Retired LASD Officer Calls Abortion Murder

The Biblical and Legal Definition of Murder

All right, I'm here right now in the studio, at Apologia Studios, talking with my friend, Tony Miano. Tony, thank you for joining me on the show today.

My pleasure, thank you.

Absolutely, so Tony, tell us about your experience and your credentials in law enforcement.

Sure, I served as a deputy sheriff for the county of Los Angeles from 1987 to 2007, served a total of 20 years in that capacity. I worked a number of different assignments as a gang investigator in both the custody and patrol divisions, served as a juvenile crime investigator and a number of other assignments as well.

Abortion, the Image of God, and the Duty to Love Our Neighbor

Okay, and so Tony Miano is with Cross Encounters Ministries. Tony, you spent quite a deal of time on the front lines of this fight against the slaughter of innocent children. You spent a lot of time outside of abortion clinics.

Tell us about that.

Yeah, I've been standing outside of abortion clinics for close to four years now. Prior to that, I assisted in the production of Living Waters documentary, 180, and was responsible for distributing that DVD en masse on about 100 or so college campuses around the country.

It was during that process that I realized that I really wasn't doing enough on my own to try to stem the tide of the murder of unborn children. And so I found the closest abortuary to my home, which was about 15 minutes away.

And as often as my schedule permits, every Wednesday and Saturday, I'm outside of that abortuary pleading for the lives of unborn children and trying to bring the gospel to the souls of those who are bent on murdering them.

Okay, that's an important place to start, Tony. Why are you so invested in this particular issue? You're spending so much time, you've obviously spent so many resources, and you have spoken now nationally on this subject.

Why are you invested in this particular issue?

Well, the two greatest commandments are to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And sadly, much of our depraved society today does not count unborn children as our neighbors.

I think as Christians, we're obligated to do that, and they are being murdered wholesale, several thousand every day here in the United States. And if we're truly going to love our neighbors, all of our neighbors, then we should do whatever we can to try to stop the murder of unborn children in our country.

Why Abortion Is Murder in Law and in Scripture

Okay, thank you for that, Tony. Tony, you mentioned a word that is often off limits to those who are in the pro-life movement, pro-life community, you said murder. Let me start at the bottom. Why, biblically speaking, do you use that terminology?

Well, I use it biblically because the sixth commandment, the sixth of the 10 commandments is not to murder. The legal definition of murder accepted worldwide, and I'm gonna read it verbatim, is the killing of a human being by a sane person with intent malice aforethought, meaning prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way, and with no legal excuse or authority.

In those clear circumstances, this is first-degree murder. Now, I found it interesting, Jeff, that included in this legal definition of murder, it also says death of an unborn child who is quote-unquote quick, meaning fetus is moving, can be murder provided there was premeditation, malice, and no legal authority.

So while right now it is quote-unquote legal to murder unborn children in our country, but for society's determination to kill unborn children, in every sense of the word, abortion is murder.

The Image of God, Personhood, and the Elements of Murder

Okay, so from a biblical perspective, you gather a foundation. Children are made in the image of God. God knits us together in our mother's womb. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. We are unique. We have full personhood, and we are human, an image of God at the moment of conception.

Now, when we talk about the movement, the pro-life movement over the last 40 years, there are a lot of different opinions in this area as to how we should treat the issue of abortion in terms of what we call it, how we should treat abortionists who actually perform the abortion, and how we should treat and what we should call women who actually have abortions.

And I'd like to ask you, coming from the perspective of somebody who worked in law enforcement, you have, obviously, your Christian biblical foundations underneath you, the only coherent worldview, but you're also somebody who is a law enforcement officer.

When you think about abortion and what takes place in an abortion, how would you actually define that as somebody who's worked in law enforcement?

Well, in order for me as a law enforcement professional to effect an arrest of someone for murder, all of the elements of that crime must be in place. One of those elements missing, I might be able to arrest them on a lesser charge, but I would not be able to arrest them for murder.

And what are those critical elements? One, it's the killing of a human being. That must be in place. Yeah, I can't murder a dog. I could kill a dog, but I can't murder a dog. There has to be intent. The person committing the act of killing a human being must have had the intent to do that.

Plus, there also must be malice aforethought. There has to be a degradation of that victim. There has to be the understanding that they are robbing this person of life. And those elements all must be in place.

There also must be no legal excuse, meaning this can't be a justifiable killing.

Okay.

So there has to be killing, there has to be intent, there has to be malice along with that, and there has to be no justifiable reason for taking that life. And that's exactly what happens in an abortion.

In every abortion, a woman goes into an abortuary with the intent of ending the life of her child. It is premeditated. It is not accidental. It is premeditated. And there is malice aforethought because these women know that they are carrying a child, not a blob of tissue or not a parasite of any kind.

They know they are carrying a baby. And with intent and malice and premeditation, they go into an abortuary and they end the life of their child. That is murder.

Abolishing Abortion and Refusing Incrementalism

Tony, what do we need to communicate? What ought we to be communicating to people on a national level, both just to the general population and to the legislator? Legislators in this area, what do we need to communicate faithfully?

Well, one, we have to communicate that the pro-life movement over the last 40 years has been an abysmal failure because all efforts to rid the world of abortion incrementally has done nothing to stop the slaughter of unborn children.

60 million is a failure.

60 million is a failure. One is a failure. 60 million is a great failure. And we must abolish abortion. It must come to an abrupt and sudden and quick and timely end. We have to communicate that. We also have to communicate to the church and to the legislature that settling for the murder of some children is not acceptable to God.

That settling for the murder of some children is still devaluing the life of every child murdered. And we have to communicate to our legislatures and to the church and to the world at large that abortion is murder and that the women who abort their children, the men who participate in the abortion of their sons or daughters and anyone who is participating in this death culture, they will stand before God to give an account for their life.

He will see their acts and even their thoughts on this issue as murder and he will judge them accordingly. And that their only hope is to turn from these grievous sins and by faith and by faith alone receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior.

And so long as the pro-life movement continues to look at women who abort their children as victims, they will not be communicating the law and the gospel to these women.

The Duty to Obey God When Courts Resist

Okay.

Tony, I'm gonna ask you something important. Say that people finally act consistently with a biblical worldview and also just in the area of what is actually legal in our nation in terms of how we actually define murder and say the legislatures of states abolish abortion at the state level.

The argument that often comes, Tony, is people say, well, a higher court will have a different opinion. A higher court will attempt to strike it down. What is our duty before God at that point?

Well, James 4 .17, I think makes it really clear to him who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Yeah.

And so every state, every legislature, every individual politician must do what is right before God, and that is to end abortion. And it is a lame and cowardice excuse to say, well, we're not gonna fight the fight down here because those up in the federal government might overturn it.

We have to do the right thing as individuals. We have to do the right thing as states. And regardless of what the federal government decides, we need to do what is right. We need to do that which is pleasing to God, and we need to abolish abortion.

Amen. Tony, thank you. It's been a huge blessing, and we appreciate all you've done to contribute to end abortion now.

And likewise to you guys, thank you for all you're doing and for the fight that you're fighting so well, and for using your gifts and your talents in the media realm to bring these issues to light and to hopefully help to abolish abortion altogether.

Amen.

Bless you, brother. Thank you.

All right, likewise. God bless.