August 27, 2025 Show with Dr. John P. Marcus on “How Biochemistry Relates to Creation”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 27th day of August 2025.

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I ask for your continued prayers for me as I depart

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Pennsylvania next week, next Thursday, to be more specific, to head to my old stomping grounds, as they say, on Long Island, New York, for a visit there and to host the memorial service for my late brother,

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Andy. I would appreciate your prayers, not only for safe travels and a blessed time of fellowship there, but also that some of my brother's lost friends would be present at the memorial service and that they would hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, which will be proclaimed by my very dear friend,

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Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, and that lost souls would come to Christ as a result of this.

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If anybody is in the Coram area or on Long Island and you would like to attend this service,

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I would love to see you there. The website for directions to Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island is hopereformedli .net,

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hopereformedli .net, and the memorial service will be held

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Saturday, September 6th at 3 p .m. So, I hope to see you there.

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But today, I am so thrilled to have a first -time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. John P.

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Marcus, pastor of Peace Protestant Reformed Church in Dyer, Indiana, who received his

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Ph .D. in biochemistry from University of Michigan. He's a former research officer at the

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Cooperative Research Center for Tropical Plant Pathology at University of Queensland, Australia, and contributor to the book,

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In Six Days, Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation, and he is addressing how biochemistry relates to creation.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

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John P. Marcus. Thank you, Chris, for having me on.

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It's a privilege for me to interview with you. I'd like to express also my sympathies in the passing of your brother, and my prayer too is that the gospel will go forth, and God will use that to bring honor to his name.

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Amen. I appreciate that very much. Well, tell us something about the congregation where you are pastoring,

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Peace Protestant Reformed Church in Dyer, Indiana. Peace Protestant Reformed Church is a congregation of about 33 families.

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We preach the gospel of sovereign particular grace.

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We want to honor God in all of our lives, and we have a lovely congregation of old and young.

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And this congregation is a strong supporter and adhere to the three forms of unity, am

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I correct? The Heidelberg Catechism, Belgic Confession, and the

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Canons of Dort? That's correct. Our churches hold to those three forms of unity, and usually

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I preach through the Heidelberg Catechism about once every year and a half, so going through the entire catechism.

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Great. Well, if anybody wants more details on Peace Protestant Reformed Church, especially if you live in the

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Dyer, Indiana area, or are traveling through there, or have family, friends, and loved ones in that area, and you'd like to recommend them to this congregation, the website is

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PeacePRC, for ProtestantReformedChurch .org. That's PeacePRC .org.

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Before we go into our major theme today, how biochemistry relates to creation, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we have first -time guests, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them. And I know that although there is one gospel, and only one means of salvation, and only one

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Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, at the same time, the way in which the

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Lord Jesus Christ, or even the circumstances, vary differently.

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You have people who were raised from infancy in godly homes and were instructed in the

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Scriptures since they were little children, and you have others who did not know the gospel until they were well -grown, perhaps even elderly, and some have traumatic experiences involved and dramatic conversion experiences of being rescued out of drug addiction and prostitution and all kinds of things, even behind the bars of a prison cell.

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And then you have also stories of men and women who were preserved and protected by God since infancy from having to experience those kinds of more dramatic, rebellious years, and that in itself is a testimony of God's love, mercy, and power when

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He preserved someone since childhood. But tell us about your story. Yeah, I grew up in a

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Christian home. My parents were missionaries in Mexico. I was born in Mexico, grew up down there, and really from my earliest recollection,

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I believed everything that the Bible said. I knew

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I was a sinner in need of Jesus Christ. I can remember in high school being convicted that I had not loved

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God. As I ought to love God, I prayed that God would work that love in my heart, and daily

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I pray for forgiveness on the basis of the perfect work of Christ on the cross.

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Daily, I want to live a life that is obedient and shows my thankfulness to God for His grace to me.

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And when did you come to the realization that God had placed a call upon your life to enter into the pastoral ministry?

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You know, I had thoughts when I was in high school and put it off, and I went to college.

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I went to graduate school. During graduate school, I asked a pastor for his advice as I had thought about the ministry, and he said, well, finish your degree first.

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I was going for my PhD at the time, and I think that was good advice.

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But after I got my degree in 93,

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I went out to Australia and worked out there in Brisbane.

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And while I was out there, I kept thinking more and more on just the need for ministers and the conviction that I thought

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I should pursue the ministry. And one of the professors

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I talked to, Professor Hermann Hanco, he's passed away since then, he said, well, there's only one thing to do, and if you're serious about it, you ought to come back and begin preparations.

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And I did that, and the rest is history.

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Praise God. And what led to you entering into the field of biochemistry, which is largely to do with our subject today?

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I loved science. I pursued a

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Bachelor of Arts in chemistry, and I liked the chemistry of life because I think it just shows the amazing wonder of creation, how complex life is.

