August 12, 2025 Show with Chris Durkin on “The Resurrected Christ Reforming His Church”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 12th day of August, 2025, and I'm thrilled to have a returning guest today,

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Chris Durkin, who is pastor of Colts Neck Community Church in New Jersey and co -host with Pete Hegseth of the

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Fox Nation documentary, The Life of Jesus. Pastor Chris recently led a prayer service by the invitation of Pete Hegseth, who is now, as you know, our

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Secretary of Defense at the Pentagon, and we'll be hearing more about that as well, but today the main theme of our conversation with Pastor Chris Durkin is the resurrected

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Christ reforming his church, a study on the seven letters in Revelation 2 and 3.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Chris Durkin.

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Chris, it is always a joy to not only listen to your program, to be involved in it, and I can speak on behalf of so many people, whether in Pennsylvania or New Jersey, all over the world, brother.

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We appreciate your daily work and how you edify the church through this ministry and this podcast. So, overjoyed to be here.

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Well, thank you very much for that very encouraging word. And before we go into our theme today and also hear about your recent opportunity to lead a prayer meeting at the

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Pentagon, let's hear more about Colts Neck Community Church.

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So, Colts Neck Community Church is a Bible -believing Southern Baptist church plant. It's along the

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Jersey Shore. By God's grace, we preach Christ, and Christ is Lord.

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We teach the Bible. We are expositors, so every single Sunday we gather to sing, we gather to worship, we gather for fellowship, and we gather as we study the word, verse by verse.

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This summer, we're studying the Psalms, not just on Sunday mornings, but also on Wednesday evenings.

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We will be starting a new study in 1 Peter in September, and we just finished studying the topic of tonight's broadcast, which is the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation.

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So, if you are in the New Jersey area and you are looking for a solid Bible -believing church, then come gather with us.

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Praise God. Thank you for his grace. We all need his grace. You are welcome here, but you will hear the truth of God's word.

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You will hear the truth of his gospel, and we will, by God's grace, take your discipleship serious.

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We want to equip you for the work of ministry. Amen. And I know that you are having on November 30th, which is a

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Sunday, a guest preacher or speaker who I just had on the program yesterday,

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Dr. Jason Lyle, the Christian astrophysicist, author, and conference speaker, and also founder of the

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Biblical Science Institute, whose website is biblicalscienceinstitute .com,

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and he is speaking at Colts Neck Community Church on Sunday, November 30th, on the astrophysics of the star

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Bethlehem. Can you give us more details on that? Yeah, we really appreciate

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Dr. Lyle's ministry. We really appreciate his solid theology that, of course, informs his scientific research, as it should be.

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So, we're overjoyed to have Dr. Lyle come. He's going to be preaching. We have three services on Sunday morning.

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Dr. Lyle will be preaching at all three on Sunday morning, and then on Sunday evening we're going to have dinner, food fellowship, and he's going to be teaching on the astrophysics of the star

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Bethlehem, and then we'll do a Q &A. And then that following day, he's also going to do a special event for the homeschool families out there, and it's going to include curriculum, and we want to pour into homeschoolers as they continue to raise up their children in the knowledge and the fear of the

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Lord. So, on Monday, it's a special additional day where Dr. Lyle is going to pour into our homeschool families.

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It's open to everyone, but that's the focus on that Monday, December 1st. Well, I know from first -hand experience that you are going to have a riveted audience.

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Dr. Lyle just recently spoke at my most recent

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors luncheon, and every seat in the audience was riveted to what he was saying, and I had a host of men afterwards approach me to thank me for inviting them, because they were so blessed, and even more emails with those kinds of comments came pouring in later, and I look forward to having him back.

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So, you are definitely in good hands with Dr. Lyle, that's for certain.

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Yes, amen. Thank you, Chris. And if anybody wants more details on Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey, go to coltsneckchurch .com,

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coltsneckchurch .com, and God willing, later on in the program, we will repeat that for you.

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Now, also, before we go into our main theme about the seven letters to the churches in Revelation 2 and 3, please let us know about this exciting opportunity that you had.

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Pete Hegseth, our Secretary of Defense, was formerly a member of Colts Neck Community Church, and he had invited you not so long ago to lead a prayer service at the

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Pentagon. Tell us about that. Yes. So, we were truly, truly blessed to know

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Pete and his wife, Jenny, while they were living in New Jersey, and Pete and I became quickly friends.

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And I just want to say this, Chris, before he was Secretary of Defense, and even more than a commentator on Fox News, a very, very accomplished author, by the way, he is a genuine brother in the

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Lord, regenerate, born again, loves the Lord, and it's just a joy for me to tell people that.

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Obviously, so many people are familiar with his story, but I can tell you at Colts Neck Community Church, he is on that straight and narrow path, and he is following the

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Lord, and he wants to not just serve this country and serve our military, which obviously has such high honor and is such a good unto itself, but he truly does believe in Christ as his

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Savior, and he wants to see the word of God spread and the kingship of our

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Lord spread to every single part of society. So, Pete is a wonderful friend, and he invited me to come down to the

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Capitol and lead a prayer service at the Pentagon, and I was given freedom to preach, freedom to proclaim the name of Christ.

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And it's a wonderful thing not only to have that opportunity to teach and to preach and to exalt the name of Jesus, but Pete starts those services with prayer, and he calls upon King Jesus for the

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Lord leading and guiding for not just the military, but for this country. So, it was an interesting thing,

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Chris. I mean, it was an auditorium in the Pentagon. I don't know if you've ever been there. It's a massive building, one of the biggest buildings in the world, apparently, biggest office buildings in the world.

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And when we started, when we began with that call to worship, it felt like any auditorium at any church anywhere.

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In front of me were not only sailors and soldiers, but distinguished men of high rank and title in our

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U .S. military, and because the Lord has opened up this door for Pete, it felt like a church service right there in the

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Pentagon, and it was such an honor to be a part of. And please, for your listeners, please continue to pray for Pete, our

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Secretary of Defense, Jenny, and all their children, because the Lord is really using him in wonderful and mighty ways.

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Amen. And by the way, anybody who wants to hear Pete's two different interviews on Iron Radio, the first one was on September 26th in 2022, where he discussed battle for the

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American mind uprooting a century of miseducation. And also, the second one was on June 7th of last year, 2024.

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Pete discussed his more recent book, The War on Warriors. You can hear both of those interviews by going to irontrepanzionradio .com

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and type in Hegseth in the search engine, H -E -G -S -E -T -H, and both of those interviews will come up.

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Hope you enjoy those interviews. Well, as we had already announced, you have a profound theme today that we are discussing,

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The Resurrected Christ, Reforming His Church, a study on the seven letters in Revelation 2 and 3.

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And if you could give us the background of those seven letters, an overall summary, why they were written, to whom they were written.

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And sometimes, I think, well -intentioned brothers in Christ go overboard in making things that were written to specific people in the

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Scriptures. They make the mistake of always making these things exactly directed toward those of us who are living now, and sometimes that can be an overblown process.

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But sometimes it's just the fact that eternal truths have their place in the minds and hearts and lives of everybody, no matter what generation they live in.

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But if you could, tell us about that. Yeah, so I felt led, Chris, thank you.

