's clothing, and he says a lot of right things in the midst of his wrong things, he's the most dangerous, because you don't know when to trust him.

You have got to develop discernment to determine where you're going to take your family to church, or you will be negatively affected by them. I love the definition of Charles Spurgeon. I've used it many times on this show.

And that is, discernment is not the ability to distinguish right from wrong. It is the ability to distinguish right from almost right. And particularly, heads of families have got to know, like the sons of Isaac are, they've got to know their times, and they've got to know what to tell Israel to do.

That is, they've got to know the Bible. They've got to constantly speak the Bible into the culture they live in, which means they've got to know what's going on around them. They can't just watch baseball games or football games or basketball games.

They've got to read. They can't just stay on the couch and sleep, even though they've been hardworking throughout the day. They've got to read. They've got to learn what the Bible does teach. They've got to learn what we should expect from Reformed churches.

And we've got to learn the nature of the culture and the denominations that we live in today. All of this started with the mistakes the early church made. The things that are happening today, and I'm not so much talking about liberals, people that have denounced the answer to Scripture.

They are so eaten up with the apostasy. I'm not necessarily talking about those churches. Those will be easy to spot. I'm talking about the Evangelical churches and Reformed churches that have betrayed the faith, either intentionally or unintentionally.

And these churches today, as a result, they've lost the Reformation. The early church made some of the same mistakes that the Evangelical or Reformed churches make today, though for completely different motives and reasons.

When the last apostle died in the first century, the preachers had to depend upon themselves now for exposition. As long as apostles were alive, they could go to apostles and get the infallible Word of God and the interpretation of the Word of God straight from their mouths.

But now those Holy Ghosts and five apostles are gone, and they've got to interpret the Scripture correctly. And as a result, they made several doctrinal mistakes in the early church. In some ways, these, although I highly respect them, they were godly men, courageous men and women, being willing to be fed to the lions and give up faith.

But they were so anxious to spread the gospel in Rome, in a Roman Greek culture. They were so excited about it. They wanted everybody to know about Christ, and most of the stuff they got right. But sometimes they got wrong because they made this mistake.

They said, in effect, well, if we can put the gospel in Greek philosophical terms, maybe it will be easier for the Greeks to swallow and the Romans to swallow and become Christians. That was a deadly mistake.

That's like the camel sticking his head in the door of the tent, and then eventually the whole camel will come in. So the early church didn't betray the faith intentionally. They unknowingly betrayed the faith because of godly motives.

But today we have betrayers of the faith who are doing the same thing and were, but not for godly motives. I've often wondered why many scholars have refused to even believe biblical creationism, and why many, many evangelical and Reformed preachers refuse to believe in a younger view of the creation of the world.

And I think the reason is several. Number one, they want non-Christians to view them as intellectuals. They want to defend and propagate a reputation that would make the world of scholarship appreciate them and be thankful for them.

In other words, they were consumed with self-love, are consumed. For instance, today we have a phenomenon of celebrity preachers. And God is striking down celebrity preachers one after another by adultery, fraud, death.

Celebrity preachers will tell you they believe the Reformed faith. They believe in the historic doctrines of the church. But then they restate them in a way, whereas most people cannot see that they are restating these historical doctrines and saying something completely different.

Their primary concern in the pulpit, and I know a lot of these people, their basic concern in the pulpit is to maintain their celebrity status. Not to be faithful to the historical truth of God. There's one particular man in Atlanta who has two or three churches, tens of thousands of people in each church.

His father was an evangelical fundamentalist. This man's name is Andy Stanley. And he has, in my opinion, deliberately betrayed the faith. In fact, he says such things as this. If we're going to understand the gospel, we must unhitch ourselves from the Old Testament.

Or he'd say something like, if all you have as a basis for believing in the resurrection of Christ is the Bible, you don't have enough. And so he says, my faith in the resurrection does not depend upon the Bible.

So a lot of these people who come from evangelical backgrounds, they have a desire to be celebrities. They don't want to be ridiculed as ignorant fundamentalists. They want to have mega churches so that those churches can be written about in church magazines and religious magazines.

And so that the world can see what great preachers they are. Understand that the Bible, particularly Book of Jude and various other books of the Testament, do not speak of false doctrines kindly, false preachers.

They do not. Everything they say about them is negative. They say, well, at least they're effective preachers, or at least they believe some white things. The Bible doesn't do that. The Bible says, like for instance, in Philippians, if anybody comes to you preaching another gospel that I preach unto you, let him be damned.

And he says it twice in one sentence. And Paul said, I'm in prison. And I'm giving people suffering for Christ, and I'm giving people much more reason to be courageous. And those even who disagreed with my method are going to start believing the truth.

But the point is, he said, did not say those who believe another gospel are going to be courageous. Just different methods. And so there is only one gospel. And the gospel of a blended gospel, a synthetic gospel, has never saved anybody from hell.

The only gospel that saves anybody from hell is the pure, unadulterated, historical, orthodox gospel of the Bible.

Amen. And isn't it true that one clear proof of what you just said are the Judaizers? We don't know of any difference in theology that the Judaizers had with the Apostle Paul, other than they insisted that Gentiles become circumcised in order to become Christians.

That one thing compelled Paul to declare that it was a false gospel, which is no gospel at all, and that those who teach such a gospel are to be accursed.

Yes, sir. In fact, I think that the sin that has plagued the church the most and the longest is the seed of the false doctrine of synthesis, that is, blending Christianity with some other philosophy or worldview.

You can go all the way back in the Old Testament, when the children of Israel went into promised land, the first generation were godly, were faithful. The second generation intermarried with the Canaanites.

The third generation worshiped the gods of the Canaanites. You remember that golden calf that they had made in the wilderness when Moses was so long in the mountain receiving the Ten Commandments. What did they call that golden calf?

They called him Jehovah. They were trying to worship Jehovah by means of Egyptian religious practices. And in Old Testament Israel, when she became a nation, what was the big trouble all the time? The struggle was between the worship of Jehovah and Baalism, putting those two together throughout the history of the church.

And ever since the early church, people have tried to blend Christianity with humanistic philosophy all the way to this day. So that what modern evangelicals, they think they have the gospel. And some reformed people who are more simply evangelical than reformed, by evangelical, I don't mean evangelistic.

We ought to be evangelistic. I'm for evangelism. I practice evangelism. By God's grace, I've started several churches in my lifetime. So it's not evangelism. Evangelicalism is simply an attempt to understand the gospel without the distinctives of the reformed faith and of the product of reformation.

And so the thing we must be committed to is this gospel must be pure and unadulterated, or it will not save anybody from their sins. And what modern evangelicals think is the pure gospel is medieval scholasticism.

The gospel of most evangelicals today is the gospel of the Roman Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. And what did the gospel of the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages say? This was after Augustine.

Augustine lived in the 4th century, 5th century. And he led the early church back to the great doctrines of free grace, of sovereignty of God's grace, and the salvation of sinners. John Calvin said, simply, I'm an Augustinian.

Augustine spent so much time making sure the church would return to the great doctrines of grace, predestination, irresistible grace, limited atonement, total depravity, perseverance of the saints, all those things, that he didn't examine and evaluate the Roman Catholic view of the church and sacrament.

As Benjamin Warfield said one time, he spent so much time trying to get the gospel right that he was still Roman Catholic in his view of the church and the sacraments. But Warfield said, if Augustine had lived 10 more years, he would have had every doctrine straight, and he would have corrected his doctrine of the church and the sacraments.

So Augustine was a great influence on the church until about the 13th century. Thomas Aquinas, brilliant man, becomes a powerful influence on the church, disagreed with Augustine. Augustine said, the only way you could understand anything in life is by means of the word of God.

Thomas Aquinas said, there's a lot of things you have to take the Bible to understand, but you don't need the Bible to understand everything, because you can use proper use of reason, you can figure out things in life.

So the church started compromising its historical stand, and it developed the gospel something like this. Everybody has the ability to believe in Jesus whenever they take a notion to. They just need a little nudge by the Holy Spirit.

So when the Holy Spirit has nudged you and you receive Christ and you're born again, then you get the grace to earn the rest of your salvation. Now, modern evangelicals say this, and I want you here to listen carefully.