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And so I thought that biochemistry would be a good field to go into, as I had an appreciation for that.

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Great. And what, can you tell us specifically what that field entails, obviously, without going too far over the heads of the average listener here today that doesn't have a scientific background, but for the, breaking it down for the layman, what does that field of science cover, biochemistry?

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Sure, it's quite broad, but basically the chemistry of life.

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So how do living organisms, what are the processes that contribute to life and sustain life?

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So it has to do with all the way from what does a sugar molecule look like to how does a living organism convert sugar into energy?

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And so it's very broad, and definitely you can specialize in different ways in that field.

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Well, you are a six -day creationist.

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You believe that the account in Genesis of the creation of not only human beings, but to the creation of the earth is an account that should be read literally and believed that this took place over six literal 24 -hour days.

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And you, as I mentioned earlier, are a participant, a contributor to a book published by Master Books, which is an official publisher of Ken Ham's ministry.

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Ken Ham, the world -renowned young earth creationist. Perhaps you can tell us an overview of this book.

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I know that you only contributed one chapter to it, but this book, which is titled

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In Six Days, Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation.

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Why don't you give us an overview of that? And also, basically, in your own words, tell us why you believe this is such an important issue, although I believe

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I have, or we have, brethren in Christ who are truly our brethren and are truly saved who disagree with us over this.

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Nonetheless, I believe it's a very important issue. Well, when I say they disagree with us, they believe in an old earth.

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And I think that that is a serious flaw in their thinking. But if you could tell us about this book and why this issue is so important.

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The issue is important because it has to do with the authority of Scripture.

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Is God really telling us the truth when he says that he created the earth, the heavens and the earth in six days?

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And is there a literal Adam and is there a literal Eve? Were they tempted by a literal serpent in a literal garden so that by one man came sin into the world?

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That impinges on the gospel. If there was not a literal Adam, then we run into great difficulties when it comes to the second

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Adam who represents his elect people. So it is a salvation issue from that perspective.

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And it certainly impinges on the authority of Scripture.

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If Scripture cannot be trusted in Genesis 1 through 11, I'm going to have trouble trusting it when it speaks of other things, too.

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When in your life did this issue become an important issue? I don't know whether or not the original denomination you were in, the

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Christian Reformed Church, which has become very liberal since you were raised in that denomination.

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There are some true believers who are holdouts, standing firm in that denomination, but I think that they are few and far between, it seems, most of the biblically

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Orthodox members having departed for other denominations. But was the

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Christian Reformed Church, also known as the CRC, universally young earth believers, or was there a significant number of old earthers in that group?

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I would say there are a number of theistic evolutionists, old earthers.

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And growing up in Mexico, it was not an issue while I was on the mission field, although there were already then, even before I was 10 years old, people that I remember having as teachers on the mission field, even one of the teachers that came down that believed in an older.

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But thankfully, the other missionaries were strong enough to say that's not going to be taught down here.

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So it certainly has been an issue for a long time. I knew that it would become an issue for me when

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I chose to go to graduate school, and knowing

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I would go to a secular graduate school, I knew that I would be taught evolution, so I took a greater interest at that time to study the issues.

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And the topic at hand today, how is biochemistry related to creation, please tell us why this is such an important link, and also please feel free to be as lengthy in your answer as possible so that we can really get a full description of this scientific link.

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Can you repeat the question, Chris? I'd basically like you to give a full, detailed answer to my question of what is the link between biochemistry and creation.

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Why is it such an important link? The doctrine of creation in Scripture, of course,

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Scripture does not go into biochemistry per se.

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It doesn't tell us how sugar is converted to energy.

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It doesn't tell us many of those things. But biochemistry, when viewed through the eyeglasses of Scripture, confirms everything that Scripture says.

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So even though the Bible is not a science textbook per se, everything it says about science is absolutely true.

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So really, it's above any science textbook. And everything we discover ought to fit into what

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Scripture says. And that includes anything it says that even relates to biochemistry.

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It ought to be consistent. So science and Scripture are not at odds.

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Biochemistry and the Scriptures are not at all at odds. But when we look at the science of biochemistry through Scripture and through the eyeglasses of faith, we will see that it is completely consistent.

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And if there are questions yet, well, then, of course, the question is on the side of, well, we still don't have a full understanding of the science, but we know that Scripture is true.

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Well, we have to go to our first commercial break. If anybody has a question for Dr.

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John Marcus, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with Dr. John P.

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today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with Dr. John T.

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Marcus, and we are discussing how biochemistry is connected with creation.

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And before I go to some of our listener questions that have already come in, if you could address in as much detail as you can your contribution to the book that we already mentioned,

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In Six Days, Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation.

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If you could tell us what exactly the chapter that you contributed to this book is about, in as much detail as you could provide.

