In Christ in the Heavenlies — Zac Poonen

A Burden for the Spiritual Condition of Christians

For the more than 30 years or 35 years, my burden has been primarily for Christians. When I left the Navy 46 years ago to serve the Lord, I spent nine years, first nine years traveling all across India, north to south, east to west, to see what the state of Christianity was in our country.

I wanted to assess the situation before I sought the Lord as to what he wanted me to do. You know, in our country, we have only a little over 1 of the population is Protestant Christian. So, a lot of people are burdened that, you know, how sad it is that after so many years, with a lot of evangelism and counting the number of Christian organizations that are supposed to be doing evangelism, the percentage of Christians is pretty much the same in the last 50 -60 years.

So, when I looked around and I saw the quality of the Christians, I said, well, thank God there's only 1 because it's such a pathetically low standard that the name of the Lord was being dishonored by the way people lived.

That's not just true in India, it's true everywhere. The name of Jesus is dishonored not by non-Christians, but by Christians and the way they live. And I saw that Jesus taught us to pray, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

That's supposed to be the number one request in the heart, prayer should come from the heart of any wholehearted disciple of Jesus. All the time, my primary burden in prayer must be, hallowed be thy name.

Let your name be honored, respected and hallowed. And everything else really should be secondary. And if that is really the first request in your heart, then you should pray and be concerned to know whether the name of Jesus is being honored by the way Christians live in your own town or locality.

And if it isn't, you'll have a burden that it should be hallowed. That's how I felt. I felt my primary burden was for India and still is. And I felt that the name of Jesus should be hallowed. So, I said, well, I can't do a great deal for the whole country.

We've got a population of 1 ,200 million people and that grows at the rate of one child every second. So, before this meeting is over, there'll be 7 ,200 more children in India. So, it's a massive need and I don't know when we'll ever be able to reach everybody with the gospel.

But I said, Lord, there's something else I can do. Maybe in a very, very small way, in one little corner wherever I live, I can try to be a pure testimony for you, myself and the way I live. And when I say pure testimony, I don't mean just in the way that other people see me, though that's very important.

Because a lot of people have a good testimony on the outside. There are a lot of Hindus, non-Christians in India who are very upright people on the outside, very honest, decent. They don't divorce at all their wives.

So, what can Christians who divorce their wives in Western countries teach the Hindus in our country? I'll tell you, nothing. So, it's, it was not just an external testimony that I was thinking of. But I wonder whether we realize there's a testimony in the heavenlies.

Job’s Testimony Before God and Satan

The very first book of the Bible that was written was the book of Job, written at least 500 years before Genesis was written by Moses. It's the first book of the Bible. It's the only book out of the 66 books which has no connection with Abraham, Isaac or Jacob.

And in the very first book that God decided to write for mankind, the first thing he speaks about is that in the heavenlies, God and Satan are dealing with people on earth. And God wants somebody he can boast about on the earth.

Not ten thousand people. He doesn't say, Satan, look at those ten thousand people over there meeting in that group there. No, he's talking about one man. In that time, God could boast about only one man to Satan.

And Satan tried to tear down that one man's testimony. He didn't succeed. And that's the subject of the first book of the Bible. And that taught me something. If that was what God decided to be the subject of the first book of the Bible, that must be very important for us.

What? The testimony of one man. In the midst of 1 ,200 million people in India, the testimony of one man is important to him up in the heavenlies. I don't know how many millions there were on earth in Job's time.

But it was one man that mattered. And Satan was disturbed that in the midst of all the people who served him on earth, there was one man who wouldn't serve him. One man who was honoring God. That disturbs Satan even today.

In the midst of corrupt, hypocritical Christians who fight with each other at home, who watch pornography on the internet, whom the devil is happy with, who call themselves believers and sing songs and all that.

But whose private lives are so corrupt or unrighteous with money matters, who love money, who are gloomy, depressed and discouraged. If the devil finds one Christian who is going to live according to New Testament standards, that disturbs him.

I don't know whether you realize that. It's so important for God to have here and there, one or two really upright people. One person, one family. And you know how God speaks to Satan in that place. He says to Satan in Job chapter 1 verse 8, Have you considered my servant Job?

And by the way, Satan, when he comes to Job, he told the Lord that he'd been, verse 7, roaming about on the earth, walking around on it. He's doing that even today. He goes around the earth. Satan is not in hell by the way.

People who haven't read the Bible think that Satan is in hell. Do you know that Satan has never been in hell? And do you know that Satan will never go to hell? And these are surprising things. The Bible knows better about heaven and hell and the Holy Spirit tells us, this may surprise you but that is the truth.

Satan's never been in hell and he'll never go to hell. The Bible says that he was cast down from the third heaven which is the immediate dwelling place of God. And he was cast down to what I believe is the second heaven.

The first heaven is this universe that we see. And that's where he is. In Ephesians, that area is called the heavenlies. And he was cast down from there. And one day in the future, when the Antichrist reigns on earth, Revelation 12 says, he'll be cast down from the heavenlies to the earth.

And then he'll be on earth for three and a half years. And then when Jesus establishes his kingdom for a thousand years on this earth, he will bind Satan in a bottomless pit. It's still not hell. In a bottomless pit for a thousand years.

And then at the end of that, he'll be released. And then it says in Revelation 20, he'll be cast into that final lake of fire into which hell will also be cast. So that's what I, so Satan's journey has been the third heaven to the second heaven to earth, to the bottomless pit, to the lake of fire.

And that's what I meant by saying he's not in hell and he's never will be in hell. But he has got freedom to roam around the earth. And he knows the condition of all people and especially of anybody like Job on the earth today.

And you know, Job it says was a man who was, it's very first verse, blameless, upright, fearing God, turning away from evil. When you realize that this is the very first sentence of inspired scripture, the very first sentence of inspired scripture speaks about a man who was blameless, upright, feared God and turned away from evil.

When I read that and see that that's the first sentence of inspired scripture, I know what God wants for me. I know what he's looking for on earth. Not huge crowds of people who claim to say, I've accepted Jesus as my savior.

There are millions like that who are not blameless in their life, who are not upright, who do not fear God, who do not turn away their eyes or their tongue from evil. They dishonor the Lord's name and I know the Lord's name is dishonored by such people and he's terribly disappointed because he cannot point out such people to Satan.

He cannot say, Satan, have you considered so and so? And Satan says, I know all about that person. I know all about his private life. I know all about how he lives at home. Look at his children, how wayward they are.

I know all about how he deals with money in his office. I know how he deals with other people in his place of work. I know how he treats his wife, how she treats her husband. God is a righteous God. He's not going to defend people who are dishonoring his name.

But here and there, God is so thrilled and delighted when he can point out such people because one person, one here, one there, maybe only one in a city sometimes. I suppose in some countries, maybe only one in a whole country.

And he can turn to the devil and say, what about that person? I know there are a lot of hypocrites among my people who claim themselves, claim to be my children, but what about that person? Have you, and Satan knows all about, he knows all about how we do our work, how we run our business, how we live at home, how we handle our money, how we speak, what we watch on the computer.

He knows everything about every single person. He's got millions of demons keeping a check on every single person who calls himself a believer. And he's got an answer for anyone, you know, because it says in Revelation 12, 10, he's called the accuser of the brethren.

In Revelation 12, he's called the deceiver of the whole world, but the accuser specifically of the brethren. He doesn't accuse the whole world because more than 95 of them are in his hands. He doesn't worry about them, but he's concerned about those who claim to be born again.

Those are the ones he's watching all the time. A lot of those who claim to be born again are not really born again. He doesn't worry about them. In fact, he's happy about them because they're living in a self-deception.

They're children of God when they're not. I've met numerous people on earth who imagine that they're born again just because sometime in the ancient past they said these magic words, Lord Jesus, come into my heart.

Their lives are not any different from the lives of any other unbeliever in the world. So God, Satan doesn't bother about such people. In fact, he's very happy about such people because these people are not converted, but they think they are.

But he's concerned about the wholehearted disciples of Jesus who love Jesus supremely and who fear God, who are blameless and upright in their life, who don't live at the low standard that other Christians live, and who are turning away from evil all the time.

That really bothers him. And those are the ones he's seeking to accuse, to find some little fault in them so that he can point out to God and he's the accuser of the brethren. And it says in Revelation 12 .10 that he accuses them day and night.

This is the reality of what's going on in the heavenlies. I wonder whether any of you even think about it. We can be so occupied with what's going on on earth and how we need to evangelize people and bring people to Christ that we don't realize that our testimony before Satan is important for God.

That's the message in Job chapter 1, that God wants to boast about us to the devil. And he's not a liar. He cannot cover up our sins and say, no, no, that's okay. He wants to, he'll speak the truth. And so, it's not just that he was upright.

Job as a Godly Father

There was something else about Job. He had seven sons and verse two and three daughters and he was a very good father. That's the other thing about him. It was not just that his own personal life was so good.

But you know, whenever his sons had a fever, they would feast. At the end of the feast, it says in verse five, that when the days of feasting were over, Job would call his, you know, it says here, each was living in their own house.

Verse four, which means they were all grown up. I don't know, Job, maybe in 60, 70 or 80, I don't know, 30 years old. I don't know how old he was, but his children were all grown up. All 10 of them were living in their own homes and whenever somebody's birthday came along, they would all feast together for a number of days, have a feast for the celebration of the birthday.

And then when it was all over, Job would call all these married children who were living in their own homes, he would send for them and consecrate them. Now, it's very rare these days to see even Christian fathers calling their married children and say, come here, my boys, my boys and girls, I want to pray for you.

I mean, it's difficult enough for a lot of parents to get their teenage children together to pray for them. Imagine calling married children who are living in some other home saying, come, I want to pray for you guys.

There's so little respect. Job was a man who was respected by his married children and that means he brought them up well. Unlike most Christian parents today, he says he would get up early in the morning and get his sons to get up early in the morning.

A lot of sons would rebel if their fathers called them to get up early in the morning for a time of prayer. And he would offer burnt offerings for them, verse 5, for each one of them. And the reason was, he says, perhaps, I'm not sure.

Look at his sensitivity to sin. Perhaps, during these days of fasting, my sons may have sinned and they may have committed sin in their hearts. Boy, how many fathers are concerned that their sons may have sinned in their hearts.

This man was an amazing man. No wonder God boasted about him. I wonder if we're challenged by that. I find a lot of people read scriptures like this and they don't even notice these things. And I believe they don't notice these things because they're not serious Christians.

Judging Others and Seeking God’s Evaluation

One of the great tragedies I have seen through the years is that so many millions of people say, the Bible is the word of God. But they watch television more than they read the Bible. What does that prove?

They think television is the word of God, not this. They say this. With their mouth they say that, you know, the Lord said, with your mouth you draw near to me, but your heart goes after something else.

That's what he told the Pharisees. And God knows whether we mean what he's saying. It says here, he did this continually. That's why the devil was so much after him. This guy had not only lived an upright life, but he brought up his family well.

He brought up his children in a godly way. And these, you know, I read this many, many years ago when my children were all small. And a desire came in my heart even then. I said, Lord, I hope you can boast about me to the devil.

I'm not concerned what people think about me because most human beings know only 1 of my life. How much do you guys know about my life? I'll tell you 1 at the most. You don't know anything about my private life.

You don't know anything about my thoughts. I don't know anything about your thoughts in your private life either. We assess each other knowing 1%. That's the stupidity of judging other people. That's why the Bible says don't judge people.

Because you know only 1 of their life. Have you ever heard of a teacher who marks an examination paper after just seeing whether the first out of 100 questions was right? What about all the other 99 questions?

You don't want to mark it. That's why it says don't judge. The most foolish people on earth are those who judge others when they know only 1 of their life. We'd be terribly shocked if a teacher marked only 1 of the paper and gave marks.

But we're doing it all the time. Man is basically a hypocrite. We judge others for what we are doing all the time ourselves. And we don't even realize it. So, when I say this, I said, Lord, I want to know what Satan thinks about my life.

The most important person's opinion is God's. What does God think about my life? That is number one because he sees areas of my life which even the devil cannot see, which is my thoughts. The devil can't read my thoughts.

But then the second person whose opinion is very important to me is the devil's. Not my fellow believers' opinion because they don't know much of my life. The devil sees so many areas of my life which other people don't know.

He knows exactly how I handle money. He knows exactly how I speak to my wife 365 days of the year. He knows whether I'm gloomy and depressed, whether I rejoice in the Lord always or I don't. He knows whether I obey the command which says be anxious for nothing.

He knows whether I obey the command that I must not lust with my eyes. He knows whether I love my enemies, how I treat them. So, next to God, what Satan thinks about me is very, very important to me. I hope it's important to you because that determines whether God can boast about me to save you.

Have you considered my servant Zach who lives in Bangalore? Put your name there. And the devil says, I know all about it. And I say, what is the area of my life which the devil can accuse me to God about, to dishonor God's name?

David’s Sin and Giving Satan Occasion to Blaspheme

I wonder whether you realize this. I thought about this verse in 2 Samuel chapter 12. In 2 Samuel chapter 12 when David had sinned against Bathsheba and he didn't confess it for at least nine months, almost till the baby was born.

And then God sends a prophet to him. Nathan, the prophet, comes to point out to David that you're the guilty man. And one of the things Nathan tells David is this, 2 Samuel chapter 12 verse 14. By your action, you have given an occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme his name.

And the way, even though Nathan didn't mean it like that, I applied to myself that something I do in private, which nobody knows about, maybe even my wife doesn't know about what I'm doing. You know, a lot of things husbands do with their wives don't have a clue what they're doing.

A lot of secrets, sinful things. And, but the devil sees it. And I say, Lord, is there anything in my life which is causing the enemies of the Lord, that is Satan, to blaspheme the Lord's name and say in the heavenlies, God, look at that guy.

He's a preacher. He claims to be a holy man, unlike other nominal Christians. He claims to be born again. He claims to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Look at him. Look at what he's doing. Or look at the way he's speaking to his wife.

I say, Lord, is there anything in my life, which is causing the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme you because of me? I don't want it. I don't want it. I want to do everything in my power to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that I give no occasion to Satan to blaspheme God because of me.

Seeing Life from the Heavenly Perspective

It's so important for God to have at least one man whom he can boast about. He'd like to have one man in every town. We think of big mega churches. Oh boy, what a lot of glory to God must be coming with that huge mega church singing and praising God.

You don't know much about the heavenlies. On an earthly realm, you get all excited with that. When God gives you a vision of the heavenlies, you see things in an altogether different perspective. I was born again 54 years ago when I was 19 years old.

But it's only when God baptized me in the Holy Spirit and fire that I was transported into another realm, into the heavenlies, and I began to see things from God's perspective. You can't do that yourself.

You can educate yourself and study the Bible, but it's only the baptism in the Holy Spirit that will lift you up and show you things the way God sees things. I'll tell you that. For example, I never knew how to cast out a demon until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I was scared to meet demon-possessed people. I wouldn't know what to do. I'd be like that preacher who had a demon-possessed person walk into his meeting and he said, I don't know how to cast out a demon, but if I cast you out of the hall, the demon will go, so get him thrown out of the hall.

But Jesus never did that. He cast out the demon. A lot of Christians are living in an earthly plane and they're happy with it. It's those who hunger and thirst for God's best, who experience a lifting up in their spirits to see things in the heavenlies.

In Colossians 1, there's a verse, Colossians 1 verse 9 reads like this. For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of God's will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding.

Now, you know, this, the language of scripture is sometimes so heavy that sometimes I like to read these scriptures in a paraphrase by people who know Greek better than me. I don't know Greek at all, but I like to read these paraphrases and I was reading this verse, you know, that you might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding.

It's too complicated for me to understand such an expression, filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding. So, I was reading this in a paraphrase and the paraphrase read like this.

We are praying that you will see things as it were from God's viewpoint. Wow! That really opened up that verse to me. So, the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding meant that I got to see everything from God's viewpoint.

That made sense to me. Hey, I'm supposed to not see things from an earthly viewpoint. I'm supposed to see everything from God's viewpoint. And if I allow the Holy Spirit to make me see things from God's viewpoint, I may find victory over sin much easier.

Victory over sin is such a battle when I'm seeing everything from this low level of earthly standpoint. So many things that look so attractive to me and pull me so much, won't pull me so much if I were to see them from God's viewpoint.

For example, massive buildings look pretty small even when you go up in an airplane. There's not much difference between the little hut and the palace when you're up in an airplane. And there's not much difference between the BMW and the ordinary cheap whatever car you have.

When you're up in the heavenlies, they mean a lot on earth when you look at it. Oh, I wish I'd like to have a car like that. When you're up in the plane, they all look the same. And imagine if you get up into the heavenlies, there are little specks over there.

Tremendous differences happen in our life. The pool of temptation becomes much less. A lot of those pretty women who tempt you don't look so pretty when you're up in the heavenlies, you know. And you look at them from God's viewpoint.

You see them as people for whom Jesus died who need to be saved, not pretty women to be lusted after. Everything changes. Temptation, to overcome temptation becomes so much easier if the Holy Spirit can make you see everything and where it becomes a way of life, not just the occasional view, but where it becomes a way of life with you where everything you see from God's viewpoint, you don't begin to fight for earthly things so much.

You don't hold grudges for somebody who cheated you or robbed you. A lot of things change when you see things from God's viewpoint. And that's what I'm saying in the book of Job. Job himself did not know what's written in the book of Job.

Job himself did not know what was going on over there. We know it. The Bible speaks about the heavenlies in the book of Ephesians. There's a lot written about the heavenlies in Ephesians. I want you to turn there for a moment.

In Christ in the Heavenlies

In Ephesians, I would say the main phrase in Paul's letter to the Ephesians is the phrase, in Christ. And that's what makes the difference. The Holy Spirit brings me into Christ. Now, most of us as Christians think more of Christ in us.

That's in Colossians. Colossians theme is Christ in you, the hope of glory. But in Ephesians, the theme is you in Christ. And if you were to ask yourself, which do you think of more? Christ in you or you in Christ?

I think the answer would be you think more of Christ in you. I've asked Jesus to come into my heart. He's living in me. You know, He lives, He lives. You ask me how I know He lives? He lives within my heart.

Well, that's true. But when you begin to think of what's emphasized in Ephesians that I am in Christ, there are certain other truths that open up to us in an amazing way. For example, it's right in the very first verse.

It says in the last part of the verse first, those who are faithful in Christ Jesus. Or in chapter one, verse three, God has blessed us with every blessing of the Holy Spirit in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.

So, you know, to understand being in the heavenly, seeing things from God's viewpoint, I need to see how God placed me in Christ. It says in verse four, that long before the foundation of the world, that means before Genesis one, verse one.

Ephesians one, four comes before Genesis one, verse one. Genesis one, verse one is the foundation of the world being laid. But before that, when there was only Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like John one, verse one, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

That's speaking about the deity of Christ. But there's something else was in the beginning too. That's Ephesians one, four. He chose, let's make it personal, put your name there. He chose me, again that phrase, in Christ.

It's not about Christ in me, it's me in Christ. And when did He choose me? Before Genesis one, verse one. And He chose me not to go to heaven when I die. Most Christians thinking, I'm going to go to heaven when I die.

But that's not what He chose me for. He did not choose me to be a preacher. He did not choose me to go around doing evangelism. He did not choose me to plant churches. He did not choose me to go to heaven.

He chose me to be holy and blameless. It's written there. And holy and blameless, not before men, but before Him. Ah, now I know why God chose me. You know, a lot of Christians don't know why God chose them.

They think God chose them to be a preacher or an evangelist or a witness or this and the other. No, sir. God chose you to be holy and blameless before Him. And if you don't want to know, if you're really surrendering your life to Christ, if you don't want to know when He chose you, He chose you before Genesis one, verse one.

That means when? Was it a hundred years before Genesis one, verse one? When do you think He chose you? Was it a hundred years before Genesis one, verse one? Or was it 3 ,000 years before Genesis one, verse one?

Can you think? God's given us a mind to think. I like to tell people, sometimes we like to tell, I like to tell people something that'll shock them, to wake them up to reality. I say in the beginning, way back in the beginning, there was the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and me in God's mind.

You believe that? I believe that. Do you think God discovered me after having existed for about 10 ,000 years? He suddenly realized, Hey, there's somebody going to be like Zacman and was going to come onto the earth.

When did you discover that? Is there something God discovers some somewhere later on in time, which he did not know in the beginning? That's not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible knew the end from the beginning, it says.

So, when did He know you and your name? I mean, you may have accepted Christ in the 20th century. When did God know about it? God knew about it right in the beginning. That blows away our mind to think about it.

But I'll tell you what it brought into my mind. When I realized that I existed in God's mind from the beginning, it brought such tremendous security into my life. It really brought, made me secure. Most Christians that I've met are insecure.

It's insecure Christians who are jealous of others, who are competing with others, who are trying to show that I can preach better than others or sing better than others or do something better than others.

It's insecure Christians who are always boasting about their accomplishments. It's insecure Christians who are always trying to show, you know, to try and get some credit for something they've done. People who are secure in God don't want any of these things.

It's insecure Christians who fight with others. It's insecure Christians who are always running after money thinking they'll never have enough to live on this earth. Do you know the number of problems I, I, I, the more I've thought about it through the years, I, I once preached a sermon on this.

Insecurity is the cause of almost all sins. Insecure in God. And that security comes when I know that He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that I might be holy and blameless before Him.

And if God chose me to be holy and blameless before Him, I want to do everything in my power to be holy and blameless before Him. And I believe that anything I do for God will come out of being holy and blameless before Him.

Otherwise, it's got no value. I've often thought that I don't have to produce the rivers of water that flows from the throne of God. I got to just make sure that the channel through me is pure. That's all.

I don't have to produce anything. One of the great truths that I learned from the miracles of Jesus was that I never had to do, I never had to produce anything in my ministry. You remember the feeding of the 5 ,000?

Did the disciples produce the bread or distribute the bread? What do you think? And I've said that to the Lord. I said, Lord, I'm not in the production business. I don't produce bread. I don't produce sermons.

Other preachers may do that, but not me. I'm in the distribution business. I pass on what you give me. Whatever you give me, I'll pass on. And I'll be the, I believe that'll be the best wine at the feast and it'll be the best bread they've ever eaten.

If I say, Lord, I cannot produce it, but if you give it to me, I'll distribute it. And so, God's called us to keep the channel pure. The waters will come from Him. The bread will come from Him. I've only got to pass it on.

But in order to pass it on, I have to be in constant touch with Him. It's much easier to be out of touch with Him and sit down on a Saturday and read a lot of books and listen to a lot of tapes and produce the sermon.

There won't be any anointing on it. He chose me before the foundation of the world and you, if you will be gripped by it, to be holy and blameless before Him. And so, then we understand what it means to be crucified with Christ and to be raised with Christ and to be seated in the heavenlies with Christ.

Crucified, Raised, and Seated with Christ

Many people don't understand this. What does it mean that my old man was crucified with Him? They say, I don't feel dead. They know, I mean, they seem to understand that their sins are all placed on Christ.

But they say, how, how, how did I get crucified with Christ? I'm here. How did I get crucified with Christ? Well, how many of your sins placed in Christ on the cross? Two thousand years ago, long before you committed a single sin.

All those sins, which were in the future two thousand years ago, were placed on Christ. That means God already knew all the sins you're going to, you're going to commit. And even the ones you pass present future and your whole life were all placed on Christ two thousand years ago because God knows the end from the beginning.

He knows every single sin I'm ever going to commit and He's placed it all on Christ. The sins of the whole world, by the way. It says in 1 John 2, Christ is the propitiation or the Christ is the sacrifice, 1 John chapter 2 and verse 2.

That means, propitiation means the sacrifice that satisfied the heart of God. Justice was satisfied. That's propitiation. The justice of God is satisfying. Propitiation for our sins and, this is what all Calvinists must read very carefully, not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world.