WWUTT 2390 Q&A Finding a Good Spouse, Becoming a Pastor's Wife, Building One Another Up

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What can a young man do to find a good godly wife? What can a young woman do to prepare to be a pastor's wife?

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How can we continue to lift up and encourage one another in the church? The answers to these questions when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand The Text, a production of Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Casa Grande, Arizona.

00:31

Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. And once again, it's

00:36

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Welcome back. Yay! Are you feeling better?

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I am. Yes, we still have a child that's kinda meh. Yeah. But.

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Let's not talk about that. Power of positive thinking. I will it to happen. Our words will become our reality if we talk about it.

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So, yeah. We're in denial, in other words. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

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All right, let's come back to Proverbs chapter 10. She's fine.

01:10

She's just, her stomach is sensitive from having a stomach bug, so. So, her stomach feels queasy, and then it's compounded by the fact that she's nervous about having a queasy stomach, and so now it feels worse.

01:22

Yes. Okay, yeah, I get it. Yeah, that's all. All right, here is Proverbs chapter 10.

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Pull out a few verses from here. Verse eight, no, I read verse eight last week. Verse 10, whoever winks the eye causes trouble, and a babbling fool will come to ruin.

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We read something like that last week too. Verse eight, the wise of heart will receive commandments, the wise man will receive instruction, but the babbling fool will come to ruin.

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We see this over and over throughout Proverbs and in Ecclesiastes, the more a person talks, the more they show their foolishness.

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Yeah. So, we remember the words of James who said, be quick to hear and slow to speak, quick to listen.

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Verse 11, the mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life, but the mouth of the wicked conceals violence.

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So again, you're talking about words. Yeah. The righteous man will speak words that are an encouragement, that give grace to those who hear, that's

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Ephesians 4 .29. Whereas the wicked man conceals violence, he means harm towards somebody else.

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Yeah. With his words, he would tear somebody down. So, that's what's in his heart.

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Let the words that we speak, therefore, be encouraging to others, especially when it comes to sharing the gospel with somebody else.

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Yeah. There are not words that could be more life -giving than sharing the gospel of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. He who died on the cross for our sins, rose again from the dead. And whoever believes in him will not perish under the judgment of God that we all deserve.

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But by faith in Christ, we are justified and we will have everlasting life.

03:08

Amen. Well, this being the end of the week edition of When We Understand the Text, we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

03:20

Yes. Or send us a voicemail. Go to www .utt .com, click on that voicemail tab and you can record a voicemail, either through your phone or through your computer.

03:30

We'd love to hear from you. Definitely. The podcast has a new logo. Yes. We are coming up on 10 years, babe.

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10. 10 years. And lest anybody ask why my picture is in the new podcast logo, but Becky's is not.

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I'm okay with that. She does not want her photo in the podcast logo. No. As it was,

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I had to put the sketch of us in the podcast. That was the only way that she would allow me to put any sort of imagery of her whatsoever.

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Yes. As if it was the sketch that was made of both of us that was in the podcast logo. You're so sweet to think of me, but no.

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I'd rather put you in there. I'm only on Friday, so it's okay. No, you are on.

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You carry the bulk of it. Okay, fair enough. You are on every day. That's fair enough. I knew that was coming.

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However. I mean, it's been 10 years. But me chatting. With you chatting?

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Yeah, me chatting. Yeah, you chatting. Yeah, it's only Friday. That's a big deal. It is a big deal.

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People listen to the Fridays. It's just Fridays. For you. It's good. It's good. I'm good. So this first question actually has to do with the two of us doing

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Friday together. Okay, here we go. This is from Trenton in Georgia. Hey, Pastor Gabe.

04:55

Hi, Ms. Becky. Hope you guys are doing well. I have a question. So as I was listening to the end of the week podcast, like I see that you and Ms.

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Becky are like, you guys go really, really well together. And though I'm a young man, there's not a lot of godly women.

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So props to you, Ms. Becky. Aw. You are a blessing to your husband. I need a person like that.

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How can I be able to discern that kind of person? I know I'm in high school, and mind you,

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I'm from Georgia. I'm Trenton, like Trenton, New Jersey, and I live in Georgia. So I wanna know what

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I can find a godly woman. I have heard of Proverbs 31, the Proverbs 31 woman, but I really need to interpret this.

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I believe I've become a new creature in the Lord Jesus Christ, but I need to keep on going.

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I wanna make sure that I'm not the one in Matthew 7, 21, 23, where Jesus says, depart from me,

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I never knew you. That's one of those scary and concerning words one can ever hear, and I don't wanna be that person.

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I really don't. It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. All right, thank you so much for what you guys do, and please keep me in your prayers, and I'll do the same for you.

06:23

We sure will, Trenton. Aw, thanks. Babe, how can Trenton find another you?

06:29

Oh, my. Hey, Trenton, I know how blessed I am. Brother, you don't know the half of it.

06:36

Okay, so first off, I was not godly before I was saved, so.

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Well, none of us are. I mean. Not even that upstanding. I was a train wreck. Yeah, okay.

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Not even that upstanding moral person, yeah. Yeah, so be patient and pray.

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I've seen pictures of you in high school, and I was like, I definitely would've dated that girl. And I would've dated you.

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She was cute. But I was a train wreck. It was good that we didn't find each other then. It was the

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Lord's providence, and yes, totally worth the wait. Until we got ourselves sorted out enough.

07:17

Well, he sorted us out. Yes, well, yeah. Better way to put it. Yes, so true.

07:23

So, Trenton, I will tell you that even before I met this woman, I mean, I had some relationships before that that were devastating.

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Becky, the same. We made some poor relationship decisions before we found each other. But even before this happened, before marriage happened, before having kids together,

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I was being trained in the scriptures. My dad taught me how to read the

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Bible. I listened to radio programs all the time. So today we can watch sermons on YouTube, or you can go to Sermon Audio, or you got podcasts.

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I mean, the - It's at your fingertips. It's everywhere. Literally. It's so wonderful to have this library of great biblical teaching.

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Of course, you should listen to your pastor. You should attend a good church. Listen to the teaching of your teachers there, entrusting yourself to those who shepherd your soul.

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That's in Hebrews 13, verses 7 and 17. But it's great that, and kind of supplemental to that, you can also watch all these great sermons online.

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And so for me, before there was YouTube, or podcasts, or anything else, it was radio. And I grew up in radio, so every day

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I got to listen to people like John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul, but also

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Chuck Swindoll, Woodrow Kroll, J. Vernon McGee, Adrian Rogers.

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These were just some of the Bible teachers that poured into me day in and day out. Yeah. I haven't even met most of them.

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But - Right. But it was great to sit under that kind of teaching and be filled up with the word, so that when that day came, and I meet

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Becky, and then we become parents, and we're raising children together, she would even come to points where she would ask me, how do you know to do that?

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How did you just know to do that? Or answer with that, or teach our kids this, or something like that. And it's because of the years, and years, and years of Bible teaching that I got before I got married.

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Yeah. And so help me in wisdom to pick the right woman as well, and lead this woman, and to also be sanctified by her.

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We sanctify one another. That's true. Not only as husband and wife, but as a brother and sister in the

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Lord. Amen. And so continue in those things, exactly as you said there toward the end, keep your focus on Christ.

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If you keep your focus on Christ, you don't have to worry about standing before him on that day and hearing, depart from me, you lawless one,

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I never knew you. Right. Hebrews chapter 12, let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, who is the author and the perfecter of our faith.

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So fixing your eyes upon Christ, he will by his spirit sustain you, as we read in John 10, no one will snatch them out of my hand, my sheep know my voice and they follow me.

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And so you know the voice of the Savior, you follow the Savior, you won't have to worry about hearing such painful words at the very end of the last judgment, nothing to be concerned about if you are focused on Christ.

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And as you are running along toward Christ, look over and see if somebody's running with you, a pretty young lady who is also pursuing godliness, and you can say to her, let's run together.

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And the two of you together in pursuit of Christ, if God blesses that becomes marriage and a lifelong relationship that is extremely rewarding.

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This marriage, this relationship that Becky and I have has been incredibly rewarding,

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I can't even begin to tell you, like I said. So, yeah. So of course, yeah, looking for the

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Proverbs 31 woman, always good to read those things, but listen to, look up some sermons and things like that from those that talk about finding a godly spouse.

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Voddie Bauckham's done several on that. I know that he did a series on what my future son -in -law needs to know.

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So I don't know if there's, I mean, surely there's gonna be wisdom in that for you, but then about how to find a godly wife,

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I don't know that I could direct you to a series right off the top of my head, but I know they're out there. Yes.

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Anything else to add? I was just thinking that, you know, no matter who you might be interested in, just absolutely respect them in the fact that you don't cross any lines or even come close to crossing lines, especially with how young you are.

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You make sure that you both are truly running towards the Lord, because there's so many that do like a sprint and then don't anymore.

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Yeah, you had that burst of enthusiasm. Yes, yes, and then they stop suddenly, and you're like, why did you stop?

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As you keep going, you're like, hey, come on, catch up, catch up, and then they're no longer there.

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Yeah, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Right, exactly, and so you need to make sure that they are truly going the path of the

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Lord, which is narrow. Yeah, also in Matthew 7, yeah, as you mentioned.

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So it's just, I don't know how to explain it other than it's good to make sure, and the wisdom comes with many counselors, right?

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Right, Proverbs. Yes, and so get that extra information from others whenever you do find someone you might be interested in.

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You're a young man, you're in high school, no need to rush it. No, absolutely not. But I understand the desire as well.

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Maybe you will find a high school sweetheart. You never know. Nothing wrong with that. And we'll be praying for you. Absolutely, let's say a prayer for him right now.

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Okay. Heavenly Father, we thank you for Trenton, and we thank you for this message that he has sent to us.

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And I pray that you would continue to guide him, put wise counselors around him, good godly men that he can look up to and follow their example and receive their teaching.

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And Lord, it is his desire and his heart to want to marry a godly woman. Would you put one in his path?

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And he would love her as Christ loves the church, as we as husbands are instructed in Ephesians 5, and that she also would submit to him as the church submits to Christ.

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May we be a reflection of the way Christ loves his church in our marriages. It is in Jesus' name that we pray, amen.

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Amen. All right, babe, this one's a little bit longer. Okay. And we're gonna keep this anonymous. Okay. This woman is asking a question, it seems to be a little bit geared more toward you.

14:08

Okay. Hey, Pastor Gabe, I have a question that has been heavy on my heart, and it's actually more for Becky.

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Although I would love input from the both of you. My husband is currently attending seminary, studying biblical studies in hopes of becoming a pastor once he's finished with school.

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He and I both believe that he is called to become a pastor, and I fully support him in this endeavor.

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I admire his skill, passion, and love for sharing the gospel with others. However, recently

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I've been thinking more about this and what this life would look like for myself as a pastor's wife, and I'm feeling really concerned.

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From what I've witnessed in my own experience and from what I've heard through others, being a pastor's wife has a lot of undue and even unbiblical expectations.

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It seems as though the wife is expected to also be called, so to speak, to run various church groups, teach

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Sunday school, run the childcare programs, et cetera. These expectations that I fear

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I will face bother me for a few reasons. Number one, I'm currently working full -time, and given our finances and the amount pastors are normally paid, that will continue into this new role for my spouse.

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We also have a two -year -old, another on the way, that I watch full -time.

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I also intend to homeschool as they get older. Number two, I am not gifted in the sense of teaching or leading groups, such as the women's

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Bible study, for example. I am more on the introverted side, and I do not want to feel forced to do things that make me feel extremely uncomfortable or unhappy.

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I want to serve the church, but in a way that suits who I am. Number three,

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I am also concerned that church won't feel like a safe place for me anymore, and instead of feeling comfortable,

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I will feel uncomfortable, and I don't want to have this outlook every Sunday. I love church, and I fear this could cause me to instead dread the pressure of going to church with everyone's eyes on the pastor's wife and losing the normalcy of church.

16:09

I'm hoping to hear Becky's take on this. What was her experience initially, and how does she feel about it now?

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Did she feel this pressure as a pastor's wife that I am worried about? Did she feel as though she was being watched and felt uncomfortable at church?

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Did other church members question her involvement if she wasn't doing enough? Thank you for everything you both do.

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I am eager to hear back, but I realize this is a long email and likely a long answer.

16:36

An email response would be lovely as well. All right. Well, thank you, Anonymous.

16:42

Yes, thank you. For your question. All right, babe, any initial thoughts that you have to that?

16:47

Oh, so many. Okay, so my experience, I was not in the church, like a

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Christian church for terribly long, I would say. You were in more liberal churches, you're saying.