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Sure. I started out the chapter, when I initially wrote it, emphasizing that I believe in the doctrine of creation because that's what the

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Bible teaches. And I have to say, the editor was more interested in the scientific evidence, and he cut down that section on Scripture.

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But I think it's important to emphasize, even though it maybe is only one paragraph in the chapter that I contributed, is that I believe in the doctrine of creation because that's what

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Scripture says. Hebrews 11, verse 3, Through faith we understand that the world's refrained by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

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And there's so many portions of Scripture that teach the doctrine of creation.

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Jesus himself believed that Adam and Eve were there at the beginning, that the apostle

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Paul, Luke goes back with his genealogy all the way back to Adam and Eve.

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So there's no question that Scripture, if we're going to take it seriously, we start with that faith.

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By faith we understand. Then in the chapter, there are two things.

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Once we have that faith that God has given us, once we start with Scripture and the sure word of God, then we can see that Scripture makes absolute sense and evolution makes no sense.

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I talk in the chapter about the fact that design is the evidence of a designer.

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And that's very obvious to recognize.

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We should be able to recognize it. The illustration I use, if we go out in the desert and see this round object lying in the sand, and it's a cylindrical object, we see it has an opening at the top.

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We'd say, well, that's obviously a pot made by a human being that obviously has design.

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Well, what's evident for a simple object like that, is millions of times more so the case for something that has the design that we see in creation.

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And that's something that in biochemistry, people have studied proteins, and it's just astounding the more we study how incredibly complex living organisms, even the most simple organism, could be.

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So in that chapter, I use the example of the process of converting

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DNA information, the blueprint of life is the

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DNA, and converting that into proteins, say like enzymes or other components of living cells.

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Well, just that process alone requires at least 75 different protein molecules.

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But now we have a chicken or the egg question. Well, how could you get the

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DNA to be converted into the proteins, unless you have all the mechanisms in place that includes those proteins that are being produced.

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So it's really impossible that there's, you can put a number on it, but it is absolutely impossible that that could come about by chance.

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That was the first section that I talked about, just evidence of a designer.

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And then I went, I have to admit, it's a little bit dry, because it goes through calculations, and I won't go through the calculations on air here.

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But I calculated the probability of just one, just one average size protein coming about by chance.

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Well, every protein is composed, there's 20 different amino acids, different amino acids that can form a chain.

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And if you calculate the possibility of a right sequence of amino acids being all formed together by chance, and getting the right one, it's an astronomical number.

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And maybe for the mathematicians, one in 1 .3 times 10 to the 130th power.

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So almost 130 zeros, just for one. And then it just goes down, the probabilities go down from there.

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So even biochemistry textbooks, one popular one that's used today, this is one quote, our hypothetical nucleic acid synthesis system therefore is analogous to the scaffolding used in the construction of a building.

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After the building has been erected, the scaffolding is removed, leaving no physical evidence that it was there.

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Most of the statements in this section, they're talking about the life coming from non -life.

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They say most of the statements in this section must therefore be taken as educated guesses.

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Without having witnessed the event, it seems unlikely that we shall ever be certain of how life arose.

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Well, we can, that's the quote, they themselves admit that they do not have evidence.

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But thankfully, we do have someone who was there, who gives us an eyewitness testimony.

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God himself tells us how he created. He spake, he said the word,

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God said, let there be, and there was. So I concluded the article that life in its totality must have been created in the beginning, that the whole package has to be there or none of it can be there.

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Okay, we have a listener, Ted in Moundville, Alabama.

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Does your guest believe that accelerated nuclear decay was a part of God's creation plan?

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And if so, how would such an accelerated decay square up with the heat problem?

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Chris, I'm vaguely familiar with that. It's not a biochemistry question.

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But there have been creation scientists that have addressed that accelerated decay and believe that radioactive elements, there's evidence that radioactive elements decayed more rapidly at some point in the past.

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So I'm not qualified to really speak on that specific issue.

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But I could say this, even that dating the earth using radiometric dating, there are modern volcanoes that have erupted in living history that give millions of years the wrong date.

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So I'm not going to trust some radiometric date that a scientist gives when they can't even get it right for a volcano that's erupted in modern history.

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When I know what scripture says. But there are other clocks, if we look through scripture, that show the age, for example, of the human race.

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There are certain errors that are introduced from one generation to the other in human cells in the mitochondria.

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And based on the known rate today, it fits exactly with what the

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Bible says. And then I can say, OK, it agrees with scripture, with God's inspired sure word.

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Then I can accept that. OK, Ted, well, guess what?

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You are a very blessed individual today because you have won two books.

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By virtue of your sending in today's question, the first is the book.

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To which our guest contributed a chapter in six days, why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation.

45:22

And that is compliments of our friends at Master Books. Whose website is masterbooks .com.

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And also the massive $60 hardback from our friends at Reformed Free Publishing Association.

