WWUTT 2495 Q&A Remember Lot's Wife, Michael Heiser's Realm, More On Mark Driscoll

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What did Jesus mean when he said remember Lot's wife? What are the problems with Michael Heizer's the unseen realm?

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And we're gonna touch on once again why Mark Driscoll is disqualified when we understand the text.

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This is when we understand the text a daily Bible study in God's Word that our hearts may be filled with his hope and peace

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Looking forward to the day of the Lord Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .utt

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.com Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Psalm 84

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How lovely are your dwelling places? Oh Yahweh of hosts My soul has longed and even fainted for the courts of Yahweh My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living

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God Even the bird has found a home and the swallow a nest for herself

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Where she sets her young at your altars. Oh Yahweh of hosts My king and my

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God How blessed are those who dwell in your house? They are ever praising you

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We love to come into the presence of God which we can do anytime we want through Jesus Christ Amen, but I have to love the heart of the sons of korah here who wrote this particular psalm

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The desire to want to be with the assembly the people of God as well Definitely praising

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God. So our encouragement to you is if you are not part of a sound church home We would encourage you to be you just can't replace the

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The fellowship that comes from being with the body of Christ. Amen It's such a joy and as is often said i'm not the first person to say this but you've probably heard many others say it as well

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Going to church is heaven practice Amen, it's like a small taste of what we're going to be doing forever in eternity

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Yes, and not just that worship service, but even the fellowship you'll have beforehand and after All in praise and service to God our king.

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Yes. I love psalms like this that remind me of that Me too, especially when we have such a blessed church body

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That we have and and the benefits that that fellowship has been to us Now some of our responsibilities to our church are the reason why you didn't hear from us for a whole week there

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Yeah, things just got really really busy. Yes, but we're still here. We're still fine Sometimes it just doesn't work out for me to put out a notice and say hey

02:38

Uh, sorry. Yeah things got behind things got busy. We just couldn't be on the air right now I'm gonna turn you i'm gonna turn you up a touch babe.

02:45

I think I got you down too soft. Oh, yeah How's that? I don't know check check I guess I mean

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I can hear myself more Maybe that's it. We didn't ever do a sound check before we started Anyway, but all those other responsibilities in addition to our kids being involved in everything.

03:00

Oh my goodness so many things It was just a lot. I could not that was an oversight on my part.

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Yeah, totally the same with me Yeah, the same thing. I did it was kind of like I did not schedule the stuff we had in the evenings

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Yeah, and i'm getting home from my day and going. Oh, yeah, we got a we still got a we got a soccer practice.

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Yeah We've got a a play practice Got worship practice worship practice. I mean, yeah all kinds of things going on stucco.

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Yeah, all sorts of things Our kids are getting older and getting into everything and I love it.

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I absolutely love this season of life Yeah, however, it does make for a very very busy season when those who are growing older and able to drive around a bit don't do

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We're speaking about our 17 year old daughter. Yes, uh, sweetheart in less than four months is going to be 18.

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Yeah, that's true So here in the next few days we're gonna have an 11 year old yes, she turns 11 on tuesday

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Yep, and I am teaching at the chapel service at her school. Yeah on tuesday, so Still trying to find ways.

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Uh, I can embarrass her a little bit when oh when we get there. It's so easy to do lately Embarrass her.

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Yes. She's gotten to the phase where like everything embarrasses her Okay, and so it's super easy just to get under her skin a little and make her uncomfortable

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And once you get there, you don't want to stop it's it's kind of fun Because she overreacts.

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Yeah She's one of those. Oh, yeah, your mom said she's a mini you.

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Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep But you're not you're not that way now. I didn't ever overreact

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Oh my goodness, you This is who you were. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. I was oh man.

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I mean, I guess I could needle you more than I do No I have zero but I have to sleep in the same bed with you.

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So Well, you don't have to I suppose That would be the result.

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I think if I uh, if I kept going Oh, that's funny She lets me play her outtakes at the end of the of the podcast

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I do i'm able to get away with that one, but I do not hear them ahead of time You don't know what they are until I don't until we go to church and somebody goes

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Oh that thing you did at the end was hilarious. You're like, I I don't remember. Thanks. Yeah Gabe played something that I did

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Well, we have a lot to catch up on since we missed a week we do yes i've got a bunch here Let's see. One, two, three, four

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Five maybe six. All right, let's knock them out We'll see if we can get to it as many as we can as as much as we can

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So this being the friday edition of the broadcast we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com

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Or go to Wwut .com Click on the voicemail tab. We're going to start with a few voicemails here.

06:01

What are you looking at? Why are you laughing? I'm giggling because I hear a little whimper at the door Dog, it's the dog

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Oh my goodness, okay, we're gonna play this voicemail you can go let the dog in while i'm doing this.

06:12

Okay, here we go Hi pastor gabe and becky My name is tara. I became aware of your ministry through two podcasts

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New age to new heart with doreen virtue and from the ladies at a word fitly spoken

06:26

Our family listens to your podcast daily and we are so grateful for your ministry My son will graduate from homeschool in june of 2026

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He plans to attend trade school for his career As a family we decided that he would delay his enrollment in trade school to allow for around 12 to 18 months of dedicated time to study theology

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We came to this decision after watching so many young men and women sadly Walk away from god once they went to college or when they began working out in the world

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So my question is this what books and teachers would you recommend for a do -it -yourself theology study for a young man in addition to your ministry

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We also listen to dave jenkins and justin peters and voddie bockham

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Do you have a preferred men's study bible? We use the nkjv translation and our wonderful church uses the esb

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We are looking for both free resources if possible and are also saving money now

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So that we can add books to our homeschool library before next summer It is so important that we give our son the very best foundation possible

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Thank you so much for any suggestions that you may have and we are praying for all of you That is such a wonderful message.

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That is awesome. Thank you. Tara. Yeah our 17 year old We were just talking about graduates in june as well may may is it may it's the very very end of may

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Okay, yes, it is still may right So what would I recommend actually when I was listening to that message?

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It was like right in the middle right in the center of it where you were saying Do you have a recommended or who who is it that he can study?

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and Automatically, I was going sproll. Oh, yeah, definitely study rc sproll.

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Yes, so read his entire book series Like all of it.

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Yeah, exactly go through his and he has um kid ones, too Um, um, what do you call that?

