Classic Summer 2020: Todd Friel Interview--Unmasking Jesus

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Our guest is already laughing. Down to Moab and Petra. That's February 17th.

You can go to NoCompromiseRadio .com for more details. Wednesdays we like to have interviews, and I have one of my favorite interviewees on the phone right now,

Todd Friel. Welcome to No Compromise Radio. You're going to Israel with that great rock and roll

Christian singing group, Petra? Well, Stryper was busy, so...

I'll bet not. I used to blast Stryper all the time from the pulpit, just as like a joke.

I wasn't blasting, I was laughing. And I had a friend in the congregation, he said, I love Stryper, you know, you're always making fun of Stryper.

And probably two weeks later, I went to a garage sale and got about 10 Stryper CDs for him to make amends.

Yeah, and then he left your church, didn't he? No, he's still around, actually. Wow. So Mr.

Todd Friel's on today. I've got a question for you. Yeah, sure. Where do you support, where's the line for the

Christian making fun and crossing over into the land of hurting people?

How do you know where that line is? Do you know what? Like with Stryper? You know what, Friel? This is my show. It's my show.

And you start off asking questions. I don't do this a lot. Yeah. Here's the really good news. When I guest host your show or something like that,

I have to mind my manners. I'm a man under authority. I know what submission means. But now this is my show, pal.

So zip it, got it? No, I think my, I didn't mean blast, Todd. I meant

I was kind of laughing and you know, it's the hair and everything else. I wasn't trying to demean

Stryper. I was just trying to hurt their CD sales. You know what I've learned about, about daughters is that a man's sense of humor is not always appropriate.

I'm not talking about being coarse or vulgar. That's never appropriate. But I found with daughters, you know, the way that we guys joke around, you know, some of the best things that I can say to a guy are kind of, you know, sharp and stinging.

That's our way of saying love you, bro. Not with daughters. Don't do that with daughters. They don't appreciate the sarcasm like men do.

I am so thankful for a wife and daughters. Very thankful. Todd, I want to talk to you today about your book, your new book.

And another thing, if I could, I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I can't edit this, you know.

So you wrote a book called Jesus Unmasked. The truth will shock you. It's a brand new book.

But before we talk about the book, when I wrote a book about Jesus, I asked you to do an endorsement.

Now, I won't say anything about the lack of endorsement asking in a reciprocal fashion, but I will say this.

Here's what you said about the book that I wrote, Sovereignty and Supremacy of King Jesus. You are holding what is destined to be one of the worst selling books of all time.

That was your line. There are a plethora of books describing Jesus as friend because they sell.

There are very few books that describe Jesus as king. It's about time that a book is written and published to balance the scales of our understanding of God.

Evangelicals need to read this book. So after my sales plummeted because you were prophetic in, this is the worst selling book of all time.

It's like number two billion on the Amazon selling list. Now you write a book called Jesus Unmasked.

So tell our audience why you wrote the book and why it's important to think about Jesus properly.

Well, everybody seems to have their own definition of Jesus as if he's a piece of art and they can apply their own meaning to him.

We see everything from he's a myth to he's Barney, he's tolerant, he's a nice guy.

Maybe he's a miracle, maybe the whole bread thing, but he's just overall a good teacher.

So all kinds of descriptors of Jesus. The question is, who is he really?

So we decided to go into the Bible and ask the greatest source on Jesus Christ, who he is, and that source, of course, is

Jesus Christ, to come up with a biblical description of who Jesus is.

And when you take a look at the entire Bible and what it has to say about Jesus, you are left with the conclusion, the

Bible is supernatural. The Bible is about one subject, Jesus Christ, and the

Bible actually makes sense. It's not a hodgepodge of stories kind of slapped together like we teach the kids in Sunday school.

It actually makes sense. It has a flow and it is all moving toward King Jesus.

Todd, what I like about the book is we're telling people or you're telling people about who

Jesus is as he's revealed in the Bible. And that will help both Christians as they grow in grace.

It'll also help them when they evangelize because the people out there who don't know

Christ in a saving way need to understand the object of their faith. So talk to me a little bit about how this book can help us evangelize.

Well, let me share two points, if I could. Number one, when you take a look at the

Bible and when you understand the point, what is God doing in the universe?

What does the Bible point us to? And everything in scripture is pointing to God's redemptive plan through Jesus Christ.

That's why we have a land called Israel. That's why there's a people called the Jews. That is why he cut covenants with people so that there could be a seed, a seed that came out of this land and this people who is the promised

Messiah. And the entire Bible is about that. So when we read about Daniel in the lion's den, when we read about Nehemiah and building a wall, it's not a management manual.