17:04

Well, you were Catholic. I was Catholic. Yeah, I knew you were raised Catholic. I was raised Catholic. And so then a little bit in college, maybe a little bit out of college,

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I attended the Lutheran church. Right. And then after that,

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I tried the Methodist church. It didn't work out for me because I sat in somebody's spot and I was like, whoa, this is weird.

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That they would even care that I sat in a pew. Anyway, and then after that,

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I didn't attend church a whole lot until after my life experience and moved back in with my parents and attended church with them, so.

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You became a Christian, got baptized, was it 08 or 09? 08, I think it was. 08. Yeah. So it was

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Becky's idea that I would become a pastor. Well, sure, but I'm getting to that.

18:01

Okay, okay, so I'm jumping ahead too far. You are, you are. All right. So anyway, as the normalcy of me going to church, it didn't happen for very long is what

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I'm getting at. So it just, you're in the ebb and flow, you help where you're needed.

18:19

In our case, we had to put out the chairs and put them back up and stuff like that. And so it was different, but it wasn't terribly different whenever you became the worship pastor.

18:36

Okay, so this was a church that your dad was helping start. And I - Well, I was talking about the church before that, but yes.

18:44

Right, oh, oh, oh, at - Prior to that one. Okay, the one where you met me and I had not met you.

18:51

Yes, that one. Right. We have a unique story. For the sake of time,

18:57

I'm moving this up a little bit though here. Okay, but what I was getting at was just the fact that I don't have much experience having that every day for years and years and years.

19:07

Right. It was only like a couple of years at the most. Whereas I grew up in church. Right. So for her experience, it's probably different than my experience because it was just a natural growth.

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Okay. Into - Into the pastor's wife role. Yeah. Okay, I see what you're saying, yeah.

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Because it just kept going. Because you were already freshly into church. Yes, yes, still getting my normal.

19:30

Yeah. You know, I'm not set in my ways at this point. So she was saved in 08 and we got married in 2010.

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Yes. To give you kind of a perspective of how quickly all of that went. Right. So when we were dating, she got the idea, it got the idea.

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I got the idea. I know, it kind of - It suddenly came to me. That's not really the way to put it. So she'd heard me preach.

19:54

Yes. She'd heard me preach and it was one night on a date. It was dark outside.

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She said to me, I think you're going to be a great pastor someday. I think you could be a great pastor. I think you could. That was the exact wording?

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Yes. Okay. And I rolled my eyes at her. Oh, it was such a big eye roll. It was hilarious.

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I thought it was - I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're falling over. I hated the idea, yeah. I heard it when

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I was growing up. And it was because, again, you know, my dad taught me the scriptures when I was growing up. I knew them better than my peers.

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May not have lived it out so great. Yes. But I knew the Bible better than my peers. And whenever I'm responding with these biblical answers and I'm doing it in my radio voice,

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I had so many adults saying to me, oh, you're going to be a pastor someday. So I'd heard that for years.

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And then my girlfriend's doing it. I'm just telling it like it is. But then it so happened.

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We got engaged on New Year's Eve slash New Year's Day. I don't even remember if it was like right at midnight or right after.

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Oh no, you made me wait until after midnight. You were not ready yet. Okay, so it was technically - New Year's Day. January 1 of 2010.

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Yes. And it was just like a week or two after we got engaged that a friend of mine called me up and said that we have a full -time job for you being the worship leader at our church.

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You would be ordained as a pastor. Do you want to do it? And it was just kind of wild how all of this was moving that way.

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There's more to the story than that. That would make you go, are you serious? Yeah. I mean, God's providence in all of it, yeah.

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But that phone call that day, and I told Becky about it and she, in a manner of speaking, said you're going to apply for it.

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Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens with this. I was in the process of moving out of radio.

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I wanted to be out of Christian radio by the time we got married. Right, because you were pulling the all -nighters.

21:51

Yeah, I was working 12 to 14 -hour days. So there was a lot on my plate. I didn't want to do it for the rest of my life anyway.

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It was a good time to get out because podcasting and iPods and all that stuff were getting real popular and radio was kind of on the decline.

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So I got out at the right time, but I had an idea what I was going to do. It was not becoming a pastor, but we applied for it and it worked out by April.

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I was accepted into the position. We got married in August. I was ordained on August the 15th, two weeks after our wedding, and the rest is history.

22:29

Not quite. Okay, so then he went from associate pastor to two years later, wasn't it, that you became head pastor?

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Right, in 2012. That was the biggest transition for us because as associate pastor, it was just kind of like, eh,

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I could still do my thing behind, because I'm not one to be in front of crowds either.

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And yeah, so I'm doing my thing behind the scenes and stuff like that.

23:00

Like I'm the filler, so you don't realize things are missing, right? And so then he became a head pastor and all of a sudden,

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I'm something and I'm up on a pedestal and I'm like, get me down from here right now. I don't need to be up here.

23:19

I don't deserve to be up here. I don't know. And so it was just - Yeah, the disposition toward us changed.

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It was so weird. People just started talking to me, not introducing me as a friend or anything.

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It's now she's the head pastor's wife or something. And it was just, it was bizarre.

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I was uncomfortable with it, honestly. I will say this though, whether it was the interview that we did when

23:46

I came on as associate pastor with the emphasis in worship, or when we were now going through the interview process of becoming the pastor, the main preaching pastor.

23:58

This was before we had elders that wouldn't come about until three years later. But even in both of those interviews, the question came up,

24:08

I asked the question, what are your expectations for my wife? Even though I'm barely 30 years old, 29,

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I knew of some of the unrealistic expectations that a church could place on a pastor's wife.

24:22

And you were still practically a brand new believer. So what were the expectations going to be upon you?

24:28

And I'm grateful that whatever church we've been in, in whatever role we've served, the reaction has always been, well, she's your wife.

24:38

So she's going to support the pastor. There's no expectation on her to lead a Bible study or do anything else.

24:45

As Becky feels comfortable, she'll get involved in those places that she knows she's gifted in. But there was not any unrealistic expectation placed upon you that you were gonna be a teacher in some capacity.

24:57

I think if anybody was pushing her into doing that, I thought it was me. Yes, I would confer that.

25:04

Because I knew that you could do it, but it was outside of your comfort zone.

25:09

Oh, big time. Yeah. So she does it now. She's not leading a women's group or anything like that.

25:17

No. But you do organize the nursery volunteers. Isn't that what you do? Yeah. I do the behind the scenes.

