2021 Summer of Interviews: Luke Abendroth Interview (2020) (Part 2)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. Mike Abendroth.

Luke Abendroth. Well, a couple of years ago when I had you on this show, you weren�t acting like this. So what�s it going to be like one day I die, and then you are No Compromise Radio? You�ll take over the helm.

Yeah, I�ll be the one that comes in and talks to myself for 25 minutes.

And acting like people listen.

Yeah, exactly. Acting like all these people around the world listen. They actually probably do, though. I know, keep telling yourself that, Dad. Let�s do this little picture here. Well, that�s nice.

Let�s see, what else are we doing? This is our second show. We�re recording here December 2019, third year that you�ve been here on the show, Luke. Anything interesting happen? There you go, right there.

We�re taking selfies. Anything happen? What? And just a cultural update, anything you want to talk about what you are doing? Oh, okay. How about this? You come to Massachusetts for Christmas. What do you like about Massachusetts?

What do you look forward to when you�re back besides the family? Is there a kind of food, a place you want to go to? Something you like to eat?

What do you like to do? I don�t know. I just come back and then we just sit at the house. Just kidding. I probably watch more TV in the last week and a half than I have in the last six months. It�s good, though.

We watch White Christmas. White Christmas, yeah. Yeah. What else did we watch? The Passion a couple times. Just kidding. No, we didn�t want the Second Commandment being broken in front of our eyes. We should watch Ben-Hur sometime.

Yeah, let�s do it. That would be good. Starts off with the Incarnation. I mean, the manger scene and the crucifixion at the end. Right. You don�t see his face. Oh, that�s good.

Yeah, so I don�t know. It�s just nice to come home and relax and mostly just the people to hang out with you and mom and the girls and friends from church. So it�s just good to come back and see the snow, too.

It�s not really a very Christmassy feeling. Snow, snow, snow. Snow. It won�t be long before. No, it�s not a very Christmassy feeling in L .A. It�s just kind of like you do see a lot of red lights, though, if you�re driving on the other side of the freeway.

Oh, that�s true.

Yes. Uh-huh. Hawaii would be interesting to celebrate Christmas there. I want to go to Christmas Island.

Hmm. How�d you like to spend Christmas? This is the Caroling Show.

How about Elephant Island? Would you ever want to spend Christmas on Elephant Island? Sure. I�ll go anywhere. Who went there? Shackleton. Oh, Shackleton. Yeah, I don�t know if I want to go up there anymore.

Down there? Up there? I think it�s down there. Yeah, I was standing up there. I did try to instill in you, when you were growing up, a love for adventure stories, and from around the world in 80 days, Treasure Island, those fictional things, but also Shackleton, Lewis and Clark, who was the famous World War I shooter, shot him like chickens or something.

Sergeant York. Sergeant York. He�s a believer, too. Uh-huh. I don�t know how he�s still so he�s still around. He actually is a professor at Southern Seminary. Oh, yeah. That�s so cool. He did a really good sermon on Sergeant Herschel York.

What�s that called? Judah and Tamar. Tamar. Yeah, it�s amazing. So, anyway, Luke Abendroth, welcome back. We were talking last show a little bit about Luke 15. We didn�t get very far. The parable of the lost sheep, coin, and son.

Right? Our sons. Our sons. Our sons. When I was working through the program not the program, but the parable, sorry. I�m just trying to get you to scoot up a little bit more. I did not spend, I think, enough time on the love of the Father, because I was too caught up in lost, found, rejoice, and I didn�t really give the reason why there should be that ultimate rejoicing, because it wasn�t driven by the Son, and it wasn�t caused by his own repentance or anything like that.

It was the sheer grace and love of the Father. How do you account for that? How do you bring that out yourself to correct that?

The Father's Love in the Parable of the Prodigal Son

Well, I mean, I think that�s really what Jesus has come to do. For God so loved the world, that�s the love of the Father first, that he sends his only Son. And so, everything starts with I�ve been reading the Communion with God book by John Owen, and everything starts with the Father.

God is love, John tells us. He sends his Son in love, he wants to commune with us in love. And so, I think, you know, if you emphasize other things, other than that, you are missing you know, what did Jesus really come to do is to show us the Father�s love.

