Grace Walk Experience - Part 2 — Steve McVey

We're back with Dr. Steve McVeigh today, he's with us. We're talking about an issue of grace, grace walking, he's got a book called The Grace Walk Experience.

Steve, what are we going to talk about on the show today? We're going to talk about how our troubles can be the best thing that ever happened to us. This is a program for people who have had or are having problems in their life because we're going to discuss how God can use those problems to accomplish a wonderful purpose.

Good things can happen. Good things can happen in the midst of our troubles.

Steve, I believe it, but you know what, often we need to see how that can take place. I pray that today you'll stay with us and find the grace of God in the middle of our troubles. We are back with Dr. Steve McVeigh today, talking about a book that he really believes, and I agree with him, is going to make a difference in some people's lives, a huge difference.

It's called The Grace Walk Experience. That's really what we're focusing on this week. You're with me for a week here, Steve.

I'm always glad to be here with you for a week. Well, thank you. We have a good time together.

What I forgot to do yesterday was tell people where you're from. You live somewhere in the Tampa Bay area, I understand now. I do. We live down in the Tampa Bay area.

Our ministry was located in Atlanta, Georgia, and we lived there for a lot of years. People ask me, well, why did you move to Florida? I said, well, because I could. My kids are grown, and as long as there's an airport for me to get into and fly out and a word processor nearby where I can keep writing, it doesn't matter where I live.

So we moved to sunny Florida just because we enjoy that area. Because you could. That's right. Because you enjoy the area. That's right.

Well, that is so cool. Well, good for you. And you have four children.

I have four children, two sons and two daughters. As I said, they're all grown. We have three grandchildren, and we're loving life. My wife, Melanie, travels with me most all of the time, 95 of the time she travels with me, and we do ministry just everywhere.

In fact, I mentioned our website late yesterday. Let me mention our website again, gracewalk .org. Folks can visit our website, and there learn about what we're doing in missions. We're reaching out into China, Korea, Japan, all over Latin America.

GraceWalkMexico for Spanish-speaking people. We have a Spanish website, Comandobajosugracia .com, and they can visit that and just find out. People are hungry for this message, Willard. That's what it is.

People are hungry. My first book, Grace Walk, it will go into its 10th language this summer, Danish will be language number 10. That amazes me, and I don't say that to boast. I say that to say, to evidence the fact, people want to know the truth of how to experience freedom and how to enjoy their faith.

It's about enjoying their walk with God, isn't it? It's about enjoying it. Jesus said, I've come to give you life so that you'll have it abundantly, but man, if you look at folks in the average church, it doesn't exactly look like they're enjoying an abundant lifestyle, and I didn't for a lot of years.

I was sincere, but I saw a great gap between the joy that Jesus said he wanted to leave us. He said, my joy I give to you. I pray that my joy will be fulfilled in them. Well, I didn't see that in my own life.

I was sincere, but I was driving myself into the ground, trying to do something that never would have succeeded.

The Exchange Life and Christ's Indwelling Life

Our walk in Jesus starts off when we just simply embrace him, invite him into our lives and literally receive his life. It's an exchange life. I like what it says in Galatians, I think it's chapter two, verse 20, where it says, it's no longer I that live, but Christ who lives in me, and the life I now live by faith in him who loved me and gave his life.

That's one of the first verses that I learned as a five-year-old.

Yeah, and what a wonderful verse, and that's right. What I call the grace walk is what Hudson Taylor is the one that coined that phrase, the exchange life, and that's a good phrase, the exchange life.

It's just, as you said in Galatians 2 .20, it's the idea and understanding that when we receive the life of Christ, he takes the old person that we were and he replaces that with his life, so it's an exchange life.

And it isn't something we always recognize. We get distracted from it so easily in our religious walk, in our wanting to serve God and wanting to do better and so on.

We don't know what we have, and that's the big thing. We don't really understand sometimes what we have. I remember some time ago, I said we lived in Florida, and one day I was looking for my sunglasses, and I said, I thought I left them in here on my desk at home, and I looked in there, and my sunglasses weren't there.

I went back in the living room and looked by my recliner. They weren't there. I looked where I keep my keys. They weren't there. I went into the bedroom, and I'm becoming more and more frustrated. Where are my sunglasses?

I'm looking everywhere. I can't find them. Where did I put those things? And I think, well, could I have carried them into the bathroom? So I go into the bathroom and look in there, and I glance up into the mirror, and there they are right on top of my head where I've pulled them back off my eyes.

I'm looking everywhere trying to find something that I'm carrying around with me. And I thought, well, you know, that's a pretty good example of what I did as a Christian for a lot of years. A lot of us are trying to find something that we already have.

We're trying to find a victory that's already ours in Jesus Christ. That's why I wrote The Grace Walk Experience, to present these eight truths in this book that will enable people to understand what we're looking for, we already have in the person of Jesus.

All we need to know is how to appropriate by faith the reality of the indwelling Christ, and we'll experience what God wants us to know and enjoy. That's good.

Okay. And yesterday on the program, as we were concluding the program, you promised you were going to tell us something today on the show about this experience, because I think the chapter we're going into today is the whole area of difficulties that come into our lives.

Some of the most difficult things that come into our lives can be actually a doorway, I think, of God working something of himself into us.

That's right. Yesterday in Chapter 1, we talked about improving your behavior will not give you victory in the Christian life. That's the first truth people need to know to be set free.

So that all of the do's and don'ts and keeping all the do's and not doing all the don'ts will not give you victory.

You can still be miserable. You can do all the do's and don't all the don'ts, and you'll still be miserable, because improving your behavior is not the key to enjoying the Christian walk. Understanding who you are in Christ is the key.

Problems as a Doorway to Surrender

And today, Chapter 2, is this. Problems in your life could be the best thing that could happen to you. Problems in your life could be the best thing that could happen to you. And I promised yesterday that I would tell you a short story, and I've told it before.

Some that may have seen me here in years past might have heard this. I'm going to give the short version, but it was on October 6, 1990, that I was lying on my face in my office. I'd been a pastor at that time for 29 years, and I was lying there crying at 2 in the morning.

And I said, God, if this is ministry, I want out. I said, in fact, if this is the Christian life, it's overrated. It's great for getting you into heaven, but in the meantime, what's the big deal? I don't see the abundance.

I don't see the victory. I look at the lives of people in the New Testament. There's a far, far cry between my lifestyle and theirs, a big gap between the two. And I was lying on my face crying and saying, God, what are you doing?

Are you sadistic? And the reason I was doing that is because he had put me in a church that had been declining. I was a local church pastor. It had been declining for five years, but everywhere I had ever served, churches had grown.

And after a year in that church, the next day on a Sunday was to be my first anniversary date. But instead of growing, the church had continued to decline. And I had become more and more discouraged until I finally became depressed.

On October 6, 1990, I reached a place of despair. And I was lying there, and I said, God, if this is it, if this is all there is to it, I don't get it. I don't understand what the big deal is. And I came to the end of myself that night, Willard, and I began to pray and just systematically in my prayer, empty myself of everything that had given me a sense of value, everything that had given me a sense of purpose and meaning.

And it's like I... And the things that you'd kind of relied on, things that you had put value in or something like that. That's exactly it.

I said, I prayed like this. I said things like, Lord, from now on, I give up. I acknowledge that my background in ministry means nothing. My education, it has no value in terms of me depending on that.

My abilities or gifts that I might have, that means nothing. Everything I've been clinging to to try to make my life work, I acknowledge that that's not where life is to be found, and I empty myself. And I come to the place, Father, where I say that I quit my ministry.

This is your ministry. It's called absolute surrender, taking your hands off your own life. I quit my ministry. This is your ministry. And if you want to bless and cause it to succeed, fine. But if it continues to fail, then it's your responsibility.

And in fact, I said, Lord, in terms of me trying to live the Christian life, I've lived on this motivation, condemnation, rededication cycle for 29 years, and I'm tired of it. I'm going to quit trying.

I said, I'm not going to rededicate myself to try harder anymore because it doesn't work. And you know, Willard, I don't want to breeze right past that because that is a truth a lot of folks don't get.

Rededicating yourself to try harder to live for God won't work.