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Like the I don't know you're talking about the kids books. Yeah, the illustrated kids books. Yes Well, he's graduating high school.

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No, no, no, no, I meant she's trying to like build up her library. So yeah Okay. Yeah, I recommend even those so uh, yeah other younger kids.

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I'm thinking Spectrum, I got the whole spectrum, right? So those books are great, too.

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Yes, but yeah, I mean sprawls entire corpus. That's the word that comes to mind. So His library he's got a lot watching the sermons and the lectures that he's got on youtube

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I mean you're gonna feel like you're attending seminary level Classes when you're watching sprawl, it's not watching his sermons

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You're watching, you know with that blackboard behind him, right? It's like sitting in on those courses that he's done for decades.

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Yes And what a great benefit to have that library and access to all of that online

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So I would highly recommend just going through all of sprawl's stuff You've already mentioned bockham and justin peters.

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Very great monergism monergism .org Has some good stuff going through um

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Anything on ligonier, you know ligonier site I heard uh, some I just heard this testimony recently

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Somebody said that after they graduated high school and they were trying to figure out where to go next Somebody as a graduation gift gave them a subscription to table talk magazine.

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Oh, yeah That's a good one, which comes out of ligonier so that's like very Brief, but it's a monthly sort of subscription where you got all the theology articles that come with that in addition to the daily devotions

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That's what I was gonna say. You're gonna mention that. Yeah, which you can do as a family Yeah, that might be something to add to your family

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You know, I feel like i'm kind of just praising mostly of ligonier But i'm also thinking of who you've also connected yourself with and Have been learning from them.

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So that's the first place my mind goes when it comes to what's some good prep before going to Seminary or college something that's theology level courses

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What sprawls teaching is is great. I think she's um saying that he's going to trade school.

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So it's it's more like um, Oh, I know Okay, yeah, so he's got a specific sort of field that he's going to go into to learn this trade right

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But they're going to give him a year of theology So as you're thinking of that in terms of like college level courses, oh,

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I see. Yeah Okay, that's that's where I think sprawl is such a great benefit and I think um learning the history of the church would help too

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Which is robert godfrey from ligonier. Awesome, and he's got that history of the church series

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That's good to go through but in addition to that So not just watching videos if you look up the book church history in plain language

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By bruce shelley i've been told that's the best church history book. Oh cool i've not read a lot of them because I don't want to just go through library of church history stuff, but That one's a great book and hang on.

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I got this one over here by needham Right there. I don't have my glasses on hang on Two thousand years of there it is christ's power.

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Yeah, two thousand years of christ's power by nick needham So this one's also, uh, very good.

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It's a five volume set. So it's a little bit longer than bruce. Shelley's Are you taking a picture of it?

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I am there you go But that's a good study as well if you're getting the church history side of it

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All right. Anything else anything else to add? Um I mean, it just depends on on What he finds interesting and What you value most so is it like traditions?

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Is it? The learning about church history. Is it? What's to come is it?

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Jesus's life is it? Just to take a year Yeah, right.

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We we got to think of this in terms of it's just a year. It's just a year Yeah, so I mean you can start something and that way he can continue it as he goes to trade school

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So there's always that yeah, um, but definitely focus on developing habits now, right?

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So that way he's able to keep that up. Well, you mentioned a men's study bible. I don't know a men's study bible.

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I I have a lot of study bibles Yeah, you do the english standard version study bible is really good one that I just started getting into Is the king james study bible that's put out by reformation heritage

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And I think that's edited by joel beakey Okay, so that is a great study bible and one of the things

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I was actually doing It was when I was in my jeremiah study So i'm doing the jeremiah study on thursday on the podcast and there was something in jeremiah where I was like, well

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I don't know how to outline this let me go to Macarthur's bible and see how he outlined it because he sometimes has great outlines in his bible

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Well, he didn't outline that section. I was disappointed Like usually I can rely.

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Yeah, I can rely on john macarthur's notes and he gives me a good outline But he didn't outline that section. I went to the king james study bible

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And there they had it. Oh, so I was like, oh, that's great. So sorry Sorry, macarthur had to go to joel beakey on that one, but that's a great study bible

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I don't know that I know of a study bible that that is men's intensive at least one that I could recommend

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That I would be comfortable with saying yeah, I don't know Here's a good study bible for men just studying theology and learning to be christ -like it's going to teach him to be a man of god

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Amen, so but glad you and your husband are mindful of these things and the encouragement that you've provided for your son and godspeed to him as he finishes up high school and takes that year of Theology intensive.

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Yes. All right. This next next voicemail comes from nelly Hello, I have a question about luke chapter 17 verse 32 if I said it correctly about this part saying

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Remember lad's wife. What is what does that mean? I just want to be

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Very careful what i'm doing my life You know, I want to do it for all of the glory for for for the lord

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Please help me. I've been Dealing with this problem Well, thank you nelly for your question.

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It sounds like you're really struggling with something So we're going to pray for you here in a moment after answering your question

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But luke 17 is where jesus talks about the coming of the kingdom. I did this lesson in luke a few weeks back

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He was asked by the pharisees when the kingdom of god would come and jesus answered them The kingdom of god is not coming in ways that can be observed

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Nor will they say look here it is or there for behold the kingdom of god is in the midst of you

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It's not in a geographic location But it's in the hearts of those who are followers of jesus christ

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And so then jesus turns to the disciples and says to them The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the son of man

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And you will not see it and they will say to you look there or look here Do not go out or follow them for as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other

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So will the son of man be in his day? But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation

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Just as it was in the days of noah So will it be in the days of the son of man? They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage

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Until the day when noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all Likewise, just as it was in the days of lot

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They were eating and drinking buying and selling planting and building but on the day when lot went out from sodom

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Fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all So will it be on the day when the son of man is revealed on that day?

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Let the one who was on the housetop with his goods in the house not come down to take them away And likewise let the one who was in the field not turn back remember lot's wife

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Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life will keep it I tell you in that night there will be two in one bed one will be taken in the other left

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There will be two women grinding together One will be taken in the other left and they will say to him where lord and he said to them

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Where the corpse is there the vultures will gather So in the context of that verse specifically remember lot's wife consider again what jesus said about the destruction that came upon Sodom and gomorrah the wrath of god fire from heaven that we read about in genesis chapter 19

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He says there that uh that on the day that lot went out from sodom Fire and sulfur rain from heaven and destroyed them all

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So will it be on the day when the son of man is revealed what happened?

