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June 8, 2026
KYLE KEARBEY, one of four pastors of Grace Fellow- ship Church of Browns, IL, & Founder & Director of the Christian Heritage Center, who will address:
“The PURITANS: A MODEL FOR GODLINESS TODAY”
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Good afternoon to Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this eighth day of June 2026.
I'm thrilled to have a first-time guest today, Kyle Kirby, one of four pastors of Grace Fellowship Church of Browns, Illinois, and founder and director of the Christian Heritage Center. Today we're going to be addressing the Puritans, a model for godliness today, and we'll also be announcing the upcoming conference on the same theme in Browns, Illinois.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Kyle Kirby.
Thank you so much for having me. It's a true blessing to be here.
Well, Kyle, please tell our listeners something about Grace Fellowship Church of Browns, Illinois.
Well, Grace Fellowship Church in Browns, Illinois, is a Reformed Baptist church here in southern Illinois. And I've been ministering there for a little over eight years, and my fellow pastors planted the church 15 years ago.
We have, by God's grace, a healthy, thriving congregation, and we are so abundantly thankful for all the Lord has done and all that he is continuing to do, and we pray that he continues to bless our fellowship and our church here in southern Illinois.
And tell us something about the theological makeup of the church.
Well, we are Reformed, and we have a wide variety of backgrounds that make up the individuals and the members and the families. Of course, there's individuals who are part of the congregation, yet they're not members of our church, and they attend fairly regularly.
But we hold to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. We're so thankful for that robust theological statement. So we're thoroughly Calvinist, which was part of our origin story in many ways. But, yeah, we're very thankful that we have such a strong confessional heritage that we can lay hold of and that we can use as a guide, as well, for the life of our church.
And tell us something about the Christian Heritage Center, please.
Absolutely. So the CHC, as I refer to it often, really, its inception began about three years ago. For many years, I've been really influenced by the life and ministry of the Martin Lloyd Jones. And the doctor has had such a significant impact on my own life and ministry, my own preaching, and my own soul.
The Lord has really given me an affinity for him. And so several years ago, I decided prayerfully to institute a ministry that was going to, in many ways, model itself after the life and ministry of Lloyd Jones.
And God's providence, that changed, and we broadened it. So the Christian Heritage Center exists. The mission of the CHC is to honor, preserve, and learn from the heritage of godly figures from the past to better serve the church today.
Really, it was—I've been so impacted by Lloyd Jones, I want to help other people experience the same thing that I've experienced from my study of church history, and from Christian biography, and from the saints of old that the Lord has worked through in my life in particular.
Well, now tell us something about this upcoming conference that is going to be on the same theme that we are addressing today, the Puritans, a model for godliness today.
Well, as the board of directors and I considered some of the best ways to fulfill our goals as a ministry, as the Christian Heritage Center, we have lots of ideas and lots of plans that we'd like to accomplish over the years.
However, one of the most natural things to do so would be an annual conference. And so we were a bit conflicted on what we should do initially, however, all of us love the Puritans. There are many brothers that I labor alongside of, and I'm at the CHC that have a much better grasp on Puritans as a whole, but we've all been blessed and all been benefited greatly by the Puritans.
And so we started throwing around themes, and we have several ideas of what we'd like to do in the future because they correspond to specific dates or periods throughout history. But we just landed on the Puritans as a model for godliness today.
And so the conference is this coming Saturday, June 13th, and the theme is the Puritans, a model for godliness today. Really, if we look at the Puritans, they give us such a pattern for life and godliness, how we ought to live, and so on.
So we'll be addressing various themes or various topics associated with the Puritans this Saturday. We'll have five messages. The first message will be by Brother Timothy Haupt, who's a pastor in Nixa, Missouri.
He'll be dealing with the Puritans and the gospel. Were they legalists? No. They were people of the gospel. They loved the gospel. Pastor John Miller, who I believe that you have an acquaintance with….
More than that, he was one of my pastors not long ago.
Oh, that's wonderful. John's a wonderful and a dear brother. I'm so grateful for him. And so Pastor John will be teaching on the Puritans and the means of grace. And then Pastor Ray Rhodes, who has written several books on Charles and Susanna Spurgeon, he'll be teaching on the Puritans and the godly home.
And then Brian Youngblood, who pastors in Texas, and he's a teaching fellow for the CHC, he will be teaching on the Puritans and the church, or the Puritans in worship, I apologize. And then I will close our conference on the Puritans and the heart, or the Puritans and experiential Christianity.
So we're very excited about it. By the way, I have had Ray Rhodes on the program. Always have enjoyed interviewing Ray. It's been a while. I've got to get him back on the show. But what a dear brother in Christ he is.
Yes, yes. All those brothers I just mentioned, they are godly men. They love the Lord, and they are faithfully serving him. They're all very gifted creatures as well. So I'm very grateful that they're all willing to come and be a part of the conference, and be a part of the CHC in general.
Well, if anybody wants to find out more about this conference and even register for it, go to christianheritagecenter .us, christianheritagecenter .us. And also, if you are in the Browns, Illinois area and would like to visit Grace Fellowship Church, and perhaps even join it if you live in that area and do not have a biblically faithful church home of your own yet, go to gracefellowshipchurch .net, gracefellowshipchurch .net.
We have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Kyle, where whenever we have a first-time guest, that guest will provide for our listeners a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised, if any, and the kinds of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to Himself and saved you.
So, we would love to hear your story.
Kyle Larson. Praise God! I'm so grateful that you always do that, brother. I find it a tremendous blessing every time I listen to it. So, I was raised in a Christian home, and one thing that has always stood out to me about my upbringing is the godliness of my mother.
My mom was a very godly woman who genuinely loved the Lord with sincerity from her heart. She is a prayer warrior, and she prays like nobody's business. And so, I made a profession of faith when I was about 12 years old, and I was baptized at that point in time.
I did—I was a moral guy. I remember having a sense of the Lord's presence and being before the Lord throughout my young adult life, even. I was extremely, extremely involved in sports, and it was really—it consumed my life and my energy up until almost the—all the way through college.
So, towards the end of my college experience, I was going through some very difficult circumstances with regards to relationships and family and so on, and the Lord broke me. He just really—He broke me.
And I was wayward for many years in college, so there was a distinct point in time. I look back on that to this very day, and sometimes I think, well, I was unconverted prior to that. But then I still get conflicted because I look back, and there's other times, and I'm like, you know, I think that I was genuinely saved.
I was just backslidden, and then I renewed my repentance after a period of time. And so, to this day, I'm not sure exactly whether I renewed my repentance or whether or not I was born again at that period of time or earlier.
However, I do know that around that same period, the Lord placed a call upon my life, and I was consumed with the thought of preaching and teaching the Bible. And so I began to pursue that with all my strength and began reading, studying, everything I could.
And fairly soon after that, I got involved at a small Baptist church in Ozark, Missouri. And the pastor there, one of the very first things he said to me in the interview process was, listen, I have interviewed several folks and said, listen, I need to start letting go of some of my preaching, teaching duties on Sunday evenings.
He was nearing 75 at that point in time, and he said, but some of the people we've interviewed said they wouldn't be interested in that. But he laid that before me. He said, would you be interested in that?
And I said, absolutely. I would love to preach. I would love for the opportunity to teach God's Word more regularly. He took me under his wing. He discipled me. We started meeting regularly. We prayed together.
He taught me about evangelism. I was there for several years. That was bivocational. I was working full time at a Christian trade school at the time. And then in 2014, 2013, I moved to another Baptist church, and I was the pastor there for several years.
At the end of 2016, I took a church full time, left the trade school, and I was there exactly one year, and then I was eventually removed because of Calvinism. And I performed theology, and after that, I started working with a seminary full time, and the church where I'm at now started courting me, and I started courting them.
In God's providence, we've ended up here. The Lord has been so kind. He has been so good to me throughout my life, and the Lord has been so good to my family and to our church. I'm just so grateful to the Lord for His kindness and His goodness towards us all.
SPROUL JR.: Amen. And where along that journey did you first discover and then eventually embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace, also known as Reformed theology and also nicknamed as Calvinism?
SPROUL JR.: Oh, man. When was that? I remember, I distinctly remember reading, I think it was Pascal de Nolte's book on Reformed Baptist covenant theology.
SPROUL JR.: He was just on my show recently to discuss that very book.
SPROUL JR.: Oh, man. Yeah, I remember reading that, and I'm like, man, this is…. Think that was You recall when that book came out?
SPROUL JR.: No, but it's been a number of years.
SPROUL JR.: I think…I'm trying to remember, because that was a distinct turning point, but I also remember when Pastor Wayne gave me opportunities to preach at Mount Zion, I kept going back to Calvinistic and Reformed commentators and thinking to myself, these guys have substance.
They are consistent. They really do a good job of explaining the text. So, I started getting influenced in that way. I was Calvinistic and growing in my understanding of Reformed theology and confessionalism prior to 2015.
I remember listening to a message by Stephen Lawson. Oh, it was probably 2014, on the life and ministry of George Whitefield, and it changed something in me. I remember thinking, Lord, I want to be like that.
And then when I heard that, I started chasing that rabbit down the hole, looking into Whitefield, and I was reading a ton of Spurgeon at that time as well. So, I can't really put my finger on the pulse exactly, but, I mean, I was growing in my understanding of Calvinism certainly 2012-ish, and then I was maturing in my understanding of Reformed theology and doctrine by 2015 at least, probably prior to that as well.
And God willing, I'm still growing in all of those things.
Yeah, well, I would be very concerned and doubtful of a brother's integrity, or even doubtful if they were a brother, if they told me they stopped learning. I pretty much know everything now and don't need to learn any further.
I'm good. I'm good to go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is not me. I know I have a long ways to go, brother.
Well, this topic, I've dealt with this topic a number of times on the show, but I don't think it could be repeated too often, because the Puritans are such an incalculably valuable resource of theology, doctrine, and example for the body of Christ today, and there is a significant percentage of the church who either shun and ignore the Puritans like the plague, because they've heard slanderous caricatures about them, or they're just simply ignorant of what they taught because their pastors and other heroes, perhaps, have never encouraged them to find out what they taught.
So perhaps you could start off with some of those things that surprised you when you discovered and began to read the Puritans.
Oh, man, yeah. I think that some of the things that surprised me were, one, one of the reasons I've been so impacted by the Puritans is that, well, one, I'm a preacher. You know, God has called me to preach His Word, and when I look to the past, for instance, Lloyd-Jones said, I'm an 18th-century man, meaning he loved and he had an affinity for and he associated with the preaching and the preachers of the 18th century.
But the men of the 18th century and even, you know, Spurgeon himself, who were formative in their lives? Well, it was the Puritans. It was the writings of the Puritans and the lives of the Puritans and the saints that came before them.
So when I need to, as I think about preaching and I look at the Puritans, they're challenging to me for many reasons, because they challenge me in prayer to pray for the ministry of the Word and to be a man of prayer.
I was surprised by their deep piety and their sincere and genuine love for Christ, but also their spirituality and the emphasis they placed on the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit's role in preaching and in the Christian life and the desperate need of the preacher to be blessed and owned by the Spirit of God.
But also the comprehensiveness of their writings and their thinking. I mean, it is crazy how well thought out they were in their thinking and their writing and how voracious they were in their biblical knowledge.
All of those things stood out to me. I think that I had to read the Scarlet Letter in high school. I don't really recall the experience of reading it that well. But as you've said, you know, there is all kinds of caricatures of them.
And I think John Piper said something similar to the Puritans, or Joel Beakey said something similar to this. You know, the Puritans were the happiest people on earth because they loved God and they tried to apply the Bible to all of life.
And true happiness is rooted and grounded in holiness and communion with God. And so I'm surprised over and over and over as I read the Puritans by how much they love the Word of God and how much they love the Lord Jesus.
R .C. Sproul, Jr.
Yes. And at the same time, I mean, I even remembered Joel Beakey, who was one of the greatest lovers of the Puritans that I've ever heard speak and who I've ever read. However, he was honest enough at a Banner of Truth conference to preach an entire sermon on the theme.
I don't remember the exact title of the theme, but it was something of the effect, things we should not imitate about the Puritans. And just because we are enamored, or perhaps that's a negative-sounding word, but just because we are blessed by the Puritans and love reading them and have benefited greatly from them and have grown in our knowledge and sanctification from them does not mean that everything they did was correct.
And of course, they weren't all the same either. They were different people, just like we are today. And humans have always been different from another, sometimes with a lot of commonalities when they're in the same congregation and so on, but we're still individuals.
And we have to be careful not to adopt the harsh, sectarian spirit that some of them possessed. Am I not right?
Yes, exactly. Yeah, I think that we do see…I can't speak into the exact details and give specific examples necessarily, but I do know that some of the Puritans were much more evangelical-hearted than others, and some of them were certainly more sectarian than others and harsher.
But I think also on some of the secondary and tertiary issues with regards to matters of conscience and issues like that, we need to be cautious not just to adopt the thinking of the Puritans because they're the Puritans.
We need to think critically and biblically on those issues. But even in those areas, oftentimes they would vary and have distinct opinions and so forth, we always have to be careful, I think. And this is one of the things that the Christian Heritage Center…that we have to take the balls and the strikes with regards to the people.
My friend Tim Hopp, who will be speaking to the conference, he has said this many times when we work through historical figures in church history. We don't want to just highlight and emphasize and learn from their positive things.
We want to learn from and gain for our own Christian life from their misses as well, from the balls, from their mistakes, from their errors, and learn from all of those things to be more like Christ today.
And the ultimate standard always has to be the Scriptures.
And we have to go to our first commercial break right now. If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, submit it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old USA. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away.
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Welcome back, and if you just tuned us in, we've got, I think, a very important program today, as I think all my programs are. But I think that this is especially needed in our day and age when theology seems to have been reduced to the lowest levels of importance when it comes to the life and teaching of many evangelical churches or churches in general.
But today we've got on for the first time Kyle Kirby, one of four pastors of Grace Fellowship Church of Browns, Illinois, and founder and director of the Christian Heritage Center. And we're talking about the Puritans, a Model for Godliness today, which is also the theme of their conference coming up this Saturday in Browns, Illinois.
And perhaps, Pastor Kyle, you could walk us through some of the major themes under the umbrella of the Puritans that will be addressed at the conference, and we could give a summary of those various aspects of the Puritans that we should emulate.
Kyle Kirby. Yeah. So, the themes that we will be covering at the conference include the following. We'll really be touching on five major aspects of Puritan theology, life, and doctrine. The first is the Puritans and the gospel, and speak about how Puritan theology and doctrine was rooted in the gospel.
It's tied to the gospel. It has everything to do with the Lord Jesus Christ and redemption and the work that He has accomplished. It is not rooted in legalism. It is rooted in the gospel. We'll be also discussing and addressing the Puritans and the means of grace, the Puritans and the Word of God, the church and the Lord's Supper, and prayer, and so on.
The Puritans were people of the Word. They really were. You cannot get away—you cannot get by from that. You cannot escape the reality that they loved the Word of God, and they were all about the Word of God.
We'll also be discussing the Puritans and a godly home, and the speaker on this message will be honing in, I believe, on the Puritans and marriage and how that affects the home in general. And I think, as many folks know about the Puritans, they were big on family, worship, and they had a lot to say about it, and they had a lot to say about marriage as well.
We'll also be discussing the Puritans and worship, and then the theme I'll be addressing is the Puritans and the heart, or experiential Christianity, its importance and our need for it.
SPROUL JR.: Any particular great Puritans of history whose specific teachings are going to be highlighted at this event?
SPROUL JR.: You know, I know that Brother Tim will be discussing John Bunyan. He did his Ph .D. research and his dissertation on Bunyan and the Pilgrim's Progress, so he'll be discussing Bunyan a great deal.
I'm going to be incorporating a good deal of John Owen into my message, and I don't know who exactly John will be dealing with in particular, so I can't answer that specifically.
With regards to the others. Yes. Well, we've got to have you and the other brother who wrote his doctoral dissertation on John Bunyan back on the show. I've done programs on Bunyan before. The most thoroughgoing, knowledgeable expert on Bunyan that I've ever met and interviewed, Barry Horner, is now in heaven.
He used to conduct seminars going through the Pilgrim's Progress, and I probably saw him do that at least four times, and I was never bored. And he added something to each presentation that made it kind of like a new presentation.
But we do have a listener named Delmar in Meridian, Mississippi, and Delmar says, one of the most common arguments against the Puritans that I ever encounter is when people immediately bring up the Salem witch trials.
What do you do when they say that to you? I'm assuming they do that to you, too. Yeah, that is a common thing. In fact, it's almost a common thing for non-Christians to bring up when you are a conservative evangelical, let alone when you're trying to bring up the Puritans in any kind of a discussion.
I, before you answer that, Pastor Kyle, I do want to recommend our listeners listen to, I think, an excellent interview that I conducted with Paul Jehle, J-E-H-L-E. He was on my program to offer a critical response to Bill O 'Reilly's book, Killing the Witches, and I thought that Brother Jehle did an excellent job.
That was January 23, 2024, where he provided a critique of Bill O 'Reilly's book, Killing the Witches, where there was a broad brushing of the Puritans. They were all made to look like tyrannical, bloodthirsty, insane individuals, which is far from the truth.
And, of course, he failed to mention that they were Puritans who were trying to bring an end to the witch trials. But if you could, give us your own thoughts on that.
Yeah. You know, I've never had anyone actually personally bring that up to me, but I think that's probably just due to the fact of the area where I reside and I live. But, I mean, the Puritans were not monolithic on really anything except for the core doctrines of the gospel and some essential identity markers.
So it's interesting that somebody would judge the entire movement based on some very minor and peripheral characters. And I know that many of them recanted and rejected it and repented of it, following the events that took place.
So, I mean, and I think that was, if I recall correctly, that was late in the movement. And so it was tragic, and that's one of the things that we have to recognize. We can't just ignore it. We can't dismiss it.
We have to address it. We can't whitewash the Puritans and the movement. Criticism, I think, is appropriate, but we can't define Puritanism any more than we can say the Crusades define medieval Christianity as a whole.
We can't do the one-to-one there. And so we can't define the whole movement by that one event. Yes, and we shouldn't do that with anything.
And we do have another listener with a question for you. Amethyst in Jupiter, Florida. Amethyst says, I heard the host of this show, Chris Arnzen, on a previous broadcast tell the audience to be very leery of anything Richard Baxter wrote outside of his book, The Reformed Pastor.
I was wondering if your guest today agrees with that. And by the way, the listener is correct, but I was taking that strong advice from at least three Puritan scholars that I know, because although they think that Baxter's work, The Reformed Pastor, is superb, that he has serious theological problems, unlike most Puritans, he was not a thoroughgoing Calvinist, and he had some questionable ideas regarding justification.
But anyway, what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I think I'd agree. You know, I think that he had some questionable views with regards to the atonement and justification. And Pastor Tom Hicks has written some—I don't know if he has written an article or books on it or whatnot, but he has written some fantastic Facebook posts on that very subject.
But you know, his book, The Reformed Pastor, is fantastic.
He's been on my show to discuss it.
Yeah, so I think I would affirm and support what you're saying.
Well, before I go to any other listener questions, I'd like you to personally reflect upon, other than what you've already said, of how the Puritans, how reading the Puritans and hearing lessons preached about them has not only enriched your walk with Christ, but also has further equipped you as a pastor.
Yeah, let me think about that for just a second.
While you're thinking, I'm going to repeat my email address for our listeners to respond with their questions of their own—Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Okay, brother.
So, Lloyd-Jones, and I refer to Lloyd-Jones often just because I love Lloyd-Jones so much, and Lloyd-Jones in his book, Preaching and Preachers, he gives advice to ministers for their reading life.
And one of the things that he says is that—and he categorizes the type of reading that ministers need to give themselves to and they need to have in their life to keep them balanced and to keep them stimulated and growing.
And one of the things he talks about is that we need to read books that do something to us. And when I read the Puritans, they do something to me, meaning the Holy Spirit is working in my heart, in my mind, and stirring my affections and stirring up the graces that God has given to me when I read the Puritans.
So, you can tell when you read those books that they are blessed of God, because God blesses them to our souls to such an extent. Personally, I cannot read large swaths of the Puritans at a time. I need to read them in small chunks and chew on it and meditate upon it.
So—. Especially John Owen. Yeah, especially Owen. And especially, you know, particularly depending on what he's writing. I'm reading something by Owen right now, and I'm finding it very, very easy to read, especially if I read it out loud.
That seems to be very helpful for me with anything Old English, if I read it out loud and I hear it that way. But yeah, I've literally grown in grace as a result of reading and studying the Puritans. As a minister of the gospel, they've helped me understand what it means for the Spirit of God to bless and accompany the ministry of the Word of God.
And I think that it's one of those things that if you consistently and continue reading and studying and exposing yourself to that material, as you mature and grow, God will use those things in your life in different ways that He wouldn't have, say, three or four or five years ago, because you weren't sanctified and matured to the point that you are now.
So, the Lord has used them in great ways to grow me as a minister of the gospel with regards to wisdom and counseling and interaction and just generally and being spiritually minded as a minister and as a Christian first and foremost.
Okay, we have C .J. from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who has a question. C .J. asks, What do you think are the qualifications that need to be present in a historic figure's life and teaching in order for them to be classified as a Puritan?
Oh, my, that is a very, very hard question to answer. The way that Puritans are classified and categorized and grouped, that's a very hard thing to answer. There's a bunch of different ways to do that, and I don't know that I can accurately do that.
In general, the Puritans were English-speaking—I mean, this is very broad—very, very general. The Puritans were English-speaking Protestants primarily in the 16th and 17th centuries who sought the further Reformation of the church.
According to Scripture, many didn't think that the Reformation went far enough, but that eventually led to the nonconformist groups. So, I don't even want to try to nail down the distinct markers and identifying marks because there's so much disagreement and different ways that you can do it.
And when you're speaking about the Reformation of the church, I'm assuming you're specifically speaking about the Church of England, and it's actually quite sad that there are even today Anglicans, even theologically Reformed Anglicans, who have a disdain for the Puritans and agree with their Anglican forefathers for ousting them out from the Church of England.
But sometimes, to use an ironic term here, sometimes you could be overly Puritanical about what you are insisting upon for things like this.
Yeah, and I think that, you know, it was…I mean, historically, it was a movement. So, historically, it was a movement that seems…that started and ended gradually. But, you know, anything in history is going to be organic, so we're not going to be able to say, well, it started here and ended there.
But there's also many ways in which modern believers can embody Puritan principles. If we take the Bible seriously, and we take fellowship and communion with God seriously, if we seek to apply the Bible to our whole life and live unto the glory of God and do so zealously, we can in many ways say we're embodying the Puritan spirit today, to always be seeking to go back to the Word of God in our churches and in our lives and to return to it.
So, yeah, there's just so many different ways. That's a great question, though, and you'll find probably about 10, 15, 20 different answers.
Yes. Like, for example, there are people who will insist that a person could not have been a Puritan if they believed in believers' baptism like John Bunyan did, and they will say that the term Puritan is being misused.
And there will even be people who classify Charles Spurgeon, a 19th-century Baptist preacher, as a Puritan just because he emulated them and adopted much of their theological beliefs.
Yeah, yeah, and, you know, I think there's even individuals, I think, that would say you shouldn't include—you shouldn't label the Scottish Puritans as Puritans. There's all kinds of different views and perspectives.
I think that it started waning—the movement started waning by Jonathan Edwards' day, for sure. He was one of the latter Puritans. I think one of the issues with Edwards and his ministry—you know, Edwards was, essentially, he was a Puritan in spirit, in his perspectives, in his life, in his lifestyle, in his theology, in his doctrine.
But I don't think that Edwards' church was as Puritan as Edwards was. And so I think, in many ways, that's what got him in trouble, was because he was still so thoroughly exuding the Puritan spirit and Puritan principles in his day when the rest of culture and society and Christianity was already starting to distance itself from some of those things.
Okay, we have Roy in Dunwoody, Georgia, who has a question. And Roy says, I know that very often people, including myself, have mistakenly confused the Pilgrims with the Puritans. Can you remind me of how they are different?
Well, I don't know that I'm the best one to answer that, honestly. So I think that they would have been considered a sect of nonconformist Puritans. But I don't feel confident answering that super in detail, honestly.
And before we go to the break, the midway break, tell us about some of the most primary issues that our listeners are missing out on and that congregations are missing out on if the pastors listening never make use of the resources, the rich treasure trove of resources available to us written by the Puritans, how their churches are really missing out because of the absence of this.
Oh, man. I mean, we are missing out on deep piety and godliness. And knowing what true religion and experiential, doctrinal Christianity is. Ignorance is not bliss with regards to this issue. Sinclair Ferguson recently said in the last, I don't know, three or four months, or I heard this quote from Sinclair Ferguson.
He said something similar to, the Puritans, when they went down, they went down deeper than we go. They stayed under longer than we stay, and they always came up better than we do. And there is so much truth to that.
There's so much literature available now. You know, Reformation Heritage Books and Joel Beecke of Puritan Reformed, he has done so much great work in bridging the gap between Puritans and modern Christianity.
I would just encourage anybody to go out and buy a couple Puritan paperbacks from Banner. Go to Reformation Heritage Books and look through their—oh, there's a small little series they have. They're real accessible books.
And, you know, just start reading something. You know, I love Thomas Brooks. He is one of my favorite—I love Thomas Brooks. He's so readable. He's pithy. He's witty. He's got so many sayings that just stick in your mind.
I would not necessarily encourage somebody to start with John Owen, necessarily. Start with Thomas Brooks or Thomas Boston or even, I think, Thomas Watson. There's so many good ones. Go out and get Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices and read one section a week and think about it.
Look up the Scriptures. Use it in a devotional method and take yourself back to the Bible. Give five minutes in the morning with your Bible reading. After you've prayed and you have spent time with the Lord, open up a Puritan paperback and read it for five minutes in the morning or ten minutes in the morning, especially if you're a minister.
It'll do wonders for your soul, and it will really help you grow in grace, I believe.
I remember as a new Christian—well, fairly new—reading Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices by Thomas Brooks, and one of the things that struck me was that it was clear to me as I was reading this book that was written hundreds of years ago that the issues addressed by Thomas Brooks were very contemporary to me.
It was just fascinating.
Tom. That is such a good word. And I think that's why we still need the Puritans today. Exactly what you're saying, brother. That's why we need church history in general. That's why we need Spurgeon's sermons.
That's why we need Lloyd-Jones messages. That's why we need Whitefield's messages today, because true preaching is always timeless. True preaching is always relevant. It transcends age. It transcends culture.
It transcends generations because it's based and rooted and grounded in the Word of God. Ma 'am's problem, ma 'am's nature doesn't change. The problem doesn't change, and the remedy doesn't change because the gospel stays the same.
I think that's such a good word, brother.
Yes, and one of the things that we should keep in mind when people scoff at Reformed Christians wanting to make use of the writings of men who lived centuries ago—not only, not exclusively, but they should be a large part of our literary diet—is because there are different factors in a modern age driving men to write what they write.
Some of them, and I'm not saying that they're unimportant, but some of them are responding to contemporary fads that aren't even going to last long into the future, and I'm not even saying that they shouldn't be written.
But, on the other hand, there are also men—and this would typically, I would like to think not where our Reformed brethren would err, but even our Reformed brethren are not sinless and beyond temptation—but there are people who are being paid to write things that are specifically intended to be published to sell many, many, many, many copies, and therefore, sometimes, the direction of the author and what he produces may not be a no-holds-barred account of the truth without being candy-coated and sugar-coated.
Yeah, yeah. Well, we have to go to our midday break right now, and once again, if you have a question that you would like to ask of my guest today on The Puritans, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.
I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight-volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.
It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
For details on the eight-volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com. For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
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That's also the email address where you could send in a question for Kyle Kirby, one of four pastors at Grace Fellowship Church of Browns, Illinois. As we continue our conversation on the Puritans, a model for godliness today, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And we have a question from Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia.
Hello, brothers. Since the Puritans were very family-oriented and diligent to pass the faith from generation to generation, why do you think the movement eventually by and large ended? That's an excellent question, and do you have any thoughts on that?
Tom, you're trying to think what I would say to that.
Tom, I know somehow, and obviously, I would need more of a historical scholar than I am to be pinpoint accurate on this, but I have heard that Unitarianism began to poison a number of churches, including the Puritan movement, which led to the fall, theologically, of the Ivy League schools who began as Puritan institutions.
Does that ring true with you?
Tom. Yeah, I think so, and I think that it was in many ways inevitable, because you saw as well that a generation of ministers was passing away as well. And I think rationalism took hold, and pragmatism, especially with the rise of the Second Great Awakening in that period, I think that really influenced it as well.
But yeah, I think that rationalism and so forth really put a nail on the coffin in many ways with the passing of that generation.
Tom. Thanks, Lou, for the excellent question, as always. Let's see here. We have Doyle in Brownsville, Texas, and Doyle asks, since the Puritans were forced out of the Church of England, did they still nonetheless hold to the Thirty-Nine Articles, or did they hold to some other confessional standards?
David. Well, I mean, we get the Westminster Confession, which is really, in many ways, the embodiment of Puritanic theology. And so, I believe that the majority of Puritans would have held to the Thirty-Nine Articles for an extended period of time, even after they were ejected, because it wasn't so much the doctrine which forced them out.
It was certain practices.
Within the church. Tom. We have Ronald in Wading River, Long Island, who says, when someone asked earlier about the difference between the Puritans and the Pilgrims, what I have understood is that the Pilgrims had no intention or purpose to reform the Church of England and wanted to separate, whereas the Puritans desired to remain as long as they could and reform the church.
Does that sound true to you?
David. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tom. Okay. Well, thank you, Ronald. Before I go to any other listener question, I really would like you to spend some time—a little bit of time, anyway—with major reasons that you believe our listeners should seriously consider, even if it means traveling, to attend your conference this Saturday.
David Oh, man. This is my advertising plug. So, what I've been telling my church family and individuals locally and folks that I'm just speaking with regarding the conference is, I know the men, personally, that are going to be speaking.
I know that they genuinely and truly love the Lord. They are very gifted as preachers and teachers of God's Word. And, honestly, if you are not a minister, it costs $40 to attend this conference, and that includes lunch.
If you are a minister of the conference, you can get admission for $20, and that includes lunch. There will be free items, and there will be giveaways. And I can bear witness that these will be high-quality, top-notch messages delivered on the Puritans from godly men who genuinely love the Lord.
And I know that the website, once again, is christianheritagecenter .us. And there is actually a selection that you can click to go right to register for the conference. And do you know what exactly at the top of the page they can click on to be directed to register?
So, if you go to christianheritagecenter .us and then scroll down, like you said, click on registration, and you just scroll down to the bottom, they'll find the registration form right there. There's only like three or four boxes.
It's not complicated at all.
Well, that doesn't mean I wouldn't screw it up. Me too, brother. And I'm going to let our listeners in on a little secret. I'm amazed that we are still able to successfully conduct this show today, because we're experiencing technical difficulties that requires me to use a cell phone in combination with my microphone.
And it's too hard to explain right now, but I do not hear anything through my headphones because of some technical issue, which necessitated that I use my cell phone. But I'm amazed I was able to pull this off so far anyway, because I am a technicological ignoramus, and everybody who knows me well is very well aware of that fact.
And typically, if they're a close enough friend, they love to taunt me and mock me about it. But that would be especially true with James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, one of my closest friends.
And I happened to take a certain glee when I noticed that he is having technical difficulties because of all the years he has mercilessly mocked me for being technicologically ignorant. So anyway, hopefully this will continue.
Now, one of the things that I have heard over the years is people saying, I'm conferenced out. I don't know if conferences are really a healthy thing for the church. And they will not only refrain from attending conferences, but they will mock them and try to caution others not to go to conferences, even if those conferences are in full agreement with their own theological positions, even if they may like to a degree or have been blessed by the individual speaking.
There has been a certain disappointment that many have with conferences. And of course, a conference is only good as the people speaking at it and what they're saying. But how would you tell people to still, nonetheless, venture out and give your conference a try and why this, in general, is not the.
Healthiest attitude to have? Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it's important to I mean, I've been on the other side of that to a degree, even though I've not attended a lot of conferences. And I think that in some ways, the initial response is right.
But I don't know that it's a response to conferences so much as it is the celebrity culture that is embedded in evangelicalism at times. And so, you know, I think that you can have and you can facilitate and host conferences, and I think they're good, and I think they're biblical, and I think they're helpful and edifying.
But I also think that they need to be done with prudence and wisdom and under the authority and auspices of a local church. You know, one thing about our ministry, the Christian Heritage Center, is that especially because there is teaching and training involved in the work of the Christian Heritage Center, I believe that it's very important that it remain under the authority of the local church.
And so that means that all our ministries and all our work will be under the authority of the local church as well. And so, this is our first conference. We're a young ministry. We did it on a Saturday, and we're finishing as early as possible so that people, if they really, really, really want to, they can get back to their local church on the Lord's Day.
All these men have extensive pastoral experience. They are all actively involved in the Christian Heritage Center. We're intentionally not bringing in a big name from outside that's unassociated with our ministry.
We're doing it in-house because we know the character and the integrity of those people involved and because we have the ability to do so. So, we want people to come to the conference and be encouraged and strengthened in their relationship with and to the local church.
We don't want to pull people away from the local church. We want to send people back to the local church. We want to encourage people and their submission to the local church. So, we've thought through a lot of this because of that culture, brother.
And I think to some degree, there's a healthy aspect of withdrawing from that celebrity culture that's embedded in Christianity. But I think the conferences are good and helpful and that'll be fine. So, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Now, it's becoming crystal clear to me, since you didn't want celebrities to be speaking there, why I received no speaking invitation from you. I'm only kidding.
We immediately marked you out.
Let's see here. We do have a listener in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and the listener says, I have a number of friends who are of the ilk that would say folks like us that do a lot of time reading the Puritans and the Reformers and other great men of history as going beyond what sola scriptura dictates that we do.
And they think that they only need the Bible to learn and grow as Christians being accurately taught and preached from their own pastors. How do you respond to that kind of thing? Yeah, that's an excellent question.
I've heard the same thing. And there are some of my apologist friends who would call that view sola scriptura, and they're forgetting that the very Bible that they think is sufficient for everything they believe and do, and I believe it is, but what they are failing to remember is that very Bible says that people must be qualified to teach, and therefore it can be dangerous to believe that your own pastor—or pastors, plural—are the only men that are for you to believe that they're the only men that are qualified to teach you.
But anyway, and, you know, I think that great men of the past are teachers that should not be rejected. But what would you.
Say about that? I think that, one, a lot of people, if they're going to take that attitude and be that specific, ultimately, I think they're going to end up to the point where they say, well, I don't even…they may very likely end up at the point where they say, well, I don't even need my own pastors to teach me what the Bible says, because I can read and understand the Bible just as well as they can.
You know, I have the Holy Spirit. I can interpret and read and study the Bible just as well. I don't need qualified teachers to instruct me or to have ministers over me. I think that whole view denies and rejects the reality that Jesus Christ has been working in and through the church for over 2 ,000 years, and that men of the past have had an intellectual rigor and the blessing of God upon them in many ways.
And there's a great deal of…there's a large majority of voices that agree and that help us to interpret the Scriptures. I think that humility actually requires that we listen to the voices of the past that agree on the doctrines of the Scriptures.
In many ways, I think that it is prideful, and it can be very foolish to reject those who have come before us and spoken on these things. The Spirit of God doesn't start over every generation with every person.
The truth grows and matures and progresses and is clarified throughout the history of the church. And so, one of the things that…one of the areas of theological study is historical theology, and it teaches that theology is understood progressively and refined progressively, and I believe that's wholeheartedly true.
So, we're better off as the church by looking to the men of the old, our current teachers, and the Bible for ourselves as a Scripture, as a standard.
SPROUL JR.: Amen. And this really goes hand in hand with what we were saying earlier about why it is so healthy and helpful to read books that were written centuries ago, and also to promote a good conference as a beneficial addition to your own private reading and your own hearing and benefiting from your pastor's preaching, is because no one on the planet can claim to be an expert on every single matter taught in the Scriptures.
And it's dangerous when somebody is viewed that way, and especially if they think of themselves that way. And so, it is very healthy to hear multiple voices teaching, especially when you are aware that they are esteemed by biblically sound men of faith, and you get to hear a variety of men who have been able to dig deeper into specific areas of the Scripture that perhaps other people have not yet had the time to accomplish.
And even those men themselves are not experts on everything, even though they may have keen insights into a particular area or a number of particular areas in the Bible. Am I making sense?
SPROUL JR.: Oh, yes. You know, one of the blessings of the Christian ministry is that God has given gifts to the church, men who are dedicated and committed to the study and proclamation of the Holy Scriptures.
The everyday believer who works a 40 to 50-hour job, the stay-at-home mom who teaches her children, raises her children, and takes care of her home, they are tired. They are worn out. They have a million things to do in their lives.
They cannot dedicate the time and energy that a minister can dedicate to studying the Scriptures, explaining it, and applying it to their lives. God has been gracious and kind to us in that. But we think about even that.
The minister is limited in his ability to some degree because he has a flock to shepherd, and he has a flock to minister to. He has varying responsibilities. But there are other men that have studied in those areas more than him that can contribute, that can help edify and strengthen him.
So, I think it's a huge blessing that God has gifted men in various and different ways to benefit ministers and the church as a whole. Like you're saying, brother, so many wonderful blessings involved in it.
Yes, and in fact, for those listening who may be themselves or they know of family, friends, and loved ones who are among the solo Scriptura crowd, their pastors—if this is a true and beneficial and God-breathed method of learning and growing and being discipled—their pastors should ascend into the pulpit, open a Bible, read a passage, close it, and sit down.
They shouldn't even exegete it. They shouldn't even preach on it. And so, people aren't really consistent. They're not logically consistent in their thinking. But we have to go to our final break right now.
If anybody has a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least. City and state and country of residence.
Don't go away. We're going to be right back. I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics.
And Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Janssen and Christopher McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711. That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program. SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.
We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com. But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church.
On Long Island. Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur. In the film, Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran.
He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God. I sense that same God-given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God. That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672. That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's.
Word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace. God bless you. It's such a.
Blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world. Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves.
Hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland. Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft.
If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight-volume commentary on the larger catechism.
Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.
Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831. That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare,.
Sanctuary. Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
I'm Pastor Nate Pikowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Iron Works, New Hampshire, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in.
Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in.
Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens Jr. of the Church of Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your.
Church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.
To place your order. I'm Phil Johnson, Executive Director of Grace to You with John MacArthur. I've been a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I highly recommend this show, but today I want to tell you about one of its advertisers, Rare Document Traders.
Far and away my favorite source for quality Charles Spurgeon memorabilia. Are you looking for that special, unique gift for your pastor or missionary friend or a loved one? Why not purchase a piece of church history that any believer would cherish?
Rare Document Traders is your one-step source for Spurgeon's handwritten manuscripts and letters, as well as other rare books and collectible items from church history. In 15 years that they've been in business, they've earned a stellar reputation in the Reformed community with thousands of satisfied customers all around the world, including me.
Visit raredoctraders .com today. That's raredoctraders .com. Don't forget to mention you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That's raredoctraders .com.
Welcome back, and please, folks, don't forget that this program is also paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco Associates. If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, call my longtime, very dear friend, since 1991, and brother in Christ, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law at 1 -800-NOW-HURT, 1 -800-NOW-HURT, or visit Dan's website, 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com, 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com.
Please make sure you tell Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm, Buttafuoco Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Also, I want to make sure that all men in ministry leadership are reminded that you are invited to my next free biannual Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Tasker's Luncheon on Thursday, October 1st, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.
For the very first time, my keynote speaker will be Dr. David A. Harrell, and he will be addressing the theme of one of his many books, which is Why America Hates Biblical Christianity. Not only is admission free and you're meal free, but everybody in attendance will leave the event with one and possibly two heavy sacks of free brand-new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.
If you'd like to register, just send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. And I am now back with my guest today for the conclusion of our interview. We have had an excellent conversation with Kyle Kirby on the Puritans and on his event coming up, and we have time for one more audience question from Jameson in Toronto, Canada.
Jameson said, Why did John Owen deliberately write nearly everything that is in print by him in such a deep and complicated manner? Was he seeking to address primarily, if not only, his peers who are theologians and scholars, or did he believe that the average person could accurately understand what he has written?
SPROUL JR.: Well, I think that, well, one, I think that Owen was very, very intelligent. You know, he was intellectually gifted, certainly. But also, I mean, I think that there was a higher expectation with regards to the people in the pew as well and what they understood and their knowledge regarding the subjects and the doctrines that he was exegeting and elaborating on.
SPROUL JR.: Okay. Well, I'd like you to summarize for our listeners what you most want etched in their hearts and minds before we go off the air today.
SPROUL JR.: Well, most etched in their hearts and minds preeminently that they would know and love the Lord Jesus Christ, and that they would, if they don't know Christ, that they would come to know Christ by faith and repentance.
Secondarily, that if they do know Christ, I would encourage them to consider studying church history to honor, preserve, and learn from the heritage of godly figures in the past, and it will help them to better serve the church and to live under the glory of God in their daily lives.
SPROUL JR.: By the way, brother, I want to thank you. I didn't know this before I invited you on the show, but I want to thank you for listening to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio. I did not realize until after I extended to you the invitation that you have enjoyed listening to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio in years past and have been edified and benefited by the program, and I want to thank.
You very much for that. Thank you for your ministry, brother. The Lord has blessed it and.
Used it. Well, that means the world to me, brother. Let me repeat also to our listeners how they can get in touch with you and benefit from you, your preaching, and the events that you orchestrate and host.
First of all, Grace Fellowship Church in Browns, Illinois can be found at gracefellowshipchurch .net, gracefellowshipchurch .net, and the Christian Heritage Center can be found at christianheritagecenter .us.
That's christianheritagecenter .us. Please make sure that you at least investigate this Saturday's conference on that website, and if you're able to attend, please register, and you will not be sorry that you did.
Also, folks, I want to remind all of you of the urgent need that Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio has for your financial support. I am not comfortable asking you for this help. I always feel awkward in doing so.
I always feel like I have to apologize for doing so, but if I don't make the need known, I can't expect for people to know how urgent it is. So, if you really do love the show and you benefit from it, you enjoy not only the diversity of guests that I have on the program, but also the diversity of subjects, sometimes that you don't hear anywhere else, and you want this show to continue, please go to ironshepherdsironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now, and you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card, or you can mail a check made payable to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio to the address that will appear on your screen as well when you click Support at ironshepherdsironradio .com.
I also want to remind you of a very exciting two-day event on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio coming up on Thursday and Friday, the 25th and 26th of June. My friend Jeremiah Nortier, a Reformed Baptist pastor in Arkansas, is going to be once again debating a Nazarene pastor, Jared Henry, on the theme, Can a True Believer in Christ Lose His or Her Salvation?
That will be a debate held two days in a row on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, Thursday the 25th and Friday the 26th, so please make sure you mark your calendars and listen to what should be an exciting and fascinating and edifying debate.
And now, as always, I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner. Amen.