So like the January 1st thing of making new commitments for the coming year, making my pledge for the new year, this is not the way. And we do that week by week often as Christians. Sunday, we go to church and say, whoa, I really blew it last week, but I really don't want to.

I'm going to do better this week. I'm going to try harder.

I'll try harder next week. We do it all the time. But the key to victory in the Christian walk is not trying harder. The key is entrusting Him. Let me tell you what God wants to bring us to. And this is just right in this second chapter.

And that is problems may be the best thing that could ever happen to us. The place we need to come to is where we say, you know what, Father, I'm going to quit trying. I'm not going to read. Listen, we're not called to rededicate ourselves to Him.

The Bible tells us we're to renounce the self-life here. Jesus speaking, said, If any man will follow me, let him take up his cross, dedicate himself and follow me and follow me. Is that what he said?

No, no, he didn't say. Did you catch it? Those watching? I'll say the verse again. So you're sharp. You caught it. If any man will come after me, let him dedicate himself, take up his cross and follow me.

That's not what he said. What did he say? Lay down his life. That's right. Let him deny himself. Yeah, lay down his life. Just lay down your life. You don't you don't rededicate self. You renounce self.

Weakness, Dependence, and the Failure of Self-Effort

And the thing that God does with problems is he uses those problems to become our best friend. Second chapter, your problems may be the best thing that could ever happen to you, that have ever happened to you, because problems become a messenger that God uses to bring us to the end of ourselves and to cause us once and for all to realize that we don't have to try harder.

Instead, we just need to give up. I used to pray prayers like this. Lord, make me stronger, make me stronger. Oh, God, please make me stronger. When in reality, my problem was I was already too strong.

You see, we don't get strong enough for God to use, we have to get weak enough for God to use us.

It's OK. Keep going, because that's there's a toughie for us.

And see what we do. And this is the lie of modern religion in the Christian church, in the Christian church. There is there's a false bill of goods being sold to us that we're believing the lie. And if truth sets you free, you know what lies will do to you.

Lies will keep you in bondage. And the enemy of our souls is not stupid. He's not going to give us lies that are so blatantly obvious that we'll reject them. He's going to make them sound religious and make them sound right.

So we fall for them. And here is the lie. The lie is the lie is, well, you just need to suck it up and promise, you know, try harder and promise God you'll do better. Go out all God. How many times have you heard this?

God just expects your best. All he wants is that you do your best and try your hardest. Those are all lies, all lies. And they'll keep you in bondage. And I want to say to those that are watching from it, if you believe the things I've just said are not lies, then why don't they work for you?

And I'm bold enough to say I tried for 29 years. Nobody could have been more sincere than I was. And I think it's accurate to say if trying and sincerity in our efforts to live the Christian life was the key, then we'd be living in the millennial reign right now, wouldn't we?

Because God knows we've all tried. But we don't need to try.

We need to trust. Steve, you're flying in the face of some pretty important people. I mean, if I'm hearing you, so shoot me down if I'm wrong, if I'm saying something wrong here. But our excellence is all God's asking for.

I mean, there is so much excellence we talk about in the church today. OK, keep going. I'm not. I'm not. No, I'm just saying, you know, as long as we become excellent. Oh, yeah, that's what we're told.

I mean, I'm serious. You know, we're striving towards excellence. That's right. Everywhere in the church today.

That's right. And let me give you a verse that counteracts this idea that we must strive toward excellence through our performance. It is Ephesians. You are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God in advance has ordained that you should walk in them.

You are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus. That's Ephesians 2 10. The word workmanship there, the Greek word poema means poem, a piece of poetry. You are already excellent. I am already excellent.

We don't strive to become excellent by our performance. But instead, we are to understand that God has created us in his image and that in the person of Jesus and the finished work of the cross, we have been given the good housekeeping seal of approval by God himself saying a one excellent.

And what we need is to understand who we already are and live from out of that. And then our behavior, our activity will reflect the excellence that resides within us. That's very different from what we hear in the modern church, which is you become excellent.

By the things you do, by raising the bar and improving your standard of excellence. Do you hear the difference between the two?

I hear what you're saying. Because it's not that. I mean, I love what you said when he made us and he put a stamp of approval on us. We are made accepted in the beloved.

Listen, I love this. In fact, Genesis, when God made something, every time God made something, it says he looked at it and he said, it's good. It's good. It's good. And when he looked at Jesus at his baptism, the father watching couldn't contain himself.

And he says, I'm not just going to say it. I want them to hear it. And so he pulled back, separated the curtain and he leaned over and said, this is my son and I'm well pleased. And everybody heard it.

And that's what he does with you and me. We don't have to jump through the hoops to try to gain his approval. We must understand that in Jesus Christ, it's all been done. And we are as acceptable to God right now as Christ is.

And what our father wants to do is take us off of this insanity, out of this insanity of trying and trying and trying to do something for ourselves that in reality, he's already done on our behalf.

As though we're trying to go and improve on something he's done better than we'll ever be able to do.

And he uses problems to cause us to realize it's not going to work no matter how hard you try.

But you know, when you talk about the approval that God has for Jesus, you know, that seeing that. Betty came to me one day about a year and a half ago or so. Maybe it's even two years ago. And she said, Willard, I was looking at the book of John, reading it, reading it and reading it because God wanted to talk to me.

She said, I wasn't, I'm trying to absorb it. You know, you know, sometimes, you know, that God's saying you just, you're just, and she was just at one of those times in her life where she just, and out of it, out of the blue, she said as she was reading that again in the book of John, she realized that the father spoke that of Jesus before he did one lick of work.

And we, you know, it wasn't after he had done all these things and died on the cross.

And that was very powerful to me because it blew me away because I'd never observed that.

And I thought, Betty, you know what? You just got a revelation there from the father. That's awesome.

Therefore, then the work and the ministry of Jesus flowed out of the acceptance that he already had from his father, didn't it? It did. And that's right. And that's the way we were to be. Yeah. But we get it so backwards in the church.

And we're saying, and listen, I'm not being critical of the modern church because I want to make sure those watching know I was a local church pastor for 21 years. And I still speak 98 of the time in local churches.

I'm not trying to, to, to, to be critical of the church. I love the church of Jesus Christ. And I speak as a fellow traveler in this journey within the church to say, let's, let's embrace and realize the truth.

And here's an important question. I think we all need to ask ourselves and honestly answer. Am I willing to change the way I see things? Am I willing to, to, to come to a place? Am I still teachable? And am I willing to say, you know what?

What I've always believed is wrong and what my church teaches me is wrong. What I preached or taught as a pastor is wrong. I'm willing to be changed.

Renewing the Mind and Seeing Union with Christ

My struggle, Steve, is that I fall back into that myself. I mean, I know what you're saying is true. I know that that's what the Bible speaks about. That I'm seated in Christ in heavenly places today.

Colossians 3 chapter or chapter 3 verses 1 or yeah, 1, 2, 3, 4. And it says, I'm looking down from that place of sitting on the throne in Jesus. And I don't see my world that way when I know it's true.

Okay. Because I get caught again in seeing myself from a different point of view. And I've got to get my refocusing done.

It's a matter of renewing our minds. And that mind renewal is an ongoing everyday thing with us. Because most of us, especially those of us who've grown up in the church, we've been so programmed by the teaching that we receive to think that it's all about us and what we do.

I know. Yeah. That to reverse that and say, no, it's about him or what he's already done. That takes some.

Can I, I'm going to throw something else out, Steve, just in view of what you said. I don't know that it's always that you have to have been in a church background. That's a good point. It really comes from the garden of Eden.

Because it comes out of our human nature is used by the enemy of our souls to reach it. Because there's something in us that feels we can improve ourselves. There's something in our very nature. So the way we heard it, if we grew up in a church, we heard that because it came out of human nature.

That's a good point. If it comes, I've seen people that have never had no church background, get born again, get saved, receive Jesus by faith. And, you know, shortly thereafter, they get caught in this themselves because we're all prone to it.

I think it's, we're prone. Well, that's right.

It's something that's built into us. All the way back in the garden of Eden, as soon as Adam and Eve sinned, and they saw their, what they perceived to be a deficiency, what did they do? They went out and by their own efforts, they took leaves and made covers for themselves and trying to make themselves presentable by what they did.

And you're right. You're right. We're born hardwired with that when we're born into Adam. I think so. But when we come into Christ, it's a whole, it turns everything upside down. If I live out of Christ, I won't be there.

Anyway, I need to take a little break and we'll come back right after this. We're talking to Steve McVeigh. The book is The Grace Walk Experience. You can get it from him at his website. And we get a number, an address on the screen.

You can go there as well. We'll take a break and be right back with Steve right after this. We're back with Dr. Steve McVeigh. And we're talking about some of the subject matter in this book, which is The Grace Walk Experience, is how do you live out?

This is really what it's all about. How do you live out and enjoy your life the way God intends for you to do it?

It is eight truths that, I'll be so bold just to say, eight truths that may well transform your life. And I say that from my own experience. And not only because my life has been transformed by understanding these eight truths, but I get email from people all over the world who have said, wow, I went through this and my life was transformed.

By the way, can I say this? Something we didn't mention. I also have video and audio teachings to go along with this. Okay. So somebody will find them on the website. Absolutely. A lot of this is being used in small groups.

I've got eight 30-minute teachings, video teachings that go along with each of these sessions. Gracewalk .org. How's that for a shameless plug?

That's a great one. I'm okay with that. But yesterday we talked about the reality that, you know, your behavior, doing right and wrong things doesn't make you get any more victorious. I mean, we dealt with that yesterday.

That's right. Today, we're talking about the fact that difficult things may come. God will use tough things in your life. I mean, I forget how you actually put that in a statement.

Problems may be the best thing that could ever happen to you. That's right. That's right. Problems may be the best thing that could ever happen to you. Right. That's how you put it down. Let me give you a verse.

Let's go there. Second Corinthians, I mean, first Corinthians chapter one, verse eight. Well, let me preface reading the verse. Let me tease this a little bit before I read it in the verse. I love to say things that people say, that's wrong.

I don't agree with that. Then show it to them in the Bible. Because here's a point I want to make, kind of parenthetically, Willard. Some of the things we believe, we have heard them said so many times that

We believe they're true. We think they're true just because we've heard it so many times. We think it's true because we grew up hearing it. Some things people think are in the Bible. You find out later, Benjamin Franklin said, things like, God help those who help themselves.

People think they're in the Bible. I was going to say, you mean that's not in the Bible? I've heard that so many times.

Things that we think are biblical that are so not biblical, but we've heard it so many times. We think it's from the Bible. Now, one of the things that we've all heard many times in our lives, and we're talking about how problems can become your best friend, be the best thing that ever happened to you.

One of the things we've all heard is God will never put a burden on you greater than you can bear. We've all heard it. I've said it before I knew better. I used to teach it. I used to say it. I believed it.

But I'm going to tell you now, don't get mad at me. Because I'm going to show you this in the Bible. I don't, let me make the statement again. God will not put any burdens on you greater than you can bear.

I'm here to tell you that's a lie. God will put burdens on you greater than you can bear. Now, I know every Sunday school teacher in Canada is looking at this saying, wait a minute, I don't agree with that.

What about 1 Corinthians 10, 13? Exactly. God will not allow you to be tempted above that which you're able. I am not talking about temptation to sin. That verse does say that God will not allow you to be tempted to sin to an extent beyond that which you can resist.

But he will, with the temptation, make a way of escape, the verse says.

So in other words, there is a way out when you're tempted. There's always a way out.

You can always say no. And the way out is always the same as Jesus, by the way. Oh, it's Jesus. The way is always, he is the way. I am the way. So he says, God will not allow you to be tempted, tested, tempted to sin, tested in the area of sin more than you can bear.

But he'll always make a way of escape. And the way is Jesus. Jesus is the way of escape. He's the way of escape. But we're not talking about temptation to sin. We're talking about burdens, trials, troubles, weight, pressure.

Now, I said, and let me recap, and then we'll come to the Bible. I said, God will allow you to have burdens greater than you can bear. Now, let's prove it from scripture before folks change the channel.

1 Corinthians chapter 1. 2 Corinthians chapter 1. I'm sorry, 2 Corinthians chapter 1. 2 Corinthians chapter 1. Paul was writing to the church at Corinth about his experience. And here's what he said. Verse 8.