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I felt led to return the church, our church, Goldstack Community Church, back to these seven letters.

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And what makes these seven letters significant for many reasons is, obviously, we have the epistles of the apostles.

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We have the apostles who are teaching, who are guiding, and when needed, rebuking the church.

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And what's interesting about the seven letters of the seven churches is that it is Christ himself, the risen reigning

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Lord who is reforming his church. And yes, you could even see it before we get into Revelation chapter two, that this is by human authorship.

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It's the apostle John writing from the prison island of Patmos. And you could see even in Revelation chapter one, verse four,

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John addresses the recipients of the book of Revelation, as we call it, this way.

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In verse four of Revelation one, it says, John, to the seven churches that are in Asia, grace and peace to you from him who was, who is, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne.

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So now, is there a certain sense that there are parts, application in these seven churches that are directly connected to his return?

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Yes, absolutely, I believe that's the case. But even as John is writing to these seven literal churches along a very literal trade route in ancient

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Asia minor, which we now call Turkey, I believe that Jesus speaking to not just seven historical churches, but at the same time, he's speaking to seven different reactions to the gospel, seven different ways that churches respond to his lordship.

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So when we come to the seven letters of the seven churches, however we might take little nuances in interpretation here or there,

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I think it's very, very important that we do not shy away from turning to the very words of our good shepherd and our chief shepherd,

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Jesus Christ, as he is reforming not just the churches of Asia minor, but as this is

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God's word for all of God's people and all of God's places. This is, in fact,

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Christ reforming his bride, reforming his body, reforming the church. So I really got convicted,

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Chris, that we should know these churches and know these letters. So as you know, the resurrected Christ himself, he's writing to these churches, and I believe not just writing to these churches, he's building up some of these flocks in their strengths.

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He's directing these flocks when they're wandering. Yes, almost every single time he's correcting and disciplining these flocks, these churches when they are deceived, when they rebel.

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And here's what I think is so significant as far as this historical moment,

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Chris, in America right now. The fifth part of this is that Jesus repeatedly says to these churches, if you do not repent, he will take away his lampstand from this flock.

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Chris, the last time I was on this broadcast, we did a study on Rome, on Roman Catholicism, and all the abhorrent ways that they replace the truth of Scripture with human tradition.

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And of course, whenever we do that, it doesn't lead to clarity, it leads to confusion, it doesn't lead to worshiping in spirit and truth, it leads to idolatry.

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But what I'd like to focus on today is also the role that mainline

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Protestantism has played in the downfall of not just our society, but even the state that I serve in and the state that I live in.

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And to apply, to overlay these seven letters to specifically what's going on in our country, and especially with all of these

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Protestant liberal churches that are full -on heretical, Chris. I mean, full -on rejecting not just the authority and sufficiency of God's Word, but yes, rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ themselves.

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So the introduction to the seven churches of Revelation, you have seven churches. You have the church of Ephesus, which was, as you remember, the church that abandoned its first love.

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You have the church of Smyrna, it was the persecuted church. You have the church of Pergamum, very interesting, that was the church where Satan's throne,

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Jesus said, literally dwells. And then you have Thyatira, the church that tolerated Jezebel, and we can see a lot of that today.

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You have the church of Sardis, the dead church. Are there dead churches today?

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My goodness, the American landscape is replete, tragically, with churches that have buildings that the

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Holy Spirit left them a long time ago. You, of course, have the faithful church in Philadelphia, and then lastly, the lukewarm church in Laodicea.

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So what's very, very interesting and very important is what Jesus says to this first church in Ephesus, when he says clearly, and I think this is important for not just our listeners and not just for our country, but for all of pastors, is to remember this in Revelation 2, verse 5, when

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Jesus says, Remember, therefore, where you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first.

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If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place unless you repent.

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Chris, there is no fear of God in so many of our churches today. So Jesus, who is the light of the world,

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Jesus, who is, in fact, our King, our Lord, he is our master.

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He says clearly and emphatically that if these churches then and our churches today do not repent, he himself will take away the lampstand, as if to say we will have church buildings everywhere,

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Chris. But the Lord has removed his lights. The Lord has removed his power.

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And that's why these churches are dying. They are emptying out and dying in large number.

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What we're seeing with the fall of mainline Protestantism, as it's called, is quite a remarkable historical moment.

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And the big idea that I gave to our church was it's not just cultural, it's

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Jesus himself closing those churches down. And we need to remember that as well.

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Amen. Well, we have to go to our first commercial break. And if you have a question for Pastor Chris Durkin, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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We understand all of those things would compel you to remain anonymous. But if it's a general question, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

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p .m., I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the

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For more details on the Free Pastors Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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if you are purchasing jewelry and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Pastor Chris Durkin of Colts Neck Community Church in New Jersey, and we are discussing the risen

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Christ, the resurrected Christ, reforming his church. And this is a focus on the seven letters to the church in Asia that are described in Revelation 2 and 3.

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And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

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I'm going to take a question right away, although I was going to wait till later. I think this is a good question to ask at the very beginning.

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Deshawn in Brooklyn Park, Maryland asks, can I ask you, did you use any commentaries that you can recommend or the writings of some great

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Christian hero of yours to help guide you through understanding the seven letters? Yes, that's a great question.

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I tried to as much as I can, and I don't know if I have access to those resources in this moment.

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I try as much as I can, Chris, and there's plenty of solid Reformed writing on and Baptistic writing on Revelation.

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So I encourage people to always turn to John MacArthur. He's going to be a good pastor theologian to apply these things.

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I also turned to Thomas Schreiner. He's got a great commentary on the seven letters to the seven churches inside of his own writing on the commentary on the book of Revelation.

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There were several different commentators that I leaned on heavily, and I try to do that if possible.

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Sometimes when you are studying the Old Testament books, there's not as much of a selection, but I can absolutely send to you,

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Chris, that list of books that I use because there is, as the book of Proverbs says, wisdom in a multitude of counselors, and this study, the seven letters of the seven churches, of course the book of Revelation as a

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So, yes, I can get you that list of commentators. I could post it on your social media, but I would turn to John MacArthur's work on this subject and Thomas Schreiner's as well.

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Great. Well, pick up where you left off on how each of these churches are not isolated to their day and age and time where the rest of the body of Christ, including today, can ignore them and have no concerns that these letters are addressing them in any way.

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If you could correct that flaw or error on the part of many and tell us how these specific churches apply.

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Well, yes, any word in God's Word. Of course, it's all breathed out by God.

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So we got to be cautious that we don't fall into the trap of thinking somehow, some way that the quote -unquote red letters are more inspired than the black letters, and that's not biblical.

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In fact, no one had a higher view of Scripture in Scripture than the one all Scripture points to,

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Jesus Christ himself. Yet the church would be so blessed. I think it's essential right now for us to return not only back to Christ as Lord, but I think it's so helpful to return back to Christ reforming the church.

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So let's use a contemporary cultural analogy, if we could, Chris. I think transgenderism was such a wake -up call.

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How did we get to this point at our society where people who are biologically born a woman could just because of social confusion—obviously you could read a lot of Romans 1 into it as well—somehow think that they are a woman body?