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When lot and his family which included his two daughters and his wife Fled sodom and they were heading to zoar.

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What happened? Uh, his wife stopped and looked back right and disobeying the order that was given to them

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Not to look back and she looked back. Anyway, right why why did she look back?

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Because she wanted to see the wrath of god coming down on the city where she lived I think it was more of remembering like oh we had it so good there

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Or maybe she was wrapped up in her own sin that she missed her heart was longing for Yeah, the place that god was bringing judgment upon.

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Yeah And she wanted to go back there, right? That's why she turned around and looked

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Her heart was for sodom. She was not Thankful to god that we're being delivered out of this, right?

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Her heart was still in the in the place of destruction. She would still much rather have had the sins of that place

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Than deliverance from god himself, which is why she was destroyed with it. Yes, exactly

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So as jesus is promising judgment here as he's talking about this with his disciples that That he says to them his warning to them is remember lot's wife

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Don't look back Don't long for those things that god has delivered you from But continue to seek the lord hold fast to christ

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Now if you find yourself sinning if you find yourself going back to those things that your flesh desires

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That doesn't mean you're now condemned You're you're turning into a pillar of salt, right?

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But rather understand The grace of god as it's described for us in romans chapter two

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Do you not know? That god's kindness and forbearance and patience

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Is meant to lead you to repentance The reason why you're not dead yet The reason why you haven't been turned over to your own depravity is because god is being gracious with you

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Turn from those cravings and those desires to christ focus on christ love christ cling to christ

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When you're feeling those those yearnings in your heart for either the stuff of your flesh or the things of this world

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It's especially in those circumstances That you turn those desires and everything your heart wants over to christ.

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Yeah That he would be your heart's desire. Yeah, or he may lift his hand from you Yeah, that's you're not saved exactly that that's the scary thing yeah is just as we read about in romans one so in romans two

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His kindness meant to lead you to repentance in romans one those who have loved their sin and were not thankful to god

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He turned over to a depraved mind to be consumed by their passions. Yeah And may it may it be far from us that that day would ever come upon us

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To tear us away from god that your your desire would no longer be for god at all Because I know that the desire of my flesh is contrary to god and the spirit's not going to let me have it

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So i'm going to go after my sin instead right and that's why those three words

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In luke 1732 are such a powerful reminder to us even today who are dwelling among sodom and gomorrah today

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Remember lot's wife. Yeah, don't look back Look to christ and we will be delivered on that day of judgment

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We will not perish as john 3 16 says but we will have Everlasting life.

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Amen. Let me take a moment here and we'll pray for nelly before going to our next voicemail

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Okay, heavenly father. I don't know what it is that's going on in nelly's life

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But it obviously scares her the the things that her flesh wants The desire that she may have for this world, whatever it might be there's something fearful in her voice

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She's afraid that Her longing for that is is going to make her lose god

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Lord, I pray that your loving hands are on her It's it's obvious here that she is truly convicted of heart and that is a work of the holy spirit

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And may she follow that conviction through turning from her sin to the lord. Jesus christ

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And she will never look back at those things that her flesh craves but her love and her longing would be for christ we are always going to be battling with things in our flesh until We get to the end until we are are perfected on that day and step into glory

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As the apostle paul says in romans chapter 7 wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death

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Praise be to god Who gives us the victory through jesus christ our lord

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And may you grant nelly that victory over this trial that she is going through And and find it in jesus name.

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It is in his name that we pray. Amen Amen, let's go on to this next question from adrian.

22:06

Hey pastor. Gabe. This is adrian Um recently I was asked to perform a wedding for a couple.

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That's not a part of my congregation um, the couple lives in a another state, but they were just looking for someone who could perform a ceremony for them

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Uh, because they couldn't find anybody else. But anyway, um, I asked a few questions I asked about their faith background

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They said they were christians um, but Uh, I after probing a little deeper it came out that they have been living together

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Even though they said they're christians. They said they wanted to do the right thing by getting married And when I suggested they you know

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I couldn't do that unless they were living uh separately Um, she basically right that I was talking to shut the conversation down and said

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I can't believe i'm being uh denied the ability to Do the right thing, but I respect your decision

23:03

My question is was I being too harsh? Too forward in my uh questioning.

23:10

Uh, just let me know Thanks. Thanks for your question adrian Well, she wasn't being denied the opportunity to do the right thing.

23:17

You were telling her to do the right thing Absolutely that they needed to they needed to move out instead of being with one another they needed to demonstrate that they

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Were more committed to christ than they were to their sin, right? And because she said oh you're going to add a caveat to this you're going to add qualifications and requirements

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And was upset at you for that. I think you did the right thing there. Yes Now sometimes you know,

23:42

I get the quandary of okay, they're living in sin if I just marry them Then they won't be sinning anymore

23:48

Yada, yada, right exactly. However in a woman's mind She may think that she's doing the right thing but she will always have in the back of her mind the question of Is he going to be faithful to me?

24:01

Is he going to leave me? Is he you know, does he respect me in these ways? What about the guy in this scenario?

24:07

Yeah, and um, and so she's always going to question that but If they respect that and he respects her and she respects him enough that they move apart if he's leading

24:19

Just like he should be doing right Just you know until they're married Which usually isn't very long so he can just like buddy up with a friend or something

24:28

Yeah, and then move back in together when after they're married, right? then it shows to her and proves to her that that he is going to be respectful that he he does adore her and Cherish her for the long haul like this is worth it because it's just a short time without And um without living together

24:47

Yeah, and it does, you know show the commitment to christ as far as This we want to honor god.

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And yeah, and while we're We want to do the right thing. We we need to step back right now not

25:02

Later. Yeah Right You honor god with your bodies now

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Yes, that's first corinthians chapter six where where the apostle paul says flee from sexual immorality

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Flee from sexual immorality is right now right now right now flee from it Not go through a five -step process not go through a program.

25:22

Yeah, you get away from sexual. Yes Right and I and any time that i've given talks on that even there's a what video where we talk about Yep regarding porn stop looking at porn.

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You can stop. You just don't want to The number one pushback that I get to that is

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I can't I can't do it Everything that i've tried to do I can't stop. Yes, you can you can stop doing it you can

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Stop clicking your mouse to go on to the next thing. You can do it You are not under the control of something else to such a degree that you

25:56

Lack the ability to stop it's almost like saying the devil made me do it. Yeah I don't i'm not under control here.