45:44

This is the commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism. By Zacharias Ersinus.

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And this is a very large work. And it's considered by scholars to be a classic on the work.

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And if you give us your full mailing address, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

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We'll ship those two books out to you. And we want to thank masterbooks .com.

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And also Reformed Free Publishing Association. Whose website is rfpa .org.

46:30

R -F for Reformed Free. P -A for Publishing Association .org.

46:36

We want to thank them for the generosity in shipping and providing us with these books.

46:42

And we thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. For shipping them out to our listeners.

46:50

We have another question from Joey in New Rochelle, New York.

47:02

And Joey says, What specific biochemical process are you aware of that is inconsistent with evolutionary theory?

47:26

Chris, when the process, if we want to call it a biochemical process, it's the mythical process of life coming from non -life.

47:40

It's inconsistent with the principles of logic.

47:48

It cannot happen. So I guess that's not a real biochemical process.

47:56

The problem with evolution is that it is so malleable that no matter what evidence is put forward, evolution can simply come up with its explanation.

48:20

And therefore, philosophers call it non -falsifiable.

48:26

There's no evidence that could possibly be brought up that would prove it false.

48:33

It's non -falsifiable, and therefore also it cannot be proven. But I would say the biochemical process of mutations being introduced that can be measured in the mitochondria of human beings.

48:51

And those mitochondria are passed down from the mother to its baby.

48:58

And those have been measured. And there's some nice articles on Answers in Genesis that talk about that.

49:07

Well, there's a process that's happened that is consistent, exactly consistent with what the

49:14

Bible says. But it's not consistent with millions of years.

49:21

It's completely inconsistent. Well, see, evolution could say, oh, well, but that's because they could come up with an explanation.

49:32

They could say, well, that's because most humans died out almost 6 ,000 years ago when there was—I'm making this up— when there was a meteorite that hit the earth, and that's why two humans survived.

49:50

They could always come up with an explanation. But the biochemical evidence is completely consistent with what the

50:00

Bible says about the age of the earth. Okay, and Joey has one more follow -up question.

50:10

Please discuss the single cell, and then he has in parentheses, wrongly named simple cell, and how the operation of the single cell cannot be produced by an evolutionary process.

50:29

Yeah, I like that, putting simple in quotations. One of the most simple organisms that has been studied is called a mycoplasma, and that simple organism has something like 480 different proteins, and all of them have to be there, or that simple cell cannot replicate, and it cannot produce another simple cell.

51:22

So for life, for a cell to be alive, it has to be able to make another cell.

51:29

It has to be able to take in energy. It has to be able to make a new copy of its own

51:37

DNA, and the studies that have been done have found that you can't get any more simple than that.

51:51

So you have to have at least 400 to 500 different complicated proteins.

52:04

They all have to be held in by all the components that are produced by all those proteins, and you have the chicken and the egg issue again.

52:20

It all has to be there together, or it can't be there at all.

52:29

Well, thank you, Joey, and guess what? As you likely assumed, you are also a winner of the two books that I mentioned,

52:42

In Six Days, Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation, by my guest today,

52:49

Dr. John P. Marcus. And also, you are going to receive the massive commentary on the

53:02

Heidelberg Catechism that we mentioned by Zacharias Ursinus.

53:08

And we want to thank, once again, masterbooks .com

53:14

and rfpa .org for contributing these free books to us today.

53:22

Make sure, Joey, that we have your full mailing address in New Rochelle, New York.

53:28

We have to go to our midway break right now, and if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

53:40

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

53:50

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And I'm really looking forward to having dinner with Dr. Doug McMasters, pastor of New Hyde Park Baptist Church next

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Thursday when I arrive on Long Island, New York, the week of my brother's memorial service.

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So looking forward to seeing you, Pastor Doug. And before I return to my conversation with Dr.

01:08:41

John P. Marcus on how biochemistry relates to creation,

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and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

01:13:07

Dr. John P. Marcus, as we continue to discuss the connection between biochemistry and creation.

01:13:14

chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. You have a question from Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia.

01:13:24

Do you know of any colleagues in your field of expertise that believe as you do, but are fearful to say so because of various repercussions?

01:13:35

And in fact, I will add to that question from Lou and ask you, have you ever had serious negative repercussions because of your beliefs?

01:13:47

I don't know anyone personally. I know that when

01:13:55

I was in graduate school, that could have been made an issue because I did talk to colleagues about my belief in a six day creation.

01:14:12

My advisor at the University of Michigan was a professing

01:14:18

Christian and he did not make a big deal of it for sure, but that was always a danger.

01:14:30

Nevertheless, I think we need to be faithful and be willing to speak what we believe when we're asked.

01:14:42

Do we necessarily try to become persecuted? I would say no.