25:24

Exactly. I fill in the blanks. That's right. There's not too many blanks here though. Yeah. There's a lot of things that are absolutely covered wonderfully.

25:34

Yes. We're in such a great church. I can't even begin to tell you. That seems to be my theme this episode.

25:41

You don't know the half of it. I can't begin to tell you. Anyway, moving on.

25:47

Yes. So yes, your foresight and making sure that was covered in the interview process,

25:56

I think helped a lot in the expectations. Number one, that I put on myself, because in the beginning,

26:04

I had no idea what I was doing and still a brand new believer, if you call that four years into it.

26:11

Yeah. Yeah. And then, and I'm still like, I don't even know what to do.

26:16

I don't know what pastors do. I don't know what pastor's wives do. Like, what do we do? What are we doing? And so it was just, it was really nice to have you set this, set the tone for everything.

26:27

And then the expectations of my job was mainly so you could do your job.

26:35

Right, exactly. And make it so much easier for you to do your job. Yeah. And so that's where my main focus was.

26:42

So if I was volunteering in too many places that I felt like it was straining you, I'm like, nope, I've got to back it up.

26:48

Yeah. And so I think that balance, I mean, seasons come and seasons go and it just depends on what season you're in as to how much you can put forth.

26:58

Right. I mean, you managed our home as a Titus II woman is supposed to do and cared for our children.

27:05

And we had decided even before we got married that we were going to homeschool our kids. And so Becky put forth all that work, even picking the curriculum and setting together lesson plans for the kids and things of that nature.

27:17

And that's what she did. And you did fabulous at it. Well, thank you. And I never felt like, through 15 years of being a pastor now,

27:27

I have never felt like, oh man, all this trouble that I've had at church and now

27:32

I have to go home and handle all the trouble at home. It's never been that. Home has always been a place that I could come home to and I was at peace.

27:44

And it was the kind of house that Becky made as a loving wife and a wonderful mother.

27:52

And I hope, Anonymous, that doesn't put too much pressure on you. But just kind of sharing our experience in that.

28:01

Yeah. Babe, why don't we do, in the next half hour, we continue this conversation. Okay. So we've laid out some things here.

28:08

If you listen to the podcast, then hang tight because there's more of this episode to come. If you're listening on the radio, we thank you for listening.

28:16

And you can always find the longer program by searching for WWUTT on whatever podcast app you like to use.

28:23

We thank you for listening in. And remember, you can always send us a question via email when we understand the text at gmail .com

28:29

or send us a voicemail at WWUTT .com. I feel like there was something else

28:35

I was gonna plug this week, but I don't remember what it was now. That's enough. That's my sign off now.

28:42

That's enough. God bless you guys. God willing, we'll talk to you next week. God bless.

28:57

What are the qualifications for a pastor? Well, first of all, a pastor must be a man.

29:02

Right before God gives the requirements in 1 Timothy 3, one through seven, the spirit says, I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.

29:11

Rather, she is to remain quiet. The list of qualifications that follows describes a godly man.

29:17

An overseer must be above reproach, meaning that he must walk in holiness and without blame.

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The husband of one wife or a one -woman man. He must be sober -minded. Another word for this is temperate or not given over to wild ideas.

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He must be self -controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, which is the one skill that a pastor must exhibit.

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Titus 1 .9 says he must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and rebuke those who contradict it.

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He must not be a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money, lest he compromise the truth for selfish gain.

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He must manage his own household well with all dignity keeping his children submissive. For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?

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He must not be a recent convert but prove his worth over time. He must be well thought of by outsiders for how will he effectively share the message of the gospel if he does not love his neighbor?

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Now, these are character qualities we should all aspire to. The pastor is to be an example for the whole church of a mature

30:23

Christian when we understand the text. All right, babe, I wanna come back to Anonymous's email here and addressing her concerns that she has about becoming a pastor's wife.

30:34

Her husband's at seminary and she's already feeling the pressure of what's expected of me as a pastor's wife when he becomes a pastor.

30:45

Yeah, sure, fair enough. So she listed three main concerns. Let's go through these individually. But first of all,

30:50

I wanna mention before doing this, there are some unrealistic expectations out there for pastor's wives.

30:56

She's absolutely right to feel concerned about that. It's almost as if there is like another office.

31:04

There's the office of pastor and there's the office of pastor's wife. But while we have qualifications for a pastor given in scripture, so in 1

31:14

Timothy 3 or in Titus 1 and other places, those are the two main chapters, but there are other places where we find qualifications for pastors.

31:22

There's no list of anything for a pastor's wife. Correct. In fact, even when you go to 1

31:29

Timothy 3 and you look at the qualifications for overseers, the wife is not mentioned except to say that he must be the husband of one wife.

31:40

That's right. There's only one. And then verse four, he must manage his own household well with all dignity, keeping his children submissive.

31:49

For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? Okay, when you look at the qualifications for deacons in that next paragraph, deacons likewise must be dignified, not double tongue, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

32:06

They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. Verse 11, their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober -minded, faithful in all things.

32:19

It's interesting that the wives are listed for the deacons. There's qualifications for her, but there are not qualifications for the overseer's wife, for the pastor's wife, elder, bishop, whatever word that you wanna substitute in there, same office.

32:35

But his wife is not mentioned as meeting certain qualifications if she's going to be a pastor's wife.

32:44

Yeah. Or if he's going to be a pastor, she must meet these qualifications. There's nothing listed in there except that he must manage his own household well.

32:53

So really all she must do is be a wife. Yes. And there should not be any further expectations on her in her involvement in the church outside of what any other woman in the church would do.

33:08

Find her gifting, what she's good at, how she can serve the church, and she can serve in that capacity.

33:15

But mainly, as we've mentioned, her role is gonna be supporting her husband. Yeah. Just as any wife would support her husband in whatever endeavor he is in.

33:26

Right. So we kinda lay that out with regards to the pastor's wife and recognize that there are some unrealistic expectations that are out there.

33:34

So let's look at these concerns that Anonymous has individually. So the first concern,

33:40

I'm currently working full -time. Ah, yes. All right, let's stop there because -

33:45

That's already a thing. Yeah, because you were working before we got married.

33:52

Correct. We got married August 1st. I think you quit your job in June, middle part of June if I remember right.

33:58

I think so, it was about that. So, cause I told her and we had already said, you're not gonna be working,

34:05

I'm gonna provide for the family. Now, Anonymous has some other concerns related to that. We'll get to that here in a moment.

34:11

Right. But just to say that you didn't have to enter into marriage and even becoming a pastor's wife with that, working full -time.

34:21

Right. Cause you were already at home. And when you resigned from your position, you were even serving on a school board at that particular time.

34:29

I was. But had to quit because you were gonna move out of the county. Yes. To come live with me.

34:35

Yes. And therefore could not be serving on the school board anymore.

34:41

So, you quit your job. And I remember when that happened in mid June and all of a sudden I'm grabbing your bills at the start of July.

34:48

And I was like, oh my heavens, I'm already feeling this. Maybe she should have worked for one more month, maybe.

34:55

I asked you, I said, are you sure? I did. Are you sure, sure? Are you really, really, really sure?

35:03

And you were like, yep, I've got this. And it wasn't until years later that I was like,

35:08

I didn't have that. And I told that to her. I just kind of kept it like,

35:14

I've got it, I'm good. I was a man, you know. He owned it. I saw a video just recently of a guy that was, like the camera angle is under the eve of the, what do you call it?

35:28

The eve of the house. Yeah. And so you're just looking at like the lower two thirds of the ladder or something like that.

35:34

So he's up on the roof. You see the ladder kind of jostle and he just falls. So something happened on the roof and he hits the ladder and hits the deck.

35:44

Oh no. And he looks like he's laying there unconscious. And his wife walks out of the house in front of the camera and goes, are you okay?

35:53

And he just gets up and like grabs his glasses and puts them on like nothing happened. Yeah, fine. I'm good.

36:01

It was such a guy response. Whatever bit of adrenaline he had left, he spent it all right there just to get up.

36:11

Put on the glasses. And say that he was fine, yep. So it was like that where you were asking me, are you okay?

36:20

And it's like, I'm getting up, putting my glasses on, yep, I'm fine. I got this. And it wasn't until years later that I told you,

36:29

I didn't have that. It was a struggle. Yeah. I think I even asked my brother for money.

36:36

Like, dude, just like a hundred bucks or something. I need to hit, I need to stay in the black end of this month.

36:43

It was quite tight the first few years. Oh yeah, our first, until I became the pastor.

36:50

Yeah, I think those first two years were easily our hardest. Yeah. Well. Easily our hardest.

36:55

Not the hardest, but very difficult. Financially? Oh, well, yeah, okay.

37:01

With the house. Yeah. Right, right, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Last year with the house. How could I forget? It has been the hardest.

37:07

Yeah. But we're not done yet. Never know, something else could come along.

37:15

But yes. So, well, let me come back, let me come back to number one here.

37:21

Yeah, I was gonna say. So I'm currently working full time and given our finances and the amount that pastors are normally paid, that will continue into this new role for my spouse.

37:31

It's possible. Now, it appears as if she has a job though, where she can still care for the two -year -old.

37:37

That's what I was thinking too, yeah. So she said, we also have a two -year -old and another on the way, yep. And whom

37:44

I watch full time. And then I also intend to homeschool as they get older. So she'll obviously not have a job when she's putting in those hours, homeschooling the kids.

37:54

Possibly, depends on what she does, I suppose. Yeah, so in the meantime, working to help kind of sustain everything.

38:01

So any counsel there? Just make sure that you are balancing well, because when life gets off balance and any side of it is heavy, then you tend to do burnout way faster.

38:20

And so just make sure that you have plenty of support and plenty of backup that when you do need that time to focus on something, like one thing, that you're able to do that.

38:37

So whether it be like somebody comes and helps you clean the house, so that way you can play with the kids a little bit longer, or someone helps watch the kids so you can work a little bit longer, or you guys can go on a date night.

38:50

Maybe you do the whole like, where you and a friend's like couple, then you watch their kids one night and they watch your kids one night.

39:03

So it's like free babysitting, but not, it's a swap.

39:09

Especially when we came here to Arizona, I think that with the house not selling, the

39:15

Lord really used that to put us in a spot to have to rely on our church. So there was like,

39:21

I tried to do the invincible husband thing, even when it came to my relationship with the church.

39:27

Like I didn't want anybody to know that there was a problem. It was one of the elders that came to me finally and said, you've got to be struggling.

39:36

Like there's no way that you guys are just fine with a house that hasn't sold yet and you're paying rent.

39:44

So like, just being discerning. Just doing the math. Yeah, he had to come to me and go, if you got trouble, you've got to tell us, because we'll help.

39:54

And so it put us in a position to have to rely on them. So this could be a thing where when your husband becomes a pastor, these struggles that you're going to have in the very beginning will put you in a spot to have to rely on other people in the church.

40:11

Oh yeah. And that's good. That's very good. That's a good thing. You need to be willing to be vulnerable.

40:17

Like don't enter into this, because I understand the trepidation that you have, concerns that there's going to be these unrealistic expectations.

40:25

It could cause you to be closed off. It can, very easily. Not getting the help that you need when you need it.

40:34

So be open with those ladies. Not to the point that, of course, you want to break trust with your husband.

40:41

Right. Everything is going to be, as the two of you have discussed it.

40:47

But then talking with the ladies about, we're really struggling with this, or what I really need right now as a babysitter, because I need to do this.

40:54

So you'll rely on the people on your church. And that's good. That's the way we're supposed to be.

40:59

As brothers and sisters in the Lord, serving one another. You're giving somebody the opportunity to serve the pastor's wife.

41:06

Yes. So that you can do the things that you've got to do. And that's a great place. God intends for you to be in that spot, that you have to rely on somebody else.

41:15

And if you don't do it willingly, he kind of forces you into it. That's right. So the rest of number one, that last sentence, as she says, all that to say,

41:25

I do not have the time to be heavily involved in the way that it seems to be expected of me. So that's the reason why she mentions.

41:31

I think it just depends on the church and the church's needs. Like there's always seasons of everything.

41:39

So the church will go through seasons as well, where it's very needy or it's very like, oh, this, you know, everything's smooth.

41:45

Laid back, yeah. Yeah. And so it just depends on where the season is and how your church functions.

41:53

If it's a healthy church, then there won't be that heavy burden of people assuming you're not doing enough.

42:02

Right. The majority of churches though, I mean, if I have to put a figure on it, four out of five are in need of serious overhaul.

42:15

You know, a change in doctrine, a change in ecclesiology, the way the church is supposed to function.