26:02

The devil made me do it. You can quit any time muscle memory even yeah Put some barriers in between you and those sites now when it comes to Changing your thinking transforming your mind because you probably have a rolodex of images and things like that going through your head

26:18

Yeah, that kind of healing is going to take some time But to stop doing the sin you can stop it right now

26:25

And it sounds like you gave that ultimatum to this young woman and she just simply didn't want to do it

26:31

Yeah, she thought that doing the right thing was getting married when doing the right thing right now

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Was stop sleeping together. Yeah stop fornicating together until The vows are said and before the lord we are now in that one flesh union

26:46

And and so I think that you did the right thing there you put a single test the hard thing You did the hard thing that's right you did you put a single test question out in front of her

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Just to see if she was genuine in her Desire to want to honor god

27:02

It's kind of like what you exposed was more of a superstitious belief than it was A true belief in christ, you know what

27:09

I mean? Yeah, if we're just married then we honor god Not I honor god with my body right now.

27:16

Yeah Exactly so I think I think you did good there adrian also when being called out on a sin

27:23

Usually the first reaction is yeah. No true So we do have that tendency you you can still pray for them and maybe check in back with them if you wanted to I don't know if you if it's this type of circumstance that that would work out but um, if you're able to then go ahead and check in with them and and see

27:46

You know, like have you thought about this have you have you considered why I said this and why your reaction was like this

27:53

Maybe maybe it's convicting Yeah, maybe the conviction goes far enough where now she's thought about it and is like, okay.

28:01

Yeah He's got a point or go ahead and move out because this isn't gonna work

28:07

Could be that as well, you know The remainder of the questions that we have come via email.

28:12

So once again, you can email us to Send an email send an email question to when we understand the text at gmail .com

28:19

We had the dog interrupt us earlier. So I don't remember if I got all the way through this or go to wwutt .com

28:27

and click on the voicemail tab and you can record a voicemail either from your phone or your computer

28:33

And we thank everybody for the voicemails that they sent to us today. Yeah, this question comes from norma gene

28:41

And she says dear pastor gabe, I hope this finds you and becky well, oh, thank you she is doing well this week

28:49

Yes, I am. Praise the lord I wanted to take a moment to thank you sincerely for your podcast and the ministry of when we understand the text

28:59

Your expository teaching and clear biblical insight have been a tremendous blessing in my walk with christ

29:05

I've been listening since 2021 Oh, wow in a time when sound doctrine can be hard to come by your commitment to faithfully teaching

29:14

God's word is both refreshing and encouraging The way you explain scripture straightforward honest and rooted in truth has helped me grow in understanding

29:24

And has deepened my love for the lord in his word I wanted to thank you for your teaching on the book of mark, which

29:31

I just finished listening to I'm currently about a year behind your most recent podcast episodes because back in 2022

29:38

I went all the way back three years as far as apple podcast would let me go And i've been working my way forward since then learning and growing along the way.

29:47

Oh, that's awesome I had a I had to laugh when you described mark's writing style. It really is less detailed than matthew

29:55

Just as you said while listening I started to picture it like a movie the opening chapter felt like a trailer

30:01

The middle was packed with action almost like it was trying to cram everything into a two -hour film And mark chapter 16 verse 20 struck me as the director's creative way to set up a sequel.

30:12

Lol I love it I have now started listening to luke and look forward to my time in the word with your podcast and the lord by my side

30:22

Thank you for being a faithful servant of the gospel And I pray that the lord continues to bless you your family and your ministry as you labor for his glory

30:30

Uh, thank you so much norma, we always appreciate those encouraging messages like that Yes, definitely lets me know that i'm doing more than talking to a wall

30:40

Because quite literally I have a wall in front of me or on fridays when you talk to your wife. That's right My bride next to me here so one of the things that i've been able to accomplish even in that week off that I just took is

30:54

I Finished the setup that I was doing in my office at the church And I already have episodes recorded into next week.

31:02

Yes now i've got two locations I can record from I can stay ahead Yeah, so so some other questions that I had lately.

31:09

I didn't pull one of these emails up, but I had uh, Several people ask me when is the podcast here the word of the lord going to resume?

31:16

And yeah, as you've noticed the busy season we're in that was the one that got dropped I I made it all the way up to the episodes that i'd recorded far enough ahead

31:26

Yeah, and then I couldn't stay ahead So that one got dropped i'm gonna my goal is to start it up again on november 1st

31:34

Nice, so that's the aim to keep things consistent I record that podcast here at home

31:41

And then the other ones the bible study podcast will be done at my office at the church So that the sound of here the word of the lord is is remaining consistent right the whole time

31:51

So because that one's going to be it's going to be added to like bible reading apps and stuff like that so I need to keep the

31:57

The the vocalization is consistent in its quality as possible. Yeah Not an echoey room, right?

32:04

Not exactly And my office is not I got this I got the sound dampened enough, but it's still you know, it's a different room

32:10

So there there are some variations to it that aren't aren't quite the same as this one. Yeah. Anyway, i'm nitpicky

32:16

You are yeah, which you know, it comes in handy Next question comes from neil in kentucky pastor gabe.

32:25

I'm praying that god continues blessing the hughes family Oh, thank you as well as your ministry.

32:30

We are indeed blessed. Thank you I have a question about the book and documentary the unseen realm

32:36

Recovering the supernatural worldview of the bible by dr. Michael heiser Someone gave me a copy of the q a companion book by douglas van dorn

32:47

The sections concerning sons of god Was confusing and somewhat troublesome for me

32:53

I didn't know if you were familiar with this book or not any clarification would be helpful We are so blessed by your teaching and preaching ministries.

32:59

Thank you so much peace and grace Thank you neil Well, I have read some of the unseen realm not all of it.

33:08

Also heiser's books on demons I think that's the name of the book. It's just demons Okay, and his book on angels, which is again just the name of the book

33:17

So there are three books from heiser that i've read partway through I haven't read all of them

33:23

I want to direct you though to my friend fred butler Yes, who just recently went through all of the unseen realm

33:31

And he did a series on that book and heiser's teaching on the elohim or the sons of god

33:39

He covered all of that in his blog hip and thigh So i'm going to link to that series

33:45

I'm going to send it to neil and then you'll also find a link to that series in the show notes of this particular

33:51

Broadcast if anybody else is looking for it. Yeah, the stuff is very very prevalent out there

33:56

Heiser stuff really gets around I run into it all the time doug van dorn now that heiser's passed away

34:03

It's kind of like he's picked up the mantle and he's running with it I do not think their exposition on the bible is accurate.

34:09

I don't think it's good but just to kind of give you a Uh, let me give you a brief

34:17

Summary of some of these things according to fred So i'm going to read fred's words here from his blog

34:22

Just kind of summarize the problems with what it is that that heiser Lays out concerning the elohim or the sons of god his exposition of psalm 82

34:31

It's kind of like he and i've said this about heiser before it's almost like he reads psalm 82

34:37

And he has his own version of what's being said in psalm 82 And then he reads that into the rest of the bible and according to the english standard version of psalm 82 it says

34:49

God has taken his place in the divine council now in the in the legacy standard

34:55

It says god has taken his place in god's congregation okay, so, uh anyway in the midst of the gods he holds judgment and Heiser has his own view on what the divine council is

35:07

And then he reads that into everything else everything about like the spiritual realm that we read about in the bible heiser's

35:15

Heiser is working out from psalm 82 into everything else. Okay, if that makes sense So he has his own viewpoint on what that's supposed to look like And so it then applies to the rest of the bible.

35:26

Yes. Okay, and it's not It's not strictly heiser's view and a lot of people will have the view of heiser that he came up with all of this

35:33

Oh, he's such a revolutionary because he came up with this stuff Well, he's drawing from stuff that heretics were saying a hundred years ago

35:42

So it's it's not new. He's just now trying to put a more orthodox spin on it.

35:48

Yeah, exactly So anyway, here's what uh, here's what butler says heiser is heavily and I mean heavily dependent upon higher critical scholarship regarding Ancient near eastern mythology and old testament research a person reading the bibliography of the unseen realm

36:05

Will never find him citing or referencing any conservative evangelical scholar especially favorably

36:12

A lot of that has to do with the fact that he despises them and thinks they are a joke

36:18

And he is quite smug about it as well I've picked that up from interviews that i've watched with heiser

36:24

Like he just kind of has this i'm above their exposition their expository apologetics

36:32

Anyway, and then i'm giving him a more royal voice than he actually has But heiser relies on the european higher critics because they are the largest body of researchers and writers

36:43

Who believe and teach his chosen take on the divine council and there is a reason for that they reject divine inspiration

36:51

And treat the old testament like mythology Heiser has essentially bootlegged their research and baptized it with his quasi conservative charismatic adjacent point of view and presents it to Undiscerning biblically illiterate christians as a deep and profound insight to the spirit realm

37:12

In a way it is like an ivory tower academic version of the health and wealth preachers who talk about their personal visits to heaven

37:20

Or encounters with angels that none of the normie christians ever experience

37:25

The higher critics always maintained what can only be described as a ridiculous theological evolution of ancient religions primitive goat herding societies in the middle east several thousand years ago

37:38

Gradually developed a monotheistic view of a singular all -powerful deity from a superstitious

37:45

Polytheistic belief system where many powerful deities fight each other for dominance

37:50

In 1928 after the ugaritic texts were discovered that speak of a divine council with a god named l

37:58

Sitting at the top the polytheism to monotheism view of religion only solidified among these unbelieving bible -denying critics

38:07

They debated whether or not israel borrowed from the cosmology of their ane neighbors and declared yahweh to be

38:15

And the head of the divine council to heiser's credit. He rejects their evolutionary view of religion

38:21

But still relies on their so -called research for his spiritual unseen realm view of a pantheon of elohims

38:30

That can become problematic coupled with his anemic theology of god as i've pointed out previously and that would be in previous articles

38:38

Jesus the only begotten son of god is pictured as another elohim Among a council of several for instance so that kind of details a little bit of the problem with Heiser's theology his doctrine when he is expounding upon the concept of the elohim or the sons of god

38:59

As you would ask about the top. Yeah, right, right So anyway, I appreciate your question neil and like I said, i'll link to those articles for you

39:06

And I hope that you'll find them beneficial And they will give you some insight and some warning

39:12

Because you're no doubt going to have people that will come in And be saying some things

39:17

Yeah that are going to sound like This person's been influenced by heiser, right? I had this happen a few years ago when one of my sunday school teachers

39:26

I found out he did not stick with the assigned material for that sunday

39:32

He wasn't one of my regular sunday school teachers He was filling in but he didn't stick with the material that he was assigned

39:37

And when I heard from the class the things that he was talking about He didn't tell me this but just people in the class

39:44

Oh, he was talking about like like, uh, the council the divine council or something as soon as they said that I was like Oh my goodness.

39:51

He's been influenced by heiser And so I had to take him out to lunch and had a conversation with him

39:56

Like if you want to make this a hobby of yours I'm, not going to tell you not to though.

40:02

I have my own hesitations with heiser I didn't know enough about him at the time. I just knew like the signs Yeah, if somebody's talking this way, they're influenced by michael heiser

40:10

But I said if you're going to make that a hobby horse, that's fine. You can't bring it into the teaching The teaching has to remain what we've approved as the teaching for the sunday school classes what the elders have said are okay

40:21

Not what what your hobby horses are that week, right? So Anyway, yeah, you you are going to encounter this and no doubt if you are

40:30

Uh, if you're part of a good solid church, even in a solid church, it's somebody's still going to come in Yeah with some sort of influence by michael heiser.

40:39

It happens all the time. I hear it regularly Uh, all right. Let me see where i'm at in my order of emails

40:47

This next one comes from ryan. Here we go Hello, pastor. Gabe. Let me look at my clock.

40:52

See how long I got I greatly enjoy listening to your q a podcast every week and I find myself almost always in agreement with your takes

41:00

Awesome, well, I appreciate that and it is for that reason that I wanted to ask about your comments on mark driscoll

41:06

You weren't here for this one. This was two weeks ago. So so I had to I had to catch becky up on what she missed before she jumped on to this podcast and I said well in the last one

41:17

I talked about mark driscoll and jelly roll and I said Well now i'm wanting to donate

41:23

She started laughing and she's like is that a person a jelly roll? So anyway,

41:30

I still want a donut Continuing on ryan says to be clear.