It's all because God is working things out to bring about Jesus at the fullness of time, the correct time so that we can have a

Savior so he can be glorified. Now, if that is the whole point of the universe, and I think it is based on Acts chapter two and Ephesians two,

God's prearranged plan that people would crucify Jesus, not as a victim, but as a volunteer.

That's what everything is about. So I read about Napoleon Bonaparte. It's still about Jesus.

You read about Genghis Khan. It's still about Jesus. The Roman Empire. It's about Jesus. Everything is about pointing to Jesus, the consummation of history.

It's going to be about Jesus. Now, if we can just kind of get our brains wrapped around that, ask yourself the question, what does that say about the local church?

How does this impact what I do every day? What does this mean when

I go about the business of loving my wife or parenting my children? If it doesn't have some sort of implication for our lives,

I think we're missing the point. If God is all about Jesus, what should

I be about? Cable TV? Football pools? Not that any of those things are necessarily wrong, but what should my life look like?

It should at least a little bit look like what God is about, seeking and saving that which is lost.

The lost coin, the lost sheep, the lost sons. We should be about the same thing that He is about.

Right away, the first point would be it should orient my life to trying to prioritize it the same way that God has it prioritized.

Number two, I think that we should use what the Bible teaches us about Jesus, even from the

Old Testament, to proclaim who He is and not in kind of a, hey, sometimes maybe you've seen that bumper sticker, that sign.

Why don't you try Jesus, and if you don't like Him, you can have your sins back.

Wah, wah, wah. Okay, hold it. He's the creator and the sustainer and the redeemer of the universe.

We need to be proclaiming Him, not as just a toy at the store, and you can try Him out and return

Him if you don't like Him, but as the King, and you must submit. And I would also,

Mike, if I could, and I know I'm preaching here. No, here's what happens, Todd. Just hold on for a second.

Yeah. I'm not getting any other questions prepared, because for a moment, I just was sitting here thinking

I was listening to wretched radio, and I don't have to say this. Yeah, no, but I'm not doing wretched radio, I'm just,

I'm in my office, just talking. No, I'm glad, I preach a way, that's why I have you on the radio.

Go for it. Well, it's just, again, this is kind of big. I mean, the whole reason for the universe, the whole reason is to point us to Jesus so that God can be glorified.

That's it. I mean, so all the other stuff is ancillary. All of it. Now, what does that mean for my local church?

Now, I get it, you know this as a pastor, you do programs, you do stuff, but if those things aren't about ultimately pointing to Jesus, or being done because I've been pointed to Jesus, I'm probably missing the point, or the local church is probably missing the point.

And if most churches would just get in line with what God is trying to do on the earth,

I think that we'd have ourselves a different culture today. Todd, I totally agree, and why is it that if we were to have a conference, and it was a marriage and sex conference, we would pack it out.

If we had a conference on Christology, few would show. Right. You know, and I get that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a conference on those things, but to what end?

Why? I mean, what's the point of studying those things? If it's just to have it in my grab bag, or so that I can throw it down when

I'm talking to the atheists to go, ha, let me tell you what the meaning of sex is, well, okay.

Or if I just do it for a life enhancement endeavor, it's not that God doesn't allow those things.

But again, all things pointing to Jesus, I just need to be mindful, how can

I use whatever information I'm getting to point to Jesus or to direct me to Jesus?

So conferences on sex should point us to Jesus. Conferences on marriage should be pointing us to Jesus, and if they're not, then we're missing the point.

Todd, one of the things I liked about the book is you went through a lot of different Old Testament and New Testament passages that would show the fame of Christ Jesus, show

His honor and His glory. I think it helps the reader go back to the

New Testament and then say the star, the focus, the theme is

Jesus, because we are so apt as frail, sinful humans to open up Hebrews 11, for instance, and say, look at Rahab and look at Abraham, when everything about Hebrews and everything about the

Bible, of course, is talking about the supremacy of Jesus and the superiority of Jesus. But then all of a sudden we get to the

Hall of Faith, and it's all about their faith, not the object of their faith. And so I'm glad the book shows us

Old Testament and New Testament passages with Christ Jesus as the focus. That was planned out, right?

Well, actually, thank you, that was actually the point that I was going to make about evangelism.

How did Paul evangelize? Typically, he'd go straight to the synagogue, made sense, very strategic, and he would reason with them about Jesus from the

Scriptures, not the New Testament, he didn't have one of those. The Old Testament, he reasoned with them from the

Scriptures, and Christianity exploded. It changed Western civilization.

So my thinking is, how did Paul point to Jesus from the

Old Testament? Well, that's exactly what Jesus did on the road to Emmaus, Luke 24. Jesus said to the

Pharisees, you read the words of Moses because in them you think you have life, but they testify about me.

Maybe if we would use our Old Testaments more to say, you know that story right there? That was a picture of Jesus. You know that right there?

That's a picture of Jesus. That piece of furniture, that's about Jesus. That nation, it's about Jesus. Those people, those offices, it's about Jesus, and he fulfilled that in a technicolor reality when he showed up on this earth.

That, to me, is staggeringly powerful. It is not an apologetic for the faith, it's proclaiming the faith by using the word to use the

Old Testament to point to Jesus in the new. I think that could radically change the way we evangelize.

Talking to Todd Friel today. He's the host of Wretched Radio, Wretched TV. He goes on Twitter. One week later he has 10 ,000 followers.

Talking to the Todd Friel. By the way, Todd, I have to say, in the middle of all this, with all sincerity, thank you very much for the opportunities to guest host

Wretched Radio. Oh, dude, I'm so grateful for you. Seriously. If it wasn't for Wretched Radio, Laverne and Shirley would be just Laverne, I think, in terms of spinoffs.

Todd, you are very well spoken. Great host in terms of a media host trying to proclaim who

Jesus is. But I think the book will reveal another side of you. I already knew it, but maybe some of our listeners don't.

You're really scholarly when it comes to understanding scriptures. For instance, when

I hear you talk about Jesus with prophet, priest, and king language, I'm not so sure lots of listeners realize you go to those depths.

You'll talk about superlapsarianism, a bunch of big words. I was very pleased at the scholastic level of the book, because it's not all scholasticism.

I don't mean that. But you've got enough basic stuff mixed in with the deep stuff that you're going to catch people in both ends of the pond.

Yeah, I hope, though, that it's written at a very popular level, because I can't write at a scholarly level, so I presume that's where it is.

Well, you write like you talk. I hear Todd Friel's voice when I read this book. Well, how do you write?

How do you not write like you talk? That's exactly—well, I have a plethora, a bevy of editors.

Ah! That'll always strip the personality out of everything, won't it? No, seriously,

I read the book and I go, this is Todd speaking to me. Except I can stop, reread it, look at it.

And when you said—I think here's my favorite part of the book, Todd, because I'm so against what you're against regarding this.

Be a Nehemiah leader. Pray like Nehemiah. Be a wall builder. Todd Friel says on page 145, to read the book of Nehemiah for leadership lessons is like reading a tale of two cities to learn how to be a good lawyer.

It's like reading Moby Dick to discover fishing trips. I loved it. And then you said it's like reading

The Hobbit for advice on dealing with hairy feet. It misses the point.

Amen, Todd Friel. Yeah, that's—okay, so how do you make sense of the Old Testament?

It's a tale of two covenants, if you will. It is about the Abrahamic covenant, which

God cut with Abraham, a land, a nation, a seed. And he promised, I'm going to make sure there's always a land, there's always a people, and that there's going to be a seed.

Promise, no matter what you do. But then, we see what we would typically call the Old Covenant, which is the covenant with Moses.

It is a quid pro quo covenant. Nation of Israel, act like this, I bless you.

If you act poorly, I'll whack you. Deuteronomy 28. So now as you read through the

Old Testament, keep those two covenants in mind. Why is Daniel not in his home?

It's because the Jews were nutty. They had broken the Mosaic covenant, so God punished them by using a foreign nation.

Why did the Jews return to Israel and Nehemiah was allowed to build a wall and there was then a temple built?

Why? Because God was being faithful to his Abrahamic covenant. And back and forth it goes, so as you read the

Old Testament, and you read about Nehemiah coming back to build a wall, what's the point?

Not management or leadership tips. It is about God's faithfulness to the

Abrahamic covenant that there was going to be a nation, there was going to be a land, and there was going to be a seed.

That's what Nehemiah is about. It's about Jesus. And when you talk about Jesus, Todd, I'm thankful that you talked about what theologians call both the active and passive obedience of Christ.

And so you list in your book, page 88, on the negative side, Jesus never shaded the truth.

He never used God's name as a curse word. He never used coarse or profane language. On the positive side, he always volunteered to help.

He always encouraged. And so Todd, in all honesty, I like the way you discuss these deep theological truths, but you did it in a way that no co -listeners and wretched listeners and lay people would get.

Well, I don't want to, because if you just hear this first half, you're going to go, that's kind of like blasphemous, dude.

God sent Jesus to die on a cross as a volunteer, not as a victim, so that our sins could be forgiven.

But the gospel isn't, if I dare say, just about forgiveness. That's huge.

Jesus passively was obedient and beaten and put on a cross so that the wrath of God could be abated, so that my sins could be paid for.

But the gospel is even better than that. His active obedience, always honoring his parents, never looking with lust, always being obedient, always doing the right thing.

He, if you will, amassed a bank of righteousness, and that gets credited to me.

So I stand before the judge, not just forgiven, but seen as citizen of the century, given the keys to the city because of what

Jesus has done for me. That's an amazing gospel. Well, essentially then,

Todd, we believe that salvation is by works, but it is by the works of Christ Jesus.

Yeah, and we get all of that. I mean, again, not just forgiven. That's huge. But that brings our bank account up to zero.

We have a huge debt we can't pay. He brings it to zero, but then he puts in a gazillion dollars for us because of his righteousness.

We get all of that if we're in Christ. An old Puritan said, my righteousness has been in heaven for 1800 years.

His name is John Bunyan. And if I'm not careful, I might say Paul Bunyan, but I think he's up in Minnesota.

Yeah, with that big blue ox. I read it. There was a Martin Luther quote that just moved me, frankly.

And sometimes, boy, when he would nail it, it was amazing. But he said, Jesus, you are my righteousness.

I am your sin. Well, Todd, here in Massachusetts, it snows a lot.

And so I remember his illustration, Luther's illustration of Christ's righteousness that he earned for all those who would believe.

And he said, it's like looking out at the dung pile. There's a bunch of dung there. It doesn't look good.

It's dung. And then when it snows three inches of just pure, beautiful white snow, you look out and you see not a dung pile.

You just see a beautiful white snow pile. And so just to think, we are sinful. And even our best things are like filthy rags and filthy dung.

Yet Christ Jesus, His perfect life covers us. And we have a righteousness now better than Adam's.

Adam only had his own righteousness, and now we have Christ's righteousness, the last Adam. And another question,

Todd. By the way, you're so good at radio, I don't even ask a question. I just stop talking, and then you can respond.

Most people like questions. You don't need one because you're too good for this. You talk about something that's maybe my favorite subject regarding Christ, and Christ is a federal head.

He's a representative. Tell our listeners a little bit about why that's important to believe

Jesus is the federal head and why you put it in the book. Well, a lot of people kind of bristle at this because it's not very

Marlboro Manny, that we have a representative. But we already do right here on earth.

If our dad, our earthly father, becomes a raging alcoholic and dies in the gutter, he brings shame to the whole family.

Now, I didn't drink that booze. I didn't die in the street. But I still feel that because he represented me.

We have representatives in Congress, and we have a federal head. Hold on, I just need to take my breath for just a second.

Oh, we have a federal head in Barack Obama. He represents us. When he biffs, the country looks bad because he's our federal head.

Well, God had a federal head for us in a man named Adam. He represented us, and we have a tendency to think we would have done better.

We would not. He represented us as a great representative who failed completely.

And because of Adam, we get credited with his unrighteousness. We, too, are born in sin because Adam, our federal head, sinned.

Now, if you go to Romans 5, you will read that that is an anti -type. Adam was a reverse picture of Jesus.

In the beginning, Genesis 1, is a story about a man named Adam who failed. John 1, in the beginning, is the story of the word who succeeded.

So every place where our federal head, Adam, failed, Jesus, our new federal head, succeeds.

That also is the theme of the Bible. Your Old Testament is the story of one man named

Adam who failed. The New Testament is the story of a man named Jesus who succeeded. Todd, I was told at seminary, in Theology 2 class, that when you open your

Bible, you should have your Bible opened naturally to Romans 5.

It's because you've spent so much time studying this great subject of Christ Jesus as our representative.

And so we all, as seminary students, quickly creased our Bibles to Romans 5. So I want you to know that I've put a huge crease in your book,

Jesus Unmasked, on page 168 and 169 on federal head. And I think if people grab that to realize that we have such a great representative,

Jesus was substitute, yes, but he was also our representative. And if the law of God is do this and live, we need somebody to do this so that we can live.

And of course, we couldn't, and so Jesus fills in as the second

Adam. Todd, we've only got about a minute left to go. Tell us what's going on in the works for Wretched Radio, projects, a new book, stuff like that.

I'm writing a new book that's never going to be published. It's called This Has to Stop. It is a loving ledger to the

Evangelical Church, and it's got way too many chapters. It's the stuff that I see in Evangelical Christianity that I wish didn't actually exist.

It'll never get published, so never look for it, because nobody will touch it, because it names names, and it critiques all kinds of stuff lovingly.

We are also doing a new biggest project with Vody Baucom and Ray Comfort, and Easy from Living Waters.

That's our big gospel project. And we've got a new witnessing DVD to help you use the law lawfully in evangelizing and bringing the good news of the gospel.

Well, Todd, thank you so much today for being on No Compromise Radio, as we're authentic together, in community together, missional together, relevant, broken, and wounded.

So I'm glad we could do all those things together. Love you, bro. Thank you. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

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