June 25, 2025 Show with Virgil Walker on “A New, Optimistic Vision for the Future of G3 Ministries & More”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have an imbuing conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 25th day of June 2025.

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And we are delighted to have a returning guest.

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It's been a while since he's been on the program, but I'm so thrilled that he was able to squeeze me into his schedule today.

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He should not be unfamiliar to the vast majority of our listeners. His name is

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Virgil Walker, Vice President of Ministry Relations at G3 Ministries.

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He is an author, he's a conference speaker, and co -host of the Just Thinking podcast with Darrell Bernard Harrison.

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And today we are going to be opening up the discussion with a new optimistic vision for the future of G3 Ministries.

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And then after we wrap up that part of our conversation, we're going to be talking about the

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L .A. riots when chaos becomes policy. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Virgil Walker.

02:39

Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. Glad to be with you, man. Well, I want to direct our listeners to the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website after this live show is over, if you want to get some additional reflections on what happened with G3 Ministries and regarding the fall of Josh Bice, its founder.

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I have interviewed Phil Johnson, who Virgil had told me beforehand would be an excellent source of information and would be an accurate source of information.

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There has been a lot of talk on the

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Internet, especially some from voices that really know little about G3 or the situation.

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And it was really annoying seeing the abundance of conversations about this when people didn't even know how to pronounce

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Josh Bice's name, revealing they didn't really know who he was. But Phil Johnson, who was a speaker there frequently,

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I think nearly every single G3 national conference at least, but I interviewed him on May 20th, where he first opened up the program with lessons learned from staring death in the face, giving us an update on his health, having battled blood cancer, a very frightening battle that he had.

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And then he gave updates and reflections on the current G3 Ministries controversy. So if you just type in Phil Johnson in the archive search engine at www .irontripandzioneradio

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.com, that will be the very first audio link at the top of the page.

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But without belaboring that issue, since we have addressed it in pretty large detail with Phil, if you could give us a summary of what had occurred and give us an update on why you guys aren't packing up your belongings at G3 into boxes and renting a

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U -Haul to head on out of Douglasville, Georgia.

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Yeah, well, I appreciate the ask. And yeah, I think for the most part, you know, your audience in particular is probably pretty clear on the issues that related to Josh Bice and the accounts that were on X that were anonymous accounts that were used.

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And unfortunately, they were used to defame and disparage ministries that were both friend and foe.

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And again, I say foe with tongue in cheek. We really don't have anybody that we're against per se as it pertains to G3 or broader evangelicalism.

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But that was disheartening that that took place. And that,

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I mean, heartbreaking is probably a better word. I'd written an article about that to a greater degree on my sub stack and just kind of expressed my devastation.

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And so I think it's important to say those words, you know, that those of us who were a part of, who are a part of G3, especially myself,

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Scott, Laramie, those who are in the office and work day to day, were shocked and were surprised by what transpired.

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I say that because it's interesting as you are in the inner circle of issues like this and you watch others comment about it from the outside, it's interesting how they perceive it.

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And many thought that for some odd reason, there was some cabal where Scott or myself or others had knew that this was happening and were in on it to some degree.

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And that's the farthest thing from the truth. I think both the members of the board and others who know us and know of the situation firsthand have made it clear that none of us knew that what

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Josh was engaged in was something that we were aware of. And of course, as the news came out, we were as devastated and shocked as anyone else.

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I kind of attribute this or connect this with any person, a female, a husband and wife, who the husband cheats on his wife.

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And then the question is, what did she know? Well, she didn't know. And she may have had thoughts about it or questions about it, but didn't know firsthand.

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And that's kind of where we are. And again, I don't want to equate what Josh did with any kind of sexual sin. It's unfortunate in the day in which we live, you have to be very careful,

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A, what you say, and B, make sure that within that same framework, you're articulating what you mean by what you say.

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We're in a very divided, very challenged, very soundbite -oriented

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Christian culture, even. And so it's with that I want to make those points clear.

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I don't think anyone who heard this wasn't hurt by it, wasn't saddened by it, to see another leader who was caught in sin, fall, and for him to start the process of being submitted to elders and to walking out true repentance.

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As it relates to that, again, those from afar can make judgments about what is true repentance and what is not.

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I will tell you, I think it will require some time for us to examine what true repentance actually is or isn't, does or doesn't look like.

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I will say, as I've interacted with Josh Bice and with others, I know he's broken about his sin.

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I know he's walking through the magnitude and the impact of what he's done.

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And time will tell. I think we need to give people time. We're in such a soundbite culture and such a

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Twitter frenzy, ex -frenzy, to ensure that within the next feed, within the next hour, two hours, three hours, that all the answers are provided and given, and that's just not reality.

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It's with that that I'd say we're doing well. We're navigating the issue.

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I think the board has responded in excellent fashion as it relates to trying to be transparent with the public who's interested to know about what's going on, and the elders to the best of their ability have tried to do exactly the same thing.

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No one is perfect in that process, but I think everybody is trying their best, giving the hand they're dealt, to navigate the issue with integrity and with honesty.

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Amen. Well, I am very thankful to God that although your update and report on Josh's repentance is cautious, you still offer optimism, and I am thrilled about that.

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Josh has been nothing but extremely kind and generous to me over the years and providing me with wonderful opportunities, making me feel very much at home every time

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I was there at the G3 conferences, seemingly bending over backwards to accommodate me, and I will always have the fondest memories of Josh.

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I hope that a friendship can be restored at some point in the future, and I am going to be praying as I am now.

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I am going to continue to pray for he and his wife and his children.

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I hope that they are very soon, if they are not already, integrated into a sound congregation and that he continues to bear the fruits of repentance.

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Is there any update that you want to give us about Praise Mill Baptist Church? Yeah, I think

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Praise Mill is doing the best it can under the set of circumstances and conditions. They lost a pastor.

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You know, I mean, you got to consider that someone who they loved and have had a relationship with for many, many years, more than over a decade.

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You can imagine the pain that that causes, the hurt that that is.

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And again, I don't want to speak for the entire church, nor am I representing Praise Mill, but just as a member there, we're all impacted by what took place, and it's a challenge.

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And it's a part of a process of navigating sin when it happens and walking that out, especially sin that was so public.

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I would not wish any of what transpired on anyone. It's not a great feeling to walk through.

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At the same time, what I try to operate in is from a standpoint of grace. Brother, I am the worst of sinners.

