Why Are Men Under Attack? | An Interview On the Berean Babes Show

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The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject

Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty

God is hanging over our heads. They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended, and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the

Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us. Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

All right. Hi, guys. Welcome to Berean Bibs, Where Theology Matters.

So I'm going to have a guest today. So back up.

We're going to have a good discussion tonight. All right. There you go.

For some reason, I can hear myself. Can you guys hear me? We can hear you. Yeah, I can hear you. You can hear me? Okay.

I don't know why I'm experiencing an echo. Okay. All right.

Welcome. The show will carry on. So guys, introduce yourself. Yeah, I'm Tim Mullett.

I'm one of the co -hosts of the Bible Bash podcast. And Harrison, you can say a few words about yourself.

Yeah, I'm Harrison Kerrig. I'm the other co -host of the Bible Bash podcast. And do you want us to talk a little bit about the show or ourselves?

What do you want to know? Yeah. And how did you settle the name Bible Bash? I've always wanted to know that.

Well, basically, we were brainstorming a bunch of ideas. And at this point,

I don't remember the short list we had. Yeah, we had a few. But we settled on Bible Bash just because we knew we wanted to start a podcast that was talking about all of the subjects that no one really ever wants to touch, basically.

Or if they do, they do it in a very apologetic way. And so we knew that's what we wanted to do with the podcast.

And so when we were thinking of a name, we thought, well, what do people normally call that kind of person who just speaks truthfully?

And Bible Bash. We landed on that. Well, people always say, hey, quit Bible bashing me or whatever.

And so we're like, oh, yeah, we should just call it the Bible Bash podcast. OK. I see. OK, so it's kind of like he's a

Bible thumper. You know how people say stuff like that. OK, that's good. Anything that has to do with the scripture, it's fair game.

So it's fine. Keep the name. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we don't have any plans to change.

Yeah, I think we wanted something that was a little more direct and a little more blunt. So we wanted something to have a straight talk kind of feel to it.

But there's so many podcasts out there that are named that or those kind of variants. And so we basically, you know that anytime anyone encourages another person to obey the

Bible, essentially they're going to be called a Bible basher. So we just thought we'd lean into that and go with it.

You didn't want to go to the just be loving route. No, no, we think we have enough of that.

You know, our culture is, you know, burning around us. So I think it's time to be a little more direct and sound a little more like Jesus or John the

Baptist at that point. I love it. I love it. I love it.

OK, so like today I want to talk about like, you know, I do see I've been seeing this thing that has been going on for quite some time.

So Patrick is pretty much under attack. Man, anything that has to do with men, it's always being it's becoming an issue.

And I'm even seeing that. OK, there's some tendencies, even in the churches, even like in good churches, always want to have men sort of like take a backseat.

You know, I do think men are supposed to lead because that's how God has designed them to lead.

So and I'm glad that you guys are guys, you know, because again, I'm covered over here.

So anything that is wrong. Well, since we're men, we, you know, we specialize in this and we can teach you the

Bible from a from a man's perspective. Yes, a man's perspective. So, yes, we have good gift in the house.

We're going to help us. So so what is patriarchy? Because that's the thing always being toxic.

Masculinity is always that's that's in the air right now. Nobody wants to hear the word patriarchy because it's just like, oh, no, that's so mean.

That is so odd. So help us understand in that area. Yeah, well, I can I can help with that.

There's there's basically several different positions as it relates to this topic.

So you have what you might describe as patriarchy. And then you have what's described as complementarianism.

And then, you know what? On the other end of the spectrum, you have something called egalitarianism, essentially.

So egalitarianism is a belief that essentially male and female are interchangeable parts. There's no difference between male and female in terms of their ontology, in terms of their makeup.

The differences are just purely superficial. So that's that's basically what egalitarianism is.

It's based on the assumption that we're just we're basically the same with superficial differences.

You know, basically the only difference is that a woman can make a baby. And that's that's about it.

But then, you know, with the transgender stuff, you know, it really gets confusing at that point. But the differences are.

But leaving that aside, you essentially you have the idea of egalitarianism. And then complementarianism is kind of like a midway point between what you might describe as patriarchy and egalitarianism.

Complementarianism is basically the idea that there are roles, there are real role differences, particularly in the church and the home.

So men and women are made to be complements for each other. And then men are supposed to be leaders in the church and home.

But then there really isn't much of a grounding for that, like in terms of the actual position there.

Meaning like there's no like it's still it's kind of like a halfway position in in the way that actually functions.

Meaning men and women aren't really that different. It's just God has just kind of arbitrarily decided that men should lead.

And particularly in the home and the church. But then beyond that, it's really up in the air. But then, you know, patriarchy is kind of like the, you know, the bugbear, the, you know, the scary man that you want to avoid.

And that's that basically is like, you know, the ire of feminists everywhere. Like everyone, they want to smash the patriarchy.

They hate the patriarchy. And, you know, our country was, you know, it used to be a lot more patriarchal than what it was now.

But patriarchy is just that idea that there are male and female roles. But then if you want to distinguish it from complementarianism at that point, those roles weren't arbitrary.

God designed men and women to fulfill those roles. So God made men to be leaders and he equipped men to be leaders.

And then he made women to be followers and to play a supporting role in that way. And those are tied to the way that God even made us.

And so that that's kind of a short, you know, distinction between those three positions.

But then to a person on the left, basically any complementarians, patriarchy, they can't tell the difference.

It's just anyone who basically dares to suggest that men and women are different, they have different roles. They're just, you know, a problem that needs to be stopped essentially.

You're living like 500 to a thousand years in the past. And we're past all that, right?

Yeah. Wrong side of history. Yeah. Here's some primitive caveman who, you know, can't, you know, tell, you know, that we have electricity now and things like that.

And so things have changed. Yeah. So like, you know, I grew up in Africa.

So that's everybody just knows like men are just in charge. It just comes with the territory.

It's not like a strange thing to have. However, even when men are sort of like in charge, they almost kind of like take kind of like a backseat.

So, for example, it'll be okay. So for them, I'll even use my brothers as an example.

If we're not around, like, you know, I've had two brothers. If we're not around, they're not going to cook for themselves.

They're not going to do anything. And then they're just they're so hungry. And then when we come back with my sister says, oh, why didn't you make something for yourself to eat?

I said, oh, why should I make something for myself for my cook? I have three sisters. And yeah.

And it's just like, OK, fine. You have three sisters. OK, fine. We know we belong in the kitchen. We want to cook. And then, you know, they'll eat and that will just be it.

So that has been that's just normal. It's not going to be a strange thing, like sort of like in an

African home. I know over time things have changed. So whenever you hear that a man is in charge, it's not it's not a surprise.

Yes. Yes. It's not an issue like those are the things. So then there's been a situation whereby this is true because I know where I'm from, right?

Like women, they'll go like, you know, to a witch doctor. They'll go get a concussion over there to give it to their husband so that the husband can be pretty much it becomes

Dosa. So whatever the woman says and then, you know, like, no, I don't want you to be going out drinking with your guys.

And the guy doesn't. He would just be home the whole night. We just did an episode on imprecatory prayers.

So something along those lines. Yeah. So like, you know, those are the solutions that, you know, women will go to the length.

You know what I mean? Just so to quote unquote, to keep their men in check, so to speak. So when I see the stuff that's happening over here,

I'm just like, wow, man, you know, it's kind of different. So I know I wonder that way. So now what about I've always had this question.

So what is your guy's view whenever it comes to the public square? I get it that, OK, in the church, male headship in the home, male headship.

What about in a public square? Like how do you how would you describe it? All right.

So, yeah, I gave you I gave you two. So you have like the complementarian movement and then you have the patriarchy movement in terms of the actual movements themselves.