So I think you just talk about, you know, I like the, I think it�s in, I don�t know what, the Tale of Two Sons or something, that John MacArthur wrote that book. He talks about despising the shame, that the Father in that honor-shame culture gets up and runs to the Son.

And back then, it wasn�t just like, �Oh, you run, that�s okay, everybody likes to run. It was shameful to run. It�s like, you�re supposed to be sophisticated, you�re the Father, you�re the patriarch.

And he, with all disregard for his own honor, runs to the Son to embrace him, to put the ring on his finger and the sandals on his feet and the robe and kill the fattest calf and just all this symbolism of the spiritual blessings given to a sinner who repents.

And so, I think, you know, it is the main point of the passage, while he is telling us, �Yes, this is the wrong response of the Pharisees. Why are they responding wrongly? It�s because they don�t understand the kingdom of God, they don�t understand the gospel.

And I think, Luke, when I watch that Father running in Jesus� story, that parable, it is the running, because the older men didn�t run in those days. But also, he�s running with initiative, that is to say, he is not waiting for the Son�s repentance and response and this and that and how sorry he must be and how contrite and he doesn�t even really let the Son talk.

He is the one initiating, defying, sovereign, initiating grace, spurred on by love, right?

And it�s interesting, because the Son, right, first of all, but the Son is coming to the Father and he wants to say, �Father, let me be your slave. You know, �I want to be your slave. And the Father embraces him and, in a sense, shuts him down before he can even get those words out of his mouth, which is exactly what the grace of God does to us.

We want to come before God with our dead works, with our sin, with the things that we think are good, and the grace of God in the Gospel stops us and runs towards us and seeks us while we�re ungodly. And so, I love that picture of the Son wanting to come and to clean himself up and to get ready to be embraced or to get to the point where he could be justifiable, and the Father just shuts that down with his great love.

So I think that�s exactly right.

�Father saw him while he was still a long way off. The Father saw him, felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. It doesn�t even say here, at least in the English, �felt compassion, ran, embraced, and kissed.

It�s �and felt compassion, and ran, and embraced, and kissed.

Compassion, Initiative, and the Father's Joy

Yeah, I think it�s interesting, too, there�s, I mean, there�s so many little things from this parable, but I think it�s interesting that he sees him while he�s still a long way off. It�s like he�s looking, he�s looking for the Son to return, and so it�s not even this idea of, �Oh, well, the Son finally comes and makes it.

It�s like the Father is seeking for the Son�s return, looking, waiting. It�s just a great picture of God�s love for the sinner.

It reminds me of John Payton, and remember, he�s leaving Scotland, and his dignified Presbyterian father kind of walks him as far as he can, and then John�s got to go on his own, and, of course, the father might not ever see his son again.

And so John goes a long, long way, and he turns around just to see if he can still see his dad, and there�s his dad just still staring out. He just began to cry. That�s good.

No cell phones. No cell phones. We couldn�t follow each other on Twitter, if that was the case.

No GPS trackers or anything.

I just wanted to bring this up, too. You�re talking about just the rejoicing of the father, and I was just reading in the John Owen book, on Communion with God, and it�s a chapter on Communion with God.

The father, he says, he�s talking about the word used in Zephaniah 3, that he will joy over you with singing, and it says,. �The latter word denotes not the inward affection but the outward demonstration of it.

It seems to be formed of it. It is to exult in outward demonstration of eternal delight and joy, to leap as men overcome with some joyful surprisal, and therefore God is said to do this with a joyful sound or singing.

I just thought that was good, just basically singing and leaping.

God�s singing over us, and he was walking and leaping and praising God.

No, but I thought that was good, and if there�s not some kind of weird, shallow song, it�s John Owen writing directly from Zephaniah 3.

I know. When I think of Zephaniah 3, I think of Jude 24 and 25, that you stand in his presence blameless, with great joy, and so the commentators want to know, whose joy is it? Is it the father�s joy of us, the redeemed children, trophies of the Lamb of God, or is it our joy of being in his presence?

Or a third hermeneutical option, is it a person named Joy that we�re standing with?

Well, the people who are named Joy, they will have great joy. That�s right. Inexpressible and full of glory. Mike Avendroth here with Luke Avendroth on No Compromise Radio. You can always write me, mike at nocompromiseradio .com.

I�ve received a couple emails lately that were very, very encouraging. We don�t know who listens. I don�t know how the Lord uses the show, but we know he blesses his word, and so when you give us those encouraging notes, that spurs us on for another, what, day or so?

That�s right, one day. One day. One day. It�s like a little vitamin. A little vitamin. A men�s one a day. All right, so since you�re going to preach this passage, I want to know this, Luke. When you typically read Luke 15, and it talks about the Father, right, �Father, give me this share.

�The Father did this. �The Father did that. �Father, I�ve sinned against you. Everything�s about the Father. Do you think most evangelicals read this and equate the Father in the parable to God the Father, rather than God the Son?

Explain.

The Father in Luke 15 and the Gospel of Christ

Yeah, I mean, probably. I think that that�s what they do. But isn�t it just a natural. If you were just thinking naturally about it, you probably wouldn�t be thinking this is Jesus.

Right, but isn�t he talking about himself? This is the Lord�s attitude, because this man receives sinners and eats with them. It�s talking about who Jesus is, and then Jesus tells this. And of course, this is the attitude of the Father, God the Father.

It�s a parable. Yeah. But still, I�m thinking, you know what? The commentators that talk about, �Is this the love that Jesus has told in this parable I think we have to reckon with that. Right. What�s another synonym for �reckon

Hmm. Deal. Deal. That�s right. Deal. What do you see going on in evangelicalism? Something good happening in evangelicalism, and something bad happening?

Something good happening, something bad happening.

Something, you know, some encouraging thing on the horizon that you notice with your 23-year-old eyes.

Yes. Very, very wise 23-year-old eyes. Keenly.

Yes. Sometimes I tell people you act like you�re 30, and sometimes you act like you�re 15.

Well, hopefully they average out to my actual age. I think something encouraging. Hmm. You know, it�s easier to be critical, so maybe that tells you something about the human heart. Or our hearts. Well, that�s what I meant by human.

Hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, I think you see a lot of people kind of realizing that the importance of indicative driving imperatives, the gospel being the foundation for our Christian life. I�ve seen and known a lot of people talking about that more and more, where I think you would even say, even in your own ministry and just growing up, there was a lot more kind of brow-beating and sort of this motivation through yelling, or not yelling, but just the idea of� Yelling without raising your voice.

Yeah, the attitude or the tone behind teaching, and I think that that�s changing. I think I see a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people realizing, you know what? The flow and the structure of the New Testament pretty much always is, here�s who you are in Christ, and then here�s the imperatives that flow out of that.

And so, I think that�s an encouraging thing. You see the Christ-centered preaching and just a focus on Christ, and not some kind of quietism where we don�t ever talk about imperatives or the law, but you do see properly distinguishing and saying, here�s the good news, and then here�s how we�re to respond to that.

So, I think that you see that being sort of rediscovered, and so I think that�s an encouraging thing. I think even for myself, and I�ll go to the negative thing in a second.

Let me do the positive one. After you do positive, then we�ll both do negative, so go ahead.

So, I think part of that positive I�ve seen in my own life is just�I mean, now I forgot what I was going to say, something about the positive. I think it was just sort of rediscovering, yeah, just rediscovering the importance of the gospel, like Jerry Bridges talked about, and just that the gospel drives everything in our lives.

Oh, I was saying, it�s not some kind of quietism, it�s, yes, we preach the text, and so, verse by verse, we see there are exhortations, but it�s all in Christ. And I think it�s a good question to ask yourself, what would be your first response to someone that�s sleeping with a prostitute in your church?

Probably for me, even now, it seems weird to say, are you wanting to unite the members of your body, the members of Christ, with the members of a prostitute? Basically, hey, remember, you united to Jesus Christ.

My initial instinct to that would be, you�re not a Christian, and that�s how I�m going to motivate you, is by seeking assurance or whatever, but it�s interesting how union with Christ and sanctification are so connected.

So this is kind of a whole bundle of things and different ideas, but I think you�re seeing a positive thing in evangelicalism as the centrality of the gospel is being reclaimed.

Gospel-Centered Preaching, Indicatives, and Imperatives

Well, it�s interesting, specifically, Luke, in light of that 1 Corinthians 6, when you see sexual immorality dealt with, he does give imperatives, obviously. Flee immorality, right? If you act this way, this shows you�re unrighteous and you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You were this way, but you�ve been washed, sanctified, justified. But he also gives all these other indicatives about God raised the Lord and will raise us up by his power, verse 14. He talks about the body as a temple of the Holy Spirit, in verse 19.

You�re bought with a price, verse 20. A lot of indicatives found even in one of these heinous, gross, filthy sins that is sexual immorality, and therefore, I think that�s important. One of the things I�ve said regularly, Luke, is my favorite imperative in all the Bible, because I like imperatives.

God has given us his law as a reflection of his character. Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel. 2 Timothy 2 .8, my favorite imperative. Remember Jesus Christ.

I like it. What have I seen positively? Thanks for asking that question, Luke. As they like to say on radio. That�s a good question. They always say that about me. Why do they always say that? They always say that about me.

I will just bring up two, because I think there are many, and I agree with what you said as well, but a lot of people I know are rediscovering confessions and creeds, and they�re saying to themselves, instead of something that is over the Bible and controls the Bible, or is equal to the Bible, is dry and arid, it now has become something different when it comes to confessions and our perception of them in evangelicalism.

People read them, and they�ll read the Belgic Confession, the Last Judgment, and say, �I�m so encouraged. The intercession of Christ. That�s wonderful. It�s devotional. It�s worshipful. Therefore, I�ve been trying to get as many of my friends as possible to read creeds and confessions, because a lot of these problems we deal with in evangelicalism have already been dealt with, so why reinvent the solution when it�s already been recognized.

In Scripture, codified. And, dare I say, I think the thing that I mentioned and the thing that you mentioned are connected.

Oh, there are threads. What you just said implicitly, please say now explicitly.

Well, I just think that you have the confessions and the creeds and catechisms, and I can almost feel people rolling their eyes at that because they want to think, �Okay, here�s these people. They�re being influenced by Presbyterians.

Wouldn�t that be bad United Reformed. No, but all these things, and, �Oh, I don�t like people putting this over the Bible. And the idea being, it�s not that this goes over the Bible, and there are things that I think you and I would both disagree with in certain confessions that others would be unhappy about, like infant baptism and other things like that, but you do see that these confessions and catechisms often emphasize the Gospel, and they emphasize these things, and they�re handing down the truth of God�s Word over time, and so it�s almost this preservation of things that have already been discovered.

So one analogy I like to use is, imagine if you were going to go into some field of work. You�re a graduate from college, and then you know you�re going to sell light bulbs, and you know me, and let�s say you know five other light bulb sales reps, and then you decide, �You know what?

I don�t really want to talk to them about it. I�m going to figure it out myself. You still have the Scriptures. You�re still going to understand things, but you�re not going to be able to benefit from very intelligent and orthodox and faithful men who came to consensus on things that we see clearly in Scripture.

So I think that they�re connected because oftentimes the confession is clearly distinguished between law and Gospel. They talk about union with Christ and sanctification. They talk about things that we can neglect, unfortunately, when we come with our own personal confession and our own personal ideas about what the text should say.

I think if I was going to record a song for Biblicism, it would be Depeche Mode�s �Your Own Personal Jesus. That�s a good song. The Nina Hagen version is way better. Yeah, or Johnny Cash even. Yeah, that�s good too.

How does a pastor�s kid know about Nina Hagen? You know, not the typical pastor. That�s how it works. That�s right. I also am thankful for many people in evangelicalism these days thinking about biblical theology and tracing that thread of redemption in the Bible with the one main author that is the Holy Spirit.

Amen. I�m glad for that. All right. So that�s the positives here on No Compromise Radio. Mike and Luke Abendroth. Hafferhorff. I got something in the mail the other day, Mike Hafferhorff. I think I�ve heard it before too.

Anyway, and now to the negative. Maybe this, like you said, is easier. What are your concerns when you survey the landscape of evangelicalism?

Celebrity Culture and the Theology of the Cross

You know, there�s a few things, and I think it�s easy for everybody to get caught up with it, but I think one negative that you see is there does seem to be just this sort of business approach that�s still being perpetuated in the Christian life and the Christian faith and sort of a celebrity culture that goes on with that.

I think I heard some of this from somebody else, but you go to work and you work hard enough and you�ve got the parking spot and you�ve got the business cards with the gold name and all that stuff, and that�s not really how the world is supposed to be.

Or that�s how the world is supposed to be. That�s not how the church is supposed to be. The church is, you read through the gospels, the church is different. The kingdom of God operates on a different set of principles.

He�s the greatest, should be the least of these. Jesus would wash the disciples� feet. Everything is sort of turned on its head in the kingdom of God. And so, I think you just still see a lot of people that view the church, and myself included in my flesh, we can view the church as sort of your pathway to personal success and accolades, and that�s exactly what the Pharisees were doing.

So I don�t want to do that, and I see it and I understand it because it�s in my own heart and I�m sure you with the radio show and all these different things, it�s kind of the woman that�s calling for everybody is the woman of celebrity and all these accolades when really we just need to preach Christ.

We need to understand the theology of the cross and serve others and just be willing to be, even though he�s had a lot of other weird things, Count Zinzendorf, what is it? Preach Christ. Die. Die.

Be forgotten. I know. But it�s hard to be willing to do that. Luke, as you were talking about that, I just was resonating and feeling convicted too because you go to a conference, and I�m not talking about one that I go to to speak at or even those I guess, but I�m thinking about if I go to a big conference and you�re walking around and there�s hundreds of people, thousands of people, and friends and fellow graduates and other pastors around the world, etc., I think to myself, how do I self-identify?

I don�t mean as some kind of transgender, but what�s my self-identification? Is that union with Christ, or is it theologian, author, conference speaker, radio celebrity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It�s just awful. Then you meet another pastor, he�s up in Visalia, and he�s got 33 people there, and I�m better than he is because he�s got 33 people, and nobody�s ever heard of him, nor will they ever.

Well, and except for the people that he�s preaching the word to faithfully week by week, visiting them at the hospital, committed to the local church, it just adds a whole other level that I think Satan�s pretty smart in appealing to the flesh that we can turn ministry into something that�s so the opposite of its purpose.

I think it�s always good to read the Luther�s Theology of the Cross stuff and then just sit down and read the whole book of Luke, and you just see over and over, it�s totally the opposite of the world.

The way that the kingdom of God works is you want to be the best, you be the least.

I know, and I wish I had finally learned the lesson. I can�t say I have because I have much to learn, but you just look at whatever taste of celebrity I�ve had, let�s say that�s a G-list celebrity, it was way better in my life when nobody knew me.

Yeah, you get in more trouble now. I know, well, more trouble and just, you know, what�s easier, accepting hardships or accepting prosperity? Adversity seems to be easier to deal with because you have nowhere to go, you throw yourself on the Lord.

Prosperity, though, you have a lot of places to go and you can throw yourself on the adoring fans who have been blessed by what?

Something I came up with? No, the word of God. Well, I don�t know if this is, I think this is directly connected, but I don�t know how much to get into this, I don�t really have that much time, but it�s interesting to see, too, that how that sort of allows you to focus on gifts and the gifts maybe that you have rather than on the character that the Lord�s developing in you because you see all the time, I mean, we can have gifts and I can see myself, okay, I don�t think it�s pride to say, okay, the Lord�s given me a gift in these areas, whatever, this other person a gift in these other areas that I don�t have.

But we can think that that�s what makes us great or valuable. The fact that you can preach, oh, that means you�re really serving and following the Lord, where what the Lord wants is the same for a pastor and for anybody, that we would honor him in our lives, that we would be sanctified, that the will of God is our sanctification and that we would serve others and love other people and count their interests in more important than ourselves.

So, I think when you take stock of yourself, okay, like I just think to myself, okay, how did I do this week? If I go, oh, well, I was on NoCo, it�s pretty easy, it�s like, man, I�m doing good, I�m on the radio show, millions of people are listening.

I�m just kidding. But you know what? It�s easy. Billions, yeah. But if I say, okay, what was my attitude like when I�m in the house and I got to do something for my sisters? Then I go, ouch, I need a savior.

So I just think it kind of flips everything on its head too. There�s no accountability because I just travel around and preach and go to conferences and nobody really knows who I am, where when people know you, it makes you actually cry out, wretched man that I am.

I know.

Thanks for being on the show. Luke Abendroth with me, Mike Abendroth. You can write us at mike at nocompromiseradio .com.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God�s Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We�re right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.