Faith, the Qur'an, and the Bible, Online Defense of White Supremacists

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A clip from Leighton Flowers comparing the Bible and the Qur'an (from four years ago!) popped up and that resulted in a tweet from LF about debating the topic. We examined that, then talked for a while about the exposure of "Woe" from the Stone Choir and amazingly how those supportive of the rehabilitation of the Nazis and Hitler have come to his defense.

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Well greetings welcome to the dividing line, I don't know why this link is not working It's very strange why?
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It's well, okay. There's part of it anyways anyway And you know what
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I just realized I don't think this is being sent to you anyways to play it so There all right welcome just I looked up just a few moments ago
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I went hey two minutes to go and I thought I had like 20 minutes to go and That's that's what happens, so let's go ahead and start off with this because I I mentioned it
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You know sometimes stuff just pops into the feed that took place years ago and all of a sudden it just it's just there and You go, you know it'd be worth responding to this
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This was a latent flowers video from four years ago So this is even before we did the
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John 6 debate and What immediately caught my attention
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Was what it revealed? About flowers is understanding of both the nature of scripture and the nature of belief
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Let me tell you a story I don't know how old it was probably not more than 20 or 21 maybe 22 it was it was a while back and There is a still is a radio station here in the valley,
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I I don't really listen to terrestrial radio much anymore and I mean that whole field is that whole industry has changed radically with the
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Internet and And there was a station there were there were two talk stations here in Phoenix the
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Sun City respectable Talk station was what?
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Yeah was What's KTAR? Are they still on the air?
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Okay. Yeah, I heard they all moved a lot of them have moved in didn't
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FYI move. Are they they move frequencies? The old frequency went to sports.
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Oh That they took KTAR spot wasn't KTAR 550 620 that's right.
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That's right. It was one of the low ones Those are the higher power ones that can be heard for a long ways. So yeah, but 550 was one of the original clear channel.
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Yeah. Yeah, they didn't have limit limitations, right? Right, right. Yeah Yeah, nobody knows what we're talking about.
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So let's stop Nobody has a clue we're tired. What do you mean? They're my terrestrial radio.
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What's that? Um, anyway, the Newcomer in the valley was
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KFYI and To try to get hammer out an audience given that KTAR been here forever
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They had some pretty wild people on they had the wildest person they started with was a shock job
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That ended up in Los Angeles By name of Tom Likas. I wonder if he's even still around I haven't thought about Tom for many many years and He looked like a gnome with teeth.
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He really did. He was an odd -looking fellow and nice enough in person, but a wild radio personality and That it was like, you know, they had
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Bob Mohan and they had Very young that's right.
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That's right and But Likas was the craziest one he left this the first for a while was just Mohan and young and So, I don't
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I've lost track of how many times I was on KFYI there for a while and At first they were pretty much on the
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Tom Likas show. So that's that's where I encountered the guy from American Atheist Um Multiple personality disorder.
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Oh, I know. I know Brian Lynch Brian Lynch Pulling out names from antiquity here folks quite quite literally
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That was one of the wildest experience I ever have told you that story where I Had heard this guy on with another
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Christian and the guy was just Off the chain crazy nasty insulting just demonic and They asked me to go on with the guy
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In studio, he had been on the phone with the other guy But he was gonna be in studio.
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And so I didn't know what in the world to expect and This 98 pound white shirt
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You'd think he had a slide rule and broken glasses type guy comes walking in and Literally, he's like, oh what wonderful weather you have here in Phoenix.
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It's very written. This is a very nice studio it's very well designed and I'm like Cuz I heard this guy and on on the air before I'm Sitting here and like us.
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I'm looking at like us like is looking at me It's like what is this all about cuz he that had been his program.
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So he's seeing the same thing. I'm seeing well as Soon as that red light came on and that microphone was live
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There he was the nasty man himself. I mean we're talking demon eyes
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Minimally multiple personality disorder, but in this situation demon eyes but as soon and he could be yelling at me and insulting me and Like us to say well, we got to take a break.
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He'll be right back The air -conditioning works really well in here
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It was one of the weirdest experiences I've ever had if it really was anyway they called me lots of times and It wasn't
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I don't think it was unlike as I actually I think it was a weekend program Nobody listens to radio on weekend. Well, nobody listens radio at all anymore, but They had me on with a guy that had written for Prometheus books
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And I don't know if Prometheus still exists I imagine it does But he's an atheist and They asked if I would debate this guy
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And again, I'm a seminary student at this time, all right and I Think if I recall correctly, they say to come by the the studio will give you a copy of this book.
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I think I did and I just remember It was a really interesting
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Conversation the guy was not like Brian Lynch. He was calm cool collected and what
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I remember most Was he's like well look if you If you read the
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Bible and you take it seriously It teaches that there is one
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God that Created all things and is accomplishing his own purpose for his own glory
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And he does this through the sacrifice of Christ and the redeeming of a specific people in Christ and that you come to know him by faith and not by anything and you can add to what
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Christ has done and And I remember the person asking him. So so you read the
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Bible as if it's saying God is sovereign over all things. Oh, yeah, that's obvious Okay, you know and there are
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Christians in the audience going You know things and things like that but it's but it's like there was a really clear example of an individual that could pick up the
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Bible and Read it and go. Well, yeah, that's obvious what's being said?
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What what's the problem? Now he didn't believe any of it He could read the
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Bible. He could accurately understand what the Bible was saying. He could pick up his message He could understand what it was calling him to do he just didn't believe it so he had he could gain accurate knowledge
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But he couldn't act on that or he didn't act on that knowledge let's at least put it that way so I've always remembered that that you can have individuals that can
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Actually have a better broad scope handle On what
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Scripture is saying then Christians because of their traditions Because of the traditions that were inculcated in them maybe early on You know my pastor that led me to Jesus taught me this and I'm never gonna believe anything other than this and so on and so forth
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Okay Tradition gets in the way that is very often Tradition plus ignorance the primary reasons why
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You have the vast majority of the disagreements and distinctions that we have not the only reasons but primary reason so When you think about as a as a believer when you think about faith you know the theologians talk about faith as You have to have knowledge of the object of faith you have to assent to the truthfulness you have to trust in the object of faith various aspects of what
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Saving faith would actually look like it's it's not just going. Yeah, I believe that well
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You know the the atheist believed That the Bible said that God is sovereign, but the atheist didn't believe that God is sovereign
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So The the object of knowledge to the atheist was the
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Bible as a collection of ancient books Consistently shows this kind of belief now.
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He doesn't believe that that's the Word of God. He doesn't believe that's God's Revelation Doesn't believe that these books are inspired but he can have a certain kind of knowledge and And he
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He can understand what the gospel is Yep, you can yep. Jesus takes sins upon himself
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Trust in him have eternal life he understood all of that and Again in What sense?
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He did not believe it to be true, but he knew the object of what our faith is and Could understand what that object was
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Okay so Saving faith has to transcend
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The faith that that atheist had Now he wouldn't have said he had faith but in many ways he knew more and In some ways trusted the consistency of the
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Bible more than a lot of people call themselves Christian So, why wasn't he saved well, it has to do with the nature of man the nature of faith the nature of Scripture and what its purposes are and It is it should be obvious to all
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Christians that a believer Approaches Scripture in a fundamentally different way than an unbeliever does in fact, it's
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I Think the vast majority of Christians would testify that If they were converted later in life, they weren't converted as a young child
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I was converted as a young child, but if they're converted later in life, they'll go. Yeah, you know, I knew what the
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Bible was and I I had one someone had given me one once but it wasn't until I Felt conviction of my sins and fled to Jesus Christ that all of a sudden
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The Bible came alive to me. The Bible is something that I wanted to be reading the Bible is something I want to memorize the Bible has authority in my life something changed and Of course, we recognize, you know, you flee to the
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Shepherd then you want to hear his voice The Shepherd's voice will be something you long for and you'll recognize the
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Shepherd's voice throughout Scripture even in sections that you Young Christian may not understand me.
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Why do we have these genealogies? Oh my goodness Leviticus. I'm confused But Then you realize well
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Jesus quoted from Leviticus a lot. So maybe I should be patient and learn some things about it Maybe I shouldn't reject it because I don't know anything about it at all something changed in regeneration in regards to our
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Relationship to the scriptures as a whole And we understand this spiritually
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We understand that if Scripture is Theanoustos, it's God breathed.
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It's God speaking. We know that it's brought to us by the Spirit of God and we are
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Enabled to understand it and we naturally desire to be in submission to it
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Because we have a new nature. It's the new man That is renewed After the image is the one who created him and so me and the atheist we had the same
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Bible in our hands, but we Had a completely different orientation as to what it is
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Why it should believe know what and and and of course I've acted in faith on its commands
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But the atheist Knowing it Did not act upon his commands
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Now some people would argue that makes me better than the atheist and That I accepted what the
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Bible said while the atheist did not Because I was a better person
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A more sensitive person maybe more value in God's sight depends on your religious background so with all that said a
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Clip appeared a couple days ago now might have been yesterday.
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And again, it was four years ago of Leighton flowers and We know that Leighton has over and over again said that the sufficiency of Scripture is in its clarity
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It is sufficient to call men to believe So he will he will take us to John chapter 20
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And So at the end of the gospel John says therefore many other signs
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Jesus also did in the presence of the disciples which are not written in this book But these have been written
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So that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing you may have life in his name
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Now there's a specific context here John's talking about his gospel
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He's not talking about the entirety of Scripture He's simply saying that I haven't told you everything in Jesus Jesus did or said how could he
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He's gonna say at the end of the end of the book the world itself could not contain all the books would be written if you Record everything in Jesus said and did
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But what I have written These things have been written So all the things the signs that Jesus did that are recorded for us in the gospel of John Which he did in the presence of the disciples and Were written down there were other things he did in the presence of disciples that were not written down.
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So John's saying I Had to make a selection I had to make choices as to what
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I was going to include what I was not going to include and I was not trying to be exhausted But These have been written these stories these actions these sayings of Jesus have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the
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Christ the Son of God and that believing and That by believing you may have life in his name
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All right so John is Making it clear.
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I didn't do this. I'm not this isn't a history book. I Isn't just a memoir so that when
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I die People know what my relationship to Jesus was all the rest that kind of stuff No, I've written this so that you might believe that Jesus is the
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Son of God and so Layton says see that's all you need That's all you need
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He says these things have been written. So it's it's just what's written So that you may believe that Jesus is the
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Christ the Son of God Well as a as a
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Christian when I read these words Yes, I I believe it's like first John These things written you may know you have eternal life.
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No, of course first John is talking about Loving your brother Not loving the world there's a most people ignore
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What came before that? reminds me of Signs just remember the movie signs and you'll know why
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I just said You never saw it, oh my goodness, okay
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Well, there are some people there's some people online going see rich is a Christian and he's not
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But you yeah, you won't if you have not seen it Then then you you don't you don't get it
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But I'm sorry water that's been there for a few days does taste different than water that hasn't been there for a few days
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Dollars to so John repeats this the first John one is more about loving your brother and not loving the world and Confessing that Jesus has come to flesh and you know, there's four chapters of first John that comes before this and These things have been written so that you may know that you have eternal life so in other words if you're doing these things and you're gonna
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Understand that you have eternal life because these are things that unbelievers don't do But the idea is hey
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Scripture is clear enough It's clear enough to it is sufficient to call someone to faith in Jesus Christ and we'd all go
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Well, yeah, so what's the argument about? Because he wants to say without any miraculous intervention from the
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Spirit of God Every human being Is a new
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Adam Every human being can simply come to Scripture and without any
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Work of the Spirit without any work of the Spirit in bringing about spiritual life.
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So you can come to Scripture as a slave to sin But the slave can simply choose to be to free himself
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Even though Jesus said the Son has set you free. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope No, no, no, no, you're being way too literal
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That this was a self -imposed slavery so since you can you can you can you can free yourself
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The slave can just take off the chain dead and sin It's a metaphor metaphor.
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You can just sort of go and you're ready to go Heart of stone
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We see hearts of stone beating every day evidently
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Don't you know the heart of stone could just go I just want to be a heart of flesh and No supernatural stuff involved here, okay
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Valley of the dry bones Not that big of a deal it's not that big of a deal
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Wow, how'd I do that? I just touched the keyboard it went it went from John chapter 20 to Genesis 1 1
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The point is that as we saw in the debate on John 6 and as we saw just a few weeks ago
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There is a consistent denial That The word produced by the
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Spirit Requires The special ministry of the
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Spirit to be fruitful now This is this is one of those many places if you know anything about The Reformation Lutheran Reformed They all agreed word and spirit
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Inseparable cannot separate them dare not separate them are the Lutherans and the Calvinists agreed on this
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Repeatedly over and over again you cannot separate the two you you cannot have the supernatural
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Inspired work of the Spirit Separated from the supernatural work of the
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Spirit now in enlightening in freeing from sin and bringing spiritual life but if your highest soteriological affirmation is
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The autonomous free will of man Then You there are certain things certain directions.
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You've got to go Definitely four years ago. He was talking about the difference between provisionism and Arminianism and He's actually criticizing
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Arminianism for being too reformed Clearly he's on the other side of the
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Arminians What's on the other side of the Arminians? There's a guy named Pelagius okay, that's he hates that that term is brought up, but there's there's a reason why it's brought up and So he wants to say we just believe in the sufficiency of Scripture as if Somewhere the
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Scripture teaches that it apart from the Spirit Now what didn't
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John just did John write John chapter 3 to did he did he write that as well? you know about the
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Spirit and The Spirit blowing word wills and being born again and all that kind did
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John is that the same book? Yeah, it's the same book that's that's that's that's there and in John 6 didn't didn't you say something about the words
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I've spoken to you they are all spirits in their life, and they actually had
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You know when and of course we know that latent flowers has some real problems with John 6 but the consistent reading of John chapter 6 is
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That that spiritual work of the Spirit Makes that word to come alive in the hearts of those have been given by the
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Father to the Son from their perspective The only people that the Father and give the Son are those who have already
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Enabled the Father to give them to the Son by believing in the Father not in believing in the
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Son, but again, we we already went all the all through this and When you when you turn
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Autonomous free will into the key hermeneutic of your reading of the
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Bible the results are going to be really bad and in latent flowers
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Situation that's what they are So with all that said I'm not going to bother to bring it over here.
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I'm just going to play it So that you can hear this this is
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I hope it works anyway You'll see there's a reason why
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I wanted to play this Because I want to connect something else. So let's let's listen to what's being said here
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By it's only 42 seconds long. That's why I'm not going to bother to put it up on the video. So here we go
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Maybe that helps. It's just to understand. We're all we're trying to say is that the invitations
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I Either Bible the gospel is sufficient to do what the
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Bible says It was meant to do these things were written so that you may believe and that by believing you may have life in his name
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We're just taking a face value that the written word is sufficient to be believed
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Just like the written words of the Quran are sufficient to be believed You you don't need some supernatural work to believe the
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Quran Why would you need a supernatural work to believe the Bible? That's what caught everyone's attention,
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I think even Justin Peters repeated said Googly googly moogly theology or something
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Everybody's like What but you know, it's helpful remember choice meats helped us to understand
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What's really at the bottom of the Provisionist Well, and You know, he's had to backtrack on that what he what he meant was obvious at the time.
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It was clear And So here's another illustration that you know, I do not listen to Leighton flowers.
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I I do not I don't have anybody listen for me The only time I see anything is if someone posts something or it starts a conversation somewhere someone sends it to me, whatever
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And so, you know, what caught my attention there? obviously
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Was the Quran now as far as I know
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Leighton flowers has debated me twice. I Really have a recollection of a at least informal conversation with an atheist
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I Thought it was a debate. I could be wrong. I think he did and of course that Thing it
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First Lutheran in Houston, which I think was the first debate they did there. It's amazing they've done so many debates since then wait that one went where Flowers and Pritchett took on the two hyper
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Calvinists that was Entertaining not useful but entertaining.
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Let's just let's just put it that way and So he
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There isn't much else that I've seen that he's done and I have seen
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No evidence, maybe someone can direct me to something. I'd be happy to be corrected
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But I have seen absolutely no evidence whatsoever That this man has any serious knowledge of Islamic theology.
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The Quran has done any kind of interaction whatsoever With with the with the
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Muslims stuff like that, I I see nothing and so I'm like, yeah
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You're literally paralleling the Quran with the New Testament you that You don't have any idea what what the
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Quran is And There isn't you need that, you know one one connection anyways is
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The the Muslims are full -on plagiarism. Okay, there is They don't believe for example, you never speak of the image of God in Islam.
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There's no Imago Dei Allah is Utterly transcendent and so it would be anathema to speak of the
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Imago Dei image of God So man, you know, there's there's dispute amongst
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Protestants And this is coming up in my preparation for the debate on the 15th
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Because Lutherans believe that the image the Imago Dei is lost in sin
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Not just marred. It's lost and And is only reestablished in regeneration so an unregenerate person does not have the image of God think about what that means for a second
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What's the basis for capital punishment in the Old Testament? You're killing an image bearer of God Well, what if they're not an image bearer of God?
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Troubling and so Muslims will never use that terminology.
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They don't speak of the image of God and Therefore there is when we when we speak of The suppression of the knowledge of God by the unbeliever in Romans chapter 1
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They don't really have a There is no idea of a fallen nature of man.
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There is no union. There is a sense of Union with Adam but not in the
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Romans 5 Context at all. It's not a forensic type of thing
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Instead the story told in the Hadith it's it's not told in the Quran specifically but in the
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Hadith At least it's explicated most clearly there is that There's something called the fitra fitra fitra the fitra is
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Somewhat of a Not really genetic memory, but Racial memory
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That goes back to the idea That one day
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God took Adam out onto a great plane and He rubbed his back and all of Adams progeny came forth and stood on the great plane, so all of Humanity that would ever exist
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Stood before a law on this great plane and They confessed him as Their Lord as their
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God and so there is a memory of this in Mankind that persists in mankind
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This is how they'd understand the knowledge of God But it's not a knowledge that is
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Suppressed in sin or rebellion. It's just unclear in what it's Testifying to and you you come to know the truth of the fitra when you
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Say the Shahada confess that Allah is the one true God Muhammad is his prophet and So on and so forth
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The idea of the necessity of a spiritual mind no, that's where there'd be agreement between Islam the plagians and the provisionists
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There is there is no concept in Islamic theology
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That a a man is fallen in sin and therefore needs
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Spiritual assistance from God To Confess that that God is
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God and To Turn in repentance and faith there.
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There is no idea of repentance and faith in that sense at all There's is a very much
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Pelagian anthropology and So Muslims who engage in dawah
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Islamic apologetics Will Make reference to the fitra and They will in some ways end up arguing like us at times
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Because they're assuming that fitra exists. And so they want to try to Encourage a person to think upon The fact that they once confessed
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Allah as God because see in in Muslim thought and again, there are variations, but I'm talking about Orthodox Sunni Islam in Muslim thought you are born as a
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Muslim and Then your parents pervert you into being a Christian or a
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Jew or an atheist or whatever else might be But you are born as a monotheist and they're appealing to that fitra that remembrance of what that was
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For you to come back And to once again profess that Muslim faith
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Now when I say that I don't want you to become confused because Again classical
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Sharia Says that the only penalty for a person who leaves their religion is death and So if you're born as a
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Muslim then Yeah, there are some Muslims that will take it that far, but the vast majority of Muslims and Muslim jurisprudence and stuff like that It's like no, you don't make that application there.
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You make that application only to people who actually say the shahada in life and Then deny that then they they become a hypocrite and subject to Islamic law of What happens in that in that context?
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so The whole Muslim approach To the
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Quran is based upon that very very very different anthropology very very very different view of me and that really changes everything and So when
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When When we played this when when this clip got mentioned
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I just I saw somebody linked to it and I responded
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I Don't even know what to say to something like that. I mean, it's just so Literally paralleling the
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Quran and And so I think it was yesterday
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Leighton responded to me and Let me see here
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Yeah, there you go, I think you can actually see that and he said James I'd love to debate you on Which book is more believable the
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Bible or the Quran? Now that just just think
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Think about that for a moment Okay Because we all know that Leighton flowers can only debate one subject
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Okay, there's only one subject you can debate and that is his plethora of analogies in attacking the reformed concept of Man's inability and man's slavery to sin.
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That's all he can do. It doesn't matter what text you're in That's what he's gonna do and It's right here again
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Which book is more believable the Bible or the Quran? So he says you would have to argue the
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Quran is more believable because it requires a miracle for anyone to believe the Bible Good luck with that You all should be ashamed of putting the
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Quran on a higher level By suggesting that God ordained it to be believed but not his own inspired truth in Scripture Then you can see what
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I had said. I had said do you just say I mean really I don't even know what to say Wow, just wow.
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That's all I had commented. So it's we have to we have to sort of go.
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Okay, you would have to argue Okay, wait, let's guess which book is more believable the
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Bible or the Quran okay One's the Word of God and one isn't
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One has supernatural continuity the third tries to assume that but again, this is stuff that he doesn't know anything about I Am unconvinced that he has ever read the
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Quran and If he did he probably read it like most people do read it from beginning and had no idea what he's talking about Okay, that's what most people do
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I Know a little about the Quran. I've read it multiple times Actually learned enough
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Arabic to translate certain ayahs that were had key theological elements to it I haven't used my Arabic forever and it's pretty much gone but I have
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Debated Quranic texts in mosques and in churches overseas
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I've sat at dinner with Islamic scholars and apologists and had lengthy conversations about Islamic anthropology
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So I don't believe for a second that he's done any of that just because just like I don't believe for a second
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He has any real knowledge of history Original languages
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A lot of the stuff that he talks very confidently about I just like yeah So I Get that we're talking to someone here who has come up with an analogy again
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But doesn't know anything about the context that would make the analogy in any way worthwhile
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Because Muslims don't believe that there is any need For well, there is no spirit of God in the personal sense for there to be a miraculous
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Well, there's no change of heart there's no new man There's no concept of anything like that in Islam the same person who
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Says the Shahada is Forgiven of all their sins
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There isn't even a specific concept of repentance But it's the same individual there's no new man.
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There's no renewal. There's no indwelling the spirit. There's no resurrection. There's no Stone heart of stone heart of flesh all that stuff
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The author of the Quran knew nothing about he didn't have access to the Bible and even though in Surah 5
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Al -Kitab, no Al -Maidah, sorry in surah 5
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There is an attempt on the author's part to forge a chain of consistency between Torah Injil and Quran law gospel
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Quran it's painfully obvious the author knew nothing about the contents of any of those books and Does not have any idea
42:58
What either the Older New Testament teaches? About Anthropology about the nature of man.
43:04
It's just not there. So When we talk about believable believable for what?
43:14
What are you supposed to believe the Quran for? What are you supposed to believe scripture for? There's so much of a difference that again, it's just totally lost on because it was ignorance that the analogy is absurd
43:32
Um Not only that but when you read the Quran and you don't read it in chronological order
43:41
Remember I provided you a nice little chart Toward the beginning of the book that I wrote on this subject
43:48
That would at least allow you to read the Quran in the best guess we have as to its chronological order
43:55
Which at least give you some? Hope of sort of following somewhat of the story and through the life of Muhammad and things like that but still
44:08
Its message is to call you to follow Monotheism and the prophet that that's all it's calling you to do
44:20
It's not calling you to Repent of your sins and You know, is it well you need you need to Allah submission to Allah Okay, if you think that's all repentance is in Christianity we're talking about a complete change of mind
44:41
We're talking about a new nature That's what we're talking about Pelagians not so much
44:48
So you would have to argue the Quran is more believable No There's all sorts of problems with the
44:54
Quran In my book I document the number of places that the
45:00
Quran actually cites from Gnostic sources Where the author plainly thought what he was?
45:09
Citing was found in the Christian scriptures and Unlike Leighton.
45:15
I actually provided my own translation of what was being cited in the
45:20
Quran From the Ascension of Isaiah and stuff like that Infancy gospel of Isaiah.
45:28
All right wild and crazy stuff anyway Now he's not talking about is more believable in the sense of history thing because he doesn't really about it
45:40
He doesn't know anything about the history of the Quran He doesn't know anything about the the the problems with with the compiling of the
45:46
Quran what what Sahih al -Bukhari said No, it's not that bad So You'd have to argue the
45:54
Quran is more of a believable because it requires a miracle for anyone to believe the Bible See you see the fundamental problem there the equivocation
46:05
The Muslim understanding of believing the Quran is completely different than the Christian understanding of believing the Bible because we're not talking about simply
46:12
Believing factual statements in the Bible. We're actually talking about believing faith in the object.
46:18
The Bible presents to us. That's Jesus Christ That requires repentance that requires submission that requires a
46:29
Recognition that only the Spirit of God can bring that's not required for the Quran so the analogy
46:40
Demonstrates that That he's never understood what reform believe about this and that's been pointed out to him over and over again.
46:47
It'll never change I'll never change his entire persona is wrapped up in it. So it doesn't matter As well as ignorance of the
46:55
Quranic position as well So when he says you all should be ashamed of putting the
47:01
Quran on a higher level by suggesting that God ordained to be believable But not his own inspired truth scripture. That's just this was written yesterday.
47:08
Okay, this is written yesterday This is what happens when you double down triple down quadruple down will not accept correction
47:18
You know after last debate you run around trying to find a scholar to try to patch you up because You were exposed again as not having a clue what you're talking about You just keep doing it and you you come up with stuff like this
47:38
You should be ashamed. No Layton. You should be ashamed for even bringing up analogies about stuff that you know nothing about and You know, you know nothing about But you're gonna do it anyways
47:53
So he'd love to debate me on which is more believable the Bible Quran and You know,
47:59
I said last time I said to I said to rich and I said to my
48:05
Syrian brother in Houston Rudy Someone sent me a picture in fact of Me greeting somebody at that church and and Rudy was photobombing the the picture.
48:19
I had no idea it was but I Told both of them if you ever hear me
48:26
Talking about debating Layton flowers again Punch me in the nose.
48:31
And so they both said glad to do it and Rudy would really would
48:38
Huh? Huh, oh, yeah, Rudy Rudy you bet Rudy's a good man good man and you can fix your air conditioner too, but Yeah, that ain't gonna happen because we know that Debate.
48:53
Well, we just have a higher view of debating then and some people have So There's been some interesting stuff going on online
49:10
Let me let me just try to fit this into the last 11 minutes or so Now What oh, okay.
49:31
Now I get Jonathan Pritchett who works with Layton Posted and this just popped up when
49:38
I move something else out of the way I'm convinced well over half of soteriology one -on -one supporters are
49:45
Secretly Calvinists helping him continue to produce content so they can respond to it This is because no one else cares about Calvinism anymore, and he gives their lives meaning
49:58
Well, yeah Jonathan Pritchett's pretty wrong about that, but that's okay Nice guy, but again almost as wrong as as Layton is on things
50:11
Okay, so remember the brothers
50:19
That produced the Nazi stuff the white boy summer stuff last year that was that last year was the year before Who who can keep track of all of it?
50:30
There was this white white boy summer video that a number of folks
50:38
Were retweeting it and going. This is really cool. And this is when the Crusader stuff's going on and the blood and soil stuff and you're getting this out of Ogden You're getting this out of Georgetown This stuff's going on and then somebody sort of slows the video down long enough to go
50:57
You know because you've just got these flashes of pictures and and stuff. It's like wait a minute
51:04
Isn't that like the founder of the Nazi Party in America isn't this from the
51:09
Olympics in Berlin with Hitler and Started realizing This is a piece of Nazi propaganda and I'm really
51:19
Nazi because I this is this is why this movement is growing the left
51:25
Has become so unhinged and has been so unhinged for so long That they've called everything racism
51:35
Nazism fascism, you know Antifa and Since the left has become utterly unhinged
51:43
I am convinced that you could You know smack an
51:48
Antifa guy over the head knock him out drag him into an alley wait till he wakes up So he's not surrounded by all his friends.
51:55
Hey rip his mask off and Ask him for almost any meaningful understanding
52:05
Of like what fascism actually is what it was stuff like that.
52:12
They wouldn't have a clue They're just out there wearing masks and throwing bombs because they think it's fun.
52:19
They got nothing better doing life That's how empty they are so The left has so abused these terms that they have absolutely provided the
52:33
Greatest cover ever For real fascists and real
52:39
Nazis and real racists because You know just a few years ago.
52:46
We all would have said the exact same thing as soon as you hear some Wild -eyed leftist blathering about racism the one thing you can be sure of has nothing to do with racism not real racism
53:00
Not animus against your brother based upon their ethnicity their genetics their skin color
53:08
They don't know what a fascist is they don't know the relationship between a totalitarian state and corporations and the economic system and because fascism
53:20
Has been defined in many different ways, you know, if you use Mussolini's Definition that's a little bit different than somebody in the modern period of a lot of level
53:29
So the perfect cover if you wanted if you want if you were sitting back in 1990 and you went, you know, you know races seem to be getting along real well and You know
53:48
There are all sorts of awesome black athletes in the
53:54
NBA NFL major league baseball Whatever. Are there any in hockey?
54:01
I'm much hockey seems to be still fairly white. I think and Cycling there's only you know, thankfully
54:11
We've got a few black stars now in cycling, but for a long time. That was a pretty lily -white sport as well but these guys are making millions and millions of dollars and they're extremely successful and and As some people are saying hey racism is on its diet on its deathbed
54:29
How do we get it back? because it's such an effective way to divide countries and to divide people
54:38
Well a number of things happened starting about 2014 that began
54:47
Rebuilding the racial divide segregationism except now it's coming from the other side. It's the other side that wants to do it
54:54
And There's just such so much absurdity if you are a white cisgender male you are responsible for every ill in the society by the fact that you simply exist and Toxic masculinity and all this woke left absurdity is the perfect cover
55:25
Because you're gonna you're gonna attack Stuff that doesn't exist and in the process, what are you gonna do?
55:33
You're gonna create it You're gonna end up creating it because I just remember being so frustrated when it first started happening.
55:39
It's like this is absurd I don't see any of this stuff. I Do now now that's not what they were talking about that back then they didn't have to have an actual didn't have to be truthful and so people are digging into People are digging into This new movement and saying see we told you about this all along but it actually
56:17
What's happening is they are turning? White cisgendered males there can they're convincing you need to view yourself as victims because if everyone's viewing themselves as victims
56:28
Then no one's gonna be willing to actually stand up and say look we need to do what is best for our community for our nation
56:36
It's all gonna be I need my victim hood You need to be you know Making me feel better about who
56:42
I am Make everybody a victim and that way you can just completely destroy a country and that's that's what's that's what's taking place so These brothers come along and they do the white boy summer thing and then last
56:55
Christmas. They did another one or again. They are purposefully intentionally sneaking
57:03
Nazi symbols Nazi individuals Nazi ideologies into these videos and again, they're they're aimed at getting the attention of young men that They're they're being told you're victims now you're victims
57:23
Yes, you're being you're believing blamed for everything by the left but then the woke right will tell you and that makes you a victim and So you can start acting just as badly as the victims on the left act that aren't actually victims themselves
57:40
That's how you you so just absolute discord and destruction so I Track down I saw
57:54
What happened was there's a fellow online on Twitter called Hitler hated
57:59
Christ And what he does is he just provides Citation of citation after citation
58:09
Demonstrating that Unlike the Corey Mahler's the world who call
58:15
Hitler the last Christian Prince and you know just venerate the memory of Adolf Hitler and the
58:22
Nazis and You know use the emblems and and the
58:28
Hawaiian yards What what you what you
58:36
Got are people who are trying to rehabilitate Hitler to a certain extent and so this
58:42
X account provides all sorts of citations monitors the
58:48
Hitler apologists out there and Repost their stuff well Saturday night,
58:55
I think it was might have been Friday night This account posted a bunch of Texts and comments
59:11
From I guess we'd call him the number two guy at Stone Choir. You've got
59:16
Corey Mahler Corey J. Mahler He identifies himself. You've got this guy named that uses the name trouble whoa
59:26
His last last name is dumpers Ryan Woody dumpers is his name and He and Mahler are the
59:41
Hosts of the Stone Choir podcast and They go back they had connections with this other guy at first when they first started doing things and And So there was a sort of a document dump of a number of Really bad
01:00:11
Statements because if you listen to the Stone Choir stuff And again,
01:00:16
I've been I've been having to listen some of it for the debate You know, they're very pious
01:00:25
Six -day creationist Younger we need to believe whatever the
01:00:32
Bible says and you know Commandment on your father and the mother your mother that that actually means
01:00:40
You know all your father's your your grandfather your great -grandfather.
01:00:46
So in other words your race And We need to obey
01:00:53
God's commands and you're denying the faith if you don't do these things and and there's a there's a piety
01:01:01
Very much a piety that is found there. No, no scanning
01:01:10
Yep, that shot one. I'm right either so so this external perspective this this
01:01:23
Face toward the public of piety well, these were a bunch of statements on the part of whoa
01:01:33
That were just vile Sexually vile dropping f -bombs
01:01:42
Rejoicing in Sexual talk violence
01:01:48
Beheading of Jews, I mean it was it's just nasty stuff Just nasty stuff Almost immediately.
01:01:57
I started seeing people defending and I was like Did I miss something was there a public repentance was there a
01:02:11
Was there anything where he said, you know up and up until just a matter of months ago.
01:02:18
I was a complete jerk and I was a false Christian or something.
01:02:23
I don't know But I've repented of all that. I'm not Seen any of that at all and instead what
01:02:35
I did see What I mean, let me see if I can find this here real quick Oops missed over here
01:02:52
Come on, here we go What I did see
01:02:59
Was him posting the following Now he had said
01:03:08
I'm not ashamed of anything I say This was after saying all this stuff. So it certainly wasn't that But he posted
01:03:22
Oh, come on, well,
01:03:27
I have screencapped it and I'll be printing all this stuff out to Yeah, okay
01:03:34
Is this it here? Yeah, there it is get out of the way.
01:03:42
Oh The Twitter interface can be
01:03:48
Troubling at times. Here's this is on May 3rd. So this was three days ago This is whoa dump earth
01:03:56
Remarkable what so this is this isn't 2022. This is three days ago
01:04:03
Remarkable what pure okay back up Chuck these guys come after you.
01:04:10
All right, and They dug into This account that had posted this stuff and found out that The man is married to a
01:04:26
Hispanic woman Okay, that's what they're talking about Remarkable what pure evil follows any man having extended contact with non whites
01:04:41
Whites are capitalized without fail Every single one of them has made himself an enemy of God and of all mankind
01:04:55
In service to his black impulses now, you know,
01:05:06
I Mean you sort of sit back and go this doesn't make any sense in light of The hours these guys have spent trying to talk about the catalog of nations and the alleged curse on him
01:05:21
Which is actually in Canaan, but that curse is therefore on the black people in Africa But Hispanics are
01:05:28
European so what what I Don't think they even try.
01:05:34
Well, there must have been intermarriage from North Africa Let me read it again Remarkable what pure evil on what standard?
01:05:43
Pure evil follows any man having extended contact with non -whites Does this sound like a repentant man to you?
01:05:52
Hmm? Or is this sound like a complete continuation of the attitude that was seen in that document dump?
01:06:00
the f -bombs and the obviously Reprobate heart that they revealed
01:06:10
Remarkable what pure evil follows any man having extended contact with non -whites without fail every single one of them
01:06:19
Has made himself an enemy of God you need to look up what Corey Mauler and these guys say about enemies they say there is
01:06:27
There are no boundaries to the eradication the annihilation of their enemies
01:06:35
Made himself an enemy of God and of all mankind in Service to his black impulses
01:06:42
You see he's married to a Hispanic and therefore Just astonishing and yet immediately
01:06:55
I saw Christian nationalist reformed guys
01:07:01
Defending him not for that statement But for the document dump and the stuff he was talking about.
01:07:10
I guess he's got a real fetish for Emily Blunt The actress I guess he I saw him saying a lot of Stuff about her.
01:07:20
Oh, you're digging stuff up from years ago. Can't Christ cover all that. I'm like Where's?
01:07:27
Where's the evidence of repentance again if they if he had repented these things
01:07:33
Do you answer this way by identifying the people that expose it as the enemies of God? Because they're spending time with non -whites doesn't that actually you know
01:07:44
Prove the point and so you were talking with one of these bozos
01:07:50
John Calvin 1559 I bet you just walked him. There was nobody home there to talk to But Then all of a sudden out of nowhere out of nowhere
01:08:08
One of the brothers that produced the Nazi videos writes a big long
01:08:17
Not so much defense of woe as attack upon anyone Who would take seriously what was documented about the things that he said?
01:08:30
Now I remember when the white boy summer video came out and people started identifying all the
01:08:35
Nazi stuff a lot of the guys Were like, oh, well, we're sorry.
01:08:41
We didn't know and what do we say at the time?
01:08:49
Guys You can't play footsie with this you you can't you there there is no neutral ground here
01:09:00
You either Annihilate this stuff or it's gonna annihilate you And if you're just trying to get clicks and you're just trying to grow your your audience
01:09:10
By well, you know Stone choir says some weird stuff, but you know, they've got some interesting episodes.
01:09:15
What are you thinking? And I told you guys and you know who
01:09:21
I'm talking about personally, I told you you rejected that council and now you've got a defense of This kind of language look it up for yourself
01:09:38
Read the documentation and go whoa, and when that defense is posted
01:09:48
Who then responds to it positively on Twitter and Turns it into a shot against people like myself
01:10:02
Apology at church so on so forth, but Eric Conn Pastor at Refuge Church in Ogden, Utah Gloves are off man.
01:10:13
I I didn't I was only seeing Right before the program started some of the stuff that I'm now collecting from Conn but You would think
01:10:26
You would think you know that Now would be the time
01:10:34
To stand up and be counted and go. No, no, no. Oh You y 'all have been lying about us forever.
01:10:42
What are you doing now? What are you doing now? seriously
01:10:50
How come you guys aren't the ones taking on Cory Mahler? Hmm? How come you're the ones literally
01:10:58
Positively interacting with Nazi apologists like the people who produced white boy summer who are defending
01:11:06
The most one the most vile violent white supremacist racists in the internet today
01:11:15
Hello anybody home I You all you all can testify
01:11:23
Months ago. I said here's situation by April 2025 there's gonna be a lot of clarification there was by the end of 2025 the lines will be written very very clearly
01:11:37
That's coming very very quickly. It really is and I said
01:11:44
Everybody on that side is eventually going to come to a point where they're gonna have to make a decision They're gonna come to a point where they go
01:11:52
Wow, these folks are really willing to go all the way with this stuff and we never thought it would go that far, but That's where it is now
01:12:01
And if we want to keep these folks and we want we want to keep people coming to our conferences and we want to get the clicks
01:12:08
If we pull back here, they're gonna turn on us because we know we can tell they're gonna turn on us
01:12:15
And you know, we're starting publishing houses and we're doing all this stuff Yeah, I said they're gonna have a choice to make either turn back in repentance
01:12:29
Or throw off everything. They've said they believed and go whole hog. There's the only one's the only choice and We're getting there
01:12:38
We're getting there and it seems the decisions are being made Now thankfully I'm hearing from a lot of other people that started walking down that road that started seeing this stuff and they're like, yeah whoops
01:12:51
Okay. Yeah, I can't go there and they're they're walking away Okay That's those are the only choices
01:13:00
It really are but if you can read this stuff and And hey, look, maybe people haven't seen all the stuff that I have because right now because of a week from Thursday There are people sending me a lot of stuff
01:13:17
You know That I wasn't going looking for in fact,
01:13:22
I'll just tell you right now I I do not I don't think my heart could handle
01:13:31
Becoming the anti stone choir Ministry leader. Okay That's not what
01:13:37
I want to spend my twilight years in. Okay. I've got some big projects some big things
01:13:43
I want to be pursuing that will have long term impact but at the same time
01:13:49
I Watch the interaction with Samuel say and when that man sits there looking at a self -professed
01:13:58
Christian teacher and minister and says no the Holy Spirit Cannot sanctify you as much as he can me because I'm white and you're black if if you forget about all the stupid uses of racism
01:14:18
Because there are a lot of stupid uses of racism out there that is sinful racism and It's utterly contradictory to the scriptures so when
01:14:32
Bible dingers contacted me and they said hey, you know, we just We think Sam did a great job.
01:14:37
We just think that there needs to be somebody Who knows the process of debate?
01:14:43
Has done a few times Okay Um Was he want to debate is racism a sin?
01:14:53
Okay, we know where that's gonna go. We've heard we've already heard that one for like four hours now. I said,
01:14:58
I'll tell you what Can the Holy Spirit sanctify black man as much as a white man
01:15:05
That's what he said That's absolutely positively indefensible biblical
01:15:12
Comes back and says he'll do it What am I supposed to do What am
01:15:18
I supposed to do? I don't want to be doing this. I don't but At the same time there's a lot of things you have to do as a minister that you don't necessarily want to be doing
01:15:31
Every church discipline situation is something you don't want to be involved with but you got to do it. That's so here we are and It is an amazing thing.
01:15:42
Yes, you you raised your two things I mean in our Boomer late years.
01:15:50
It's definitely not a subject any one of us want to be taking on it is a cesspool and Every every time
01:15:58
I read these guys it gets worse and worse and I've said for months like you I Felt that there was more bottled up than the inside these guys that they were dying to let out but felt they couldn't
01:16:10
Well, they were in other contexts Other contexts behind the scenes, etc. Yeah, but for those that you just referred to That might get to a point and go.
01:16:24
Oh, wait a minute I didn't realize they were going that far and I can't go that far. My big concern is that they don't become self have some some self inspection here and realize how far they've already come and Repent of that because it's this entire
01:16:43
Train that's led up to this point the one can ask the question.
01:16:48
Have you already gone past the point of no return? to where like you said You've you put all your chips in this basket and your conferences
01:16:58
Everything you're doing is lined up with these guys and if you break free you lose it all Because the entire audience that you've now cultivated is going here
01:17:09
And the question needs to be asked if you stop here What then for you?
01:17:16
Because you can't just stop here You have to look back at where you were when you started traveling down this road in the first place
01:17:25
And you you've landed yourself. I don't know if vanity fair is the is the analogy or if What the analogy is in Pilgrim's Progress, but the fact of the matter is you're so far off the path
01:17:38
And you don't even know it it's gonna take a lot a lot of traveling backwards to get back
01:17:43
Absolutely, but it has to be faced head on and it has to be repented of Trope, it's true.
01:17:51
Well one last thing here before we call this off because I've got a I've got Just over an hour before we do another program
01:18:00
I Appreciate all of you who have kindly Been doing as I asked
01:18:07
I think last evening We had a
01:18:17
And I you you you nailed this really fast. I'm not sure how you did. Did you just remember this you remember this person?
01:18:25
so hillbilly things as a young woman that evidently was a big fan of sheologians for a while, right and And Came up to me at the right response thing in Georgetown, right?
01:18:41
The Joel Webb and thing I spoke at so to Joe boot. This is before things started going wild and I Vaguely remember the picture because I because she even said online
01:18:56
That she had talked about summer and stuff like that And I I love hearing people talking about I love being summer's dad, you know
01:19:06
In those situations, I think it's wonderful And so I you know just vague recollection of that Well, she goes and posts this thing about two years ago
01:19:16
I was watching James White and and he was rude to me and and and he was just terrible and He's one of the main reasons
01:19:26
I'm now in the Roman Catholic Church and I Had had
01:19:32
I had some vague recollection of her. I had actually blocked her Coming after me, but I had no recollection of having anything to do with Roman Catholicism but evidently she jumped into that direction wholeheartedly, yeah and quickly and Quickly and since I wasn't willing to go that direction then
01:19:53
I became a terrible horrible person But fascinatingly, what does that have to do with becoming a Roman Catholic absolutely positively nothing clearly this is a very very obvious example of Conversion fantasy where when you become a convert you start coming up with Amazing things that allegedly happened in your old
01:20:17
Circles and these people were terrible and it's it's how you justify What you know, you couldn't justify if you actually had to defend it publicly, you know, and So yeah, you you caught that.
01:20:29
And so what I did is I asked folks because what she was saying is I just I I'm I'm elite.
01:20:35
I don't have to talk to hoi polloi And I was and I remember I spent most of my time at that conference when
01:20:41
I was on location Standing or sitting and talking to people as you usually do as I usually do we make an effort
01:20:49
I know to do this Yeah, that was that was one of the silliest things that she could have said because she obviously doesn't know that about me
01:20:57
I saw that post and Immediately remembered. Wait a minute. I saw her take a picture with James So I just clicked on her handle and started going back.
01:21:08
She said two years ago, right two years ago Well, let's go to two years ago today and see what I find. Well, what do
01:21:13
I find in her feed right there? Two years ago tomorrow, which is actually today and I'm thinking to myself okay, if she's giving high praise the day after you were so mean nasty cold and ugly and Disgusting.
01:21:28
Why did she even come back let alone pursue the picture and then give such high praise? Something else is going on here
01:21:36
And it is what you've described so many times as a psychology of conversion That one of the first things the convert does in order to justify this this major move away from where they've been
01:21:48
Even as they begin shooting back at that which they're leaving behind. Yep yep, and it's like It's there and what blows my mind is how many other
01:21:58
Roman Catholics then chimed into the conversation with me going? But wait, she's this and he's that how can you know you they can you figure out that it was the same conference?
01:22:07
Yeah, that was amazing, especially because it's the exact same background background and then she goes and acknowledges it and they don't even
01:22:15
Acknowledge that and then your sister's name comes up and it's like, okay, don't start pushing my buttons on that one
01:22:21
Cuz I saw that I saw things. I know but anyway, I know so yeah, it's
01:22:29
Something Sad is going on. Yeah. Yeah, and these people as usual are exploiting it and something tells me
01:22:35
She's probably not gonna be where she is now for a long period of time either But anyways, I just want to thank everybody
01:22:41
I said, hey, hey, you know those of you who've taken pictures with me and you know Talked with me in line at g3 or or at small churches all over the place
01:22:53
You know and you can grab that easily enough out of your photo library Why don't you post it on here?
01:22:59
And I'm not sure exactly how many There's been 70 so far who have
01:23:06
Posted something and and and put things out there and I appreciate that some of course have been AI derived
01:23:14
Which were interesting Like the oh, you missed the Rockefeller one.
01:23:20
Oh That with the with the pitchfork, you know the Rockefeller The guy put himself in as the wife and I'm standing there and he made the guy look a little bit like me and I'm bailing
01:23:30
Hey, but I also have a King James Bible in my hand. So I'm not really sure how that Rockwell, yes
01:23:38
What did I say? Oh Okay. Yes, Norma Rockwell. Yes. Okay Yeah, so there's there's been it's sort of cool because there's all these pictures and I've been getting to interact and you know
01:23:50
It's been going down memory lane. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Uh -huh Yeah, it's been it's been a lot of fun and might end up I'm talking with Keith Foskey now
01:24:02
A couple people from Florida or Commenting and it's like, you know, it's the one place
01:24:09
I haven't gone. Well, okay. I went into panhandle with the grand design early on But I really haven't gone into Florida proper
01:24:18
On an RV trip and that would probably be a good place to go like in February where it's cold everywhere else
01:24:26
But but not in Florida, yeah, yeah that would that would probably be a good thing so I'm I said to Keith hey
01:24:34
Maybe you could help help me arrange this, you know, we'll make your church the centerpiece, you know
01:24:39
Because he's brought me cheeseburgers and sat there and watched me while I ate them and that that buys you certain privileges
01:24:47
You know, and I've taught him how to put on a bowtie and there's all sorts of fun stuff like that So anyway, well, we'll see if there isn't a
01:24:56
Florida trip upcoming as a result of all of that Biblicia .com is down there
01:25:01
You mentioned someone down there Russ is down in the Tampa area.
01:25:06
We've got lots of friends in Florida So I think if we put it out there and said we're gonna be there during these dates
01:25:12
We'd probably be able to put together Plenty to keep us keep us busy at that period of time.
01:25:18
So anyways, alright Like I said got another program to do and Next week or Thursday should be a regular program, but that'll be a week before The big debate and of course a week from that that will be the program will be the debate itself, obviously