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And while my sin does not look like someone else's, doesn't look like Josh's, doesn't look like yours or anyone else's,

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I've got my own sin to deal with and address. And so I think it just requires the whole situation requires some self -reflection and to ensure that word not for God's grace, there go

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I. That I could be found in the same condition. That's my automatic default response when

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I hear these stories. Whether it was Steve Lawson, my first impulse is, OK, what in my life can

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I shore up to ensure that I don't find myself in the same condition, situation, circumstance? And so we made some changes around how

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I travel and that I travel with my wife and wanted to make sure that there's accountability in place to ensure that I don't fall.

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And the same is true in this instance as it pertains to online and social media and how we interact in that space and what we say and how we say it, making sure that there's some level of accountability.

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And I'm not perfect in that, so I don't operate in this conversation or in any other from a standpoint of self -righteousness.

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I'm not righteous but by the blood of Christ. But I can look at a situation and say, hey, this was sinful.

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It was impactful. It needed to be addressed. And I believe that those who are in leadership are doing the best that they can to try to address it and navigate it.

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And Praise Mill is functioning in the way that you would think that it would as a church who had their leader removed and he resigned and are trying their best to get their footing and move forward.

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Well, I would urge all of you who listen to Iron Sharp and Zoning Radio to continue to pray for Josh Bice and his family and for the saints at Praise Mill Baptist Church as they face serious questions about their future and as they review candidates for the pastoral ministry and everything else that they need to do to move forward and that the

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Lord would continue to bless that congregation mightily as it has in the past.

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And my heart's still broken over this, but I'm looking forward to hearing praise reports, not only from you, but eventually from Josh.

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Sure. Yeah. And I think that many people are too bold in their nastiness when they respond or react to things like this that they hear.

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And many of those people would never fare any better if they were in charge of an enormous ministry like G3.

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And please don't misunderstand me, folks. I'm not undermining or softening the seriousness of Josh's sin.

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But at the same time, we've got to recognize that Satan is definitely roaming around like a prowling lion.

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And when he sees a ministry growing and bearing such wonderful fruit, he is no doubt going to be attacking it and its leaders and tempting us.

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And we have to be more steadfast in our prayer life and taking precautionary measures, as you just said you did, so that we don't fall into the same trap, especially those who are in these large ministries such as G3.

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So now tell us some of the good news about G3 itself.

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There were those that were really pessimistic about G3 surviving this, but you've got a lot more optimism about G3 pressing forward.

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Yeah, of course. I mean, I know what's behind the scenes. I know what we do in that office on a day -to -day basis.

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I know the talent that's in that room. It's much smaller than you think for such a powerful impact.

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It's just a handful of us that are actually there that are doing day -to -day operations. Myself, Dr. Scott Annual, Larry Minga, of course,

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Harris Bice, who is our administrative assistant. And then we have Christy, who works in the accounting area.

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Outside of that, we have a lot of relationships that we connect with, third party, that help us do a wide range of things.

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But the brainchild there is the brain trust, so to speak. It's kind of within that executive team.

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Myself, Scott Annual, and it had been up to this point, Josh Bice. The board has stepped into that space and is providing direction and instruction and leadership and that whole thing, and we've been doing all right.

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We've kind of licked our wounds, but moving forward as well. And so my thought is there will be, in the days to come, you'll see a lot of great things from G3.

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No one's folding the tent. No one's calling it, packing it in. No one's ending things there.

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I think the board is very focused on what they can do to restructure, redesign, and reshape

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G3 so that it fulfills its mission of encouraging, equipping, and educating local church pastors in sound biblical doctrine.

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And so that's the goal, that's the process, and that hasn't stopped. Amen, and I understand that there, at least in the seed stages, there is discussion about future conferences.

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All hope is not lost for those of us who absolutely loved and looked forward to with bated breath attending the

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G3 conferences. Yeah, yeah, there is. I don't want to get ahead of any board announcement about that, so I'll table that.

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But simply to say that, you know, I think, could I see a day when

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G3 has conferences again on maybe a smaller scale, a local level, or in a regional space?

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Absolutely. I don't see why not. You know, they'd love to do that. There's no reason not to.

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But, again, I won't get ahead of any announcement that the board would want to make about what that is or where that is or who would be involved in that or what that looks like.

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But, needless to say, there's the hope that that will be the case in the days ahead.

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And I'm assuming that G3 publishing ministry is still in existence.

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Yeah, there was just an email blast that went out to all those who follow G3 closely.

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And the letter kind of, Scott Anuel kind of put it out and just basically said, you know, that we will continue the work that we have done through G3 Press, developing, you know, curricula and teaching tools and G3 Plus with all of its resources that are indeed available and a number of different workshops that we've done, worship, biblical worship workshops and the like.

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And so I think you'll continue to see us, you know, doing the things that we've done well and, you know, amplifying just faithful pastors in the days ahead rather than the kind of celebrity culture that folks right now are seeming to push back against.

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We want to identify local men who are preaching the word well and amplify their voices, whether it's through articles that they write or whether it's through podcast interviews that they engage in or even resources that they have that local churches have benefited from that could be placed on a larger platform for others to enjoy.

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So there's a wide range of different things that can and will be done and that will continue in the days to come.

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And so I think with the launch of the new logo and kind of a renewed focus that we've had as of late, that information has gone out.

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I think people will enjoy what they see in that space as well. Amen. Well, we're going to go to our first commercial break.

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And when we come back, we're going to switch gears. And Virgil is going to discuss the

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LA riots when chaos becomes policy. And if you have a question of your own, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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That's royaldiadem .com. Mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Virgil Walker, and we have transitioned from our updates on G3 to discuss the

33:58

L .A. riots when chaos becomes policy. And if you could,

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Virgil, give us an update, or should I say give us some background information on the specific riots that you are mentioning.

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For those of our listeners who are so sick of the bad news in the media that they've been tuning out of it, give us some background information about why you wanted to discuss this.

34:28

Yeah, I think this is an incredibly important issue, particularly for those of us who consider ourselves evangelical and believers to discuss, because on the one hand, the issues that are causing the riots have everything to do with mass illegal immigration.

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So on the one hand, I think you have folks who love the Lord, who want to follow

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Christ, who believe that the only right response is to proceed with compassion, proceed with resources, proceed with what can we do to help the least of these.

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And so those folks are wondering why, for example, ICE agents are out looking for those who have crossed the border illegally and perhaps committed crimes or criminal acts.

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Their concern, their thought is, shouldn't there be more compassion? In fact, you have a great many of them who are not simply – most of them are not out in the streets.

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Most of them you'll find online, who ask the question, what happened to the love of Christ? What happened to the kind of Christian compassion that we should demonstrate for those who are unfortunate, who are less fortunate than we are, who are oppressed, who are seeking refuge in the

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United States? On the other end, you have those Christians who are upset and angry about all of what they're seeing in the way of mass illegal immigration and the policies that enabled it to take place.