42:22

And just going through 1st and 2nd Timothy and Titus, just reading those letters and then examining the church based on those pastoral letters and seeing what changes need to happen in the church.

42:34

Your husband's going to know that. Right. You know, he's going to be learned in that, seasoned in that enough to be able to assess the needs of the church.

42:44

So all of that to say, there's probably going to be some serious rebuilding or focus on problem areas that are going to need to happen when you come into the church.

42:55

So it's very, very rare and very unlikely that you're going to enter into a church that's already in a healthy situation.

43:01

Right. That's so true. There's something that's going to need attention and focus that's going to take a lot of your husband's time for sure, until things can find a balance there.

43:12

Right. Yeah. And I was just going to say at the beginning, it's going to be very heavy laden.

43:17

Yeah. And, but do understand that you probably will need to be out of your comfort zone until it gets to a place where it's more balanced and you can kind of start backing away from things.

43:32

Yeah. There's also such a thing as there's so many holes to fill, you don't know where to fill because you can't possibly do it all.

43:41

Right. Don't do it all. Don't just start suggesting to other ladies who are talking about it of, hey, you know, that's a great idea.

43:49

Why don't you volunteer for that? You know? Right. And things like that. Why don't you step into that and do that for us?

43:55

And that would be amazing. And if you just like pump it up, like it's this brilliant idea that they just had, then they're more apt to like, okay,

44:04

I think I could do that, you know? Because they're already halfway there. Right. Your relationship with your husband needs to be really healthy.

44:13

Amen. Definitely. So you're probably coming into a church that's not so healthy, but the two of you in your marriage, regardless of whatever your financial situation is.

44:22

Yes. If you've got debts because of his education or you're struggling just to stay in the black from month to month, those things, that's money.

44:31

Right. That's always gonna be a thing. Don't let that stress you out. Just focus on the two of you and the -

44:39

And Christ. Right. The relationship that you need to have built upon Christ. Amen. So you're focusing on Christ together.

44:44

Make sure your marriage is healthy. And it won't feel, it will not feel as calamitous as it sounds.

44:53

Right. If you have a solid marriage. So like I had said previously in the previous segment, while I was going through all of that, if there was big struggles at church, a major discipline issue, there was fighting over paint or something else like that,

45:10

I knew that I could always come home and there would be peace at home. It was not going from one area of trouble to another area of trouble.

45:18

Notice he doesn't say quiet. It was peaceful, doesn't mean it was quiet, yeah.

45:24

Of course, I may have been the one contributing to the noise. Probably. I get home and now the kids and I are running around shooting dart guns at each other.

45:33

Yeah, have that kind of healthy environment at home and it will help tremendously with many of the struggles you may end up having to face at church.

45:43

So number two, let's go to number two. I'm not gifted in the sense of teaching or leading groups such as the women's

45:50

Bible study, for example. I'm more on the introverted side and I do not wanna feel forced to do things that make me extremely uncomfortable and or unhappy.

46:00

I, of course, want to serve the church, but in a way that suits who I am.

46:06

And in parentheses, my husband and I both believe that as his wife, the expectation of me should be no different than any other normal member of the church.

46:15

However, I doubt that this will be the case. Well, you won't know for sure until you get there.

46:20

That's so true. And these are things too that you can talk about with a pastor search committee or whatever kind of ecclesiology this church might happen to have or polity rather.

46:33

So what kind of polity is it? Is it elder led? Is it going to be congregational?

46:41

I push toward the elder led model, but whatever sort of polity that you're entering into, whether you're talking with the elders that are there or you're talking with a pastor search committee or something like that, ask those questions.

46:54

What are your expectations of me? Now, your husband's gonna be the one having those interviews by himself in the very beginning, but there should hopefully be a stage where they want to talk to you.

47:07

Especially when, again, going back to the qualifications, for a pastor, if he must manage his own household well, they should talk to you.

47:15

Because they want to know how's the wife doing? Is he managing his own household well now?

47:22

Is she on board for him to be a pastor? Exactly. They do need to have those kinds of conversations with you at some point in that process.

47:29

So that's a good spot for you to ask of them, what are your expectations of the pastor's wife?

47:36

Now, when I became the senior pastor the first time, and I use that term very, very loosely because people understand what a senior pastor is.

47:45

I was the pastor. Yeah, there was only one. Right, and even here at Providence, there's three pastors.

47:52

There's me and Chris and Alan. So even though I might do the majority of the preaching, I'm not the head pastor.

47:59

We're all pastors and we all share that role together. So I'm using the senior pastor term in the sense that I wasn't the low guy anymore.

48:09

I was now the guy preaching and kind of leading the decisions for the church. So coming into that role,

48:15

I was following an empty nester. Right, right.

48:21

Who was an early bird. And an early guy, right. So he literally could do anything anybody asked him to do.

48:30

The only job he had was pastor. He had no kids at home.

48:36

I don't even think he had grandkids yet. No, not yet. Or if he did, they were still living out of state.

48:41

And so he could do anything for anybody. So there was an adjustment on the church's part for me coming in as well where I've got two kids and we're gonna have more, two very young children.

48:57

And so the church had to make a huge adjustment in that, okay, we're hiring a pastor that is not gonna be at our beck and call all the time like the previous pastor was.

49:08

There were some that did well with that and there were others that didn't do well with that. So even though the church understood that and we're like, okay, we understand that you're not an empty nester.

49:18

Your time at home is precious. Even though they said that, there still were. Yeah. There still were occasions where they expected more of my time than I could give.

49:28

So again, these are things that you can ask those questions about and kinda iron that out when you're in that search process.

49:37

Right. In that part of the process. And as the pastor's wife in that position, there were some groups.

49:48

I don't wanna call them study groups cause they weren't study groups, but they were groups of the church.

49:54

Ladies groups, yeah. That needed some revamping, some serious revamping.

49:59

We eventually just shut them down. Yeah. And so we did, we shut them down.

50:04

And then in order to get it started on the right foot again, I think it was like months, if not a year later, there was finally an interest again and asking and that sort of thing.

50:19

And anyway, to get it started on the right foot, I ended up teaching for a little bit of that.

50:25

Yeah, you did. It was very, very much out of my comfort zone because I'm still learning.

50:33

And so it was like, I don't, yeah, anyway. But it was just a short time.

50:41

And I felt very blessed by it that the ladies were patient with me and I was able to grow in my understanding of the word and everything so much faster because I was teaching.

50:55

And so that was, it was just a huge blessing, even though it was out of my comfort zone, even though I didn't wanna do it, even though everybody knew that because I was shaking like a leaf in front of them.

51:10

I remember that. It was still such a blessing. And in my relationship with Christ.

51:17

And so sometimes it's okay to just take the season as it is and be like, okay,

51:23

I'm gonna suck it up and just do it this, you know, just for however long God puts me here and then

51:30

I'll back out and be happy about that. And there was, even through that though, there was not an expectation of you to step into that role.

51:37

No, not at all. You were kind of pushing me more than anybody else was. Probably more so, yeah. But you were like, hey, let's get this going again.

51:45

I'm like, oh, okay. I'm more of the type of person who like I can add,

51:51

I can add bits and pieces, but like to teach and lead it is just not my comfort zone.

51:57

Now, as we're kind of sharing all of this, I know it probably sounds like that first church that I was a part of for a decade had more problems than anything else, but it was a great congregation.

52:09

Really was a great church. I mean, there were things that we had to work through because we had to establish an eldership, which

52:16

I did in my first three years as the senior pastor. By 2015, we had installed the first eldership in the 60 -year history of the church.

52:25

That took rewriting the constitution. And there were some people that pushed back on that. They didn't like the idea at all.

52:32

They didn't appreciate the polity because they had grown up Southern Baptist and we've never had elders before.

52:38

And so why are we doing this? So there was some pushback and therefore drama that resulted from that.

52:46

But we did have a solid base in that church. I never could have been able to do any of that without Dave and Vicki.

52:52

Oh, amen. I mean, they were incredible for us. We're still like really good friends with a lot of that congregation.

52:59

Some of that congregation happens to be in town right now as we're recording this. Yes, we're so excited. But that was the leader part of the congregation though.

53:07

Yeah, they came, they left right after we left. So yeah, ended up moving to West Texas.

53:16

Anyway, okay, so let's stay on focus here. Stay on task. We're rabbit trailing and we are going down memory lane as we're doing this here.

53:23

Yes, we are. So number three, I am also concerned that church won't feel like a safe place for me anymore.

53:30

Ah, yes. And instead of feeling comfortable, I will feel uncomfortable due to the pressure expectations, feeling like our family is under a microscope, et cetera.

53:40

And I don't wanna have this outlook every Sunday. Before reading the next part of that, I have not had that concern that our family has been under a microscope.

53:56

Maybe, I've been uncomfortable, like, I don't know, maybe less than a handful of times in the whole time that you've been a pastor and we've been married.

54:06

I mean, I know that people are gonna look at things. It's just like in the general sense of things, I'm not under the feeling that we're being -

54:14

Like unwelcome in our own church. Or even unjustly judged or anything like that. Yeah, I've never felt that we were unwelcome in our church.

54:23

It's never been that. But also that there's been like this nitpicky gossipy sort of surveying of what we're doing, always watching my kids.

54:34

And the moment one of my children does something wrong, then I'm gonna have to answer for it.

54:40

There was a series where we had like three couples in our church that was doing that. Yes.

54:45

But the general feel of the church was never that way. Yeah, it's always been like less than a handful of people at those times.

54:54

Yeah, like there were seasons of that. There were people that were the problem. But it wasn't the body at large.

55:01

It wasn't like the climate or the attitude of the church. I see what you're getting. Yes, I fully agree with that. And I think you're gonna,

55:08

I don't know, I think you would get that anywhere. Yeah, no matter what. Right. I mean, we've got a neighbor right now that's -

55:15

Yeah. Nitpicking stuff that's accusing us of things we didn't even do.

55:21

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, anywhere you go in any capacity, you might run into those kinds of things.

55:28

Yeah, of course. So, and of course it's gonna be, it feels more personal when it happens at church because you're thinking these are supposed to be my brothers and sisters in the

55:37

Lord. And here they're being so graceless when it comes to the way they nitpick every little thing

55:44

I do or don't do. So I understand coming into that, feeling that kind of hesitation, but again, don't make a judgment about the church before you actually get there and get to experience life with that church.

56:00

Right. So don't come in holding everybody at arm's length because you think that's going to happen. Right. And quite honestly,

56:07

I am very forthcoming on our children's good and bad behaviors.

56:12

And I ask people to tell me. Yes. Or even if it's necessary, correct our children in that moment, depending upon what it is, you know.

56:23

But if it's like a small child and he's doing something naughty, go ahead and correct him and then let me know about it.

56:30

I don't mind that I appreciate the extra hands and help, you know. And so it's actually been very helpful,

56:40

I think, in them being more comfortable with approaching me about a child's misbehaving or my child said this in class or, you know, because they say stuff in Sunday school and that sort of thing, that they feel more comfortable coming to me with those concerns and even the fun stuff, you know, like, oh, they said this and it was just lovely.

57:03

And I'm like, thank you for sharing that with me. Yeah. I love that. Because we've been working on that at home.

57:09

Yes, I'm glad it's finally showing. So now to see it's working, yeah. And just to be, just to put them at ease on, you know,

57:20

I'm more laid back, this is what I appreciate. I don't mind this and just laying it all out for them who are in charge of your children, especially.

57:31

Now you don't have to do that to everybody in the congregation, but definitely the people who are in charge of your kids and then it kind of trickles.

57:39

It has a trickle effect. And so everybody will understand, oh, okay. So I can grab this person who's running amok and take them to their parent and it's okay, you know.

57:51

I'm not gonna get in trouble for that. They're not gonna get in trouble for that. That also tends to be another unrealistic, you know, expectation and I don't wanna call it that, but that the people will have this.

58:03

Assumption. Yeah, assumption. Okay, maybe that, well, no, that's not what I'm looking for either. No? So here's what I'm getting at.

58:09

People will have this thing of like, well, yeah, the pastor's kid is the one that's causing the problem, but it's the pastor's kid.

58:15

I can't tell the pastor that their kid is having a problem. I can't correct the pastor's kid either. I can't correct the pastor's kid, right.

58:22

So that's what I mean. Unrealistic expectation may not be the term, but so yeah, having a good conversation with those people that are teaching your kids and telling them and saying, hey, if my child is acting up,

58:36

I wanna know that. Yes. So don't feel like you can't come tell the pastor. Right. I will discipline my child if I need to.

58:44

Right. And that also will help to put them at ease and kind of help build that relationship when they know, okay, the pastor's not walking around just going, my kids are perfect.

58:53

Right, yes. And we need to help him uphold the illusion. You know? Yes. Yeah.

59:03

Yeah, I just, I don't know what else to add to that. Well, let me - You said there's another part. Yeah, let me read the rest of number three.

59:09

So I love church and I fear this could cause me to instead dread the pressure of going to church with everyone's eyes on the pastor's wife slash family and losing the normalcy of the church.

59:21

Well, again, that's where I say, don't go in with that feeling. And -

59:26

Right. Yeah, you need to be open. You need to be willing to be friends, to be a brother and sister in the

59:34

Lord. Don't like throw up the walls and wait to see if somebody's gonna prove themselves to be a friend and then

59:41

I'll tear the wall down and kind of let you in. Because one of the requirements of a pastor is that he must be hospitable.

59:48

So 1 Timothy 3, two, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober -minded, self -controlled, respectable, hospitable.

59:58

So you're helping your husband in fulfilling those obligations as an overseer.

01:00:05

How is he showing himself to be respectable and hospitable to the people in the congregation?

01:00:11

The people in your church are helping you pay your bills. Yes. Yes, he's got a ministry calling and he's fulfilling that ministry calling, but the church is paying him as one who is worthy of double honor, 1

01:00:23

Timothy chapter five. So he's a worker who is worthy of his wages and it's the congregation that's supporting him in that.

01:00:30

So there really needs to be a real sense of appreciation and gratitude to those people who are putting food on your table.

01:00:40

Yes. And you're helping your husband meet those obligations of being respectable and hospitable to people in your church.

01:00:50

Yeah, I have nothing to add to that, amen. Yeah, which you've done well. I'm rooting you on.

01:00:56

That's right. So we've had small groups over here. When we were in Kansas, we had people at our house at least twice a week because we hosted the elders meetings.

01:01:09

Oh yeah. And then we had a small group that came and we fixed food for both. So I fed the elders and then we would feed our

01:01:18

Bible study that would come over as well. We moved to Texas and we did not, we actually hosted very little in our home.

01:01:25

We lived in a different kind of community where it was harder to do that anyway. Yeah. It just was a different sort of setup.

01:01:32

It was, it was very awkward to make it flow. Yeah. Like it didn't.

01:01:39

Outside of parties for the kids, we really didn't have a lot of, we didn't host a lot. No, but I think it's because of our community, honestly.

01:01:47

Cause it was hard to get into. Yeah. And then, yeah. And it was far enough away from town that it was just like, well, okay.

01:01:56

You know. We can meet with people that were in our community. Yes. We could go to the pool together. Yes. And that was, that was about it.

01:02:02

Yep. But now here we're back to regularly hosting, having friends over and things like that.

01:02:08

So that's been wonderful. So how can you do that? How can you facilitate those kinds of things? Opening your home up so that other people can come in and they see the way that you live and you're waiting on people, you're serving in that sense.

01:02:21

Those kinds of things too will help develop fellowships and a good rapport with one another in a big way.

01:02:26

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, babe. You're welcome. I'm telling you, thank you in the big picture, not just thank you for helping me answer this question, but thank you for all that you've been doing for the last 15 years.

01:02:39

You're welcome. So 15 years as a pastor, 10 years on this broadcast. Yeah. When August rolls around, we're celebrating both.

01:02:49

15 years as a pastor and 10 years on this podcast. 10 years. It doesn't feel like that long.

01:02:57

It doesn't, but it's been three states. It has been three states. That's what's crazy.

01:03:03

Yeah, right. I lived in Kansas my entire life up until you. Yep, I ruined it.

01:03:09

And you moved me out. That's right. No, you didn't ruin it. I wanted to go. I think she was more eager to go than I was.

01:03:16

Yes. I was perfectly content to stay there, but you pushed me into pastorate and then you pushed me into let's go to Texas and you pushed me into let's go to Arizona.

01:03:25

I did not push you into let's go to Texas. That's true. You didn't want to go to Texas. No. It was the state itself, not the church.

01:03:34

It was the state. She just. Definitely the state. Was not into moving to Texas. No, it's like I heard about Texas my entire life.

01:03:42

And the only place I wanted to move in high school was Dallas. And then I went there as an adult and I was like, what was

01:03:48

I thinking? You wanted to go to New York though. I did.

01:03:53

Yeah. I wanted to go to New York and have a great Dane and name him Toto. So when people asked me or told me you're not in Kansas anymore,

01:04:01

I can be like, well, Toto grew up. So here you go. No great Danes. Please.

01:04:07

I am not a big dog person. Yeah. No. No, you're not. Not a big dog person and not a big dog person.

01:04:16

It's true. All right. Well, we thank you guys for listening. Yeah. We were able to do the full hour this week.

01:04:25

Yep. Again. I was able to do the full hour. You were able to do the full hour. I'm so impressed. Yes. Like this is definitely a

01:04:31

Lord thing. I am too. Well done, babe. Thanks. Well, we kept your mind engaged. Yes. Because this question really was more for you.

01:04:39

And you didn't play some really sketchy people. See, I was under the impression that if I'm playing a clip of something that is really obnoxious that we've got to respond to that that's going to keep you engaged.

01:04:54

No, I kind of check out at that point. I'm done. I'm not talking about this anymore. I'll say my two words, my two cents and that's about it.

01:05:05

Right. Okay. Well, we thank you folks. Yes. Sorry, we keep rambling. Don't forget the videos on the

01:05:10

What Channel, WWUTT. And we thank you as always for listening. Hey, leave us a review.

01:05:16

Yeah. On whatever podcast app you use. Check that five stars, write a paragraph in there because it helps the algorithm.

01:05:25

Algorithms becoming a bigger and bigger thing now. Yes. I was actually just watching a video the other day that was talking about how subscriber count is becoming less and less significant because the way that either

01:05:38

YouTube or your podcast or whatever, the way that they're recommending podcasts is based on interest and the subscriber thing is becoming less and less significant.

01:05:51

Yeah. Now the way that a podcast app is set up, you're still gonna, you can still bring up your library but with like YouTube, it's recommending a ton of videos to you that aren't even in your subscriber list.

01:06:05

Yeah, so true. Yeah, the way that we balance the algorithm is to have more reviews.

01:06:11

If you talk about how it's a great Bible study program or something like that, then a person who is looking for a

01:06:17

Bible study, this is more likely to come up in their search. Yeah. And we appreciate it so much.