Open Air Theology -with Jacob Tanner “Everything John Knox”

What are you doing? What are you doing? You never light a cigar that way. You use a wooden match, preserves the flavor, you see.

But the worst curse would come upon the one who seduced him, whose head would be crushed by the seed of the woman. And the punishment was too severe?

What's wrong with you people? Are you ready to get back to work?

With pleasure.

So, Senor Kramer, what is this about?

I choose to believe the Bible because it's a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report to us supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human in origin.

Don't any of you have any guts to play for blood?

I'm your huckleberry.

But because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.

I don't know why you're clapping. I'm talking about you. I didn't come here to get amens. I didn't come here to be applauded. I'm talking about you.

Opening the Show and Introducing the Guests

Hello, hello, hello and welcome to Open Air Theology. It's always hard to start after hearing Paul Washer just say, I'm talking about you. It's like tear-jerking and then we're starting to say hi to people.

So anyway, welcome to Open Air Theology. It's a great blessing to be on the show tonight with these good brothers in the Lord here. I think we have a really awesome show prepared for you. My name is Braden Patterson.

I'm the pastor of Grace Bible Church here in Moorpark, California. We meet on Sundays at 1030 in the morning. So if you live in Southern California, it'd be a great blessing to see you here with us either tomorrow or on a coming Lord's Day.

Please, if you are watching this show on either, we'll click some things here real fast for us. If you're watching this show on Striving for Eternity, thank you for supporting Striving for Eternity and Andrew Rappaport.

We'd be greatly blessed if you would consider going on to YouTube and subscribing to our YouTube channel, Open Air Theology. Look that up, subscribe, and please continue to check out our content. Also, we have a special guest that we'll be talking about here in a moment.

But go to founders .org and check out Jacob Tanner's new book, Resist Tyrants, Obey God. We're going to be talking about that book specifically tonight. Also, we have, let's see if I can get it to display here.

Oh, it's not displaying for me. Oh, there it goes.

It's there.

It's there. It wasn't there for me. All right. 2025 Grace and Truth Conference. Go check this out. You're not going to want to miss this. We'll talk about this again later with Brother Tom Shepard, of course, as he's one of the speakers there.

And on that note, I'm going to pass the mic down to our dear brother in the Lord, Brantley.

Please introduce yourself.

Hey, guys. I'm Brantley McDonald. I'm with Coram Deo Reformed Baptist Church in Stanley, North Carolina, outside of Charlotte. So if you're in the area, please feel free to come and join us on the Lord's Day for worship.

We meet in the evenings currently. And a lot of you folks know me with the 1689 .com, 1689 Reformed Baptist. And thank you for having me on.

Yeah. Should I go now?

Jacob, yep, you're good. You send it.

Yeah.

Just making sure I'm in the right direction here. Hey, so thanks for having me on the show. I'm Jacob Tanner, the pastor of Christ Keystone Church in Middleburg, Pennsylvania. So if anybody listening to this is in the central Pennsylvania area, which is actually a very large area.

But if you're nearby and you're looking for a Reformed church to come to, we would be more than happy to have you. We've been there for two years now, and the Lord has been blessing the work there. So just really looking forward to see what the Lord continues to do with our church over the next few years.

I'm also a Christian school administrator slash principal at Juniata Christian School. And I work with various ministries, particularly on podcasting and writing. So like we're going to be talking about here, a new book through founders on John Knox, Resist Tyrants, Obey God.

One of my absolute favorite theologians, pastors, one of my heroes of the faith, if you will. So really looking forward to this conversation with you brothers. And of course, was able to meet Tom a few months ago, actually in person, which is highly unusual because I feel like I have a lot of internet friends that I don't get to meet, but I got to meet you, Tom.

Yes, you did. Yeah. So my name is Tom Sheppard and I'm a member of Grace Bible Church of Bernie, Texas. And it's about 20 miles north of San Antonio. And we gather Sunday in the morning and evenings. So please come visit us.

If you wanted to hear the book on Romans, it just finished. But the good thing is there's other books of the Bible that we're going to be going through. So Pastor Michael Beck, he's my pastor. He's going to be preaching.