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And their question is, I wanted to stop and I want to stop now. So whatever it takes to get those people out of our country, and the emphasis may be for some of those people, whatever it takes to get them out of our country and back to the land they belong to, they need to be there.

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One of the reasons why I wrote the article was because I really believe that the response that we're seeing as ICE tries to go into areas of California and identify people who are here illegally and who have committed crimes, one of the reasons for the outrage is that we have fostered a culture that just says, you know what?

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If you raise enough havoc, if you say, you know, if you riot, well, that's the voice of the unheard and we need to listen to them.

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And so what normally happens as a result of that is those voices do get heard and they usually get accommodated in some way, shape or form.

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In the piece, I actually walked back through the fact that this is pretty typical out in L .A.

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And Los Angeles has a shameful history of violence and destructive riots. You had the Watts riots in 1965.

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You had Rodney King's riots in 1992. Of course, the

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George Floyd riots in 2020. And then now this and all of that, each time we're kind of told to understand the root causes and to empathize with frustrated voices and to see riots as the language of the unheard.

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And all of this, my argument is all of this. Every time there's a riot, it's always wrong. And there's no way to couch it any other way.

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Violence against innocents is sinful. The destruction of property is theft.

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Attacking law enforcement, that's rebellion against God -ordained authority. And it doesn't matter what injustice someone thinks that they're protesting.

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Grievance cannot justify lawlessness. And so that's kind of the crux of the argument that I make in the piece.

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And that we as believers have got to not lend ourselves to right -leaning politics, conservative politics, or left -leaning progressivism.

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But we've got to go back to what the word of God says about these things and really thwart what

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I see as absolute rebellion. What we're seeing in the streets of L .A. with these riots and these pushbacks and these sanctuary cities providing protection and cover for criminal activity.

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What needs to happen is Christians need to stand up in the public square and say, we're not having this.

38:52

And here's the truth. If you've crossed the border illegally, you've violated constitutional requirements.

39:01

You've violated the laws of our country. And as a result, at any time, regardless of how many years you've been able to be a productive quote -unquote citizen, at any time, you've got to recognize that if law enforcement ends up finding you and apprehending you, that there's a real possibility that you'll be sent back to your home of origin.

39:22

That people should expect that. People should recognize that as they break the law. And believers should be trying to do their best to let those folks know that they need to find a way to enter the country legally and to do so in ways that honor

39:40

God and honor the country that they're choosing to come to. The other crazy thing, Chris, and I'll turn it back over to you, that I saw as I watched the

39:48

L .A. riots and as they continue to kind of drone on is the protesters waving the flags of the countries that they've left.

39:57

That just does not make any logical sense to me, that you would leave a country that you could not find benefit from, could not find opportunity in, and in some instances were actually leaving because of the illegal activity that took place there, whether it was drug lords or drug cartels or the like, and that you would get to the new country and that in that new country in America, you would wave a flag of a nation you're no longer from.

40:31

Those kinds of things are illogical leaps, and they really kind of show you the nature of just the deficient knowledge, understanding, education that people have about what they're protesting.

40:46

Yes. Although I have met people over my 63 years of existence, some of whom have been friends of mine, one particular couple that were very precious to me who are now in heaven.

41:07

They were, I think, about 20 years older than me, and they were from England. The husband would very often compare his

41:20

British homeland with the United States, and he would litter his comments with insults towards America.

41:29

And a lot of warm, nostalgic memories of England.

41:37

And although I never said this to him, I kept my mouth zippered shut.

41:46

I was so tempted to say to him on occasion, why did you leave? Why are you even here?

41:53

But having said that, there is a listener who has,

42:02

I think, an excellent question on that very issue. The listener is

42:10

Gordon, who is located in Whately, Massachusetts.

42:18

And Gordon says, do you think that a lot of the things that you are mentioning, such as Mexicans waving

42:27

Mexican flags, etc. are not really the agenda behind those who are protesting, but it's all a part of a bigger plot by leftists such as George Soros who fund these things?

42:43

I don't doubt that. I think all of those things can be true.

42:52

Can George Soros be providing money to people so that they can disrupt, thwart the agenda of the

43:03

President of the United States? Absolutely. But I think I wrote this in the piece that these current riots kind of reveal something particularly disturbing that rioters are not even pretending to seek justice within the

43:15

American system. People are waving foreign flags while attacking American law enforcement with Molotov cocktails.

43:21

They are really rejecting America's right to exist as a sovereign nation.

43:27

So whether they're funded through Soros or whatever other political means, or they're just individual agitators,

43:37

I think the truth holds that they're rejecting America's right to exist as a sovereign nation.

43:44

They want to be the ones who make the rules. They want to be the ones who dictate the laws. And they want those laws and rules to advantage them rather than to protect those of us taxpayers, taxpayers though we may be, who in local spaces are overrun by the number of illegals who are crossing the border.

44:08

Every time I hear an argument in favor of this, I always think about the leftist who wants to virtue signal, who wants to tell you and me and others who are for the policies that we're seeing from the administration.

44:23

Those folks, if you ask them to a person how many illegals they're opening up their home to, the answer is none.

44:31

And if you were to show up at their doorstep with a dozen or more people from a foreign country to stay with them and to live with them and to live in whatever manner they saw fit based upon their own culture and customs, no one would open their doors for that.

44:47

No one would open their doors to the degree that more and more people every day.

44:53

And if every day I brought another dozen people and another dozen people and another dozen people, no one would keep their doors open for that or believe that they were doing something noble by that.

45:04

They wouldn't do it. All of it's a virtue signal. None of them would do this themselves.

45:09

And so I really, you know, anyone who holds the opposing point of view or perspective that I do on this issue,

45:15

I just think they're not being honest with themselves about what they're willing to take. They just think it's best for our country as a whole to absorb anywhere between 12 to 20 million people who've crossed into our country illegally.

45:29

Amen. And we have Wendy in Fernandina Beach, Florida.

45:58

That patriotic Americans look upon fondly. Yeah, the

46:05

Boston Tea Party was Americans who were rejecting taxes from a foreign power, mainly

46:13

Britain. And they were not able to be properly represented by British rule,

46:20

British government, though they were exacting taxes from patriots.

46:26

And so very different set of circumstances. You know, these are American citizens.

46:31

It would be different if Americans were entering the streets and asking for and inviting foreigners into their homes.

46:39

That would be maybe closer to equivalent, but that's not the case. That's not at all what's taking place.

46:45

These are foreigners who are here, many of whom are here illegally, who are out in the streets waving flags and their family members, right?

46:54

Some of their family members may be here legally, but they're wanting the illegal status to be vacated or overlooked or at least not adjudicated according to law.

47:05

So those kinds of things are quite different. What advice would I give? I mean, at the end of the day, what we're talking about is upholding the rule of law, right?

47:16

Either we have a country with borders and have a sovereign nation who has the capacity to determine who does and does not enter or we don't.

47:29

And so, you know, based upon that, I think we have a right to that. Most other nations do.

47:36

You will not be able to go into Mexico, enter there illegally and stay there. You can't.

47:41

You're going to be ejected from the vast majority of those countries who do that here in the United States because they know that there are soft -hearted

47:48

American citizens. You know, I would say white guilt, but it's not a racial issue.

47:55

It's more of a way that we've viewed ourselves as the tyrants of the world who have much to offer.

48:04

And anyone who desires to come and take what we have to offer should be allowed to do so. That's kind of the mindset by those who promote this perspective, this particular worldview.

48:14

I think we've got to stand up. We've got to say, no, we are a sovereign nation with borders.

48:20

And here's what that looks like. And, you know, we get quite to Acts 1726, that God who created man, right, and gave him a dominion, gave him a place, and through Adam, through that one man, made many nations, made many ethnos, and then as a result created the borders upon which their dwelling place would be.

48:38

That's Acts 1726. And so we know that, believe that God actually is the one who orchestrated borders and the dwelling place in which they would stay.

48:46

We have every right as a sovereign nation to enforce those borders and to say this far, no further, unless you come in through the legal process that we have established for those we want to be a part of our country.

49:01

We have Perkins in a whole book, Long Island, New York, who says, how do you respond to the tired, worn out argument that is usually given by liberals and leftists to Christians trying to appease to our own faith by claiming that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees.

49:27

And we would never want them treated in the way that the ICE agents are treating illegal immigrants in our country.

49:36

Yeah, I've heard this pushback. I would begin by saying if Joseph, Mary, and Jesus went to a foreign country, raped and pillaged and acted criminally, they might be visited by the

49:54

ICE of that day and be thwarted out of the country. That's just a fact, and that's actually what's happening currently in our own nation.

50:04

Joseph, Mary, and Jesus were not refugees that were entering a foreign land that had established a certain way by which entrances to take place.

50:16

And so those are not apple to apple comparisons.

50:22

They're not even apple to orange comparisons. There were many people who looked in the same way that Mary, Joseph, and Jesus did who were in Egypt, and they were not seen as some foreigner trying to come into their land.

50:36

They were passing through. They went back to their homeland in Israel, and that's pretty much the extent of it.

50:44

The idea that those who come here and act criminally, who criminally trespass to begin with, and then act in criminal ways are somehow

50:54

Jesus, Joseph, and Mary, I just think is laughable. It's a laughable comparison to begin with.

51:01

Yeah, and of course, like the listener said,

51:07

Perkins from Holbrook, New York, that these are typically slogans that are hurled to try to evoke guilt in the hearts and minds of those that claim

51:23

Christ as their Lord and Savior, as if trying to deceive them into thinking that they must be hypocrites and have to repent of this.

51:37

And just out of curiosity, do you know any reason, other than it being a big city, but Los Angeles has a history of rioting, what is the attraction to rioters to Los Angeles specifically, if you know that?

51:55

Yeah, as somebody who's traveled there often,

52:01

I just think it's good weather. I really do. I just think it's good weather, and the thought is the weather's good most of the year round.

52:15

If I'm homeless, I can be out in the street and it not be a problem, but for the most part, it's just great weather.

52:22

I say that tongue in cheek, I don't know any other reason than that, or just the liberal politics and policies that are a part of the

52:31

LA culture. It's just nonstop. Most of the folks who actually have any common sense have left

52:37

LA or are trapped there because, economically speaking, they cannot leave.

52:45

Most who are thinking have departed there. They've got more people leaving that state, the state of California, that are actually entering it.

52:54

And unfortunately, when they leave, the vast majority of them take their liberal points of views that destroyed a beautiful state right along with them to the next place that they go to.

53:04

And unfortunately, many in those places and places like Locusts begin to devour the place where they moved to.

53:11

You see a lot of Californians in Texas and in Colorado, many of them in Florida and Tennessee. And as a result, you begin to see over time liberal policies invade, and what follows is the same kind of destruction that led to their departure from LA, from California altogether.

53:30

It's really sad to be honest with you. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now.

53:36

If you have a question of your own you'd like to submit to Virgil Walker, the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

53:46

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

53:51

Don't go away. We're going to be right back with these messages. Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.

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We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

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Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

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We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

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We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

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Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

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One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

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Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

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Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

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Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

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That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831.

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Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

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Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

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podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We're dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed

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01:00:28

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Hi, this is

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John Samson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

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James White here of Alpha Omega Ministries, announcing that this September, I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend

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Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11 a .m.,

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I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris' Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville. Then, on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30

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p .m., I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the

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Bible is the Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.

01:07:08

For more details on the Free Pastor's Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:07:14

That's ironsharpensironradio .com. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org.

01:07:24

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.

01:07:32

And I really hope as many of you listening as possible can attend both of those events.

01:07:39

Obviously, the first one is only for men in ministry leadership on Thursday, September 18th at Church of the

01:07:46

Living Christ in Loisville, which is Perry County, Pennsylvania. But the second one on Sunday, September 21st, it's a worship service, so it's open to all men, women, and children alike.

01:08:00

So I hope to see all of you soon in Pennsylvania this

01:08:07

September. Before I return to Virgil Walker and our conversation on the

01:08:14

L .A. riots and other things connected to that spiritually and biblically,

01:08:23

I just want to remind you that if you love this show and you don't want it to go off the air, please,

01:08:28

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Go to iantrepanzionradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a

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Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live in the world,

01:10:30

I may be able to help you as I have done with many people spanning the globe in the iantrepanzionradio audience, sometimes finding listeners in all parts of the world, churches that are biblically faithful that are only a couple of minutes from where they live.

01:10:44

And that might be you. If you are without a church home, I might be able to help you. So no matter where you're from on the planet

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Earth, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:10:57

and put I need a church in the subject line. And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Virgil Walker, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:11:08

Give us a first name, at least city and state and country of residence. Let's see, we have

01:11:15

Doris in Saratoga Springs, Vermont.

01:11:21

And Doris says, A lot of folks trying to appeal to the kind and confessionate hearts of the

01:11:32

Christians will bring up Leviticus 19, 33 through 34.

01:11:39

When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. How do

01:11:45

Christians respond to that when it comes to illegal aliens in our midst?

01:11:52

Yeah, there's a difference between a sojourner, someone who's legally entered and legally abides and maybe has a visa or has utilized the

01:12:06

American system and structure for legal means by which to enter, and those who have done so by breaking in through the back door.

01:12:15

Consider all illegals who've come through the back door, breaking and entering. You're not going to care for the person breaking and entering into your home.

01:12:26

You're going to protect yourself. You're going to seek law enforcement. You're going to want that law enforcement to utilize the laws that they can to ensure that that breaking and entering doesn't happen again.

01:12:40

You add to that some additional criminal activity, physical harm, rape of any kind, something of a grave nature, and that individual needs to be sent back to their homeland and taken through the proper means of adjudicating whatever offense and crime they've committed.

01:13:00

It's just different. I mean, we're just talking about alibis and orders and trying to look at Scripture and take those kinds of ideas and lay them against the backdrop of what we're experiencing here in America just doesn't work well.

01:13:17

By the way, listener, I apologize for getting your state wrong. Our listener is not in Vermont.

01:13:24

Our listener is in Saratogus Springs, New York. Sorry about that.

01:13:30

I got confused because the next listener is in Rutland, Vermont. Kathy in Rutland, Vermont, and Kathy wants to know,

01:13:41

How can Christians rightfully be involved in public protests, or should they avoid them altogether?

01:13:52

I know there is a division in the body of Christ, whether these things are proper actions, even when legal.

01:14:00

Yeah, I don't know. I think it would depend upon what the issue is, what the circumstance is.

01:14:06

And if you're standing on biblical principles, I would have no problem going to a pro -life event.

01:14:15

For example, I'd probably even have something to say about many pro -lifers who should hold to an abolitionist stance about the issue of abortion.

01:14:25

I wouldn't have any problem doing that. Now, some may call it a protest. I think the right -to -life event that happens in Washington, D .C.

01:14:34

is a peaceful process. I think it's a peaceful way to express your thoughts, your ideas, to express freedom of speech.

01:14:44

We have those rights here in the United States. I think any action that you're taking where you're expressing a biblical worldview in the public square is a proper thing.

01:14:55

I know people who have gone into the public square to sing psalms and to praise

01:15:01

God in places where they knew that that was not wanted or not explicitly embraced, knowing that police officers would come and arrest them for it.

01:15:17

I think a lot of it has to do with what we're actually protesting is what we're speaking out about in line with biblical values, in line with what the

01:15:27

Bible says about the issue that we're standing up for. I think any form of violence that's a part of that is definitely off -limits for the

01:15:39

Christian. I think any form of redress that leads to some kind of a violent action against law enforcement would not be something that would be seen as proper or beneficial for a

01:15:50

Christian. I think you have every right to defend your home. I think you have every right. So I'm not saying that there are times when violence isn't appropriate or at least some form of self -defense is not appropriate.

01:16:01

I simply don't see the quote -unquote protests that we currently see in L .A.

01:16:08

and other parts of the country as advantageous for the Christian to participate in. Yeah, excellent.

01:16:14

And I think that specifically for Christians, when we participate in public protests, we have to,

01:16:24

I think, seriously consider who the others within our midst involved in the same protests, who they are and what they'll be saying and doing.

01:16:38

To give you an example, as much as I despise the

01:16:44

Holocaust of unborn children when it comes to abortion, infanticide,

01:16:54

I don't believe that I would be willing to be in a march where I was surrounded by Roman Catholics praying the

01:17:05

Rosary and perhaps even holding up statues of Mary or anything like that because it gives the impression that I'm just as much involved in that idolatry as they are.

01:17:20

Am I being too nitpicky about such a very important issue?

01:17:27

No, I agree with you. I'd be right in line with your sentiment.

01:17:33

I've been at an abortion mill at the front lines of that kind of a context, making sure that I differentiated myself from the

01:17:43

Catholics who were there, primarily for that very reason, that they were going to be praying idolatrous prayers to Mary.

01:17:49

And I wanted no part of that, and I didn't want to be connected with or associated with that. So I stood far away from them and called out to those who were leading their child to the slaughter through the abortion mill.

01:18:01

Amen. Well, I want to make sure, before the time slips away from us, that you address all of the specific issues that you wanted to most highlight in your article and therefore also in your conversation with me when it comes to these riots.

01:18:21

I think, again, we're living in an age of absolute confusion.

01:18:28

We have political leaders who are signaling the wrong things, and as a result, we're getting the wrong responses.

01:18:34

And that's kind of why I titled the article in the way that I did when chaos becomes policy, because what we're seeing in the rebellious hearts of these protesters has been fostered there.

01:18:48

The seedbed of it has been politicians who've given them a green light to do exactly what they're doing.

01:18:54

And it's incumbent upon the believer, upon the Christian, to differentiate truth from falsehood, right from wrong, and to be able to stand on what's right.

01:19:05

Recently, I don't know how many people have been following the issue, but recently there was a court order that had, as Trump initiated the

01:19:16

National Guard to go in and to quell the violence that was taking place, there was a court order that really tried to stop him from doing that.

01:19:26

That got an immediately first -hand look at the Supreme Court level, and he was vindicated.

01:19:33

In other words, the President of the United States has every right to utilize the military at his behest to quell violent agitators who are in the street protesting against American law.

01:19:45

And so that's what we're seeing taking place. It's incredible to watch and witness, but again, it's kind of the sign of the times.

01:19:54

It's a lack of biblical clarity on these issues. It's leaders who are defying what's in the best interest of American citizens and are doing so on behalf of violent offenders, outsiders, agitators, and illegals who are entering the country in ways that it was never designed to be entered.

01:20:15

Yes, and as, let's see, we have

01:20:21

Flo in Wheatley Heights, Long Island, New York, who says, isn't it fascinating the percentage of Hispanics who actually side with the conservatives over having strong borders?

01:20:37

That is quite amazing and refreshing, isn't it? It is.

01:20:43

It's fascinating because many of those people have come to America through a legal process, have waited in line, have done the right things, have passed the tests, and have done all of the things that they were told that they had to do to come in rightly and are here legally.

01:21:01

And what they don't want is to have someone eradicate their good faith because they happen to share a common origin.

01:21:11

They're both from Mexico. One entered legally, the other illegally, but based upon their ethnic background, we look at them similarly.

01:21:19

They don't want that. They've done things the right way. So they don't want to be associated with those who've done things the wrong way and want to see that kind of an effort thwarted.

01:21:28

So I don't blame them. Okay. We have

01:21:34

Billy, who is located in—I was just looking at it.

01:21:42

Where is your question, Billy? Oh, Billy in Stanford, Connecticut.

01:21:48

Billy asks, another thing that I believe Christians should seriously consider before getting involved in a public protest is whether or not we are unnecessarily drawing attention to something as an accident of our public involvement.

01:22:10

I can think of, for instance, some blasphemous, perverse, and heretical movies that have been released in the past where there were picketers who were doing little more than drawing attention to a movie that people might have gone to see where they otherwise may not have ever heard of it.

01:22:32

I think, yeah, that's a very valid point. It's obviously a completely different matter than something like the murder of unborn children.

01:22:41

But still, Christians do seem to, at least at one time— I don't know how popular it is to do now, but I can remember when

01:22:49

I was a new Christian in the 80s, that was a very popular thing to do for Christians to get involved in public marches and things whenever something was an attack on our faith.

01:23:02

But what do you have to say about where our listeners sit? I think, again, I stated earlier, if it's a direct attack on our faith, if it's an effort to thwart

01:23:14

Christians speaking out publicly, I think we have every right and responsibility to be in the public square.

01:23:21

I don't think we should ever draw back from the public square. We should do so just in orderly ways, in ways that honor

01:23:28

God, that show that we're peaceful people. And even by doing so, we're going to find that there are times when we are extricated from those situations, where a police officer shows up and decides that we're in some violation of some law and decide to put us in jail.

01:23:46

I think we need to be willing and ready to withstand that and to stand against that and to stand for what's right.

01:23:53

Anytime my Christian liberties are a threat and someone wants to imprison me based upon the public proclamation of my faith,

01:24:05

I'm willing to go to prison for that. Yes, and of course, any kind of justifiable, righteous public demonstration of protest is never going to be a riot.

01:24:19

I mean, a riot really is reeking and dripping with wicked self -righteousness and vengeance.

01:24:29

Because you're talking about stirring up a crowd to behave in a destructive and violent way.

01:24:40

Exactly. So obviously, you would not find any way, shape, or form where it is right, no matter how serious the cause, for a

01:24:50

Christian to be involved in a riot. Never, never. I said that in my piece.

01:24:59

Any kind of riotous behavior, looting, maiming, killing, shooting, any kind of riotous behavior, violence, vandalism of any kind, any kind of harm toward law enforcement, those kinds of things no

01:25:16

Christian should find themselves engaged in. Yeah, and of course, a lot of what we see and have seen for decades when it comes to riots, where you have looting, and you see people running out of broken store windows, carrying television sets and expensive clothing, these people could not care less about the so -called cause that is being protested.

01:25:46

And often, you see them laughing their brains out when they're running out of these places.

01:25:53

And it just reveals the absolute hypocrisy behind it. Absolutely, it does.

01:25:58

That's kind of the thing that we saw in 2020 with George Floyd.

01:26:05

Folks could care less about who George Floyd was or what took place. They were just anxious to get an armful of free clothing and to go back with large screen

01:26:19

TVs. I don't know what having a large screen TV under your arm has to do with justice for George Floyd.

01:26:28

But people seem to think that that was the way to go about it, that's for sure. Yeah, and obviously, as we just said, it really had nothing to do with going about anything to bring justice for George Floyd.

01:26:42

It was completely about greed and wanting free stuff. Absolutely.

01:26:50

We're going to our final break right now. And if you do have a question, please try to submit it as soon as possible, because we don't want to run out of time before you submit it.

01:27:00

Again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

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Don't go away. We're going to be right back. I'm Dr.

01:27:17

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01:34:34

And we are now back with Virgil Walker, and we have been hearing his reflections on the

01:34:43

L .A. riots and riots in general. And this has become an amazing display of hypocrisy and deceit by leftists because they never tolerate things that conservatives and those on the right participate in in a public sphere that don't even come close to the violence demonstrated at these leftist riots.

01:35:19

Am I off base here, Virgil? No, I don't think so. I think a lot of people are comparing

01:35:26

October 6th to what's taking place now, and there is no comparison.

01:35:32

I mean, the J6 committee and those who investigated that, there was an act of violence to the degree that someone lost their life.

01:35:44

There was a young lady who lost her life as a result, but no one there. And, again, I'm not trying to mitigate or minimize anything that happened on—

01:35:53

I said October, I meant January 6th. At the same time, what we see in the wake of total destruction on the streets of L .A.

01:36:03

and in California are massive by comparison. In fact, each one of these that I mentioned, whether it was the

01:36:10

Watts riots or George Floyd or Rodney King or what have you, billions upon billions of dollars were spent restoring the area to some degree and then paying for some form of reparative relationship with the minority group that was claimed to be disenfranchised.

01:36:34

And so there's no comparison whatsoever. Yeah, and when you bring up that tragic example of the woman who was killed at the

01:36:43

January 6th protests, she was a conservative shot by a policeman who had been written up in the past for improperly handling firearms.

01:36:58

And the left treated him like a hero, even though she was unarmed.

01:37:05

Yep, yep. I mean, absolutely mind -boggling. That's the difference we see.

01:37:12

That's the rebellion that's there, and it permeates all of culture but definitely shows up in these kind of left -leaning, progressive approaches to public policy.

01:37:25

And here, just as it relates to the illegal aliens becoming citizens, it's incredible.

01:37:33

And what biblical counsel do you have for Christians who are living in areas where they know that there is a riot breaking out?

01:37:46

There are some who are fully capable and skilled at using firearms, who want to protect a business and so on and just want to patrol that area or stand guard.

01:38:01

Some just believe that everybody should stay locked in their homes. What would your counsel be?

01:38:08

It might be a combination of both, depending on who the person is. Yeah, I'd say get out.

01:38:14

I mean, I would leave, I would get out, I would not be in those spaces and places for a wide range of reasons, not the least of which is just danger.

01:38:27

What happens in a lot of those places, if you stay there and quote -unquote defend yourself or defend your home, what you end up finding yourself in is more problems because of usually the legal framework that surrounds a community where this kind of violence takes place, where no one's trying to do anything to stop it.

01:38:53

Those positions that you put yourself in where you're defending your home, what you find is that if you're in a court system, a court situation, where some kind of legal issue is at play because you've harmed someone or you've hurt someone, you're the one disadvantaged.

01:39:12

It's not the perpetrator of the crime. Okay. We have

01:39:20

Stanford in Hasbro Heights, New Jersey, and he is asking an unrelated question to the riot issue, but he is asking a question about G3.

01:39:40

What will come of some of those valuable things that G3 helped to produce, like the statement on social justice?

01:39:51

Yeah. Those kinds of things are still available. I mean, you can still look those up.

01:39:57

You can still access those things. I'm looking up right now a statement on social justice and the gospel.

01:40:05

I think it's still accessible online.

01:40:11

Yeah, it's still accessible online. I'm looking at it right here, and so none of that stuff will go away.

01:40:19

All of the resources are still available and accessible and are provided, the vast majority of it, free of charge to those who want to experience it.

01:40:32

Amen. And you might want to even throw in there all of the valuable videos.

01:40:44

How are those being used today in light of the scandal? Yeah, they're available.

01:40:51

I mean, everything's still available and accessible, whether it's at g3men .org or G3 Plus, on the app or YouTube, all those things are still accessible and available.

01:41:03

Amen. Well, I really want to make sure before we run out of time, we're not very close to the end, but we've got about 18 minutes or so.

01:41:14

I want to make sure that you open up your heart and get more specific about prayer requests because we generally were discussing, in broader terms, requests for prayer for Josh's wife and children or Praise Mill Baptist or G3, but can you be a lot more detailed and specific about prayer requests?

01:41:42

Yeah, I just would encourage those who love G3 and have supported it for a long time to continue to pray for leadership, continue to pray for directions ahead and what we intend to do and that the good that came of and was a part of all that G3 is and was about and intends to be about in the days to come will continue and that there'll be renewed energy as it relates to those things.

01:42:09

G3 was never about a person. It really was about the work of Christ and the body of Christ, and all of it was for the glory of God in the local church.

01:42:17

Though what happened with Josh was something that saddened us all, the work still continues and the work is of great value and needs to be utilized by as many people as possible and the message needs to be pushed forward.

01:42:33

So just continue to pray. I think leadership has handled everything incredibly well given the set of circumstances and I think for the most part, they're trying to press forward the best way possible and continue to pray for that direction and insight.

01:42:48

We have Dale in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, who says, Sorry, I tuned in late, but I was wondering if you have any updates about future projects between you and Daryl Harrison and the

01:43:01

Just Thinking podcast. It's funny you ask that. Daryl and I are right now working on a massive, massive episode and really trying to approach it in the biblical sense.

01:43:12

We talked about social media and its impact and the like, and I think Daryl got the idea, he and I both, of doing a biblical theology of social media and just covering stem to stern a lot of the issues that we're seeing, and particularly evangelical culture.

01:43:27

Our podcast is aimed directly at the church, and so we want to talk about how do we use this in a way that maintains integrity, is

01:43:35

God honoring, and on the counsel part of that, you know, not on the counsel part of that, or should we always be public about what we say and what we do?

01:43:44

Is there accountability that should be taking place? What's the tone that we should take? What kinds of things should we be sharing and talking about?

01:43:52

You know, what is God honoring? What is not God honoring? And so we're going to do a deep dive in the way that we do through the

01:43:58

Just Thinking podcast, and I venture to say in the days to come, you're going to see a lot more from Daryl, from me, and our combined efforts as it relates to Just Thinking.

01:44:10

So really, really excited about the future, what that holds, and what we're going to be doing on a more consistent basis and in a greater way with clarity of voice and thought.

01:44:23

Any book projects in the works for you and Daryl? Yeah, we've got a number of things, not any of which

01:44:32

I can talk about at this point, but we've got a number of things that are on the back burner. We're trying to get some things sorted out, and there's a particular publisher who wants to publish some works of ours.

01:44:43

We're debating whether or not we take some of the things that we have and maybe go direct to consumer with, and I've been testing some things out on Substack to see if that's a viable option for us to get the message out and doing a lot of different things, doing a lot of testing right now, trying to figure out which formats would be best for us to use to really go direct to consumer and make sure that folks who really want the information find it in an accessible way.

01:45:12

So that's kind of what we're doing. Jake in Massapequa Park, Long Island, New York says,

01:45:19

I don't know if I heard you right, Virgil, but I think you said something about a project involving the theology of social media.

01:45:28

Don't you think that there needs to be a lot of education in regard to how

01:45:34

Christians use social media because we are all more prone to sinful, explosive anger and other wicked behaviors because of the anonymity, even if we use our real names, because we have safety behind a keyboard?

01:45:54

Yeah, I completely agree with everything that person just said.

01:46:02

You've got keyboard warriors who get really excited about being able to say something in very crass and rude ways, things they wouldn't say necessarily in front of the individual they were speaking with, but because of the layer of anonymity that is provided between a person saying something and perhaps getting into a physical altercation and them saying something and being far from that person, we get bold and we operate from a standpoint of courage that we wouldn't operate in otherwise.

01:46:34

Maybe it's foolishness rather than courage, but nonetheless, we engage it and we need to think through how we're utilizing it.

01:46:42

And again, by no means, I'm always the first to tell you I'm nowhere near perfect with regard to that.

01:46:47

I'm sure anyone can go through my social media feed and at some point find some interaction that I had in some way that wasn't right, that wasn't

01:46:57

God -honoring, that was indeed sinful. And for that, I do repent and apologize and try to make those things right and try to ensure that that's not the habit of my posts.

01:47:10

But if you're that person and you find yourself getting on social media, getting your blood pressure stirred because of a back and forth that you're having with an individual or finding yourself to the point where you're trying to prove your point to someone you don't even know,

01:47:25

I think you've got to step back and ask the question, who are you beholden to? Have you made social media an idol that you worship and your own image or your own ego is at the forefront of that rather than honoring

01:47:42

God in any way? So we've got to ask those questions. I think the particular podcast that we're about to do here in a matter of weeks or so will address those issues in a very thorough way that we've always done on Just Thinking.

01:47:54

Amen. And you mentioned before how you have added further precautions to your travel when you're involved in speaking engagements and so on that you bring your lovely wife,

01:48:09

T. Diane, with you. I think it's wise also for men to make sure that their wives have full access to their

01:48:21

Internet platforms and so on to further prevent them from letting conversations with women on the

01:48:32

Internet, especially private ones, escalate. Yes. Absolutely.

01:48:38

Absolutely. No doubt about it. And let's see, we have another riot question.

01:48:50

Let's see. We have Graves, who is located in Jacksonville, Florida, and Graves wants to know, is there anything written to your knowledge on the history of riots and especially from a

01:49:12

Christian or conservative point of view? Yeah, I'm sure there is.

01:49:18

I don't have access to that. When I wrote the article, I just kind of went back historically with the riots I knew about.

01:49:24

While I wasn't born during the Watts riots, I'm aware of them and you can kind of go back and trace historically what took place there.

01:49:33

I know about Rodney King and George Floyd. We got a front row seat to that because of the nature of media and what we had access to.

01:49:45

We got a chance to see, especially during George Floyd, more of it than we ever cared to because of the nature of social media and the prevalence of video cameras.

01:49:54

Everybody's got a camera in their hand as they leverage and utilize their phones. I don't think it would be difficult to go back and look at and examine and then to even examine what was stated as the reasons for the riotous behavior, none of which, in my estimation, are valid reasons to riot.

01:50:17

There is no valid reason to riot. That's sinful behavior. Well, thanks for rubbing it in that you were not born when the

01:50:27

Watts riots occurred. I was three. I don't remember it. Right, right, right.

01:50:32

But I was alive. Let's see here.

01:50:40

We have Caroline, who is in Lynchburg, Virginia, and Caroline wants to know or she asks,

01:50:53

I have noticed that typically when there is division between liberal and conservative over riots, you will have the liberals vilifying the police in almost every occasion, and you have the conservatives defending the police in nearly every occasion.

01:51:15

Must we as Christians not be too clumsy in the way we handle these things to make sure that we're accurate in our responses?

01:51:25

Because sometimes the police are guilty in the way they react to any kind of public conflicts.

01:51:34

No, I completely agree with that. I think those issues should be looked at on a case -by -case basis.

01:51:41

I also recognize that there is a natural sentiment, specifically in minority communities, that police are evil, right, that police are not to be trusted, that police are always on the wrong side of the violence and the abuse that's seen or experienced by blacks in particular.

01:52:02

And so I have a tendency to default to, you know, let's wait and get all the information.

01:52:10

And then again, that's seen as selling out, you know, by some in minority communities. But I'm with you.

01:52:16

I think we always need to pause and wait and see who was right and what was wrong and be willing to stand on the truth of what we find.

01:52:26

Because no one is sinless because they put a badge on their chest, right? No one is sinless because they are part of a police department.

01:52:35

They're sinful police officers who do wrong things. I think it's wrong to broad brush and say all police officers are in the same way that I would say it would be wrong to say that all blacks are or all

01:52:48

Hispanics are. We wouldn't do that in any of them. But to with clear eye and clear eyes and a discerning heart, look at a situation, determine who is right and who is wrong, and make the claim based upon the truth of the matter.

01:53:04

And it is a tragedy that even a decent police officer, a man of integrity, might even be a

01:53:18

Christian. He is placed in a very precarious situation where he may be getting provoked to anger by the the activities of those surrounding him in a public disturbance.

01:53:37

And he wants to go home alive. Yeah, he has a wife and children waiting for him at home.

01:53:43

And sometimes police have withheld a violent response that was completely legitimate, much to their own peril or the peril of others.

01:53:59

I mean, it's a really difficult situation. It really is. Because if you ever watched like video from like some of these agitators, police are standing there, they're kind of all in a row.

01:54:08

And these people are just screaming to the top of their lungs and pointing and gesturing in ways that that would cause you to think that they intend some violent action.

01:54:20

I could not be in that situation. I would. I don't know how many of us, given the same scenario, would flip a switch and would, you know, and would would respond in violent ways.

01:54:32

I'm not saying that that's justified by any means. I'm simply saying if given the same situation, same scenario, you're there for, let's say, an hour and riotous individuals, angry individuals who are out protesting are in your face, screaming at the top of their lungs and inches from you, saying all kinds of foul things about you and your mother and family members and the like and what they're going to do to you and all of this.

01:54:59

I don't know many of us, given that scenario, who would not at some point say enough is enough.

01:55:05

Again, does not doesn't justify violent action by any stretch of the imagination. But I mean, these are these are human beings as well.

01:55:13

And, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. I have great regard for the men and women who who put on the uniform every day and endure that kind of that kind of vitriol simply because they wear a badge.

01:55:25

Yeah. Isn't it amazing also that even when a black police officer harms in some way, even possibly tragically kills a criminal who is black, whether whether he was using legitimate force or excessive force.

01:55:47

The charge of racism is always hurled every every single time by the left, even when the police officer or officers, plural, are black.

01:55:59

Yeah, that's always the case. It's always the case. You know, it's unbelievable. It really is.

01:56:05

It's it's it's a sad shame. It's it's something that shouldn't be taking place. You know, I go back to stuff that Darrell and I talk about all the time as it relates to this.

01:56:15

There's one human race made up of multiple ethnicities, and all of us are sinful individuals and need to be seen as such and thought through that lens that all of us need need the message of the gospel at the end of the day.

01:56:28

Well, I want you in the next three minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:56:37

Yeah, absolutely. Always a pleasure to come on with you and to talk about these issues with you.

01:56:42

And I'm grateful for the platform that you've provided me in this in this particular space to talk about a wide, wide range of things.

01:56:49

But at the end of the day, all of this boils down to our need for Christ and him crucified. All of us are sinful and have have sinned against the holy

01:56:58

God. And as a result are deserving of his wrath. He would be righteous in judgment were he to punish us eternally for our sins against him and him and his holiness.

01:57:12

We have the great opportunity in and through Jesus Christ who came and lived a perfect life, who died a death he did not deserve on a

01:57:21

Roman cross to repent of our sin and to experience and receive God's divine grace.

01:57:27

His grace that would be bestowed upon us sinners by and through repenting of our sin and placing our full faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

01:57:37

As a result, we would indeed inherit eternal life as scripture promises. That's a grace that none of us, not a one of us actually deserves.

01:57:46

And God and his mercy grants it to any who would call upon the name of the Lord. They indeed shall be saved.

01:57:53

So my encouragement would be this. Today's the day of salvation. We have that opportunity even now as we consider our own lives, our own conditions, our own circumstances to recognize them for what they are.

01:58:06

And that is in violation of God's law and in need of salvation. And so my encouragement would be to repent of sin, place full faith in Christ, follow him all the days of your life, and you will indeed be saved and you will inherit the eternal life that he's offered through his son as a reward.

01:58:24

That would be what I would share with those who are listening. Amen. Well, I want to make sure I remind our listeners of the pertinent websites.

01:58:35

First of all, G3 Ministries website is g3min .org.

01:58:44

The Just Thinking podcast website operated by Darrell Bernard Harrison and my guest,

01:58:52

Virgil Walker. Justthinking .me, justthinking .me.

01:59:00

And are there any other URLs or internet platforms that you want me to mention?

01:59:07

No, you can find me on Substack at Virgil Walker. You can find me on Twitter. I mean, all the normal spaces, your

01:59:15

Instagram, Twitter, all that under Virgil Walker. So definitely building a nice following there at Substack.

01:59:21

Come check out some of the things I'm writing about. I think you'll be blessed and edified by those things as well.

01:59:27

Well, Virgil, my dear friend and brother, it's been a delight to have you on the program.

01:59:32

I look forward to many future return visits from you. Please extend my greetings not only to your lovely bride,

01:59:40

T. Diane, but also to your co -host, Darrell Bernard Harrison.

01:59:46

It's been ages since he's been on the program. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. Well, thank every one of you for listening, especially those who took the time to write.

01:59:54

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater