Video Games and Christianity?

Apologia Studios Livestream Introduction and Channel Overview

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Apologia.

Livestream right from our studio right now and apology of studios and a secret underground bunker. This is Marcus Pittman. How's it going? I'm Jeff Durbin and apology of studios. That's our channel. You guys can check out the channel.

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Yes.

The Biblical Worldview and the Apologetics of Everyday Life

And kind of what's up a bunch of things like talk about the biblical worldview and it's all-encompassing nature. Right. The authority of Christ is Lord over all things. That's right. All things and you say all things.

We mean all things all things. Even video game even even art. Yeah video games right. Movies. Television shows like the Christian worldview ought to have something to say in those areas. What does it does?

Yeah, that's that's why the word right. All right, and we do a lot of stuff about apologetics. Yes, and so Recently we started doing this series called called post bit right because your kids Watch a lot of YouTube videos of people playing video games.

Yeah, and a lot of them are vulgar. Mm-hmm and They're just not very. They don't want to go into much discussion as to like what is the worldview the video game, right? It's trying to like present to you.

Like what is this because a video game is a story right immersive, right? But it's trying to tell you something right and so we thought of this idea a while back ago Postman we first started the first things we wanted to do right and so we got to a point where we can do it and so we wanted to make a video game series that Discussed video games had a good time was entertaining right but also talked about theology.

And worldview around that as as a means of apologetics, right? Well, that's right. Yeah, so like a defense of the biblical worldview over against anti biblical and I'm and Hostile even worldview. Yeah, right.

And so and people might and we live in a culture right Marcus where people might. See something like that on a Christian channel that does a lot of apologetics and a lot of sermons a lot of theology. They might see like a video game review pop up and they might say.

What in the world is that doing there? That seems completely out of place. I would ask him. Well, what is apologetics?

What is what is apologetics? What's it's that. Find it, right? It's the apologia is there the word first Peter 315 that the Apostle Peter uses there. He says for Christians to set Christ apart as Lord in their hearts and to always be ready to give an apologia a reason.

Defense to everyone who asks us a reason for the hope that's within us. So it's a reason defense.

Yes of what. Of the faith of opposite, but it's defending yourself against the opposition, right? So Okay, do our. Is that only talking about other religions?

Well, that's that's that and that's that's exactly the point right is that the biblical worldview is is all-encompassing and so it answers every area of life, right. So whether it's.

Apologetic against bad economics, right. Correct government, right? Movies that are presenting to you bad art bad bad art. Yeah bad movies. Yeah people lying about God. With their art, right, right, right, but then you have this area now.

It's about video games. It's multi-billion dollar industry. It's bigger than Hollywood or going to be bigger than Hollywood. Grand Theft Auto 5 which is a game we don't endorse right and we don't play right but that that game made a billion dollars.

In three days three days and Star Wars took how long. Star Wars episode 7 goodness.

I don't know. It definitely wasn't a billion dollars in three days. It wasn't three days. No, no, no a video game did right. And that's the that's the franchise of Star Wars, right?

It's like what's bigger than Star Wars?

Seriously Grand Theft Auto, right, right.

Right, yeah, so so that's that's the thing like that's it's when you see a form of art that's being Consumed by our culture and there's zero Christians that are.

The Value and Limits of Video Games as Art

Major voices are major players in that realm. Yeah, there's Christians in it. Oh, yeah.

There's actually there's a lot of Christians that are actually developers right there's gamers. There's I heard there's some some some studios that are coming up. Yeah, but there's no real Discussion as to hey, what are these video games trying to tell us right, right?

Like is that is that okay is Grand Theft Auto's worldview that says you can go around steal people's cars beat people up.

Sleep with prostitutes. Is that okay? Yeah, is that. Is that a bit is that a is it a true interpretation of the world?

Yeah, and are and you're gonna immerse yourself in that for 60 hours of gameplay, right? What are you getting at like what is the value to that? That's right versus I'm gonna play No, man sky for 60 hours Of the same amount of gameplay, but am I am I getting some things that I can say?

Well, this is from a Christian worldview here. Like this is good or this immersion is okay. Because I'm I'm doing things like we had Colin Gunn on the show, right? Apology a TV Apollo. Yeah, it's on apology.