Matter of fact, I think we're going on a series. He's going to be teaching on a series on giving for the next few weeks and stuff. And before he announces his new book, I saw a post on Facebook and I think he's going to go through the Gospel of John, which is going to be great.

But in the evenings, he's attacking Job right now, which is an awesome book. So I'm a co-host here at Open Air Theology. I'm also the host of Even If None, which is an evangelistic ministry. We go out on the street and we preach the gospel.

And yes, I met Jacob at the Grace and Truth Conference last August. And so it's going to be exciting to hear him preach, guys. It's absolute fire. And to be an honored speaker this year. So yeah, there it is right there.

You got David Weber. He is the host. He's the host of the church that we're going to be preaching at. We have Greg Morton Jr. I can't remember if Trevor's going to be there. Kevin Hay is going to be there.

Jacob, John Speed, myself, Brandon Scalf, Kofi, Claude Ramsey, you guys. Oh, Nick White, you guys. It's going to be a great conference. Please come and visit us. And then we got this guy.

This guy right here. Are you pointing towards me or are you pointing the other way?

Yeah, look, that went right to you. Look, I read him. Why is that? Well, it's the light.

I thought you need to be pointing this way. I'm so confused right now. Wait, am I in that direction?

Here, am I pointing the right way now?

You are, Jacob.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

What am I doing?

You're pointing the opposite way, brother.

Well, technically, he is pointing the right way. Because if I point your way, I point right.

There you go. Okay, see, it's weird because I'm on the right. Yeah, I can't see it anyway.

I think we're mirrored.

There we go.

We're good.

There we go.

Yeah, it's a great blessing to be on here tonight with you, brothers. Again, it's a great blessing to be able to talk about Christ here with our audience. Please get the word out about our show. Share this along with some people.

Hopefully, we can get just more interaction. We really like to talk about, interact with our audience, be able to answer any sort of apologetic questions that we can, and also just address questions at large.

Introducing the Book on John Knox

So I think we have something special tonight. We are talking specifically tonight about this book that we've had displayed on our show a couple of weeks now, Resist Tyrants, Obey God. I think we can see there the name on that book.

We've got Jacob Tanner live with us right now to answer questions about this book. Also, Brantley, actually, there was something that you wanted to throw a plug into that you had. I saw that. I apologize for not addressing that.

Do you have something that you wanted to chat about before we jumped into that?

No, you're good. I'll say two things real quickly. First and foremost, with this book, we are giving that book and several other books away as part of a giveaway in our 1689 .com Discord community. We got over 1 ,000 different users in there, so good luck on winning.

There's only one winner. But that will be shipping sometime at the end of April, I think, right? So that's our Easter giveaway. So there's a lot of other books in there on civil government and Christianity.

Two books from Founders, two books from G3, two already out, two that are coming out. But yeah, the other thing was, I'm sorry that was last minute, but Ryan Cornett, if you're watching this stream, I know you watched the last stream.

He'd kill me if I didn't make mention of the project that me and him are working on right now through the—probably it's going to take all year, maybe even into 2026. Right now, we are trying to work on getting BaptistHymnal .org across the finish line.

So if you're musically inclined, check out BaptistHymnal .org and click the volunteer button, and it'll give you all the information. So be sure to check that out.

BaptistHymnal, you said.

BaptistHymnal .org or at BaptistHymnal on Instagram or whatever. Basically, all free public domain content, trying to make it very easy for churches to be able to worship. We're going to have the Psalter from the 1912 Psalter, which is in the public domain now, and a selection of hymns as well.

Good.

These package PDFs, plus some other selections outside of that package PDF that you could pull separately if you wanted.

Wonderful.

Work in progress.

Great, brother. That's great to hear.

I'm excited. I'm going to have to go check that out. I just typed it in my phone and took a screenshot of it, so I won't forget. I'm going to check it out later. Well, so, brother Jacob, this is the book right here.

There we go.

When is the release date of this book? Let me ask you that. Maybe that's a good first question.

I have no idea. People already have it.

People already have it.

Yeah.

I thought the release was April, which is what I was telling people. I wish at this point I could hold up the book and go, but look, here it is. Lots of people have it. I don't. I know it exists. It was sold at the Founders Conference.

One person even told me that they pre-ordered on the website and that it shipped out already. I'm like, that's great. I don't have a copy yet, but I know it exists.

Did you pre-order it?

I did. I did. They just didn't ship it to me. I didn't get author copies. Nothing. No, they're coming. They're coming. But I think what Founders does is they do like a pre-release phase. So I'm pretty sure people who pre-ordered early on already got the book or they were able to pick it up at the Founders Conference.

And I think now if you pre-order it, you might have to wait until April. If I understand correctly, that's how this works. So I think the official release date is April. But if other people are like, hey, look, I got it.

They actually do have it. They were able to get it early through the pre-release phase, which is cool. I think that's a cool thing that they do there. That is good.

Before I ask you why John Knox, you did write some other books. What are some other titles that you've written?

Okay. So I did through G3 Publishing. I did Why Sally Can't Preach. That was 2023. I wrote that one. So that was like the first big one that I did. And then corresponding with that was another book through Wrath and Grace Publishing, Union with Christ, which is all about the doctrines of grace.

And then I followed those two up with a book on John Bunyan through Christian Focus Publishing. They're out of Scotland. So that's The Tinker's Progress, The Life and Times of John Bunyan. And I guess technically my most recent would still be Wait and Hope, Puritan Wisdom for Joyful Suffering.

And that's the Reformation Heritage books. So that's my most recent one, because technically the Knox one isn't out yet. This is the pre-release phase. But, yeah, so those are the ones that we've done so far.

Yeah.

So what did Humboldt Clay say? He goes, this show's nearly beardless.

Yeah.

So I'm holding down the beards, guys. I mean, this is it.

Tom's holding the line.

Yeah.

I'm doing the best I can, Humboldt. Clay.

Humboldt. Clay, I'm sorry. I wish I could do. I wish I could have one like you, Tom.

Thank you.

This is it.

Well, actually, mine is cut back, because remember, it was down to here. And I actually had to.

It was.

Yeah, I had to. So hopefully by August, it'll all be fully.

I had this a little bit longer today, but my wife, she doesn't let me go any longer than that. Yeah, she's like, it was terrible.

Braden tried, and then he moved to California.

It didn't work out.

I tried.

I gave it a good shot. It didn't happen. But decided to go back to the mustache. It's kind of my signature look now. I got to keep it.

You got to have a signature.

Why John Knox Matters

So, Jacob, you are a Baptist, right?

Yeah.

But so why did you go with a Presbyterian?

So, like all good Baptists, my favorite theologians are Presbyterians, you know. So it's funny, honestly, because if you were to ask me for my favorite theologians, I'm pretty sure top 10, probably 75 of that list would all be Presbyterian guys.

And then, of course, John Owen, which I guess you could say is Congregationalist. But anyway, Knox is one of those guys that I first came across. I want to say I was about 15, 16 years old. I was reading through Calvin's Institutes at the time and found all of these different free books, and I came across Knox's books.

And I think the very first one maybe that I would have picked up or downloaded for my Kindle at the time would have been the first trumpet blast against the monstrous regime of women, which I didn't read fully.

Like, I started reading it and I was like, wow, this guy is interesting. But I have no idea what he's even talking about. I don't know what the historical implications of this are. Like, who is the Jezebel in view here?

Lots of questions. And then I picked up, because I love history, his history of the Reformation in Scotland. And again, the free version I had downloaded at the time had his sort of old English way of writing in it.

So I read it as far as I could. And then I want to say I dropped it, but I was fascinated by it. And I was especially fascinated by some of the things I started reading about him at the time. So I'm a teenager at this point.

But as a teenage boy, there is something that is utterly compelling about reading about a man that's literally going up to a queen who is killing Protestants as a Protestant and saying, you're evil, you're wicked.

You need to repent of this evil and this wickedness or the Lord's going to strike you down. And it's just, whoa, where do you get that sort of thunder from? Where does that lightning come from to be able to take a stand against tyranny?

When you know that your life is very well on the line, you could be killed for this. So I've had this immense fascination with Knox for years. And then eventually, when I started preaching, I think it was Charles Spurgeon that really ignited the passion for me, for Knox.

Because I forget where it is, but Spurgeon talks about Knox. And he says that he was like this lightning rod. He would call forth lightning from on high. Whenever he would preach, lightning would strike.

And I was like, that is what I want to be as a preacher. I want to be able to preach like that. But what else is there to him? And so it just started this fascination with me where I've been reading his works for years.

A couple of years back, my wife actually picked up for me the Banner of Truth complete set of his works. And when we first got it, I believe it was a Christmas present. Again, it's old English for the most part.

And she looked at it and she was like, are you sure you're going to like this? And I was like, I'm going to love this. And yeah, it's just been one of these great blessings in my life. It might be weird to say, because I think when people think of John Knox, they don't typically think of a guy who you're blessed by reading.

But for me, it has been a distinct privilege to be able to learn at the feet of Knox, as it were, through reading his writings.

As you read through his works and stuff like that, what's most surprising about him that you didn't know that you're like, wow, this is pretty awesome?

So I write about this in the book. But the thing that I think surprised me the most is his pastoral clarity and his love for his people. Because, again, when you think of Knox, what you have is a guy who, in a lot of ways, he's on the run multiple times.

In a lot of ways, he can be rash. He can make really snap decisions that kind of mess things up for multiple people. He's very, very flawed, very, very human, very much. He believes totally in what he's doing, but he's constantly having to run around.

He's getting kicked out of different places. At one point, Calvin's even like, you got to leave Geneva, man. There's just all of these different problems going on for him constantly, it seems.

Just because he's so radical or what?

He could be. He could be. So, for example, going back to the first Trumpet Blast. When he wrote that, he published it anonymously, but it caused so many issues. Now, everything he said in it is true. I mean, I would agree with him.

He's right in what he is saying. And the other reformers, the magisterial reformers, they agreed with him as well. But, for example, Calvin would later look at it and he'd go, I really wish he didn't write this.

Because it's caused us so many issues. Like, for example, Queen Elizabeth takes the throne in England. And rather than the Protestants being able to really work with her, like Calvin and the others in Geneva, she's immediately on her guard because she's like, this guy Knox, your buddy over here, wrote this book.

And it seems like he really hates me. He's calling me a Jezebel and he wants my head. And it's like, no, that's not what he wanted. But that rashness was a form of radicalization, I suppose. But, despite that, every church this guy went to that he pastored, he loved those people.

And in a way, this shouldn't be surprising to me. Because everybody knows that famous quote from Knox, Lord, give me Scotland or I die. And I think a lot of the times, at least when I used to read that, I'd be like, arrogant guy.

He wants all of Scotland for himself. He wants to rule it. That's not at all what that quote is saying. When he says, give me Scotland or I die, what he is praying for is the evangelism. He is praying for the salvation of the Scots.

And he wants them to be saved. He wants them to be brought into the kingdom of God because he loved his country. He loved his people. And primarily, he loved his church. So wherever he was set to pastor, he loved those people.

So we kind of talked about this before the show went on. And I wanted to hit this and everything. Because I know that he had followed around an evangelist before he got started. What was that like? What was the guy's name?

And the reason why I asked that is because this is what I do. It was the thing that really Matter of fact, when I actually started, knew I was going to do the interview, I went and watched a small biography.

And was talking about this evangelist that he walked around and he wanted to guard. He wanted to be the bodyguard. And that he had two swords with him protecting the evangelist. Tell us a little bit about that.

How did that go?

Knox, the Evangelist, and the Call to Preach

So Knox started off in kind of a strange way. And I think you got to go back a little bit to understand how this exactly works out for him. Knox was not necessarily quick to embrace the Reformation like some other guys were.

It took him some time. So he was studying to be a priest. He was Roman Catholic just like everybody else at that point in time. And he was not necessarily exceptional in his studies. But he did show promise.

And so it was easy for him then to get a job as sort of like a tutor. And he would not only be a priest, but he would tutor these young people, these kids. Again, things worked differently back then.

How old was he?

How old was he? He probably was in his 20s, 30s at this point. So he's tutoring different students. But he also is starting to catch something of the Reformation. So this tiny little event happens in 1517 where this German guy decides to nail a document to a church, castle.

Some other things happen along the way. But Reformation doctrine. So think of things like the five souls, like scripture alone is our authority. Think of things like Christ alone is our savior and our intercessor.

All of these ideas start to flood into Scotland just as they're going all across the European continent. And finally, they're starting to impact Knox. So now the gears are turning, right? And he's starting to think, OK.

So I've been teaching this. I've been thinking this. But actually, that makes a lot of sense. So that seems like this is what the Bible actually teaches. That Christ alone is our Lord, our savior, our redeemer.

Maybe we don't need a pope. And then as he would continue to go through these different ideas as they were being brought forth into Scotland, it began to radically shift and alter his mind. It's at this point that he begins to hear preaching, actual reformed Protestant preaching coming into Scotland.

And he loves what he is hearing. He's not sure what to do with it at first. But he's compelled by it to do something. And so one of these men, eventually, he kind of goes underneath his tutelage, if you will.

And he wants to learn more about what is it to be reformed? What is it to be Protestant? And so he begins to follow this particular man around sort of as a bodyguard, like you said. Now, do you remember which documentary you watched?

I can't remember what it was. So I watched a couple of them. Some of them were 15 minutes just to get a great idea. And then immediately when I heard that, I kind of clicked off of Knox and I wanted to go after The Evangelist.

Because I've not heard the story.

So now Tom's writing a book on The Evangelist.

You know, you might be the first to write a book on The Evangelist. No, I think somebody actually did write a book on him. I'm trying to think what the name of that book would have been. Anyway, regardless.

So you're right.

Knox starts to follow around this evangelist who's going around the Scottish countryside basically preaching the gospel. And he takes up swords to kind of defend him. Now, this is what we were talking about beforehand a little bit.

Did he ever use them? As far as I can tell, probably not. Maybe he would have, like, raised them in defense. Maybe if, like, bandits would have come or something, you know, he would have been prepared.

What's interesting about him is I think he would have used them given the chance. He just strikes me. Whenever you read the stuff that he has to say, he strikes me as the sort of guy that 100 full force would have taken those swords out.

You know, like a Peter moment. Cut off anybody's ear that was in the way. But eventually what happens is it gets to a point where this evangelist that he's following around, they know he's going to be arrested.

And that's what's happening. A lot of Protestants at this point are being arrested. They're being executed. And Knox wants to go with him to the gallows, basically. So he's like, if they're going to take you, they're going to kill you.

I will fight for you. And this evangelist says to Knox, no, don't do that. Because those who kill with the sword must prepare to be killed with the sword. Don't waste your life like that. You have you have a different purpose from the Lord.

And basically what this guy encourages him to do is to start preaching. So so take up the mantle that's falling here today. Go forth and preach the word. Now, he doesn't say it exactly like that, but he's able to go forth and he's able to begin preaching.

And in probably one of the most difficult ways imaginable. So, again, this is sort of the the controversy of Knox, I guess, the this sort of power struggle in his life, the constant back and forth. Though he's willing to die for this evangelist, though he is fully embracing Protestant Protestantism and reform doctrine, he's afraid to preach.

He does not want to preach. And so he doesn't take up his sword. Even though I believe he was wholeheartedly willing to do it. He doesn't take up his sword. He drops it. Evangelist gets arrested. He's killed.

There's this whole revolt that happens in the castle. I write about all of this in the book. But fast forward and Knox realizes he's been wandering the countryside, kind of fleeing from all of these different things because, you know, he was the bodyguard.

And now he's got to get out of here. Well, the people that have fled into the castle after the killing of this evangelist, they invite him into the castle. Now they're all stuck inside of a castle together and they realize we don't have a preacher.

We don't have a pastor. Now there's a guy preaching, but they need somebody who's actually going to, again, take up the mantle. And eventually, similar thing happens to Calvin. Knox is almost guilted into doing it, where he's the guy comes in front of the entire congregation of people at the castle.

And he says, Knox, the Lord has called you to preach. Paraphrasing quite a bit here. Yeah, the Lord has called you to preach and you cannot reject that call. And he just goes through this whole thing.

And you would think it's going to be one of those moments where Knox, like, sits up straight, rises up to the challenge. He's ready to go. Not at all. What happens? Instead, Knox begins to weep loudly and runs from the room out of it into his own chambers and hides there for a while.

It's not at all what you would expect.

Out of fear of men or out of fear of what he was the task that he was getting presented to do out of the calling?

The latter. The latter, I would say, for sure. And you can see this again. One of the other famous quotes from Knox that he trembles every time he steps in the pulpit. I fear no man, but I tremble every time I step into the pulpit, which actually is a quote that I with me.

I've kept it with me since I've started preaching. I always have it as a bookmark, whatever chapter I'm preaching that Sunday. That's the quote I like to read beforehand.

Yeah.

Do we?

So anyway, I've been rambling here because I like talking about Knox.

No, that's great.

Yeah.

This is fantastic. We're like, just give us the book. Just give us the book.

If I had it, I would.

You're waiting for the book too.

No.

The Courage and Theology of John Knox

So that, brother, everything you're saying is just captivating. I think it's given the audience a reason why you guys should be going and pre-ordering or ordering, getting this book here soon from people, from founders.

But why, what would you, what would, how would you articulate? What's the biggest reason why a Christian should care about the story of John Knox?

Oh man, that's a good question. You know, it's almost like, why do you care about any Christian story? Right. And what I have found personally is outside of reading the scriptures, and I'm a theology guy through and through.

They're all around me. But outside of reading the scriptures, the biggest blessing in my life, again and again and again, is reading about these old saints, reading biographies about them. Like, for example, you can't see it, but off to the side right now, I have the diary and journals of David Bernard, which Jonathan Edwards helped put out.

Just an immense, immense help and encouragement to read about how God has used these godly men. And of course, godly women as well, but how God has used these godly men to do some absolutely amazing things throughout church history.

So when it comes to John Knox, for example, what you have is a guy personally I can relate to. So I think for a lot of different reasons, I'm attracted to the guys that make a lot of mistakes. The guys that are really, really passionate about what they're doing, but they mess up, right?

They make mistakes.

No, not Christians, right?

Not Christians, no. But there is something that is compelling to me about that because I look at myself and I remember every single day, I'm a sinner saved by grace. I have to repent daily because I sin daily.

Now I look at John Knox and I'm like, yeah, this guy messed up, too. This guy is actually a lot like me, but God used him. And if God could use John Knox, not that I'm John Knox, but surely he can use Jacob Tanner.

Now, it's not just that, though. The other thing that I love about John Knox is the courage that he teaches to us, the boldness that he teaches to us. So, again, he's living at a point in time where you can be killed for being a Protestant.

You can be killed for being a Christian. But he lives as a Protestant Christian anyway. And he does it boldly. He does it courageously. Dare I say he does it proudly because he loves the Lord Jesus Christ and he loves his church.

And he doesn't really care what happens to him. And he goes through some difficult times. So the one thing that I didn't bring up then is after he's in the castle, he preaches like one sermon basically.

And then the castle is overtaken and they're sold as French galley slaves. And for months he's on a ship as a galley slave, which is interesting because I don't know if you brothers remember this. I think this was back in 20, I want to say 2019.

The Shepherd's Conference, John MacArthur that year preached a sermon on how ministers of the gospel are actually galley slaves that were the lowest of the low. And I remember sitting there listening to that and making an immediate connection to John Knox and going providentially by the hand of God.

Is that not amazing that here you have a man who actually served in the lowest of lowest capacities as a galley slave? Nearly dying and then becomes a true minister, a true pastor, a true preacher of the gospel.

So there's a ton of different reasons to read Knox, but encouragement. Number one, he gives us boldness. Number two, number three, a lot of people don't think of him in this way, but his theology is great.

Despite being Presbyterian, you know, impeccable theology. His probably most famous theological treatise is on predestination. And in some ways, maybe he actually gets that doctrine out a little bit more than Calvin did.

Not quite. What is he holding up there?

Calvin on?

Oh yeah, there we go. Cool. So Knox is building upon a lot of what Calvin did. But again, great theological work. And then, of course, if you like history here, you have a firsthand resource of a guy that lived through these events writing about the Reformation in Scotland.

So there's five reasons.