41:38

I don't have a dog in the fight I don't go to his church and I don't follow him I don't follow him anymore to see an occasion other than seeing an occasional x -post that he might make

41:46

But i'd like to understand why you're so adamant that he is lying About what was happening in his fall from grace at mars hill at this point

41:56

It's basically he said he said But if and I realize this is a big if mark is telling the truth that they were planning to falsely accuse him of adultery

42:05

Then wouldn't it have been the right thing for him to do by just leaving? Why would one stay and face church discipline by people who would so egregiously lie about you like that?

42:17

I'm, not saying he shouldn't have been under church discipline But once the leaders are willing to lie about About you like that.

42:25

I think you have zero obligation to stay So I have two questions for you number one

42:30

Why are you so confident he's lying about what happened? Of course the leadership of mars hill at that time would say he's lying

42:36

I wouldn't expect them to own up to the nuclear option. They were holding over him Even if it was true number two if he isn't lying then do you agree?

42:44

He did the right thing by leaving despite the need for him to be under church discipline Thank you for your great work god bless so the the statement that I made last week with regarding driscoll and his his uh

42:59

Resistance to church discipline instead of being disciplined. He just up and left mars hill And he really did just leave he left and abandoned his post.

43:09

Yeah, and just left a message of like hey i'm gone His church didn't get the chance to say goodbye

43:16

There was there was nothing in there was there even a dear john letter kind of thing? Yeah, that's all it was right.

43:21

It was just kind of a dear john letter and he was gone Okay, he this is a pastor who abandoned his post

43:28

And and what I said last last week two weeks ago Is that there were dozens and dozens of witnesses about his conduct?

43:39

on more than one panel They there were his elders There were former pastors

43:45

There was the axe 29 network and these were not just outside strangers many of these people were hand -picked by mark driscoll

43:56

And so no matter like the pushback on this that have come from people that have said well axe 29 is so soft and effeminate

44:02

Today and whatever. Okay, fine. Then that's driscoll's fault Yeah, even if you want to say that that's what axe 29 has become

44:10

They were the people that he chose and he selected he would still be at fault So these people that he had appointed to these positions even pastors that he had appointed to these mars hill branches

44:22

They all testified to his egregious abuse And really if we if we're all looking at this situation and we're looking at those who have accused mark driscoll as the ones being soft

44:34

We're actually the ones that are soft Mm -hmm Because we have not taken seriously the qualifications

44:42

For an elder that are given to us in scripture, right? He must be gentle not quarrelsome

44:50

And that does not describe mark driscoll So again, you have dozens of witnesses and and and I still didn't set this up, right?

44:59

But the statement that I made I there was a reason why in that video and in what I said two weeks ago

45:05

That I made the comment about Driscoll that you cannot bring a charge against the an elder except by the evidence of two or three witnesses first timothy chapter five

45:14

Right, and he had dozens and dozens, but he mark driscoll could not produce one

45:21

Has never produced a single witness On his side on his side to vouch for him or anything that he has said the only thing that he has gone by Is god told me

45:33

That's the only thing he has said so his claim is god is on my side and against all these other people and that is

45:44

Blasphemous. It's vanity. He's taking the lord's name in vain When he does not have to submit to The charges that have been brought against him credibly the charges are credible

45:56

I mean you can look at driscoll and you can see you can see what kind of a narcissistic arrogant blowhard he is

46:04

And see that this man was not willing to submit to any kind of authority over him

46:11

Like there was there's even audio out there I wouldn't be able to find this just right at the drop of a hat but there's audio out there of driscoll saying

46:18

That he doesn't have to submit to the authority of anybody who doesn't have a platform as large as his

46:26

Oh, okay. So who does that leave? I mean, that's him saying that he has a higher authority than even the rest of his elders because his platform is bigger

46:34

Yeah, that's crazy. That's extremely arrogant He is not even in submission to the instructions and the requirements that have been given

46:43

Of an elder according to god's word. He's not even submissive submissive to god's word

46:49

We've noticed that right and this continual thing of him saying god told me this is not a new thing it's not even just related to his

46:58

Leaving mars hill and starting this new church in phoenix. He's he's always relied on god told me theology

47:05

Or god told me authority God told me so therefore everything that I say is from god and you can't say otherwise, right?

47:14

So furthermore like you were talking about how do we know that the other elders? What if they were just coming up with this plot?

47:19

What if they were actually trying to deceive him and destroy him? and and that was

47:24

What mark was escaping from? Well, if you go back to that story that I shared and even the video that I did on driscoll

47:32

Which I released a little over a week ago If you go back to those videos and you listen to driscoll's, uh testament the story that he tells where he says that God told me a trap was set and then

47:45

I went to them and I talked to them and they said oh, yeah We were going to do the nuclear option where we were going to accuse you of adultery

47:51

Even though you weren't guilty of it driscoll apparently has this power Where he can just elicit a confession out of somebody

48:00

Just by saying that god told me this and then suddenly they just fess up to it. I have never heard of this

48:07

Of anybody just being able to do this but driscoll apparently has this power to do it and it's all according to his own stories

48:13

It's not according to anybody else's testimony. No witness. No witnesses It's just him saying that I went and asked him and yeah, they confessed

48:22

Interesting. Let me play you a video where this is years before Okay, let's go back even more than a decade and listen to this story that he told

48:30

I see things uh, like I was meeting with one person and they They didn't know this but they were abused when they were a child and I said when you were a child

48:38

You were abused this person did this to you physically touched you this way. He said, how do you know? I said, I don't know.

48:44

It's like I got a TV right here and i'm seeing it I said no that never happened.

48:50

I said go ask him Go ask him if they actually did what I think they did and I see that they did And they went and asked this person when

48:55

I was a little kid. Did you do this? And the person said yeah, but you were only like a year or two old.

49:02

How do you remember that? They said oh pastor mark told me Okay, i'm not a guru.

49:07

I'm not a freak. I don't talk about this If I did talk about it, everybody would want to meet with me and i'd end up like one of those guys on tv

49:13

I'm, sorry what now I don't talk about this What are you doing?

49:22

Oh my goodness, oh, yeah, I don't talk about this he's talking about it in front of his church.

49:29

Oh my god Everybody be lining up to get their fortunes read and so that's why

49:34

I don't talk about this Right, but yeah, so he tells he tells this person you were abused at this age.

49:39

Go ask the person who abused you Oh, yeah, I did it Yeah Who and that's not the only time he keeps going he has other instances of exactly this

49:49

Oh as we continue on now, he's talking about this is his description of what he believes the gift of discernment is

49:57

That he has like this television film reel that just kind of appears in front of his eyes And he can see what happened in secret because the holy spirit gives him these visions

50:08

To be able to do this again. It's the whole god told me Theology that he operates under but some of you have

50:14

This visual ability to see things Uh, there was one woman I dealt with she'd never told her husband that She had committed adultery on him early in the relationship

50:26

Okay. Now before I keep going This gets kind of graphic And he's saying this to his church.

50:33

I'm i'm already covering my eyes. I'm like don't don't go into details about what you saw I said, you know she's sitting there with her husband.

50:40

I said, you know, I think the root of all this I think Satan has a foothold in your life because you've never Told your husband about that really tall blonde guy that you met at the bar

50:47

And then you went back to the hotel and you laid on your back and you undressed yourself and he climbed on top of you and you had sex with him and Snuggled up with him for a while and deep down in your heart

50:57

Even though you had just met him you desired him because secretly he is the fantasy body type

51:05

I said you remember that place. It was that cheap hotel with that certain colored bedspread

51:10

You did you had sex with the light on because you weren't ashamed and you wanted him to see you You wanted to see him.

51:16

She's just looking at me like I said, you know, it's about 10 years ago see everything

51:24

Sounds like he's describing a smut novel or something Yeah She says she looks at her husband.

51:32

He says is that true she says Yeah Yeah, so she just admits it. She just confesses, right?

51:39

Yeah, no, and he's got other he keeps going with this. This is not Typical Human behavior.

51:48

No, it's not at all. It's crazy and and he's lying here. This is lying They they all react the same way exactly it he's the hero in all of these stories, right all these stories

51:59

He tells he's either the victim or the hero and he's the victim so he can be the hero Just like the instance with they were going to nuclear option me at mars hill

52:09

I'm the victim so I escaped because i'm the hero. I'm the hero god revealed it to me and I got out of there

52:15

Look how smart I was This guy's manipulation. This guy is so full of himself

52:21

And he is a danger he is an absolute danger to anybody who would follow his stuff

52:28

Does mark driscoll preach the gospel? Yes. I've heard him preach the gospel. He absolutely does

52:34

But that does not make him a qualified pastor. He is disqualified for his position a thousand times over and has been so thoroughly dishonest and evading of his

52:46

Responsibilities that I would go as far as saying he's permanently disqualified. He can't ever move back into that position again

52:54

Because he's been so dishonest and he's has always been this way. He's been a part of the emergent church movement

53:01

He's been a part of been buddies with new apostolic reformation preachers He's been now

53:07

He's disavowed the young restless and reform movement that he was a part of and he talks as if he was never a calvinist before At all when you can find videos of him teaching calvinism

53:16

And he makes fun of it as like little boy theology who have daddy issues and that's why they run to calvinism

53:23

So was that your problem when you were a calvinist and you were teaching? On calvinism anyway, and how could he be wrong if god reveals these things to him, right?

53:34

Exactly. That's the thing God told me so therefore i'm never wrong about any of this stuff. Yeah, god told me but he's changed his mind so many times

53:42

Yeah, oh yeah is so wishy -washy. Yeah, and it will put himself in whatever

53:48

Theological spot that he needs to be in in order to gain an advantage and it's really sad to see even some of my pastor friends

53:56

Be so easily taken in by and manipulated by this guy Over two decades of mark driscoll and you've not figured this out yet This he is using you.

54:06

He is an abuser to you in using you when you sympathize with him

54:11

And think that that he was he could potentially have been the victim in all of this He's not

54:18

The charges that were brought against him were were legitimate charges of abuse

54:24

He was spiritually abusive and in some cases according to some anecdotes physically abusive now

54:30

I did not include any of those anecdotes in the video that I did Because it's just one person telling a story

54:37

And again, I find it necessary to have to levy the charges according to what scripture says by the evidence of two or three witnesses, right so Somebody has to be able to come alongside and agree with that story in order for that story to be

54:52

Legitimate when somebody's telling somebody or when somebody's telling a story about driscoll being abusive towards somebody else, right?

54:59

You need to have two witnesses, right? I mean he's their leader and they could easily pick up on the fact.

55:06

Oh if I just Embellish or lie about this then it'll be fine, right? So even when it comes to the anecdotal evidence,

55:12

I I think there still needs to be the evidence of two or three witnesses Definitely, but still we've got those charges of abuse that have been public and they've been public for well over a decade

55:22

And driscoll was not willing to submit to it ran away has evaded church discipline. The man's disqualified

55:27

Yeah, and that's that's even setting aside the fact that his teaching is so charismatically wonky

55:34

And blasphemous in the way that he uses the lord's name in vain Yeah, but I appreciate your question ryan and I hope that kind of shed some light on the subject

55:43

Okay, so so kind of answering but not really answering the second question If a pastor is innocent, i'm not saying mark driscoll, but a pastor is innocent and the

55:58

Board or the elders or whomever is and you know with him in charge of the church

56:04

Are trying to remove him? Through church discipline. Yeah making up a story, right?

56:11

What would be the biblical response not run? Yeah, you still can't run What would be a wise approach to that would be i'm gonna go get

56:20

A couple of men on my side who can vouch for me, right and they will come into this scenario

56:29

And we're going to talk this out Here are my two or three witnesses that are serving as my accountability

56:35

Because I don't think that you men are honest in the way that we're approaching this And so you go talk to two or three other pastors and be able to come in and have that kind of conversation

56:46

Otherwise if you run You're abandoning your flock The whole church wasn't against him if if in this scenario

56:53

Yeah, they were scheming against him to try to remove him or reduce his power and influence or something like that The the church was not doing that the body the flock that he was responsible to shepherd wasn't doing that There was leadership that was doing that so in that instance

57:10

Bring two or three others along that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses

57:15

Yeah, exactly the instruction that's given in matthew chapter 18 So that driscoll would have men on his side that would be able to vouch for the fact that we don't think that the elders pastor

57:25

What did I say you said driscoll? I'm, just putting It should be passed. Okay. Sure.