Now, you know, to a feminist, everyone, they're all patriarchy, OK? Yeah. Yeah. But then like this, this question is basically the major difference between much like the broader complementarian movement and then the patriarchy movement in general.

So those who, you know, take a patriarchal stance, they're basically going to take a stance to say that God has uniquely designed men to be leaders.

And that has implications further than just the church in the home. So, you know, God says to him in Isaiah that, you know, you know, alas, you know, women, women are your rulers and infants are your oppressors.

And so like the idea of a lady ruler, biblically speaking, I mean, to the to the minds of Old Testament saints like this was something that was shameful.

It was something that that God's it was shameful based on the fact that God designed men to lead. And he uniquely equipped them to lead.

And I think there's a lot of reasons why this could be the case. If you just kind of think about it, like think about the way that men and women are made and they're made fundamentally different.

But that would be a patriarchal view. That would be a patriarchal view to say that men and women are different and God's designed them for different tasks.

And then those tasks that he designed for aren't arbitrary, like meaning like if they were arbitrary, he could have just he could have made it the other way.

But then he made men to be unique creatures to lead. And I think like just to explain why it's not arbitrary.

I think you just have to think about the way that men are designed. And so like men are God's designed men to be like to have courage and to have strength and to face like difficult situations.

And if you think about just like the idea of you have to send, you know, your soldiers into war and you're going to lose a thousand men in order to gain a few inches.

That's the kind of thing that you need a man who can shut off all of his emotions and make that kind of decision based on the outcome.

And men are just much, you know, much better designed by God to do that kind of thing. Whereas, you know, ladies are often going to prioritize the emotional impact of a decision to a much greater degree than a man who can just like turn it off and say, we have to do it.

You know, so like then if you're asking the question, like in the public square, like did God design men like uniquely to lead?

You know, those in the patriarchal camp are going to say, yes, he's designed them to lead. And that has implications further than the church and the home.

And then those in the complementarian world is kind of a mixed bag. But for the most part, they're going to say, hey, you know, it could go either way, basically.

Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, especially in the complementarian camp, it's even the ones who do in public teach on, you know, men need to be the leaders of their families.

You hear that a lot, like on Father's Day sermons and whatnot. You hear all about how men need to step up as leaders in their family, which is good.

You know, men need to be encouraged to do that. But then it but then when it comes, you know, when it comes time to tell telling their wives to follow that leadership, for example, a lot of times it's a lot of, hey, you know,

I'm sorry, guys, you know, I didn't make up the rules. I'm just I'm just enforcing them. It's a very apologetic kind of sort of presentation of male leadership.

And I think that's a pretty distinct difference. I grew up thinking that way, thinking men need to lead.

But then, hey, you know, sorry. I hate it as much as you.

It's kind of like a hypothetical situation that should functionally never happen, though. Like in the minds of many, like in the complementarian world.

Like, oh, yeah. Like, like, hey, you know, you need to you need to be such a good husband that it's it's a wife's delight to always follow you.

What woman wouldn't want to follow the kind of man who's leading, loving her like Christ loves his church. Right. Exactly.

The idea, though, is that like if you're if you're leading her perfectly, she should never disagree with you.

She should always want to follow you effortlessly. So there's never like a real submission moment there where she has to do something she doesn't want to do.

So it kind of sounds like you're just saying, do exactly what my wife wants me to do.

Leadership means figuring out what your wife wants to do in every scenario and then deciding to do it.

You know what she says. So but that's what a lot of complementarian kind of leadership actually looks like.

Like you're like the hypothetical tiebreaker in the rare case that you should ever disagree, which should functionally never happen.

Because if you do, you probably haven't lived with her in an understanding way well enough yet.

And so that's just kind of it's just a real soft kind of it's not like initiative. It's not like, you know, having a plan for your home.

It's just you just basically you're trying to figure out how to keep your wife happy. Not to mention, you know, when like if you actually think about leading like Jesus led, you know, that leads you to the obvious conclusion.

Well, what happened to Jesus at the end of his life? I mean, everyone killed him for all the things he was saying.

He loved us like Christ. Even the apostles abandoned him. Even the apostles abandoned him because of everything that was happening to him.

So when so I think, you know, when we say, hey, we need to lead like Christ. We probably need to have a little bit different picture if our idea is the whole.

Oh, our wife will always want to. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think that's where he always comes. I go, you know, you know,

Christ was saving, you know, he was a saving leader. So that's where it always comes from. I think in theory, everything just women can say that men need to lead men.

They say that. But like now when you when you have to put it into practice, because, you know, it's in our nature to take over because that's the curse we got right from Eve.

So in a situation whereby if a guy is not doing anything, if the women are there, the inclination of women is going to to take over.

That's just going to come naturally because of sin. So like if a man is just going to be like, oh, OK, they are already doing it.

Those are the things to me that I do see, because I think sometimes the guys are. I don't know, like I don't want to use the word like scared.

They're passive. They're wimps. Yeah, like they're absolutely the wimps. You're taking, you're taking, why are you taking your time, you know?

Men are tempted in two different ways. So men are tempted towards like absolute passivity in the way that you're describing.

And then on the other end, you know, they're tempted towards, you know, the

Spanish have a word machismo for that. But basically just kind of like, you know, the swagger and the, you know, domineering kind of leadership.

So like men are tempted and men are tempted in both ways. They're either going to be like really passive, like tempted to be really passive or just really kind of domineering.

And like, it's hard to find what to find. Yeah, it definitely is. But yeah, most men right now, most men are very passive.

So you have like like in the church and in the world in general, you have a lot of ladies who are taking charge.

But then like the inverse of that is you have a lot of men who are just like sitting on their butts doing nothing, playing video games all day long and asking their wives permission to go to a different room.

You know, like it's just like it's really bad, like in both ways. And so it's not like it's like it's, you know, passive men and, you know, domineering women.

They're just two sides of the same problem. OK, yeah. So I see. So I guess that's exactly what's going to if men are going to be passive, women are going to be domineering.

So that's just going to feed into, you know, feminism, everything, whatever. Yeah. So that's a very good point that you bring up.

Because like the other instance that I had, you know, been at whatever experience was

OK. So it was like, OK, we're going to do some groups. Right. And there's female and there were men.

So but like, you know, when the groups were formed. Then the next minute it was just like,

OK, so I'm asking, you know, one of the friends was my friend. Like, OK, so what's going on in your group? Oh, yeah.

No, I have to prepare whatever. You know, I have to get ready for the group. I say, what? What do you mean? You have to get ready for the group.

So, yeah, I have to prepare whatever. So I'm like, so you're going to be in the group and you're going to be teaching in the group. And it was innocent on her part.

I knew there were some guys in there. Then I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so bad. They're not even taking initiative that they should leave the group.

And lo and behold, they were sitting in there and the sister was leading the group. And if she's not available, she will let another sister sort of like lead the group.

So but, you know, they're young. The guys are in their 20s. But to me, they may know like, OK, so if they cannot even lead this group, this is something that's so simple.

They don't know that they are already in their 20s. At what point is it going to? You see what

I'm saying? At what point? Yeah, it's a passive bin problem as much as it's a, you know, ladies taking charge problem.

So, I mean, I wouldn't be called dead. I wouldn't, you know.

I mean, I remember, you know, in my early 20s, we me and my younger brother, we just got saved.

And we hadn't had all our theology worked out, but we were as much as we do now. But then, you know, we went to the passion conference because that's what young people did at that time.

Yeah. But then, you know, when Beth Moore got up to teach, we walked out. You know, we went to talk about that was about that was definitely a better time.

We were done. You know, I mean, we knew enough at that point to say, no, this isn't happening. This isn't happening.