01:14:49

So I don't know of anyone personally that is struggling with that now. I've heard of stories of people being denied their doctorate degree and I could see somebody who was ardent unbeliever and a hater, which they all are haters of God.

01:15:11

I could see how they might want to make that an issue. Yes, in fact,

01:15:19

I have had some encounters with even professing Christians and even on top of that professing

01:15:27

Reformed Christians who are old earth creationist believers who are so nasty and offensive in their rhetoric towards young earthers that I could even see them if they were in positions of authority denying a doctorate or something to a young earth creationist.

01:15:48

Some of them are just over the top. And of course I'm not broad brushing here because I also have very close friends that I've known for decades who are old earth creationists.

01:15:59

And although I have serious disagreements with their view,

01:16:06

I still remain friends and consider them my brothers. By the way,

01:16:12

Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia, you have also won the two books that we've been mentioning,

01:16:19

In Six Days, Why 50 Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation, to which our guest today,

01:16:27

Dr. John P. Marcus, contributed a chapter and that's published by masterbooks .com,

01:16:35

one of the primary publishers of Ken Ham, the world -renowned young earth creationist.

01:16:43

And also, thanks to the generosity of RFPA .org,

01:16:51

that's Reformed Free Publishing Association, we're giving away the massive hardback commentary on the

01:16:59

Heidelberg Catechism, valued at $60. And that is the commentary on the

01:17:06

Heidelberg Catechism by Zacharias Ersinus. And I hope that you enjoy both of those.

01:17:14

Lou, please make sure we have your full mailing address in Sharpsburg, Georgia.

01:17:20

And I was curious what your opinion is. I don't know if you've read it, but there has been a popular book, which has a subtitle connected to our subject matter today,

01:17:42

The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution. The actual title of the book is

01:17:47

Darwin's Black Box, which has an anniversary, a 10th anniversary edition out now, by Michael Behe.

01:17:55

Do you have any thoughts on that, if you have read it? I'm trying to remember if I read it.

01:18:03

Does he use the argument of the irreducible complexity? Oh, that I wouldn't know because I actually haven't read the book.

01:18:10

I just know that I've been hearing it recommended to me. If I'm not mistaken, he talks about the idea that everything, sort of like what

01:18:28

I brought up, that everything has to be there in order for even the most simple cell to work.

01:18:40

So if I just, you know, with that example that I used of mycoplasma, if you took just one of those 400 to 500 proteins out of that cell, it won't work anymore, and it won't live.

01:19:00

And if you don't have that one piece, then all the other 400 to 500 are meaningless.

01:19:11

So I have not read that recently. And I can't remember if I have read that.

01:19:18

I don't think I have. By the way, our friend Joey in New Rochelle, New York, just chimed in.

01:19:27

Yes, irreducible complexity. And that really is the question that evolution has no answer for.

01:19:42

They will just say, well, it just happened, chance. And if you give it a long enough time, and in my chapter,

01:19:49

I go through a calculation that I give it all the time that evolutionists say, and I calculate.

01:19:57

Again, it's way too dry to do in an interview. But it's so laughably and really incomprehensibly, the odds, we can't even comprehend how small they are, because they have, you know, hundreds of zeros behind it.

01:20:19

One in, it's, we can barely understand one in a billion. So irreducible complexity.

01:20:29

I think we could think of it this way. If you have a city, a cell is like a city.

01:20:37

And that whole city had, let's just pretend that it was manned by robots that did all the work.

01:20:48

And you have to have this city make another copy of itself. Well, who would ever imagine that you could have this self -replicating city, or you could say self -replicating factory, a factory that would make another copy of itself, manned by robots.

01:21:10

Who would ever imagine that that could come about by chance? So evolution does not have an answer to that.

01:21:20

They simply have no answer. They just say, well, it happened. And the

01:21:27

Bible says otherwise. The Bible says that God created it by his word.

01:21:35

And if a theistic evolutionist wants to say, well, God could have used evolution.

01:21:42

The problem is he doesn't. He speaks to us and tells us that he did it by his word.

01:21:50

And the kinds he created at the beginning, he didn't evolve them from other kinds.

01:21:58

So it's directly contrary to the word of God. But irreducible complexity is a very strong argument against evolution.

01:22:11

OK, we have James in Concord, New Hampshire.

01:22:17

Oh, I'm sorry. It's actually Concord, North Carolina. There's one letter off there.

01:22:23

It wasn't an N -H. It was an N -C. And James says, could it be rightly said of secular science that in spite of their facade of despising religion and accusing religion of being an enemy of Christianity, they have actually created their secular science as a religion unto itself, even if they never describe it as a religion.

01:22:56

They seem to do the same kinds of things that the Roman Catholic Church once did centuries ago, where they insisted on certain scientific views that had no real biblical basis and certainly no scientific basis.

01:23:13

But nonetheless, persecuted people who disagreed with them on these views.

