February 20, 2025 Show with Ken Barber on “Being an Ambassador for Christ to Men Behind Bars”

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February 21, 2025

February 20, 2025 Ken Barber,a former prison inmate, incarceratedfor a total of approximately 10 years,who was saved by the grace & mercyof Jesus Christ in a county jail on theway back to prison, now evangelizing& ministering to men currently incar-cerated in a Belize prison throughGrace Outreach (GoMinistries.com),who will address: “BEING AN AMBASSADOR FORCHRIST to MEN […]

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:10: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.
00:58: And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:09: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:21: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 20th day of February 2025.
01:31: Before I introduce my guest and our theme, I have another prayer request for continued prayer for my brother
01:42: Andrew. My brother Andrew, as many of you know who listen to this program regularly and follow me in social media, he was taken from his nursing home several days ago to the hospital.
01:59: He was originally in critical condition with dangerously low oxygen levels and was sedated and unconscious and on a ventilator.
02:09: He was taken off the ventilator, I believe it was the day before yesterday, and has been off it ever since and is improving.
02:20: He is still in the ICU of the hospital. Please pray not only for his complete physical healing, but also much more importantly his spiritual healing, and that I would receive unquestionably convincing evidence that he is truly saved by the mercy and grace of Christ.
02:44: And I will continue to give you updates on my dear brother Andrew Arnzen, who is 78 years old, and I hope to give you praise reports, continued praise reports, in the days and weeks and months to come.
03:02: Today I am thrilled to have a first -time guest on the program who comes with the highest recommendations of Pastor Greg Van Court of Dayspring Fellowship, a
03:15: Reformed Baptist congregation in Austin, Texas. His name is Ken Barber, a former prison inmate incarcerated for a total of approximately ten years, who was saved by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ in a county jail on the way back to prison, now evangelizing and ministering to men currently incarcerated in a
03:39: Belize prison through Grace Outreach, which has a website,
03:44: GoMinistries .com, and today we're going to be addressing being an ambassador for Christ to men behind bars, a former inmate story.
03:54: It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Ken Barber.
04:02: Yeah, well, thank you, Chris, for having me on. I appreciate the opportunity. We're always looking for opportunities to share our testimony and reach others for Christ.
04:13: Well, since you are a first -time guest on the program, one tradition we have whenever we have a first -time guest is that guests will give a summary of their own salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our
04:31: Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them. And, of course,
04:36: I'd love to hear your story, including how you actually originally became a prison inmate yourself.
04:46: Okay, well, thank you, Chris. I seldom, you know, every time I give my testimony, it's hard to pick a place to start.
04:55: Well, start where you were raised in the kind of religious atmosphere. Right, I was not raised in a religious atmosphere.
05:04: Actually, I was raised in a poor family. My daddy was a drunkard, an alcoholic.
05:15: Seldom did we ever go to church. My dad had an uncle that was a pastor, and the few times we went,
05:23: I could tell he would call on my dad to pray, and so my dad would be very embarrassed because he didn't live for the
05:30: Lord. He drank all the time, so I heard him often complain that that's why he didn't go to church because he always got embarrassed when he went.
05:39: So to me, I knew that was an excuse, but my dad was a bricklayer. I know he was a decent guy.
05:46: My dad wasn't abusive to us or anything, but he didn't raise me in church, and he always told me he thought that the
05:53: Bible contradicted itself. He could never figure out where Cain got his wife and things of that nature.
06:02: So that's the atmosphere I was raised in. Daddy worked hard, but he drank up all our money with alcohol and from time to time would hit my mother.
06:14: But over the years, people would come to my house and pick me up. I recall one particular instance, and I was like in the second grade.
06:24: Someone came from a little Methodist church and picked us up for a vacation Bible school.
06:30: I'll never forget it. I was the only kid in the class, a little town called
06:36: Sweeney, Texas. The lady sat me down under a tree at a little table and put a picture in front of me of a camel going through the eye of a needle and told me to color it.
06:49: And she left, said she'd be back in a little while, so I colored the picture. It was very confusing to me because I couldn't understand what it meant.
07:00: And she came back after I finished coloring the picture. She came back, read the scripture, and that was the extent of my that class that day.
07:09: So I think it was the next week. I remember riding my little stick horse through town one day and passing by the barbershop.
07:17: I stopped and looked in. There were always some World War II vets sitting in there chewing tobacco and talking about old times.
07:24: But they had a TV up there. And as I rode up there, I remember the announcement coming on that Marilyn Monroe had just killed herself.
07:34: And so I remember that verse, you know, how hardly shall a rich man enter the kingdom of heaven.
07:40: It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle and for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Of course, in my family, my mama always complained about how poor we were.
07:51: And, you know, she kind of made it clear that if we would, if, you know, rich people, famous people were obviously happy.
07:58: So we weren't happy because we weren't rich and famous. So I just remember thinking that day, just wondering why
08:06: Marilyn Monroe would, if since she was rich and famous, why she would kill herself. So but that verse came to my mind and that was the last time
08:15: I even thought about it till a few years later. I guess I was 19 years old sitting in the
08:24: Brazoria County Jail. This was between my first and second time in prison.
08:31: An old man came through, Mr. Webb, and I was a trustee. So I was sitting in a cell that we had made into a library.
08:40: And a friend of mine and I was sitting there just killing time or organizing books.
08:48: And Mr. Webb, who was a volunteer chaplain, came walking through and asked us, you know, they call it the catwalk.
08:55: It's just a catwalk, an area that goes around the cells. The visitors would come through.
09:01: But anyway, he stopped and asked us if we'd mind if he talked to us for a moment. And he pulled his Bible out.
09:07: Of course, I said, we're not going anywhere. So sure. So he opened up the Bible to that passage of scripture.
09:14: After all those years, a camel go in the eye of a needle. I remember sitting there and Mr.
09:21: Webb explaining that passage of scripture, explaining salvation and then giving a little invitation to us and asking us if we wanted to give our lives to Christ.
09:31: So as I sat there, I knew I needed to be saved. I knew what he said, you know, about the gospel applied to me.
09:39: But when he asked us if we wanted to come to Christ, I just remember thinking, you know, if I do this, what will my homeboy think?
09:47: You know, what will my friend think? So I looked up at Mr. Webb and told him, no, I'm not ready.
09:53: So he just said, OK, didn't play just as I am ten times or try to beg me to come.
10:03: He will get saved. So so that was one of my encounters. I mean,
10:08: I knew providentially that that was God, right? Because after all those years of that vacation
10:14: Bible school and this older guy coming through there and opening up scripture to that passage,
10:21: I knew God was speaking to me, but I wasn't ready. You know, I've heard the gospel many, many times and I'd already, you know, prayed the little sinner's prayer many times.
10:32: Every time I get locked up, I'd hear the gospel and, you know, preachers that come through and say, you know, if you here's what the
10:39: Bible says and if you admit this and agree to this and pray this prayer, then, you know,
10:45: Christ will come into your life. But all the times that I've heard that actually, you know,
10:52: I'd read the little gospel tracts and they would give an invitation and, you know, I'd tell you to sign your name on the line and, you know,
10:58: I'd sign them and go right on and nothing would ever change. Nothing would ever happen. So that was, you know, pretty much my early experience with with the gospel was just kind of hit and miss, right?
11:13: Things like that. But April 18th, 1981,
11:19: I was sitting in a county jail there in Gonzales, Texas, having tried to change many times.
11:26: This was between my second and third time. Tried to change when
11:33: I got out of jail, moved to Gonzales, actually, to go try to change. My guy
11:38: I met in the jails had a family there. So I said, well, maybe if I moved to a little country town,
11:45: I could change. Now, can you back up a little bit and explain why did you wind up in prison to begin with?
11:54: OK, well, I started out, of course, as a as a kid, first time
12:00: I ever got caught stealing. I was in the third grade. I went to a hitchhike to a swimming pool with an older man.
12:09: I was in the third grade, but always hung out with older guys. And so I remember we hitchhiked to this pool, swimming pool in Normandy, Texas, Hilltop Lakes.
12:20: And we snuck in and went into the locker room and I stole some money out of a man's pants in the locker room and then went back around to the gate, paid my way in.
12:29: And so that was my first encounter with stealing. So I got caught.
12:35: Somebody saw us in there and I got caught. So that was my first encounter. Of course, my punishment for that was that I began to get an allowance from my daddy so I could pay the man back.
12:46: So that's that that was the extent of my punishment, just having to pay him back.
12:51: And I never got allowance from my dad, but I began getting an allowance that time. So I thought, well, maybe crime does pay, you know.
12:58: But that was I was I was in the third grade when that happened. And we moved from there to another town.
13:05: And I kind of, you know, everywhere I went, just for some reason, I would always end up with a reputation about being a fighter and a bad dude.
13:14: And it's just something people put on to me. Right. But by the time I was in the,
13:19: I guess, 11th grade, I began to steal. I went to work for a guy at a gas station and he hired me for five dollars a week.
13:30: And I'm telling you all this just kind of lead up to show you how my life began. But they paid me five dollars a week to pump gas, to help pump gas at this gas station on the weekends.
13:40: But I'd pump the gas and take the money and put half of it in the register, put the other half in my pocket.
13:46: So I ended up accumulating quite a bit of money. By the time
13:52: I was in the seventh grade, I began to go into people's houses at night, burglarize, seldom got caught, but almost got killed a few times.
14:04: But I ended up the first time. And I ended up actually went into a man's house one night, took his wallet out from under his pillow.
14:13: I heard him talking to people that he slept with his wallet under his pillow. So I went into his house that night and took his wallet out from under his pillow and slipped back out to the bedroom.
14:25: And I came back again another time to try and do that. And the next morning after I did, and I did do it, but his wallet wasn't under his pillow.
14:34: But the next day, my dad confronted me and it was a friend of his.
14:42: And he told him that, you know, the only reason you're alive right now is because I know he told my dad the only reason he's alive right now is because he's your son.
14:50: And so he must have seen you. Yeah. Yeah, he did. But he slept.
14:57: Well, he saw me that night the second time he slept with a shotgun that night. He just figured he started sleeping with a shotgun after that.
15:05: But I could have been killed then. Right. I think I was like in the seventh grade at that time.
15:11: But I began to burglarize. That's how I just began to break into houses. And in December of 1973, a friend of mine and I went to my hometown and burglarized on Christmas Eve night, burglarized every business in town.
15:32: Twenty four. I was charged with twenty four felony burglaries at that time. Actually, the
15:39: Texas Rangers came after me. They hid and ran from them for a couple of months.
15:45: And when when they confronted my dad and told him, you know, if you don't you need to tell him to turn himself in, because if he tries to resist us, we're going to we'll end up shooting him.
15:56: Right. So I waited a month or so, finally turned myself in, got a seven year sentence out of that.
16:04: I actually got probation and got out and lasted two weeks on probation and burglarized some more businesses and ended up locked back up again.
16:17: So that's my first encounter. My first prison time was for burglary. Twenty, I think it was twenty four felony counts of burglary.
16:29: And, you know, I dealt drugs, took drugs myself, but never got caught doing that.
16:35: Burglarized some drug stores and places that kept drugs.
16:43: But in between my second, my first and second time,
16:48: I began to shoot speed and methamphetamines and.
16:55: I got became very violent, beat my family up one night, but I had a lot of encounters, but never ended up getting busted.
17:03: I cracked a man's head one day for just saying something to me I didn't like. They had a life flight into Houston to save his life.
17:12: But but those were you know, that was my early encounters when I between my my second and third time in prison is the time that I was telling you
17:22: I decided I wanted to change. I'm, you know, typically when
17:29: I give my testimony, I got a little timeline there, but it usually takes me 45 minutes or an hour to give my testimony, but I ended up deciding that I was going to change met a guy in jail, actually got busted for several misdemeanors and a felony, nighttime burglary of a habitation.
17:53: And I met the guy, became my friend. He was from Houston. He was in there for stealing a car.
17:59: So he and I became good friends and had a chaplain that was coming in, bringing books and Christian books.
18:06: And there were several gangsters that he had interviewed them and taking their testimonies.
18:13: And so I began to read their books. Um. And God began dealing with me through that, just through the books, one of them,
18:24: Happy Jack Burbridge was his name, he just died last year, but God used his testimony to, you know, plant seed in me.
18:35: But. That's my early, you know, my early life was burglary and things of that nature.
18:43: After I tried to change there in that little country town, Gonzales.
18:51: Oh, I don't know how to even tell the story at this point, but I ended up in Gonzales, had no money.
19:03: My mother wired me $20 and, you know, Ray and I decided we were going to try to get a job.
19:08: So I went to a bar and. Gave my name out, they told me, if you go into this bar, it's where all the oil field workers are.
19:19: So if you go in there, I'll find you a job. So I went in there and gave we gave everybody our name, our phone number, address to where we live, you know, call us if you got a job open for us.
19:30: But Ray told me, let's drink a beer. So I drank one beer and then after one beer,
19:35: I said, well, Ray, let's drink another one. And after the second beer, I decided I can't do this.
19:41: I can't change. Tired of trying. Right. So planned a little, you know,
19:47: I don't mean to say this, you know, in a way that sounds like we're glorying in our sin or anything.
19:56: But, you know, there was an old man sitting there and he drinking alone. So I walked over and asked him if he had mind taking us home.
20:04: We had Ray's grandmother's truck. So I asked him if he'd mind taking us to Ray's house, drop off the truck and come back and party.
20:12: So, but my intention was if he agreed that once he did, we'd take his car from him and go, which
20:19: I did. And he was a fire marshal there in Gonzales, World War Two hero.
20:28: So I took my little pocket knife and stuck it to his throat, made him get out on the side of the road and began our crime spree.
20:36: And from from then for the next two months, we just went from Texas to New Mexico to Salt Lake City, Utah, and, you know, robbing people on the way.
20:47: I had, you know, planned to, you know, if they caught me, just throw down on the police and let them shoot me, kill me.
20:58: So you obviously weren't enjoying this, if you had that in your mind. Were you ever feeling guilt or was this very easy for you?
21:10: Did you have a completely. Well, you know, I'm I'm kind of like I said, you know, usually when
21:18: I give my testimony, there's a starting point and an ending point. But but I mean, my my life seemed like it was a very long process.
21:27: I mean, from the time I was a little boy stealing here and there and then beginning, you know, to burglarize homes and.
21:39: You know, I didn't you know, it wasn't until I got locked up, I guess
21:44: I went to a boy's home when I was 15 and while I was locked up, I knew something was missing right in my life.
21:52: And that's as a young boy, I didn't have any, like you said, any Christian upbringing. So I got charged for burglary.
22:00: And of course, being a juvenile, they don't charge you with the crime. They they they charge you as being a delinquent.
22:08: Right. So they took me to court and tried me. I was the first juvenile to have a jury trial in Brazoria County in the last 30 years.
22:18: So but they're they're not finding you guilty of a crime.
22:24: They're declaring you a delinquent child, somebody whom your parents can't control. So I had a jury trial.
22:32: And it was kind of funny because the lady that was a Pentecostal lady, who was one of my friend's mother, told me she was going to be praying for me.
22:43: And and I remember when they sent the jury into the jury room, I walked over. It was the middle of July and it started thundering.
22:51: And I mean, the clouds rolled in and this huge storm rolled in. And I looked out the window and there was my friend's mother driving by with her hand out the window praying.
23:04: It started, it started sleeting. And I mean, it was it was a huge storm.
23:10: But the jury came back in the out of the jury room and deadlocked. And so which means they couldn't reach a verdict.
23:19: So they deadlocked and and I was released. Of course, they tried again, tried me again and finally declared me delinquent the second time.
23:32: But I knew, again, there was a seed sown there with with Miss Brown, because she she was always trying to witness to me.
23:38: I was the town thug, you know, so she would always witness to me. One of her daughters was my girlfriend at the time.
23:46: But again, not, you know, not too much later, they finally found me delinquent, took me away from my parents and put me in a youth prison.
23:56: That's that was my first time. While I was there in the diagnostics unit in my first cell,
24:03: I remember sitting there and thinking something, you know, something's got to change because I've been in trouble since I was, you know, 10 years old.
24:12: But there was a little Gideon Bible there. On the desk that they somebody put there, so I remember just sitting there thinking how terrible my life was and knowing something needed to change.
24:24: And I picked up that little Gideon Bible and I never read the Bible. But I remember thinking, well,
24:30: Matthew's my favorite book in the Bible. So I flipped it open to Matthew and it fell open to the
24:35: Beatitudes. And as I read the Beatitudes, you know, you know, that's
24:42: I guess the first time God really convicted me. I just realized that I needed to change.
24:48: But when I read the Beatitudes, blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness.
24:55: You know, as a young boy, I didn't really understand all of that. But I knew that if I was going to be a
25:00: Christian and if I was going to have a different life with God, that that's the kind of person
25:05: I would need to be. Right. I understood that just reading the Beatitudes, but I didn't want to be that.
25:14: I wanted to I wanted to have a change, but I didn't want what it took to have the change, in other words.
25:20: So I just, you know, I set that aside and they sent me on to my next building or next they call it a school, but kind of a prison farm for youth.
25:34: And my bunk partner's name was Matthew, and he was a Christian. So I spent the next eight months every morning with Matthew witnessing to me, quoting scripture to me.
25:46: I got out of I got out of that about eight months later, within four months, went on a little burglary spree
25:57: I just told you all about. I ended up with 24 counts of burglary, made a deal for probation, got out on probation for I think it was five days.
26:09: Within five days, I was locked back up for probation violation and sentenced to seven years.
26:17: I remember when the Texas Rangers stopped my dad. My dad came and told me, son, the
26:25: Texas Rangers stopped me and told me that if you don't give yourself up, if you don't stop right now, then you actually they told him at that time, if you don't stop right now, you're going to end up in prison.
26:36: But I remember telling my dad, you know, my dad was a drinker. He just said, you know, if you don't stop, you're going to end up in prison.
26:45: Right. So that stayed in my mind. But that day when I got the seven year sentence and they took me in there and threw me in the cell, turn that key and shut that big metal door.
26:56: As soon as I heard it clang, you know, I could hear my dad just telling me, son, if you don't stop, you're going to end up in prison.
27:02: So I did the seven year sentence. I did four years and eight months on that.
27:08: Made parole. Actually, while I was in there, I got I had somebody bring marijuana into the prison for me.
27:14: I was a trustee, so I had the opportunity to have kind of a conjugal visit while I was in there.
27:22: I had marijuana brought in, planted marijuana seeds and got busted while I was in prison.
27:29: Now, what does a trustee in prison mean? What does a trustee mean? Well, they were number one, and the reason most men want to be a trustee is because you get what they call good time.
27:43: And if you do it as a trustee, when you do a year, you get a year. They give you a year off your sentence for every year you do.
27:51: Typically, you get for every year they give you at that time, they would give you two thirds of a year.
27:57: They call that good time. But a trustee is someone who gets a status where they can go outside and walk around by themselves without a guard over them.
28:07: So I became a trustee. They put me in the chicken house. They're raising chickens. But I could go in and out, trusted by the warden.
28:16: Now, were you married at the time? Because it's interesting. No, no, I was at that time. Yeah, I was 17 years old when they locked me up.
28:25: And they gave you conjugal visits, even though you weren't married? No, no, not conjugal.
28:32: I said, you know, kind of conjugal. In other words, I could maybe that's not the right word. Let me let me back up.
28:38: Contact visits. Oh, I should have said. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry. Yeah. So they gave me, yeah, gave me contact visits.
28:46: And of course, you know, this prison that I was at was right there in my hometown in Brazoria, Texas.
28:53: So, you know, it was, you know, I became kind of a anomaly there.
28:59: Here I'm from this town and the warden lives not far from there himself and all the guards and all the the ranking officers.
29:09: They didn't know me personally, but they were all right there from that town. So when they made me a trustee, of course, you know what that means.
29:18: They're trusting you, right? So after about six months of being a trustee,
29:23: I brought marijuana in and planted it in the chicken house, you know, took the seeds out, planted it in the chicken house and started smoking it.
29:32: A guy in the, you know, the work with me snitched on me, right? He didn't want to.
29:39: He'd been there for long years and he didn't want to get in trouble. So he snitched on me. And long story short,
29:44: I got busted, lost my trustee job. They took all of my good time that I had earned, put me back to square one and then shipped me to a maximum security unit in Rochere in Texas.
29:59: So I finished out my time there at that maximum security prison, gained a reputation.
30:06: I began, you know, instead of getting in trouble, I started working hard and guards like me and I became the lead row in my squad.
30:15: And so after, I guess it was like a year and eight months, they gave me my trustee time back.
30:22: They gave me my good time back and I actually made parole. I got out, stayed out about eight months,
30:29: I think, and ended up getting my parole violated for methamphetamines, for taking drugs.
30:36: Wow. Yeah. So. In fact, let's pick up right where you left off about being arrested for methamphetamines because we have to go to our first commercial break right now.
30:51: Okay. Well, actually, go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. We'll pick up on your story when we come back because we have to go to a commercial break.
30:59: And by the way, I was just informed that you were completely correct in using the term conjugal visits the way you used it.
31:08: I, for some reason, wrongly thought that that always meant permission to have sexual relations with your spouse.
31:17: But that's just one way that conjugal visits can take place. It could be just anybody that's a friend or a family member and no sex involved.
31:28: So I didn't know that. And I learned something. Okay. By the way, we are going to our first commercial break.
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34:45: Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.
34:53: That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.
35:06: I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
35:18: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
35:25: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim
35:42: Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.
35:49: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
35:58: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
36:05: That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
36:14: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
36:32: To be on. Greetings.
36:47: This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.
36:57: SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties and much more.
37:07: We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com.
37:16: But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
37:30: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
37:37: In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
37:43: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
37:49: I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
37:57: That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
38:09: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
38:16: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
38:25: That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
38:35: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church.
38:42: A congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
38:53: Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
38:59: Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider
39:05: Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
39:15: Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
39:24: I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised
39:31: Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry, prayer and finances.
39:40: I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
39:45: Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
39:54: I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,
40:01: where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.
40:16: I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island.
40:22: I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my long -time friend and brother,
40:29: Chris Arnzen, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,
40:42: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring, cvbbs .com,
40:55: I want to enable you to build a wonderful personal library of the best literature that the
41:01: Reformers, the Puritans, and the great Christian minds of today have to offer and at affordable prices.
41:08: Not only does cvbbs .com offer up to 50 % off retail prices, but you'll get an added 5 % off orders of $50 or more by using promo code
41:23: IRON, I -R -O -N, an added 5 % off all of your orders of $50 or more from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
41:35: That's cvbbs .com, making the joy of reading the finest in Christian literature more affordable.
41:45: Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
41:51: So Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church, a
42:13: Christ -centered gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the
42:21: Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.
42:33: At Linbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired
42:38: Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
42:50: We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
43:06: Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear
43:14: God's image. If you live near Linbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the
43:20: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit linbrookbaptist .org.
43:27: That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace, you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
43:39: It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
43:45: The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
44:09: Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
44:18: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, going back to 2005.
44:28: One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,
44:35: Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
44:44: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
44:50: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
44:56: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger Catechism. Heritage is a member of the
45:01: Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
45:11: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
45:22: Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
45:28: For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
45:35: That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.
45:41: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them
45:47: Joe Roiligan, Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio listener, and Mattoy and Councilor Kildare Arlen, send you.
46:11: Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the
46:22: American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.
46:29: For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring, or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry, created exactly according to your imagination and specifications,
46:39: Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step by step through every stage of the process, and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit, using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to serve you.
46:56: They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.
47:04: From rough design to digital model, to photo -realistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.
47:19: This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed, and well beyond your expectations.
47:27: Visit royaldiadem .com. That's royaldiadem .com today.
47:34: Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife Bronnie, his business partner and manager
47:40: Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
47:57: Welcome back, brothers and sisters. I would appreciate, once again, prayers for my brother
48:06: Andrew, who is in Carlisle Hospital. I was just called by his physician, informing me that he may be in high probability of passing away soon.
48:24: So I'm asking for your prayers for a miracle, a physical miracle in my brother's life, but also a spiritual miracle.
48:32: And I just ask of you for the Lord's blessing, myself and my family, with emotional and mental and spiritual peace and trusting in the will of God.
48:50: So thank you for your continued prayers. But before the break, my guest today was referring to an arrest due to methamphetamine possession.
49:06: And were you selling the drug or were you just in possession of it? Well, a little bit of both.
49:13: There were times that I would sell it, basically just on a small scale to supply my own habit.
49:21: But actually, after getting out on parole the first time, after a couple of months of being out,
49:30: I worked. I at least tried to change for a little while. But that's when
49:35: I was introduced to methamphetamines for the first time. We called it Crank back then,
49:42: Bathtub Crank. It was homemade methamphetamines. And I began to shoot that in my arms every weekend.
49:49: And after a while, I couldn't hold a job any longer. And actually,
49:55: I was on parole for the seven -year sentence. And I had met a young girl that became my girlfriend.
50:03: She was 15 years old. I was 21. And her parents didn't like me.
50:09: They found out I was an ex -convict and how old I was. So they didn't want her with me.
50:15: But she ran away from home and I kind of took her with me and could have been charged at that time with another crime and could have violated my parole.
50:27: But long story short, she told her parents either to accept me or they'd never see her again, which they did.
50:34: And so my life from then on was just she and I. You know, just running around, doing drugs, selling drugs, smoking pot, shooting methamphetamines.
50:46: At that point, not working anymore, not selling enough drugs to really keep myself up,
50:53: I began to rob. And that's when my first robbery was during that time.
50:59: I got up in the middle of the night and went to another town and took a pistol with me and went in to rob a little convenience store.
51:08: Of course, again, you know, my career in crime, it just seemed like God just continued to put a monkey wrench in it.
51:22: No matter how hard I tried to become a big time criminal, it just seemed like God would just intervene and stop things from happening.
51:31: This first robbery I did, I went in and threw down on the lady and she,
51:38: I didn't know it, but they'd been trained to, they had a big stack of one dollar bills.
51:45: I mean, she gave me this big bag full of money. I ran off thinking I had a big score.
51:51: It turns out it was like $300 that I got. Made me upset, of course, but turns out it was my girlfriend, the girl
52:00: I was living with, it was her best friend's grandmother. And when she picked me out in a lineup, this again, another one of those things where I could have had a life sentence for that just God intervened.
52:15: Turns out she was a Christian and her and her granddaughter began praying for me and they refused to charge me.
52:23: So that was another crime I got away with, it seems right at that time. After I got arrested, because of the methamphetamines, actually the girl's parents began to try to get me set up.
52:38: They tried to set me up with the police on more than one occasion to try to get me out of her life because I was obviously ruining her life.
52:49: I was selling drugs at a party one night and a guy that I shot up there ended up dead that night.
52:57: So I became the suspect in a murder case. But long story short, they made me go start taking urine tests for my parole and I actually ended up violating my parole and going back to prison for a dirty urine sample.
53:17: So during that time when they arrested me and put me back in prison, or about to put me back in prison,
53:28: I planned an escape, which ended up getting debunked.
53:35: I actually we took my panels off of the buckets, my buckets, the big industrial yellow mop bucket.
53:43: I'm going to have to go to an early break, brother. The hospital's calling me. Thank you. Yes, sir.
53:48: It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
54:05: Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
54:14: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.
54:21: Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is
54:27: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
54:40: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
54:46: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
54:52: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
54:57: Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
55:07: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
55:18: Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.
55:24: For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
55:30: That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.
55:37: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them
55:43: Joe O 'Reilly, Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Ottawa in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
55:48: I'm Daniel Wolford, CEO and president of Lebanonville Credit Union, and we're excited to be part of the
56:10: Iron Sharpens Iron radio family. At Lebanonville Credit Union, we're proud to serve the community with six convenient locations across Lebanon County, Pennsylvania, and we're growing.
56:20: We offer competitive rates on everything from loans to savings, and we're dedicated to providing top -notch member service.
56:27: We pride ourselves on the credit union movement of people helping people. We are deeply involved in our community, supporting local events and organizations that help make a difference.
56:37: When you join Lebanonville Credit Union, you'll immediately notice the difference. Our focus on meeting your financial needs with personal care and a friendly touch.
56:46: LFCU can also offer you better rates and lower fees than our competitors. To find out more, please visit us online at lebanonfcu .org.
56:56: Membership eligibility is required, federally insured by the National Credit Union Administration. Terms and conditions apply.
57:23: I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the
57:34: Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.
57:45: At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired
57:51: Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
58:02: We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
58:19: Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern to all who bear
58:27: God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the
58:33: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lindbrookbaptist .org.
58:39: That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
58:52: It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast of the
58:58: Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
59:18: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
59:26: Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with, or switching to, the
59:31: NASB. This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the
59:37: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Butt of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the
59:46: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the
59:53: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Andrew Rappaport, the founder and executive director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and the
01:00:02: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi, pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the
01:00:12: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Christopher Cookston, pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the
01:00:22: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the
01:00:30: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
01:00:36: Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?
01:00:42: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
01:00:51: Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
01:01:08: If you love Iron Sharpens Iron radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.
01:01:17: One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is
01:01:23: Daniel P. Patafuoco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.
01:01:29: Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?
01:01:35: To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.
01:01:50: Patafuoco demonstrating the reliability of scripture. To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611
01:02:07: King James Bible. This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.
01:02:18: This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the
01:02:24: Tower of Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.
01:02:33: Originals of this work are in museums, and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.
01:02:41: You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.
01:02:49: Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.
01:02:56: Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. This is
01:03:12: Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:03:18: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
01:03:27: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our
01:03:39: Lord Jesus Christ, and of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:03:46: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:03:59: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:04:09: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:04:17: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign
01:04:23: Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.
01:04:33: Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in scripture alone.
01:04:44: Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.
01:04:51: We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
01:05:05: We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt
01:05:10: Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
01:05:17: Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.
01:05:25: Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com.
01:05:43: I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island.
01:05:49: I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my long -time friend and brother,
01:05:56: Chris Arnsen, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today.
01:06:01: I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,
01:06:10: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Well, with the economic nightmare that we're all currently enduring,
01:06:18: CVBBS .com, I want to enable you to build a wonderful personal library of the best literature that the
01:06:28: Reformers, the Puritans, and the great Christian minds of today have to offer, and at affordable prices.
01:06:35: Not only does CVBBS .com offer up to 50 % off retail prices, but you'll get an added 5 % off orders of $50 or more by using promo code
01:06:50: IRON, I -R -O -N, an added 5 % off all of your orders of $50 or more from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
01:07:03: That's CVBBS .com, making the joy of reading the finest in Christian literature more affordable.
01:07:12: Oh, and make sure that you tell them you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
01:07:21: Tom Horner Welcome back, brothers and sisters. Please continue to pray for my brother,
01:07:27: Andrew. As I said before the break, he took a turn for the worse. They don't believe that he will be, they don't believe his passing is imminent, but they believe that it is likely that that will eventually happen, barring a miracle.
01:07:49: And so please continue to pray for him. I plan to visit him again for the second time today, immediately following this interview.
01:08:00: I did visit him right before the interview, and he pretty much seemed as normal as possibly could in his condition, and not much different than I have seen him in the nursing home on frequent visits during the last several years.
01:08:18: But the doctors know more than I do as far as what's going on internally.
01:08:25: So please pray for that healing and pray for a palpably obvious profession of faith, a genuine profession of faith, so that I can have further peace about this and so that my family members can as well.
01:08:47: Before I return to my guest and his story about being an ambassador for Christ to men behind bars,
01:08:56: I have some prayer requests or requests from you as I do every day in regard to supporting this program.
01:09:05: If you do love this show and you don't want it to go off the air, please go to irontrepanzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.
01:09:14: You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. If you prefer the old -fashioned way of mailing a physical check from your post office to a physical address via snail mail, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at irontrepanzionradio .com.
01:09:37: If you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you wish to advertise is compatible with my beliefs,
01:09:45: I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as your donations.
01:09:51: So, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
01:10:00: I also want to remind you, please, if you are donating to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, as much as we urgently need your financial help to remain in existence,
01:10:13: I never want anybody cutting in to their own finances, set aside for their
01:10:20: Lord's Day giving to your own local church in order to bless us financially. In other words, never give your own church less money than you normally give your church in order to bless
01:10:30: Iron Trip and Zion financially. One of the pillars that I had in place when
01:10:38: I first launched this program in 2005 was that Iron Trip and Zion Radio would always seek to be a platform, a helping right hand, and a voice box to the local pastor that is faithful to the
01:10:58: Scriptures and the church that he shepherds. And I never want to do anything that hurts the faithful local shepherd, including financially.
01:11:07: So, please don't ever give your own church less money than you normally give your church in order to bless us with a financial gift.
01:11:14: And if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet before you send us a gift.
01:11:21: Also, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, theologically sound,
01:11:26: Christ -honoring, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live in the world,
01:11:33: I have extensive lists spanning the globe of faithful churches and have helped many people all over the planet
01:11:39: Earth find churches that are biblically faithful, sometimes just within a couple of minutes' drive from where they live.
01:11:48: And that may be you, too, no matter where you live. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:11:54: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And put I Need a Church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Ken Barber, my guest today.
01:12:05: For those of you who just tuned in, Ken Barber is a former prison inmate who was saved by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, and he is currently running a ministry to prison inmates in Belize.
01:12:30: We haven't gotten to the point where he launched that ministry yet, but this is a ministry that came to me with the highest recommendation of Pastor Greg Van Kort, a pastor of Dayspring Fellowship in Austin, Texas, a
01:12:49: Reformed Baptist congregation, and he highly recommended I interview Ken Barber, who is under the oversight of Dayspring Fellowship, who sent
01:13:00: Ken out as a missionary to prison inmates. That's Grace Outreach is the name of that ministry, and the website is goministries .com,
01:13:11: goministries .com. And we're speaking about the theme,
01:13:16: Being an Ambassador for Christ, You Men Behind Bars, a Former Inmate Story. So if you could,
01:13:22: Ken, pick up where you left off, if you can even remember that right now, because I was in such a state of being called by the hospital that I don't remember right this second where we left off.
01:13:36: So if you could please pick up where we left off. Okay, Chris, thank you. And again, we're praying for your brother, and we're sorry for the situation.
01:13:47: We pray God's will be done, and he'd be glorified in that. Amen. Well, just kind of to pick up,
01:13:54: I just want to say a couple things. I want to go over to the county jail for a moment, where I was the day
01:14:01: I got saved. I was facing 99 years. It was my third time down. I knew
01:14:07: I was never going to be free again. Just the fact that I had been arrested over and over again for the same crimes, after two convictions, they can give you what they call the small habitual.
01:14:24: I don't want to use the word that they use. It describes a female dog, but that's what they call it, the small habitual and the big habitual.
01:14:35: And I could have been given 20 years just for having been convicted of the same crime twice, not to mention all the other crimes that I had done.
01:14:48: And so the crime that I was charged with prior to my conversion was aggravated robbery.
01:14:55: After I got out of prison the first time, I got on drugs, and I committed a lot of crimes.
01:15:01: I don't want to go into all that, and I didn't get busted for them, but I ended up back in prison for dirty urine samples because I was required to stay clean, go to drug rehab.
01:15:18: But when I got out the second time, I wasn't out for like two weeks, and I got charged with nighttime burglary of habitation.
01:15:28: If there would have been the world's dumbest criminals back then on TV, I probably would have been on that. But I burglarized a place, cut my hand, left blood everywhere.
01:15:38: My car broke down, and I for some reason just scattered all the things that I had stolen around my car on the highway, hid some speakers under my bed, and woke up that next morning, and the police were standing over me.
01:15:53: Actually, they had stopped me prior to the burglary, and I was so drunk that they didn't want to arrest me.
01:16:00: They followed me and let me drive home, and it was after that that I did the burglary.
01:16:05: And so, I had them convinced that somebody stole my car, burglarized the place, and broke down on the road and threw all the stuff around my car to set me up, put the speakers under my bed.
01:16:17: So, they weren't sure if I was telling the truth or lying, but long story short on that,
01:16:24: I was arrested for nighttime burglary of habitation that carries five to 99 all alone.
01:16:32: During that time, I became convinced that I was going to go back to prison and planned an escape, took handles off of an industrial mop bucket, broke them in half, made four long shanks, and the guard would come every morning for breakfast, just one guard.
01:16:50: And so, I had planned that when he came to the cell that we would take him and we would escape.
01:16:58: Again, I'm trying to share with you some things that I did, but I want you to see how, in all of these things that happened to me, how
01:17:06: God just seemed to continue to intervene in my life. Somebody snitched on us about the escape temp, and so that morning, instead of one guard coming, three came, and I called it off.
01:17:22: We were searched. We hid the shanks. Nobody ever found them. I was put in another cell.
01:17:30: A couple months later, some guys from Houston found those shanks, attempted an escape, and they all got life sentences.
01:17:37: So, just another one of those times where God had just intervened and stopped what I was trying to do.
01:17:46: My grandmother started witnessing to me through the mail, and so one day, I prayed, God, if you'll get me out of here,
01:17:54: I'll serve you. And so, I know God don't make deals, but that's what
01:17:59: I told God. If you'll get me out of this crime, off of this sentence, if you'll just get me out of here this time,
01:18:07: I promise I'll serve you. So, on my birthday, not long after, they called me down to the court.
01:18:15: The court reduced my charge to criminal trespass and gave me eight months in the county jail.
01:18:26: It went from being nighttime burglar of habitation to criminal trespass. I did eight months in the county jail and got out.
01:18:33: The moment I stepped out on the sidewalk that day, God reminded me of my promise. I told him, if you get me out,
01:18:40: I'll serve you. But five days later, well, of course, I had a Bible in my hand, got home, somebody called me,
01:18:47: I put the Bible down and went back to my criminal business.
01:18:52: Five days later, I was arrested again, went back in jail where I met Ray, and from that time on,
01:19:00: I began to read Christian books. I heard two guards talking about me right actually while they were booking me in, getting ready to cut my hair.
01:19:12: I heard a guard around the corner say to another guard, I used to think, oh,
01:19:17: Buddy Barber might change, but I'm beginning to wonder if there's any hope for him.
01:19:23: For some reason, that bothered me. That stayed on my mind. I started thinking, am
01:19:30: I ever going to change? Is this going to be me for the rest of my life? Well, anyway, the chaplain came in, brought some books,
01:19:37: I began to read, and he gave me a pencil, and that pencil had a Bible verse on it. I put it in my belongings, never used it until, of course,
01:19:50: I got transferred to the next jail. But anyway, I met Ray while I was there at the time.
01:19:57: As criminals always do, we tell each other when we get out, well, I'm going to come back and see you. I'm going to put money on your books.
01:20:02: Ray told me, I'm going to come back and get you out when I get out. Of course,
01:20:07: I thought, yeah, right, that's what we all say. But sure enough, Ray came and got me out. He and his grandmother, and we went to Gonzalez, Texas.
01:20:17: He and I talked, and we said, we need to change. We need to change our lives and stop living this life.
01:20:23: We went to Gonzalez, and we were going to get a job and change. After about two weeks,
01:20:29: I got bored, and my mom sent me $20. I said this earlier, they told us we could probably get a job if we'd go to the bar where all the oil rig workers hang out.
01:20:41: So we did and gave out our phone number, address, and we were in Ray's grandmother's truck.
01:20:49: I saw this old man sitting there, and I told Ray, Ray asked me, can we drink a beer?
01:20:54: We drank two beers. After that second beer, I told Ray, I said, look, I can't change. I'm tired of trying this.
01:21:01: Let's just do something. So I saw the old guy sitting there, and I went over, and I devised a plan that we would trick him into taking us somewhere.
01:21:10: We'd rob him and take his car and go who knows where. So that's what we did.
01:21:17: We took him, took his car, left him on the side of the road, and took off. Now from then on, that began a crime spree for me.
01:21:25: There was really not any plan to it. I mean, I didn't have this great criminal enterprise idea that I was going to have some kind of big criminal enterprise.
01:21:35: It just became a spontaneous spur of the moment, one robbery after the next, just to keep going.
01:21:42: So finally, we ended up in Pasadena, Texas. There was an
01:21:49: APD out for us because of the car. So we decided we needed to get another one.
01:21:55: So we pulled into a President's First Lady's spa there in Pasadena, and this is where really the end of my hope began.
01:22:09: Because I was sitting there, and the lady came out of the spa, and I remember thinking, we're just going to rob her and take her car.
01:22:19: But I remember thinking, she looked kind of good, so I said, well, we'll just take her too. We'll take her car.
01:22:25: We'll use her for a couple of days, put a bullet in her head, throw her on the side of the road, and just keep going.
01:22:31: So that was my plan, right? Just sitting there in that car that day, I decided that I couldn't change.
01:22:38: I'm not even going to try anymore. I'm just going to give my body whatever it wants, and then when the police catch me,
01:22:44: I'll shoot it out with them, and they'll kill me. But my life from the time
01:22:50: I was 15 to this particular time was just a series of in and out of jail over and over again, just knowing that this isn't what
01:23:01: I need to be doing, but unable to change. So I just went on the crime spree that day.
01:23:08: I took the knife, the same knife used to rob the fire marshal, and put it to the lady's throat, and got her into the car, and I got in after her.
01:23:18: I turned to lock the door, and when I turned, she was gone. I didn't hear the door close or anything, but when
01:23:25: I turned, she was gone. And so thankfully, God let her get away, or God snatched her out of there, whatever happened.
01:23:32: But we took off and went and dumped the other car, ended up, Ray's family was from Salt Lake City.
01:23:40: They were Mormons, so we headed to Salt Lake City. We did several robberies on the way just to have enough money to get there.
01:23:48: Some of the Mormons began to try to get me to join the
01:23:53: Mormon cult, and hooked me up with a girl that just got out of prison trying to get me to join their little thing.
01:24:03: But in my mind, I knew I couldn't. I had so many things I had done that I knew
01:24:09: I was going to have to answer for. So when they introduced me to this Mormon girl who just got out of prison,
01:24:15: I just couldn't do it. So I finally told Ray, look, I can't do this. We're going to have to go back to Texas, and I'm going to go back and turn myself in.
01:24:24: That's what I thought. So we headed, we stole a car. We actually were going to steal the bishop truck, the bishop that we knew.
01:24:32: We were going to steal his truck, go back to Mexico, New Mexico, and go back to Texas. But we ended up stealing another car and another gun.
01:24:43: On our way through New Mexico in the mountains there, Ray told me, when you hit the ice, slow down.
01:24:53: It was like 17 degrees below zero. The roads were covered with ice.
01:25:00: Ray passed out, and I just kept driving. As soon as I hit the ice, the car turned sideways, and there was a huge cliff right there.
01:25:08: I just took my hands off the wheel, expecting to go off that cliff. But it's like something just reached down and grabbed that car and turned it back straight.
01:25:17: I'm serious, moved it over back into the lane I was in. I remember grabbing back onto the wheel and looking over to see if Ray saw that.
01:25:27: But I knew that night that God just saved my life again. We ended up in New Mexico, out of money, no gas.
01:25:37: We pulled into a roadside park. Like I said, it was 17 degrees below zero. The heater didn't work in the car.
01:25:45: We found out it didn't work because there was no water left in the car for the heat exchange.
01:25:51: We pulled into a roadside park, and I told Ray, we'll stop.
01:25:56: We'll just wait here. When somebody comes to use the bathroom, I'll go in and rob them.
01:26:02: We'll get gas money, and we'll go on to Texas. Sure enough, a guy pulled in next to us in a station wagon.
01:26:09: I remember looking over. There were two little girls asleep in the back of the car.
01:26:16: The guy got out and went into the bathroom. I followed him in. I was standing at the sink, gun in my pants, looking at him through the mirror, waiting on him to come over to wash his hands.
01:26:27: I was going to throw down on him and rob him. Go. While I was standing there waiting, something in my mind said, what about those little girls?
01:26:39: If you rob this man and he resists you and you have to shoot him, what about those two little girls?
01:26:46: Now, Chris, I never cared much about anybody. Not only the robberies and the burglaries and all those things
01:26:55: I've done, but I hurt a lot of people physically as well. I cracked one of my friend's head with a board with his pregnant wife standing in front of him begging me not to do it.
01:27:07: That's just how terrible I had become shooting methamphetamines. I remember that voice in my mind.
01:27:14: I knew it wasn't me. I know it was my thought, but it's like, where's this coming from?
01:27:22: I thought, if I shoot this guy, what's going to happen to those little girls? So twice, standing there twice, that came to my mind.
01:27:30: I finally decided I can't do this anymore. From that moment on, that was the end of my crime spree.
01:27:38: I went out and gave Ray the gun and told him, look, I can't do this anymore. We went back to Texas. We finally made it to Texas, hocked the gun, sold a bunch of stuff we'd sold, and made it back to Texas.
01:27:50: While I was in Texas, I got stopped by the police.
01:27:56: I had escaped from the Gonzalez police. We had been surrounded there in the house with orders for them to shoot us, but I escaped from them and came back to my hometown.
01:28:12: While we were pulling into town, the police stopped me and asked me if I had gotten things right.
01:28:22: I lied to them and told them I did, but my daddy was dying. That's one of the reasons I wanted to go back.
01:28:28: He had cancer, and he was in the bed dying that night. So I went and spent a couple hours with my dad and decided to go to a bar.
01:28:38: When I got to the bar, I got terribly drunk. I got so drunk that I had to go outside and pass out, so I wouldn't pass out in the bar.
01:28:48: When I walked out the door, some guys jumped me and almost killed me. They beat me pretty bad.
01:28:55: The only reason they didn't kill me was because my little brother went out and caught them and stopped them. They took me home.
01:29:03: I remember waking up two days later at my mother's house there in Brazoria, and my head terribly beat up.
01:29:11: My sinuses were cracked. My head was just terribly beaten. When the police pulled in and found out
01:29:22: I was still there, they came over and arrested me, and I finally gave myself up and went to the Brazoria County Jail.
01:29:31: But while I was in there, my dad died, and it just terribly wrung me out.
01:29:37: Of all the things I had done and all the things that were troubling me, I had beat my dad up just a couple months before when he was dying of cancer.
01:29:47: He died while I was locked up there in the Brazoria County Jail. They put a guy in my cell that was a
01:29:55: Christian, and he began to witness to me. My dad died and just tore me apart.
01:30:01: They weren't going to let me go to the funeral, but a black deputy that knew my dad, he talked the sheriff into letting him take me, so he did.
01:30:09: He told me, if you try to escape, I'm going to shoot you. I'm not going to kid you about it.
01:30:16: If you try to escape, I'll shoot you. I guaranteed him
01:30:21: I wouldn't, so he took me to my daddy's funeral. When I went and looked in the casket, it was my first encounter pretty much with somebody close to me dying.
01:30:32: When I looked into that coffin and saw my dad's body, I knew he wasn't in there. I knew it was just an empty shell.
01:30:39: From that time on, I began to think about death regularly. Every day, I began to think, where do you go when you die?
01:30:47: Well, miraculously, again, all of my charges there in Brazoria County were dropped.
01:30:55: They had an indictment on me from the Gonzales County, where I robbed a fire marshal.
01:31:01: They sent a 75 -year -old deputy there to transport me from Brazoria County back over to Gonzales County, which he did.
01:31:12: When he came, I thought, this guy's 75 years old, semi -retired, and he comes and gets me and takes me and handcuffs me in the front and puts me in the front seat of the car with him.
01:31:26: I thought, man, this must be God helping me escape, because I'm not going back to prison.
01:31:33: I already made up my mind. When he put me in the front seat of that car that day with the handcuffs in the front,
01:31:39: I began to devise a plan to escape. Halfway to Gonzales, he stopped to get gas.
01:31:47: There was a box in between us. He opened a little padlock on it and opened it up and got out a credit card.
01:31:54: While he had it open, I looked in and saw a 357 Magnum there, nickel -plated 357
01:32:03: Magnum in the box. He closed the box, didn't lock it, got out, put gas in the car.
01:32:08: I'm sitting there thinking, man, God must be on my side here. I'm handcuffed in front, got a gun,
01:32:15: I'm out of here. While my dad was dying, I promised him that if I ever got out of trouble again, that I'd change.
01:32:24: Each time I began to go for that gun to take that car, a promise came to my mind.
01:32:33: By the time I decided to go ahead and do it, it was too late. The deputy came and got back in the car and took me to Gonzales Jail.
01:32:41: That's where, while I was there, God began to deal with me. I mean, I've never been so miserable in my life.
01:32:50: Now, I had a chance to escape. I told the police there, I'm not going back to prison.
01:32:56: Y 'all have to kill me. And I meant it. But they locked me up, two guys in the cell with me, a little small county.
01:33:06: God began to deal with me. I began to, I mean, I got so terribly convicted, so terribly miserable.
01:33:13: I just, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't read. You know, typically in jail, you sleep, you read, that's how you pass your time.
01:33:23: But I couldn't do either. I was so miserable. So, you know, I kept thinking about my dad.
01:33:28: You know, I beat him up. Last time I saw my dad, you know, he had cuts on his face where I beat him up.
01:33:35: Now he's dead and I'll never be able to make up for that. Each night when I'd go to sleep, I'd have dreams every night, and somebody that I had hurt would come up to me in my dreams and shoot me point blank.
01:33:50: And each morning, each time I'd wake up just before I would die, knowing that I'm not ready to die, knowing that, you know, wondering where am
01:33:58: I going to go? What's going to happen to me when I die? Every night, five nights in a row, I went through this.
01:34:06: And I hated to go to sleep at night because I had to stay awake all day to hate to go to sleep the next night.
01:34:13: It just became a cycle for me. I started trying to decide how to kill myself.
01:34:19: The guards would come in every day and bring our food and I'd cuss them out and threaten them and tell them
01:34:25: I was going to kill them when I got out, whatever I could think, you know, just for something to do, basically.
01:34:33: But I just started trying to decide. I decided I was going to kill myself. So I was going to either get people to bring me socks until I had enough to make a rope, or I was going to take the razor that they gave me to shave, just cut myself and bleed out.
01:34:48: That was my final decision there to do that. But, you know, when
01:34:53: I made that decision that day, you know, there were Bibles and books there in the cell that the
01:35:00: Christian sheriff had put in there. And each time I began to feel like this, my attention would go to those
01:35:05: Bibles and to those books. And I remember just thinking, I've tried that before. You know, it just seemed like God was just trying to draw my attention to the
01:35:14: Bible. Right. And I remember thinking, I've tried that. I've prayed those little prayers. I've asked
01:35:19: Jesus to come into my heart and save me. And nothing ever happened. Right. So I ruled out becoming a
01:35:26: Christian. So I started thinking about killing myself. But Chris, it's really funny because sitting there, making that decision that day, deciding how
01:35:38: I was going to kill myself, that same voice in my mind that spoke to me in that roadside park that day about those little girls just said to my heart that day, and I know it's, you know,
01:35:51: God don't audibly speak, but God spoke to me again that day and put it into my mind.
01:35:57: If you kill yourself, you're not going to be asleep. Because that's what I thought. I'd be asleep and my misery would be over.
01:36:03: But God just said, you're not going to be asleep. You're going to be in hell. You're going to be more aware of your misery than you've ever been.
01:36:11: It's going to be intensified thousands of times and there won't be any parole out of there. So that's, you know, that's where I'd come to.
01:36:19: Ain't going to be no parole out of hell. So I couldn't be a Christian. I couldn't kill myself. So I thought, well,
01:36:24: I'll just write my mama a letter. So I had that pencil that that chaplain had given me and that other gel was in my bag.
01:36:33: And I also had two joints of marijuana that on my way out of that jail, when they transferred me, a friend of mine had been a trustee and they took them out to unload a shrimp boat full of marijuana that they busted coming out of Mexico.
01:36:49: And on the way back in, I was coming out and he was coming in and he reached into his pocket and handed me a handful of marijuana that he had stuck in his pocket, unloading that boat.
01:36:59: And so when we got up to the counter, I put it in an envelope and stuck it into my personal belongings. And so the deputy sheriff transported that with me all the way to Gonzaga.
01:37:09: So, so I had the pencil, I had a notepad. I had that little envelope full of, with marijuana in it as my personal belongings.
01:37:19: So that, you know, that day when God was dealing with me, God just kept saying to my heart, I sent my son to die for you.
01:37:25: If you'll accept him, I'll give you a new life. And I remember when God, when that came to my mind,
01:37:30: I remember thinking that's just too easy. I mean, I know my life is a mess. I'm miserable.
01:37:36: I want to die. I can't die. If I go to die, I'll go to hell. But God just said to my heart,
01:37:42: I sent my son to die for you. If you'll accept him, I'll give you a new life. But again, you know, that's too easy.
01:37:49: I mean, certainly, you know, I got to do something to earn salvation. I got to do something.
01:37:54: But that's what God put in my heart. I sent my son to die for you. If you'll accept him, I'll give you a new life.
01:38:00: Right. So I, I just ruled that out. Right. Because that's too easy. It can't be that easy. There's got to be more to it than that.
01:38:07: Right. But as I sat there thinking again, I thought, well, I can't kill myself.
01:38:12: I can't be a Christian. So I'll write my mother a letter. So I called the deputy and asked him to bring my belongings.
01:38:20: And I actually, Chris, I actually tore a Bible page out of that little Gideon Bible I had and rolled a joint and smoked my last joint that day out of a
01:38:32: Bible page in that cell. I didn't get high. I didn't even get high.
01:38:41: I thought, you know, instead of getting high, I mean, and they touted this in the newspaper, how high dollar marijuana it was when they busted that shrimp boat.
01:38:50: So it was good marijuana, but I didn't even get a buzz. All I could think was, you know, something's gonna happen to me doing this.
01:38:56: Right. So I got the pencil out of my bag and I began to twirl it in my fingers, thinking about what to say to my mom.
01:39:03: I'm just going to, I can't be a Christian. I can't kill myself. Let me just pour my heart out to my mother.
01:39:09: And my attention kept going to those books and those Bibles over there. And I kept saying, no, I've tried that.
01:39:14: But as I pour all that pencil in my fingers, I looked down and just, you know, just as a reaction,
01:39:23: I looked down and there was a Bible verse on it, 2 Corinthians 6, 17. And I just remember reading that.
01:39:29: Wherefore, come out from among them. Be you separate, saith the Lord. Touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you.
01:39:37: And I'll be a father to you and you'll be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord. But Chris, when I read that verse, it's like somebody just, it's like somebody pulled a light chain, like a light just came on in my heart.
01:39:49: When I read that verse, I knew, I knew God just spoke to me. I mean, it wasn't just a mental, you know,
01:39:57: I read the verse, but when I read that verse, it's like a light came on in my heart and I knew who them was.
01:40:04: I know come out from among them. I knew God was telling me that day, if I was going to come to him, I had to come out of my associations, the same homeboys and everybody that I had rejected
01:40:14: Christ for so many times. Come out from among them. Be you separate, saith the
01:40:19: Lord. Touch not the unclean thing. And I, that, that moment I thought about that last joint I had.
01:40:25: Come out from among them. Be you separate, saith the Lord. Touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you.
01:40:31: So I knew, I didn't understand all of that, but I knew God was telling me that if I was going to come, that I needed to come to him, that if I was going to come to him,
01:40:38: I had to come out, be separate, touch not the unclean thing. So from that moment on,
01:40:44: Chris, I knew that I, I knew what, I knew I needed the Lord. I knew he just spoke to my heart.
01:40:50: I got all those books, all those tracts that were laying there in that corner. And for two days, I read, got down to the last book.
01:40:57: It was a gospel of John booklet and it had the Romans road in the front. And then, and then after the
01:41:04: Romans road, it had a little thing said, you know, a little prayer. And it said, if you pray this prayer, sign your name, had a line there to sign your name.
01:41:12: So many times I had signed these things, prayed the prayer, but I already,
01:41:17: I didn't even read the Romans road. Cause I already know, I already know God's already assured my heart through that verse that I need, that what
01:41:24: I needed, I knew I needed to be saved. But so it said, if you prayed this prayer, sign your name.
01:41:30: So I got my pencil and got ready to sign another one. And then that same voice in my heart just said, you signed these before.
01:41:38: This is it. You come to me now with all, or don't ever come at all. And so, you know, this is my story, right?
01:41:46: I mean, I know God's talking to me, but I knew I needed to be saved. I knew that moment what
01:41:53: I needed, but I still just, I didn't know how to get it. I didn't know what, what do I do?
01:41:58: Right. So I just looked down at that prayer and there was that little prayer different than all the other prayers
01:42:06: I'd ever prayed. That was like, somebody looked into my heart and wrote that prayer out.
01:42:11: God, I know I'm a sinner. I can't change. Please come into my life.
01:42:17: And I, you know, I read it. I didn't verbally pray it, but as I read that prayer, my heart cried that to the
01:42:23: Lord. God, I know I'm a sinner and I can't change. And the funny thing was, was I had been trying to change.
01:42:30: I don't think anybody I knew that I was trying to change and knew that every time I failed,
01:42:35: I got worse. Right. But that day, when I read that, when I read that prayer, my heart just cried to God, God, I know
01:42:45: I'm a sinner. I know I can't change. Please come into my heart, come into my life and change me.
01:42:50: It's like somebody right there walked over and lifted a burden up off of me. I felt peace come into my heart, presence of God that I had never known before filled that cell.
01:43:03: As a matter of fact, my two cell partners were behind me, they're playing dominoes. And I remember thinking, man, that had to make some noise.
01:43:10: You know, so I turned around and looked to see if they heard anything. But they just playing dominoes and heaven came down, glory filled my soul and nobody knew it but me.
01:43:20: But I didn't know it. I didn't understand it, didn't know what to call it. I just knew right there that something happened to me and I knew
01:43:27: I'd never be the same. About 45 minutes later,
01:43:33: I picked up a Bible and opened it up and laid it on the bed and it fell open to John chapter three.
01:43:40: I looked down, read verse seven, verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, you can't see the kingdom of God.
01:43:48: And it's like this Holy Spirit just came inside of me, said to my heart, that's what you call it right there.
01:43:55: That's what just happened to you. So from that moment on, I knew I was saved. I knew from the scripture that I just got born again, never been the same.
01:44:08: Now, it took a long way to try to get to that, but that sitting there in that county jail that day,
01:44:15: Christ came into my heart, saved me. But the most significant part of that was when
01:44:22: I read that verse on that pencil. I'd heard the gospel. I had read many things.
01:44:29: But that day when I read that verse, it's like somebody just turned on a light. And from that moment on,
01:44:34: I knew what I needed. Amen. And two days later, when I cried out to him, that burden lifted up off of me.
01:44:43: Peace came into my heart. Never been the same. Amen.
01:44:50: Well, we are going to... Go ahead, brother. Yeah, I said that's my favorite part of the whole story there.
01:44:58: Well, we have to go to our final commercial break. And if anybody does have a question, there are questions that have come in.
01:45:09: I do plan on having my brother back on the program, Ken Barber, to get more in detail about the current prison ministry, grace outreach.
01:45:25: But I think we all needed to hear this testimony, this amazing testimony of God's grace and mercy in depth and in detail, so people will be more prepared to understand the background of grace outreach when we enter into a separate interview on another day with more details about that.
01:45:51: But if you do have questions, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.
01:45:57: We're going to be right back. I'm Dr.
01:46:23: Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and the
01:46:28: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com
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01:49:23: Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com
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01:49:56: Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.
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01:50:50: Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Greetings.
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01:51:38: But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
01:51:52: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
01:51:59: In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
01:52:05: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
01:52:11: He sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
01:52:18: That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners, and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
01:52:31: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
01:52:38: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
01:52:47: That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
01:52:57: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
01:53:15: God bless you. Welcome back. I'm going to just take one listener question because we don't have time for any more, and then
01:53:27: I want my guest, Ken Barber, to summarize what he wants most etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about the subject, but we do have
01:53:37: CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know, could you give us a short list of do's and don'ts when it comes to reaching out to prison inmates?
01:53:56: Well, that's kind of hard to answer, I think. Do's and don'ts. Do emphasize
01:54:04: Christ. One of the things that won me to Christ as a prisoner was not people who came into the prison trying to act like a prisoner, trying to be like us, to reach us, but people who were different.
01:54:17: I could see the difference in their lives. So if you're going to do anything, just be sincere.
01:54:23: Don't try to impress anybody. Just let your light shine and give the gospel, amen, because that's what saved me.
01:54:31: That's what changed my life. Amen. Thank you, CJ. If you could please now,
01:54:38: Ken, let our listeners know what you most want etched in their hearts and minds after this program.
01:54:48: Well, number one, salvation is a gift of God. I elaborate on my past history for one reason, and that's because I want people to see that God can save from the uttermost, from the gutter most to the uttermost, and it's by grace that we're saved through faith, not of works, so no one can boast, amen.
01:55:14: The important thing is, once you're saved, since the day I got saved, I've never stopped desiring to tell others about Christ, amen.
01:55:24: I did 24 years of prison ministry here in Texas, and when the doors were closed on that,
01:55:30: God opened the door for me to go to Belize. A man bought five acres and two buildings for me in to start the ministry.
01:55:41: So, if you're going to reach prisoners, preach the gospel, amen.
01:55:47: There's nothing else more important than that. Be sincere. Tell people about Jesus Christ, amen, what
01:55:56: He did on the cross. He paid my penalty, amen. He did my time.
01:56:02: That burden was lifted off to me that day in that jail cell when Christ came into my heart, because He paid the price.
01:56:10: He bore our sins in His own body on the tree, and our justification is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, amen.
01:56:20: Hallelujah, amen. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners know the website and all other essential ways to find out more about Grace Outreach.
01:56:37: I know the website is goministries .com. Go Ministries.
01:56:42: Yes, all our information is on there, too. Like I said, we did 25 years of prison ministry here.
01:56:52: We've been in Belize 15 years. I resigned from the prison recently. I've already gone to Guyana to try to get into prison there.
01:57:01: We're back here in Texas right now for medical reasons, but we're going to start reaching into the prison again while we're here.
01:57:09: So, everywhere we go, we try to reach prisoners, amen. That's our main thing.
01:57:15: Amen. Well, I would love to have you back on, as I said, to have a program where we focus on more details about your ministry.
01:57:24: I also want to give a plug to Dayspring Fellowship, the church that actually sent you out as a missionary to prison inmates.
01:57:37: Their website is dsf, for dayspringfellowship .org, dsf .org,
01:57:43: and that's Dayspring Fellowship, a Reformed Baptist congregation in Austin, Texas. Well, thank you so much,
01:57:50: Ken, for being such a phenomenal guest today. I want to remind my listeners, please pray for my brother
01:57:58: Andy, who may be entering into eternity a lot sooner than I expect or anyone else expects.
01:58:05: His prognosis is grim. We know that with God, all things are possible.
01:58:14: Picking up on that coloring book image that my guest was talking about of the camel going through the eye of the needle,
01:58:24: Jesus' words when they heard that it was harder for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle, then who among us can be saved?
01:58:33: And Jesus said, with God, all things are possible. With man, it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.
01:58:40: Please pray for Andy, that the Lord would be pleased and merciful to extend his life here on earth, and that he bears the fruit of a new life in Christ more vividly.
01:58:57: And please pray for me and my family as we seek to reach out to my brother in every moment that we are given the opportunity while he is still with us.
01:59:10: And please pray for me as I am going to be going back to the hospital right now to seek to minister to my brother once again for the second time today.
01:59:21: And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater