May 23, 2025 Show with Claude Ramsey on “The Weary Pilgrim’s Hope of Heaven”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 23rd day of May 2025, and we are getting ready to launch the

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Memorial Day weekend. And I am so thrilled to have a returning guest in the program, my dear friend,

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Pastor Claude Ramsey of Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

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He's also a Bible Conference speaker and the host of the

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Here I Stand Theology Podcast. Today, our theme is going to be the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven, and we're also going to be promoting the upcoming

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Roadmap to Revival Conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee, which is going to take place this

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September. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Claude Ramsey.

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Thank you, sir. I'm so glad to be with you again. Well, tell our listeners about Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

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Reformata Baptist Church is still a growing church plant.

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We planted the church 16 years ago in this month, 16 years ago, and we are located in South Knoxville, Tennessee, just about 30 minutes outside of Pigeon Forge, which most folks would probably know that as a landmark.

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That is where all of the big tourism happens here in the

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Tennessee region. So that Dolly World is still a big draw? Yes, sir.

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Dolly World is still there. I think Dolly Parton owns most of Pigeon Forge.

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Wow. Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. Well, hopefully she'll pay you a visit sometime at the church.

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And well, tell us something about the theological makeup of Reformata Baptist Church and how you selected the name.

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So Reformata Baptist Church, the name Reformata itself is from a larger

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Latin term, Ecclesia Reformata Semper Reformanda Secundum Verbum Dea.

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That is the best Latin that you're going to get out of a hillbilly right there. But it simply means the church reformed and always being reformed according to the word of God.

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So we are a confessional, a creedal confessional,

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Calvinistic local church that just strives to glorify

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God in all that we do and say, and in and from every activity from the church, we strive for that.

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And I understand that you are still using Facebook as the primary way for people to find out more about your church.

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Actually, we now have a web page or a website. Oh, great. It is reformatabaptistchurch .org.

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Let me verify the .org there because it could be .com, but let me check that. But it will be

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R -E -F -O -R -M -A -T, as in Thomas A.,

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baptistchurch .org. Great. Yep, we have a wonderful group of men who oversee this page.

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It is reformatabaptistchurch .org. And it is a simple page, but it has been built with particular specifics in mind.

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So, for example, on the About Us tab on the page, you'll, of course, see what we believe, just kind of a general overview of doctrinal standards.

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As well, you'll see that we are 1689 Confessional Baptist Church. You'll be able to find out a little bit about the elders of the church and read up on the church constitution, which is important for folks who are looking for a church so that they have this information kind of ahead of them as they are in and about their search.

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And, of course, we have the Reformata Baptist Church YouTube page now as well. So that's where all the sermons are going directly to,

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Reformata Baptist Church on YouTube. You can also watch them live each week on Facebook at Reformata Baptist Church as well.

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And I understand one of the strictest requirements you have for church membership is listening to Iron Sharpens Iron radio daily.

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Exactly. Each and every week, everybody lines up to confess whether or not they have watched or listened to Iron Sharpens Iron.

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If they haven't, they are forced to sit and listen to an entire

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Stephen Furtick sermon. I was getting worried there for a minute.

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I thought you were going to say forced to listen to Iron Sharpens Iron radio as if someone needs to be forced to listen.

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Nobody needs to be forced to listen to this. This is, by the way, of course, and your listeners know it, but for those who may be listening that don't know it, this is one of the longest and steadfast, most consistent and faithful to the word radio shows that you will find.

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So, I would encourage everybody to listen to Iron Sharpens Iron radio every weekday from 4 to 6 p .m.

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How's that for a plug? That sounds great. In fact, when I started the show in 2005, there was hardly anybody doing an interview talk show that was

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Reformed. And now, you know, I've got more competition than I'm even aware of.

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I mean, there's probably thousands of people, and that's just from the

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Reformed camp doing interview podcasts. But anyway, well,

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I so love having you on the program. And let's, before we forget, plug the upcoming conference where you are one of a number of speakers.

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That is the Roadmap to Revival Conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee, at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tullahoma, pastored by Jeffrey Rice, who is also the founder and president and master craftsman at the

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Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding. But if you could tell us about this conference and your participation in it.

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All right. So, first of all, let me just go ahead and give the address for that. That's C -R -B -C,

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Tullahoma, T -U -L -L -A -H -O -M -A, C -R -B -C,

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Tullahoma .org. That's where folks can get registered. That is the church's website.

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If you talk to Jeff himself, Tullahoma, is it pronounced Tullahoma? It's Tallahoma.

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Now, is he mispronouncing it or is that the way it's supposed to be? No, it's just accent.

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It's just accent. I just noticed that when he speaks. But this conference really is an extension of the previous conferences that Jeff has hosted for the past two years.

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It had been the Open Air Theology Conference. This year, it's just called the C -R -B -C

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Conference because it is just specific to his local church there, Covenant Reformed Baptist Church.

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And the topic is Roadmap to Revival. As you mentioned, there are a number of speakers going to be at this conference.

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So, Jeff, I texted Jeff earlier. He sent me the list of the speakers in their order in the topics that will be spoke on.

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So, James White will be both opening and closing the conference, which again is

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September the 12th and 13th. That's a Friday and a Saturday. James White will be opening and speaking on the revival of the authority of the

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Scripture. Following him, Andrew Rappaport. Everybody loves

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Andrew Rappaport. He's a good brother in Christ. He'll be speaking on the revival of faithful leadership.

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And then everybody's favorite denominational guy, Keith Foskey, king of the millennials, will be speaking on the topic of revival begins in the house of God.

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The next preacher will be Jonathan Burrus. He'll be preaching on revival through repentance, and I'll be closing out that Friday a session preaching on the cost of revival.

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And then Saturday, Michael Schultz. I believe you just had Michael on on Monday. Yeah, but we have to have him back on because my computer died right in the middle of the show, which is why

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I have a new computer. Well, Michael will be preaching on the topic of revival through spirit empowered preaching.

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That will be definitely a sermon that you will not want to miss. Michael Schultz is a faithful, trustworthy man of God who knows.

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I mean, he's a smart young man. Yes, I was reading his resume and he's got some very impressive academic background to him.

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He had to be so young, too. Jeremiah Nortier will be preaching on revival in a confessional church.

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Then Jeff Rice himself will be preaching revival through the gospel is his topic. And then closing out

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Saturday's session, the topic by James White will be no prayer and no revival.

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Which is a very, very good, good topic. I look forward to hearing that as well.

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So it's going to be a jam packed two days. However, Jeff is working to fashion the conference in such a way that there is plenty of time for fellowship between the sermons, so on and so forth.

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So it will be a wonderful time in the Lord. I encourage everybody that can to be to to go to that as well.

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Great. And we will be repeating the website, God willing, towards the end of the program.

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Well, you have picked a very profound theme for our discussion today.

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The weary pilgrim's hope of heaven. I'm doing that by memory.

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Did I get that right? Yes, sir. Yeah, because I'm trying to get to that page on my phone here.

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But why is it that you were so compelled to discuss that specific theme today?

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Well, it stems from, as is most everything in our lives individually,

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I think I think each of us as believers go through times of what we may consider dark nights of the soul.

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We go through periods of depression. We go through periods of just just simply being

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I mean, I don't think I'm alone in this, but just simply being overwhelmed by the by the by the effects of sin.

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Not so much in the world. It's expected in the world. But when we see sin ravage the church of God, you know, both both both local and regional or however you want to phrase that in that term, the big the church at large, it's just kind of it's it's in a way at times disheartening.

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And I just wanted to by the grace of God today to maybe just have this conversation and maybe walk through some of the the personal challenges that that I'm facing with the onslaught of negative news that we have had just in this past year within particularly within Reformed circles, within Reformed churches, where, you know, it seems like maybe 20 years ago or so, it all of the scandals and all of the problems that goes on go on within churches, maybe due to the fact that it wasn't necessarily just we didn't have access to information like we have it now.

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But having that access now, I think, is is both a positive and negative and can be a detriment to our spiritual health as believers, as as a

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Christian man, seeing and realizing and understanding the the depths of our depravity as individuals and also understanding at that same point in time that when we we see the depth of depravity rising up in the church, that we must equip ourselves both mentally and spiritually to handle the the devastating news like we've received over this past again this past year with the, you know, with the downfall of several leaders within the

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Reformed church. And it's just I wanted to talk about this so that if other folks are experiencing this,

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I wanted number one to encourage folks and number two to educate folks in case they don't know that the church of Jesus Christ itself is going to be all right because the

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Lord founded the church and the Lord keeps his church. And so what what we as believers need to understand and know is that as as John Bunyan puts it,

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I love John Bunyan, but, you know, in his book, The Pilgrim's Progress, it's all about going through the world, this world with a heavy weight upon your back.

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And in the case of The Pilgrim's Progress, it's that that weight of sin and that journey, if you would have it, to heaven.

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For we are, as believers, pilgrims and strangers here is what the Bible teaches.

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And so being a pilgrim, there are times when we just get disheartened, we get disgusted, and we just get fed up with the things that's going on.

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But we can't quit. There's no quitting place. There's no stopping place. There's no place for us to lay down our sword, so to speak, and to just wait for the end.

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We've got to continue to plod along faithfully and look to the

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Lord as our source of strength and our source of hope. Now, there are some, not all,

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I don't want to broad brush. There are some post -millennialists that,

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I'm not even sure where you are eschatologically. Well, there are some post -millennialists who think that Christians are all too often wishing they were in heaven, because obviously post -millennialists believe that there will likely be many decades, if not even centuries, left here on this earth before the return of Christ.

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And they view this mindset of longing for heaven on occasion.

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Remember, I'm not broad brushing here, because this isn't the case with all post -mill folks, of which there are post -millennialists on the roster at the conference where you're speaking, and some of our dearest friends are post -mill, like our mutual friend

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Dr. James R. White. I never heard him speak this way. But they think it's a defeatist attitude, that even to utter the phrase, even so,

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Lord, come quickly, is an annoying phrase for them. What kind of response do you have to that negative attitude about the longing for heaven?

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Of course, I'm sure even a post -millennialist, if he's on his deathbed, is longing for heaven, if he's suffering.

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But, you know, how do you respond to that?

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So, number one, first thing I do is I recognize the terminology. So, escapism is a term that's used a lot of times, right?

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That's the term that's really one of the key terms that's used a lot of times. But it's really not the biblical view,

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I don't think, is that's a fitting term. I think anticipation, a longing for and a looking for, rightly, for, number one, to be with the

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Lord. And then, number two, because of the troubles and trials in this life, we just get overwhelmed.

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But my response to that would be a biblical response, and I would go to 2 Corinthians, 2

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Corinthians chapter 5. So, the Apostle Paul himself, in speaking to the church at Corinth in his second letter, and would it be okay if I just read some of the text here?

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Of course, of course. Okay, so 2 Corinthians chapter 5, beginning in verse 1, the

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Apostle Paul says this, For we know that if this tent, or this tabernacle, that is our earthly home, is destroyed, that we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, that is eternal in the heavens.

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Now, again, it's important that we understand the context of the passage. This tabernacle, this tent that he's talking about, is not a building.

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He's talking about his body. And goes on in verse 2 and says, For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling.

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And if indeed by putting it on, we may not be found naked. For Paul says this,

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For while we are still in this tent, we do groan, because we're burdened.

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But not that we would be unclothed, but that we would further be clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

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And he who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the

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Spirit as a guarantee. So, Paul says, We are always of good courage, for we know that while we are at home in the body, that we are away from the

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Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the

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Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please the

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Lord. So, we see this longing in Paul's writing.

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If we jump over to the book of Philippians, again in Paul's letter to the church at Philippi, Paul is again the apostle of Christ, but he is a man who suffered greatly physically and spiritually, speaking for Christ.

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And in his letter to the Philippian church, which is probably, I refer to it as his mushiest letter, it's the mushiest of the epistles, because there's so much love and affection that he pours out in this letter.

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But in verse 19 of chapter 1 of Philippians, he says, I know that through your prayers and the help of the

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Spirit of Jesus Christ, this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage, now as always,

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Christ will be honored in my body, whether it be by life or by death. And then he makes this statement that everybody has on bumper stickers and on magnets for the refrigerator, for to me to live is

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Christ and to die is gain. That's a huge statement he makes.

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And he says, if I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me, yet which

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I shall choose I cannot tell, for I am hard pressed between the two. So here again, we have this pulling, kind of heaven pulling upward and the earth pulling downward.

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He said, if I am to live in this flesh, it means fruit for me. I'm hard pressed between the two, for my desire,

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Paul said, is to depart and to be with Christ. That is far better. Even the apostle

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Paul admitted that and said that. But he said, to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

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And convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus because of my coming to you again.

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So long, long drawn out answer scripturally to your question, that would be my response and my answer is that it's not escapism when we talk about longing to be with the

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Lord and longing to go home, to be with the Lord. It's anticipation. It's a very real hope promised to the believer.

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Amen. And of course, there are people that have an unbalanced eschatology and unbalanced

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Christian life where the old saying of why polish the brass on a sinking ship, where there is little, if any, passion to bring transformation to the culture and the world through our

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Christian witness. You know, they just are so focused on being raptured out of here that those things aren't of great importance, if any.

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But there are still many folks who seem to have a balance over these things in a good way.

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Well, we are going to our first commercial break, and if you have a question for Pastor Claude, submit it to chrisorensen at gmail .com.

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chrisorensen at gmail .com. It doesn't have to be on our theme today. He is a pastor, so he may have a question that requires some word of counsel.

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We always obviously hope that you have a solid church where you're a member, where you can go to your own elders.

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But unfortunately, there are people who are beginning to question the theology and soundness of the church where there are members and they need other godly voices to guide them through things.

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So obviously, if it's something like that, you may remain anonymous. But if you have any question on the

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Bible, history, theology, you'd like to ask Pastor Claude, and it's a general question, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Don't go away. We are going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

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James White here of Alpha Omega Ministries announcing that this September I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend

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Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11 a .m.,

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I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville. Then on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30

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p .m., I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the

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Bible is the Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.

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For more details on the Free Pastors Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.

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That's ironsharpensironradio .com. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org.

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That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the

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Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

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At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

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God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

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In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

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Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

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That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

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And don't forget, CVBBS .com is now shipping worldwide. We are now back with Pastor Claude Ramsey of Reformation Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, who is also the host of the

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Here I Stand Theology podcast and also speaker at the upcoming

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Roadmap to Revival conference in Tullahoma, Tennessee. And we are discussing the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven.

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Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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And let me go to a question that's directly involving the concept of heaven.

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We have Justine in Albany, New York, who asks,

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I am somewhat confused about the different places where Jesus is supposed to be right now.

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I know that the Bible describes him as going to Sheol and also paradise, and yet he is seated at the right hand of the

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Father. Can you explain these three seemingly contradicting concepts?

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Absolutely. So, and I'll be as succinct as possible. So, for example, if we were to let me bring up a text here from Revelation, actually,

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Revelation chapter 1, because we have Christ himself explaining and talking about this, that he says in Revelation chapter 1, verse 17,

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John said, When I saw him, I fell at his feet, though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, Fear not,

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I am the first and the last and the living one. I died, and behold, I am alive forevermore. I have the keys of death and hades.

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So, in both Hebrew and Greek literature, particularly the languages the

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Bible itself is written in, we have mention of death. So death is just exactly what you think of it, death.

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It's dying. It's ceasing to live. And then hades is referred to in Hebrew and Greek literature as the place of the dead.

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So Christ, we have it according to the scriptures, 1 Corinthians chapter 15, one through four, we have it that the gospel is this, that Christ died for our sins, and that he was buried, that's being placed in the grave, hades, in the place of the dead, and that he arose from the dead.

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So the key to understanding these different terms that are used is just knowing what they mean.

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So death is ceasing to live, hades is referred to as the place of the dead, and of course, the scripture says

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Christ arose and that he ascended to the right hand of the throne of God, where he ever lives, or where he always lives, so he never dies.

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And to the topic at hand, the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven, the fact that our

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Savior, this is a foundational hope for us, that the resurrection of the dead is a foundational hope for the believer.

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If we do not have this hope of the fact that Christ, not the idea, but the very fact that Christ died, that he was buried, and that he arose from the dead, and that he ever lives, then truly we have no hope.

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The apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 as well, he said, if in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

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So our hope goes beyond this world, and the language of the scriptures that refers to death and hades, again, it's simplified by just understanding what those words and terms mean.

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Well, thank you very much for a very excellent question. And one thing that may overly concern

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Christians, which they need not be overly concerned about, is we are certain that when we depart from this earth, if we are truly born again, that is, we will be with Christ in paradise.

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Amen. And however, if you want to get down to the details on the afterlife, would you not say, and this is something that you typically don't hear necessarily spoken of,

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I think that perhaps even primarily in fundamentalist pulpits, the afterlife is often preached on as if you will be in your final reward in heaven, or if you are lost or if you are damned, you will be in hell, the place prepared for the devil and his angels, the lake of fire.

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But are not both the regenerate and the reprobate in different compartments of the afterlife, if you will, where paradise is not quite yet the full -blown heaven that we will be enjoying when we are reunited with our bodies, and hell, although it's going to be a torturous place as soon as the lost or the damned die, it's not even quite the full -blown lake of fire where, if you look at the chronology of this, these are two places, the one for the elect being in heaven for eternity and the one for the damned being in hell for eternity.

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Those are places that the elect and the damned go to after judgment.

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Am I making sense here? Yeah, that's spelled out toward the end of the book of the

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Revelation there. Because that topic and that doctrine is so large,

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I think it's largely, like you mentioned, it's largely passed over by a lot of pastors and it shouldn't be.

41:28

This should be something that is taught, that is communicated, that is articulated so that folks can have a good and a right understanding of that.

41:40

And do you think, I don't think this is a salvific issue.

41:47

I have met and spoken with fellow believers who believe it is a salvific issue, but I think that perhaps they're being somewhat harsh, even though rightly very concerned about the accuracy of doctrine.

42:05

Those folks who wrongly believe in soul sleep, I believe that it is a very serious error and it robs

42:16

Christians unnecessarily of joy when they are contemplating the death of brothers and sisters in Christ and loved ones who were born again.

42:31

They're obviously not grieving as if these folks are damned, but still to believe they are just unconscious in the earth or wherever the realm of the unconscious is.

42:49

Why is this such a bad understanding of the afterlife?

42:57

Well, because I think it minimizes the value of the soul.

43:05

So God breathed in a man the breath of life, a man became a living soul. So to consider the idea of soul sleep is a lot,

43:16

I think the best analogous way that I could explain it is a lot like cryogenic sleep, something just put on kind of on hold.

43:28

It's not something that the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches directly from the scripture.

43:35

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. In the gospels on the cross, when our

43:42

Lord was crucified there between the two thieves, the one thief kept railing on him, mocking him, if you're the

43:49

Christ, save yourself and us. He just wanted to get out of trouble. But the other thief, oh

43:56

God opened his eyes and he saw Christ for who he is, the savior of the world.

44:02

And he looked to Jesus and according to the scriptures, he said, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

44:09

And Jesus did not say, tell you what, you take a nap on it, you sleep for a while and you'll be with me.

44:16

No, Jesus said today, you will be with me in paradise.

44:22

So the moment that thief closed his eyes in death, oh, he was with the

44:29

Lord, just as the scripture promises. Amen. Amen.

44:36

Let's see here. Let's go to another question. We have

44:44

Ralph in Quebec City, Canada, or as I think they pronounce it,

44:50

Quebec. And I'm probably even butchering that. But Ralph says, when we are in everlasting glory, will we actually meet other believers that we know?

45:12

Wow, that's a big question. When we can only go to texts that tell us, we only know what the scripture tells us.

45:19

So the scripture says that we will be known as we're known. And it's important,

45:25

I think here too, and I don't want to obfuscate, but I do want to include this in the answer.

45:32

I think it's important that we make a distinction or make the distinction that when we die and go to be with the

45:42

Lord, that is not glorification. Glorification takes place at the second coming when the trumpet sounds, the dead in Christ are raised and we shall be raised up together with the

45:53

Lord in the air. So I think when as individual believers we can make that distinction, it helps us in our understanding a lot along the way.

46:06

Amen. Thank you, Ralph. Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and spreading the word about the program in Quebec, Canada.

46:16

And let's see, we have

46:21

Stuart in Long Island City, New York.

46:29

And Stuart says, I think sometimes that Amill and post -millennial

46:39

Christians make the error of rejecting the term rapture completely.

46:48

I understand we should reject eschatologically a secret rapture, but the word rapture means being caught up in the air.

46:58

And all biblically sound Christians, no matter what their eschatological view, believe that we will be caught up in the air at the last day.

47:13

And the rejection of the term rapture might unnecessarily lead people to wrongly believe that we are hyper -preterists.

47:23

Am I making sense? I think that what was that gentleman's name?

47:30

Stuart. Stuart, I think that is an excellent question, and that's an excellent point to make.

47:38

And it goes back to something that you spoke about just a few minutes ago,

47:44

Mr. Arnsen, when you talked about balance. We have to be balanced. It's like riding a bicycle.

47:51

If you lean too far one way or the other, you're going to fall over, right? So it's important to keep your feet on the pedals, to keep the sprocket turning, and to maintain balance.

48:03

And that, just like any other thing, that idea can be overblown and overused and overemphasized, which he is right.

48:15

To be raptured does mean to be caught up in the air, and that's exactly what the

48:20

Scripture says will take place with us as believers. But again, there has to be those qualifications and those distinctions identified so that we understand that we're not talking about a secret rapture, that we're not talking about a catching away of believers, as the premillennial dispensationalists teach, just to get us out of this world so that we don't have to endure what they call the tribulation, right?

48:53

So we have to maintain those distinctions. Amen. Amen.

49:00

Well, before we go on with any other listener questions,

49:06

I want to make sure that you bring up and highlight things that you most primarily want to discuss in regard to this theme.

49:19

Well, most of these questions have been geared toward heaven, so there's nothing wrong with that at all.

49:24

And they are important questions that the information that we glean from the

49:31

Scriptures is going to help these folks who are asking these questions. So I would say that everything's been completely relevant along the lines of this topic thus far, because we all, as believers, if you're born again, you're saved by the grace of God and you have the hope of heaven.

49:50

And how we maintain while we're here is what makes the difference.

49:57

And it's not about us holding on in our own strength or in our own power, but it's about us standing, as the old song says, on the promises of God.

50:10

Amen. And isn't it very important that we who are

50:20

Christians not extend the promise of heaven to people whose regeneration we are questioning?

50:34

And there are even Christians out there who are aghast, they're disturbed, they're angered that one ever would question someone's regeneration if they are verbally professing that they believe in Jesus Christ.

51:00

And of course, there are even some Reformed people that make that error of easy believism.

51:08

They're actually contradicting confessional Reformed Christianity.

51:14

But there are some out there who are accusing those of us who do do that as legalists and so on.

51:28

But we have to be very careful whom we offer the hope of heaven to, are we not?

51:34

Correct. Correct. The offer of the gospel is even in the

51:48

Calvinistic Reformed sense is misunderstood. We should offer the gospel, as the canons of Dort say, promiscuously.

51:55

We should offer the gospel to all people. But we should not make promises to unregenerate people that this is their hope.

52:03

Because the hope of heaven is the hope of the believer. It's the hope of the man, the woman, the boy, and the girl who has been born again by the

52:13

Spirit of God. And that hope is not for any other than those who have trusted and believed in the

52:21

Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. And you know, as Jesus said, you shall know a tree by its fruit.

52:30

And I think it could be very dangerous just to celebrate someone's salvation with them just because they utter words that make it appear that they are giving mental assent to Jesus Christ.

52:48

But we're going to our midway break right now. And if you have a question for Pastor Claude, you may submit it to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

52:57

As always, give us your first name at least. City and state and country of residence only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

53:07

So don't go away. We are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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James White here of Alpha and Omega Ministries, announcing that this

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September I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend

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I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron radio pre -pastor's luncheon at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville. Then, on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30

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p .m., I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the

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Bible is the Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.

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For more details on the free pastor's luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.

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That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.

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Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

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Dr. Joe Morecraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

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One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Morecraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

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Dr. Morecraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

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Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. Dr. Joe Morecraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism.

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Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

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Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

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Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

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that's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831, that's 678 -954 -7831.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

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podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We're dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a

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Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

01:02:18

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. I'm Dr.

01:02:30

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

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That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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Lindbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

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At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

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We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

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Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

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God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

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Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.

01:05:31

That's L -Y -N -Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

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It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast.

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The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. ...Iron

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and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to Claude Ramsey and our discussion on the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven, which is our theme today, before we return to that conversation,

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01:12:56

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Reformation Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, well, no matter where on the planet

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Earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church as I have done with many listeners spanning the globe in our audience.

01:13:18

So, if you're without a solid church home, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put

01:13:24

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send a question to Pastor Claude Ramsey of Reformation Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

01:13:37

We are discussing the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:13:44

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:13:49

USA. And something just occurred to me when we were talking about the eschatological view that you and I disagree with, which involves a secret rapture.

01:14:13

I have witnessed over the years of being a Christian, I got saved in the mid -1980s, and a lot of our dispensationalist brethren have replaced in their evangelism the promise of heaven to those who are saved and the warning of damnation for eternity in hell for those who are rebels, unrepentant rebels against Christ and his church and his gospel.

01:14:49

They've replaced that with the joy of being raptured, if you are a believer, and in their understanding, terror of being left behind and not being raptured.

01:15:05

That's a very improper and dangerous methodology of evangelism.

01:15:12

And do you agree with what I just said? Have you witnessed that? Oh yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

01:15:19

And that brings us right back to the very start of this show today.

01:15:26

They are preaching escapism rather than anticipation and longing.

01:15:35

They're proclaiming an escape from this life and from the troubles of this life, which in reality, the

01:15:44

Scriptures never nor anywhere promise that there will be a reprieve from troubles and trials.

01:15:53

Matter of fact, the Apostle Paul said, if any man lives godly in Christ Jesus, he will suffer persecution.

01:16:00

Persecution is a part of our lives because of the curse. There's no escaping that.

01:16:09

Amen. And it really grossly diminishes both the indescribable glory and the precious hope of heaven and the actual terror that should be struck in the hearts of men in regard to the very thought of being damned to hell.

01:16:40

Being left behind and not being raptured is really, in some sense, a second chance for salvation teaching, isn't it?

01:16:53

Yeah, it is. Well, tell us some more about your passion for this subject.

01:17:06

You earlier could barely hold yourself back from weeping during your descriptions.

01:17:15

If you could just tell us more about this very hope of heaven that we who are truly the children of God can and should and do have, and those who have not yet come to Christ may have, if they bow the knee in repentance to him.

01:17:37

Absolutely. Absolutely. So let me compose myself here for just a moment, because it's the realness of troubles and trials in contrast with the joy and the blessing and the benefit of going to be with the

01:18:05

Lord. And I think when we talk about heaven, a lot of times the central thrust of the message when we talk about heaven is about the gates of pearl, the streets of gold, and all of these things.

01:18:25

But I think unintentionally, I think we tend to forget about some of the key phrases, particularly in the book of Revelation when we read about the new heavens and the new earth, that says that the

01:18:39

Lamb of God will be the light of the city. For consider it this way, we have in our homes, we decorate our homes in a certain way that for me, we decorate the way that April wants it to be decorated.

01:19:00

And I just say, yes, dear. But the decorations and the accoutrements, if you would have it, of the things around us are not enjoyed in the dark.

01:19:14

Without the light, the accoutrements, the adornments, so on and so forth, without the light, those things mean little to nothing.

01:19:27

And it is not that we long to walk on streets like pure gold or to see the river of water clear as a crystal, but our hope of heaven is

01:19:41

Jesus Christ. And that's it. And it may sound,

01:19:48

I don't want to come across as sounding hateful, but Mr.

01:19:54

Arnzen, truly, I don't give a rip about the accoutrements. I care that my

01:20:01

Savior is there and that I, for all of eternity, will be with him.

01:20:11

Whoops, sorry about that. Hallelujah. That's okay. Amen.

01:20:18

And I, as you likely do, have loved ones who have passed on from this earth.

01:20:33

And thankfully, I know with great confidence that my mother,

01:20:47

Virginia, is in glory with Christ for eternity. She was a

01:20:55

Roman Catholic for all of her 70 years, and thankfully when she was on her deathbed the last six weeks of her life, after she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, she was trusting in Christ alone for her salvation.

01:21:16

She abandoned prayer to Mary and the saints. Praise the Lord. She was clearly trusting in the finished work of Christ alone for her salvation.

01:21:27

And my precious late wife, Julie, was a believer, and I can expect to see her in heaven one day.

01:21:39

Amen. But the reason I'm bringing this up is there is a question from Trudy in Albuquerque, New Mexico, about your understanding of the great cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12.

01:21:59

And there have been people, Christians, who have offered me comfort by saying things like, your wife is looking down from heaven at your pastor's luncheons that you carry on in her memory and in tribute of her because they were her idea back in the 1990s.

01:22:31

And she's looking down from heaven and smiling, and I think that's a well -meant sentiment. But I have responded to them, well, she's gazing into the eyes of her

01:22:46

Savior. I seriously doubt she's going to tear her eyes away from Christ to look down at a cafeteria in a church here on earth to witness what's happening there.

01:23:05

Now, am I being too harsh with those against those who have that sentiment?

01:23:12

First of all, what is your understanding of the great cloud of witnesses? Okay, so just going at the text, the text says, therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which does so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

01:23:34

So it's important, and it's a cliche term, but when you see the word therefore leading in any sentence, you've got to ask, what is it there for, right?

01:23:46

So Hebrews chapter 12, verse 1, speaking of the great cloud of witnesses, is coming off the heels of Hebrews chapter 11, which lists out what is referred to by many is referred to as the hall of faith, right?

01:24:01

Of faithful men and women throughout history who have been used mightily of the

01:24:08

Lord and many, again, who realized and who understood that we are pilgrims and strangers here and we're just passing through.

01:24:20

Now, there are some, it's said, even in Hebrews 11, that they did not receive the promise, right, but they saw it afar off.

01:24:27

And that's where, that's kind of where we are. This cloud of witnesses, and that's one of the beauties of considering that even though we may become weary as pilgrims on our way to heaven, that we are not alone, that there have been innumerable amounts of men and women and boys and girls alike who have lived and died in the faith with this same anticipation, with this same hope that we're talking about today.

01:25:05

And that is what that's talking about there in Hebrews 12, one, surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses.

01:25:13

And to move to your part of the question there, is that a little bit, what you were saying, do you feel like that's a little bit too harsh or not?

01:25:23

I don't think it's too harsh to make that explanation and to make that qualification when folks say that, but there's times and places for us to correct folks on that.

01:25:35

And obviously, like you said, they are well -intentioned. They are just trying to courage and comfort you in those things.

01:25:43

And for myself personally, there's plenty that people say that I want to immediately fall into doctrinal communication mode and want to lay out a big exegesis of why what they're saying is not correct.

01:26:03

But most of the time, it's good just to say, thank you, and I appreciate your kind words, because we truly do.

01:26:12

We truly understand that folks are well -intentioned most of the time when they say things like that.

01:26:19

So therefore, to summarize your answer to Trudy and Albuquerque, you don't think that those in the afterlife, in paradise with Christ right now, are watching what we're doing down here.

01:26:38

I mean, to me, that would actually require that they are experiencing some kind of negative thoughts, because when you have any view of earth, not everything is hunky -dory down here.

01:27:01

That's right. And the way that the Roman Catholics attempt to rob

01:27:08

Mary, of course, they don't view it this way, but rob Mary of the utter bliss, indescribable joy that she is experiencing in heaven, they have loaded upon her the burdens of the prayers of millions of people, as if she hears these prayers, weeps over them, and can in any way answer them.

01:27:37

I mean, this is really necromancy, and idolatry, and so on.

01:27:44

But according to your own understanding and beliefs, you don't believe that those in paradise with Christ are actually witnessing everything their loved ones are doing down here on earth.

01:27:59

Correct. I agree. I agree with your sentiment on that, with your statement on that, and I do so because of what the

01:28:07

Scripture says. The Scripture tells us that, and I know

01:28:14

I've made a lot of references to the book of Revelation, but the book of Revelation truly does give us a picture of what is going on.

01:28:24

If, in fact, that the saints in heaven see and recognize anything, it has nothing to do with this earth.

01:28:39

The saints that have gone on before are awaiting the final judgment of God, and they rejoice.

01:28:50

And again, this is a thing that will get many folks in trouble by saying this.

01:28:59

And I'm going to say it as plain as I can because I don't want to beat around the bush about it. But the saints that have gone on before are awaiting the judgment and the wrath of God on the ungodly and the unrighteous at the final day.

01:29:14

And what they see is the judgment of God poured out on the ungodly and the unrighteousness of men, ungodliness and the unrighteousness of men.

01:29:27

And they rejoice in the justice of God himself.

01:29:36

Again, it has nothing to do with heaven, or I'm sorry, with earth here, because this earth is passing away.

01:29:46

It is going to be remade. There's going to be a new heaven and a new earth.

01:29:53

So long story short, no. I don't think that the

01:29:59

Scriptures give evidence that folks in heaven look down on us on earth.

01:30:07

Okay, we've got Cal in Peachtree City, Georgia, who says,

01:30:13

Somebody posed a question to me that I was unable to answer. If the angels in heaven at one time rebelled against God and became fallen angels and were cast out of heaven, could that be something that happens again?

01:30:34

Cal, that is a thought -provoking question. That is a good question.

01:30:42

And my answer is no. No, because what occurred in that instance was a once -and -done deal.

01:31:00

If anybody is rebelling against God, it's us. It's not the angels. It's humans who are rebelling in our hearts and in our minds against the

01:31:11

Lord and his holiness and his righteousness. Not in heaven, though, not in paradise. Correct, correct, correct.

01:31:18

No, I'm just talking about here on earth. Right. Yeah. Well, very good answer to a very good question.

01:31:29

And heaven at this time, or paradise, was not inhabited by humans at this point, correct?

01:31:40

Correct. And so, therefore, it could not be this wonderful place freed from sin that we all long to be present in if there was this possibility of angels around us turning against the

01:32:00

Lord and being engaged in battle again as the war in heaven took place before humans existed.

01:32:11

Correct. And when you're a pastor, obviously, what is the most common thing that you hear asked from not only congregants, but perhaps even just lost people that engage in conversation with you about heaven?

01:32:39

Mm -hmm. While you're thinking of that, I'm going to give our email address again.

01:32:45

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:32:51

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. If you live outside the

01:32:58

USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. I would say maybe a question that is asked, maybe not that I've necessarily been asked regularly, but it's one that I read about and I hear about regularly, is that, is there anything in heaven made by human hands?

01:33:30

Right? It's kind of one of those questions of speculation. And the answer is, yes, there are.

01:33:40

My late wife Trillia's carrot cake is one of them. It was the most delicious carrot cake

01:33:46

I've ever had. I've never had any close second to that carrot cake, but anyway,

01:33:51

I'm sorry. That's okay. That's good.

01:33:58

But yeah, so I would say just to that little question, I would say, you know, yes, the scars in Jesus' hands and his feet, because it's significant that we understand that Christ, fully

01:34:14

God, fully man, truly God, truly man, kept the law of God perfectly in the flesh.

01:34:21

And in the flesh, he suffered for our sins. As a man, he suffered for our sins.

01:34:29

As God, he bore the wrath of God on the cross for us. It's not something that just anyone could do.

01:34:39

It's only the son of God was capable of accomplishing the work of redemption and salvation.

01:34:47

And it's because he was truly God and truly man. And when Jesus was crucified and when he was buried and when he arose again, he arose.

01:34:59

He is the one, the only one up to this point, who has a glorified body.

01:35:09

And again, that is another thing that points us to the thrust of this focus here today.

01:35:16

The weary pilgrim's hope of heaven is that Jesus Christ defeated death and that through death, the book of Hebrews says, he destroyed him who has the power of death.

01:35:28

And therefore, because of his death, burial, and resurrection, because of his being truly

01:35:36

God and truly man, weary pilgrims have hope that there is more to life than what we see here and now.

01:35:49

And as far as the specific way that you phrased the question, though, as far as things made with human hands,

01:35:57

I mean, is there going to be a blacksmith in heaven? And of course, actually, what

01:36:04

I am asking really is a perfect segue to a question from a listener.

01:36:12

Okay. Claudio, or Claudio, as it's sometimes pronounced, in Tyler, Texas, wants to know, can you please explain the difference between the new heaven and the new earth?

01:36:25

Are they places that will exist simultaneously, or will a new earth replace heaven?

01:36:35

Because the reason why I said that was a segue is that maybe in the new earth, there will be people building things without the sweat and the pain that was a curse of the fall with thorns and thistles.

01:36:50

But I'm assuming there'd be nothing wrong with joyful labor going on in the new earth, but you can explain yourself what you think.

01:36:58

That's true. So, Claudio, that's a great question. And let me say this.

01:37:04

I appreciate your name. Once I was in Venezuela for a week, and that's what they called me in Venezuela, Claudio.

01:37:13

Oh, that's right. I forgot. That's your name. Your English name is Claude. Yeah. But that's what they called me there.

01:37:22

So I love the name. But to the question, I would, again,

01:37:31

I am not as articulate and educated as many folks that are going to be on this program.

01:37:39

But I would say this, that in a biblical understanding, and particularly when you go to historically

01:37:50

Reformed folks talking about this, I think the doctrine and the idea of the new heavens and the new earth really boils down to this, that right now, as humans, all that we know is earth.

01:38:11

And right now, because we're finite, God, being finite,

01:38:17

He knows both heaven and earth. Now, we do know that the

01:38:23

Scriptures tell us that Jesus ascended and He sits at the right hand of the throne of God wherever He lives and He makes intercession for us.

01:38:30

Therefore, that is where we belong to be. Now, on the day of judgment when everything ends, the

01:38:38

Scripture tells us that the new heavens and the new earth come down out of heaven or the sky, right, so to speak.

01:38:45

So in that, I think for my articulation of that idea would be to say this, that earth doesn't become heaven, but heaven overtakes the earth in the reality of the new creation, because that's what it's talking about.

01:39:10

So we see the new creation. So we see heaven overtaking the earth.

01:39:18

But will it be a place where God's people are roaming around on grass and drinking from cool, clean streams and climbing trees and picking fruit and, you know, doing things that are constantly displayed on a

01:39:40

Jehovah's Witness pamphlet? But that part of it might be true of the, you know, enjoying a perfect earth.

01:39:51

I don't know, but if you could. Yeah, but again, the

01:40:00

Scriptures don't manifestly and say literally that's what's going to happen.

01:40:09

Again, for me, the focus is purely on being with the

01:40:16

Lord. And that's it. And I'm a very simplistic man. So other people like to delve into the speculation and the idea, but I just keep it simple and say my focus is going to be on the

01:40:32

Lord. And we're going to have glorified. One thing we do know is that we'll have glorified bodies.

01:40:38

So we'll be able to perfectly worship God, where we cannot do that here.

01:40:46

And of course, there's another thing that comes up about the very thing that you mentioned that we don't know emphatically as a given fact in the

01:40:59

Scripture. But we can assume, although we don't know this, that no matter how old you are or no matter how young you are when you pass from this earth, when you have a glorified body in heaven, you will likely be at some age when—I don't know if I'm phrasing this correctly— you will be possibly like young adults, everyone in glory.

01:41:41

I don't think there'll be any hunched -over elderly people walking with crutches, obviously.

01:41:47

But at the same time, a baby who dies is going to—

01:41:53

I'm assuming if those from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation are worshiping the

01:42:03

Lamb, that involves conscious thought and understanding and so on.

01:42:11

So what are your thoughts on that? That may be just trivia, but what are your thoughts on that?

01:42:18

Well, if anything, one thing I hope for myself—this is a bit selfish, but I hope

01:42:26

I still have my whiskers. Well, actually, if you're in glory with Christ, you're not going to care whether you have whiskers.

01:42:42

That's true. That's true. This reminded me of my friend

01:42:49

Ed Moore, who's pastor of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens. He told me years ago he was at a

01:42:56

Bible conference, and during a Q &A, somebody in the audience said,

01:43:02

Will I see my mother in heaven? And the conference speaker responded,

01:43:08

If you get to heaven, you'll be just as happy to see my mother. Oh, man.

01:43:20

But we have to go to our final break right now, and if you want to ask a question, submit it immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:43:30

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least. City and state and country of residence.

01:43:36

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors. This is

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

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01:52:40

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And we're now back with the final segment of our conversation today with Pastor Claude Stauffer of Reformata Baptist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee.

01:54:26

And if you could, Pastor Claude, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today when it comes to the weary pilgrim's hope of heaven.

01:54:38

I would summarize it by simply saying that, by quoting Scripture, Jesus said in Matthew 6, verses 19 -21,

01:54:48

Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroys and where thieves break in and steal.

01:54:55

But lay up for yourself treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

01:55:02

And Jesus said, for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. So, in summary, it was mentioned at the beginning of our conversation today that the hope of eternal life, the hope of heaven, the anticipation of glorification does not belong to anyone but to the believer.

01:55:27

Now, that sounds harsh, but the good news is simply this, that you, too, can be saved.

01:55:35

Christ died for our sins. He was buried, and on the third day,

01:55:41

He arose. And by trusting and leaning and casting yourself wholly on the finished work of Christ, you can be saved.

01:55:52

You can know the forgiveness of sins through Christ, and you can know the hope of eternal life that comes by and through a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

01:56:06

Hallelujah. And once again, the website, the new website, for Reformation Baptist Church of Knoxville, Tennessee, is

01:56:17

ReformationBaptistChurch .org.

01:56:29

And don't forget about the upcoming conference that's being held in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

01:56:39

A different church is hosting that. That's where Pastor Jeffrey Rice of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church of Tullahoma is pastoring.

01:56:52

That conference is something that everyone who is able to get to Tullahoma, Tennessee, by train, plane, or automobile,

01:57:06

September 12th through the 13th. And the speakers include

01:57:12

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Andrew Rappaport of Striving for Eternity Ministries, and Michael Schultz, and Jeremiah Nortier, and Keith Foskey, and Jonathan Burris, and Jeffrey Rice, as I mentioned before, who is the pastor of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church.

01:57:35

And my guest for the last two hours, Claude Ramsey.

01:57:43

And Pastor Claude, do you once again have that website for those interested in registering for the

01:57:51

Roadmap to Revival conference, September 12th through 13th at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tullahoma, Tennessee?

01:57:59

Yes, the website is crbctullahoma .org.

01:58:08

crbctullahoma .org. And I would like to, as well, right before we close out here, just to say thank you again,

01:58:16

Mr. Arnson, for letting me be on with you. I thank God for our friendship that he is allowing to grow.

01:58:24

And I just got to say this, if I was a cat, I'm so happy to be on here with you.

01:58:30

If I was a cat, I'd purr right now. Only a

01:58:35

Southerner could get away with saying that. By the way, how do our listeners watch the

01:58:45

Here I Stand Theology Podcast? Go to YouTube, Here I Stand Theology Podcast on YouTube.

01:58:53

And you can also listen to audio anywhere you get your pods.

01:58:59

But I'll be honest, I am like a year behind in putting anything on the audio podcast page.

01:59:06

But I'm going to try to catch up at some point. Well, I'm so disappointed that you and I are not going to be meeting and greeting and fellowshipping with each other at the

01:59:15

G3 conference. This has been canceled, but I hope that there'll be many other opportunities for us to share fellowship face -to -face.

01:59:24

I hope everybody listening has a safe and happy and joyful and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

01:59:32

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.