The Life Jesus Lived — Zac Poonen

The Exchange of Adam’s Life for God’s Indestructible Life

There is a destructible life that we have all received from Adam, and if we see that it's destructible and we are willing to lay it down, then God gives us his indestructible life. There is an exchange that the Lord invites us to.

And I believe the greatest foolishness of man, of believers, is they're not willing to make that exchange. It's just like the foolishness of all humanity in not receiving the free forgiveness in Christ.

I just can't understand why. In many cases I'd say they don't know. They are ignorant. But what shall we say about believers who say they know Christ and still hold on to the life of Adam? If we can only see that the cause of all our problems is the life of Adam we still cling on to.

That's the reason why we don't have more of this indestructible life. In the New Testament we read certain expressions which are never found in the Old Testament. You know the Old Testament is only a shadow.

The Bible says the reality is in Christ. Let me show you that verse in Colossians chapter 2. It speaks about all those laws in the Old Testament concerning verse 16 and 17. Colossians 2 verse 16 and 17 there were laws concerning food and drink and festivals and new moons and sabbaths.

Everything was a shadow. But it says the reality is in Christ. And when we have found that reality in Christ we don't need the shadows anymore. We don't need laws and rules. Take the Sabbath for example which is mentioned here in verse 16.

It says don't let anyone judge you concerning the Sabbath because it is only a shadow. There are Christians today who feel they must keep one day and seven for the Lord. Well I don't judge them. But you know the Sabbath was a day.

The Sabbath as a Shadow of New-Covenant Life

Let me just show you. I'll give you one example of how people live in the Old Testament. In Isaiah chapter 58 it describes what the Sabbath is. Isaiah 58 and then you'll see how wrong it is. The understanding of Sabbath a lot of people have.

Isaiah 58 and verse 13. If this is an Old Testament commandment remember Isaiah speaking to Jews who were commanded by God to keep the Sabbath. If because of the Sabbath you turn your foot from doing your pleasure or what pleases you on my holy day.

The Sabbath God called it my holy day. And in that one day I want you to turn away from doing what you feel like doing. What pleases you. And call the Sabbath that one day and seven. Call it a delight.

Call it the holy day of the Lord honorable. And again don't do your own ways. And don't seek your own pleasure. And don't speak your own word. Then you will take delight in the Lord. What is the difference in the New Covenant?

In the New Covenant every day is a Sabbath. That's the difference. There it was only one day because man couldn't bear more than that. It was like a shadow of the reality that was to come. There one day let me read now in verse 13 how it should be in the New Covenant.

If every day of your life you don't do your own pleasure. Every day you call a holy day for the Lord. And every day you don't do your own ways. Every day you don't seek your own pleasure. And every single day of your life you never speak your own words.

But what the Lord wants you to speak. Then you will delight in the Lord. That is the essential difference between a shadow and the reality. That which is only one day and seven. Now we have the tremendous possibility of seven days and seven.

But do you know what the Jews said about the Sabbath? They called the Sabbath a burden. Oh one day and seven we can't do what we want. We can't light a fire. We can't do anything at home. It was a burden.

So when you tell Christians today that seven days a week you don't do your own will. They say boy what a burdensome life that will be. You mean I can never do what I want to do? Not even one day? This is the folly of Christians who say they have seen Christ.

They haven't seen Christ at all. If you have really seen the glory of the life of Jesus. You will see that that indestructible life. It was indestructible because he never did his own will. That's why it was indestructible.

Adam's life is destructible because we seek our own pleasure. We speak what we feel like speaking. We do what we feel like doing. We seek our own. That's a destructible life. And I'd say most Christians have chosen that.

When the Lord offers them this indestructible life they call it a burden. Just like the Old Testament Israelites called the Sabbath a burden. Take the matter of tithing. That's a very popular teaching.

A lot of preachers today. It's just a way for covetous preachers to make money. Their favorite verse is bring the tithes into the storehouse. Lest God curse you with a curse. There's tremendous amount of deception here too.

It was a shadow. Like the Sabbath one day in seven belonged to the Lord. And now in the New Covenant all seven days belong to the Lord. Every day is a Sabbath. Every day is a holy day. And every day I don't do my will.

In the same way God said in the Old Testament. When you reap your crops show your gratitude by giving 10 of your crops. Just by the way in case you didn't know. The tithe in the Old Testament was never money.

It was crops. It was an expression of gratitude to God. That he'd given them such a wonderful harvest. They were expressing their thankfulness. And in the New Testament it's not 10%. If one day in seven was the Lord's in the Old Covenant.

And seven days in seven belongs to the Lord in the New Covenant. How shall we deal with money and material things? That's why you never find a single commandment in the New Testament. Which says the tithe belongs to the Lord.

Never. I know there are people who preach it. I'll tell you why. Because 99 of believers live under the Old Covenant. Then of course they have to preach the tithe. They have to keep one day in the week holy.

Because they don't want to live the rest of the days holy. They keep at least one day holy. I'm absolutely convinced that 99 of believers live under the Old Covenant. And that's why tithe is a big thing for them.

You know what is the standard in the New Covenant? In Luke chapter 14 it says, verse 33. Luke 14, 33. No one can be my disciple who doesn't give up all his possessions. It's not 10%. It's exactly like the Sabbath.

One day in seven, now it's seven days in seven. In the Old Covenant the Lord said 10 is mine, 90 is yours. Do you know where that is found? Old Covenant. You'll never find it in the New Covenant. You'll never find a teaching in the New Covenant that one day in seven belongs to the Lord.

And you'll never find a teaching in the New Covenant that 10 belongs to the Lord and 90 is yours. How is it that multi, millions and millions of Christians have swallowed this lie? Shall I tell you why?

Having tasted the new wine, like Jesus said, they say the old is better. And that's why they live defeated lives. That's why their home lives are so miserable. In the Old Covenant, you know, they used to come together on one day a week.

I'll come to this in a moment. They used to come together once a week. On the Sabbath day in the temple, they'd clap, they'd sing, they'd blow trumpets and all types of things. And they'd have a wonderful time.

And then they'd go back to their miserable, defeated life for six days of the week. And they'd look forward to the Sabbath. When they could praise the Lord again. It didn't solve any of their problems.

It didn't solve their problems in their family life. It didn't solve their problems in their personal life. It didn't solve any of their problems. But they'd come together on the Sabbath day and have a wonderful time together.

You know, that's what a lot of Christians do on Sunday mornings. They come together and they praise the Lord and they have a wonderful time. Or it could be a conference, a weekend conference, once or twice a year.

They come together and say, boy, this is wonderful. When they go back home, it doesn't solve any of their problems. They live the same old defeated lives till they wait for the next conference. This is like people going to a bar to drink.

Here's a man who's got a problem. Serious problems in his home and everything else. And he goes to drink in the bar with his friends. And he's so happy. He's in the third heaven in his own understanding.

He's so happy. He's with his friends. And he's forgot all his problems. And he goes back home. None of his problems were solved. And what's he longing for? He's longing to come back to the bar with his friends.

Many Christians, Sunday is their praising bar. When they come together to praise and they say it's wonderful, the Lord, and I'm looking forward to have a time of praise with my friends. They go back to the same old defeated lives.

That's not Christianity. That was Old Testament experience. And that's not how we're supposed to live. That's not the part of an indestructible life. But I pretend to have something indestructible for a few hours on Sunday and live the same old destructible life the rest of the week.

Total Surrender of Possessions and Self

So here in Luke 14 .33, what does Jesus mean when he says, if you want to be my disciple, you've got to give up all your possessions. And you know all these people who major on saying it's only the King James Version.

You can take whatever version you like. It says the same thing. You can't escape by saying King James Version. And it says in the King James Version too. No type. It's got to give up all your possessions.

Possessions are what we possess. And the Lord is saying, if you want to be my disciple, you can no longer possess anything. You can't hold on tightly to material things. You can have them, but you can't possess them.

You got to hold everything on earth with an open palm. And the best example of that would be Abraham. Isaac was the darling of his heart. He possessed him. And when he possessed him, God said, give him up.

Abraham was called a friend of God. He took Isaac. It wasn't a tithe he gave to God. No tithe. He gave everything when he laid Isaac on the altar. And he really thought, Isaac is going to be killed. And God gave him back.

And from that day, Abraham did not possess Isaac. He had him. Isaac still lived in his house. But he no longer possessed him as his own. That is the type of transaction that has to take place in all of our lives.

Whenever in our relationship to material things. I have to give up all that I possess. And hold everything as what God has given me to have. If he takes it away, that's fine. If he asks me to give up something, that's fine.

And I will have no complaint if he takes it away. And I'll have no reluctance to give something if he asks me to give it away. Because I no longer possess it. I no longer hold it as mine. I hold it as a steward.

Not 10%. 100%. If I have a house, it's not 10 of that house that belongs to God. The whole house belongs to God. And say, Lord, it's yours. You can use it exactly as you like. I remember once in a church building in Bangalore.

There were certain tasks to be done by different people who had volunteered to do certain tasks. To maintain the place, clean the floor and clean the restrooms and all that. And some of them didn't turn up to do it.

And I found, this is many years ago. And I found in my heart a spirit of complaining against them. Why do they say that they will come and do it and don't do it? And the Lord said to me, do you treat my house as your house?

When you're a co-worker with me, there's no such thing as my house and your house. It's our house. And I realized that day that that building, which we call a church building, was my house. And if I could clean the restrooms and toilets in my house, I could do it in the church too.

And the picture the Lord gave me was, supposing there was some kind brother or sister who would come to the house I was living in. And would everyday come to clean it and clean the toilets and all. I mean, he doesn't have to do it.

Just does it out of graciousness and love. And one day if he doesn't come, would I have a complaint? No. I say, I'm thankful that he came so many days. And the Lord said, you shouldn't have a complaint if people don't come to the church building either.

That's my house. That's your house. And if somebody doesn't come, you do it yourself. So I've gone to clean the toilets myself, the restroom myself. Because it's my house. There is no difference between me and the Lord, you know.

It's the same with money. We have a joint account with Jesus Christ. My money is His money. His money is mine. It's one with Him. I don't hold something as my own. And I want to say this, my brothers and sisters.

This is one of the main reasons why many Christians do not come into this abundant life. This life of consistent Christianity where seven days a week your Christianity is the same. Where Sunday morning you're not specially holy any more than you're on Monday afternoon or Tuesday evening.

It's always the same because you don't consider something as the Lord's and something as yours. That was in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament it was like, paying tithe was like paying the income tax.

How many of you believe that you should give 100 of what you earn to the IRS? Nobody is so crazy. I mean IRS, you give, how much do you give? The minimum necessary. Do you know that a lot of Christians, their attitude to God is the same?

What is the minimum I have to give to God? You're treating God like the IRS. No wonder your relationship is so pathetic. Imagine if a wife told her husband, I'll give you 10 of my life. One day in seven I'll live with you.

Six days I'll do my own thing. Do you think you're gonna have a happy marriage? No wonder so many Christians have such a pathetic marriage relationship with Christ. It's one day in seven. It's 10 of their income.

It's all, they don't have a marital relationship with Christ. And I wanna tell you brothers and sisters, if you have this master-servant relationship, you will never ever ever ever come into this indestructible life.

I wanna tell you. You got to change that relationship with Jesus Christ and say, Lord, you're my husband. I'm married to you. I have a joint account with you. Everything I have is yours. Seven days out of seven, I'm your bride.

Every day I'm available to you. I'm submitting to you. I'm not living like the Old Testament. One day in seven and one-tenth of my income. I'm finished with that. I'm not paying income tax to God. He's my husband.

He's my bridegroom. When we come into that type of relationship, then we experience these wonderful things that the New Testament speaks about, which are never found in the Old Testament. I'll give you an example.

Rejoicing, Thanksgiving, and Victory in the New Covenant

Jesus said, let me first turn to Philippians 4. Verses, I'll show you some verses which are never found in the Old Testament. Never. Philippians 4, verse 4. Rejoice in the Lord always. You'll never find that in the Old Testament because they didn't have a marital relationship with God.

How can you rejoice in the Lord always? When you pay income tax to God and treat God like the IRS. Impossible. Rejoice in the Lord always. Rejoice in the IRS always. It's impossible. Rejoice in a demanding master always.

But a husband and wife who really love one another, they can rejoice in one another always. Rejoice in the Lord always, 24 -7. Verse 6, be anxious for nothing. Nothing means zero. These verses are just not found in the Old Testament.

1 Thessalonians 5. And verse 18. 1 Thessalonians 5, verse 18. In everything, give thanks. Nothing is excluded. In every single thing, give thanks because this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. I'm just trying to describe this indestructible life for you, which is never found in the Old Testament.

Everything, give thanks. Rejoice 24 -7. Be anxious for nothing. Let me show you another verse. Ephesians 5, verse 20. Ephesians 5, verse 20. Always giving thanks for all things. Always giving thanks for all things.

This is one of the marks of being filled with the Holy Spirit, described in verse 18. When I'm really filled with the Holy Spirit and I have this indestructible life, I always... You know, these words like always, everything, all things is never found in the Old Testament.

In the Old Testament, it is one day in seven, 10 of your income, your firstborn son. Forget about your daughters. Forget all your other sons. Your firstborn son. But today the Lord says, all your children are mine.

All your sons, all your daughters. Everything that was percentage in the Old Testament becomes total in the New Covenant. And if you still live by percentages and deal with God like you deal with the IRS, you will never, never come to this indestructible life.

It's got to be total. Forsake all that you have. Give thanks in everything. Always give thanks. Rejoice always. And see what it says in Luke 18 and verse 1. Men should pray always. How often are we to pray?

Always. Now, you know, you can read these verses and say, well, it doesn't really mean that. You know, you think Jesus didn't mean what he said? You think he didn't know language properly? When he said men should pray at all times?

He doesn't mean that we got to be on our knees all the time. Or in the physical position of prayer. But in a spirit of prayer. All the time. In a spirit of humble dependence upon God. For that is what prayer really means.

Lord, I need your help all the time. All the time. That humble dependence upon God. Let me show you another verse. These are verses never found in the Old Testament. 2nd Corinthians in chapter 2. And verse 14.

2nd Corinthians 2, 14. Thanks be to God who always leads us in his triumph in Christ. How often did God lead Paul in victory? Always. Not once in a while. You give 10 to God, you'll get victory 10 of the time.

You give 1 day in 7 to God, you'll get victory 1 day in 7. But when you give everything, when your surrender is total, all these words like always rejoice and always pray and always victory become true.

So you see the reason why many Christians don't experience these things is because their surrender to God is not total. They haven't completely given up that destructible life of Adam. There's something they hold on to.

And the Bible speaks about brokenness. The broken spirit. A spirit that's where my will has been broken by God. Where I don't want to do my own will. It says here, he leads us always in his triumph. And thus he manifests the aroma of Christ in every place.

A Clear Conscience and Immediate Reconciliation

Let me show you another verse. 1 Corinthians in chapter 4. 1 Corinthians chapter 4. In verse 4. I'm describing this indestructible life which a man like Paul came to. These are the verses that challenged me.

And I realized when I read these verses that I was not living the type of life the apostles lived. 1 Corinthians 4, 4. I am conscious of nothing against myself. How many of us can say today, I'm conscious of nothing against myself.

How many of us can say that every single day of our life. I am conscious of nothing against myself. People would think you're arrogant if you said it. Why do they think that? Because they themselves are living third rate, defeated Christian lives.

And they think that is the normal Christian life. And they think anybody who says something like this must be arrogant. He's not arrogant. He's just describing the normal Christian life. And showing us that whatever you call Christianity is totally substandard.

I thank God the day I discovered that. That all the Christianity I saw around me and written in all the books was all substandard. Here in the Bible I saw what the real normal Christian life was. And it gave me such a hunger.

I said Lord, I've got only one life to live. And I don't want to live that substandard type of Christian life just because all the other Christians around me are living like that. They can live like that if they want.

I can't change them. But I'm determined to change myself. And one of my favorite verses was let God be true and every man a liar. I know nothing against myself. But he says at the same time 1 Corinthians 4 verse 4 that doesn't mean I'm acquitted.

He says because the Lord examines me he says there are things in my life which I don't see. Unconscious areas where I'm not Christ like. But in my conscious area I'm my conscience is absolutely clear.

Look what Paul says in Acts 24 and verse 16. Always I would encourage you sometime do what I did. Take a concordance and look at the word always. And see where all it comes in the New Testament. And read it.

Write it down. There are not many verses. Write it down. Always, always, always. And go to God with those verses. I did this. And I said Lord every single one of these verses I want fulfilled in my life.

I mean I'm talking to those who mean business with God. Not those who are playing games. I mean if you're only interested in rules and playing games you can do what you like. But if you're serious about the things we're speaking about.

About this indestructible life. The life the devil is scared of. The devil cannot touch if you want that life. If you want your life to count for God. If you want to live a worthwhile life before you leave this earth.

Let me say to you brother, sister. Do this bit of homework. Go and take the word always. Look in the concordance and write down all the verses where the word always comes. And if there are commands in the New Testament especially.

And say Lord I want this life. Not a one day in seven type of thing. What does it mean when it says in Hebrews four. There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Which they haven't come into. And it's not one day in seven. It's always. Acts 24 16. I do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience before God and man. Can you say that you are seeking you are doing your very best to maintain your conscience blameless always always always.

You know the Bible says don't let the sun set on your anger. In Ephesians four. That's a helpful time limit God has given us. Be angry but don't sin. Ephesians 4 26. Don't let the sun set on your anger.

Now in those days when there was no electricity sunset was usually the time for people to go to bed. So what he's essentially saying in today's language is don't go to bed with some anger still left in your heart.

Get rid of it before the sun sets. Get rid of it before the end of the day. Most marriages I've conducted I've given the husband and wife the bride and the bridegroom one bit of advice. I've said never go to sleep with something unsettled between you.

You may have problems don't imagine that everything will be as perfect as it is right now at your wedding time. You'll have problems you'll have strains tensions difficulties but never go to bed without settling everything between both of you.

Is that difficult? It's difficult for a proud person. It's very easy for a humble person. If you have a tension there's some type of little difficulty some thing where you don't feel like speaking to other one another.

Before you go to bed even if the other partner is not willing you do your part say I'm sorry. Because even if it's 99 the other person's fault at least 1 is yours. The only case where it is 100 one person's fault is between God and us.

When God and us have we had a problem certainly it's 100 our fault. In every other case some percentage of the fault is with one party. All this business of divorce of innocent party and divorce is all a lot of rubbish.

There is no such thing as an innocent party in divorce. Maybe the percentage of fault is 70 one 30 another but there's no case where it's 100 one person's fault. Impossible. You got to find some race other than the fallen race of Adam to find that type of thing.

But in the fallen race of Adam every tension has got a certain percentage of fault in one person. So I tell this bride and bridegroom make sure that you never go to bed without asking forgiveness from one another.

And your pride will resist that. Your pride will say let the other person come first and ask and then I shall ask forgiveness. So I tell them who should ask forgiveness first? The husband or the wife?

What do you think? Well the sisters may have one answer, the brothers may have another answer. I'll tell you what the answer is. Whoever is more spiritual should ask forgiveness first. Should restore the relationship first.

And the reason I say that is when God and I had a problem you know who took the first step to restore the relationship? The one who was more spiritual. Almighty God. Even though the fault was zero with him because he was more spiritual than me he humbled himself to restore that relationship.

Is this the life you want? Is this the life you want? Where the fault is zero with you you humble yourself in order to restore a relationship which has been broken. You're a man of God. You're a woman of God.

Otherwise it's just pious rubbish we're singing and talking on in church meetings. So I say in a husband and wife who shall take the first step to restore a relationship? Whoever thinks they're more spiritual.

And I say to husband and wife since both of you think you're more spiritual you should be running into each other's arms. Why isn't it so? Don't you think you're more spiritual than your husband? Don't you think you're more spiritual than your wife?

You should be just running. And I say why should you wait till sunset? I mean that's the outer limit God has given. A spiritual man doesn't wait till sunset. He settles matters immediately. I do my best to maintain always.

Paul didn't say by sunset I keep my conscience clear. I keep my conscience clear always. That means as soon as I'm aware that I've hurt my wife I go and say I'm sorry. I tell you if there's anything that'll crush your pride and make you a humble man that's it.

To do it immediately. Especially when you have to do it. I know of the times when I've had to do it to unbelievers. I've had to do it to people who are younger than my youngest son. Young. When I make a mistake when I've spoken to someone and it's a bit harsh and rude I had to correct somebody in the church once and afterwards the Lord said to me that was a very harsh way you did it.

Go and apologize. He was younger than my youngest son. I went right up to him and I said I'm sorry. I was determined that I'm gonna live an indestructible life. And no pride from the devil was gonna keep me from that indestructible life.

I tell you if you're desperate you can live it. Anyone who's desperately wanting this indestructible life will have it. But if you stand on your pride and your dignity and your reputation I can give it to you in writing you can come for a hundred conferences you'll just hear all about it.

It'll all be theory. You'll never be free from anything. God gives his grace to the humble. There's a wonderful life that God has offered to us. The secret of Jesus life was that the grace of God was upon him.

Grace as Help in Time of Need

Now many people haven't understood this. Many people think that grace means the unmerited favor of God. That's the rubbish that came out of some bible college. And the multi millions of Christians who believe that rubbish is amazing.

When it says there was no grace on earth till Jesus Christ came what does it mean? There was no unmerited favor that God. Everybody gets unmerited favor. What about that atheist down the road who's got health and strength?

Where does he get it from? It's the unmerited favor of God that that atheist is getting. But it's not grace. Oh no. Grace is not the unmerited favor of God. Grace is help in our time of need. Let's get a scriptural definition for grace.

Let me show you Hebrews in chapter 4. This is the only way we can live this life. Hebrews chapter 4 verse 15. It's talking about Jesus Christ. We don't have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses.

But one who has been tempted in all things as we are and yet without sin. Now he's set there as an example. Remember he's talking about Jesus our forerunner and he says he was also tempted like you in every single point.

Jesus was tempted to anger. Jesus was tempted to lust. Jesus was tempted to be discouraged. Jesus was tempted to love money. Jesus was tempted to every single thing that you and I are tempted with. And you can see that in the Bible.

It says that in the King James version too. Versions don't make a difference when it comes to this. He was tempted in every point as we are but he did not sin. Now that's the point at which the devil says ah but he was the son of God.

And that's what Hebrews is written for. He was made in all things like his brothers. Hebrews 2 .17. In all things he was made like his brothers like us. Therefore therefore let us therefore verse 16 because he was tempted like us in every point and did not sin.

Therefore let us draw near to the throne of grace with boldness so that first of all we can receive mercy. Jesus didn't need mercy because he never sinned. All of us need mercy because we sin so often.

We need mercy for the forgiveness of our sins and once we've got mercy and our sins are all forgiven that we shall find grace and here's the definition of grace. Help in the time of need. That's what grace means.

Whatever my need is. And my biggest need is not money I'll tell you that. My biggest need is to overcome sin. My biggest need is to get rid of this destructible life of Adam that I've inherited from my parents and my forefathers.

That's our biggest need and if you see that as the biggest need you'll come to God for help in the time of need when this destructible life of Adam is seeking to drag you down into sin and death. Say God I come to you for grace.

The same grace that Jesus had which helped him to overcome sin. How many of you knew that Jesus needed grace when he lived on this earth? I tell you 99 of Christians don't even know that. Let me show you in Luke chapter 2 in verse 40.

This is why we need to read the Bible slowly. Talking about Jesus from the time of his childhood. Luke chapter 2 verse 39 it says about Jesus going back to Nazareth in verse 40. The child Jesus continued to grow and become strong increasing in wisdom and the grace of God was upon him which means he was under grace.

He was the first man that walked on this earth who was under the grace of God. He had identified himself with us completely. There was no sin in him. But to overcome sin he needed to be under grace. Just like it says in Romans 6 verse 14.

Sin shall not rule over you when you are under grace. When you are under this waterfall of grace, sin cannot touch you. But if you move out from there then sin has power over you. And Jesus also needed this grace.

The child grew and the grace of God was upon him. He was under grace and so he never sinned. That's how he began his life. What about the end of his life? Let's go to Hebrews chapter 2. How is it that Jesus went to the cross?

Do you think it's easy to go to the cross? I'm not talking about the physical aspect of that death on the cross. That many martyrs have gone but they also needed grace from God. But the greatest agony that Jesus faced on the cross was being forsaken by his father for those three hours.

When he faced the agony of hell, the punishment for our sin. This is another misunderstanding among evangelical Christians. That physical death is the punishment for sin. How many of you believe that physical death is the punishment for sin?

Just listen to this. Just listen to this logic. If physical death is the punishment for our sin, then when we physically die, we have paid the punishment for our sin. And when a man dies, unbeliever, atheist, anybody, he has paid the price for his sins, everybody should go to heaven.