So but I mean, you need you need people. You need you need men who have a spine, who said, hey, you know, we're not going to we're not going to go with it.

Well, and I think that's a bit of the issue, too, is, you know, we're living in a society that really tries to completely minimize male leadership in any in any sort of way.

And and almost kind of, you know, bastardize it, like make it this thing that you don't want to ever happen almost.

And you want to celebrate the the women leaders in the world. And you want to elevate their voices and all of the various mantras that that our society uses now.

And so so men are men are to blame when they're passive. It's like they need to step up and they're going to be held accountable for that.

But at the same time, you know, it's hard to it's hard in a certain sense to fault them all the time, because a lot of a lot of people, a lot of men, especially the younger men, have basically their entire lives been raised up in a culture.

That has not that has not pushed them towards leadership in any sort of real way, if that makes sense.

So I think that's part of the issue, too, is just a culture that totally does not wants to get away from male leadership in every way possible because of all of the shortcomings that men can have.

You know, they're they're domineering or, you know, they take advantage of their power, hungry, whatever it is.

You know, our culture wants to get away from that and put women in their place and every single position.

And and so, I mean, obviously, you're going to end up with a whole generation of men that are passive at that point, if that's how you're teaching them and raising them.

You actually. Yeah. I mean, what you have is you have a whole culture right now that is training men to be women and training women to be men.

Right. So the primary thing that you tell women to be is you tell women to be strong and powerful and courageous.

Like that's what you want, like women to be. You want them to be boss babes, you know. So you do.

But then, like, what do you know? How do you train men? And so there's a war that is being waged against young boys.

Like most of the time, like like you have like ladies who really don't understand the way that little boys work.

The little boys have like they're hyper, you know, they they don't sit still, you know. And so you have like a generation of boys that are being drugged by women because women like don't understand that.

Like boys like to fight and they like to play and they like to move around. They have I mean, and that's just a biological reality of having more muscles.

Right. Like you when you have more muscles, you want to use them. And so you have like a generation of boys that are being drugged.

And then they're being like they're being told to get in touch with their like their feminine side and to be sensitive.

And, you know, like, you know, boys cry, too, and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, and like the like the the boys now are being trained, like they're being trained to be girls.

And then the girls are being trained to be boys. And then big surprise when like like in order to be like when they grow up.

That's what they've been taught their whole life is basically they've been taught the reverse role that they're supposed to be having.

And then they get married and then, you know, they're both doing the opposite of what they should be doing in certain ways.

And so but, you know, certainly. Yeah. I mean, it's our culture and society and even the church is feeding into that for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this guy is playing a joke on you, Tim. Hey, hey,

I love women. I married one. That's a good one.

Conley Conley is a friend of our show. Yeah, I figured I figured I figured because he actually singled you out.

I think you got welcome to the channel. So what so how can men step up and take the lead despite this hostile nature right now in our culture?

Because I just don't think that women, given the opportunity, they're not going to sit back, say, like,

OK, men are going to do it. It's in us like we're just going to you know, there's a signature that comes with it, right?

Because, you know, you don't want anybody to tell you what to do. It's hard to submit. You know, it's hard to have that submission, right?

Like you, you know, submit us onto the Lord. So you need to have a change in order for you to submit.

Otherwise, that's not a natural inclination for a woman to want to submit. I think

I think it's not. But then I think it's one of the things my wife says. So anytime people ask my wife, like why she married me, she'll tell them like the first thing she says is like that.

Yeah. Tim was the first person, the first man in her life to ever tell her no. That's what she says.

You know, so like the first guy that was going to ever stand up to her ever, you know, like in her life.

You know, so like there's I mean, I think there's like a there's a you don't have to change everything, you know.

So I think part of this is like men, like you can't change society. And a lot of men get hopeless because they think that they have some sort of responsibility to fix, you know, the massive societal problem.

But but women like women are made to follow. Women are made to follow. And they look for guys with confidence in like like, you know, those guys like the you know, the bad like women attracted to the bad boy guys.

Yeah, they are. They are. They're attracted to them. And the reason why is because those guys have confidence. And so when when a lady is looking at like the bad boy guy who has confidence, who has a plan, who has a direction and who has courage and conviction.

And then she's looking at like the sissy guy over in the corner who cries every time he gets his feelings hurt.

Like she's pulled towards the bad guy. You know, she's not pulled towards Mr. Nice guy kind of guy. She's not, you know, and so like men are being trained to be like just, you know, have the emotional self -control of a five year old girl.

That's what they're trained to do. But women aren't attracted to that. They're attracted to like the the bad boy guys and they'll take the bad boy guys like even though they know they're bad guys.

Yeah, that's just because they have leadership qualities that they're looking for. And so what that tells you, though, is that what that tells you is you don't have to change everything.

Just just start by being like like being a leader, like having initiative, having a plan, being assertive, knowing what you're doing, knowing where you're going.

And like, you know, like women are going to be drawn to that. And it doesn't have to be the distorted version of it.

It needs to be the biblical version of it. But they will be drawn to that. And you don't have to you're not marrying like every woman in the world, you know, in terms of like being a leader in your home.

You're looking for one for one woman. And there's a lot of women out there. You know, I have ladies who contact me all the time and they'll like they just lament the fact that I can't get a man to ask them on a date, you know, in person and things like that.

Just having the initiative to ask them on a date in person, you know, without texting them or and asking them if they want to hang out or something like that.

Like all I'm trying to say is just be a leader. And there's a lot of ladies out there looking for a leader.

If you just be a leader like they'll you'll find there's a lot of ladies who just they're desperate to find one and they'll take the bad guy, you know, because that's that's a lot better than the guy on the other end.

On the quiet thing. Yeah. Go ahead, Harrison. Yeah, I think, too, along with that is just changing the way that you talk about these kinds of things in general as an individual.

Like I said earlier, there's a lot of people out there, especially, you know, Christian leaders who even if they do even if they do take the stand that men are supposed to be the ones that lead most the time, at least.

You know, it comes with like a lot of apologies, a lot of timidness when it comes to discussing the topic.

And I think we just need to get rid of all that, basically, like just just talk about it like any normal, any normal subject.

I mean, like, however, you would talk about, you know, prayer and the Bible or, you know, here's how we read the

Bible or whatever. Just talking about just talk about male leadership and, you know, female submission in that way.

Like quit quit treating words like submission like they're bad words, you know, like you just cussed in front of your grandma or something.

It's just a normal word that has a normal meaning that is used in the Bible and a positive light.

And so we should just we should treat it the same way God treats it, basically, and and not be ashamed of that either and not feel like you have to incessantly apologize or, you know, make every sort of make every sort of qualification for it before you make any statement about any sort of male leadership.

Just just talk about it like a normal topic, you know, and and the best way to do that is by listening to our podcast, because we will definitely we'll definitely we'll train you in that.

Yeah, they'll train you. Yes, guys. Anybody in here who haven't subscribed, be sure to subscribe. I put all the description in the links.

So like, so, so now do you think these things that women can do to help men in this area, or what are the do's and the don'ts that, you know, women we find ourselves doing that we might think it's helpful, but it's not the do's and the don'ts.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a sense in which we did a series of podcast on, you know, what do

I do if my week I call it, what do I do if my worthless husband won't lead? And there were, we gave a lot of tips related to that kind of thing.

But I mean, I think, you know, like ladies, they do have to want to follow. And, you know, a lot of times when you have a real passive guy, what's actually happening in those kind of situations is you have a guy who basically has made it his mission to figure out, like, how to make you happy.

And so like, there's a lot of like, I think a lot of like young couples, particularly young Christian couples, the guy thinks like he's bought all the servant leader stuff.

And he's, he's basically, he basically thinks that leading means trying to figure out how to make my wife happy.

