Conversation with "Vagina Warrior"

Abortion, Adoption, and the Value of Unwanted Children

Across the country, women and men speaking out for and against abortion bans.

Even here in Arizona, where there is already a law on the books. So where does our state stand on the issue?

You're on a boarded baby, my unaborted baby, one of my child that I didn't kill.

They have adopted or if they fostered, because a lot of people can't. And I can respect that. OK, it's a very long and it's a very screwed up process. And that is part of also part of what's wrong with America.

OK, do you ever give money or volunteer your time to any of those organizations to help the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of children that are unwanted?

Can I answer that? Sure. Yeah. We work with Christian Family Care Agency. We've given lots of money. We've actually helped to support women who have these children and families. We have multiple families in our church that have that we've helped through the adoption process.

We've actually taken those classes. We've encouraged and put people into those classes. We've actually held classes and seminars at our church for adoption. And we have adopted children running around our church.

OK, any that are not denominational, because and I say this with all due respect.

So now the standard is denomination.

OK, but my question, I do say this with all due respect. A lot of times these children who are waiting on foster care, who are waiting on adoptive care, are not coming through any kind of Christian or faith based organization.

True. OK, OK.

So but I'm failing to see here when I answered the objection and there's no response, I'm getting to it. If you could allow a long enough answer, I'm going to get to it. So when I when I give you the foundation that we yes, we have, in fact, adopted children, we do classes on adopting children, we feed adoption, children, all those things.

When I answer that and you don't respond to that, you say, yes, but not just Christian. What what I want to say is that where does this get to us? Where does this get us to in the abortion discussion?

Because it seems like what's being argued here is there are a lot of kids who are struggling and in poverty, and therefore we should kill them.

What about the what about the.

I'm talking to her. I'm talking to her, ma 'am. I'll get to you next. Go ahead. Please don't interrupt her.

We can get to your question.

Worldview, Human Dignity, and the Image of God

OK, so I totally understand that. And my position actually, with all due respect to everyone around in the circle, is not that it has that abortion rights or women's rights have nothing to do with just killing babies.

OK, and everything to do.

I mean, it's all respect. Can you explain what you mean? I don't really think I know what you mean, actually.

OK. And it has everything to do and it has everything to do with control.

So you. OK, can you explain what that has to do with what I just said to you?

Sure, I can.

OK, it's about control.

I said, yeah, it is to kill the poor kids. No, they're in orphanages.

That's not what I said.

They should die early on.

Wow. You're totally putting words in my mouth.

No, your arguments here were there because there's an orphanage system and a foster care problem because kids struggle as they're growing up. They should just be able to be killed when they're in the womb.

No. Wow. What's your.

So what I said or what I asked actually was is are there answers from your perspective that are not Christian or faith based? OK. And helping unwanted children.

Well, we're OK. I'm going to answer that question. And that's from this from this perspective is that it's impossible to be neutral. You're not neutral and I'm not neutral. We all have a worldview. And what I would argue is that without the word of God and a biblical word, I'm answering the question.

I, I, I am. I'm trying to answer. I'm trying to answer, ma 'am. If you could if you could let me show her enough respect. So I want to respect what you asked me. I apologize for her behavior. So everybody has a worldview.

Everybody has a worldview. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I apologize again. So everybody has a worldview, right? So you have a worldview and I have a worldview. And I would argue that apart from the biblical worldview, there is no human.

I'm sorry. There is no human value and dignity. So you said without using the Bible. But if I don't use the Bible, right. So if I don't use the word of God as a foundation, then you and I are just purposeless protoplasm bobbing around in a cosmos that didn't have us in mind.

If we if our ancestors were fish, which I'm not sure what you do, accept that worldview. Are you an atheist agnostic?

It doesn't.

OK, so so if I'll show you how it does matter, I'll show you how it matters. OK, so so it matters because we have to ask the question, what is this lovely person right here? What what is she? She's lovely.

She's wonderful. She's beautiful. I'd say we all have we all have a perspective that says that she's worthy of value, dignity and respect. But we have to have a basis to say that because watch this. It would we have to be able to say this.

This is a random result of evolutionary processes, according to our dominant secular worldview, right? The universe didn't have us in mind or her in mind. According to the predominant worldview today, she's a cosmic accident.

And so is this. My worldview says, no, she's unique and in the image of God and deserves value, dignity, love and respect. My question is, if you abandon the biblical worldview, what basis do you have to call anything lovely or worthy of respect?

Rape, the Death Penalty, and the Rights of the Unborn

All right. So in that same vein, if you believe that we are all worthy of dignity and respect, do you believe that a child of rape is the is an act of God?

So you didn't answer the challenge I gave to you, but I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm happy to answer all that you asked me. So you didn't answer how we can see other humans as valuable. But I'll answer the question about rape.

Can you give me a yes or no answer?

Sure. I'd love to give you the answer to the issue of rape. I believe that the human being in the womb is all always worthy of our value, love and respect and protection. And I and I do believe that the rapist deserves the death penalty, but not the child.

So that's. I didn't I didn't suggest murder. I didn't know. I didn't suggest murder. There's a difference between here. Here's here's here's the difference. A human being that goes so far as to do such a wicked and evil thing to a woman has determined to commit a crime that is worthy of death.

I'm not suggesting that we do vigilante justice and go kill that person. I'm saying there should be a trial, criminal proceedings, and any man who would actually do such a wicked thing to a woman deserves to die.

Your position, your position is that the child deserves the death penalty.

So do you believe in absolute good and absolute evil?

I believe that God's character is the absolute standard of good. Yes.

And can there be good without evil? I believe that without good.

I believe that God's character is the standard of good. And I believe that anything that is against the character of God is evil. But back back, can you and I don't mean this to make you feel bad or to try to win debate points, but I mean, genuinely, I want to ask you this question.

When I said that the man who rapes a woman deserves the death penalty, everybody went up in arms. How could you believe such a thing? But you all believe the child deserves it.

OK, but you are also inflicting your opinion on the person being raped. Do you understand that?

Can you explain what you mean? I'm saying that the man deserves the death penalty.

So I want to tell you a story. I worked in a domestic violence shelter for years. I held the hands of a 12 year old little girl raped by her stepfather who looked me in the eyes with tears and said to me, I don't want this thing in my body.

What do you say to that girl?

I would want to come alongside that girl, love her, care for her, support her and work towards and work towards justice. Well, I'm answering. I would want the man who did that to receive the death penalty.

But I don't believe that we should get the death penalty to the child. You still haven't answered that. You believe that the man should not get the death penalty, but the child should.

OK, but I don't believe you're what you're doing is cutting out and totally neglecting the girl in the middle.

No, I'm not. That you actually just denied that. I said we should come alongside her, come alongside her, support her, love her.

About what happened to her. Well, do you understand that?

What what we shouldn't say is that we should kill the children of criminals. The child. What is the child done in the womb?

OK, but the child is the 12 year old child.

This is a fallen world. Evil and wicked things happen in this fallen world, which is why you hate it so much. This evil thing that happened. But we don't solve the problem of evil and injustice by perpetrating more injustice upon other children.

And yet it's OK to perpetrate to kill her rapist.

Race, Planned Parenthood, and Abortion as a Human Rights Issue

There's a there's a baby here. There's a baby here.

Just like I was a bubble.

Respect the bubble.

You're advocating for your baby at home.

If you're so concerned about your child, leave your baby at home.

No, I have the right to be out here.

And don't worry about it.

So you care about me and I care about babies.

And you have to find out about it.

Black babies are aborted. Do you understand how many African babies are aborted?

How many Asian babies are?

Well, it matters. Do you know that? Let me ask you a question. Who knows about Margaret Sanger? Who knows about Margaret Sanger? Do you know about Margaret Sanger? Do you know that she was a very vocal racist and hated black people?

Do you know? Do you know that she believed that it would be good to actually wipe out the black population through abortion?

No one here is saying that.

You're the one bringing up wiping out black people, wiping out their families.

Where are most Planned Parenthood set up? Predominantly, where are they set up?

You're going to make this a race issue now. That's the issue, is that this is a race issue.

This is a climate issue.

This is a woman's right. This is a woman's right.

The issue of abortion is certainly a race issue as well. It's not a human. It is a human rights issue. But it's also a human rights issue. But I'm going to say for someone for someone that is a beautiful black woman like yourself, I have concern.

I have concern for you as an image bearer of God. I want to show you respect and love. I want to show you love and respect and concern. And I want to say that someone who is a sister in humanity, your lack of concern for where this comes from.

And there's and there's and there's a typical apologetic of Planned Parenthood supporters. No argument. Just talking about their pussies. OK, can you explain explain how I'm going in circles?

I'm not talking into your. Get that out of my face.

So you can't you can't engage in a rational dialogue.

No, no, this is going to pay. So what about the fertility clinics? And it's all OK for embryos in fertility clinics to be destroyed.

Embryos, Fertility Clinics, and Ectopic Pregnancy

Evil. Absolutely evil. Absolutely evil. And we're going to fight against that as well.

Well, why aren't you doing that now? Well, here's here's what we're doing standing out in front of fertility. May I say, well, wait, let me speak. You've been talking a long time. I'm saying, why don't you go out into fertility clinics and be protesting their destruction of embryos right there?

May I answer?

And my second point questions is what what are they going to do with all those embryos in fertility clinics if they are not destroyed? What's going to happen?

Can I answer? Number one, our fight here against this is fighting for protecting all humans from conception. And you are human from conception. You're recognizing that right now by talking about the fertility clinics and the embryos.

So let me let me finish. I let you finish. OK, let's be fair to each other. So can we be fair to each other? I let you do two. OK, OK. So may I please? May I please? You gave me two. So, ma 'am, ma 'am, if you're not going to let me finish the conversation, ma 'am, ma 'am, you didn't let me finish.

You didn't let me finish. To kill embryos. Ma 'am, can I finish a thought? You had two points. May I finish without interruption?

If you don't put words in my mouth.

OK, so number one, when you bring up the moral problem of the fertility clinic by saying those are embryos that are fertilized, you're demonstrating that you recognize that they are human and it's a problem.

The next thing is, again, I'm addressing your argument. Feel feel free to respond after. Feel free to respond after. Next, snowflake babies snow. There you go. So that's what happened, boys. When you get into conversations with women like this and you engage their arguments, you'll see that they don't have a way to respond.

They always walk away. That's the critical thing to see. No. What's that? Who's calling a name? They're called snowflake. No, no, no, no, no, ma 'am. Hey, and there you go. You should before you try to use something as an argument.

You feel free to ask me. Feel free to ask me. No, I say feel free to ask. Thank you. So it's it's actually a very amazing thing where these fertilized eggs are then implanted into the uterus and these and women give birth to these babies.

There's actually a really incredible story, an incredible story that there's one human being who is actually 15 or 16 years on ice and is now running around because it was it's a snowflake baby put into the womb, given a chance to grow and to develop.

And so that's what we do with them. And Christians are doing it across the country.

But what about ectopic pregnancies? What about the pregnancies that don't take place? Well, I have people and the mother needs to get out or they both will die.

Yeah, I have people actually in our. No, no, no. I'm trying to answer. I'm trying to answer. We have people. We have people who are within our church that were ectopic pregnancies.

But that's not your that's anecdotal evidence.

People at your church. You asked me what to do about it.

And I said, why is that not?

Why is that not OK? If a child is going to kill the mother and itself, you cannot terminate the pregnancy, an ectopic pregnancy. People are talking about taking it out of the body and then reimplanting it in the womb.

May I answer? May I answer? OK, just just give me a few seconds to answer. Are you are you are you aware of the statistics on abortion that less than two percent are for life incest or rape? You have no less than two percent.

Less than two percent. And there's their records. You can you can see this. And there you go. And that's typically what happens.

Supreme Court, Roe v. Wade, and Constitutional Authority

Yeah. Abortion is still legal in all 50 states.

Now, actually, it's illegal in Arizona. AZ statute 13 dash three six zero three Roe v.

Wade federal law trumps all of that.

No, ma 'am, that's not how it works. Supreme Court does not create law. What's our Constitution say about creation of law?

If you want to, if you if you like, take it back.

You seem really friendly, but I'm so sorry. OK, I'm sorry. It's OK. It's OK.

Yeah. No, no. Like you can challenge it. You can challenge that.

Can I ask you a question? Our Constitution, what does it say about law? Who creates law? Can you just please answer? You can't. You can't answer. The Supreme Court does not create law according to our Constitution.

Congress makes law. OK, so the Supreme Court was an opinion, not a law.

The Supreme Court can uphold that federal statute.

There's been no federal statute. There's been no federal statute. You ma 'am, you need to educate yourself on the law. God bless you. All right. Thank you, officers. Appreciate your protection.