June 25, 2025 Show with Virgil Walker on “A New, Optimistic Vision for the Future of G3 Ministries & More”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 25th day of June 2025.

And we are delighted to have a returning guest. It's been a while since he's been on the program, but I'm so thrilled that he was able to squeeze me into his schedule today. He should not be unfamiliar to the vast majority of our listeners.

His name is Virgil Walker, Vice President of Ministry Relations at G3 Ministries. He is an author. He's a conference speaker and co-host of the Just Thinking podcast with Daryl Bernard Harrison. And today we are going to be opening up the discussion with a new optimistic vision for the future of G3 Ministries.

And then after we wrap up that part of our conversation, we're going to be talking about the L .A. riots when chaos becomes policy. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Virgil.

Walker.

Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. Glad to be with you, man.

G3 Ministries After the Fall of Josh Bice

Well, I want to direct our listeners to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website after this live show is over, if you want to get some additional reflections on what happened with G3 Ministries and regarding the fall of Josh Bice, its founder.

I have interviewed Phil Johnson, who Virgil had told me beforehand would be an excellent source of information and would be an accurate source of information. There has been a lot of talk on the Internet, especially some from voices that really know little about G3 or the situation.

And it was really annoying seeing the abundance of conversations about this when people didn't even know how to pronounce Josh Bice's name, revealing they didn't really know who he was. But Phil Johnson, who was a speaker there frequently, I think nearly every single G3 national conference at least, but I interviewed him on May 20th, where he first opened up the program with lessons learned from staring death in the face, giving us an update on his health, having battled blood cancer, a very frightening battle that he had.

And then he gave updates and reflections on the current G3 Ministries controversy. So if you just type in Phil Johnson in the archive search engine at irontripandzionradio .com, that will be the very first audio link at the top of the page.

But without belaboring that issue, since we have addressed it in pretty large detail with Phil, if you could give us a summary of what had occurred and give us an update on why you guys aren't packing up your belongings at G3 into boxes and renting a U-Haul to head on out of Douglasville, Georgia.

Yeah, well, I appreciate the ask. And yeah, I think for the most part, your audience in particular is probably pretty clear on the issues that related to Josh Bison, the accounts that were on X that were anonymous accounts that were used.

And unfortunately, they were used to defame and disparage ministries that were both friend and foe. And again, I say foe with tongue in cheek. We really don't have anybody that we're against, per se, as it pertains to G3 or broader evangelicalism.

But that was disheartening that that took place. And that, I mean, heartbreaking is probably a better word. I'd written an article about that to a greater degree on my substack and just kind of expressed my devastation.

And so I think it's important to say those words, you know, that those of us who were a part of, who are a part of G3, especially myself, Scott, Laramie, those who are in the office and work day to day, we're shocked and we're surprised by what transpired.

I say that because it's interesting as you are in the inner circle of issues like this and you watch others comment about it from the outside, it's interesting how they perceive it. And many thought that for some odd reason, there was some cabal where Scott or myself or others had knew that this was happening and were in on it to some degree.

And that's the farthest thing from the truth. I think both the members of the board and others have who know us and know of the situation firsthand have made it clear that none of us knew that what Josh was engaged in was something that we were aware of.

And of course, as the news came out, we were as devastated and shocked as anyone else. I kind of attribute this or connect this with any person, a female husband and wife who the husband cheats on his wife.

And then the question is, what did she know? Well, she didn't know. And she may have had thoughts about it or questions about it, but didn't know firsthand. And that's kind of where we are. And again, I don't want to equate what Josh did with any kind of sexual sin.

It's unfortunate in the day in which we live, you have to be very careful, A, what you say and B, make sure that within that same framework, you're articulating what you mean by what you say. We're in a very divided, very challenged, very soundbite oriented Christian culture even.

And so it's with that I want to make those points clear. I don't think anyone who heard this wasn't hurt by it, wasn't saddened by it to see another another leader who was caught in sin fall and for him to start the process of being submitted to elders and to walking out true repentance.

As it relates to that, you know, again, those from afar can make judgments about what is true repentance and what is not. I will tell you, you know, I think it will require some time for us to examine what true repentance actually is or isn't, does or doesn't look like.

I will say as I've interacted with Josh Bice and with others, I know he's broken about his sin. I know he's walking through, you know, the magnitude and the impact of what he's done. And time will tell.

I think I think we need to give people time. We're in such a soundbite culture and such a, you know, a Twitter kind of frenzy, ex frenzy to ensure that within the next feed, within the next hour, two hours, three hours that all the answers are provided and given.

And that's just not reality. So, you know, it's with that that I, you know, that I I'd say, you know, we're doing well. We're navigating the issue where I think the board has responded in excellent fashion as it relates to trying to be transparent with the public who's interested to know about what's going on.

And the elders, to the best of their ability, have tried to do exactly the same thing. No one is perfect in their in that process. But I think everybody is trying their best, given the hand they're dealt, to to navigate the issue with integrity and with honesty.

Amen. Well, I am very thankful to God that although your update and report on Josh's repentance is cautious, you still offer optimism. And and I am thrilled about that. Josh has been nothing but extremely kind and generous to me over the years and providing me with wonderful opportunities, making me feel very much at home every time I was there at the G3 conferences, seemingly bending over backwards to accommodate me.

And I will always have the fondest memories of Josh. I hope that a friendship can be restored at some point in the future. And I am going to be praying as I am now. I am going to be continue to, I'm going to continue to pray for he and his wife and his children.

I hope that they are very soon, if they are not already, integrated into a sound congregation and that he continues to bear the fruits of repentance. Is there any update that you want to give us about Praise Mill Baptist Church as far as?

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think Praise Mill is doing the best it can under the set of circumstances and conditions. They lost a pastor. You know, I mean, you got to consider that someone who they loved and have had a relationship with for many, many years, more than over a decade.

You can imagine the pain that that causes, the hurt that that is. And again, I don't want to speak for the entire church, nor am I representing Praise Mill. But just as a member there, we're all impacted by what took place.

And it's a challenge. And it's a part of a process of navigating sin when it happens and walking that out, especially sin that was so public. I would not wish any of what transpired on anyone. It's not a good, it's not a great feeling to walk through.

At the same time, what I try to operate in is from a standpoint of grace. Brother, I am the worst of sinners. And, you know, while my sin does not look like someone else's, doesn't look like Josh's, doesn't look like, you know, yours or anyone else's, I've got my own sin to deal with and address.

And so, you know, I think it just requires the whole situation requires some self-reflection and to ensure that, you know, word not for God's grace, there go I, right? That I could be found in the same condition.

That's my automatic default response when I hear these stories, whether it was Steve Lawson, my first impulse is, okay, what in my life can I shore up to ensure that I don't find myself in the same condition, situation, circumstance?

And so we make some changes around how I travel and that I travel with my wife and, you know, wanting to make sure that there's accountability in place to ensure that I don't fall. And the same is true in this instance, you know, as it pertains to online and social media and how we interact in that space and what we say and how we say it, you know, making sure that there's some level of accountability.

And I'm not perfect in that. So I don't operate in this conversation or in any other from a standpoint of self-righteousness. I'm not righteous, but by the blood of Christ. But I can look at a situation and say, hey, this was sinful.

It was impactful. It needed to be addressed. And I believe that those who are in leadership are doing the best that they can to try to address it and navigate it. And Praise Mill is functioning in the way that you would think that it would as a church who's had their leader removed and he resigned and are trying their best to get their footing and move forward.

Well, I would urge all of you who listen to Iron Sharp and Zoning Radio to continue to pray for Josh Bice and his family and for the saints at Praise Mill Baptist Church as they face serious questions about their future and as they review candidates for the pastoral ministry and everything else that they need to do to move forward and that the Lord would continue to bless that congregation mightily as it has in the past.

And my heart's still broken over this, but I'm looking forward to hearing Praise reports, not only from you, but eventually from Josh. And I think that many people are too bold in their nastiness when they respond or react to things like this that they hear.

And many of those people would never fare any better if they were in charge of an enormous ministry like G3. And please don't misunderstand me, folks. I'm not undermining or softening the seriousness of Josh's sin.

But at the same time, we've got to recognize that Satan is definitely roaming around like a prowling lion. And when he sees a ministry growing and bearing such wonderful fruit, he is no doubt going to be attacking it and its leaders and tempting us.

And we have to be more steadfast in our prayer life and in taking precautionary measures, as you just said you did, so that we don't fall into the same trap, especially those who are in these large ministries such as G3.

So now tell us some of the good news about G3 itself. There were those that were really pessimistic about G3 surviving this, but you've got a lot more optimism about G3 pressing forward.

Yeah, of course. I know what's behind the scenes. I know what we do in that office on a day-to-day basis. I know the talent that's in that room. It's much smaller than you think for such a powerful impact.

It's just a handful of us that are actually there that are doing day-to-day operations. Myself, Dr. Scott Annual, Larry Minga, of course, Harris Bice, who is our administrative assistant, and then we have Christy, who works in the accounting area.

Outside of that, we have a lot of relationships that we connect with, third party, that help us do a wide range of things, but the brainchild there is the brain trust, so to speak. It's kind of within that executive team, myself, Scott Annual, and it had been up to this point, Josh Bice.

The board has stepped into that space and is providing direction and instruction and leadership and that whole thing, and we've been doing all right. We've been kind of licking our wounds, but moving forward as well.

My thought is there will be, in the days to come, you'll see a lot of great things from.

G3.

No one's folding the tent. No one's calling it, packing it in. No one's ending things there. I think the board is very focused on what they can do to restructure, redesign, and reshape G3 so that it fulfills its mission of encouraging, equipping, and educating local church pastors in sound biblical doctrine.

So that's the goal. That's the process, and that hasn't stopped.

Amen, and I understand that there, at least in the seed stages, there is discussion about future conferences, that all hope is not lost for those of us who absolutely loved and look forward to, with bated breath, attending the G3 conferences.

Yeah, yeah, there is. I don't want to get ahead of any board announcement about that, so I'll table that. But simply to say that, you know, I think, could I see a day when G3 has conferences again on maybe a smaller scale, a local level, or in a regional space?

Absolutely. I don't see why not. You know, they'd love to do that. There's no reason not to. But again, I won't get ahead of any announcement that the board would want to make about what that is or where that is or who would be involved in that or what that looks like.

But needless to say, there's the hope that that will be the case in the days ahead.

And I'm assuming that G3 Publishing Ministry is still in existence.

Yeah, there was just an email blast that went out to all those who follow G3 closely. And the letter, kind of, Scott Anuel kind of put it out and just basically said, you know, that we will continue the work that we have done through G3 Press, developing, you know, curricula and teaching tools and G3 Plus with all of its resources that are indeed available and a number of different workshops that we've done, worship, biblical worship workshops and the like.

And so I think you'll continue to see us, you know, doing the things that we've done well and, you know, amplifying just faithful pastors in the days ahead rather than the kind of celebrity culture that folks right now are seeming to push back against.

We want to identify local men who are preaching the word well and amplify their voices, whether it's through articles that they write or whether it's through podcast interviews that they engage in or even resources that they have that local churches have benefited from that could be placed on a larger platform for others to enjoy.

So there's a wide range of different things that can and will be done and that will continue in the days to come. And so I think with the launch of the new logo and kind of a renewed focus that we've had as of late, that information has gone out.

I think people will enjoy what they see in that space as well.

So, amen. Well, we're going to go to our first commercial break, and when we come back, we're going to switch gears, and Virgil is going to discuss the LA riots when chaos becomes policy. And if you have a question of your own, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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That's royaldiadem .com, mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Virgil Walker, and we have transitioned from our updates on G3 to discuss the LA riots when chaos becomes policy. And if you could, Virgil, give us an update, or should I say give us some background information on the specific riots that you are mentioning for those of our listeners who are so sick of the bad news in the media that they've been tuning out of it.

Give us some background information about.

Why you wanted to discuss this. Yeah, I think this is an incredibly important issue, particularly for those of us who consider ourselves evangelical and believers to discuss, because on the one hand, the issues that are causing the riots have everything to do with mass illegal immigration.

So on the one hand, I think you have folks who love the Lord, who want to follow Christ, who believe that the only right response is to proceed with compassion, proceed with resources, proceed with what can we do to help the least of these.

And so those folks are wondering why, for example, ICE agents are out looking for those who have crossed the border illegally and perhaps committed crimes or criminal acts. Their concern, their thought is, shouldn't there be more compassion?

In fact, you have a great many of them who are not simply—most of them are not out on the streets. Most of them you'll find online who ask the question, what happened to the love of Christ? What happened to the kind of Christian compassion that we should demonstrate for those who are unfortunate, who are less fortunate than we are, who are oppressed, who are seeking refuge in the United States?

On the other end, you have those Christians who are upset and angry about all of what they're seeing in the way of mass illegal immigration and the policies that enabled it to take place. And their question is, I wanted to stop and I want to stop now.

So whatever it takes to get those people out of our country—and the emphasis may be for some of those people—whatever it takes to get them out of our country and back to the land they belong to, they need to be there.

One of the reasons why I wrote the article was because I really believe that the response that we're seeing as ICE tries to go into areas of California and identify people who are here illegally and who have committed crimes, one of the reasons for the outrage is that we have fostered a culture that just says, you know what, if you raise enough havoc, if you say, you know, if you riot, well, that's the voice of the unheard, and we need to listen to them.

And so what normally happens as a result of that is those voices do get heard, and they usually get accommodated in some way, shape, or form. In the piece, I actually walked back through the fact that this is pretty typical out in LA, and Los Angeles has a shameful history of violence and destructive riots.

You had the Watts riots in 1965. You had Rodney King's riots in 1992. Of course, the George Floyd riots in 2020, and then now this, and all of that, each time we're kind of told to understand root causes and to empathize with frustrated voices and to see riots as the language of the unheard.

And all of this, my argument is all of this, every time there's a riot, it's always wrong, and there's no way to couch it any other way. Violence against innocents is sinful, and the destruction of property is theft.

Attacking law enforcement, that's rebellion against God-ordained authority. And it doesn't matter what injustice someone thinks that they're protesting. Grievance cannot justify lawlessness. And so that's kind of the crux of the argument that I make in the piece, and that we as believers have got to not lend ourselves to right-leaning politics, conservative politics, or left-leaning progressivism, but that we've got to go back to what the Word of God says about these things and really thwart what I see as absolute rebellion.

What we're seeing in the streets of LA with these riots and these pushbacks and these sanctuary cities providing protection and cover for criminal activity, what needs to happen is Christians need to stand up in the public square and say, we're not having this.

And here's the truth. If you've crossed the border illegally, you've violated constitutional requirements. You've violated the laws of our country. And as a result, at any time, regardless of how many years you've been able to be a productive quote-unquote citizen, at any time, you've got to recognize that if law enforcement ends up finding you and apprehending you, that there's a real possibility that you'll be sent back to your home of origin, that people should expect that.

People should recognize that as they break the law. And believers should be trying to do their best to let those folks know that they need to find a way to enter the country legally and to do so in ways that honor God and honor the country that they're choosing to come to.

The other crazy thing, Chris, and I'll turn it back over to you, that I saw as I watched the LA riots and as they continue to kind of drone on is the protesters waving the flags of the countries that they've left.

That just does not make any logical sense to me, that you would leave a country that you could not find benefit from, could not find opportunity in, and in some instances were actually leaving because of the illegal activity that took place there, whether it was drug lords or drug cartels or the like, and that you would get to the new country and that in that new country in America, you would wave a flag of a nation you're no longer from.

Those kinds of things are illogical leaps, and they really kind of show you the nature of just the deficient knowledge, understanding, education that people have about what they're.

Protesting. Yes. Although I have met people over my 63 years of existence, some of whom have been friends of mine, one particular couple that were very precious to me who are now in heaven. They were, I think, about 20 years older than me, and they were from England.

The husband would very often compare his British homeland with the United States, and he would litter his comments with insults towards America and a lot of warm, nostalgic memories of England. And although I never said this to him, I kept my mouth zippered shut.

I was so tempted to say to him on occasion, why did you leave? Why are you in here? But having said that, there is a listener who has, I think, an excellent question on that very issue. The listener is Gordon, who is located in Whately, Massachusetts.

And Gordon says, do you think that a lot of the things that you are mentioning, such as Mexicans waving Mexican flags, etc., are not really the agenda behind those who are protesting, but it's all a part of a bigger plot by leftists such as.

George Soros, who fund these things? I don't doubt that. I think all of those things can be true, right? Can George Soros be providing money to people so that they can disrupt, thwart the agenda of the President of the United States?

Absolutely. But I think, I wrote this in a piece that these current riots kind of reveal something particularly disturbing, that rioters are not even pretending to seek justice within the American system.

People are waving foreign flags while attacking American law enforcement with Molotov cocktails. They are really rejecting America's right to exist as a sovereign nation. So whether they're funded through Soros or whatever other political means, or they're just individual agitators, I think the truth holds that they're rejecting America's right to exist as a sovereign nation.

They want to be the ones who make the rules. They want to be the ones who dictate the laws. And they want those laws and rules to advantage them rather than to protect those of us taxpayers, taxpayers though we may be, who in local spaces are overrun by the number of illegals who are crossing the border.

Every time I hear an argument in favor of this, I always think about the leftists who wants to virtue signal, who wants to tell you and me and others who are for the policies that we're seeing from the administration.

Those folks, if you ask them to a person how many illegals they're opening up their home to, the answer is none. And if you were to show up at their doorstep with a dozen or more people from a foreign country to stay with them and to live and to live in whatever manner they saw fit based upon their own culture and customs, no one would open their doors for that.

No one would open their doors to the degree that more and more people every day, and if every day I brought another dozen people and another dozen people and another dozen people, no one would keep their doors open for that or believe that they were doing something noble by it.

They wouldn't do it. All of it's a virtue signal. None of them would do this themselves. And so I really, you know, anyone who holds the opposing point of view or perspective that I do on this issue, I just think they're not being honest with themselves about what they're willing to take.

They just think it's best for our country as a whole to absorb anywhere between 12 to 20 million people who've crossed into our country illegally.

Amen. And we have Wendy in Fernandina Beach, Florida, and Wendy says, what is the best Christian approach when having conversations with folks who are either participating in riots such as this or promoting or giving their blessing to them, and sometimes even giving historic precedent like the Boston Tea Party and other things that patriotic Americans.