Perseverance — George Verwer

Perseverance and the Danger of Growing Weary

But I'd like to move in now to just share some of these thoughts about perseverance in the life of a believer. I know it's late, I know you're tired, but I'd ask you to bear with me. You see, it's easy to get excited.

We've been getting excited at this conference. We move into a new project and we get excited. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't feel guilty about that. There's something wrong with your heart if you don't ever get excited about the work of God.

I'm excited about the fact that Billy Graham these days is preaching over in Hungary. That excites me. I'm excited about a lot of things that are happening in the Christian world. But I do believe one of the greatest weaknesses in the present-day evangelical scene is perseverance.

Perseverance. How easy it is to start. How easy it is to start. Let's look at a few scriptures. For example, Galatians, one of my favorites. I probably gave it to you in the summer. Let's look at Galatians chapter 6.

This verse has helped me again and again. Verse 9. Let us not be weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not. If God tests us in regard to this ship, it doesn't work out, we're not going to get weary.

We're not going to get weary. If a major persecution broke out, a major change in the social order broke out, and all the fun stopped coming in and every kind of problem you can think of came upon O .M., well, half of us would go to work or half of us would go farming or we'd do something, but we wouldn't grow weary.

Perseverance Amid Social and Philosophical Change

There are tremendous changes taking place in the world today. I don't know if you keep up with philosophical trends, with trends in modern thinking. I don't know if you're aware of what's happening in France right now.

This is one of the most incredible moves and shifts in the area of philosophy since Marx came into the scene. A whole spectrum of the top intelligentsia of the young Marxists of France have totally turned against Marx.

They're now writing Marx is dead. And they have shifted into a conviction that there is no ideology that will help society. Of course, they're not becoming Christians, but their leader, their number one inspirer is Solzhenitsyn, who probably is a Christian.

They also go around quoting even Jimmy Carter. Not that they agree with everything he believes, but they are very pro the dissidents. And when Brezhnev, I think it was Brezhnev, one of the top big communists came to Paris, they all had a big meeting somewhere else with leading dissidents.

And just a whole big army of top French philosophers are finished with Marxism. Actually, they're finished with socialism. They believe that socialism is a dead-end street. Of course, they also believe capitalism is a dead-end street.

Those of you right-wing ringers don't get too excited. But it is exciting to see these changes. And I believe this could possibly open, I have a burden to send every one of these new philosophers in France some really key literature.

If even one of these men could be born again, it could alter the lives of thousands. Because so far we have been so weak in Europe to break into the intelligentsia. And this is almost a whole message in itself.

But no matter what happens, no matter what happens, we cannot grow weary in well-doing. Another scripture that's been helped to me is 2 Corinthians 15, 58. Be steadfast, unmovable, always, is it 1 Corinthians 15, 58?

Be steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord. For as much as ye know, your labor is not in vain in the Lord. This really frightened me on the ship today. I thought, who, where are the three people who are going to work in that laundry all day long?

Perseverance in Difficult Practical Work

Where are the 15 people who are going to work in that engine room? I tell you, it was hot, hotter than the Lagos engine room because there's some steam things down there. The rudder on this ship is operated by something that actually probably will eventually be able to sell to a naval or merchant navy museum.

It is a 1914 steam-operated rudder control. I said to the engineers, I said, look, if this breaks down, can you fix this thing? They said, look, this thing is easier to fix than any of the new stuff that they got today.

And Graham Scott, who I thought would be very pessimistic about this, he explained how if this breaks down, you just tie a rope on one end and tie a rope on the other end and you attach that to the winch and you keep the rudder going.

Well, my vision increased for the London office. But I wondered, where are we going to get the 15 people to stick it out in that engine room? This ship probably, Mike Poynter said, a chief engineer, one of the top officers, will have to be in the engine room all the time because it's a boiler.

It's more complicated. It has 18 pistons. That's just in the main engine. Then there's generators all over the place. And they all have pistons as well. Don't ask me how many pistons are in the generators.

But, you know, I can remember Lagos. I remember one real exuberant engineer. I remember him coming to me after the second month. He said, I can't stand it. I can't stand it. I got to get out. I want to get in the ministry.

It's rough. And who are the men that are going to paint? Then we looked at that aft deck. The aft deck is about twice the size of this room with a swimming pool in the middle. Not quite twice the size.

It's got this big alcove there. But it's big. And that's all wood. And that has to be caulked when the water goes through. And then, you know, you're having your soup and it gets thinner as you take it because the water is coming through from a deck that's not been caulked properly.

That takes hours, weeks. We'll have to paint three times as much all year round as on Lagos. I don't know if they have machines that put paint on. I've never seen them spraying ships. It is a lot. And that's true of every aspect.

The lineup job will be three times more difficult than the present lineup. Because we cannot run a ship that's going to cost us $2 million a year and come into a port and get 15 people sitting in a pastor's conference because the lineup man didn't know what he was doing.

And he is going to have to have... He is going to really have to be one of God's supermen. And we have very few people sticking in lineup. Lineup is the death trap of the ship ministry. They all apply for resignation after one year, apart from a few real nutcases like Peter Conlon and a few other characters.

So that is going to be a big thing, a big thing. And this is not just true of the ship. The ship is on our mind right now. It's more true in the Muslim world. The ship is a playground next to working among Muslims for 20 years.

Training Young People for Long-Term Missionary Service

But the burden of this ship is to get young people. We know 50 of the young people today are lazy. We know the other 50 are spoiled. We know we produced the greatest generation of grasshopper Christians that have ever tried to read their Bibles.

We're aware of that. We're part of it. But we believe that if some men can stick in that laundry and stick in that galley... Do you know how many cooks they have on this ship? Do you know how many cooks?

Fifteen cooks. That's not counting the assistants. They got a soup cook. They got a biscuit cook. They got a cook to cook the cooks. I don't know. They got everything. The galley was so big it looked more like a bowling alley.

And hot. Galleys are not air conditioned. They specialize in fried food and fried people. Who's going to stick in that galley, you know, one or two years? Praise God. We think of Alfred Boschbach, still on Lagos.

He joined us when the ship was in Rotterdam. Oh, this is what we're going to need. And when men have put their year or two on the ship, we want to see them graduate into Turkey, into the Muslim world.

Someone wrote me a letter this morning saying, Lagos isn't sending more people into the Muslim world. I counted up, bang, just like that, six Muslim, ex-Muslim, ex-Lagos people in the Muslim world right now.

That's on OM, but we're not mainly thinking of OM. A number of others, when I was in Bangladesh, 15 ex-Lagos people are laboring in Bangladesh right now. Right now. I was just speaking to them a few months ago.

Others, because when they came to the ship were very young, very, very young, they haven't got out there yet. Because we know often it does take years of training before people are ready for some of these difficult fields.

I think of Yanni Norblom, who now is headed out to the ship. I'll catch that. I'll catch this 455. Let me just take this. Yanni Norblom just got his prayer letter. He was one of the original Lagos men.

Quiet, shy fellow. Now he's got training on the ship. A little time in India. And he's going out. Somebody said Indonesia, but I think it's Thailand. One of those two countries. I think of our second mate going out.

Met his wife on the ship. What's that brother's name? Rory McKenzie at Bible school right now. Headed out to the east. I am just convinced that whatever we do worldwide, it's linked with this thing of perseverance.

Perseverance. If this ship isn't the ship, then we've got to persevere and find the right ship. One of our greatest problems in O .M. is to find people who stick at the job. Bookkeepers who will stick.

Who at the end of the year aren't always looking for something new to do because bookkeeping can be a little bit boring. Some of our jobs, they change. I mean, my job changes from one day to the next.

Sometimes I almost lose my identity. I wake up, I'm not even sure what continent I'm in. I don't even know what bed I am. I have nightmares. Suddenly I'm crawling through portholes or riding on Jonathan McCrossley's back.

Other people, it's the same thing day in and day out. Day in and day out. Day in and day out. We need men who are going to persevere. William Carey said, give me plotters. Give me plotters. What are some of the secrets of perseverance?

Persevering Through Discouragement and Unanswered Prayer

I don't hold myself up as a great perseverer. 22 years is not much, is it? But for some of you it seems like a lot. It doesn't seem too much to me in one way, but to some of you, 22 years, you've been going 22 months for Jesus and already your batteries are getting rusty and you're wondering how far you will go.

And I want to just share from the word of my own experience, what are some of the things that keep us persevering? How have I maintained a vision and a burden for Turkey now for 19 years? Every time I go to Turkey I go into a major depression almost.

I can't pretend that I've seen even 5 of my prayers answered for Turkey. The 5 is very exciting. But we prayed some pretty big prayers. I'm going to Turkey in November to speak at the Turkish Workers' Conference.

All the people working in Turkey, not just the OMers. They all work together down there. Don't worry about labels. We don't use these labels in these countries. These are some of the things that have helped me.

The Word of God as the Foundation for Perseverance

First of all, the word of God. Verses like this. Memorize them. This morning I just felt I couldn't read my Bible. It was in my case and I was on a plane. So I took out my little navigator pack and I just memorized this morning.

I hope that doesn't offend anybody. I just memorized for half an hour, an hour. The word of God. And as I was going through some of these verses, so many of them seemed to be preparing me for the day.

I mean, I just grabbed about 10 different packs like this. I just happened to grab them. I don't know where I found this. I'm a little unsystematic sometimes. And I found this. And yet as I went through it today, so many of the verses were linked with today.

What the Lord wanted to do to me today and what he wanted to work into my heart today. But they that wait upon the Lord. This is one especially God hit me with on the plane. They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

They shall mount up with wings of eagles. They shall run and not be weary. They shall walk and not faint. I thought when I got to the ship I'd collapse from exhaustion. I've had less sleep in the past 48 hours than I've ever had in the last probably 13 years.

Because I don't like to miss sleep anymore. I don't believe it's good. I may get not so much, but you know you need that 5, 4, 5, 6 hours. And I thought I just, you know, I wouldn't even be able to think straight.

And yet I was just completely, as far as I can tell, alert and able to carry on that inspection. And then some of these verses, especially from Isaiah 41 .10,. Fear thou not, for I am with thee. Be not dismayed, for I am thy God.

I will strengthen thee. Yea, I will help thee. Yea, will I uphold thee. With the right hand of my righteousness. The Lord is good and stronghold in the day of trouble. He knoweth them that trust in him.

Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of good courage. Be not afraid. Neither be thou dismayed. For the Lord thy God is with thee, whithersoever thou goest. One of the secrets of perseverance in the life of the leader.

He's a man of the word of God. He'd rather forget his breakfast than miss the word of God. We've got to persevere in our memorizing of the word of God. We've got to go to the word of God when we feel dry, when we're afraid.

And we've got to allow it to build us up. I think that is a major factor. As a young believer of 17, I began to memorize hundreds of scriptures. It was one of the most powerful factors in my whole Christian life.

Persevering Because Life Is Short and Eternity Is Real

The thing that motivates me in perseverance is that this life is so short. This life is so short. And if the Bible is true, and that's another major thing that causes us to persevere, then the way we are living, what we are doing is absolutely logical.

It's absolutely logical. Time is so short. I can't believe that I'm 39 years of age. It seems impossible. It's just gone like that. And when you look back over your life, when you're 39 or when you're 69, what do you think is going to count?

All the fun you had? There is fun in the Christian life. You had some fun today. You can't go through all in one day without laughing. You can't be around Mike Pointer and Rexworth and Graham Scott. Frank Dietz.

You're going to laugh. They can't look at me, and they barely look at me, and they'll start laughing. But the great managing director arrived. My shirt was 10 years out of date. The tie was too big. I took all that off.

I've got my undershirt on now. I borrowed this last night. I asked the brother if he had a T-shirt. This is all he had. I guess he must have dropped it in some ink. But I believe there is time for fun.

But really, most of the time, we've got to be serious in the work of God,.

Not letting days just dribble by.

Time is short. That challenges me, not to waste any days. I don't believe in staying away from the Lord, certainly not for a day. I don't believe in being away from the Lord at all. But I've been preaching this year, challenging people within OM, that we don't have to backslide.

It's not the normal Christian life. Go weeks bitter about somebody or with hatred or upset or depressed. Because of the cross, because we can repent, we can be renewed, and we can know what it is to go to bed every night, cleansed and free and worshiping the Lord, even if sometimes we feel terrible.

Persevere. Perseverance is so logical when we think of the shortness of time. The shortness of time. I think of those who were with us a few years ago, J. Sonnenday, Sharon Brown, Chris Begg, Helilee Begg.

You hear they were singing ministry. Gone. That's when your faith really gets tested, you know, when God starts to take some of your real friends. Then you discover all this stuff you're preaching out in the open air like a wildcat, whether you really believe it.

People actually are saved and go to heaven. I tell you, God has tested me to the root, and I've seen how little faith I have sometimes. And it's shaking me. You know, this whole thing of heaven, it's there.

God's Word is true. And the only way it operates is faith. You can't get a picture of it. Some of you want a picture of heaven. You have people drawing such pictures. You can't get any pictures. You have people asking, where is it out in the universe?

Then, when I was arrested in the Soviet Union, 61, this big, bald interpreter, she says, come in one day, she says, we've just put a man out in space, and we've looked around, and heaven isn't there, and God isn't there, and that proves it finally, once and for all, there is no God, and there is no heaven.

Can you imagine being so naive as to believe that? They do believe that. They look down, not there. You know, God is so great, and just the Einstein theory of relativity, if you've studied the Einstein theory of relativity, I've only studied a little, and studied the whole thing of the curve, and this thing of the relativity of time and space, and then the light year, the whole principle of the light year, and you know, we can get in an airplane or a jet, and if it could go faster than the speed of light tonight, we could watch Jesus Christ on the cross tonight, we could watch Noah going into the ark, and we wouldn't even be out of our galaxy.

Our galaxy has millions of stars. There are millions of other galaxies. I mean, God, the way God has ordered all science, you know, heaven could be right in this room. You let that one bother you, you'll probably think I'm a heretic.

Spiritual Stubbornness and Holding Firm Convictions

But there's no problem with a great God to find a place for heaven. Perseverance. Another secret of perseverance, I believe, is what I call spiritual stubbornness. Some of you sold your backbone and put in a wishbone 10 or 15 years ago.

I don't know why, and you've got to ask God to give you a backbone. You've got to become spiritually stubborn. On some issues, you have to say, here I stand, you dig your heels in like Martin Luther. In many things, you're willing to compromise, you're willing to bend.

But on some issues, you say, no sir, this is where I stand. This is where I stand. I believe in world evangelism. I believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe Christians must love one another. I believe some of these other basic principles.

You just dig your heels in, and the cold water comes, and the laughing comes, and you get misunderstood by your parents, misunderstood by your closest friends. And you'll acknowledge if you make mistakes, and you sin, you'll acknowledge that, but you won't compromise your conviction.

Spiritual stubbornness. We need people who have that kind of stick-to-it-ness, because they love God, because they love Jesus. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. Keep my commandments.

Looking to Jesus Rather Than Circumstances

We need to be stubborn about that. I think that's so important. Another key to perseverance is keeping our eyes on the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Wow, look at that in Hebrews. Hebrews chapter 12. Looking unto Jesus.

We should all have that memorized. The author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Doesn't that cause you to want to persevere? Looking unto Jesus. You look at men, you will get disappointed. You look at situations, you'll get discouraged. You look too much at yourself, you'll get depressed.

You look at Jesus, and you'll go on from victory to victory, with or without feelings. That leads me to another major secret of perseverance that I've emphasized throughout the summer, so I'll just touch on it tonight, and that is not living by feelings.

Today I felt pretty good. I've been through one of my major feelings ordeals somehow. Even though I've been tired, my feelings and my mind has been relatively well, even on the airplanes, which is quite a victory for me.

But tomorrow it can just change, just like that. And if you have that problem, one day you just feel so with it, you even love OM. You're just feeling good. The next day, just like that. You want to get out of this thing, you're all tied up inside, you sense nothing but failure, or maybe fear.

I tell you, when I go into one of my fear of death phases, I almost come out pink, blue, and purple. Any of you ever have a fear of death? Fear of the unknown. Even though we believe in heaven, we believe the word of God, it is still unknown.

It still isn't a step out. You don't find many people, even the great preachers about heaven, sort of running in the pearly gates, do you? People battle pretty hard to survive. It's one of man's greatest desires, is to survive.

You know, you don't find too many, you know, oh boy, heaven, maybe tomorrow, maybe I'm going to get killed tomorrow. You know, I think one of the things that's helped me to persevere, just a little side thought, is I've had to accept my humanity.

We get people in OM, they don't accept their humanity. They get all these great messages and great challenges and ideals and visions and a few hallucinations thrown in which are deadly, and they don't accept their humanity.

Their unwillingness to accept the human element. And as humans, we are going to battle fear. Faith is not produced in the absence of fear, it is produced under the fiery dart of fear as it comes and assails your soul.

For one, it's fear of one thing. For someone else, it's fear of something else. Some people's fears, they make me laugh. I've never even thought of it. And I'm sure my fears must make them laugh. Fear of failure seems to grip some people to a point where they can't produce.

They become almost paralyzed. Fear can paralyze you. Graham Scott was telling me about a Christian group that just went climbing up in northern Wales. Relatively easy climb, but even in June, you can hit bad weather.

This group was not prepared. They were foolish. They hit bad weather, and one fellow experienced total paralyzation at the top of those mountains. They had to get the mountain rescue team just to move him.

He was frozen by fear. Fear paralyzes. Love casts out fear. That's why I will not entertain fear when I start feeling this coming on me. I just fight it with everything within me because I know ultimately if I dwell on fear and I allow it to seep into me, it will paralyze me.

I've had similar experiences. Perseverance is linked with this thing of learning, not to live by feelings. Probably the fiery dart that's cutting more leaders down than any other fiery dart is a combination of pride and immorality.

Every week I hear about seemingly another leader knocked out through immorality. A brother shared with me yesterday, a fellow I was just with six months ago. He's a Christian leader in another organization.

He shared with me just yesterday. We were having some time together. He's just gotten his guy's divorced his wife, and he's committing fornication with some girl, and he's out of the battle. This is an area where we have to build up every area of our armor, sharing with others the word of God, the disciplined life, exercises, eating right.

By the way, a top group of research people have just met together, and they have further confirmed that too much sugar and fatty food is deadly for the body. And they're now absolutely convinced, this particular group, that fatty foods and so much sugar is a major cause of two forms of cancer.

And boy, I tell you, some of the junk food that we eat, we wonder why sometimes we don't have energy. These are problems. These are problems, and I don't have easy answers, especially in some of the situations we get in, in OM.

Persevering by Faith Rather Than Feelings

And ultimately we have to learn to trust the Lord. Perseverance, living by faith, not by feelings. Our eyes upon the Lord, not upon people or circumstances or situations. Don't get out of the train when you're in the tunnel.

Wait to the station. And I tell you, when you're in a time of depression, in a time of discouragement, that's the last time to make a major decision. It's the last time to make a major decision. So many have shared with me that they're going through vicious temptations in the area of sex.

Men you'd never believe. I'm not talking about new recruits. They have it too. And I believe that it's not any one thing. It's the cross, it's the fullness of the Spirit, it's the Word, it's fellowship, it's discipline, it's taking care of your body.

It's not any one thing. People are always coming to me. I almost jump out of my shoes. They always want, what is one answer to spiritual life? Some people think the one answer is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

People who have that teaching. But you know sensible, sane people who have that teaching know that that is not the one answer. The man who wrote Discipline Life has that teaching. He believes in the baptism of the Holy Spirit experience.

You read the Discipline Life. I've got one in my briefcase. I took it with me. There is no one answer. Someone else says the Keswick Convention. Someone else believes in the Ian Thomas experience. Someone else says it's a watchman knee experience.

Normal Christian life. I've seen guys come out of the normal, reading the normal Christian life more, more, more cockeyed than reading mad comics. That's right. Because they think this is it. This is everything.

Watchman knee. Look, you read his biography. He had probably more problems than some of you. He made mistakes. He got on tangents. He admitted his two volumes on spiritual life that he wrote. It wasn't even a reality in his life.

He wrote it when he was young. He got 30 of that from Jesse Penn Lewis. The average person doesn't even know who Jesse Penn Lewis is. That's where watchman knee got 30 of his material. She's a woman.

Can you believe that? Boy, now you're going to turn away. And I just feel that we've got to get off the one answer trip and realize the whole counsel of God, all the means of grace. Someone else says it's worship.

Of course worship is a major thing. Someone else believes the whole answer is if you become a Calvinist. If you become a sold-out Calvinist,.

Read only Banner of Truth trust books, you get a great big view of God.

Look, you can have a great big view of God in your head and your heart can be smaller than a Russian penny. They don't even produce pennies. And I think we need this great view of God. We distribute some of these great Banner of Truth books.

I read Whitfield's biography cover to cover. That doesn't mean I think Wesley was all wet. There's no one answer. The whole Word of God is the secret to perseverance. And I have seen the one answer boys shot down quicker than almost anyone else because they get this way up here.

This is the answer. I've got the answer. And then when they collapse they don't know what happened. And then they can't rebound. They don't realize that God is just trying to teach them more. God's just trying to bring other things into their life.

We get people who even think OM is the answer. I get on OM. I'm going to get trained. Get in the IT program or do this. Go to India. Look, you can come back from India more defeated than you went out.

Isn't that some special Indian experience? You go out there and bounce in the back of the truck for two years until your teeth have got dents in them and you're going to come back, you know, filled with the Spirit.

You can come back defeated. Spiritual perseverance is linked with the whole counsel of God. It's linked with taking advantage of all the means of grace. We're constantly learning. We're constantly reading.

And we're constantly receiving exhortation from different people. It grieves me that sometimes certain groups get a blessing then they don't want to listen to anybody else. This happens to some people who are in a revival.

The Whole Counsel of God and the Danger of Spiritual Shortcuts

Revival can be the shortcut to spiritual death because no revival is meant to stop. It's supposed to keep going. And if it stops, it becomes a historical event.

Oh, we remember ten years ago when God came down upon us.

And, you know, ten years ago. What about today? And if revival puffs you up so you don't need to be taught by other people and you always know better than these other groups because you've been in the revival, you got the blessing, you're going to be in trouble.

And that's why people that have had high spiritual experiences have ended up living low lives, immorality, six wives, the works, perseverance. Some people thought OM was a shortcut to Christian service.

Fifteen years later, they discovered that OM is probably the longest route in the world today into missionary service because we believe it takes years and years to really prepare a man for what we would like to think of as apostolic missionary work when they can go out on their own and plant a church or something like that.

Fellowship, Accountability, and Sharing Struggles

It's going to take time. And that means plotting. That means keeping our eyes on the Lord Jesus. It means so much. Another thing that has helped me is to be in fellowship with like-minded people. I tell you, when you go back home, some of you tomorrow, whatever you do, find at least someone who's like-minded.

We are not called to live alone. If you plant yourself in the midst of a bunch of ice cubes, you will get chilly, I can assure you. You've got to find other people who are like-minded. It doesn't need to be many.

I think of how when I went to Maryville College, the first college I went to, God led me to Dale Roton. That was a major factor in my life. His brother exhorted me. This guy, you know, he had me every day.

And God gave me a Christian roommate. And still one of my closest friends today. Just with him this summer for a couple of days. And I just feel we don't make enough effort to make sure we've got some like-minded brethren.

And if we're weaker, then we need to find a stronger brother if at all possible. But we need fellowship. That's why I believe it's good for people to be on OM for a year or two in training and preparation, even to go back into the secular world where they can get a little more grounded before they face the frozen, chilly situations that so often exist today in the church.

We need fellowship. Praise God for fellowship. But it won't mean much if you're not willing to really share yourself. I think this is the area where leaders really cut themselves short. How it can happen, a leader in OM not learning to share.

I don't know how it happens. You say it hurts me to share. I will tell you it may hurt in the process, but it can be one of the greatest blessings in your life. What are you trying to hide? People get so stunned.

You know, in one of my meetings I share that I got this struggle with pornography and that last week a porno magazine knocked me for a loop for several minutes and I'm so ashamed of it I can hardly verbalize it.

And when I share something like that, people, you know, when they first hear it, hey, George Foreman, looking at a pornographic magazine. It's just like the United States' reaction to Jimmy Carter when to these playboy people, I personally believe it's a bit stupid to talk to those people.

I'm not going to let them interview me, that's for sure. But, you know, he confessed that once in a while he has a problem with lust. People start, I mean, the hypocrisy of the people who overreacted to that.

But such is life, I guess. We got to learn to share. It doesn't mean you have to stand up. I have to minister and I have to communicate and I use this as a tool of communication. I use it because I believe it's essential.

Perseverance in Sexual Temptation and Personal Holiness

But at least you should have one or two, some people you're sharing with. People with homosexual problems. They're all over the place. Every time I take meetings, they come to me. And they're in the church.

They don't want to share. Or they go to the extreme, then they announce it with a big broadcasting and go join a church. They got a church in Toronto. I was just in Toronto. An Anglican church, all homosexuals, all gays, they marry each other.

Everybody's... It's all part of the big worldwide Anglican family. You won't be offended, you Anglicans, if you know, I'm not too impressed with the general worldwide Anglican set-up, but I do believe there are some really good local Anglican churches.

I hope you're a member of one of them. But this thing with homosexuals is really something. But those people who have that problem, there's terrific hope for them. I said that to a pastor's wife, or a pastor the other day.

She said, what? Hope for a homosexual? We've never heard of anybody getting anywhere. As I talked to him, I found out he hadn't tried very hard. Of course, there's hope for anybody. I don't feel that I'm any better than somebody with a homosexual problem.

I get away from God. I mean, who knows what could happen? Sin is sin. So my sin is a little more, you know, a little more acceptable in contemporary society. You know, my thing is women. Sin. If I go committing immorality, it's sin before God.