The compromised gospel today says this, you must believe in Jesus in order to be born again. I often ask people whether that's true or false. You must believe in Jesus in order to be born again. It's false.

How much believing can a dead man do? The Bible's doctrine, the doctrine of the historical reformed faith is, God must give you faith to believe in Jesus, and he gives you faith by the new birth. So you must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit in order to believe in Christ.

John 1 says, Jesus came into the world that he made, and they rejected him. He came into his own, and they rejected him. But there were many that received him and believed on his name. That's verse 12, paraphrased.

And verse 13 says, because the sentence goes on to verse 13, verse 12 says, Because as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe in his name, comma, who were born, not of the will, not of the flesh, not of blood, but who were born of God.

And that past tense, were born of God, puts it prior to the faith, because that's the cause of faith. And that is the cause of our receptive care. So evangelicals adopted a doctrine very similar to the medieval scholasticism, but also what they don't realize.

In 1690, the entire Reformed Church of Europe, except France, because the Roman Catholic government would not let the French Calvinists go. The Reformed Church in every country in Europe met at a place called Dort, 1690, in Holland.

And that was to evaluate the teachings of the followers of a man named Arminius.

In fact, could you pick up where you left off on Arminius when we come back from our first commercial break? Great. And if anybody wants to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight-volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight-volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com. For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world. Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Morecraft.

I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005. One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Morecraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Morecraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe Morecraft is the author of an eight-volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the Reformers, Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831. That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

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Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, this is Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Our guest for the day is Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III. And we are talking about Protestant traitors to the Reformation who claim to be its heirs.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We already have some people waiting to have their questions asked and answered. But I'm going to let Dr. Moorcraft pick up where he left off first when he started the discussion of Jacob Arminius. And by the way, I wanted to read the exact wording of that wonderful quote by B .B. Warfield that you were explaining earlier.

The exact quote is, The Reformation inwardly considered was the ultimate triumph of Augustine's doctrine of grace over Augustine's doctrine of the church. That was the exact quote, and I love that quote.

That's a great quote.

But you began to mention Jacob Arminius.

Jacob Arminius was a teacher at Geneva, and in public, he would pretend that he was Reformed. But in private, he would attack the basic Reformed truth and taught an entirely different system of doctrine, an entirely different understanding of the gospel.

So all of the Reformed churches of Europe met at Dors, Holland, at the Synod, meaning assembly, of Dors, 1619, to evaluate these doctrines. And they came to the conclusion the United Reformed churches of Europe condemned Arminius' doctrine and gospel as heresy.

And any of the preachers at that time that believed that doctrine, they expelled from the ministry. And in Holland, they may be doing a little fire, they expelled them from the citizenship. They deported them from Holland.

That's how terrible they thought Arminius' doctrines were. Most evangelicals today believe that Arminius' gospel, which took the Protestant Reformation, was condemned by the Reformed churches, and Lutheran churches would have done it too as well.

And they don't even know it. One of the things that the Roman Catholics did is give you an example of how those who don't believe the truth are deliberately meant to lead people, acting like they believe the truth but then teaching something that's contrary to it.

Michelangelo was a great medieval artist, of course. Everybody knows of him. And there's two things. Of all the various paintings and statues he did, there are two very important ones. One is the Virgin Mary nursing the baby Jesus.

So it's very explicit. The Virgin Mary is nursing the baby Jesus. But then when the people of that day saw the face of the Virgin Mary, they realized the model for that picture was the mistress of the king.

So that everybody was looking at the breast of the mistress of the king. He knew what he was doing when he did that. And then, of course, one of the greatest sculptures in all of history is David. I mean, it's majestic.

And so everybody thinks, and here you have King David. This is an example of how Michelangelo believed historical Christianity. The only problem is that the great statue, David, is uncircumcised. And I guarantee you that David, as the king of Israel, was out of the covenant in his own body.

So who is that statue? That statue is not King David. He was just using his name to make people think he was a Christian. That is man. In all of his glory and in all of his superiority, that's not David.

That is man, the measure of all things. So, I mean, most Christians would not even think about those things because the one that did it was a Christian. And throughout history, that's the way false teachers are.

They use the words of Paul and Romans. They are smooth talkers. They know how to use our words and change their meanings entirely. When the Pilgrims and the Puritans came to this country in the 1600s, these people were Calvinists.

They were children of the Reformation. But they had the mistake, I think, ignorantly. This book by Terry Elder called The Guise of Every Graceless Heart is about the demise of New England Puritanism. What happened to it?

It one time dominated all of New England. And then, as I said later, within several years, not that many years, about the 1830s, most of the great Puritan churches were gone in New England. And they were Unitarian churches.

And Unitarianism is humanistic. It believes that reason is the source of truth. There is no invaluable Bible. The Bible is not true. Man is not basically evil. He's basically good. And man can be perfectible by the state if the state has compulsory state education and socialism controlling all areas of society.

So they fell. And like the man said in that book, their Thomism ate up their Augustinianism. Well, that Thomism means you don't need the Bible to understand some things. You can understand it by reason.

Augustinianism said you need the Bible to understand anything. So, believing that there were some room for reason being the source of truth and a proper use of reason without the Bible being a source of truth, that eventually led to the demise of Puritanism.

Now, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but just to clarify, does not Romans 1 teach that even nature on its own gives man enough knowledge of God to leave him without excuse? It's not enough to bring him to salvation, but he is without excuse.

What it says is its effect on man is negative.

Right.

A man has no, he cannot find God by use of reason in nature. You cannot seek God or the Bible says there's none that seek that God, none but one. So that somebody that is hardened in his unbelief and his humanism is not going to seek God.

The nature, the revelation of God in nature is so clear and so inescapable that if anybody does not see the glory of God in every blade of grass, he is completely inexcusable. So God uses the revelation of himself in nature to hold a sinner inexcusable for his unbelief.

The law is written on our consciences so that our consciences condemn us when we do bad things and congratulates us when we do good things. But because of the effect of sin on our consciences, it's never proper to say, let conscience be your guide.

We must always let the word of God be our guide and make sure our consciences are cleansed by the blood of Christ and are educated by the Holy Spirit with the word of God.

So Jiminy Cricket was a heretic because he was the one that's saying, always let your conscience be your guide.

Yeah, right, right. And so in the South, as I said, Unitarianism did not make much of a headway. 1830s, there were only about eight Unitarian churches, as I said, and they were born bankrupt. And the reason it didn't make such an impact is because of the strong covenantal reform faith of the South.

But it took a war to break the back. So the Civil War, the war between the states, was a war fought by the power brokers of the North to break the back of the South's influence on federal government. And so that Unitarianism could control everything and thereby make man defectible.

Civil War was fought by the South to maintain that historical social and moral order. But the war between the states broke the back of that influence. Unitarianism began to dominate in the South, forced to falter by the bayonet.

And then by the end, by the first part of the 20th century, it started being adopted voluntarily and willingly in schools, in seminaries. Seminaries where the preachers were going to learn the truth, Columbia Seminary, Union Seminary, places like that.

But as we enter the 20th century, the seminaries and the universities put less and less emphasis on maintaining the truth and more and more emphasis on theological innovation and on making sure that the universities and the seminaries were known for intellectualism.

So they started adopting things like Darwinism and various other things. I went to Columbia Theological Seminary, which is one of the biggest, most prestigious, oldest seminaries of the Pentecostal Church in the United States of America.

Liberal. But at one time it was great. One time it had such people as James Henley Thornwell teach at it.

Oh, yeah. What a great man of God he was.

But not anymore. I had a systematic theology teacher.

You mean when you said not anymore, you meant the seminary, not J. H. Thornwell.

Right, right. I had a professor of systematic theology. I think he's dead now, but he took great pride in the fact that he had never read one book by Warfield.

Wow.

And he also said in my class, he said, I don't care what the Bible says, I want to know what God says. Now, that is an important sentence, as stupid as it sounds, because that's the heart of modern liberalism as it's trying to influence Christianity.

Karl Marx, a German theologian, Swiss German theologian, wrote a book on Romans in the early 20th century. That was a nuclear bomb. Our old 19th century liberalism that was pure rationalism was icy cold and was becoming weak.