57:30

Sure. Sure. It's definitely. Yeah Speaking of it in generalized terms rather than yes specifically to this situation

57:36

So so that he is able to have accountability and be able to say We don't think that this matter was handled honestly

57:45

On that side. Yeah, and so i'm going to resign And at least for goodness sake address your congregation, right?

57:54

And say to them here's why I need to step down and i'm sorry But he just he just tucked tail and ran.

58:00

Yeah and all the people who say that driscoll is so brave and and such a godly man and He's standing against the tide against all this other stuff.

58:09

Mark. Driscoll's a coward Driscoll ran away from his responsibility. He's not a brave courageous man

58:16

He just went to another position where nobody could challenge his authority and established and set up another church where he could run the table

58:23

And the same kind of abuses that he did at mars hill Are already coming out of trinity church in scottsdale

58:31

Oh, wow, there are people leaving that church and saying the same kinds of stories of the stuff that happened at mars hill it's the same pattern over and over again and He's how many times is it gonna have to happen exactly?

58:43

Yeah, he gets actually like oh, yeah, you're not good reputation They're about to move into this multi -million dollar facility like well over 10 million dollars

58:53

Oh, yeah, I remember hearing about that. I think it's three times the size of their current

58:58

The the church that they currently occupy which they're running like five services now or something Oh, and by the way when he left mars hill that was one of the things that even friends of his like robert morris

59:09

You know morris who was the pastor of gateway church in dallas who's since been sent to prison over Uh child sex abuse charges.

59:19

Oh missed that. Yeah Okay, and that he was the guy that sent mark driscoll to scottsdale to plant the church there.

59:25

It was a Uh, sorry, the church in dallas gateway church was the sending church of trinity church in scottsdale under robert morris

59:35

Okay, so morris even at the time that driscoll had resigned from mars hill morris had said

59:42

Driscoll was working too much. He was doing six services on A sunday or like two on saturday and four on sunday, and that's just too much

59:52

So that's not healthy Man is is running himself ragged. Well, that's what he's doing at trinity and scottsdale.

59:59

He's already doing that Yeah, he's got two services on saturday and like four on sunday So he's back to running the same patterns that he was doing before And has created this environment where he's the top dog and it's a cult of personality.

01:00:14

It's all surrounding mark driscoll That's crazy. So in kind of wrapping up the mark driscoll saga once again

01:00:20

Yes, let me come back to second timothy 2 22 Where paul tells timothy so flee youthful passions and youthful passions here

01:00:30

Is that is that manly tendency to want to fight? Yeah to want to argue and quarrel and be pugilistic with one another that aggressiveness that ungentle

01:00:41

Sort of aggression that many men have that's exactly what paul is talking about with timothy here.

01:00:46

So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness

01:00:52

Faith love and peace along with those who call on the lord from a pure heart

01:00:59

Have nothing to do with foolish ignorant controversies, you know that they breed quarrels

01:01:05

And the lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone able to teach patiently enduring evil correcting his opponents with gentleness

01:01:19

God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil

01:01:29

After being captured by him to do his will Pray for driscoll that he will repent

01:01:36

Pray for those who are under him that they would not be taken in by him And uh and be led in a false way or or even abused continue under that pattern of abuse

01:01:48

Well now i'm going to completely shift gears From from what we just talked about regarding mark driscoll and i'm going to end with this email

01:01:55

This is a little bit lighter note for you. Okay. Okay. All right dear gabe and becky

01:02:01

I am so grateful for your podcast. I have been listening to it for the past five years and I have learned so much

01:02:08

I look forward to every episode A few weeks back you were teaching through luke,

01:02:13

I believe And you stopped to give parents who may have lost a child Some reassurance of their little ones being with the lord

01:02:22

I was cleaning my house while listening, but I had to stop as it brought me to tears

01:02:27

My little seven -year -old daughter my ember olivia was taken home to heaven three and a half years ago

01:02:34

Though the pain is as fresh as if it happened yesterday You have no idea

01:02:41

Of the great comfort it brought my heart I was born and raised in mormon polygamy

01:02:47

Then joined the lds mainstream church when I was 23 I could still be mormon but not live my parents life 15 years a temple marriage two kids and a horrible divorce later

01:03:01

I found myself a single mom in utah I find it so ironic that of all places it was in utah where god so graciously saved me and i've never looked back

01:03:13

The joy of his salvation the hope I now have in christ Is what has held me fast these last few years?

01:03:22

I look forward to the day I'll see my baby girl again in the arms of our lord

01:03:29

We pray for you and your family and are so grateful for the work you do for god's kingdom

01:03:36

Stay faithful dear friends in christ's love april Well, I mean

01:03:42

I wanted to say things like, you know, i'm so grateful that he delivered you from that um polygamy and and the the mormon faith in and of itself and I couldn't get any words out without choking up.

01:03:58

So Sorry, I didn't mean to make you cry April we thank you so very much

01:04:08

And it it matters a great deal to us that we could be an encouragement to you But most of all you found that encouragement in god's word

01:04:16

And his word is a comfort in our every trial And in our every need

01:04:22

And may we continue to be held fast to the lord by his holy spirit Looking to our father who is in heaven until that day

01:04:31

When we are new with him forever more In christ's kingdom Let's pray.

01:04:38

Yes Heavenly father we thank you for the time that we've had together the time that we have in your word is so special And what a privilege to have the word of god in this way that we may know the mind of god

01:04:49

And we know the promises of god that are given to us in christ. Jesus He who who died on the cross for our sins who rose again from the dead

01:04:58

Ascended into heaven is sitting at the right hand of god where he Advocates on our behalf speaking favorably of us before the father

01:05:07

And he is coming back again to take us to himself He will judge the living and the dead all those who are in christ.

01:05:14

Jesus will not perish but have everlasting life Lord as we live these days.

01:05:20

May we live these days in honor and in obedience to you

01:05:25

Convict our hearts of sin that we would turn from sin and walk in the righteousness That we've been clothed in for all those who have faith in jesus christ

01:05:35

And if we do stumble into sin we remember those words of first john 1 9 if we

01:05:42

Ask forgiveness if we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

01:05:52

May the day of the lord always be in our view and we think those thoughts as said in colossians 3

01:05:58

Set your minds on things that are above where christ is It's in his name.

01:06:04

We pray. Amen. Amen Okay This is when we understand the text a daily bible study in god's word in god's word

01:06:21

That our hearts may be filled with his hope and peace Okay I've got a smudgy spot on my phone.