And then like what leadership is in his mind is just basically asking his wife, like, what do you want to do?

So like, where do you want to eat today? Or what do you want to watch today? Or where do you want to go today? And like, that's nice.

That's selfless. That's sacrificial. That's great. But then what's functionally happening in that framework is a wife is basically being asked to make every decision.

And it can be real stressful to be the one to have to decide everything. And there's something that feels really imbalanced about that.

And that can kind of like, there's a sense in which ladies, they want that.

But then if they get that, then the guy kind of becomes emasculated in their eyes. Like they conquered him.

Right. I conquered you. Like, you're a real nice guy. You're sweet. But you're not, like,

I don't feel safe with you leading because you're not leading. You're just asking me to lead at that point.

And I think like what ladies, like practically what ladies can do is they can just refuse to play that game.

You say, hey, you're the leader. You tell us what we're doing. Or just let the whole thing go. Burn if it has to burn.

Yeah. I'm just saying like if he's coming up to you and asking you, what do we do? What do you say? Hey, you're the leader.

You tell me. And then like practically, you know, what she could do is to go up to her husband on a regular basis and say, hey, what do you think we should do about this?

You know, what do we think we should do about this? And if a guy who's been trained to kind of be a follower, he's going to say,

I don't know. What do you think? And at that point, you stand your ground. You say, I'm asking you. You're the leader. You know, like you're a leader.

What do we do here? You know, and so like you don't have to resent that. You can just realize that there's something imbalance that's happening in your home and go out of your way to say,

I'm not going to feed into this. And then, I mean, I think just like there's a lot of.

So that's the kind of girl that's kind of girl who wants to who says, hey, like my husband isn't leading like he should.

And and I'm contributing to it. But then like there's a lot of ladies out there who just they don't even they're not even processing this as a goal.

Essentially, it's just all about them and their relationship. And like those those kind of ladies, like, you know, they're basically going to say, like, they're going to be the kind of ladies who are micromanaging where their husband parks and things like that.

Like, I guess, like, hey, you know, like and then, you know, if he doesn't park where she wants him to park, then it's going to be like, you don't love me and you're not living with me in a way.

And don't you care about me? It's like you got to relax, just let the man move, you know, let him make a park, let him figure out.

They're probably the ones driving at that point, too. But they put him in the passenger seat.

But I mean, like, you know, you do you do have to ask. I mean, I think the ladies do have to ask, like, like, is this like.

Like, do I really need to like if I'm a follower, like my primary posture should be to follow where my husband's going, not just challenging every step of the way, like picking at every decision he makes, make it hard, if that makes sense.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That's good. OK, so I had seen this tweet.

I'm going to read it. Can you guys see him? Yes. Yeah. So this is I'm not

I don't know who this guy is. Colin Smothers was communicating with Christine Dumas. OK, I'm sure you guys are familiar with Colin.

Yeah, I went to seminary with him at Southern. We went the same time and we also went to the same church.

But he's still over at Southern at this point. OK, so this was it said over here.

Great article, Dr. Moore. Now, please get off that list of 53 male on a TGC board and council members or insist that women are included.

How are you still supporting that a coalition of the gospel be led by just me? So this is

Christine Dumas. So you guys are very much familiar that Jesus and John Wayne.

Yes, the Jesus and John Wayne. What did that say right underneath it? Excluding women from the ministry.

It says it's excluding women from. It sounds rather anti -gospel.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's anti -gospel. Everything is crazy.

It's great. You know, this is this is just a crazy coincidence. But it's so wild to me how every, you know, talking point from the left in general, it ends up being anti -gospel when you're against it, no matter what it is.

It's anti -gospel. It's crazy how that works out. But I just I thought I saw that.

So I wanted to make sure that I read it right. No, no. That says that they had to go. I didn't even go that further because it's just like,

OK. But, you know, so this I bring that up because she professes to be a

Christian. OK. And obviously, that's a charge to Dr. Moore.

And then no idea. I don't think that he responded, nor that he would respond. But I have seen him being in this situation where.

Women are appealing to him, even like when Beth Moore left the

SBC, Russell Moore came saying, like, you know, there's no there's no SBC if SBC doesn't have

Beth Moore. You know what I mean? A convention that doesn't have a have a place for Beth Moore is a convention that doesn't have a place for a lot of us.

Yes, exactly. You know, so like to me, I'm like, OK, so these are guys who are theologians of our day.

Right. They're over there at the top. So why are they. Why are they doing that?

You know, like, you know, I don't want him to be hitting women. I want him to support women. But you cannot be entertaining somebody like Beth Moore, who we clearly know, by the way, is to be a fan of Beth Moore.

OK, so just for the record, we all have our deep, dark sins that we had to repent of when we came to Christ.

Deep, dark sins. Oh, Kiana, come get Harrison out of here, man.

So now when I see things like those, he will have no leg to stand on to, you know, to call out women who are not in their proper domain.

I mean, like Beth Moore now, she outright, she preaches to men, she no longer hides about that. Yeah, it's so it's an interesting move that they've made, and part of this is related to the complimentary and patriarchy discussion.

But, you know, the strategy was never like at the very beginning just to go straight to female pastor.

Like that wasn't that wasn't really the strategy that any of them are operating under. It's always like, you know, there's moves to get there.

And the first move to get there was basically just to take like complementarianism and basically just make it as empty, you know, a concept as you can possibly get.

Right. So basically you have like the idea is just OK, just in the church, just in church leadership.

Men are supposed to lead and then in the home. But then beyond that, like it doesn't matter.

And so the strategy is always to go go for the parachurch organizations first. OK.

And the conference is first. And so, you know, you had Beth Moore preaching at Passion Conference for years and years and years. And so then the argument is basically, well, it's not the church.

Right. So it's not the church. Yeah. So it's a parachurch. Right. So you make the parachurch organization.

And then what you do, like the parachurch organization doesn't isn't like you made it up. Right. It's not like a biblical thing.

And then then what you do is you violate all the rules that happen in the church, in the home, in the parachurch organization.

And then the next step is you're going to go full women preacher like that's the next step. And so so like you do that with the conferences and then you do that with the board of the

Gospel Coalition. It's like, well, it's not a church. So women can be leading. Women can also save. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Women can lead in the parachurch organization because there aren't biblical qualifications for the parachurch organization.

So what you do is you create the parachurch organization. Then you like use that as a workaround to violate the principles.

Right. That were at play there. And then it's just like then you put the pressure on that. But then the problem is you have guys like Russell Moore who are trying to he's trying to play both sides of the fence, but they're not having it.

Right. So he's trying to do everything he can to show himself to be kind and soft and gentle and patient and loving and affirming to women.

But then like he's never going to meet all their demands. Right. Because the demand is to get them into the like to have full women pastors.

And until he does that, like they're going to be you know, you're just playing a losing game. You might as well stand on the scriptures there at that point.

Yeah. Tim and I are in Alabama and in Alabama, there's this. Have you ever heard of the saying, you know, boiling a frog?

Have you ever. Oh, yeah. Then he jumps out. Yeah. No, the water is boiling, but he doesn't know the water is getting hot.

Right. Yeah. When you boil when you boil a frog, you don't you don't throw it in the boiling water. You put it in normal room temperature water and slowly turn the heat up.

And that's essentially what's happened in the church. And it's what Tim is describing. And, you know, it starts out with the parachurch organizations.

But then it ends with the SBC at their annual meeting saying we need to form a committee to to define what a pastor is.

You know, and which is, frankly, an absolutely embarrassing. I mean, if if you have to form a committee to to figure out what the definition of a pastor is, then that's one of those.

Like, if you have to ask, you don't you probably don't deserve to fill the role. Yeah, I think

Harrison and I, we Harrison and I were at that convention in Birmingham. I think it was the one at Birmingham where Russell Moore was basically saying a convention that doesn't have a place for Beth Moore doesn't have a place for a lot of us.

We were there at that time at the convention. But we've since, you know, not disassociated herself from the

SBC, but it's it's a mess for sure. Yes, yes, yes. But I love the

SBC. It's a nice drama. I enjoy it. You like watching the circus?

Yes, because it's so unbelievable. You know what I mean? You like it because it provides content for you. Yeah, it sure does.

We know what's going on. You cannot make their stuff up honestly, to be honest with you guys, like the stuff that whatever, like before, you know,

I kept I used to tell my husband this, whatever happened. My husband's just like, no, baby, I don't think

I don't think that's how it is. You must be. I said, baby, that's exactly what happened. And then I'm showing him his video and then he's just shaking his head.

I like it. Does everybody know this? I'm like, yeah, that's the thing. In fact, that's how I ended up starting my channel when

Ed Lytton prejudiced himself. I was telling my husband, I said, babe, I need to do a video about this thing, because like this is so you cannot make these things up that people don't like their own salmon.

So it was it was crazy. So I appreciate this. Thank you.

Oh, yeah, I know. I know, I know, I know. All right, moving on.

Oh, like I'm carried away over here. So the other question that I did have. So how is this?

No, let me miss. So what are the. No, we already talked about the practical things that you guys have talked about.

OK, so what about this issue that's going on these days? I'm sure you've heard about it.

Now there's a lot of sex abuse scandals. The things that have come up, obviously, you know, there's some stuff that came up with the

SBC. You know, there's women out there who are getting abused. I don't deny that.

But. There has been instances where if a woman claims that they've been abused, there's you can never ask another question, because if you ask a follow up question, which means you don't believe, which means, you know, this idea, believe all women.

You ask the question. You don't believe women. Right. So I'm saying that because men are not asking whatever any questions a woman is not going to ask the question, because like everybody's going to look at you like, oh, why are you questioning another woman?

So it's almost it's like if a woman raises up their hand, like, oh, women, you're supposed to team up.

And the last thing a guy is going to do is to ask any question in there. So either men are going to be silent or they're just going to believe the story.

And there's been incidences that have happened later on. They investigated the thing. There was there was nothing there, but all along men supported it.

And I haven't had any man denouncing some of these things like, oh, you know what we we were believing that woman before.

But no, this is not what happened. It just carries on to our next subject as if nothing happened.

Right. Right. Well, yeah, the current rules of the game are that you're not really allowed to ask any questions.

And so once a person identifies as a victim in any way, and there's a lot of victim category. I mean, we live in a victim society right now and the same the same kind of dynamic is at work.

And a lot of the psychological discussion that's at work in the intersectional kind of discussion. And it's at work in the sex abuse kind of discussion.

But basically the rules are you have to believe the victim and then you have you can't shame the victim.

And then you have to basically do whatever they say and just accept whatever, you know, whatever course of action they want to that point.

But then the problem is that you don't like, you know, in this kind of discussion, you really don't know who the victim actually is. And that's just the unpopular question that you're not allowed to ask.

So, I mean, Potiphar's wife is a real thing. And like that, that actually happened. And so then, you know, if like one of the things that people don't have any taste for this, because there's this demand that you have to fix this problem absolutely right now.

And you don't have a category for God sorting it out one day. But the problem is that if the rules of the game are that women don't lie about rape, if that's the rules, women don't lie about rape.

Ignore Potiphar's wife for a second. Like women don't lie about it. And then you have to believe them or else you're re -victimizing them.

Like you're re -victimizing. Like if that's the rules, then I mean, basically like every pastor in America is toast.

Because all it takes is just for someone to get mad at them and make an accusation. And like you have a structure that you've set up that basically means that they're guilty.

Like it's a witch hunt. This is how a witch hunt works. And so like if you set up like witch hunt rules, then you're going to get witch hunts.

And so basically like the rules of the game are right now that if you make an accusation, an accusation constitutes as absolute proof of guilt.

And you know, biblically speaking, like that's just not the way it works. Like you don't accept the accusation against an elder on the basis of one witness.

Like you have to have two or three witnesses that corroborate an accusation at that point.

You have to have a fair trial. You know, our country is based on the presumption of innocence. Like you can't just overturn the entirety of the legal system just because you're trying to fix a problem.

Like that's not the way it works. And so in this way, like, yes, I think there's a lot of problems in this area that need to be addressed.

But you don't address them by creating a new problem. I can say you don't address like problems of sex abuse by creating a situation where, you know, one accusation constitutes like definitive proof.

And I mean, if that's what you do, I mean, like Satan has, you know, gave us a great mechanism basically to destroy every church in America at that point.

So like if those are the rules, you just make an accusation. Everyone believes you and supports you.

And, you know, guy steps down from ministry. At that point, you just like, I mean, that's what they do to politicians every time.

You know, that's what they do to every conservative Supreme Court justice. You know, like you throw out the accusation.

But if those are the rules, like you have a tool that you can use to do whatever you want with. And like that's that's just not the way it works.

And so, yes, I mean, I think you should believe the victim. But then you need a fair trial to figure out who that victim is.

So you need to figure out, like, is the victim like the one making the accusation or is the victim the one being accused?

You know, because it could very well be that you're talking about Joseph right there, too. So, you know, part of that's part of the discussion.

And then the other part of the discussion is, is like the nature of like, how does rape work? You know, so like we use terms like abuse, but we should be using terms like rape because rape is like a better term.

And so you have like situations, particularly the SBC, where you have like a 26 -year -old woman.

I can't remember what the. Yeah, Jennifer. Jennifer. Yeah, I mean, you have a 26 -year -old woman who's like claiming to be raped.

But this is not a child. Yeah, for 12 years, this is not a child, you know. And so, you know, you have biblical responsibilities to cry out at that point.

And so whatever that was, that wasn't like whatever those categories are, you know, power and everything else.

That's not a biblical view of how these things work. You're indolent. You're responsible before God. And so essentially what you have is you have, you know, across the board as it relates to this discussion, just a wholesale refusal to listen to what the

Bible says on this topic. Related to just defining your terms and then like, how do you figure out what's right?

Yeah. And I think what I've noticed, especially going back to the SBC, what

I've noticed is whenever you have these kinds of conversations, you know, it's not that one side is like pro -rape and the other one is not, you know, like one side's against it.

One side's for it. That's not what's happening here. What's actually happening is you have two sides who are both saying,

OK, we, you know, we all acknowledge that this is a sin when it does happen. And, you know, we need to do what we need to do our due diligence and protecting everyone involved.

Right. But then what but then, you know, when you have someone come along and and the

SBC has put in certain parameters that they think are going to be, you know, wise and beneficial.

I doubt it seriously, but that's what they've decided. And then if you were to come along and critique that, there's really no conversation to be had because you're immediately put into a category of, you know, pro -sexual abuse.

You want women to be harmed. You just want to protect all of the men no matter what they do.

And it's like and, you know, I just don't know how you can have any sort of kind of productive conversation about, you know, let's you know, let's let the

Bible tell us how to handle these kinds of situations when you immediately put anyone who disagrees with you into that camp.

I just don't know how you can even have a conversation at that point. Well, you can't. I mean, it's designed to be a witch hunt, you know, right?

It's working because you have men leading the charge in these whatever these abuse tax force.

Right. So it's men who are helping validating these things that women are saying.

Like, that was a very good example that you gave about the Potiphar. So, you know, some men could actually be innocent.

But once a woman says it, I think that's just about it. It's done. It's sort of like done. Yeah. So like, yeah, it's.

You're basically I mean, the problem is, then, like, if you say, hey, that's a possibility that you should budget for then instantaneous, like meaning like I don't.

OK, I hear an accusation. I don't know the truth at the very beginning. Yes. So you have to like if you if you're going to be impartial, what you have to do is you have to say it could be true or it could be false.

Like because like this could be Joseph, right, or this could be someone like or not, you know, so like I don't

I don't know what situation I'm in. And in order to execute justice, you have to be blind. You have to you have to consider that the evidence could, you know, the first to plead their case seems right to another one comes along to examine them.

Evidence can go either way. But then if there's a demand instantaneously, you must believe the accuser or else you're victimizing them.

And then in that kind of framework, there's no way to pursue justice because you then are you are guilty of a monstrous attack on not just this woman, but every other woman out there who's been abused just by virtue of trying to follow a procedure.

Right. That that can lead to the the most godly outcome and righteous outcome.

And so like this is this is not the way things work. I mean, this is how you work up a mob, you know, and that's why I use the witch example, because I mean, like that's what you do, like in a witch hunt.

You basically just say, you know, burn the witch. Right. And this is going to bind them, you know, tie them up, throw them in the

I mean, and this is essentially what people are doing in these kind of scenarios. It's like you tie them up, you throw them in the river if they float.

Right. Oh, yeah. Which if they think, well, oops, you know. And so like so but that's that's essentially what's happening is like you just you like you make the accusation and then, you know, if they protest and say, hey,

I didn't do it or whatever, then like they're engaging in denial. But there's no way. It's just like basically what you're doing is you're throwing them in the river tied up.

And like if you if you think that's the only way out for this is for you to sink and die. And that's, you know, and then then we so like the only way out is for you to resign your job and accept what's being said.

And then there's no there's no like there's no like this is not justice, you know, so like you can you can say, hey, we got to fix this problem.

And we need to take steps to fix this problem without setting up a system that's going to just do more harm than good.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So like, do you think that there is a need now for churches to be just to be proactive about these things?

Because this stuff is not going to end here. This stuff is coming because, you know, people are going, you know, 10, 20 years ago, the stuff that happened, stuff is resurfacing and these things are happening in the church.

We already know stuff that happens in the public square, like what happened to the to the chief justice.

Right. Just like I could not even believe that. I'm like, OK, what happened when he was a lawyer?

Nobody came up when he was a judge. Nobody came up. Now he's going to the Supreme Court. You're going to go things that happened to high school.

Like so those are the things that are happening and our society is accepting and they now enter the things that are going on in the church as well.

So like, is there a need for, you know, like churches just to be proactive like women?

You know, we want you to be protected. But just because you say X, Y, Z, that doesn't mean we're just going to you know, we're going to apply biblical principles.

It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. I think, yeah, you need to take your you know, you need to take your marching orders from the scripture and the scripture has processes that are outlined for this kind of thing.

And, you know, I think part of what's happening is that there's the more secular our society gets, there's there's not this sense anymore that God will sort it out one day.

So there's a justice now. Yeah. Yeah. You need to have justice now and it needs to be absolute justice right now and perfect justice now.

And, you know, like our whole legal system in America is based on the presumption of innocence, meaning like it would be better for like, you know, our system is set up that it'd be better for 100 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be punished wrongly.

But what's happened is we've shifted to the other extreme right now and we'd rather like 10, like 100 innocent people be punished than one guilty person go free.

And so in that kind of environment, there's a demand for sweeping changes to the processes and the procedures in order to show yourself to be sensitive.

But then you have to take a step back and you have to say, hey, which worldview do you want? You get what I'm saying?

And like the other worldview was based on the idea that no one's ever going to get away from it. They're like they're not going to ever no one's ever going to truly get away, get away with it.

God is just he sees all and he's going to fix it and we're going to leave it to him. And so we leave vengeance to God.

And what you have in this current situation is a demand for like absolute justice, do whatever it takes to get justice here and now.

But this is a problem that's as old as, you know, as old as sin, like it's not going to go away. Like this is always going to be a problem to one degree or another.

And if you if you're going to try to like if you're going to try to root it out completely and totally, the only thing you're going to do is basically set up a system that's going to basically throw a hundred hundred innocent men in jail, you know, in order to make sure that you don't let one guilty person go free.

And so I don't know. I think there's a there's biblical prescriptions on these things and we need to follow those and we need to trust in those.

And we need to like take a step back and like examine like what our goal is here. Right. You know, is our goal, our goal to be faithful or is our goal just to, you know, realize the millennial kingdom here now or whatever, depending on your eschatology.

But I mean, like, what are you trying to do? Like, are you trying to have heaven on earth right now? Or are you trying to like just let

God be God and let him deal with it? And, you know, so, yeah, I mean, I don't think you're ever going to be able to set up any system where, you know, no one is tempted to sin ever and falls into sin.

You know, so I think you have to be more realistic in that way. Yeah. And I think a lot of a lot of churches really have abandoned the marching orders that the

Bible has given us for these kinds of things. Right. So because now, you know, part of this comes from it is difficult.

You know, it's obviously like a very undesirable. It's a tragic situation.

Yeah. You have to find yourself in, you know, as a as a victim of that or as, you know, a family member of the victim or a church leader of the victim or whatever.

But then but then even though it's tragic, you still have to do your do the best you can to get the evidence that you need in order to prove these kinds of things.

So, like in the Old Testament, women, you know, they had a responsibility to cry out.

Right. Tim, Tim, you had mentioned that or alluded to it earlier, but then women did have a responsibility to cry out when something like that happened.

And the purpose of that was so that the man would be caught by other by other people who were around.

And so we have you know, we have modern versions of that. I mean, you can go and get tests run.

Yeah. And whatnot that are that are, you know, pretty. I'm not like a scientist, so I don't know how accurate they are all the time, but that's obviously better than than waiting 20 years.

Right. And and then all you have is basically he he said, she said. And, you know, basically at that point, you're just asking a you're just asking a church who might be trying to enforce church discipline or or the legal system to essentially lower their standards below what is normal for any other kind of sin or any any other sort of law that's broken.

And so I think I think we really do need to take seriously what the Bible says.

We need to encourage women to, you know, like not just not just throw out the accusation, but then do their best to actually get the evidence necessary to prove it.

Because obviously you want to if someone if someone does something like that, if they commit that kind of sin towards a woman, then they need to be caught.

And they will they will be one day they will for sure be one day and they won't be able to escape

God's judgment. But then we need to do the best we can here now to provide that evidence so that they can be caught now, you know, to bring justice for the victim, but then also to prevent the same thing from happening in the future.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. I do also think because right now, like you guys shared, we live in a victim culture.

So victim culture believe all women. There are no I haven't seen any consequences for women who have, you know, make the accusations and then things have turned out to be false things.

Yeah, the Bible said, I mean, justice is that whatever you thought would be done, whatever you were seeking to do to the person would be done to you.

And that's where, like, you know, if you thought that whatever you're trying to have happen to this person that you're making an accusation against would would have to happen to you.

That's the definition of biblical justice. And if you thought that that would caution you as in, you know, making flippant accusations.

But right now, what you're what you're describing is a situation where there's no repercussions for making a false accusation at all.

And in that kind of scenario, like there's no repercussions for making a false accusation. And then you're it's demanded that everyone believe you.

I mean, you just have a tool to destroy any ministry you want to destroy at this point. Just get, you know, and I mean, you know, we've made plenty of people mad at us, like in the course of just saying some of the stuff we've said.

Like if if that's all it takes is just for someone to just like like we've made like we've made some ladies on Twitter so mad at us that like they literally can barely see straight anymore.

And like in this, I mean, so mad at us. I mean, they would be one of these ladies who if they if they knew that they could just sign up to, you know, destroy our lives by making accusations.

