Support Groups Have no Place in Church

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Opening Banter and Show Introduction

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, ministry. My name's Casey Kasem, and I'm here with Wolfman Jack in the studio. Hey! Welcome to American Top 40. What would you get if you put, you got a cross between Jonathan Gershner and the Wolfman Jack?

Arr! I'm gonna pirate. He just sounded like a pirate. Well, this isn't comedy day, but it is the day when we have Steve Cooley in the studio, and we are No Compromise Radio ministry. Write us at info at nocompromiseradio .com.

Our theme is always biblical, always provocative, always in that order. And so we're glad to get your emails. Oh, a short while ago, some folks have put us on wretched radio ads, and so we're getting lots of wretched radio people who are emailing us, and I think that's pretty wretched, man.

Yeah, not wretched people, but wretched listeners.

Yes, well, I guess they are wretched if you look at Romans chapter seven. Oh, wretched man that I am. Is that where Friel got his title? Many things I do know, this do not know. It's gotta be, because I don't think wretched is found anywhere else in the New Testament.

Do you? No, probably not. They could use a King James version of James chapter one. We are superfluityofnaughtinessradio. You know what? I think the URL is not taken. Superfluityofnaughtiness .com. Superfluityofnaughtinessradio .com.

Nice. Today, we are changing directions. We have been enlightened. We have experienced some things, and we now are going to be all things to all people, so whatever you'd like us to talk about today, we're here for you, because we are here today to celebrate recovery.

Celebrate, good. Who was that? Was that Cool in the Gang? Yeah, that was Cool in the Gang, yeah. Cool in the Gang. Do you remember Parliament with the P-Funk?

Yeah, I won't sing any of their songs, though.

Okay, all right, good, and so, oh, I just talked to somebody else the other day, Mike Navar down in Virginia, and he told me about the time when he met MC Hammer, and he was asking, are you really, you know, a Christian, and MC's, I'm a blood bot, double anointing, you know, such and such.

And then he danced to prove it, so.

The Sufficiency of Scripture for Counseling

We today want to talk about support groups in Christian churches. Steve is dancing right now. You can't see this. Here come the Hammer. If we really, you know, were cool, and we were kind of ESPN radio and that kind of stuff, we'd have, you know, MSNBC, was that what it was called?

MSNBC? Yeah, but do we really want a camera in here? I don't think I want a camera.

I don't, no. We've got a camera now that records our sermons on bbcchurch .org, and you can see what we look like, and I think the proverb that you're 10 pounds overweight on camera actually is true now.

I'm not really looking forward to seeing myself on video, I have to be honest.

Oh, it's quite painful, so my question today is, support groups in the local church, Divorce Care, Celebrate Recovery, 12 Steps, AA, most churches, would it be fair to say, Steve, that when you go to most churches today, and you sit in the worship service and pick up the bulletin to get a little preview of what worship will entail and contain, you will find some kind of recovery group, won't you?

Sure, and if they don't, it's just probably a matter of asking the pastor who will refer you to the local AA, or NA, or whatever meeting.

Probably won't refer you to the NRA, but he will refer you to some place, and here's the I'm a gun owner and I'm recovering. Yes, and what does that teach us? Now, we believe that Romans chapter 15 is true, that we are competent, as Jay Adams' book so eloquently states, competent to counsel.

We can give people biblical counsel, and if someone comes to you and you're in the middle of, let's say, Massachusetts, in a small town of about, let's say, 6 ,000, and you are kind of a church out in the middle of nowhere, let's say, West Boylston, do you, are you able to give people hope and counsel from the scriptures as the Spirit of God uses them?

And we believe the answer is, you are sufficient to give, you have sufficiency in Christ and in the gospel and in the word to give counsel. Why would I send them off to some shrink? But aren't there issues that the Bible.

Just doesn't address? I mean, you know, I mean, how do you deal with, say, I don't know, sexual addiction? You can't really expect somebody to just look to the Bible and then get out of it.

Well, you've hit a nerve, and here's the nerve. People use this as an excuse all the time, and maybe if you're listening today, you've used it as well. Well, I've got a blood sugar problem, and so therefore I go to the physician, the MD.

I have a sin problem, I need to talk about forgiveness, I'll go to the pastor, but I have a mental problem, an emotional problem, a soul problem,.

So therefore I go to the psychologist.

That's exactly right, and so we've got a problem with that because we believe that the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, we believe here at No Compromise Radio that sin affects that, and then we don't worship Him with our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

We don't act like Jesus Christ, who perfectly loved the Father, and when we've got a sin problem, we don't need to go to the shrink. We don't need to go to the psychologist. We don't need to have psychological principles found in the church through Celebrate Recovery and recovery groups, and so we want to encourage you today.

We're not here to bash you and tell you that you're bad for having a divorce care group in your church. I thought Steve was gonna say, but you're bad. What we're here to say is be confident in the scriptures.

Read Psalm 119, read Psalm 19. Look at how Jesus dealt with the scriptures, and you're going to see that the Bible is authoritative and sufficient. That's what we're after, so why go for gruel when you can have tenderloin?

Well, can I read the therapist's version of 2 Peter 1, verse 3? His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who has called us to His own glory and excellence, except if I have a psychological problem.

No, it doesn't say that, and the reason it doesn't say that is because He's granted us all things pertaining to life and knowledge through the knowledge of Him who has called us. Well, how do you get that knowledge?

Through the word of God, even as you were saying, Psalm 19, Psalm 119. If the Bible is perfect, if the Bible is inspired, if the Bible is sufficient for everything that we need, then why would we have to go to really some kind of, I'll use a fancy-schmancy word here, neo-gnostic kind of insider scoop knowledge group that is somehow going to help me where the Bible can't?

Right, and you know what people do, Steve?

I hear it all the time. Yes, but I go to a Christian psychologist, and so Christian psychologists, some are probably Christians, but they're smart, and so they know Christians like to go to Christian psychologists, just like some of you like to go to Christian mechanics, and Christian bakers and stuff like that.

So what happens is they may even pray. Most probably won't pray, but they may pray before or after. They may throw out a verse, but they call themselves Christian, and they would never, if an unbeliever went in and listened to the same spiel, they'd never be offended because it's not technically Christian.

And so you're not getting Christian counsel. And so how about this, Steve? If you're in a church that's, I mean, all right, let's back up. When I go to a church, and I try to pick a church for the family to worship in and at during vacation, family trips, out, you know, we'd go in some place, if I know they have a celebrate recovery, divorce care, porn care, sex care, blah, blah, blah, you know what, I don't go to those churches because the pastors in those churches, by their actions, deny the sufficiency of Holy Scripture.

Well, I think sometimes, you know, it might just be a shortcut, an easy way out. Pastor doesn't want to deal with those issues. So, you know, you just have a recovery group for it. I don't really know what to do.

Therefore, I'll just have this group handle the problem. And that frees up my time.

Why 12-Step Groups Undermine Repentance and Sanctification

Well, you are so right. People have real problems and real issues. And some of the things we've heard in this very room from people as they pour their souls out because of the effect of the fall and their own sin, it is very, very difficult to try to counsel people, to try to give them hope.

And that's what we want to do is give them hope in the Scriptures. But I am not going to, let's just go to No Compromise style for a minute. Nocompromiseradio .com. Let's just tell like it is. People write and say, we like your blunt, straight up truth.

So here comes the blunt, straight up truth. If you have a problem with a certain particular sin that you're ensnared to, enslaved to, I don't want you to sit in a church building with eight other people with the exact same problem because you're going nowhere.

So some kind of sex addict group, and now you've got 10 people who all struggle with the same thing. Oh, there's 15 guys who struggle with porn at the church. Let's all get together and hold one another accountable.

That is ludicrous, stupid, idiotic. And lastly, it doesn't work. What does the body of Christ do? The body of Christ is like a man and a woman who are married or like a plurality of elders. They cover, we cover each other's weaknesses with our strengths and vice versa.

So get me somebody who struggles with something else to be with a bunch of other guys with the porn problem or divorce problem or something else. They don't need to all sit around and talk about that one unifying theme because porn becomes a unifying theme, not Christ Jesus.

Yeah, I mean, there are many analogies we could use, but I mean, if you were gonna say, hey, let's have a basketball team and we'll all be point guards, won't that be great? No, and just as you're saying that with the body of Christ, what you want is a stronger brother in a particular area, one who knows how to love his wife like Christ loves the church.

You want him to then disciple that man who is struggling in his sin and, you know, or one with even just strong theology and an understanding of what it means to be committed to Christ and to leave fornication and adultery behind.

That's the man you want to train you and hold you accountable, not a man who is struggling with the same sin you are. That's exactly right.

And you look at Titus chapter two, you look at second Timothy chapter two and discipleship, whether it's for men or for women, we want godly people to disciple us. And if we all sit around and say, we all struggle with the same problem, that is not helpful.

It further splinters the church. And so right now, churches as it is, they'll have singles, marrieds, you have young, you have old, and it just fractures apart. Now, I understand that couples with, you know, little kids like to hang out with other couples with little kids.

There's nothing wrong with that so the kids can play. But now I'm going to further fragment the church by saying, this is the group for all the divorced people, they hang out over there. This is the group with all the sex addicts, they hang out over there.

That is not the right way to build a healthy body. And so if you're listening today and you go to a church with discovery, celebrate recovery, divorce care, what are you thinking?

And can I just tell you, I think maybe the most destructive thing about these 12-step groups, I mean, it's been years and years, I don't know how long, 18, 19, 20 years since I was in one, but you know, when you sit there and you say that you are, you know, hi, my name's Steve and I'm a such and such, and I am helpless over my problem, then what I am really saying is that my sin is such that the Holy Spirit cannot overcome it.

That nobody ever says perfect yourself, you know, no one ever says that, you know, you just have to kind of he-man your way through it. It is, sanctification is synergistic. You work and the Holy Spirit works in you, but you don't just kind of, the 12-step group tells you, well, you know, you're just helpless, you just have to turn it over to your higher power.

Short version, let go and let God. Don't worry about it. It's an illness, it's something you can't control.

And if we were Michael Horton and Kim Riddlebogger at the White Horse Inn, we would blast that pietistic notion where that sanctification, and you have to always say, when you say let go and let God, you have to pronounce God with a G-A-W-D, let go and let God, that's how they say it.

I pulled up, Steve, Celebrate Recovery, a message by Pastor Rick. Now, when you hear Pastor Rick, you know, there are some celebrities in the world, they're just known by one name, you know, Cher. Is she a pastor now?

Probably. That's why this microphone has a spit deal here, because that was a spit-able moment right there. Cher, Bono, Madonna.

By the way, if she was a pastor, would she get up and Cher, so Cher would be sharing? Nevermind. Sharing time from Cher.

I'm trying to think of the Cher and Sonny and Cher song. What was the famous Sonny and Cher song? I Got You, Babe? Yeah, that's right. I like UB40's redo of that better, but, you know, it's Chrissy Hynde, but I'm a product of my culture.

Pastor Rick, here we know who Pastor Rick is, and that would be Pastor Rick Warren. And so listen to what he says in the Celebrate Recovery section, and he is now the influencer of most churches for this kind of care group.

Long gone, I think, are the Bill Smith AA influences, although maybe there's a few older mainline liberal, you know, Lutheran Methodist churches, but here, Pastor Rick's Celebrate Recovery on the website celebraterecovery .com.

Because of sin, we've all hurt ourselves. We've all hurt other people, and others have hurt us. That means each of us needs real repentance. Now, think about that. Sin does hurt other people. Sin does hurt ourselves.

It's not good for us. But sin is against, primarily, Psalm 51, verse four, against thee. Against thee, and thee only, have I sinned. And thee only have I sinned, and done evil in your sight. And so when you, then, next paragraph, Steve, talk about wounds left untended fester, then you talk in the next paragraph about hurts, habits, and hang-ups, and then you talk about Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount began by stating eight ways to be happy.

You are in a world of proverbial hurt. I've got a real hang-up with that. You're gonna send, if this program were, if this program was a wide receiver, you would be sending Randy Moss to the Titans. I'd be sending him to rehab, but that's neither here nor there.

Yeah. We're gonna sing the rehab song, is what I was thinking about. So here's the thing. By the way, if you wanna know how Celebrate Recovery came about, it was a 10-week series of messages called The Road to Recovery that Rick Warren preached.

How about The Road to Repentance? Wouldn't that be a better? You know, all this thrice-holy God business, the seraphim who are holy and sinless still cover their eyes because of the transcendent majesty of the awful God, and they blush because they still realize that they're a created being, and Jesus Christ, the one sitting on the throne according to John chapter 12, is there worthy of honor and worship, Jesus, the eternal Yahweh, that is the one we send against.

And of course we can ask for, you know, I was gonna say recovery, for forgiveness from other people, but it's against God.

This isn't really very far. A few weeks ago, we were talking about Reverend Bob, as he's known in my home, Schuller, and this really isn't It just seemed like it was only like an hour ago. Yeah, or something.

But I mean, this really is, it's less than 12 steps away from that. I mean, it's, no pun intended, it's very close in terms of, you know, the focus on self-image and what I've done to myself and woe is me, just wrong and completely unbiblical.

The Bible never does this sort of thing.

Well, why don't we just sit in the prayer room today and then we'll confess our sins and we'll say, you know, my allergy is, I don't really love my wife like Christ loved the church. That's what Bill Wilson called it, the originator of 12 steps, you know, AA.

I did like his experience though, because he is very experiential. Suddenly my room blazed with an indescribable white light. I was seized with an ecstasy beyond description. Every joy I had known was pale by comparison.

The light, the ecstasy, I was conscious of nothing else for a time.

Well, obviously. Then that was a theophany, a Christophany, or does he describe it? Does he ever talk about Jesus?

Well, that's one of the problems. And so what people will say though, Steve, they'll say, yes, but we Christianize AA. We Christianize 12 step. And so we bring it into the church and that's what we talk about.

And so what I would say to you is that if that's what you do then why keep the methodology of humanistic man-centered psychology and say, then we're going to use the Bible. Why don't you just use a biblical method for the Bible?

I mean, how great is Psalm 19? It talks about the word of the Lord. It is perfect restoring the soul. The testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple. And it talks about enlightening the eyes and it's true altogether.

You want to know everything you need. It's found in the scriptures.

But you don't understand the nature of my problem. You know, I've tried the Bible. It just doesn't work. I need something that works.

Isn't it true that some people will say, well, you haven't gone through what I've gone through. So I need to go to somebody else who's also had an allergy with alcohol. They understand me. Well, I've never committed murder with my hands.

I've committed it in my heart and in my mind, but I think I can give counsel to murderers. And that's exactly Romans 15. That's exactly 1 Corinthians where we're able to help people. And so here's my other question, Steve, and you know this from preaching a sermon here recently.

Support groups tolerate sin. They affirm, we know you're weak. We know you've been in AA groups and it's not that big a deal. Churches ought not to tolerate sin. 1 Corinthians 5, sexual sin is going on.

It's unrepentant. And this person doesn't need to be shipped off to some Charlie Sheen sex addict place. This needs to be taken care of. Oh, you know, Charlie Sheen,.

We were just talking about this earlier. His lawyer actually said when he was sent to the hospital for some kind of drug or alcohol overdose that he had an allergic reaction. Just like, hey, you know what?

If you put enough poison in your body, you will have an allergic quote-unquote reaction. But yeah, why would you, it is unbiblical. I'm not even gonna say it's extra biblical. It's not something that can be kind of transferred to the Bible or in any way associated with the Bible.

The idea of sending someone who has a sin problem to some kind of rehab center, to some kind of 12-step group, through some kind of therapeutic process is never what the Bible, Jesus, I mean, think of it.

If you read all through the gospels, and I would encourage that, you will never see Jesus do anything other than repent or say repent, and he'll talk about belief and faith. You will never hear him talk about syndromes, ongoing problems, bad habits, whatever.

You know, he talks about sin, but he doesn't talk about all these things that these therapists do.

And Jesus has his apostolic messengers talk about sin and how to get over sin and to repent from sin and to think about other things in the context of the local church. And what do we do here, Steve? Part of it is, yes, confess it as sin and forsake it because Proverbs 28 says, then you'll obtain mercy.

But also get involved in the life of the church because show me somebody who's involved in pornography and calls it some addiction. I'll show you somebody who is lazy and selfish.

Well, and show me somebody, sorry. Show me somebody, we've had people call the church, you know, and say, well, you know, I've got this going on and I'm depressed and I can't work. And, you know, well, tell me about the nature of your problem.

Well, I'm clinical depression. I'm on medication. I can't do this and I can't do that. But I volunteer here and I volunteer there. And you just go, well, why don't you work? And it's the circular argument.

I'm depressed, therefore I'm medicated, therefore I can't work. And the answer to depression in particular quite often is just work. Absolutely. Get your mind busy, get your body worn out and you won't be depressed.

And work for the kingdom.

That's what we want people to do. You can find freedom of forgiveness through biblical methods and if you have sexually sinned or you've sinned with alcohol or any other way, you can have forgiveness.

And we wanna teach you about, can you imagine, free forgiveness, gracious forgiveness based on Christ's perfect life and death. And then we show you, get busy serving in other ways because the way you've been handling life right now is the wrong way.

And so we just don't say get over it, but we wanna show you a biblical method. Well, and think about the alternative.

What these therapists say, what this 12-step method would say to you is that you're helpless over it, that there is no way to escape it, that you're always gonna have this specter of whatever your alleged addiction is.

It's always lurking, ready to seize you back. There's no freedom in that.

There's no forgiveness in that. One drink away is a total lie and everybody's bought into it, including people in the church. I'm one drink away from doing this thing again. I will say this, I'm glad the Lord has used, I'm sure he's used wrong methods before like AA and 12-step and celebrate recovery because if somebody who has a drinking problem dries out as an unbeliever and then can think properly later and then get saved, great.

I think about my dad, puts himself in for a 30-day lockup and then he stops drinking and he realizes, I'm no longer under the influence mentally of alcohol. That was sure stupid. And so same thing for me, quit alcohol and drugs.

I can think properly and then think biblically, fine. But as soon as we can get you, as soon as you get saved, we wanna yank you out of those programs as fast as we can and put you in the church, Jesus's church.

And just for clarity's sake,.

I was in codependence anonymous, which I think really just meant it was psychological speech. For, he doesn't know what his problem is, but that boy's got problems.

In 1 Corinthians 5, this man has a sexual sin problem that is horrible and he needs to be excised since he's unrepentant. I did not see Paul sending him to sex addicts anonymous, sexaholics anonymous, sexual compulsives anonymous, sex and love addicts anonymous, or any other thing like that, which are all those are actually true places.

Well, and again, what's the sad truth of these 12-step groups? They talk about celebrate recovery and it's like, well, I've been sober for X number of days, months, whatever, as if sex outside of God's prescription for it is somehow a disease or an allergy or what have you.

This is sin. It's just an attempt to redefine sin and to make it something other than what it is and a front against a holy God.

A Biblical Alternative to Recovery Culture

Well, my name is Mike Ebendroth. I'm here with Steve Cooley. And today we're trying to get you to think biblically. And just because your church has discovery, divorce care, just because you watch Discovery Planet, the church, just because you're into that doesn't mean it's right.

So check it out, do some research, figure out,. A, is the Bible sufficient? B, is Jesus all you need? C, can your pastor, who's a godly pastor, preaches the Bible help you with any problem you have? And if you can answer those three questions,.

I don't think you're gonna be an AA anymore. It's a three-step recovery process from recovery programs.

Always biblical, always provocative, always celebrate recovery, always in that order.

Repent. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Ebendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.