Yeah, check it out. So Colin Gunn was talking about how Video games are good because they can train people to do things without actually having them in it. Right, so like war right they can train you for war.

They can train you for even like medical procedures aviation.

Aviation. Yeah, right flying. Of course, right?

That's a video you don't fly.

You don't you're not even allowed to fly without a certain amount of time in the same hundreds of hours and the simulator is. It's a video game. Is a video game, right? Of course it is. So so there's a value to video games in that we can experience things.

Colin was saying did you bring up a good point? Colin was talking about and this really resonated with me the say there's a kid who's a kid who's his environment is he's raised in A poor community and maybe he won't be able to travel to different locations and places and experience certain things well video games can actually Provide that experience in many ways right you could you could do it sometimes we read books to our children and and it they it allows them to to form the story in their mind and to end for Their for them to have the ability to escape into that realm and produce this Response to the story right exactly and video games are a modern tool Technological advancement that allows us to actually tell stories, but immerse people into them, right exactly.

But they this is the argument and I know somebody's already thinking that's watching the channel because I've seen some of the comments. We ignore most of the comments, but we wanted to see as a test run.

What are they saying? Right, we're looking at right and seeing people say things like well, there's the risk of people becoming obsessed with or Abusing of course there and I and the answer that it should be obvious to everybody.

Yeah, that's a problem with sinners handling anything in God's world. We talk whether it's food whether it's sex abusing sex a good gift from God whether Anything you name it if if a sinner puts their hands on it, they can wreck it, right, right.

Right, and so it's not a good argument to say well people have sinned with this or I sin with this. So therefore nobody can do it and it's it's of the devil. That's legalism. It's legalism and it's completely anti-biblical, right?

Because if you think about what some of this is. It's art. God's an artist. It's story. God is the is the original master storyteller. Jesus was an amazing storyteller. Right, it's storytelling and there's there are elements within video games and really any media like this that Always do something and you you you were the one that first really brought this to me and I and I've never forgot I've never forgot it the elements of art.

Right, which makes something good art, right? Talk about that because that's that's a really important. I remember it. Well, I remember okay. Okay, I'll see and you can respond He said like when you look at God and his creative work.

It's true. It's true when God creates things. They're true. Right, so they're true. When he creates things they're holy, right and when he creates things, they're good. He says it's very good. And so he's our standard of artistry right has to be true has to be holy it has to be good.

Right, so there's a creative good a creative good, right? Okay. So so let's talk about that because Those elements of us imaging God really imitating God in his artistry, right really ought to be Around the world and the things that we produce so just real fast.

So think about hang on to it because when the unbelieving world gets hold of these things. They don't stop imaging God. We talked about this today in the radio show. They don't stop imaging God and doing art because they reject Jesus.

They still do art. They still tell stories, but they're unbelievers and they're not they're not gonna glorify God with their art and stories. So they're gonna go and do something else, right? So they ask ourselves the question do we want as Christians the unbelievers telling all the stories?

Do we want the unbelievers giving our children all the art or as Christians? Do we want to be the ones that are the Standard in that area, right?

No, it's like well. So if you take a game like Grand Theft Auto, right say it's it's good in the fact that the graphics are amazing. Like the level the size quality game the quality. Yeah, like they put a lot of work into it, but it's not holy.

No, and it's not true and it's reflection of God's world, right?

Right.

So you can just go around and shoot things and then you'll get you can kill the police and get away and There's no justice in Grand Theft Auto, right? So that's not a true reflection, right? But then you take a game and this will probably generate a lot of hate like No Man's Sky.

Which I'm really liking a lot. So No Man's Sky is is it's it's it's true to the world in that. There's there's laws and physics like there's commercial Capitalism and stuff and if you if you are aggressive on a planet or you you're not a good steward of a planet.

There's justice and that there's people that come after you and like try to kill you if you mind too much or whatever. So there's a true nature to it. It doesn't have to be it's not perfect snare. But there's a true next a true nature to it.

And then it's holy and that there's there's there's true good and evil in the game. There there are pirates who try to steal your things. That's evil. You're defending your your possessions and whatnot.

So there it's a holiness to it. I don't think there's any cuss words in the game. Because well everybody speaks a different language. So there's no cuss words. There's no immorality in the game. And then it's.

And I think it's just magnificent in time in terms of being good, right? Although there's a lot of people that disagree whether it's a good it could be better. It could be and they're working on making it better.

Yeah.

So so there's there's I mean just a scope of the game in terms of the size of the universe and it kind of makes Reflect on the size of like the universe that God made and that that the universe they made was 17 quintillion planets is probably a Lot smaller than the actual universe and it's fake.

Right, and then so there's a lot to go there from that game. You can say you can do that and you can just like it's a great game. Just yeah in terms of like redeeming the game like you're like spending 60 hours on a game.

That's a waste of time. But some people spend 60 times listen 60 hours listening to podcasts. But see I can play that game and I can listen to a podcast at the same time because it doesn't take a lot of Thought it's a good break and you can listen to a podcast Or a sermon or whatever as you play the game.

So there is a redemptive value in terms of your time, right?

It can be redeemed and it's a hobby right if it's an obsession if you're not if you're skipping work. Yeah, or abandoning your family and children and responsibilities in the midst of it. What's like anything else?

You need to repent of that idolatry and get it in the right place. But people have all kinds of hobbies. Some guys like to build certain things and some people make a lot of money with their.

Hobbies, yeah, which is like what's video game industries become right? We've got a multi-billion dollar industry that started with a hobby, right? So you can't say well that guy's wasting his time making food in the kitchen and this other guy Is making a billion dollars making food in a restaurant.

Yeah, right, right. So so there's value to both and so when we when I see an entire industry that's making billions of dollars and Christians are like, oh, I don't know if we should get involved in that and the pagans just.

They're already there. We'll give your kids. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you don't want to tell stories. That's fine. Well, we'll tell your kids stories. Yeah, we'll tell the story. So that attitude is dangerous that sort of isolationism.

Christian Cultural Engagement and Taking Dominion

Right is not okay in the history of the Christian Church. It wasn't always this way in terms of Christians and cultural retreat, right? You have Christians who were the movers and shakers in the area of arts in Architecture you have Christians that were movers and shakers in the area of education whether it was like long long long ago Oxford Cambridge those kinds of universities that were like Let's let's train you to think in a way that glorifies God and go out into the world and take Dominion Right and expand and study and observe God's world and do something in it.

And you have Christians who gave modern science the biblical world you get modern science. It's big Explosion you you did a I think a wonderful message at reform con on. You can thank biblical worldview and Christians for your smartphones, right?

Because that's what that's on the YouTube. That's on our YouTube channel, right? And so but so in the his in our history Christians often would even build churches that they knew that they would never ultimately finish.

Because their great-great-grandchildren would finish and then be worshiping in this place they built things to last generations and we live in a time where many Christians are Really committed to cultural retreat and surrender and we reap the rewards for that right now.

We've stepped away from culture in many ways. And so now the unbelievers don't go. Oh, we'll step away too, right? They say no. Okay. Yeah, I'll take that away. Please go away. Yeah, please go away. We'll tell your kids the stories.

We'll produce the media and the content we will tell people what's good. What's holy and what's true and you can you can step away? Whereas Jesus tells us as Christians to be salt and light salt acts as a preservative light dispels darkness.

And so Christians ought to be imaging God and be ambassadors for Christ proclaiming the excellencies of Jesus Christ in every area of life. Well, that means everything that means in my personal life that means in my family that means in my church.

That means in in government and it means like hey Really in art in television in movies because we our basic intention and we say it all the time is that Jesus Christ is Lord of all and that he is in charge of and Master over every realm.

So you I would say to somebody just tell me what Jesus doesn't have authority over. Tell me what area Jesus doesn't have something to say in. Now I think as Christians we did say well, that's it. That's a fallacious.

That's a fallacious form of reasoning right? There is no place where Jesus doesn't have say great.

So post bit. Yeah, you know people will say because this was something that came up. Okay is Jesus Lord over brothels.

Yes in the sense that he commands them to repent of their sins.

So shut the brothels down. Yeah, exactly. So if Jesus is Lord of the video games.

Why don't you just shut them down because in video games aren't inherently sinful. The the storytelling and art and neither is sex. Yeah, neither is sex. But storytelling and art is not inherently sinful.

Prostitution is Inherently sinful and Jesus has something to say about that repent and believe the gospel, right? But when you look at storytelling and art and all the stuff in media, it's not inherently sinful and Christians use it all the time.

So mix for example media. Chris, we're using media right now for the glory of God, right? Is there media is there stuff happening right now on the internet live through webcams? That's utterly sinful and Jesus has something to say about absolutely.

But are we using this to the glory of God and the exaltation is exactly and so when we look at video games We see an arena where Christians ought to be the one saying well, let's talk about that story.

Is that good? Is that a good story? Is that good art? Is that glorifying to God? Is that gonna stand the test of time? Like that that's the sort of things those are the sort of things that we ought to be doing as Christians.

It's a post bit is our feeble little stab. At saying as Christians, let's engage this arena and let's talk about at the very least encouraging others to do it.

Postbit: Two-Part Reviews, Theology, and Entertainment

That's right better than us. Yeah, right there. Yeah, so let's talk about post bit. Okay, because we've been trying to figure out how to do it. Okay, cuz we don't want a Jesus juke Theology into it like it's like.

Obviously forced and wedged. Like like finding the gospel and stranger things, right?

You know, right so we don't really want to do that right but we found that when we were playing it. We were it was very difficult to talk about the theology and stuff as we're playing it. Because we were talking about theology and then our characters just like walking in a wall.

We're not even paying attention because we're talking about theology and we die and so that doesn't really make for good stuff. But what we found was after we played the game. We were talking about the theology of it's just like you watch a movie you watch a movie.

You're not sitting down talking about every every element while you're watching. So what we wanted to do is find a way how can we? Play the game and have a good time if it's a game that you should enjoy have a good time, right?

But we won't be playing games that you can't do that. But so how can we play the game have a good time make an entertaining video? That's funny. And and and that can bring new audiences into on our YouTube that say hey these guys make great stuff.

What else they make and then they hear the gospel. Yeah, then they find apologetics and stuff like that. So that's one element, right? And then the other element is hey this there needs to be a serious theological discussion as like the content character of this game.

So the our post-it reviews are going to be two parts. One's going to be the fun. This is us playing and joking around and making jokes and stuff like that. And then the second part will be.

A.

Discussion of. And commentary of worldly discussion. Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's the plan right now good. So if you see one, you're like those guys are just joking around and like, you know, whatever.

Well, first off.

It's not nothing wrong with just joking around and having it Martin Luther said if you're not allowed to laugh in heaven.

I don't want to go there right and it's a studio channel. So it's gonna be all kinds of content in the future. Yeah, very various theological just and like that. But so there's gonna be that one element and then we're gonna we do really want it to be about theology.

That's why we're doing it right then. We're gonna have the second element. That's so so there'll be two videos a week. Okay on the game and the discussions and so.

The Gospel of the Kingdom and Christ’s Lordship Over All

Somebody might say you guys just need to focus on the gospel. Right and in my response to a person saying that is well we do Keep looking through the videos, right? It's all over and that's what our that's what our ministry is all about is proclaiming.

Then the need to repent and believe the gospel and trust in Jesus Christ and him their salvation and only in and through him through Faith, but but here's what I would say to somebody that says you just need to go about preaching the gospel.

I would I would say do you eat? Do you have hobbies? Do you play games with your kids? Do you do you do any sports, right? You know what? I say, let's draw that out. Do you really mean what you're saying and then I if I really take a stab at what I think they're saying I would say to them you need to stop believing in a truncated gospel.

Because you see the the gospel is the gospel of the kingdom which includes the salvation of sinners in Jesus Christ. But it's also the proclamation of who Jesus is. He's Lord, right? He's God, right and he is seated and ruling with all authority.

Matthew 18 20. Matthew 28 18 through 20 all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. That's past tense, baby. That's that's done and gone. Present tense having all authority in heaven and on earth which means that as Christians we come into the world as Representatives of the king and we tell his truths and his story, right?

And so we're supposed to come into conflict with the world and In the kingdom of this world with the kingdom of the Messiah and I think that means everything I think it means in every realm. I Listen, if somebody says well, I prefer to focus in this area.

I would say great praise God. Do it do it to the glory of God and do it. Well, we're gonna be over here doing just what we can't right like we're gonna hit where we can't you got a better idea? Go do that in your area because Jesus is Lord of everything and and so for us as a studio.

We want to be able to be light in the areas that we can and this is one of those areas because it's a huge.

It's a it's it makes me mad. Honestly, it really makes me mad when I see an industry that's void of Christian world. The Christian world like that upsets me great.

Christian influence. Right. Like it's missing. Great Christian. Exactly, right?

Like I don't like the fact that Steve Jobs made the iPhone and it wasn't a Christian. It was a Christian that gave him the ability to do it, but I mean I'm going even farther. I'm glad I'm with you know, you know what I mean?

So yeah, so I don't like the fact that Silicon Valley is run. Like Facebook is not run by a Christian and YouTube is not run by a Christian. Google was not owned by Christians directly. Yeah, you know what?

I mean like that bothers me. I know something along something will come along in the future. That'll be better and a Christian will be able to take credit for it for the glory of God, right? And so that'll happen but when I see stuff that Christians are absent from or void of.

Like that's that's an issue. And so so I think it's good that we say hey this these video games. Is Jesus King over it right now or the pagans taking over right now, right and say well the pagans look like they're running it.

Running the show. Well, it's time to stop them, you know, and we need good Christian game makers.

Christian Game Makers, Dominion, and the Future of Postbit

Developers Christian artists and because you could think about this for a second you could. If you had it Christians with like real dominant influence in this in this area. They could create stories and immersive experiences and games.

Where There are.

Consequences for wrong actions, right? And so it actually teaches even young people at a young age. That's not allowed right, right. That's a moral failure, right. And That can't even be allowed in a pretend world and when you do these kind of things in even a pretend world a story.

There are consequences and justice. Whereas a lot of the games today. It's just do whatever helter-skelter, it's just fun, right? It's yeah, I get to do this a thing and do anything I want and until when Christians start speaking into this area and actually are using our voice as dollar as Dollars capital, right?

So in other words when game developers are creating games with really bad stories and really immoral stuff as elements in the game. If Christians speak into it within their voices amount to capital, right?

Right then the game developers go. We can't tell these bad stories. Exactly people don't won't purchase bad stories, right? If it's if it's if it's really grungy underground bad art and stories really gritty.

Seedy stories it belongs in an alley. Right sold by a guy wearing a trench coat, right and and they're not making a lot of cash. They're not they're not on the top shelf. That's right. Yeah, right. We need we need that kind of stuff to Disappear where it belongs for the good art and the good stories to be a top shelf in front of everybody else and there's a standard.

But here's this is my final point. Where's that standard come from? So come from unbelievers. They got an ultimate standard. They got something they can appeal to and say that's good storytelling. That's good art.

That's true and good. They don't have that standard because an unbelieving worldview can't give you an ultimate standard to say This is the standard of good art and story now Christians actually have the God who gives us that so Why would anybody suggest we don't talk about this?

We're the one with the standard right? That's apologetics.

Exactly. Yeah, that's right. I think it's the idea just that Christians aren't allowed to have fun. Right, right. So like when God made Adam and put him in the in the garden, it was just work. That's it except for that one day and then you worship me and then it's back to work again, right?

But there there there was there was joy. There was food. There was a wife in the garden, right? There was joy and entertainment that was available to Adam in the garden. Right, and so that still applies how God is Lord over entertainment.

And entertainment is a gift from God to us to enjoy and it's not a Gnostic of you or we say anything. That's you know material or earthly or worldly. You know, this is God's world. That's right. And the things that we enjoy here.

Can glorify God right if they're truly and if somebody said something to the effect or something and they aimed at something like well I think technology is abused today and it's pretty much evil and evil dominates technology.

First of all, I would completely disagree with that. But if they suggested such a thing and they're watching this video right now, I would say you're watching technology. Right now right before you and you're using media right now right before you you're spending time right now.

Not reading the Bible exactly to watch that to watch this video, right? It's digital technology and you're learning and you're hearing truth spoken and hopefully right and truth spoken and and a particular Worldview.

Well, that's also over here in the area of video games, right? Same this technology is telling you a story you're learning right and you're not reading your Bible, right? Exactly, right, right, right.

And and the same thing is like when you read a book, right? You're immersed in that book. There's no difference between being immersed in a video game and being immersed in a book.

It's it's the experience is.

It follows your head. Yeah, right. It fills your head your imagination and whatnot. Video games might help that they might be able to add a different level to that and then Colin Gunn says It's one of the greatest forms of art today because of how immersive it is, right?

That's not a bad thing. That's one of the beauties of the game of video games is it's an it's the most immersive form of art available. Mm-hmm, and so so that's a good thing. And so books an audio book or listening to a sermon or what listening to a podcast?

It's still an immersive experience in some way and if it's not immersive, it's boring and you're not paying attention to it. That's all the forms are so video games is just another way to consume art media.

And so Christians need to be producing.

What's being consumed and the reason I would say that people are so Drawn into these sorts of things movies TV video games is because We have a natural propensity towards art. Right, right, of course, and it's inescapable.

You're not gonna get away from it. I mean you look at kids like my kids last night came home and they just busted out all these Papers and with watercolors and paintbrushes and they were just going to town painting stuff and they were painting my face and you know.

They couldn't help themselves like give them a paintbrush and colors and they're just going out their image bears. Is there image bears. And that's not gonna go away. And so here's the point Christians Image of God means a lot and it's not going away.

Yeah, and you can't suppress it and you can't suppress. A lot of Christians think they can suppress the image of God, right? Yeah, and that takes them out of the world. That's right. Just suppress all these natural godly desires I have right I'll be like the good Christians.

No, no, that's good. You're you're a good Christian because you have this godly desire, right?

And the point is is like I said unbelievers They're gonna image God whether they were they submit to Jesus Christ or not, right? They're in sin and they're gonna be condemned for not turning to Christ, but they're not gonna stop imaging Jesus.

They're not gonna stop imaging God. They're gonna be artists and then my our point is is that Christians need to stop allowing the unbelievers to take the lead. In telling these stories and doing this kind of art and immersive experiences Christians ought to be the ones that actually set the standard.

Now, what's that? What's that mean for us today in? 2016 an apology a studio is doing a thing on post bits, but we don't have any grand delusions about What exactly we're gonna accomplish with post bits?

But we're trying to say there needs to be a seed planting now where Christians start saying, oh, yeah, that's right.

Jesus actually isn't charge everything. Yeah, but think about this. So think about this goes back to capital, right? Right say post it does become successful. Just like it does become successful to a point where Developers are sending us games to review and talk about and some of the games we get are like man we're not talking about that game that game is garbage and Nobody hears about it.

We don't play about it. We don't talk about it. They're gonna they're gonna start making games that The Christians who are the voices and the reviewers and the the curators of art on the planet. They're gonna start making games that the Christians hang in their museums.

Yep, right. So that so that's the ultimate thing is like how do we get it to where the Christians are the curators of the garden again? Mm-hmm because the curators of the garden is not Adam anymore. It's it's it's it's.

This is the serpent, right? So he's curating the garden right now. We're like, oh We just better stay away from the garden. Right, right, there's there's an animal talking we got to get away as opposed to saying wait a minute, let's take it back.

Right, it's ours. God made that for us. Why are they why are they curating the Museum of God's art? Right, that's that's that's that's what we need to do. That's that's the hope with post bit and other things we make right future that might just be entertaining or hey.

Look, this is a Christian comedy. All right, this is this is a Christian drama. This is a Christian short film, right? Not everything might be Expository from Scripture, right but that worldview is gonna be there for sure and everything we do we can't help that.

That's right. We love Jesus. Right, right.

So so even even even the video game reviews we do we're just joking around or playing around are still gonna be of The Christian worldview right. And then we're gonna take it to another level and really dive in but but that's what that's what I'm saying.

Like this whole world is ours. So everything we do that's good and right is amazing even if it's not a gospel track, that's right.