Who Can Stand Against Us (Tamil) — Zac Poonen

Right from the first session, we were thinking about God's dwelling place. And we were thinking in our last session how the light can become brighter and brighter in God's house, and how that must be first of all in our own hearts, and then in our homes, and then finally in the church.

The Church as God's Dwelling Place

And by church we mean people, not building. In the Old Testament, God dwelt in a building, but now it is in the midst of His people. That people can gather in a forest or in a cave, that is God's house.

So whenever we speak about the church, we are talking about God's people, that's His house. That's the main thing Jesus is building today. And if you have understanding, you will realize that this is what you should also be building.

Now there are many people who are interested in just bringing individuals to Christ. That's a very important ministry. There are so many people who work among children. There are radio evangelism going on.

And so many public meetings and different ministries that bring individuals to Christ. I look at them like the lorries that bring bricks to the building site. Is that important? Definitely, otherwise how can you build a house?

So the lorry will bring 10 ,000 bricks and keep them there. But what does the owner do of that plot? He doesn't just paint those bricks and leave it like that. No, he tells the mason, take these bricks one by one, build the house.

So the first ministry of evangelism is bringing the bricks from the brick kiln to the construction site. So the lorry is like an evangelist. The lorry goes to different places and brings the bricks. But then somebody must take over there and build into a building.

There's a lot of effort and money spent into buying the bricks. But if you don't build a house, you know what happens. In India, I'll tell you what happens. You keep those bricks lined up on the roadside.

Every week the bricks will become less and less and less. You wonder where it is disappearing. Somebody else is building a house, they are also taking from your bricks. But if you build them into a house, nobody can take it from there.

See, so many churches complain, brother Zach, you are stealing from our church. I'm not stealing anybody. See, we build a house, nobody can steal from the house. You keep those bricks lying around like that.

We don't steal them. Those bricks get tired of sitting there, they walk across to our house. And say, we don't want to live alone here. We want some fellowship. We don't steal anybody. For 34 years, I have never, till today, asked anybody to join any of our churches.

We have got some thousands of believers in all of our churches. You ask them. If I have ever asked any of them to join our church. In fact, I'm trying to drive people away. I say, if you are not a disciple, please go and go to some other church.

Building the Church with True Disciples

Why do I say that? Have you seen these masons build houses? See, a man will be sitting on that, on a plank on top and he is building. And somebody throws a brick up to him. I have seen these masons. They will take the brick.

And tap it with their trowel. He says, this is not good. Give me another one. See, these masons know, this is not a good brick. I remember in Bangalore once, somebody brought some sample bricks. Because we were constructing something.

I think it was when we were building the church building or something. So, I said, let's put these bricks overnight in water and see if it will last. So, we took a bucket and put it all inside. Next morning, there were no bricks, only powder.

So, we don't want your bricks. Please don't bring your bricks. See, this one rain will demolish your building. We want bricks that can endure. So, these masons don't need to put it in water. They just tap it like that, they know.

So, if a person doesn't want to be a disciple, I say, listen, some people there are building some third rate type of buildings. You go there and join that. But here, we want solid disciples. So, we are very particular about the type of bricks we use, just like a mason.

I will tell you, if you are a house owner, you will be very particular about the type of house you are building. If you are some cheap contractor building for somebody else to make money, you will use cheap material.

There are so many Christian workers today. Who are like these cheap contractors, putting useless bricks in God's house. What type of person you are? You are using first class bricks for your house. And for God's house, you use all these third rate, not properly converted believers.

You are using proper bricks to build your house. But for building God's house, you are using unrepentant, bad people. What type of person you are? I don't want even a single brick like that in God's house.

Just because I say like this, even if you get upset, it's okay. I will tell you that there is a proper person to live here. Even if it is a small house, it should be a good house. That's why we want everyone to be a disciple of God.

When we preach like this, many people get offended. If you don't want to be a disciple, you will definitely get offended. If you don't repent from your sins, A good brick is someone who has repented from his sins.

According to his knowledge, he wants to give up whatever he knows to be sin. In the beginning, he knows very little to be sin. As he keeps remaining in the church, he will get light on so many things that are sin.

Because we preach on that. So, some wonderful thing happens in our churches, which does not happen in ordinary houses. In a house, you put a brick there. Even the best bricks, after 10 -15 years, it decays.

But we build the house, the bricks become better and better after 10 years. That is how God's house is. Because we preach repentance, we preach discipleship. We say, you have to love Jesus more than your father, mother, property, everything.

You know, if you want many bricks, you have to lower the standard and get useless bricks. Supposing you say, I am going to spend only 20 ,000 rupees on bricks. But I want many bricks. Then you get cheaper quality bricks.

But if you get good quality bricks, you get few. So, each church, they decide what type of bricks they want. I have decided, God has commissioned me to build his house. You know, David, God said, God commissioned me to build his house.

And even though he didn't himself build it, he told Solomon. I have collected all the material for the house. And that is how God, David provided the best gold and silver and all for the house. Now, I find today, so many pastors and preachers are using third rate material to build God's house.

They don't preach against sin. And they get all types of people who are not willing to obey God. I say, I never want anybody to be a part of God's house, if you are not willing to, first of all, obey God in the waters of baptism.

Go and join some third rate church over there. There you got to repent of your sin. You got to surrender to Christ completely. And be baptized in water. And then you must be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You need power to live like Jesus wants you to live. So, in the beginning, if you really are careful about the type of bricks we select, you don't have problems later on with the wall collapsing here or a crack in the wall there.

So many churches, they have problems like that. Very often, it's because the elder wants to build a big church, not a good church. You know, when we started 34 years ago, we said, we are not interested in numbers.

Noah's Ark as a Pattern for Building the Church

We were only 7 or 8 people. They said, that's enough. Noah had only 8 people for 120 years. He was my hero and my example. But he said, the ark is the only thing that will remain when everything else is destroyed.

So, when I say, the church is the only thing that will remain when everything else is destroyed. Now, before God spoke to him about building the ark, Noah may have had many other interests. You know, to expand his business and get more vineyards and become a big businessman.

One day, God said to him, I'm going to destroy all this. Build me an ark. His whole life changed in one day. Now, he was not interested in expanding his business. Now, he was reducing his business. Because he had to sell some property to build the ark.

And then he had to sell some more property to buy some more wood. He could not write reports to America to get money. He had to spend his own money. We want people like that in the church. Who are willing to spend their own money and serve the Lord.

Who don't need to write reports to anybody. The only report they give is to God. When they kneel down before Him. That is how Noah lived. And he built the ark and he got all his children involved in the building of the ark.

Jesus said, the last days will be like the days of Noah. A lot of violence. A lot of sexual sin. And we see that happening all around. But, God also will have a few people like Noah in the last days. Number one characteristic of Noah.

He did God's work with his own money. He supported his family. And he used his money to build the ark. God told you to build a huge ship one day. First thing you will ask is, Lord who is going to pay for it?

When God told Noah to build a huge ship. Why he didn't ask the Lord who is going to pay for it? Because he knew. God would have said, you, you have to pay for it. Who else? And do you think God prospered Noah's fields and all during those years?

I believe God's, Noah's fields prospered more than anybody's fields in those hundred years. Because he took one decision. I will spill the ark from my own pocket. Everybody is wondering, how is Noah's vineyards prospering so much?

Because he decided to do the Lord's work with his own money. I have seen that happens to so many people in the last 34 years in our churches. So many brothers in our churches can testify to that. They decided they will build the ark with their own money.

I am not talking about buildings. That's not God's house. I am talking about laboring to build people. That is the ark today. People. Brothers, sisters, children. To labor to bring them up in Godliness.

The second thing about Noah was he made sure all his children were saved. The second thing about Noah was he made sure all his children were saved. He had three children. All of them cooperated in building the ark.

And even though later on one back slid. We can't help that. During the time of building the ark, all three were whole hearted. Sometimes people become a little proud when they think God has saved me. And brought me through the flood.

And they begin to criticize the man who took them through that flood. That's what Ham did to Noah. That happens. We can forget our leaders. Who gave us light. Who showed us the truth. And become critical.

The leader doesn't suffer. Ham suffered. And his children suffered. His child's name was Canaan. The father of the Canaanites. They were destroyed by God. You know a father going astray can affect the children.

There is a phrase in English. Biting the hand that feeds you. Supposing you put your food into the mouth of a cow or a horse and it bites it. It bites off your finger. Even animals know they don't do that.

Even pet dogs and lions in the zoo will not do it. But believers do that. They bite the hand that has fed them for years. Just like Nebuchadnezzar became like an animal. Ham became critical of the Noah who saved his life.

Be thankful for those who saved you from calamity. Be thankful for those who saved you from ending up in Babylon. God wants many people like Noah around the world. Who will stand alone. Bring up his children in the fear of God.

And spend everything to build the ark. The church. Because Jesus said in Matthew 16 and verse 18. I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He said that 2000 years ago.

From Collecting Believers to Building a Family

You ask the Lord today. What are you doing Lord? He will not say like many evangelists and preachers. I am saving souls. Jesus never came here to save souls. He came to build his church. He never came to collect bricks.

He came to collect bricks and build it into a house. So remember this. Don't be satisfied in your church dear elder brothers. That so many people are coming to your church now. Those are only bricks. Are you building them?

Are they getting cemented one on top of the other? Or are they lone individuals running around? There are churches like that. They can be big churches. More like a cinema theatre. In a cinema theatre you don't know who is sitting this side, you don't know who is sitting this side.

Next Sunday you go, somebody else is sitting there, somebody else is sitting there. There are many churches like that. That is not the house of God. Imagine in your family. Around the table the children are sitting.

The children don't know who is sitting here, who is sitting there. Next day somebody else is sitting there, somebody else is sitting there. I said that is not a family. That is a restaurant. Some churches are hotels, not family.

In a family we love one another, we know one another. In a family we love one another, we know one another. We are built together. Not everybody in a family is wise. Some are very small children. Some are babies, they dirty the floor.

We have some believers like that. But we don't kick the babies out of the house because they dirty the floor. We care for them, teach them. And they grow up. That's how we work with young believers. So we have more children come.

There will be children and there will be grown up people in the house. I remember one person once came to me. He is some believer from some other church. He said, Brother Zach, I appreciate you and your ministry.

But some people in your church are such legalists. I am sick and tired of them. I said, yeah, we have some babies in our church, what to do? Don't judge the church by those babies. And I used an illustration.

I said, supposing I invite you to come and visit my house. And you come and knock at the door of my house. And my two year old son opens the door. And he says, who are you? I don't know you. Bangs the door.

If you go away and say, Brother Zach banged the door on my face. I went to Brother Zach's house and he banged the door on my face. I say, you are a liar. That was my two year old son. He doesn't know.

We have got two year old babies in our church. They do stupid things. But we also have older people who don't do such stupid things. So we have legalists who have got all types of rules and regulations.

We have number of brothers in our church who are still living in the old covenant. We have some elders also who have got little mixture of old covenant and new covenant. It's not all new wine, it's old wine plus new wine mix.

But we are gradually helping them to filter out the old wine and get rid of it. Some people filter it out in one or two years. Some people even after 20 years they are still struggling to filter out the old wine.

There is still a legalistic attitude. How do you discover whether a man or a brother or sister has got a legalistic attitude? Let me give you a simple test. It's very difficult to fellowship with them.

They preach high standards. You can't get close to them. You can't fellowship with them. Because it's all legalism. I also find it difficult to fellowship with legalistic people. I find it easy to fellowship with people who have thrown away the old wine completely.

God is building a church. But some people are immature. We are patient with them. We don't kick them out. If they play the fool with sin, that is different. Even Peter was a bit of a legalist. About 10 -15 years after the day of Pentecost, he was one day eating food with some non-Jewish people.

Peter, Paul, and the Necessity of Receiving Correction

Paul and other apostles were also there. And Peter saw some brothers who were co-workers of James, the elder in Jerusalem, coming to the dining hall. James was the senior elder in Jerusalem, brother of Jesus.

Peter saw some of these co-workers of James coming. He got a little frightened. They will report to James that I am eating with all these non-Jewish people. He quickly told the brothers, I finished my lunch, I have to go and wash my hands.

He had not finished his lunch. There was still plenty of rice on his plate. But he was afraid. So he got up. He went and washed his hands and sat with some Jewish people. Paul was sitting there. He saw this.

And he stood up. Paul is a bold man. Everybody is listening. He says, Peter, what are you doing? You are scared of these people who have come? You say that Jews and Gentiles are all one in Christ? And Peter was, Paul is ten years younger to him.

I like people like Paul. Don't care what the age of the legalist is, they say this is wrong. You know the best part of it? Peter never got offended. He never got offended. I think afterwards he must have gone to Paul.

He said, Paul, thank you so much for that. It really helped me. Praise God for something. Later on when Peter writes a letter, he says, our beloved brother Paul has written some amazing things. Many people can't understand it and they twist it.

What a fellowship those apostles had. Publicly somebody is rebuked. He humbles himself. But Peter was always like that. One day Jesus turned around and said, get behind me Satan. And then all those twelve disciples are there.

Many people left. Jesus said, do you want to go away? And this man who was called Satan, he speaks. He said, Lord, where shall I go? What you spoke, these are the words of eternal life. You know why Peter became such a mighty man of God?

He could accept correction. Not only from Jesus, but from some young man like Paul, ten years younger to him. Paul who was an unconverted man when Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.

That man rebukes Peter. I am not surprised that God used a man like Peter so mightily. Dear brothers and sisters, I will tell you whom God uses to build the church. Those who don't get offended when they are corrected.

If you get offended when you are corrected, you are not like Peter. You are like Judas Iscariot. You know once, Jesus entered the house of Simon the leper in Bethany. I think that was the same house where Mary and Martha were.

And we read in Matthew 26 about this woman who came and anointed Jesus with very costly perfume and poured it on his head. You read that in John 12 also. And then it was Judas Iscariot who said, we know from John 12, why waste so much money on this?

Here it says, the disciple said that in verse 8. But you read in John 12, it was actually Judas Iscariot who said this perfume, verse 9, Matthew 26, 9, could have been paid for a high price. And how did Jesus correct Judas Iscariot?

He didn't say, get behind me Satan. No, he said it very gently. Verse 10, why do you bother this woman? She has done a good deed. The poor you always have with you, but you don't always have me. In a few days I will be killed and then you won't have me.

And after my death, it will be the sabbath day. There will be two sabbath days, Friday and Saturday. One is the high sabbath and the Passover sabbath and the ordinary sabbath. And after two days, so they won't be able to anoint me.

And the third day they will come to anoint me. It will be too late, I would have risen. So see what this woman did. She anointed my body before I die. Verse 12, and she is the only one who will be able to anoint me before my burial.

It was a prophetic anointing that Jesus, nobody will be able to anoint his body after he died. All the women who come with spices on Sunday morning, they find it is too late, he is already risen. But this woman did it because she did it earlier.

If you keep on waiting to serve the Lord, one day you won't get time. Do it now. You want to pour out something in Jesus' feet, do it now, one day you won't get time. You want to get the opportunity. It is wonderful what this woman did.

And then Jesus said, 2000 years this gospel will be preached in all the countries in the world. And this story, verse 13, which this woman did will be preached everywhere. And Judas Iscariot listens to this.

A mild rebuke. Why are you saying give it to the poor? She has done a good deed. What a gentle correction. He got upset. I say something good and Jesus corrects me. Immediately he got up. Verse 14, then, then, Judas Iscariot went to the chief priest.

Ok, tell me, what are you willing to give me? I will betray him to you. I am angry with him for correcting me like that. Do you see the difference between Judas Iscariot and Peter? Jesus called Peter Satan.

He said, Lord, these are the words of eternal life. Your rebuke is what will save me from living for myself. I told you not to go to the cross. Now by your rebuke I know that is the voice of Satan that tells me not to go to the cross.

That seeking my own interest is the voice of the devil. I would never have known how serious it was unless you had called me Satan. For me, these are the words of eternal life. But Judas Iscariot, small thing like, why trouble this poor woman?

She has done a good thing. I have sometimes seen elders rebuke somebody. Some poor sister, some poor brother, they will never speak like that to some rich person. This is a poor brother, poor sister. I am always scared of rebuking poor people because the Bible says James 2, God has chosen the poor of the world.

Have you read that in James 2? God has not chosen the rich. He has chosen the poor. So as a servant of God I am scared to rebuke or correct a poor person. I am not scared to rebuke a rich person. No fear at all.

But a poor person, the poorer they are, the more I am afraid to correct them. Be careful brothers and sisters. I find many of our elders are not like that. I find many brothers are not like that. They can't see that God has chosen the poor.

You ask me, why has God chosen the poor? There are ten thousand things that God does which I don't know the answer. But when it says in James 2 verse 5, strong words, listen my beloved brethren, listen my beloved brethren, listen, God has chosen the poor of this world and He has given promise to the kingdom to them.

Honoring the Poor and Every Person Made by God

Lord, I believe it, I will listen to it. So many people are very rude in the way they speak to poor people. Many years ago God taught me a lesson. Some poor beggar with torn clothes came to my gate and I spoke to him a little strongly.

Poor man, he just turned around and went away. I went home and God rebuked me so strongly. Immediately. The Lord said, if that man had come in a suit and a tie, would you have spoken to him like that?

I said, Lord, I am ashamed. I am not fit to be a representative of Jesus Christ. I repent. I repent in dust and ashes. Forgive me. Never again in my life will I speak to any poor beggar like that. A man made in the image of God because of poor circumstances or because his parents were drunkards or something, he ended up like that.

I am not better than him. Let me never think I am better than him because I am educated, my clothes are better. Dear brothers and sisters, learn to value first of all the brothers and sisters. Learn to speak respectfully to all people.

That is a very important thing to build the church. In God's house, we respect one another. That's where God dwells. Let me show you a verse in Leviticus. Leviticus chapter 19 It says here in verse 32 You shall rise up before the grey headed and honor the aged person that is how you prove that you fear God.

I am the Lord. That is how you prove that you fear God. That's how you prove that you recognize that He is the Lord. It was a law in Israel. It was one of the 613 laws. You shall You must do this. You shall rise up before a grey haired man and you shall honor somebody older than you.

That is how you prove that you fear God. It's one of the things I taught my children when they were small. Always respect people who are older than you. Even a servant working in the house older than you never speak rudely to them.

We have had many people helping in our house. I never allowed any of my children to speak rudely to even one of them. Do your children speak rudely to somebody older than them? Particularly someone who is very low in the social level.

I have seen that. I have seen some believers in CFC. How their children speak to some servant in the house. It has always gone badly with such families and such children. They don't fear God. This is in the Old Testament you rise up and honor an older person.

In the New Testament see what it says. 1 Peter 2 .17 Not only the older people honor all men. Love the brotherhood. That is how you show that you fear God. In the Old Testament you show you fear God by honoring an older person.

In the New Covenant you show that you fear God by honoring all people. I take it seriously. I never speak to a little child saying, I don't speak like that. I will tell you why. He may be only 5 years old.

I fear God. I have learned to honor all whom God has created. I may speak rudely to a dog. Not to a child. Not to someone even any age. Why? Because I fear God. I am not in the Old Covenant. If I were in the Old Covenant I will respect those who are older than me.

God delivered me from the Old Covenant ages ago. One proof I honor all men. It is very easy to find out whether you are in the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Have you ever noticed this verse? Have you ever compared it with Leviticus 19?

Learning Scripture with Humility and Dependence on the Holy Spirit

We think we know the Bible. We don't know the Bible. We need to humble ourselves. I will tell you how I read this book. I say, Lord I have got a clever brain when it comes to worldly things. I did very well in my worldly profession.

But when I come to this book I am as stupid as a donkey. I am ignorant like a baby. If you don't teach me I will never understand anything in this book. Even today after reading this book for 50 years that is how I come to this book.

I say, Holy Spirit of God teach me. That is how I have learnt the most amazing things that I have shared with you the last 25 years. I did not hear it on some CD or read it in a book. The Holy Spirit showed me this from the same Bible that you have.

Because I started reading it slowly I would read one verse and stop and not read the next verse for the next 5 -10 minutes. And then I stop. The whole day I can't go to another verse. Tomorrow I open the Bible again I am in the same verse the whole day.

Sometimes I have been in one verse for many days. That is how I studied this book. And I say, Lord I am stupid. Not in worldly things but in spiritual things. Even though I have been a believer so many years I cannot understand this book unless you teach me by the Holy Spirit.

You come like that to the Bible and you will see the most amazing things here. And you will learn what it is to fear God. And you will do a work like Noah. The Lord needs many people like Noah in the last days.

Cooperating with Jesus to Build the Church

He built the ark we built the church. He built an ark that went through and stood firm right until the end through the flood. The ark that Noah built went through and stood firm It did not crumble and fall.

And I believe that if I fear God I will be able to build a church that remains through till Jesus comes. You can do that. Be like Noah. Do what God says. Fear Him. Walk with God. Bring up your children in the fear of God.

Teach them to join you in building the church. All of us can do that. Yeah, train your give your children education to earn a living. That's good. But tell them you earn your living in order to build the church.

That's what we must teach our children. Because this is the only thing that will remain. You ask the Lord, Lord what are you doing on the earth today? You say, what Lord I told you 2000 years ago I am building my church.

This is what I said 2000 years ago I am building my church. Are you a co-worker of Jesus? You know when God made when Adam was alone God said I will make a helper for him. And He made Eve to be a helper.

Supposing they had not sinned and they were in the garden God gave Adam a job and a house and a wife the three things we need house job marriage partner God was the one who gave it all to Adam and He will give that to you also.

But He told Eve you have to be a helper. Supposing they had not sinned what would Adam have been doing? He would have been the gardener in Eden. And if you had asked Eve what are you doing? I am a helper to Adam.

God has given him a job I am helping him to do that job. Now Adam is a picture of Jesus Christ and Eve is a picture of you and me the bride of Jesus Christ. If you asked Eve what are you doing? I am helping my husband in the work he is doing.

We are the bride of Christ like Eve we are supposed to be his helpers. If somebody were to ask you what are you doing? Can you say I am a helper to my husband to do the work he is doing. And if you asked Eve what is your husband's job?

He is a gardener I am supporting him. Today somebody asked what is your husband's job? My husband's name is Jesus Christ. He is building the church I am helping him. Is that what you are doing? If you think my husband is Jesus Christ he is busy making money I am helping him in that.

That is another Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible is building the church. If you are a helper if you really believe you are the bride of Christ build the church. What do you think Noah's wife did? She was helping Noah.

I can imagine that she said Noah now we are going to have a lot of expense to build the ark. I don't want you to buy me anymore sarees from today even on my birthday. Don't buy it. Please use that money to build the ark and I am going to cut down expenses in the house also because we have to save money to build the ark.

I believe Noah's wife did that and that is how she became a helper towards her husband and the children saw it. What. Mummy. No new saree for your birthday. Daddy forgot about it. No no no. I told him I don't want it.

I said use it for building the ark. You think God will be in debt to such women. No never never. You deny yourself one thing for Jesus sake he will give you a hundred times we have seen that in our family.

God is. How did God reward Noah and his wife. Not by building them a big house by saving all their children in the ark. What is the reward you want from God. Better house. I will tell you if the Lord says to me Zac what do you want as a reward for all the work you have done for me.

How much money do you want. Zero. You want a house. No Lord one small house is enough for me. You want a car. What do you want. I said Lord all my children must be whole hearted disciples who build the church.

That's what I want. If you do that for me I will ask for nothing else on this earth. I will not even ask for healing if I am sick. If you heal me that's fine. This is the reward I want. That's what Noah got.

Rejecting Destructive Criticism and Serving Together

I want to ask you my brothers and sisters. Many of you think you are whole hearted disciples of Jesus. Are you cooperating with Jesus in building the church in your town in your village. Some of you sit there and you criticize criticize.

That's all you do. You are not doing anything yourself. Some poor brother is trying to do something and you find fault with him. What an evil person you are. Why don't you get out of the church and go and join some other church.

He won't go. Oh this is the best church in this town. You want to sit in the best church and you want to destroy it with your criticism. Brother be sincere. I remember once one little rebellious young brother once wrote to me from one town.

He said brother Zack I am in one of the CFC churches here. These elders are not very spiritual. You know what I told him. I said yes brother this is a bad church. The CFC church is a bad church. Those elders are not spiritual.