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It was a huge wake -up call. By the way, another one is happening in New York City right now. The financial capital of the world is soon going to have a communist

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Muslim mayor. That's going to happen. Are you really that confident he's going to be elected?

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Oh yeah. Andrew Cuomo's not stopping him. Unless there is such a financial coup by billionaires pulling strings.

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But I do think he's going to get elected. I'm watching the polls because obviously in New Jersey, New York casts a very big shadow.

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But just for even the fact that it's going to be close—and I do think he's going to win—even the fact that the

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Democratic Party is going to get around and support a Muslim communist to be the mayor of one of the biggest cities and arguably the financial capital of the world is quite a cultural moment.

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So the world is going to think about economics, Chris, right? The world's going to think about culture. But as Christians, we should think deeper that culture is downstream of worship.

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Ultimately, everything that we see around us is a response to the truth of God's word, but also those being made in God's image, not worshiping, as Romans 1 says, so well, the

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Creator, but the creation. So what's happening? And that's why I think if you look at New York City as well as New Jersey, we have a very, very strong Catholic influence.

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So let's think about this as it pertains to worship, not just historically in our country over the last 100 years, which

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I'd like to get into in light of the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation, but specifically what's happening now.

37:01

Not only the cratering of the mainline Protestant denomination and how I personally believe it's the

37:07

Lord closing those churches, but also how do we get to the point where, believe it or not,

37:13

Chris, believe it or not, at the founding of our nation—you ready for this? I just read this—at the founding of our nation, guess what colony was the most churched?

37:24

Guess what colony out of the 13 colonies had the most people gathering on the

37:29

Lord's Day for worship? Can you guess? I can't right now, no. It's not a southern state.

37:35

Believe it or not, it's my state. New Jersey has a high number of people gathering for worship at the time of this country's founding.

37:47

Quite a remarkable transition and shift. So you can read about this. I'm getting some of these facts and figures from Ryan Berg's book,

37:55

The American Religious Landscape, and he makes this argument. Believe it or not, not many people know this,

38:01

Chris, but the time where America was the most churched was not actually at the founding of the country.

38:06

Now, I think because of our Puritan legacy, I think the theology was the best at the beginning of this country when we had wonderful faithful pastors like Jonathan Edwards and other wonderful Puritan pastors as well.

38:19

But the time when people were going to church the most, Chris, I was shocked to read, was actually in the 1920s.

38:26

Can you believe, I know, can you believe that this society went from 80 percent, 80 percent—you could look it up—80 percent of our culture between 1910 and 1920 were attending some kind of Christian church.

38:45

There was a little Catholicism that was coming in through immigration, but most of the country was churched.

38:51

Now, how solid the churches were, how faithful the churches were, in the last hundred years,

38:57

Chris, in the last hundred years, from the 1920s to the 2020s, we have seen a shocking historical downfall, not just of morals and not just of ethics and not just of civic sanity, but of the place of the church.

39:13

So what happened? And that's why I think the seven letters in the book of Revelation can be such a helpful guide.

39:19

If we truly do believe that this isn't just historical, but similar to when

39:24

Paul writes to the church in Philippi, we don't believe that that was just isolated to the church in Philippi.

39:30

Yes, it's Paul's pen, but it's God's Word. So if Christ is reforming the church, I think that every single church has a proclivity to fall into one of these seven pitfalls and traps.

39:44

And we can learn a lot, should the Lord tarry, about how we, by God's grace, get back to what the

39:51

Bible has always said, continue to teach the Word, proclaim Christ as Lord, but go to our great physician as he's diagnosing the sickness of even the early church and these specific seven churches.

40:04

Okay, we have another question from Jerry in San Antonio, Texas.

40:13

And Jerry says, what does it actually mean that Christ removed a lampstand from a church?

40:25

Yes, that's a great question. And obviously, when you turn to the book of Revelation, you're going to see certain themes and certain numbers that have a lot of significance.

40:35

The number seven has a lot of significance, and of course, this issue of lampstands.

40:42

So the way that most scholars understand this is that Christ comes, and he is walking amongst the seven angels and the seven lampstands, and he is going to remove this lampstand, for example, from the church in Ephesus after even though all of their faithful labor.

41:03

Jesus said to the church in Ephesus, and we can get into this, Chris, the church in Ephesus had one of the strongest foundations of any church in the

41:12

New Testament, truly a remarkable foundation. The church in Ephesus, for example, was, as you can read in the book of Acts, not only preached by the apostle

41:25

Paul, planted by Aquila and Priscilla. It had Apollos, who often visited and taught there.

41:32

It had Timothy as its pastor, the apostle John as its pastor, and now

41:37

Jesus Christ himself as the first of the seven letters to the seven churches.

41:43

Jesus is now speaking to the church in Ephesus. So a remarkable foundation.

41:48

And once again, if you want to make any kind of application to the church in our cities and in this country, quite a remarkable foundation,

41:56

Chris. Historically, I don't know how you deny that. But what we see in Ephesus is, as many people know, they abandoned their first love.

42:04

They had all of these wonderful, wonderful aspects of faithfulness and strength.

42:11

Jesus said of this church that they were faithful, that they worked hard, that they hated the works of the

42:19

Nicolaitans. And by the way, it's helpful for us to be able to say that, right,

42:24

Chris? It's helpful for us to say that God hates sin, and so does Jesus. Jesus commends the church in Ephesus for hating the sins of the

42:34

Nicolaitans. And I think pastors need to return back to that. If our chief shepherd, if our good shepherd would commend a church for saying, yes, you hate this sin, and so do

42:45

I, then we have to become stronger in our language when we're preaching the law of God and the holiness of God.

42:52

So ultimately, to answer the question, I believe taking away the lampstand is not necessarily if there's genuine regenerate

42:59

Christians there, because Jesus would often say, okay, he who has an ear, let him hear.

43:05

Most of these churches, if not all seven churches, they end with an admonishment for the church to repent so that they could continue the work of the ministry.

43:16

I don't think, Chris, that this is necessarily an issue that anyone anywhere can lose their salvation. I believe that if you believe in Jesus, you belong to Jesus, that the

43:25

Holy Spirit is a guarantee, a deposit. It is, in fact, the Spirit of Christ, and Christ doesn't jump out of your heart whether you're having a good or bad day.

43:35

I believe what Jesus is saying is he removes his light. He removes his power. He removes what makes a church a church, and that is the work of the

43:44

Holy Spirit. So that's how I understand it, and that's why I think it's shocking right now that you see so many churches that are dead, perhaps not fully dead, closed their doors yet, but they are spiritually dead, and it's so important for Bible -believing

44:01

Christians to continue to repent, but also continue to return back to their first love, who is

44:07

Jesus. So I think it's the light of the gospel, and I think it's the power of the gospel. Yeah, and if you could tell us—you said earlier that you believe that any of the peculiarities that existed in the churches to whom the letters were written, they can typically be identified in churches today, whether you are talking about congregations or larger groups like denominations, and that churches very often have a tendency to fall into one category or another.

44:49

Can you give us some of these parallels that are in your mind? And of course,

44:54

I'm not talking about naming specific churches, although you can do what you want, but I mean, you know, giving us a general similarity that they would have.

45:07

Yes, so I have no problem talking about movements. I have no problem talking about denominations.

45:13

I think what is happening right now, for example, with the United Methodist Church, is quite possibly one of the biggest church splits that we have ever witnessed, and it's quite a remarkable thing.

45:26

I know probably many of your listeners, including our church and our congregants, were not very tuned into what's going on with the

45:34

United Methodist Church, but as a really remarkable historical moment, as far as the size and scope of an association, a denomination, how it has split, completely divided in the last several years, is quite a rare historical moment.

45:51

I mean, God is really doing something, Chris. Whether it be in the United Methodist Church, or whether it be in the

45:58

Presbyterian Church of the USA, or whether it be in Lutheran churches, it's really remarkable.

46:05

And of course, all of this comes around the issue of the sexual revolution and what these churches are saying about specifically homosexual sin and homosexual marriage.

46:17

So I think part of the foundation that gets laid here is, in fact, an on -ramp to all of this, is the spirit of feminism that's in the church.

46:27

So I know that's a lot of what people are talking about even right now. Online, you can read about it. On podcasts, you can hear about it.

46:34

On even major mainstream interviews, it's getting talked about. So what does it mean for us to go back to not just the teachings of the

46:42

Apostle Paul on this area, which we should, not just to First Timothy and First Corinthians, but to go back to the

46:48

Church of Thyatira, where Jesus is rebuking that church because they are, quote -unquote, tolerating

46:55

Jezebel. And this isn't the literal Jezebel of the

47:00

Old Testament, but this is someone who, with the same blasphemous presence amongst

47:07

God's people, is acting in the same way Jezebel acted. And this church in Thyatira, for example, is tolerating this person.

47:17

Not just this person, but the ideology behind the idolatry, tolerating their teaching.

47:24

So I think it's very, very important. Obviously, this is the sufficiency and perspicuity of God's Word.

47:29

It is clear, and it is sufficient. If we would return back to the church in Thyatira, we would see that even from the beginning, this kind of godless feminism was creeping into the church, and we could see what

47:45

Jesus himself specifically said to it. R. Yes, the very denomination that you're talking about, the

47:54

United Methodist Church. I've had interviews with at least one leading figure in the breakaway movement, the

48:05

Global Methodist Church, and I applauded them for their willingness to leave a very financially prosperous denomination over truths that they believed, and they were accurate in their belief that the

48:28

United Methodist Church had abandoned biblical beliefs in so many areas that they had to separate permanently.

48:37

But at the same time, I warned this brother who was on the show that their retention of the ordination of women,

48:48

I believe, is going to lead them right back to where they started, and one day the

48:55

Global Methodists will be endorsing the very things they left the United Methodists for. It's very important that hermeneutics is correct, because the only way that I have heard defending the ordination of women is by using cultural reasons, and that's exactly what the homosexual advocates do.

49:28

They will say there were no loving, monogamous homosexual relationships in Paul's day.

49:36

Now, how they could know that, I have no idea. Of course, nobody can have true love for anybody if they're doing it in such a fashion that is satanic, but that's just what

49:51

I had to say about that group. But I think we have a question that is very wise from Neville in New Canaan, Connecticut.

50:06

Neville says, must we not be extremely careful to only point to those more extravagant examples of apostasy in churches, where even very conservative churches can be right on the money when it comes to every jot and tittle of doctrine, but they are devoid of love and other things that true

50:29

Christians and churches must possess? And that brother would be correct.

50:35

He would absolutely be correct, and that's why as we study the seven letters, the seven churches in Revelation, yes, how tragic it would be, because Jesus does repeat certain things seven times, and one of the things he repeats is that he who has an ear hear.

50:53

How tragic it would be if, as we are applying these churches to other movements today, that we don't have ears,

51:04

Chris, to hear how it applies to our church and to our souls and to our families.

51:09

So absolutely, and that's why I think you get such a really, really broad cross section here in the seven letters to the seven churches.

51:18

I mean, there's some churches that are close to full -on apostasy there, but there's faithful churches.

51:26

The church in Smyrna, by the way, a persecuted church, and yet even then

51:32

Jesus isn't admonishing them, he's exhorting them. And what's so interesting about the church in Smyrna was that that was the capital exporter of myrrh.

51:43

So even as myrrh was exported from Smyrna, and that's literally where we got the name

51:51

Smyrna from, they got the name Smyrna from, it's a good reminder for us that not only will the

51:57

Lord rebuke us if we don't repent of sin, but even when we're persecuted and crushed, so that beautiful fragrant of myrrh, its scent and its medical properties weren't released until it was crushed.

52:12

So there's so much to be learned from the seven letters to the seven churches, whether you have abandoned your first love, like that reader, that listener just said, and your doctrine might be exceptional, and yet you have no love for Christ in your heart and no love for your brother and sister in your own church, or it could be other examples in the seven letters to the seven churches.

52:36

That's why I think these seven churches are such a helpful guide for our churches today, and you're absolutely right.

52:46

We should always ask the question, does this speak not just to me personally, but does this speak to us corporately as a community, as a church family?

52:56

And if it does, then we should repent early, Chris, and repent often. We should not cast stones on those who are, yes, blatantly and unrepentantly defying

53:08

God's will and God's law, but we should fall down on our face and say, have mercy on us, Jesus, because we are sinners as well.

53:15

Amen. We have to go to our midway break right now, and once again, if you have your own question, please submit it to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

53:23

Give us your first name at least, city and state country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ -honoring, doctrinally sound, theologically solid church like Colts Neck Community Church in New Jersey, well, no matter where you live on the planet

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and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Chris Durkin, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:09:44

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Pastor Chris, how are the pastors listening and the average congregant listening to use these letters to equip them from not being under the same kind of chastisement from Christ where a lampstand is removed from them?

01:10:17

Yes, well, I mean, in what is called Jesus' high priestly prayer of John 17, as he was not just praying for the disciples that were in that upper room with him, but he was praying for the disciples that would come from the church, from the spirits.

01:10:35

He was praying that the Lord would sanctify them. And as you know, Chris, I'm sure your listeners know, he said that we need to be sanctified in the truth and his word,

01:10:47

God's word, is the truth. So repeatedly, we must come back to Holy Scripture.

01:10:55

Now, with that said, it's very, very helpful for us to study the word and also to continue to hear other pastors, other brothers, to not only study it, but to also, by God's grace, iron sharpens iron, to allow others to help us see our blind spots, to allow others to help us see perhaps in general ways that we are blind to our sin.

01:11:27

The way that Jesus described, of course, in the Sermon on the Mount is we are looking at the sawdust in other people's eyes while we have this big, ugly, protruding, obvious sin that is protruding from our eyes.

01:11:41

So very, very helpful, very, very essential to study the seven letters to the seven churches and also to say, okay, is this us?

01:11:53

Is this us? So for example, Jesus often, he would exhort and then he would rebuke.

01:12:01

I think most of the listeners to iron sharpens iron wouldn't say that they fall into the trap of Sardis.

01:12:10

And Sardis wasn't a sleep church. Sardis was in fact a dead church.

01:12:15

But we have to ask the question, when we study any of these seven churches, is this in fact us?

01:12:23

So what do we see in the church of Sardis? Well, if your listeners have their Bible open, Jesus says this in Revelation chapter 3, 1 and 2, and to the angel of the church in Sardis write, the words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars,

01:12:39

I know your works. Here's the convicting part, Chris. This is why we need the light of holy scripture.

01:12:47

Jesus says you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

01:12:56

Wake up, wake up, Jesus says, and strengthen what remains and is about to die.

01:13:06

For I have not found your works complete in the sight of my

01:13:11

God. Any gospel believing, gospel proclaiming, gospel loving Christian will know that we are not saved by our good works, but by the finished final work of Christ Jesus, Christ crucified,

01:13:24

Christ resurrected, the saving sanctifying work of the gospel and the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

01:13:30

And yet, as is often the case throughout the entire Bible, the works don't save, yet the works are, in fact, insight into our faith and devotion.

01:13:42

This is why Paul would write to the church in Philippi, and he would not say work for your salvation, but he would say work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

01:13:51

This is, in my mind, one of those fear and trembling verses, very similar to Matthew 7.

01:13:57

I was just looking it up. Yes, right? Very, very convicting, and we got to be cautious.

01:14:04

We really do. I believe that you can have absolute confidence and assurance that you are, in fact, born again, regenerate, that you can know that you belong to Christ and you will be with Christ forever.

01:14:18

And at the same time, that assurance and that confidence shouldn't lead to hubris. It shouldn't lead to some kind of version of Christianity where we don't repent when we hear the

01:14:31

Word of God. So, if you got it there, Chris, are you turning to it? Matthew chapter 7? Yes, Matthew chapter 7, starting at verse 21.

01:14:41

Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my

01:14:47

Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name?

01:14:55

And in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles. And then

01:15:01

I will declare to them, I never knew you. Leave me, you who practice lawlessness.

01:15:09

And that is, I think, the most chilling series of sentences in the entire

01:15:16

God -breathed Scripture. And what I have found interesting, I don't know if you would disagree with me or not,

01:15:23

I know of some of our brethren who would be like us, cessationists, who say, oh, these were false miracle workers.

01:15:36

Well, Jesus doesn't say that they didn't do these things. He doesn't say, no, you didn't.

01:15:43

You didn't do any of that. But I'm not saying with certainty they did, but to me, there's a strong indication that even if you are doing these things, or at least it is appearing that you are doing these things, even in your own mind and heart, that is not a guarantee that you are faithful to Christ, and you could have the same wake -up call or the same startling news on the day of judgment that you are going to be eternally damned.

01:16:21

Right. And that's what's so remarkable about the Bible. Here it is, the Sermon on the Mountains, the beginning of Jesus' public ministry.

01:16:29

The king is announcing the kingdom has come, and this is what the kingdom looks like. And then in the last book of the

01:16:36

New Testament, obviously, the Sermon on the Mountain, the first book of the New Testament, in the book of Revelation, Jesus is saying something very similar, not just individual souls, but souls that are gathered in a church in Sardis, that they seem to be alive, but are actually dead.

01:16:53

Can you imagine the Lord writing a letter to your church, Chris, to my church, with those specific words to our specific congregations?

01:17:01

My goodness, I don't know how we wouldn't fall on our face and weep. In Matthew chapter 7, it is startling, and it is very, very clarifying.

01:17:12

The way that I've always understood it is that if people were going to look at someone who could, as Jesus said here in Matthew 7, prophesy—this is not just a foretelling,

01:17:24

I think he's speaking to those who claim to foretell, that have insight into the future—people that claim to not only prophesy, but seem to have the ability to cast out demons and do many works in their name—if you were to look at those who do these things, you would think that person's really close to God.

01:17:44

You would think that person is sent by God. You would think that that's the most dramatic example of godliness on earth.

01:17:53

And yet Jesus says, depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. I never knew you. So now, to the

01:17:59

Christians in Sardis, I believe that there is a remnant there, and that's why he's writing to those genuine believers.

01:18:07

And I believe that the remnant, the truly regenerate Christians in the church in Sardis and our churches today, will hear the word.

01:18:15

Can our consciences become seared? Yes, but I truly believe that if we belong to Christ, he is faithful to not only save us, but to sanctify us, even if he has to discipline us.

01:18:28

But it's a good reminder for us, Chris, that the church of Sardis, they seemed like they were alive, but Jesus said, not only have you fallen asleep, you are in fact dead.

01:18:38

Your works are not complete, so you must repent. We should not just think of other churches when we think of that.

01:18:44

We should think of our own. Amen. And by the way, I want to make it clear to our listeners, I am a cessationist, and I today, when people are claiming to be able to do these things, that they are charlatans.

01:19:00

But the only reason that I am curious about these who will be standing before the

01:19:08

Lord, whether or not they were performing these miracles, if they were not performing miracles,

01:19:16

I think that they really believed they were, because I find it hard to believe that on judgment, somebody is thinking they're going to pull the wool over Jesus' eyes.

01:19:30

You know what I'm saying? When they know that they are standing before the God -man. But of course, the

01:19:39

Scriptures do not really give us that much information about that. But do you have any thoughts on that?

01:19:47

Yeah, and I think once again, so this is the culmination. Before Jesus talks about application with, you know, if we build our houses, in other words, our lives upon sand, when the storms come, everything is destroyed, but if we build our lives, our souls, upon His truth, then it will withstand.

01:20:11

So it's not by accident, Chris, that I think before Jesus applies His Sermon on the

01:20:17

Mount with saying, okay, what foundation are you building your lives on? He's warning about a false version of Christianity.

01:20:26

He's warning about those who claim perhaps they are charlatans. I am always fascinated by those priests of Pharaoh that were able to somehow, some way, conjure up something, whether they were full -on charlatans or they were tapping into some kind of demonic power.

01:20:44

But the big idea is that Jesus loves us enough to warn us, not just if we might be deceived when in actuality we're not truly born again, but also to say what matters the most is that we know

01:20:58

Him. And if we know Him, we won't continue in these works of lawlessness.

01:21:05

And I do think, I do think that there are plenty of influential people that claim to do these works, prophesy these things, that tragically, and may they repent,

01:21:16

Chris, may they return back to Christ, they will hear those words, I never knew you, and we would probably be shocked.

01:21:23

We would probably be shocked. But that's why that's in there, to warn us of a false confidence that's not rooted in knowing

01:21:31

Him, is why J .I. Packer's words in Knowing God, his teaching of Scripture in that book is so helpful.

01:21:39

But then also to say if we know Him, then we won't continue in works of lawlessness. I do think that these people claiming to do miracles were continuing unrepentantly in works of lawlessness.

01:21:49

So Jesus said it. He said it. He said you'll know them by their fruit. And he had the harshest words for religious hypocrites over and over again.

01:21:58

And I believe you would agree with me that the

01:22:04

Arminians, I'm talking about full -blown five -point Arminians, and those who actually agree with the five points of Arminianism but don't give

01:22:15

Arminians the identity for their beliefs, the source of their beliefs, but they would say this is proof that Christians can lose their salvation.

01:22:31

But they are overlooking a key word in there. Jesus says,

01:22:37

I never knew you. He didn't say, I once knew you, I loved you, but you fell away.

01:22:45

He didn't say that. Right. Exactly right. Yes. And I think he's…

01:22:50

Go ahead. I'll go ahead. You need a break? I think you see this in Sardis really quick. Once again, in verse four,

01:22:57

Jesus says, Yet you still have a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.

01:23:07

So even as the church might be dead, Chris, there are always a remnant, and the remnant must not go along with the unrepentant dead asleep church.

01:23:18

Jesus does say that there are those that he knows by name that he saved, and he's promising you will walk in white.

01:23:26

But so that's what's so interesting about the seven letters, the seven churches, that even if the church is wayward, he has saints, he has sons and daughters in these church communities.

01:23:38

And it'll be truly those that he not only perseveres, but it'll be truly those that I believe will actually genuinely hear his words and repent.

01:23:47

Okay, by the way, Cindy in Finley, Ohio, you sent me a text,

01:23:54

John 6, 29. Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.

01:24:04

If you could give us a little bit more details on why you sent that text in relationship to this discussion, just be a little bit lengthier in your connection to that text, to the conversation.

01:24:21

So that'd be great. We have another listener in Oregon.

01:24:30

We have Treasure, what a great name, in Beaverton, Oregon, and Treasure says,

01:24:39

Isn't this just another example of why it is important for pastors to preach the gospel in their congregations, not assuming everyone sitting there is already regenerate, including their fellow elders, deacons, and people with great reputations?

01:25:00

That is a great word of wisdom. You know, I think we're seeing a wonderful shift now, Chris. I think the

01:25:06

Seeker Sensitive Movement has led a lot of churches, and yes, tragically, denominations astray.

01:25:12

So a lot of people are kind of waking up to the fruit of the Seeker Sensitive Movement, that in the name of evangelism, in the name of attracting sinners to hear the gospel, that they watered down the truth, that they stopped feeding the sheep, and they were entertaining goats.

01:25:28

I really do think the Spirit of God is doing something in the hearts of his people where they're desiring truth now more than ever.

01:25:34

So yes, we should rejoice in that. I'm seeing in my church too, praise

01:25:39

God, that people are hungry for the truth and they don't want to be entertained. But at the same time, like your listener from Oregon, and God bless you for being a light in Oregon, you're absolutely right.

01:25:50

Even as our call as pastors, as teachers, as elders, is to equip the body on the

01:25:57

Lord's Day, it is good. It is absolutely good that primarily

01:26:03

Sunday worship is about the glory of God. It's not even about us. But pastors have a call in Ephesians 4 to equip the body for the works of ministry.

01:26:12

So we worship for the glory of God, we live for the glory of God, we sing for the glory of God, and then in teaching of the gospel, in teaching of the holy scriptures, we want to equip the body.

01:26:24

But part of that equipping work in Ephesians 4, Chris, is like that listener just said, we have to make sure they understand

01:26:33

Ephesians 2. And don't assume that they do. And don't assume that they do.

01:26:38

I believe that salvation belongs to the Lord. So you could preach the gospel repeatedly and tragically many people, there will be full on wolves that are dressed like sheep.

01:26:49

Tragically, there will be many people that are in churches and never truly believe. But we should continue to preach

01:26:55

Ephesians 2, that without Christ we're dead in our sin, even as we want to equip them, like it says in Ephesians 4.

01:27:04

You know, I'm assuming you would agree with me that one of the most dangerous things about wrongly assuming that you are living according to the will of God is when people are lukewarm.

01:27:27

Because very often Christians, when they are in that state of mind about indifference, they are not recognizing how evil and wicked that is.

01:27:42

They, again, going back to something that we were saying earlier, people seem to have comfort in thinking, as long as I am not involved in some openly scandalous and shocking sin,

01:28:01

I'm not committing adultery, I'm not stealing, I'm not murdering anybody, and we could go on and on and on about the more grotesque sins that even very often the world, who is unregenerate, will share a revulsion over certain things that many

01:28:30

Christians are not participating in. But at the same time, being indifferent can be a very dangerous sign of you're not having life within you, am

01:28:40

I correct? Yes, and that is the last letter of the seven letters to seven churches.

01:28:46

It's famously known, the Church of Laodicea, as the Bible says, it's famously known as the lukewarm church.

01:28:53

So what's interesting here is I do think this applies individually, Chris, here in Revelation 3 verse 20.

01:29:00

I do think that God sovereignly in His grace does this to every true, born -again, regenerate heart.

01:29:06

But we should also think about this as far as a church. Let me read it for your listeners. It's Revelation 3 verse 20.

01:29:12

I'm reading from the ESV. Jesus says, Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,

01:29:19

I will come in to eat with him, come into him and eat with him and he with me.

01:29:25

And then he says, The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne. As I also conquered, sat down with my father on his throne.

01:29:32

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So Chris, as I was studying this, and of course,

01:29:39

Laodicea is the lukewarm church, the imagery, the shocking imagery is that this church in Laodicea is literally doing church without Jesus.

01:29:49

When he says he's standing at the door and knocking, we have, in my estimation, have overly personalized this.

01:29:57

We are not feeling the true application of the image of Christ outside the church of Laodicea.

01:30:05

He's literally outside this lukewarm church, knocking on the door, asking to come in.

01:30:11

And God forbid, God forbid, we would be so content with our lukewarm self -righteousness that we in any way could deviate from what

01:30:23

Christ said, once again, in the Upper Room Discourse in John 15. Apart from me, you can do nothing.

01:30:29

Apart from me, we can do nothing. No fruit, no saving power, apart from Christ, we can do nothing.

01:30:39

So this church in Laodicea, part of the reason, part of the diagnosis of why they were lukewarm is because it seems that Jesus Christ is literally on the outside of the church, knocking to get in.

01:30:50

So we should take all sin serious. We should take all sin serious, and if the culture, and every church has its own miniature culture, if that church, yes, as it should proclaims forgiveness of any and every sin, proclaims the true depth of the riches of the grace of God, and yet at the same time uses that grace as a license to sin, not the power to turn from sin,

01:31:22

I believe we are already embroiled in what Jesus describes in Revelation 3 as a lukewarm church.

01:31:30

So one of the ways I think you could tell a church is healthy is you're not only hungry for the truth, right, as Jesus said in John 4, the true worshipers will worship in spirit and truth, but they repent early, they repent often.

01:31:42

They love each other well, they love the Lord, they love the Word, and they also are taking holiness, personal holiness, very seriously.

01:31:54

We have Mateo in Chictuaga, New York, and Mateo says, could an excellent prevention of churches slipping into disobedience be for interaction and fellowship fairly frequently with other like -minded

01:32:17

Christian churches? All too often, churches become islands unto themselves. Even if they're in denominations, they can ignore other local churches that are biblically faithful because they are not in the same denomination, or a denomination might plant a church in some area of the country where they are the only representatives of that denomination, and arrogance can exist where they don't see a need for any fellowship with anyone else.

01:32:45

Can't this be dangerous to the maturity and development and preservation of holiness in a church?

01:32:53

Amen. Yes, and I think there are some places in our towns,

01:33:00

Chris, in our counties, where, my goodness, there's just not many solid options.

01:33:06

There's really not. Now, here's what I am truly blessed by.

01:33:12

I'm part of a pastor's group. It's a pastor's prayer group. We meet once a month, and these are brothers in the

01:33:17

Lord, Chris, that I love and adore, and we're praying for each other, and not all of them, not all of us see everything eye -to -eye as far as soteriology, as far as eschatology, but the first things, 1

01:33:33

Corinthians 15, the things of first importance, we 100 % agree on.

01:33:38

The infallibility, inerrancy of God's Word, we 100 % agree on. So it's good for pastors to be in fellowship with other pastors.

01:33:48

You know, there's this verse in the Book of Proverbs about iron sharpening iron, Chris. I don't know if you've ever heard about that.

01:33:54

Very, very important. So to go to your listeners' points, it's amazing how blind we can become, right?

01:34:04

So here's what I would say. Denominations or associations are not a guarantee of fidelity to Christ and His Word, right?

01:34:14

And then, like that listener was saying, being an island unto yourself, being an independent, fundamentalist church, while it can have its strengths, is not a guarantee of fidelity to Christ and His Word.

01:34:30

So I do believe that you see not only churches being responsible unto the

01:34:36

Lord, and that's why you should pray for your local pastors. Not only does James 3 .1 say teachers will be held to a higher standard, but those who claim to shepherd under Christ, we will have to stand before the chief shepherd one day.

01:34:48

And at the same time, I think it's really, really helpful, Chris. I think it's really, really good. And I think you're excellent at this with your podcast, is that it's so good to bring like -minded believers, solid, faithful pastors and teachers together, and be humble.

01:35:04

And be humble. To listen as they teach Scripture. We're not interested in their ideas. We're not interested in their traditions unless it lines up with the truth of God's Word.

01:35:13

But it's so good. It's so good to hear from other faithful Bible teachers and pastors and ask the question,

01:35:21

Lord, is this applying to me? Have I grown cold? Have I grown blind?

01:35:27

Have I fallen asleep? Lord, help me if I'm lukewarm and our church is spiritually dead.

01:35:35

So to answer that question, sin is sin. It is lawlessness, as 1 John says, and we should be at war with it.

01:35:44

Colossians chapter 3. We should be mortifying sin. And for taking that battle serious, then

01:35:50

I think that creates a certain amount of humility where we'll be teachable to listen to the teachings, the admonishment, and sometimes, yes, the rebuke and accountability of other brothers in the

01:36:01

Lord. How do you revive, how do you seek to revive those

01:36:10

Christians out there who may be so battle -weary that they feel numb?

01:36:18

They've lost a sense of excitement over the faith.

01:36:24

They find themselves dragging themselves to church. They may even be missing the assembling of the brethren far too often.

01:36:35

They have perhaps an overly judgmental spirit about fellow members of their church, and they may think that they're the last voice of truth left.

01:36:50

How do you get through to those kind of folks? Uh, one great example of somebody who became that way, even though he is a hero of the faith of the 20th century, as far as his writing is concerned,

01:37:09

A .W. Pink wound up. Oh, wow. Yeah, he became almost a hermit.

01:37:16

Wow, I love A .W. Pink. Yeah, and he gave up on church attendance and all that.

01:37:23

Wow. But you have any thoughts on, there may be people listening right now, who the only thing that they, the only times they hear teaching, biblical teaching, is because they're listening on a live streamed internet program like this one, or they may watch different teachers on television.

01:37:47

They just don't want to go to worship with the saints anymore. But do you have any, before we go to our final break, do you have any words of encouragement and motivation for Christians to get back to that church?

01:38:03

Or, I mean, obviously there are times when you have to find a new church, but people can be overly quick to do that.

01:38:12

So anyway, any thoughts of wisdom here? Yeah, well, so I would ask the question.

01:38:19

First and foremost, let's go to Christ, our chief shepherd, our good shepherd. And of course, most

01:38:24

Bible -believing Christians would say to the answer the question, does Christ love his body?

01:38:30

Does Christ love his bride? Does Christ love his ecclesia, his called out people, his church?

01:38:37

And of course they would say yes. So I think for us to navigate these days when there is so much apostasy, so much heresy, so much false teaching,

01:38:46

I think it's two tracks. I do think, and I think there's plenty of other brothers that we could point to outside of Scripture, but I'm going to take us to the

01:38:54

Apostle Paul in a second, where it is simultaneously, as we are in this broken world, we are more disgusted by the sin that we see as we grow in holiness.

01:39:08

So that's one track. That's just naturally going to happen. I think most Christians that grow in their faith, they are going to long more and more to be with Christ and to not just be with him, but that the presence of sin would be gone forever.

01:39:23

That's one track. But I think the other track is, and this can happen, especially with those that love doctrine, a love for the brethren, a love for the brethren,

01:39:33

Chris. I mean, yes, we believe Christ loved his church. But let's turn to the Apostle Paul, not just the champion of first century evangelism for the church, such an amazing example of reaching the lost.

01:39:47

But if you listen to his love, Chris, the Apostle Paul's love for these churches and these

01:39:53

Christians, it drips from the page, even as he's repuking them under the inspiration of the

01:39:59

Holy Spirit. Paul's love, whose obvious doctrine is airtight. I don't know any single pastor or preacher that would have the hubris to say that my theology is better than the

01:40:10

Apostle Paul, right? And yet, whether it's the last letter that Paul writes to his protege,

01:40:16

Pastor Timothy, and he's clearly admonishing him to teach the word, but he's training him to continue to care for the flock, finish the race.

01:40:24

I love the beginning of Philippians chapter 1, and especially verses 9 and 10.

01:40:32

I think this is a verse, a passage that gets lost in Philippians and we forget it. So just for your listener, just for yourself, any listener, the

01:40:41

Apostle Paul writes this while in a prison cell in Rome, and he says this in Philippians chapter 1, verses 9 through 11.

01:40:48

He says, it is my prayer, ready, that your love may abound more and more with knowledge and discernment, both ends, so that you may approve what is excellent, so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, the glory and praise of God.

01:41:11

I would use Paul as an example, who clearly saw the dysfunctional nature of so many of these churches, who clearly was receiving the word of God itself, clearly had remarkable, remarkable theology, and his love, his love for these

01:41:29

Christians did not diminish. How can we, by God's grace, stay faithful to the end and live in both of those tracks?

01:41:37

Yeah, it's not easy, but that's the biblical model. Okay, we have an update from Cindy in Findlay, Ohio.

01:41:49

I asked her to be more clear about why she submitted the text,

01:41:54

John 6, 29. She was saying that this is connected to what we were saying about Matthew 7,

01:42:03

Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do mighty works in your name?

01:42:12

And she says, the works we are to do is to believe. Jesus answered them, this is the work of God that you believe in him whom he has sent.

01:42:25

Amen. Obviously, when something is cited from God -breathed words of Scripture, you have to say amen to it.

01:42:35

I guess the problem is that there are hosts of people who think they believe in him.

01:42:43

Isn't that really the problem? Is that you, like these people in Revelation 7, they thought they believed in him, they didn't.

01:42:55

Well, that's why James is such a wonderful, not contradiction to Paul, but a wonderful compliment.

01:43:02

Paul and James are asking two different things, asking two different questions. So Paul in the book of Romans and the book of Galatians is, how can sinners be justified unto a holy

01:43:11

God? And then James is asking, James 2, what about someone that claims to have faith?

01:43:17

And then he answers that question. So James is very, very helpful. If you claim to have faith, but there are no deeds, then the

01:43:27

Bible would say that's a dead faith, like the church in Sardis. So those aren't contradictory, they are complimentary.

01:43:37

And that's why you're going to see a lot of emphasis on works. I mean, bringing it back to Ephesians chapter 2, in those first 10 verses of that chapter,

01:43:45

Chris, we should be very familiar with that chapter in those first 10 verses. It says that we are not saved by work, but we're saved by faith only through grace.

01:43:56

And yet verse 10 says we are saved to do good works.

01:44:02

In fact, we are God's workmanship. So yes, I totally agree. Yes and amen to your listener.

01:44:09

This is the work to believe. And from that believing will come a changed heart, a changed mind, a changed trajectory, repentance over sin, love for God's word, a desire for holiness.

01:44:22

And we're not going to make much of our works. No, in the end, we are going to exalt and magnify the finished final work of Christ.

01:44:31

But if the Holy Spirit does well in you, you will repent of sin and you will desire greater holiness.

01:44:38

Sanctification won't always be a rocket ship to heaven. It's going to be more like a roller coaster at times.

01:44:45

But you will, by God's grace, have a changed heart. And there will be, as John the Baptist said, there will be fruit of repentance.

01:44:52

There will. And I think that's what the scriptures teach. Amen. We have to go to our final break. And once again, if you have a question, send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:45:03

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

01:47:04

Joe O 'Reilly, an Orange Harpins Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

01:47:33

Sir Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

01:47:44

Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

01:47:55

At Linbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

01:48:12

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

01:48:29

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

01:48:37

God's image. If you live near Linbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

01:48:42

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit linbrookbaptist .org.

01:48:49

That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

01:49:01

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

01:49:07

The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend

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God -given rights against the twin threats of tyranny and chaos. If you own a rifle to resist tyrants and criminals, then you should own body armor and a med kit for the same reasons.

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A rifle stops evil, body armor and a med kit keep you in the fight and preserve your life.

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Armored Republic is a body of free craftsmen united to create tools of liberty. We are honored to be your armorsmith of choice.

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Civilian ownership of body armor is about increasing decentralized power, and by comparison, reducing the advantages of centralized power.

01:49:54

The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king. As Americans, we hate the word king applied to any mere man.

01:50:03

We are Armored Republic, and in a republic, there is no king but Christ. Arm yourself with tools of liberty at ArmoredRepublic .com.

01:50:26

James White here of Alpha Omega Ministries announcing that this September, I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend

01:50:34

Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11am,

01:50:40

I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon at Church of the

01:50:48

Living Christ in Then, on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30pm,

01:50:54

I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the Bible is the

01:51:00

Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events. For more details on the

01:51:06

Free Pastors Luncheon, visit IronSharpensIronRadio .com. That's IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

01:51:14

For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org.

01:51:21

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.

01:52:00

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the

01:52:11

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

01:52:16

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:52:23

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

01:52:28

Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the

01:52:35

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

01:52:44

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas, and the

01:52:52

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

01:53:00

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

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Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:53:21

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:53:30

And don't forget, folks, this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Botafuco and Associates.

01:53:37

If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

01:53:42

United States, please call my friend Daniel P. Botafuco, attorney at law, who has been sponsoring this program ever since it launched in 2005 and has been sponsoring every event that I have set my hand to do and to arrange and host since 1991 when

01:54:03

I first met him. Call Daniel P. Botafuco, attorney at law, no matter where you live in the

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United States at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,

01:54:17

1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Make sure you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you contact

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Botafuco and Associates so Dan knows where the reference came from.

01:54:30

That's very important. We are now back with our final segment of today's program with Chris Durkin.

01:54:38

If you could, Chris, I want you to really unburden your heart and mind to leave our listeners today with those things that you most want etched in their hearts and minds before they leave this program.

01:54:51

Let not your hearts be troubled, Jesus said in John 14. I think it's so important, whether you're in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, whether you're along the

01:55:01

Jersey Shore. We've had callers that were texting and calling in from places as far as Oregon.

01:55:08

We should remember the victory of our risen, resurrected Christ. Do not be nervous.

01:55:15

Do not be timid to dive into the book of Revelation, regardless of your eschatology, regardless of your views about the millennium.

01:55:25

Turn to the words of our risen Lord and hear him speak, not just historically to seven ancient churches, but his spirit speaking to our churches today.

01:55:35

I think it would be such a good study for your small group, such a good study for your church, definitely recommend.

01:55:43

I think specifically the book of Romans is something that all pastors should be focused on, centered on, their churches should be familiar with.

01:55:52

But the seven churches of Revelation is something really important that I think a lot of pastors,

01:55:59

Bible teachers, small groups should return back to. And you will be edified by it. You will be convicted.

01:56:04

You will be challenged. It will lead you to dive deeper into God's Word, but there will be great fruit from it.

01:56:10

So continue to trust in Christ as Lord. Maranatha, may he return soon.

01:56:16

But Chris, what a joy it is to be on your broadcast. And thank you once again for all you do. Well, thank you so much for making the time to be on the broadcast.

01:56:25

And I want to repeat the pertinent website for those of you listening who want to find out more about Colts Neck Community Church in Colts Neck, New Jersey.

01:56:40

And the website is coltsneckchurch .com, coltsneckchurch .com.

01:56:48

Don't forget that Pastor Chris Durkin has invited

01:56:54

Dr. Jason Lyle, who was just on this program yesterday, founder of the

01:57:01

Biblical Science Institute. He will be speaking at Colts Neck Community Church on Sunday, November 30th, on the theme of the astrophysics behind the

01:57:15

Star of Bethlehem. Really start off the Christmas season with a great message like that.

01:57:22

And then the following day, the following Monday right after that, is a homeschooling event featuring

01:57:33

Dr. Jason Lyle as well. And again, go to their website for all the details you need at coltsneckchurch .com,

01:57:42

coltsneckchurch .com. Also, folks, keep in mind, make note of the fact that tomorrow,

01:57:51

Wednesday, the 13th of August, we have the privilege of another returning guest,

01:57:58

Dr. Michael Haken, who is a globally renowned church historian and author and conference speaker, and he is going to be speaking on John Newton, the amazing story behind the writer of the hymn

01:58:15

Amazing Grace on the 300th anniversary of John Newton's birthday.

01:58:29

So make sure that you tune into that if you want to find out more about John Newton, the author of the hymn that is probably one of the most globally recognized songs, which started as a poem, the most globally recognized songs, even amongst the lost.

01:58:51

So we thank God for giving us that legacy of John Newton and that precious hymn that all of us who are in the body of Christ love to sing.

01:59:03

I want to thank Pastor Chris Durkin again for being on the show.

01:59:09

I want to thank all of you who listened, and especially those who took the time to send in questions.

01:59:17

And I hope that you all will never forget for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater