Can Charismatic Gifts and Benny Hinn be Defended?

This is Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host, from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

Yes, we're live, and those who are watching our video, let me just bring Drew in right away. Drew, is something a little different? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. You're about to set sail on the high seas.

Yeah, well, you know, maybe what it is is Living Waters did a, I was out in Huntington Beach some time ago, and this is a couple years ago, Ray and I were evangelizing, and this guy dressed as a pirate jumped up, and so everybody was, they know me as the, what was, how did Ray word that video?

A bold preacher, you know, something, bold preacher, false teacher, I forget what it is. So maybe I was trying to look like the pirate in that video, but no, no, that's actually not it.

I mean, look, we even got Kofi jumping in. Arr, matey. There we go, yeah.

So yes, for those on the audio podcast, this is Andrew Rappaport. I'm the host of Apologetics Live, and I am wearing an eye patch for a reason. So I figured I'd get this out of the way right in the beginning.

I have double vision. It seems to be if I cover one of either of my eyes, it goes away. After last week's show, looking at the screen for two hours, being close, it gave me a splitting headache. And so I just figured I would look funny, but at least I won't feel bad, because I could not wait until the show ended last week, so.

You were out of there pretty quick. Yeah. You were out of there, but I have to ask you a question. What's a pirate's favorite letter?

Oh, that's such a bad, you know, that's not even worthy of answering. It's so bad, but I mean, Kofi already answered.

Oh, yeah. You'd think it'd be R, but it's the C. No, it's R.

You're wrong. You just don't want to admit defeat. I get it. All right, so. All right, so. Jody is saying, where was it? Good evening. The bad jokes are already starting.

We call them dad jokes.

Yeah, the really bad jokes are Drew's theology of post-millennialism. That's the really bad joke. When he gets to heaven and realizes he's wrong. See, Jason is, okay, folks, those in the chat, let's go for it.

If you're in the chat, please give us a C or an R if you think that is the right answer to that joke.

Yeah, Jason called me. He called me and left a message. Brother, I've just been super busy. I'll listen to your message.

You haven't even listened to his message. Wow, that's bad. Note to self, if I need to get a message to Drew, do it three weeks before. Okay. Oh, look at this. Brother John is just, he's a good politician.

He says C-R.

Yeah, he doesn't really make it in government.

Doesn't want to commit. Okay, so we have a pirate flag. Facebook user says it's I. You give instructions of an R or a C and people just have to go outside the bounds.

Look what D says though. Well, C kind of makes sense now that I think about it. Thank you.

Kind of makes sense, but not the answer to the joke that everyone knows. Okay, strange intro. We're going to get into today. We're going to be, we have James Park. He's going to join us. I actually would have to go back and figure out how he and I got connected.

It was on Facebook somewhere and he was defending Benny Hinn's ministry. And I said, Hey, would you want to come in to Apologetics Live and do that? He said, sure. And so we said, okay. So that's what we're going to end up doing today.

Um, so actually, you know, I just see KT is, is posted this and she says he's ARR actually. So it's, it goes quite well. So she's saying it's even my initials are fitting with the, the pirate patch there.

And he, okay. Total sidebar drew. Why do pirates wear a patch? I don't know. I need the cricket sounds right now. Okay. There is actually a reason for this. I learned this when I was in Jamaica where the pirates would go to and they would hide rum and gold and different things in the caves.

And I discovered this is actually true because what ended up happening was I was wearing the patch for a day and my one eye adjusted to the dark, because what happens if I try to close one eye all day, it, it becomes painful, um, by the end of the day.

So I had one eye, uh, covered in the patch. And when I took the patch off at night in the dark, one eye that was covered in the patch saw perfectly. And if I close that eye, I couldn't see anything. And so what they would do is they would take the patch and just move it to the other eye when they went in the cave and they could see, and then they moved back into the daylight and switched it back.

And so they could quickly get in and out of caves. So I, one of the things I learned about when I was in Jamaica, I know, uh, I know a lot about.

Pirate history, but I don't, I didn't, I never knew that one. Yeah. Yeah. It, it sounds logical.

Yeah. That's, that's what I was told when we were going through the caves in Jamaica. So, uh, we, you and I decided we'd come up with a game for audience today, audience, you, you guys are going to get to help us out, um, do some participation before James gets James is at backstage.

We're going to bring them in and I see Pedro and Eric backstage. We're going to bring them in at the top of the hour, uh, with any questions I have, you guys are that are backstage can, uh, give private chat as well.

So you guys are able to communicate with us. If, if Pedro, Eric, you guys have questions, feel free to let us know. Uh, but I, I saw this on, uh, social media this morning and thought this could be really fun, drew it.

I saw someone said, how did they manage to discover aliens, but not where, uh, but not even one of Epstein's clients. Okay. I was at a gathering last weekend and bunch of Christians and someone brought up the thing of aliens.

He said, what do you think about aliens? This is really popular in the, in the, in, in news right about now. And so people are talking about hearing on it. Yeah. And so what happened was as soon as, well, the one person asked me the question, one of the other guys goes, turns to his wife and says, see, everybody's talking about aliens.

And I said, why? Well, I think that the whole talk of aliens is, I believe is nothing more than a salacious way to get something in the news other than all of the corruption Joe Biden's doing. And so, I mean, you can't keep indicting Trump.

It's going to become obvious after four times that there's bad news for Biden and Trump gets a new indictment and the bad news for Biden is coming so fast and furious. They can't keep up with, it takes time to create the, you know, these indictments.

And I think they're running out of them. So let's talk aliens. So we're going to play a game. We're going to see how many other things couldn't be found other than just Epstein's clients and audience.

You're going to, you're going to get to, to jump in as well. Things that you think can't be discovered. Just, we can't seem to find the answers to, and we're going to give extra points if, and Drew and audience, we all have to be honest.

We can't steal someone else's. So you get extra points if someone comes up with something you didn't think of. All right. So those in the, in the chat are going to be able to chat away and, and give their answers.

I'm going to give my first two and then we'll go with Drew, your first two. My first, my, my first one immediately, I thought about this, they're, how is it they're able to manage to discover aliens, but they cannot even discover who brought the Coke in the white house.

That's at the top of my list. Okay. All right. My second one. And this is one, I think would it be, would it be on, on your list? Although if you saw what I posted on social media, you might, they, they, they're able to discover aliens, but they can't figure out who put the bomb,.

Planted the bombs on January 5th. That one was not on my bingo card.

That was not on your bingo card. So, okay. I'll get a point for that.

I really forgot about that, that there was a bomb there.

That's right. They, they had bombs on the fifth, which was really neat if you, cause the bombs that were planted at the RNC and the DNC in America, that's the two political parties here in America. And so there were bombs on January 6th that were discovered 20 minutes before Congress before the Senate met on January 6th.

And there was 20 minutes left on the timer. They were set to go off. You know, it was kind of interesting though. If you, if you actually found did any research into it, the timer they had was an egg timer.

You can only go for an hour. And this person planted it at like three in the morning, the night before, and then set the egg timer, but both timers just, they were discovered right at 20 minutes. I mean, they had, they had bomb sniffing dogs in the DNC when, when Kamala Harris walked through, but none of them picked up any bomb detection.

Okay. So those are my first, what do you got?

All right. My first one. Okay. How can they discover aliens, but they can't seem to find any evidence into the Biden crime family?

Well, that's a broad one. I mean, that kind of covers everything.

I know. Yeah. All right. Well, okay. Here's my, here's my second one. All right.

How can you see your third one? Because you, your, your first one, we had the same.

How can they discover aliens, but they can't seem to find the Clintons. I mean, Epstein's killer.

That was on mine. That was, that was my next one was they, they can't, they can't figure out who killed Epstein. So this one was his clients, right? Right. So, um, all right, let's see if we have anyone in the, in the chat that's given some.

Jody's got one. All right. What's that one?

It right here. It says, how could they figure out aliens? There are aliens, but can't figure out what a woman is.

Oh, that was that, that was on my list. Okay. That is it. Yeah. Well, I, okay. I, I, I did. Okay. We'll see if Jody had this on her list because I did it two ways. I said, they can't figure out what a woman is, but they also can't figure out what a man is.

So I did both. Hmm. Okay. What's, what's this next one that KT has, is this, uh, oh no, she's saying, I got, I got to see the video and guess what? Kamala's car went right by the spot at some point. Yeah.

I mean, the, the supposed bomb was right out in the open. Yeah. Okay. So John is showing up late and saying, is Andrew, is Andrew, uh, will be okay. No, I'm going to die one day, John. I don't hopefully not soon, but, uh, you know, and if, if the, if the Eric is that I think is, is backstage, he was like, when he found out I had double vision, he was like, get to the emergency room.

Cause it could be double vision could actually be quite serious. Uh, what they think the theory is right now that I have a fourth nerve palsy, which is a genetic disease. It's where the muscles, I guess, in my one eye is weaker.

And it probably has been all my life. Um, one eyes weaker than the other. So what ends up happening is for years, what would be as I would tilt my head to the left because the double vision goes away that way.

And the doctor said, if you go look at pictures, you'll probably see your head's always been tilted to the left. I'm like, yeah, I, I have been doing that in pictures. And so that's a sign that as a, as a young child, uh, I probably compensated by just tilting my head.

And at some point, one of my eyes just gave out either the weak one or the stronger one, it stopped overcompensating or just couldn't, you know, so, so that's, that's the cause of it. They think that I just have to like my father, where the special prism glasses, progressive glasses, and that should solve it.

But I'm still going to get a MRI and stress test. All that'll be done next week, I think Tuesday. So, and then maybe I'll get an answer. All right. Jody has another one up there. That's a good one. Uh, they can't find aliens.

They can find the aliens, but they can't find any of the BLM members to prosecute. Okay. I didn't have, I, I, I'm going to give her that one because I didn't have the two prosecute. Um, but I did have, they can find aliens, but they can't find any of the BLM money.

That's true too. So, so if I give Joe, so let's see, Drew, you'd be the judge. If we give it to.

Jody on the prosecute, can I get the extra point for that? Yeah, because, because they're two separate things, right? You got one that's the riots where government property was destroyed. Cities were destroyed.

Lives were lost. But then you also have the money that people donated that.

Was basically stolen from them. Yeah. Yeah. We, we don't, we don't know where it went. I mean, it's somehow went to a line, the pockets of the founders and they didn't report it on taxes either. I wonder why they didn't do that.

Huh? Anyway. Uh, so that's, that was my full list.

Do you have any others on your list? Oh, that's, that's, that's your whole list. That was my whole list. Oh, I've, I've got more. Okay. So they can find aliens, but they, they can't find, uh, figure out that the money we're giving to Ukraine is just money laundering.

Ah, that's a good one. All right. They can, they can find aliens, but they can't discover crimes in cities. Walking through stores, stealing stuff. Well, yeah. Red cities.

Oh, Oh, look at D come on. I don't know if we could do this one, but.

D they can find aliens. Huh? I thought about it, but I didn't put it. Yeah. They can find.

Aliens, but they can't find Biden's brain. Actually the, the issue there. And, and so that I don't, I don't, I don't think it's good. I think we did an episode on whether we should mock those in government that way.

But, um, he, it's actually just a crime that I would say that it's, it's elder abuse, what they're doing to him. Yeah. Oh yeah. I would agree. Yeah. Uh, Jody says they can find aliens, but they can't find out how, uh, how much Newsome broke the.

Constitution similar to that. Okay. So they can find aliens, but our government can't figure out.

That they're violating the constitution and the bill of rights. Oh, okay. Good. Good. Okay. Well,.

One more, they can find aliens, but they can't find out who leaked the Dobbs decision.

That, ah, why did I forget that one? There's only a handful of people, 40, 40 possible people. Yeah. That's right. Where the, where the other, you know, the, the Coke in the white house, I think there's like, I think close to maybe like somewhere between 120 to 200 people that possibly could have broken, because you gotta remember the entrance that it was found originally, remember it was founded an entrance.

And then they said, oh, it moved, it suddenly moved to the library, but then they realized the library had even fewer people that were in there. So then suddenly moved downstairs to where all the workers are, you know, but where it was originally supposedly found, um, they, uh, they had, um, you know, it's, it's where you have to have secret.

Service detail to get a West wing. It was found in the West. Yeah. So you figure how many.

People were there on the weekends. Okay. So, um, Mason says they, they can find aliens, but they can't find the inerrant truth of God's word that helped found this country. So I had a couple others I thought of putting on the list.

Um, they can find aliens. I didn't put this on the list, so these don't count, but they can find aliens, but Andy Stanley can't find the old Testament. Um, I had a, and then once I started thinking that way, I was like, we would.

Be here all night doing this because you'll. Biden's a doctor of, yeah. All right. So let's,.

Let's see if, if Jay, so I'm going to, let's bring James Park in. Um, James is so James, it is really dark in your car. So James is in his car folks, because he has a newborn at home. And therefore any of us who have had newborns, we know what that's like.

You never know. It's really going to be hard to do a podcast with a baby. That's could be screaming.

Yeah. That's the best place I have. No, I mean, just so you know, you, I don't want you to feel.

Bad, but when COVID first started and I, I ended up, uh, doing a recording on a podcast with Ray comfort, he was doing all of his podcasting from his car because he realized he, he, that was where he, in his house for in like, go, he went through Mark's Mark Spence.

Yeah. Yeah. It got the car. Yeah. They would get the best acoustics in the car. Yes. I told Ray,.

In his chicken coop, I am a living waters, biggest fan, by the way, because I always get the million dollar bills boxes. This is so easy to evangelize. You just throw money on the ground. It's not littering.

Well, you shouldn't litter, but they pick it up. Yeah. Well, the,.

The, the, um, I had gotten when I was out there, I don't know. I, I don't know how many packs of bill tracks come in the hundreds. And if folks, if you want, if you want, you can go to living waters .com and see, you know, under the tracks and see what we're talking about.

But, uh, I stacked them in this box, which I was like, TSA is definitely opening this box. Yeah. I just, that would have equivalated to, you know, like I forget how much I figured. I tried to figure out if there were a hundred dollar bills, how much I had.

I think I had like, um, would it, would it have been a million dollars worth or something? But I just, I had a bunch.

In there and they were probably like, someone's trying to transport money. Yeah. So pick them up.

Cause it looks like real money. Yeah. So, so James, I don't, I don't even remember the conversation.

We had. What started this? I don't know if you do. I started out, you know, when I was first.

Again, just our discussion, our discussion, what started the discussion that we had?

Yeah. I mean, I basically, I believe everything that Benny him believes. I agree with him on.

Most of the stuff. Yeah. Okay. Well, what I was trying to get to is I don't, are just you and me, our discussion on social media. I didn't remember how that started.

I just, well, I'm a, I have a friend who's a friend of yours on my friends list. Ah, okay. He invited me to debate with you. Yeah. And I, it was, it was based off some comment on,.

On, on a post. I just didn't remember which one. Sorry. So for folks who, who don't, don't know who you are, why don't you give a little bit about your background? You already said you believe.

You agree with everything. Um, that almost everything, almost everything. I grew up, I became a Christian about eight years ago. And I'm just going to, I'm going to take the.

Banner off. So people can, some people were asking for your name and your name's Mark.

Yes. So, so there folks, you have that. And I grew up where like, you know, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, they were the prosperity gospel. They just wanted your money. That's how I grew up, but I, you know, I got the gifts of the spirit and I always had them when I was, from when I was first born again.

And, uh, by the way, Ray Comfort, sometimes he does deliver its prayers every now and then, if you watch his videos, just a side note,.

Every now and then he doesn't, but, um, he doesn't. Yeah. I, I, I know Ray personally,.

And I can tell you, he does not believe in that. He prayed against a woman's demons one time. Very rare, of course, but, and he believes that some people are possessed by demons,.

Like the wizard from New Zealand. Yeah. I believe people are possessed by demons. I have a friend of mine who believes that, uh, you know, Kenneth Copeland is possessed by a demon. And I kind of.

Believe that. Well, as I, um, just got to know, like Kenneth Copeland and, uh, the Benny Hinn got, got to know them more. I realized that I believe the exact same things as they do. You know them personally or?

No, no, just knowing I'm from like social media, I realized I believe the exact same things they do and I'm going to defend them from now on. I don't care who says it.

Okay. So, so tell us a little bit about yourself first, how, how, you know, uh, you started explaining how you came to know Christ. So start, start there. Yes. So, um,.

Concisely, if that is. I got out, I got out of the Marines and I was, I was desperate for work, end up getting a job on a farm. The farmer was a outspoken Christian. He'd always played gospel music. He'd take me to church to feed the homeless.

He was always preaching Bible truth. And I, even though I always thought I was a Christian, just being in his presence made me realize that I was not a Christian. And, um, so just like admitting that I'm not a Christian in my heart, then that's when I actually became born again and God changed my life.

Yeah. I believe there's a baptism of repentance and also baptism of the Holy spirit, all spiritual. I don't believe you have to have water baptism or anything like that. And, um, yes, I just been, I've been evangelizing ever since I've been, uh, always the gifts of the Holy spirit, like deliverance and all of that always had them, but I was with cessationist for my first five years until I moved to Miami.

And then, um, so once I got away from those church, those churches, I, uh, began to practice the gifts more. So that's where I'm at right now. Okay. So I want to, I want to go back.

To sound just to make sure I heard right. You said you started to believe in these because you experienced the gifts. Is that, is that right? Uh, yeah, but I have a lot of Bible verses to back it up though.

Okay. But, but what, what's so that was, yeah, that was my experience. That's your experience. So then you're trusting your, your, your trust is your experience. Is it.

Not? No, I, uh, if I, if there was no verses in the Bible backing me up, I would just say I'm schizophrenic and I need to just forget about that and just put the Bible first. So which, which gifts is it that you say you experienced?

Um, so like healing, um, casting out demons. Okay. And speaking in tongues, I never did speak in tongues till I moved to Miami. Not that you speak. I believe there's two different types of tongues. There's that tongues and Pentecostal is actual languages, earthly languages, and then the heavenly language.

Do you know any passage in the language? Yeah. Yeah. I got a few. Um, so you have, uh, first Corinthians 14, 14 in unknown tongue.

Okay. That's not heavenly. That's unknown. That means,.

And it's, uh, it's a, it's a tongue that you're, that you don't know that you end up speaking.

And I know, and it's not that verse, uh, cause I don't think, uh, first Corinthians 14, 14 says, if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So we'd have to see what,.

What translation are you using? Uh, I think that one, I'm not sure actually. I wonder if that's a translation issue. Yeah. There's also a Romans 8, 26, the, uh, spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings, which cannot be uttered.

So to me, that's what it's like. It's like a groaning. Hold on. So if it's, if it's a groaning.

That can't be uttered, you, you wouldn't be able to utter them. Correct. Well,.

Cannot be interpreted by a human, the human mind only by the spirit. But that's not what that.

Passive says, right? That was what Romans what? 8, 8, 20, 8, 26. Yeah. Um, in the same way, the spirit also helps our weakness for, we do not know how to pray as we should, but the spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

That doesn't seem to indicate the same thing that again, maybe a translation issue. Um, but it's, it, this is saying a groaning too deep for words. Now I can flip through some other translations that was new American standard,.

But there's also a acts two forward. It says he began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance. So the spirit gave them this tongue.

And, but, but further down in the context, we know exactly which tongues they were. Verse eight starts saying, and how is it that each of them hear them in their own language to which we were.

Born? Parthians and meads and, uh, laminates. Yeah. Those are the earthly tongues. Yes. I agree.

I agree. There's no other mention. There's no mention of anything other than the earthly.

Tongues. But that's another gift too. Sometimes I hear that this never happened to me personally, but I heard of people never spoke Spanish. They began speaking Spanish because a Spanish, I'm believer was curious about the gospel.

And then we hear about those. They're just never.

Documented. So, so late, you know, um,. Oh, and I just drew his, just drew a blank on his name. I think it's John Hornham, I think is the name. Shoot. I forget. But, uh, late 18, uh, late 1800s, he was the first with, uh, when to, to popularize the gift of tongues.

And he had a follower, uh, several followers who believe they had the gift of languages. Charles, Charles, that's it. Charles Parham. Um, and so, uh, and he had one of his, his students who, Agnes Osmond.

Yep. Agnes Osmond had supposedly the gift of speaking Chinese. And so she got on a boat, went over to China so that she could do missions work, uh, got there realized nobody knew what she was saying. She was writing things.

Cause she said she had the gift of writing Chinese, but nobody, uh, could read anything she did. In fact, uh, uh, she has a, a hand written copy of what she had, uh, what she said was Chinese and people were buying her story.

Uh, but I actually received that handwritten, uh, a picture of that handwriting. Uh, we gave it to my bride who actually was born writing and speaking Chinese. And she took one look at that and said, that's chicken scratch.

So she came back and said, she is, was actually speaking in angelic language. So it's, it's kind of interesting that once she changed her story.

Yeah. Correct. So, so, so far you haven't given a single passage that.

Actually argues for a non-human language. Okay. You've written more, two more verses.

Really quick. Okay. Okay. So first Corinthians 14, two, two verses before that, for he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but the God for no one understands him. However, in the spirit, he speaks mysteries.

Now also remember Daniel was the only one who could interpret the writing on.

The wall. Okay. So was, was Daniel interpreting a human language? I don't think so. I think,.

I mean, I don't know. I think it was a angelic language. Yeah. If you think about Daniel and all.

Of Daniel's interpretation, Daniel interpreted dreams too. It didn't mean that they couldn't under, you know, Nebuchadnezzar couldn't understand what was going on in his dream, but he needed it interpreted for him.

Right. And so it's not that someone can't see what's on the wall and, and read what's on the wall. It's that they just can't understand what it means. So, so those two aren't exactly linked. Okay. So let's, let's go back to verse.

Corinthians 14, two because we need to address that one. So let's look at the context. Is that a fair thing to do, James? Yes. Yes, please. Verse one, pursue love yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy for one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God for no one understands, but it, but in his spirit, he speaks mysteries, but one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolidation.

So, so let me ask a question. Is Paul saying we shouldn't speak to God? We should speak to men and not God? No. Well, if, if we're going to take this literally the way you did,.

Then that's what that's saying. Well, so I believe that Paul, he was saying that we, we speak, we're speaking, we should not speak in tongues to men, but to God, he's meaning the spiritual warfare. Okay.

So let, let's, you're, you're,.

So what you're doing, James, is you're, you're reading things in. I'm, all I'm doing is reading, right? And looking at context. So let me ask the question this way. Is he, is he trying to contrast two things, prophecy and languages?

Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's saying, he's, he's saying pursue love. The, the, the real thing is he's saying love is the more important than all of them.

Right? Yes. He's saying pursue love, which comes out of chapter 13, just before it actually starts.

In verse chapter 12, it's 12, 13, 14. And once, and I'll say this for folks who are listening, if you go to strivingfraternity .org on our site, I do have a paper called, I think it's called understanding biblical tongues.

But if you search for first Corinthians 12 to 14, it basically looks at those three chapters, 12, 13, 14 in context, and just gives a high level overview. And I would argue that much of what Paul is condemning in those three chapters is the charismatic movement we see today, because it's nothing, nothing new under the sun.

The same things that we saw in late 1800s, you had a bunch of people feeling they're more spiritual. They're saying they speak a language because someone else is speaking a language. So you have this spiritual pride.

And then all of a sudden someone's being, just speaking gibberish. Well, can I give my take on it?

Sure. So I believe he is saying, don't speak tongues as a sermon or in the church. And, but it's for spiritual warfare. So meaning that like when you're speaking mysteries to God, only you and God can know, and the angels, and then the devil won't even know.

I hit him.

Where, where do you see spiritual warfare sermons in here?

Well, it's not, not for sermons at all, but it's for spiritual warfare.

Where do you see that in here at all?

When he says it's not, not to speak to men, but to God. So when we pray to God, most people, or a lot of people, when they pray to God, they're asking to battle spiritual warfare.

Okay. So you're saying, I want to make sure I understand this. You're saying that the speaking to God is the spiritual warfare?

Sometimes. Yeah. I can't say all the time, but sometimes, yes.

So we're at war with God? Like when we're praying, that's at war with God?

No. Asking the Holy Spirit to do battle for us.

Okay. So now there's nowhere in here that says that this is about asking the Holy Spirit to do battle for us, correct?

No. Not in this specific verse, no.

Okay. So you're, you're, you're, but that's your interpretation of that. Could that be influenced by your experience?

Well, I do have the experience. I, when, even when other people, when I'm doing deliverance, other people's speaking tongues, I can interpret that tongue in the spirit. And then it's a specific message for their life, completely specific to them.

There's no way I would have known the things that are said. And so it, part of it is experience. I put the Bible first, then experience, then history as well, all together. I.

Recognize all three of those. Okay. James, I heard you say a minute ago, when you speak in tongues and you're, you're speaking to God, you're speaking to God and the angels and the devil doesn't understand what you're saying.

Is that kind of your take on that? That when you speak in tongues, the devil can't understand you, only God and the angels because it's an angelic language. Is that, is that what I'm trying to understand?

Well, the language changes on God's side. The language changes. So the demons, they try to learn it, but they never learn it.

Are those demons and the devil, are they, are they angels? They're fallen angels. Yes. Okay. So they, they, they speak angel.

But after they were cast out of heaven, they, they no longer have God's spirit.