Now, I'm reading straight from scripture. 2 Corinthians 1 .8. We do not want you to be unaware, brethren, of our affliction which came to us in Asia, that we were burdened excessively beyond our strength so that we despaired even of life.

Verse 9. Indeed, we had the sentence of death within ourselves so that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead. Now, let me say two things. Number one, I just told folks watching on TV that God will allow you to have burdens that are greater than you can bear.

Number two, listen to number two, look at your own Bible. Don't you dare sit there and say, I just disagree with him about that. Get it. Look in your Bible. 2 Corinthians 1 .8 and 9. I go back to what I said.

Are we willing to have our mind changed if we see something in scripture? Now, let's look at these verses. Paul said, when I was in Asia, he said I had a burden. This is verse 8. That's right. It wasn't just a burden.

It was an excessive burden. But then here's the next phrase. Beyond our strength. I'm reading this from the New American Standard. But the New International Version, which is not my favorite version, but in this verse, it does a good job.

The New International Version in 2 Corinthians 1 .8 says we were burdened. Here's the quote. Beyond our ability to endure. Making it very clear. I mean, does it get any plainer than that? Paul said, I had a burden when I was in Asia that was so excessive.

It was beyond my ability to endure it. It was greater than I could bear. There it is right in the Bible. Now, lest you think, well, he might have meant something else by that. Listen to, he goes on and says, so that we despaired even of life.

Now, let's put that in modern English.

What's he really saying? I mean, I give up living. I just wish I could die. I wish I could die. Who hasn't said that? I'll bet there's a lot of people watching the show today that have been in circumstances somewhere in their life.

That said, you know what?

I just like to die. I'd like to be out of here. We've all been there. And those watching this show, if you've ever got to a place where you say, you know, I just don't know how I can bear this. It seems like it's more than I can bear.

And I just wish I could die. Well, you're in good company because the Apostle Paul said that. But wait, wait, he didn't stop there. He goes on and says, indeed, we had the sentence of death in ourselves.

In other words, it's like my whole life, it's like it's got the kiss of death on it. So now look at the progression. He wants to make it very clear. So he's redundant. He repeats himself again and again.

I had a burden. It was an excessive burden. It was greater than I could bear. It made me wish I could die. I had the kiss of death on myself. Why would God do that? Here it is. Verse 9, 2 Corinthians 1 .9, in order that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead.

Now, here's the complete thought. I said God will put more on you than you can bear. The complete thought is God will put more on you than you can bear so that we come to the place where we realize that he will bear it for us, so that we will come to the place where we give up confidence in our own self-sufficiency.

That is why problems can be the best thing that ever happens to us. See, I mentioned earlier in the show how that on October 6, 1990, I was lying on my face and saying, God, you know, the Christian life is overrated.

I'm quitting ministry if this is all there is to it. I even said, Lord, why don't you just let me die and take me to heaven? But that was a good thing. I look back now and say that dark night of my soul was one of the mountain peaks of my Christian walk because it, remember I said earlier that I prayed and I emptied myself?

It brought me to the end of myself. It is for that reason that our problems can become the best thing that ever happens to us. Instead of looking for God to bring us through and out of our troubles, we need to be asking, Lord, what is it that you're seeking to accomplish in my life in the midst of these troubles?

And the answer may well be what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 1, 8 and 9. God may answer, I'm working in you to bring you to the place so that you would not trust in yourself, but in God, in me, the one who raises from the dead.

So can you see then how troubles can be our best friend? But how many circles in the modern church tell you that if you're having troubles and if you're hurting, then you must not have enough faith? Oh, I hate that.

The ministering death to people. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. Ministries and teachers and preachers of the Bible that tell you that if you acknowledge that you're hurting, that you're having problems, that you're struggling, that you're in pain, don't make those negative confessions.

Tell it to the Apostle Paul. Yeah, try that on with the Apostle Paul. I had burdens. They were excessive. They were more than I could bear. I despaired of life. I had the sentence of death. You know and I know there are ministries right now that would have said to Paul himself, stop with those negative confessions.