01:23:19

And today, we seem to have secular science doing the same thing towards Christians who happen to be brilliant scientists.

01:23:29

Yes, I believe that's exactly what has and what happens and has happened.

01:23:37

John Calvin says about the human heart is that human hearts are idle factories.

01:23:44

We manufacture idols according to the image that we like. And that's exactly what unbelieving scientists have done, who

01:23:55

Romans 1 says that they do know there is a

01:24:02

God and that he ought to be served. They know by the creation.

01:24:08

It's clearly seen. There is a God. He must be served. But if you admit that, then you're also admitting your guilt.

01:24:18

So unbelievers will say, no, there is no God. And they will suppress that knowledge of God.

01:24:26

And they will do everything in their power to deny the existence of God, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

01:24:38

Even when everything, all the science lines up with Scripture, when it does, and true science will line up with Scripture, they'll still deny it.

01:24:53

They'll come up with some other explanation. OK, we have

01:24:59

Danny in Terra Bella, California. And Danny wants to know, could you please list some things that you as a scientist in the biochemistry field have no answer for, and your colleagues have not come up with answers for these things either?

01:25:27

I think there are probably countless mysteries that we don't have an answer yet.

01:25:36

But I do believe that the more we study, the more we see that everything does, in fact, line up with what

01:25:49

Scripture has said. And I think we could use the words of Jesus, Oh, you, somebody who refuses to believe

01:25:56

Scripture, oh, you of little faith, which we all have only a small beginning.

01:26:04

But there's always going to be things we don't have an answer for. It used to be that people said humans and chimpanzees were 98 % similar in their

01:26:19

DNA. Well, the more work that has been done on that, humans and chimpanzees are not nearly as similar as has been said.

01:26:34

And that, again, shows exactly what we would expect according to Scripture.

01:26:42

So, yeah, are there things we don't have answers for? There's all kinds of mysteries that we still don't understand the depths of how complicated human cells are.

01:26:58

The example I used of that mycoplasma, they constructed a synthetic life that they made in the lab.

01:27:07

They kind of played around with all the genes and they could get something like 400, maybe 430,

01:27:19

I forget the exact number, where they could get a cell to live on just those number of proteins.

01:27:30

But there were like 25 % of those proteins, they don't even know what they do yet.

01:27:37

So, there still are many, many mysteries in the creation that just show how complicated living organisms are.

01:27:50

Why do you think, from your knowledge of science in history, why do you think, other than perhaps the powers of Satan and his demons itself, how on earth did

01:28:08

Darwinian evolution and an old earth of billions of years and these countless things that are contrary to the scripture, how on earth did they become the dominant views in science?

01:28:30

Not very long ago, but a little over 100 years ago.

01:28:37

And this dominance remains. What made science and even the church vulnerable to this?

01:28:50

Well, it is striking that even in the 1800s, there were what we would say were sound theologians otherwise that were willing to accept long ages.

01:29:11

So, I think it ultimately comes to unbelief and we are weak in our faith.

01:29:19

So that, like I said, some sound theologians, somebody like Warfields, I think, and Bobby, that left holes in their theology because they accepted the secular white coat prophets and what those prophets said, and using prophets in quotation marks, rather than simply holding to what scripture says.

01:29:53

And when there are things we don't understand, for example, starlight from distant stars, there have been explanations put forward.

01:30:02

But it's the speed of light and how it interacts with space. That is a deep mystery.

01:30:11

I'm not going to throw the Bible out just because I can't explain how starlight comes from a distant star and reaches us.

01:30:20

I can say, I don't understand it, but God could easily simply have created the light in transit or space may bend in a certain way.

01:30:31

I don't have to understand it. But I think unbelief is the reason.

01:30:38

And where we doubt, we shouldn't be looking for proof in the creation.

01:30:45

We should be begging God for mercy to increase our faith, to say, help me to believe what you say in the

01:30:57

Word, praying to God for grace. Now, even somebody that you mentioned in your answer,

01:31:06

Herman Bovink, was susceptible to the lies of secular science, and yet he is considered by many

01:31:16

Reformed theologians and scholars to be one of the greatest minds of the

01:31:21

Reformed faith, and even your denomination's publishing house, Reformed Free Publishing Association, has brought back into print at least one of his works, if not more.

01:31:32

So it makes it even more of a puzzle or something to be baffled over.

01:31:41

I think we should be very thankful for the work of some of the creation science people,

01:31:48

Bill Penham and others, Morrison Whitcomb, and other men used by God to open our eyes to say, look, you can and ought to believe what the

01:32:05

Bible says. There's all the fossils throughout all the

01:32:12

Earth are screaming out that there was a worldwide flood, that God judged the world, and we ought to see that evidence through the eyeglasses of Scripture and say

01:32:25

God really did judge the world, like he said. So it's not surprising, and it's only by grace that we will believe what

01:32:37

God tells us. So we need to pray for that grace. Amen.