There'd be a line, you know, there'd be a long line. Yeah, you know, and I read every now and then

I'll see a news article where some, you know, some guy has been released from prison after it's, you know, it's come to light that the accusations leveraged against him were not true.

You know, they were disproven. And I've seen I thought this I've seen a lot of people commenting on those kinds of articles saying things like I can't you know,

I can't believe a woman would ever do that. And that, you know, that lady or those women, they need to have the same thing happen to them that happened to this guy.

They need to go to jail for 20 years or whatever it is. And I always think to myself, honestly, you are probably the same people who are saying we need to believe those women, you know, 20 years ago when they were first leveraging the accusations.

You're the same people that were probably saying with no evidence, you know, just a just a claim.

And that's it. You are probably saying we just need we need to believe those women. And you would have thrown him in jail to the

Amber Heard and the Johnny Depp stuff, you know? Yeah, I know. It's like, yeah, the same group, you know, it's just a flip flop, you know, flip them.

Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah, man. I binged. I watched that try. I'm like,

I'm sitting there. I'm like, this woman is lying. And then she quote unquote had evidence. Right. She had pictures with her face bruised the whole nine years.

I'm like, man, it's just even like when they found Johnny Depp not guilty, they're still accusing

Johnny Depp. They're still like, OK, just like just forget about it, you know? So, yeah.

Hollywood women. No, that's just like, no, they came out like you've received your award.

You've all you've been successful. You know, these are the things you have to do to make it at the top. Now you want to say what?

Just like now, man, it's it's it's a lie. I just saw even an article.

Was it yesterday or the other day? Angelina Jolie is talking to a magazine says like Brad Pitt used to abuse her.

I just like everyone used to abuse everyone. Everyone's abused everyone at this point.

Yeah. Yeah. Hollywood. Yeah. No, not good at all. Not good at all.

So like, you know, so what are the resources that you guys you can recommend for men, for women to help us in this area?

If you guys have any. Which which area? Which are we talking about the whole conversation?

Yes. Like, you know, the male headship because, you know, men need to be doing what men are supposed to be doing.

Women are supposed to be doing what they're supposed to be doing. So are there some resources that can help us like a book or any recommendation?

I like a lot of I like a lot of the Doug Wilson stuff. So I like a lot of his stuff.

You know, I'll be honest with you. I recommend a lot of his him and his daughter's stuff. I can turn. Yes. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That that that film they did even exile.

Yeah. Yeah. Even exile reforming marriage. Like there's a lot of a lot of good stuff. And they're writing a lot of good stuff on this topic.

But that doesn't make make everyone a lot of friends. But they have a lot of good stuff. I like that guy.

No, he's a very controversial figure. Just like there's some good.

I like, you know, I like Stuart Scott's book, Exemplary Husband, Martha Peace, Excellent Wife. She's she's good,

Martha. She's. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, let's just say she didn't like even exile. I wonder why you didn't like even exile.

She portrayed herself that she got it together. They're not for everyone.

I was going to say, too, in terms of whenever you're looking for stuff, if you if you find yourself listening to someone who sounds like they're apologizing a lot when it comes to the subject.

They're probably not the person that you want to listen to, because, number one, they're not even they're not even demonstrating, you know, really strong male leadership in themselves.

But then they're probably going to, you know, not really push you in the way that you need to be pushed in light of what our society thinks about all of this.

And there's a good chance that they might not actually be following it themselves. And so they're not going to really be the best resource for you in terms of helping you learn how to do it from a practical from a practical standpoint.

This is a pretty. Yeah, it's a pretty interesting point there, like in terms of the people who apologize for male female roles on a regular basis.

Like it's it's been a funny thing to watch because I I intuitively I don't trust pastors when they start apologizing.

Yeah. Like, oh, you know, like I didn't write it, you know, and that like I just I intuitively

I've never trust those kind of guys. But then, you know, try to qualify it to death and just won't just say it.

This is frequently something that, you know, people react to me and to us and like some of the stuff we do along these lines, because like we you know, you can you can watch our stuff and you can see that we're not we're not like angry, you know, woman haters or whatever.

Like we're not like. But I mean, we talk frankly about these issues and people that's good.

They just think like, man, like if you're not falling over yourself, like apologizing and qualifying everything to death, it must be, you know, you hate women or whatever else or something like that.

And it's just like, man, like what you need is you need people who believe these things and they believe them so much that they're willing to say them.

They believe that they're true, like and they're not going to like they're not going to apologize for anything. God says they're going to say it and like be, you know, straight about it.

And I think that we need we need a lot more people who are bold. Oh, yeah. With this topic for sure.

And I know I know it's kind of a cliche thing to say, but it's true. Like, I mean, just look at the

Bible. Look at what the Bible says. And, you know, a lot of a lot of people, like we said earlier, a lot of people kind of they have the whole, you know, if you are leading like Christ, then your wife, she would have no issue following you.

But then the problem with that is obviously the disconnect with what what actually happened to Jesus in the

Bible. So look at the Bible. You know, I think I think you need to I think you need to have checks and balances in place, you know, guys that are going to hold you accountable.

But then at the same time, you need to be the kind of person who is leading, like how you see, you know, the prophets, the apostles,

Christ himself, how they were leading. They were not always liked people, you know, they it wasn't some flowers and rainbows and everyone's happy all the time.

I mean, I mean, Paul, Paul laid into the churches, you know, but he but he loved them probably more than any other person, you know, besides Christ, obviously.

And so, you know, you know that he loved them. But then, I mean, he just let them have it, you know. And and so I think

I think we've kind of lost that sort of perspective of the Bible and we've traded it in for everything's nice and flowery and sunshine and rainbows.

Yeah, because that's not considered loving whenever you be honest like that. It's not considered loving.

This is Kiana. She's actually in Alabama. So this is your neighbor out there in Alabama talking about intersectionality over here.

I'm doubly oppressed. You need to get baptized. Hey, we did an episode on safe spaces pretty recently.

You need a safe space. No, it's funny.

I know she's joking, but I mean, the safe space stuff is so and you don't grow and you're not changed and you don't you're not challenged if you're constantly having to be protected from disagreement at all points in time.

And, you know, we need a lot more people who are willing to have courage and to have strength and to go into dangerous territory.

And it doesn't bode well on us as a society. We all think that we need to be protected from words and concepts that we disagree with.

For sure. We need more elephant skin. Yeah. More elephant skin. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. So, yeah. You know, last words, guys. Anything that you know to close this out? You know,

I think in closing, just to kind of wrap up the conversation here. I think at the end of the day, people just need to sometimes we like to look at the

Bible and make things a little more complicated than they really have to be and really more complicated than what the

Bible presents them as. And we do that because we're tempted. You know, we want we're most of us are people pleasers and we want to be liked by the world because it obviously makes living this life easier in some superficial ways.

Being liked by this world does. But we know the Bible says, you know,

God says, you know, for the person who's seeking the glory of men, you know, they've already received their reward in the praise of men.

Right. But not the praise of God. And so when it comes to this conversation about, you know, men and women's roles, it's simple.

The Bible spells it out and it's clear. It's not confusing. You know, there's nothing in there.

There's nothing in the Bible that you should should lead us to say, well, hang on. You know, maybe this isn't conclusive.

You know, maybe maybe God just didn't really want us to know. No, he made it. He made it really clear. He made it really clear.

And we just need to be OK with that. And we just, you know, like, forget what the world thinks. Forget what they say.

They're wrong. They don't have the Bible. They don't have, you know, they don't have that sort of knowledge.

The spirit has not revealed that to them. They're blind. They're totally blind. So ignore ignore them.

Trust in what the Bible says. And, you know, question question the people who try to make it confusing.

Question the people who try to bring up every single, you know, qualification for it or every single, you know, well, what about this or what?

What about that kind of situation? And all of these very specific sorts of reasons why you might not have men leading the way that they should and can't just speak generally.

But you should that should be red flags. And and so, you know, there's a lot there's a lot of other things that in the

Bible, other topics that are, you know, for for for God, they're not complicated.

But then for us, they can sometimes be pretty complicated, you know, for whatever reason. But then this is a very simple one.

So let's just treat it as a simple one. I think a young man.

I didn't see this one. It says to ask a question about a young man thinks he's a eunuch.

Thinks he's a eunuch. I feel like that's normally something, you know, gift of celibacy.

Yeah. What does I have no idea what that means. Neurodivergent.

Gift of celibacy. Yeah, with with the gift of celibacy, there's there's a lot of men who

I think I think right now a lot of a lot of people are frustrated with the ability they have to find spouses.

And so a lot of them are tempted towards singleness in that way, because it's a lot harder to meet people.

Things are becoming increasingly impersonal in a lot of ways. And, you know, a lot of people are finding having to find, like, dates and online at this point.

And so this is a common question that young people ask, particularly when they're frustrated with their inability to find a spouse.

They basically start asking these questions like, am I cursed? And do I have the gift of singleness or celibacy?

And then when you have like when a lot of them are essentially being taught that they can get like a certain kind of theology that says that, hey, like, if you don't go be a missionary somewhere and that you're wasting your life and that kind of stuff.

And so so there's a lot of people who are just unable to find a spouse, wondering if they're single.

And then there's a spiritual pressure that maybe the godliest person is just going to go do something radical with their life or something like that.

Right. And so with those kind of people, they're asking, like, do I have the gift of singleness? And most of the time,

I mean, like the people who have the gift of like celibacy are not the ones who want to be married, but can't.

They're not the ones who are struggling week in and week out with unmet sexual desires and don't know what to do with them and are trying to essentially fight them with everything they have.

Like the kind of person who has that gift of singleness is the kind of person who really does want to devote themselves to God's kingdom.

And like the apostle Paul, it would be a distraction to be married because they want to give everything they have to it.

So, I mean, Paul evangelized a known world because he was not tied down by a wife and a family.

And he was but I mean, like, think about his life. He was frequently beaten with rods and thrown into prison and left for dead shipwrecked.

This isn't the kind of thing you want to take a family on. So the kind of person who wants to devote their entirety of their life to advancing

God's kingdom with no distractions and could do so without being burdened by overwhelming sexual lust and temptation.

That's the kind of person that like the gift of celibacy has in mind. Is there another?

Do you think it's possible some men may think they are eunuch because of the current day of contention between men and women?

And also, how would you counsel such a man? Yeah, I would counsel like such a man like to say like because they think that maybe they should have this gift of singleness because men and women are so at odds.

I would basically counsel like a kind of person like if you're free from like if you if you if you're free from sexual desire and free from sexual temptation, like then you might be thinking along those lines.

But then you need to be gifted to like advance the gospel. And so you need to like these like the kind of people who have this gift are kind of people who are freed from sexual temptation and want to give their life to advancing the gospel.

And if that's not you, like if you're struggling week in and week out with your lust, this isn't you.

And like the counsel I have for you at that point, most of the people I've talked to are like 99 percent of the people are not this kind of person.

Like the counsel is just, hey, you know, be responsible, get married, you know, start making responsible choices in your life.

Get out of your parents' basement, go get a job, you know, quit playing video games all day long, you know, find a get a career, you know, get ready.

Buy a house, you know, get ready. And, you know, so like make yourself ready to provide for a family.

And you might be surprised at how many women are out there desperate for that kind of guy, you know.

So instead of fussing about like, oh, there's no one out there, make yourself into the kind of guy that women will look to and see.

And those kind of guys are the guys who have initiative and, you know, take and know how to be leaders and have a plan and are confident, you know.

And you can be, you know, a shy person and still be confident, you know. So don't worry about it. But yeah, that would be part of how

I would respond. That's good. That's good.

Kiana, what are you doing? We need to put you in tab out. Swipe love.

She doesn't have a gift to sing. Someone marry that girl. Someone marry that girl.

She does not. Someone marry her. But yeah,

I think wrapping up, you're asking about wrapping up. Yes. Go ahead. I think there's definitely, you're definitely living in a female -ruled society right now.

So we've successfully smashed the patriarchy as a society, and we're living in a matriarchy right now. But it's not,

I mean, I think people can overstate the nature of the problem, like in terms of, like it is a problem.

I mean, it's obviously a problem. It's the air we breathe. It's all around us and everything else. But there's still 7 ,000 people who haven't bowed the knee to bail out there.

There's still godly people out there. So you just look for faithful people and be a faithful person yourself.

And it doesn't do any good for a man just to fuss and whine about all the crazy women out there.

They're not all crazy. I mean, there's a lot of crazy women out there, and there's a lot of crazy men out there. But they're not all crazy. And so if you're fussing about it, that doesn't fix anything.

That doesn't help anything. You're just a whiny baby. Just stop it. But seriously,

I mean, just be a leader. Take initiative. Be responsible. Love the Word of God.

Know the Word of God. And the best thing you can do is read the Bible and read the Bible and read the Bible and read the

Bible and read it until you know it. And then you'll know what to look for in a woman, and women will be drawn to you in that way, the right kind.

And so you don't need a bunch. You don't need a bunch of options. You just need one in that way.

So just be faithful, be responsible, and see what God can do and trust

Him. And determine that you're going to serve Him like you want to honor

Him more than you want to breathe. And He'll always help you with that. And there's a lot of people out there like that who are looking for someone just like that too.

So I think in the course of your own relationship, if you want to honor God most, even if you're married to a contentious, bitter contentious woman.

If you're a man, you're married to a bitter contentious woman who fights everything you do. But just like, you know, don't stop being a leader.

Just be a leader and just like, just say, hey, you know. Stick with it. It's not going to get better unless it gets worse.

It may get a lot worse. But just, I'm going to be faithful and you're going to have to divorce me, you know. But I'm not going to give up.

I'm not going to roll over in a ball and just like let you conquer me. Like, you know, you're either going to leave me because you're so fed up with it.

But I'm not going to quit, you know. And so, I mean, I think a lot of times guys are giving up right around the time where things could get better, you know.

Like right when they push a little bit and then like the wife gets mad at them and they roll over and suck their thumb like a baby, you know, and quit.

But just keep on going, man. Don't just give up so quick, you know.

And I think a lot of men just need to have courage, be strong, face everything with a good attitude and quit giving in to self -pity.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow, man. This is nice. I would actually go on and keep going on.

This has been good. We should definitely do this again because I like conversations like this, you know.

This is nice. That's right. Well, thank you for having us on. Yes, I'm glad that you guys came. Guys, if you, you know, be sure to subscribe to Bible Bash.

Okay. Well, you can get all this wisdom from this gentleman, you know. I'm so glad you guys came.

We should definitely do this again. I enjoyed this. There's so many subjects because I actually forget the topic that I wanted before.

But this is good. We can do that one too. Yes. Yeah. I guess like next time we can do that one.

You see like how many topics that I have that I want you guys to weigh in. That would be definitely awesome.

Because yeah, there's some other stuff that keeps going on right now. But yeah, man, you guys, thank you so much for coming in.

I do appreciate you. Be sure to subscribe to their channel. Don't forget to like this video. Okay.

Thank you guys in the chat. I do appreciate you for stopping by. I have a live show on Friday, so I'll see you guys on Friday.

All right. Thank you. Have a good one, guys. Bye -bye. Bye. This has been another episode of Bible Bashed.

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