Feeding 5000+ — Norman Meeten

So many people here tonight. Praise God, I hope you haven't just come to see me, although I'm delighted to see you. Bless the Lord. It seems a long time since I was last here. I was trying to work out how long ago.

Probably nearly two years. Eighteen months, two years ago. Praise the Lord. That's not deliberate, it's just how it is. I think I've been three or four times around the world since I last saw you. I'm so grateful to all of you who pray for me regularly.

I sometimes wonder how I can keep body and soul together, but one of the explanations is the undergirding of the Lord's people. It's not a one man business. It's a corporate involvement and commitment.

It's very wonderful how the Lord is increasingly opening doors of opportunity everywhere, to the point that it's impossible to meet all the requests and all the demands. I've just come from France. Marie Therese sends her love to those of you who know her.

I was there all last week for the conference in Dinon in Brittany, and there were three young couples there in particular. Monsieur and Madame Amber's daughter and son-in-law, whose little boy had a tumour in the hip, was given about 5 opportunity or possibility of recovering from, I think, about 18 hours of surgery.

He looks like a butcher's block. He's been talked about so much, but just recently they've removed all the plates, and he looks well and strong. Playing football has grown tremendously in the last year.

Unbelievable. And all of that has served to drive that young couple to the Lord in a way that they've never known before. Pierre said to me on Sunday, he said, Brother, until two years ago, I have to acknowledge that I had never been born again.

He said, brought up in an evangelical family, learned all the language, did all the right things, behaved in all the right sort of ways, but came to the realisation that when it came to a point of crisis, I didn't really know him.

He's a very, very clever young man, a research scientist. The tremendous brain in his head are sitting on his shoulders, but he realises that it's all absolutely useless in the face of that sort of extremity.

He's found God. And two other young couples, one his younger brother and his wife, wife only being the Lord for a couple of years, came up from Mulhouse on the Swiss border. They've sold everything, house, the lot, because they want everything that they are and everything that they've got to be the Lord.

I want you to come to England to learn English so that they can go to the Birmingham Church Workers' Programme next year. One of the qualifications is that you have to be able to speak English. They don't at this present moment, so we're trying to gear up a situation.

They've got one small baby, Timothy, absolute beauty, eight months old, but they're living in two rooms. They've sold everything so that all that they possess is available to the Lord to equip them for what he's got for them in the future.

And another young couple, an elder in a fellowship down there, that's going through great trauma because they've got all preoccupied with the demonic. There's a man called John down in Exeter. If you talk to him about the devil, he'd say, who's he?

Amen. He'd come to the Lord out of Christodelphianism. Lovely brother. This young man is an elder in that fellowship and finding it very difficult. And they said to me on Sunday, we've never in all of our lives imagined that the gospel could be what it is, not only spoken but lived.

In fact, Peter said to me, in fact, I was talking to him. I said, brother, do you know when I was a little boy, God told me that I could be just like Jesus. And I said, I was so scared to believe it that they didn't dare tell anyone what I thought, in case they thought that I was a heretic or a blasphemer.

Peter looked at me and he said, the Lord told me exactly the same thing when I was a lad. So if the gospel can't accomplish that in our lives, beloved, we might as well be Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims or join the Baha 'i or one of these outlandish systems of religion.

The gospel by the power of the Holy Ghost reproduced in you and me cannot bring into being the manifestation of Jesus in your life and my life. Then we're wasting our time. That is my conviction. Hallelujah.

And of course, it's not what you are, it's not what I am, it's what he is and what he's done. And by his Spirit has made unconditionally available unto every one of us. All that we have to do is believe him and trust him to outwork it in every part of our life.

Jesus was far more interested in living than ever he was in religion. Praise his name. He didn't say, I've come that you might have religion. I also say to people in here, I haven't come to change your religion.

I'm not interested in your religion. People who call themselves Christians on the basis of religion, beloved, are no better than the Hindu. The biggest enemy to the gospel in India is compromised Christianity.

People who call themselves Christians and live as if they were pagans. They're Christian in name, but never have been Christian in nature. Oh man, Jesus didn't come to give me religion. He said, I come that you might have life and life more abundantly.

And there are a few people, beloved, who know what it means to live. The majority exist. It's an endurance to which we work our way through day by day. Oh man, he's come to give us life. Wonderful. Are you alive?

Really alive? In the sense that the Lord intends us to be alive. Oh man, now I want to read to you a very, very familiar scripture tonight. It's in Mark's gospel, chapter 6. Now I could have read it in John's gospel, chapter 6.

Now that should indicate what I'm going to read. Because if you know what's in John's chapter 6, then you should know what is in Mark's chapter 6. I often ask people, what's in John chapter 1? What's in John chapter 2?

What's in John chapter 3? What's in John chapter 4? What's in John chapter 5? And so you can go on. I'll find out whether you read the Bible, or whether you just feed upon the crumbs the preacher gives you.

Because that's all he can give you, because time runs out on him. I can't remember when I last got through a sermon that I really wanted to preach. I generally just get lost, and then look at my watch and find it's time for everyone to go home, and I have to stop.

Amen. And I doubt if I could get much further than that tonight. But if I can only whet your appetite, create a thirst in you for God and his word, you can go home, beloved, and subject yourself to the same lovely teacher that I know, and he's promised to teach you all things and lead you into all truths.

You don't need any man to teach you. That's wonderful, isn't it? All that the preacher can do is articulate what you already know. And either you will say yes, or you will say no. I made reference to dear Hester Whitty a few weeks ago.

I think it may have been in the summer conference. I remember when she first heard Mr. North preach in Darjeeling, everything in her head said no. It said absolute violence for everything that she'd ever learned.

But something might be done in here to say yes, yes. And of course that's where the spiritual man thinks. As the man thinks it in his heart. So he is. It is the eggheads who have all the problems. Amen.

They're the sort of people who want to sit it all through their reason and rationalize God out of existence. And of course, if it doesn't add up to what they preconceived, they just dispense with it. You and I, beloved, have to come in absolute abandonment to him and open up our inward man and say, speak, Lord, for thy servant heareth.

And sometimes, beloved, he will say things to you that will revolutionize your whole life. A single word sometimes will upset your spiritual abacus. You won't know whether you're coming or going. Instead of being that ecstasy, beloved, you'll be brought to a place of absolute despair.

Of course, if you haven't come there, you haven't even begun. I don't know if you've ever despaired, really despaired. Glory to his name, of yourself I'm talking about. What's in John chapter 6? The bread of life, that's the best answer, brother.

The first part of the chapter is the illustration of that statement, and the latter part of the chapter is the exposition of it. Our brothers obviously found the key to the whole chapter. I am the bread of life, or I am that living bread.

The feeding of the five thousand, beloved, is the illustration, it's the picnic. Of course, we all love the illustration because we love picnics, don't we? And what a fantastic picnic it was. Five thousand men plus women and children.

There never was such a picnic. Praise God, and that's why everyone loves it. But it was only the illustration of the truth that Jesus was going to expound to them, of which he was the personification.

That's what John chapter 6 is all about, and that's what Mark chapter 6 is all about. Or a part of it, a second part of it, we've got another record of the story of the feeding of the five thousand. You do know that it's the only miracle that Jesus performed that is recorded in all four Gospels, and that should give you a clear indication that it's more than important.

Of course, added to that you've got the record of the feeding of the four thousand, which virtually deals with the same great spiritual principles. If you read something in the Bible once, beloved, it should be enough for you and me to respond to it and obey it implicitly without argument.

If you've still got an argumentative disposition in your heart, beloved, then you need God to deal with you very radically. It's enough for God to say something once, but when he gets on saying it, bless the Lord, why does he say it so many times, and why has he allowed scriptures like this to be recorded again and again?

Because John tells us at the end of these Gospels, if everything had been recorded that Jesus had said and done, there wouldn't be enough libraries in the world to contain the books. Why does he seemingly waste space repeating the same event again and again in the Scripture?

Why? Because it embodies, beloved, the very essence of the Gospels. And because in it we will find truth, beloved, that if we understand it by the Spirit, it will do more for us than we ever bargained.

It's not just a Sunday school story, it's not just a picnic, it's not something that happens once upon a time, hoping that we'll all be happy ever after. It may not be, beloved, unless you really give yourself to what it's all about.

I believe that in this lovely story of the feeding of the five dives, we have some of the most profound things that Jesus ever revealed, demonstrated, as well as taught, for you and I to understand. Amen.

Let's read Mark's edition of it then. I shall probably go into other versions of it before the evening's out, if we ever get there. But let's read. Verse 31,. And Jesus said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place to rest awhile.

For there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat. And they departed into a desert place by ship privately. And the people saw them departing, and many knew him, and ran afoot thither out of all cities, and out went them, and came together under him.

And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion towards them, because they were as sheep, not having a shepherd. And he began to teach them many things. And when the day was now past, then his disciples came unto him, and said, This is a desert place.

And now the time is far past. Send them away, that they may go into the country round about into the villages, and buy themselves bread. For they had nothing to eat. Jesus answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat.

And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred penny worth of bread, and give them to eat? He says unto him, How many loaves have ye? Go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five and two fishes.

And he commands them to make all sit down by company upon the grass. And they sat down in ranks by hundreds and by fifties. Nice and tidy, isn't it? That accommodates me. I'm a tidy person. And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and break the loaves, and gave them to the disciples to sit before them, and two fishes divided he among them all.

And they did all drink, and were filled. And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments of the fishes, and they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men. Amen. Now, if you were following me carefully, you would discover, beloved, that in the early part of the reading, there was a statement that appears three times.

I hope you concentrate. Again, repetition. You read the writings of the Apostle Peter, he never apologized over repetition, except saying, Remember, remember, remember. Of course, he hadn't learned the song which was related to the Wombles.

Remember, remember, remember. The Hebrew Epistle warns us, doesn't it, about letting the thing run out of a leaky vessel, letting the great gospel of God's salvation run out of a leaky vessel. Here's the statement, verse thirty-one, a desert place.

Verse thirty-two, a desert place. Verse thirty-five, this is a desert place. Hmm. Has that verbalized, beloved, things that you have known and experienced? Has that described your present state and condition?

It's a desert place, barren, dry, seemingly lifeless, hopeless, desolate, a desert place. You know, so often you and I associate the desert with things that are negative. That's because we've been preconditioned by reading the book of Exodus.

Hmm. Because they spent forty years in the desert because of their waywardness, their sinfulness, their unbelief, their rebellion. They didn't need to live in the desert for forty years. It's been estimated, beloved, they could have got from Egypt to the land of promise in eleven days.

They wouldn't have had to hung around very much, but they could have done it. But they didn't, because they didn't believe God, and therefore they tromped around in the wilderness year in and year out.

But even that desert, beloved, which was so barren, which was an experience which was a result of their sin and their waywardness, has tremendous a blessing associated with it. Manifestations and demonstrations of God's power and God's grace and God's love and God's mercy and God's forgiveness and God's care of going before them and following after them.

Hallelujah, he said them, did he not? Turn into Psalm seventy-eight for a moment. Psalm seventy-eight where the psalmist is reiterating these phenomenal experiences. Let's just read a bit. It says in verse eleven, they forgot his works and his wonders that he could show them.

Marvellous things did he in the sight of their fathers in the land of Egypt and in the field of Zoan. He divided the sea and caused them to pass through. He made the waters to stand as in heat birth. In the daytime also he lit them with a cloud and all night with the light of fire.

He clad the rock in the wilderness and gave them drink as out of the great depths. He brought streams also out of the rock and caused waters to run down like rivers and they sinned yet more against him by provoking the most high in the wilderness and they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.

Yea, they spake against God and said can God furnish a table in the wilderness? Behold he smoked the rock and the waters gushed out and streams overflowed. Can he give bread also? Can he provide flesh for his people?

Therefore the Lord heard this and was wroth as so a fire was kindled against Jacob and anger also came up against Israel. But they believed not God and trusted not in his salvation though he had commanded the cloud from above and opened the doors of heaven and had rained down manna upon them to eat and had given them the corn of heaven.

Man did eat angels food he sent them meat to the full and he caused the east wind to blow in the heavens and by his power he brought in the south wind and rained flesh also upon them as dust and feathered clouds like as the sand of the sea and he let it fall in the midst of their camp round about their habitation.

So they did eat and were all well filled and he gave them their own desire and so it was on and on and on and on. Barrenness, emptiness, rebellion contrasted beloved with God's extravagance, largeness of heart.

He opened heaven and rained it upon them. Blessed be his name. It wasn't all negative. Negative from man's point of view but from God's point of view. Blessed be his name. What a difference. Look at another scripture in the Old Testament.

Jeremiah, the wonderful chapter. What chapter is that? Now all you agitated people be quiet now. What is the most wonderful chapter in the prophecy of Isaiah? Huh? 31. That's right my brother it contains the finest definition of the new covenant in the Old Testament that you will ever read anywhere but look how it opens up chapter 31.

At the same time saith the Lord will I be the God of all the families of Israel and they shall be my people. Thus saith the Lord. The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness even Israel.

When I went to call it into rest the Lord hath appeared of old saying unto me yea I have loved thee with an everlasting love and with loving kindness have I drawn thee. Again I will build thee and thou shalt be built O virgin of Israel.

Thou shalt again be adorned with thy temperament and shalt go forth in the dance of them that make Mary. Found grace in the wilderness. I have loved thee with an everlasting love and with loving kindness have I drawn thee.

Look at another scripture Isaiah 35. Often say this is one of my favorite chapters in the Old Testament that I had to lose all the Bible. I'd be very happy with Isaiah chapter 5 for it embodies all the truth of the gospel.

I could preach to you for a few hours on it. It's wonderful. Look at how it opens up the wilderness. In the solitary place shall be glad for them and the desert shall blossom. Rejoice and blossom as a rose.

It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice even with joy in singing. The glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it and the excellence of Carmel and Sheol. They shall see the glory of the Lord and the excellency of our God.

Verse 6. Then shall the lame leap as an heart and the tongue of the dumb sing for in the wilderness shall waters break out and streams in the desert and the parched ground shall become a pool and the thirsty land springs of water.

In the habitation of dragons or jackals where each lay shall be grass with reeds and rushes. Oh the magnificence of it. The wilderness beloved is not just a place of baroness, a den. It's a place with life and with blessings for those who've got eyes to see.

Glory to his name. Of course this great prophetic utterance of Isaiah has a wonderful fulfillment in the New Testament. Turn with me into the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 8. You know what? You know I say Acts chapter 8 don't you?

Come on, tell me before you peep. Acts chapter 8. What's Acts chapter 8 all about? Huh? No, it's not about Saul. He's here for Eunice, that's right. Amen. He was the one who went down into Samaria. There was a desert for a man to go through beloved.

In the realm of the spirit it was Samaria. It was the most alien, unfriendly place for any Jew ever to go. We see that illustrated by Jesus, don't we? But Jesus didn't hold them at arm's length. Although there was a time recorded in Scripture when Jesus needed a bed for the night, they wouldn't give him a house for him.

The disciples said well why don't you do what the prophet did of old, pour down fire upon them. Now they've got their right chapter, they've got their right verse, they've got their right prophet. They were evangelical.

They might have even claimed to be charismatic or Pentecostal. They got it all right. You would have thought that Jesus would have rebuked the Samaritans for their lack of hospitality because the Scripture bids us to be hospitable.

But he didn't, he rebuked the disciples. No, this is God's all right. He says you don't know what spirit you are of. I didn't come to destroy, I came to save. There was nothing anti or malicious or bitter in the heart of Jesus, even when the Scripture talked about God being angry about it.

You mustn't interpret it in the way that you know anger. The anger of God was motivated by the love of God. There was nothing malicious in it. Nothing at all. Glory to his name. It had lying behind it like man's highest good.

That's why he's spoken of as our chastiser in the Hebrew epistle. It's because he loves us, because he's our father and he won't allow us to go on in our delinquency and our waywardness. He will take us to task and chastise us because he loves us and if he didn't love us we'd be bastards.

That's what the Scripture says. Jesus loved the Samaritans as much as he loved the Jews. There wasn't an atom of nationalism in him. Glory to his name. That's why you can read John chapter 4. You know what John chapter 4 is all about, don't you?

He had a wonderful encounter of Jesus with the woman at the well, Samaria. There was a derelict that she was. If you think that you've got problems, you meditate upon John chapter 4 for a little while and work out how long the conversation took between Jesus and the woman before she was totally and completely emancipated, both from her sin and all the demons that had riddled her and ruined her.

I was recently in the Cameroons and I was talking to a dear woman. If you think you've got problems, listen to this little bit. Amen. She was going for the meal. She told me that she got 299 brothers and sisters.

Her father had 41. She was a king. If you've heard some of the horrific things that she had to go through, beloved, look at her and you wonder how she was saved. Glory be to God. Every time I find myself in the desert in the Scripture, beloved, I become aware of the grace and the mercy and the goodness and the love and the generosity and the largeness of God's heart towards me.

And here we find in Acts chapter 8, beloved, Philip, the evangelist, commissioned of God to go and preach the gospel in Samaria. And what an amazing evangelistic campaign it was. Devils were cast out, people were healed, folks responded to the Lord and were baptized.

It was phenomenal. Amen. Then God came and spoke to Philip. He said, go to the desert, God has a strange command. He was a successful evangelist. He could have argued for that a bit. They needed him there.

They needed to be built up. They needed to get it all organized. Of course, modern evangelists and devils would put up a skyscraper and let all private. No, they wouldn't have filing systems. They'd have computers.

Things would be computerized. Everyone would be in the box full of a jog and tickle. Everything would have been regulated. It would take ages. You know, I rang up to get a plane confirmed this morning.

I could hear this same on the end of the phone with her computer. It took her longer than I've ever to find out whether my ticket was confirmed by computer than it would if she turned over a page and looked in the book.

Like when I went to the bank the other day. I wanted a hundred francs change, ten francs for the pound. She did it on her calculator and her friend came and checked it and they were both wrong. To their own disadvantage.

I'd done it, beloved, in my head and I'm not a mathematician. I'd done it in my head before they'd even begun. But they needed a computer, because they can't count anymore. Now, I've got to be in my bonnets about computers.

You'll have to forgive me. Bless the Lord. But dear old Philip, beloved, if you read this lovely scripture in Acts chapter eight, you won't find him arguing at all with God. He didn't say, Lord, they need me.

Lord, you've called him to be an evangelist. Why are we going to evangelize in the desert? Cactus. Bandits perhaps. Not much else. Lots of sand. All the scripture says is that when God spoke into him, he went.

Like Abraham. That's a good example in the Old Testament when God told him to go and sacrifice Isaac and he didn't argue about it. He just went. You see, that's the disposition that God's looking for in you and me.

And that's why most of us never get anywhere. Because we keep on arguing the truth. We try to work it all out. We rationalize it. We find a reasonable explanation. But there isn't one. God will decide again and again.

There isn't a reasonable, rational explanation for the things that God has told you to do. If you think that there is, brother, you've never heard God really speak to you. Not that God's irrational. The most rational being that ever was and ever will be.

Amen. But man's thoughts aren't God's thoughts, and God's thoughts aren't man's thoughts, says the Lord. I'm so glad, brother, that we can't reduce part of the limitations of our intellect or some of us will be in a pitiful state.

Because we were amongst the missing when the brains were given out. I was anyway. I got three O-levels and I only got those after I left school. All my boys are far more educated than I am. But the struggle that was, too.

So glad the Holy Ghost came. He promised to teach me all things and lead me in all truth. And that set me free from my sense of inferiority. Because I hadn't made the grade when I was at school. Didn't get to university.

Oh, I was ambitious. I. But you hear the simplicity of Philip the Loved One, that he simply went. Let me ask you, brother, have you done the last thing that God told you to do? Or are you still arguing about it, trying to work it out?

See whether it fits in with your preconceived ideas, or whether you're going to be careful. I won't tell you, but you won't, unless you go in the power of God's Word. You're fast before you start. Lots of people have problems over guidance.

Guidance isn't a problem. The simple answer to guidance is do the next thing he tells you to do. It's one step in front of the other. My Word is a lamp under your feet and a light under your path. And all that you need is enough light to show you the next step.

And then the preacher says you will never fall. He says you will never stumble. The Lord is in his name. It's as simple as ABC. Why do preachers make it so complicated and difficult? I remember my dear dad, the last thing I ever said to him.

I preached in our house, the first and last time I ever met my dad alive. I remember what I said. I preached on that lovely scripture, vessels unto honour meet for the Master's use. I went through the lovely truths related to the fact that you and I have been created to be vessels, to contain a treasure, clay pots for scripture courses, made from dust and to dust we will return.

I remember my dad's camera coming into the office. He recorded it. He wasn't very clever with these thing called recorders. They were new inventions in those days. And he'd forgotten to turn the volume up, so it was all a whisper.

My mum told me she'd talked to him a number of times after that, with him on the floor, with his ears blue, listening to this again and again. And he said to me, he said, boy. And I always knew I was in his good books when he called me boy.

When he called me Norman, I knew I was in trouble. He called me Joe, which was my family name. And I had a coat of many colours when I was a boy. Perhaps that was prophetic too. Hmm. Sent from America during the war, from a city called Washington.

And I lived in a village called Washington down in the south of England. And that's how I got a coat of many colours. Every colour of the rainbow. Of course, only one that was somewhat as bold, as brash as I am.

Artist. You see, would have worn those exhausted garments if I did. I loved it. Loved it. Amen. But my dad said to me, he said, boy, why has no one ever told me that it was so simple? Spoke to me. Those were the last words that I ever heard my dad speak to me.

Boy, why has no one ever told me that it was so simple? God spoke to Philip, and the scriptures simply said, he went. Now, we're not told how long he was out there in the desert. Could have been days, could have been weeks, could have been months, could have been years.

We're not told. And don't allow your quizzy minds to try and work it all out. We're just told that he went and he waited, out there in the desert. And in the fullness of time, beloved, away over on the horizon, there appeared a cloud of dust.

Now, you and I know what the cloud of dust was all about, but he didn't. You and I know that it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Queen Hendersey of Ethiopia, who'd been up to Jerusalem on business for his monarch.

On his way home, sitting up in his chariot, reading a little tourist picture that he'd bought, which will give an indication of how wealthy he was in his own right. He bought a copy of the book of the Prophet Isaiah.

It would have cost him a small fortune. Many a synagogue wouldn't even afford it. And there he was, perched up in his chariot. And as the cloud of dust came towards the evangelist sitting out there in the desert, the Spirit of God, ah, no, before that, he saw, beloved, that this was a man of some tremendous importance.

Riding, because he wasn't alone, he would have been accompanied by an armed guard, because it wasn't the safest sort of territory for which to ride, even in the East Day. But then he heard the Spirit of God speak to him again.

And the Spirit said, Go and join thyself to that chariot. Madness! A man, wild-looking man, rushing through the desert, that either had been mad or abandoned. And on the man in the chariot, Henderson, was worried, raised his finger, and he would have been shot down, dead.

He never entered into Philip's mind, beloved. He didn't worry about being shot down, because he was already dead. Amen, that's the explanation, beloved, for his childlike obedience. He died to all his own opinions, died to all his own ideas, died to all his own security and safety.

All that he was concerned about, beloved, was obeying God and doing what God told him to do. And the Scripture says he ran. He ran to do the will of God. He didn't need some poor type of missionary home from the field to preach a few missionary sermons to try and ginger him up, beloved, to get some vision, to go out and do a little bit of work for God.

He was gone like a shot out of a gun. And he came alongside the chariot, glory be to God. And he heard the man reading. He was led as a lamb, done before he shearers. So he opened not his mouth in his humiliation.

His judgment was taken away. Who shall declare his generation? Amen. Do you know where he was reading from? Yes, you ought to know, you're 18. He told me from the beginning of his career. Glory be to God.

She told me she's one month older than Mr. North. He's gone as fit as a fiddle. Isn't that wonderful? That's God's goodness. Isaiah, he said, do you know what you're reading? And the man in the chariot said, how can I?

So the man speaking himself or some other. Without a word of invitation, Philip was up in the chariot, perched down beside the Ethiopian eunuch. Beginning at the same scripture, he preached unto him, Jesus.

There's a simple principle of evangelism, beloved. Begin where people are. Someone once said her name was, I can't remember her name now, she was the founder of a community, a missionary community down in Sussex called St. Julian's.

What was her name now? Florence Alshon. That's right, I read her biography, must have been at least 30, 35, 40 years ago. Getting on. I'm running 60, that's what they say in India, running 60. In other words, I'll be 60 my next birthday.

Hmm. Hallelujah. She said, so often we try to take people from where they are not to where they don't want to go. Let me say that to you as you go. So often we try to take people from where they are not to where they don't want to go.