01:32:43

Yes, we do. And another name you didn't mention that is baffling, who was susceptible to the lies of secular science was

01:32:55

B .B. Warfield, one of the great Princeton theologians when

01:33:02

Princeton was still an Orthodox seminary. Very sad to know that because he is so rich in his biblical knowledge and wisdom, and I love reading

01:33:15

B .B. Warfield. Chris, I think that shows us, and we should be cautious then ourselves, that we are creatures of our culture that we absorb much, much more out of our culture than we realize.

01:33:38

And we need to pray for God's grace to protect us from all the wiles, all the lies of the devil.

01:33:50

Amen. Can you tell us about the biochemical process in the human body that are evidences of creation?

01:34:03

You know, every single process is, when you start zeroing down, they're all so astounding that you could take just the human eye or just the proteins in the human eye that detect light and detect different colors of light.

01:34:30

That's just astounding. Every single protein, the proteins in our muscles, you can think of them as machines.

01:34:43

So if you came across a motor that spun around in circles, an electric motor with a little propeller on it, you'd say, well, that couldn't come about by chance.

01:34:57

But there are bacteria that have little flagellum.

01:35:03

It's like a little tail that spins around. That long tail spins and it propels it, just like a ship propeller.

01:35:12

Well, that's not in the human body, but in a bacteria. On the other hand, there's motors called

01:35:21

ATP synthase. It's also, it's like a generator, a turbine, and it sits in the membrane of our mitochondria.

01:35:35

That's the powerhouse of the cell. And it spins like a motor as protons flow through it.

01:35:43

And that process produces the ATP, the energy, just like a water turbine producing energy.

01:35:52

Well, just that process all by itself is astounding that it works the way it works.

01:36:03

And you have to have that to have the whole rest of the cell.

01:36:10

And that's just one tiny little component that you could say that's just a stamp of God's wisdom that he created those things.

01:36:23

You have little, you could almost call them robots. They're called kinesin and dynein.

01:36:31

And they are like little motors that walk along and they carry these packages, vesicles, and organelles on their backs, as it were, and they march down one step at a time.

01:36:53

And again, just the complexity of something like that.

01:36:59

And again, just one small part of the whole human being.

01:37:07

And then, obviously, human life is mysterious because how do our souls interact with our bodies?

01:37:16

But you could even think of an animal without a soul, an elephant that can remember, or other creatures that can remember, dogs that can remember the complexity of how a brain works.

01:37:37

It's so astounding that every time we think of those processes, we ought to think about the wise, all -powerful

01:37:48

God that put it together. There's no shortage of things that should just make us stand in awe of the

01:38:00

God who made us, who made heaven and earth, in whom is our help, as the psalmist says.

01:38:09

So we could go through so many of the different things.

01:38:15

In the chapter that I wrote, I just looked at just the process to make 75 proteins that are used to convert

01:38:33

DNA into proteins. So 75 different proteins together.

01:38:40

And you take one of those out, missing one out of 75, and the process will come to a grinding halt.

01:38:48

It will not work. And then, well, if you take one protein out, then none of the other proteins will be made either.

01:38:58

So it's that God created everything all there, all at once. And if we take the simplest cell, it's like a city with a power station, a sewer station, traffic lights.

01:39:17

It's not a stretch to compare it to a city with all the different parts of a city.

01:39:23

And now take the one simplest cell and put it into a human body.

01:39:32

That is just astounding how all the cells differentiate just in the right place to give us our fingers and our toes and our brains and our eyes.

01:39:46

And obviously, the God who created life like that is far greater than the life that he created.

01:39:58

He's infinite. We are just finite creatures of the dust. We have a listener who chooses to call herself

01:40:09

Mrs. V as in victory in Kernersville, North Carolina.

01:40:17

And Mrs. V asks, I don't know if your experience in biochemistry relates to this question, which is more of an anthropological question, but I was wondering if you believe that human beings were far different from what they appear to be today than they were after creation.

01:40:47

For instance, did they look very different and walk very different?

01:40:53

And as far as some of the evolutionists say that things like the appendix had a far more important use in the human body long ago than today, which some have said is even a useless organ.

01:41:13

Do you believe any of that? Chris, I think it's possible that humans, let's say before the flood, were larger than we are today.

01:41:30

I haven't studied that in depth, but the fact that, for example, today people have to have their wisdom teeth taken out because there's not enough space might indicate that in the past, maybe before the flood, when people were living into the 900s, they could have been larger.

01:41:57

There certainly were very large people, giants,

01:42:03

Goliath and other relatives of Goliath. So it's possible they were larger.

01:42:10

They certainly lived longer in the past. Now mutations have accumulated that make it much more difficult to live that long, impossible to live into the 900s now.

01:42:24

So yes, I think probably we looked, we were bigger and lived longer, probably were more healthy for that reason as well.

01:42:36

That would be connected. Now things like the muscles that move our ears, maybe humans in the past were able to use those muscles better.

01:42:53

And now those functions have degenerated, just like our human bodies are not as strong as they were before the flood.

01:43:03

So we can't move our ears to find sound direction quite as readily as in the past.

01:43:13

Appendix, I think they found uses for that. So that's an argument evolution said, oh, well, that's left over from evolution.

01:43:23

It has no function. I think the research now shows that an appendix has a function.

01:43:31

And is that readily believed by even secular scientists today? I believe so, that the appendix has function.

01:43:42

So there's other things like that, that they called appendages and that leftover things that don't have function anymore.

01:44:00

Again, it's possible that things have devolved because we are growing weaker and the human race is getting weaker and weaker because we're accumulating mutations.

01:44:13

Since the time of the creation, when God created man perfect. So it wouldn't be surprising, but when we don't know the function, our first way to approach it is not to jump to evolution, but to say we don't know the function and let's find out why

01:44:37

God created it there rather than taking the evolutionary approach and saying, oh, it must be left over from evolution and it has no function.

01:44:47

That's kind of an anti -science and would be detrimental to the discovery process.

01:44:55

Well, we have to go to our final commercial break right now. If anybody would like to join us,

01:45:01

I would strongly urge you to send in your question immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:45:10

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

01:45:25

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question is about a personal and private matter.

01:45:35

Let's say you are in a church that strongly disagrees with young earth creation or something like that and you don't want to identify yourself because it's a disagreement with your own church leaders.

01:45:51

We understand things like that. But if it's a general question, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

01:45:57

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Buttafuoco & Associates from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:54:28

We have Mikey in West Windsor Township, New Jersey, who says, other than the book to which you contributed that Chris Arnzen has been mentioning and giving away, what other books on the issue of creationism can you recommend personally?

01:54:50

Well, Chris, there are many, many books. If I was going to send somebody somewhere to look at the issue of creation versus evolution,

01:55:00

I like the Biblical Science Institute.

01:55:07

You interviewed Jason Lyle just recently.

01:55:14

I have a lot of respect for them, and Answers in Genesis is a very good website as well.

01:55:23

There are brothers and sisters in Christ that treat the

01:55:28

Bible as the Word of God and look at science through the eyeglasses of Scripture.

01:55:35

So that's where I would look, and then there's many, many different books that they publish that I think would be very good.

01:55:45

Well, the Biblical Science Institute website is biblicalscienceinstitute .com.

01:55:55

biblicalscienceinstitute .com. You can also look up in the Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio archive for my interviews with Dr.

01:56:04

Jason Lyle. Just type in his last name, L -I -S -L -E, in the search engine.

01:56:11

And, of course, there is Master Books that has published the book that my guest today,

01:56:22

Dr. John P. Marcus, has contributed to. Their website is masterbooks .com.

01:56:30

masterbooks .com. And let's not forget the aforementioned

01:56:37

Answers in Genesis ministry, and their website is answersingenesis .org.

01:56:45

answersingenesis .org. If you could, Dr. Marcus, within just a couple of minutes, summarize what you most etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:56:58

I would say the biggest thing is we have to start with Scripture.

01:57:06

What does God say? He was there. He created by His Word. Secular evolution does not fit with the

01:57:15

Bible. Simply adding God to evolution does not work.

01:57:21

It still contradicts what

01:57:26

God Himself tells us. Genesis is very clear that God created in six morning and evening days.

01:57:39

There was the evening and the morning, the first day, and so on. And when we look at what

01:57:44

Scripture says about the genealogies, we find that the world was created about 6 ,000 years ago.

01:57:55

And that's the clear testimony of Scripture. So start with Scripture.

01:58:04

And any doubts about some evidence, we can easily say we don't know the answer to everything.

01:58:13

How something came to be in a particular way, but we do know what

01:58:18

God says. And what we say, what we believe must square with what

01:58:26

God Himself says. Jesus said Matthew 19, verse 4, He answered them,

01:58:31

Have ye not read? So He's referring to Scripture. There's the authority that He which made them,

01:58:40

Adam and Eve, at the beginning made them male and female.

01:58:46

So Jesus Himself points to a beginning, points to the creation of male and female that affects our theology, and it's a salvation issue because if we don't believe in a literal

01:58:59

Adam, and Scripture says death reigned from Adam to Moses, and by one man sin entered into the world, we're going to run into very serious difficulties with Christ.

01:59:14

Well, we are out of time, and the website for my guest's church is peaceprc .org,

01:59:22

peaceprc .org, Peace Protestant Reformed Church in Dyer, Indiana. Thank you so much, brother, for being my guest today.

01:59:29

I want to thank everybody who wrote in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater