A Divided Nation Then Thoughts on Ecumenical Councils

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Reflected on the deep division that exists in Western Culture today and in the United States in particular, and then moved on to some of the Jay Dyer stuff and the continued need to have an in-depth discussion on the "7th Ecumenical Council," aka Nicea II.

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00:29
Well, you know, I I'm I feel for those astronauts
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I mean They I when they went up there they brought like eight days worth of underwear
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They're up there for nine months How do you do laundry in space
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I There are some little things, you know, that that's that's really why we haven't gone to Mars yet Is it's not we haven't figured all the other stuff out is that we have north the idea how to do laundry in space and they splash down and They're back and I Am I the only one sitting here going okay, uh
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What are they gonna do with that thing that took him up there and then broke, you know the
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Boeing made Remember when Boeing Meant something when you were like,
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I'm gonna be on a Boeing or we're good. That's that's there Wow Great stuff, you know and now
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It's like well, when was this Boeing? We've we have discovered and this is true, by the way
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We have discovered there's such thing as a kovat coach In the
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RV industry, which I now know almost everything about I am up to I figured
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I figured I'm not round 69 ,000 miles Pulling RVs pulling a fifth wheel now, so that's a few miles few miles and If it was made after March of 2020 for about the next two and a half three years
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The quality is gonna stink and we got stuck with one That that was we lost our shorts on The middle the second one that we had
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Which we put a lot of money into we had that really nice studio in I would have pulled that thing forever it was
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It had one drawback if you get sick Hadn't thought about that part
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No place to if you're sick, but other than that it was great, but it was a kovat coach and that's why
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The the frame bowed too much and what most people don't realize is RV roofs are glued on They're literally glued on and if you take anything is glued and do this enough times
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It's gonna break and it's gonna peel back and that's what happened to us Right down to the wood before I got home.
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I remember I pulled into Lordsburg, New Mexico My last stop on the way back and you know seeing the wood up there and like thankfully it wasn't raining
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On the way way back that time but yeah, but the quality of everything just crashed and If you're sitting there wondering
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The one that we bought that was used was built in September of 2019 so it was not a kovat coach and We are very very thankful about that But anyway
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How did I get on to how did I get there from Boeing? anyway Yeah, I Just really wonder
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I feel for these folks. I feel for their families But they did an interview.
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I saw an interview on Twitter and one of them's Clearly some kind of a
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Christian. I couldn't tell what kind of a Christian whatever else but he was basically saying, you know my
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Lord's gonna work this for my good and So he's in control and I'm good with it, you know
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I just how do you go from eight days to nine months? I I don't
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I I don't know how it works I'm very thankful to SpaceX.
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I'm going I'm going I'm getting them, but I'm sitting here going Why didn't we do this before and why didn't
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Boeing pay to do this? It's their craft that got them marooned up there
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What it I don't know. I don't know But I do have a public service announcement for a bit but first In regards to the
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RV. I I'm hoping to pick it up next week Go get it briefly. Anyways in our storage spot undercover because I've seen a 91 degrees for next week one time
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Here it comes. It's not I mean, it's nice and cool today. It is 68 degrees in my house
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So So it's nice right now
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But we live in Arizona and it's it's gonna hit eventually it it lasts for nine months out of the year
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So it's sort of how it is but I hope to pick her up next week and I'm Looking for this next trip
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More so than normal after the last trip Once you have to drag stuff into hotels and try to find food and try to sleep and No, no,
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I've I've become spoiled it. It is a wonderful way. What a way to travel not overseas But it's it's wonderful.
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So I'm looking forward to it But we do have a travel fund link at a omin org if you this next trip really looking forward to it
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It's the Louisiana loop travel fund That's what I'm calling it because I go to Louisiana and take a loop around the state and come home
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That's just how it's gonna work. We're gonna be in Livingston at the same time as Leonard Skinner. It's gonna be in Livingston and I think
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I Think the original Leonard Skinner is buried somewhere by now.
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I imagine I don't know Look all these old all these bands. You look at those people. They look like they should be buried
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But anyways, there's gonna be a big old honkin music festival thing going on the very same weekend that I'm debating dr.
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Doug Levesque on the King James Version of the Bible being the best translation that we should use and I'm actually gonna have to stay a good distance from Livingston because everything is art was already booked up We didn't realize it.
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And so I hadn't made my RV reservations and the one parked there. It's a nice park But it's of course full up and so I'm gonna be driving a good distance to get there
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But that'll be April 4th I have posted the link on Twitter You do need to if you're gonna be in the area gonna gonna come need to click on that link and I Don't know, you know, it's it's just for there's a limitation as to how
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I think we can only have 400 people in the room approximately And that'll be
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April 4th and I'm looking forward to that one. I've listened to a number of dr.
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Levesque's presentations and He's a good speaker Seems like a really nice guy
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But King James only ism is still King James only ism and it you know, I was listening to a presentation he made where he's talking about Sinatics of Vaticanus and the papyri and you should picture them as burning with the flames of hell and Satan standing in the midst of the flames and it's like well, okay
08:12
See, I don't I don't view the Byzantine manuscript tradition that way or anything like that at all
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In fact, I was just before the Program started. I was looking at my dad's Bible I need to talk to Jeffrey because he said he can fix this and I I really want him to There you go and But you know, here's my dad's
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Bible King James first Bible. I read all the way through as a King James There's nothing nothing wrong.
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It's just that it's You know over 400 years old and King James translators themselves would be extremely shocked and surprised if Anybody was running around saying that's the be -all and end -all of all things but It will be it will be an interesting encounter and I think because you know when you think about it, we've done very few
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Debates on that subject. We've done I did we did one. I Wasn't I was on radio that was
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I Think that was on a radio program not even sure if I have that listed in my in my group of debates
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But there will be plenty of cross -examination plenty of time to really get into the text We're always trying to find somebody on that side.
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We've tried to get some of the real Rippling or Ruckman fans to get out from behind the pulpit that they're screaming.
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Amen behind To to engage in a meaningful encounter and just just can't do it.
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So That'll be April 4th in Livingston, Louisiana, and then
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I'm just After I preach there on Sunday popping up the road actually you go through Jackson.
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I think on the 55 because I'm I've learned my lesson. You don't take those smaller highways to the middle
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Yeah They're narrow they're rough. No, I'm gonna take the the interstate up that way up to the 20 up to the
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Calhoun area With Trey Fisher and the folks up there and then I'm gonna be going over to skip rainbolts place as well
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But we have a debate with aka Richardson on the 10th on Romans 9 again
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I've heard two debates that he's done in Romans 9. So You know,
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I basically have his outline. He certainly shouldn't have any problems coming up with my outline As far as you know the debate with Leighton flowers
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Books and everything else that we've dealt with on that subject So what happens when you have two people who know exactly what the other person is gonna say when they debate?
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well You Can't sit there and go why I didn't think he was gonna say that no
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I I could be wrong and he could all of a sudden come up with a completely different perspective. I suppose but I Really don't expect that to happen at all.
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So It should mean that both our presentations should contain
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Pre -emptive refutations of the other and That the cross -examination should be pointed and Purposeful and not wandering around hopefully not wandering around out in the woods someplace
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But yeah, so we'll be we'll be up there in the i -20 corridor in northern,
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Louisiana as I make the loop and and head back so Very much looking forward to that Indeed just real quickly.
11:47
I Again, Twitter tends to do these things to me As I was sitting here getting ready for the program this video pops up from the
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Fort Myers City Council and there is a motion before them to authorize local officers to cooperate with ice and You have two women and a guy
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Okay The guy almost never moves he's just sitting there looking like he wants to be on another planet at this point in time because The gal who
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I don't know if she's in charge or just that's just the way the camera is sitting She's in the middle. So I don't know.
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I'm not sure how many people are on the city council the two ladies start crying
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They start weeping Because of how a horrible and evil it is
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That anyone would would ever want to deport anybody for any reason at all.
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I mean We we now have judges Who think that they can control?
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how the government responds to threats internal threats and external threats
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It it truly is amazing, but we we still live in a
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Divided land What happened in November hasn't changed any of that for four years at least
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Probably for four years We're gonna see things done very differently
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Might that Help a number of people go.
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Oh, I guess it is sort of what you got to do If you want to have the nation survive, I don't know I Look at the educators in the public educational system.
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They haven't changed All they're doing is changing DEI to other names
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They're still pushing all the LGBTQ stuff that the public school system
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I'm sorry to all the good public school teachers, but you know, this is true You know what the
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NEA is like, you know what its worldview is And it does have a worldview even if people think it's a dumb word to use
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They have a worldview they function out of And they are producing the students that end up at Columbia University in New York Rioting to try to protect people who want to destroy the entirety
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United States. I mean literally there that The groups there are saying we need to destroy
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Western civilization Columbia exists because of Western civilization these
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Well, there was a famous man who used to refer to these people as as having young skulls full of mush
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And that's what they are they're young skulls full of mush they've never lived life They've been given everything on a silver platter
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And they go off to Columbia to get a worthless degree and party and become radicals and Half of them have already for example
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Used the medical system that Western civilization provided to them
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They're not going to Haitian witch doctors They're not using
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Chinese herbal medicine They are having MRIs and things like that which
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West the Western world Did this science thing because back then we believed that you could study
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God's creation And you would find it to be consistent and coherent and you could do scientific experimentation
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And guess what if you do experiment today? It'll probably do the same thing tomorrow because of the regularity of nature because God created all these things
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This was back before we became idiots and secularists But these these are the people that are going to be voting
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And Four years from now. They're gonna be fewer of us old folks, even though I can't believe how many people my age
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Have succumbed to the idiocy the utter idiocy of the secular left.
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I just I'm like really Haven't you seen how this all goes before and it's like, oh, they they don't get it
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So there are still two nations here and I'm concerned that a lot of people are
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You know, are you tired of winning yet? Okay, you know whole lot better than I I sit back and go
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Kamala Harris. Did did she really run for president United States? Did people give her over a billion dollars to run for president
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United States. Did that really happen? I Mean, I'm sorry, but she was she had she still has the
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IQ of a wet shoelace. I Just how did that happen? How did people get excited about someone like that that that's nothing but a word salad
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I it befuddled me that it befuddles me now, but here's the problem if Gavin Newsom's the next guy out because he's trying to read
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Brand himself and move to the middle as they always know. We you know where he really is
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Who's gonna vote for that guy next next time And if he gets in there my concern is you know
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Biden took all the he removed all of the safeties on the torpedoes and He was doing all this stuff with executive orders
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The Congress is functionally gridlocked you can't get anything through Congress Because it was designed to be inhabited by people who would vote for the best the country
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The problem is you now have two countries represented in the
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Senate the United States and Maybe you know,
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I suppose I'm trying to find a silver lining someplace but maybe We will see what's happening in Europe though, let's be honest
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Europeans look over here we don't tend to look over there That was my experience. I traveled over there wherever else in the world
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But Europe is committing civilizational suicide right now You the
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UK I don't I do not even recognize it and the last time I was in the UK was in 2019 And I loved going to the
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UK. I loved going to London. I loved riding the tube. I loved running the streets I've told you before if you want to I'm not sure it's same now, obviously, but up till 2019
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You could get up early in the morning if you were staying in downtown London, and you could run along the
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Thames and I would do squares Across London Bridge past Big Ben down past the eye
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Back cross the bridge over there or maybe go farther down. I mean you could run wherever you wanted to run and Not run into anybody as long as it was around sunrise.
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I'm as quiet as a tomb Two hours later. You wouldn't be able to run anywhere because there'd be too many people
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But they are not early risers now. You can't run at night I guarantee you that but man,
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I just What a beautiful beautiful place so much Christian heritage and it's it has been you need to understand something we may sit here and go well, they're gonna lose their
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Christian heritage in the sense that Once the Muslims take over they're gonna tear down all the stuff that reminds them of Christianity or convert into a mosque or whatever else
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But you see That's not losing it that's because it's already been lost
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That's past tense If you don't love it anymore, if you don't even know what it is It's just something you drive by you walk by you take a bus by or whatever.
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You've already lost it and what it meant So maybe you know
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Germany just voted to indebt itself even more and I Didn't double -check this but it sounds like what they're doing to put it into their
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Constitution That within 20 years they have to have net zero
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Which which means the end of the German economy and guess which economy in Europe runs pushes
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Europe the German economy. I Mean, it's just it's it's insanity on every level
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But I'm meeting a whole lot of really insane people and then right now they're not as loud as they were before Because of what happened and in the election, but they are still there and There is there is only one way
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To reunite a divided nation and And On a surface level that can be done by saying remember 9 -11.
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No most you don't that's the amazing thing Just just think about that. I mean most
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Young people have no earthly idea Anybody under 30 really just doesn't have any idea what that was like, but for a few months
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Everybody was Americans again That doesn't last long and I said at the time did
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I not well you I don't know I wouldn't have listened to that many dividing lines. Well, I can understand that But we can document
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It's out. It's it's there we can document that on September 13th of 2001 we did the first dividing line after that and I My message was clear at the time
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God bless America. That's what everybody's saying. God bless America. I said the only way we can ask for God to bless
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America is if he blesses America with heartfelt soul -shattering repentance and I said if if we see a change in the society if we see a recognition of the evil of abortion the evil of homosexuality
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Okay, then maybe God is blessing this nation in that way, we didn't see any of that and That unity that existed for a while didn't last long
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And the only way that a unity can actually be produced Unfortunately, we've got wacko
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Quote -unquote Christian nationalists running around Thinking that unity is found in your ancestry or the color of your skin
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That's not where unity comes from What we used to do in this nation is when you if you legally immigrated this nation
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You had to you had to pass certain tests. You had to swear certain allegiances
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Most of the people who became American citizens knew more about the Constitution United States almost anybody born here.
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I mean The kids I graduated with and this would have been in 1981
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In high school Constitution Amendments what wouldn't have had no idea in comparison to someone who had to come here legally and Pass the test to do stuff like that the the foundation for a unified nation is in its worldview is in its commitments and It doesn't matter what color your skin is
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It doesn't matter where your grandpappy and Everybody else came from if you have a heartfelt commitment to that nation and its betterment
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Great fantastic Secularism destroys all of that Secularism is the battery acid of human civilization spirituality anything it's
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It's vile. It's anti -christian. It's anti -human Because it leads to Nietzsche's void that there's no place else to go.
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There's there's no meaning no transcendent value no beauty and So the only thing that I can see that will bring this nation
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Any kind of prosperity in the future? Oh, we can do things now we can you know, but look, okay
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We'll admit Somebody somebody sort of ran through the
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List of Probable candidates For the
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Democratic nomination in 2028 and I'll have to admit if that was the if it stays that way
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Okay, we might have more than four years. We might have 12. I mean there are literally people there
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There are Democrats sitting going now. We're We are we are so messed up that It's gonna take forever but Eventually power corrupts
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People who have power do stupid things and so you're gonna get scandals and you're gonna get this and you're gonna get that and the other side's gonna take over and Like I said now all the safeties are off on the torpedoes
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If you don't if you've if you if you don't know what that means You haven't watched the hunt for Red October, which okay, when did that come out
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Wow Well, yeah early 2000s
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Alec Baldwin was a young man. Yeah But Yeah, and and and the
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Scottish guy doing the Russian accent was really bad but it was it was it was a great film It was really really well done
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You need to watch if you haven't seen Hunt for Red October. You need to see hunt for Red October.
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It was it was awesome and it will explain to you safeties on torpedoes Really well anyhow we the other guys are gonna take over and they're gonna do the same thing only worse and we're gonna be in this pendulum swing of Two Nations wrestling with one is sort of like the twins and Sarah's and in Her room not in her room
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Sarah. Anyway, the Romans nine it's sort of like the same thing and Pulling at each other, you know who's gonna get who's gonna get oh stop that who's gonna get born first type of situation and No nation can survive that you can't have a nation that goes one direction for four years and then the other next for four years and the other direction of four years it will
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Try that in an aircraft Try that just 180 -degree turn and eventually the wings fall off.
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I mean the thing falls apart it comes it comes it can't work. You can't work So, I don't know what the future is gonna hold
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Really can't I really don't know. All right, um, I am
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I've been informed that Jay Dyer Did a webcast? Talking about what happened last week, and I don't care
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I really don't if anyone can watch that man's behavior and See what he's doing with his life and How he behaves and Then believe almost anything he has to say what can
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I say? I'm I can't help you You're not gonna you're always gonna disagree with me or or think that I'm worthless or whatever fine.
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I don't care I Don't exactly know why
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I Gave him as much credit as I did To even think about doing a major debate with him because I think it'd be really important.
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It's a violent and we've I've had Friends contact me and say you need to contact this person that person one or two names have come out come from everybody as Individuals who are adults
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Have self -control You know when you think about there are certain people out there that You know set up their their iPhone on their kitchen table with their unwashed dishes in the background
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And Do two and a half hour videos thinking that everybody in the world needs to hear everything they have to say and they do it multiple times a week and They just go on long harangues for hours at a time
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I Don't want at my point in life. I do not want to purposefully knowingly debate anybody
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Who would fit in perfectly in the third grade playground okay, I just don't
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I've had to do that a few times my my life and Uh, I just don't have any interest in it.
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Not not anymore. Don't I have nothing to prove. I mean seriously, come on I got nothing to prove as to The subject style debate and stuff like that And if you don't if you don't have self -control
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If you don't if you can't control your tongue your arrogance your pride your anger
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If and if you have to behave like Jay Dyer behaved Talking about a gay lisp,
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I mean seriously, you've got to be kidding me There's no reason to even communicate with such folks you just you know, don't don't poke the rabid dog
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Just just walk on by quietly and They'll they'll they'll self -destruct on their own, you know, they'll they'll blow up on their on their own.
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You don't have to Be throwing throwing matches at them though. They'll go poof on their own.
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So But like I said, I said a week and a half ago lies have long lives
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I ran to some guy on Twitter just yesterday. Yeah, but you don't think
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Ignatius existed. Oh my god, you know There's two and a half hours a video out there
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Explaining everything They don't care. I Said when it first happened in the first program afterwards,
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I said five years from now five years from now I'll have somebody if I'm still
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Kicking and even if I'm not Somebody else have to deal with it
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Who will pull that lie out and throw it out there because lies have long lives
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They go on forever and ever and ever because there are people who want to believe things. That's how they They know that We have stood up against the best the other side has to offer in many many different areas and So they can't answer arguments.
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So what they have to try to do is find a way to calm their own conscience and well
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He can't be right about that because he's wrong about that over there. And and that's that's how you That's how you run this kind of stuff.
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And it's um, it's a shame Oh Algo just posted the
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Link a sober word following 9 -11 No, I haven't
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I haven't looked at that I haven't I Have you yeah, I'll repost that I'll repost that I remember
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Now this is weird, I'm The the visual memory that I have of doing that isn't over in the corner
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Where we started doing the dividing line where the the desk was over in that corner of the garage back then
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I Thought I was More out in my office someplace
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That's strange Yeah, that may be maybe where I was because we didn't have to worry about videos or anything
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Yeah, yeah, we didn't have video back then to even think about it and still wish that we never had anyway
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So, yeah, I just reposted the a sober word following 9 -11 so Yeah, I was 24 years ago coming up on 24 years ago and not much has changed as far as what is really needed in in the nation is
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Major change along those lines. So anyway so my Hope is to and I'm not making contacts yet I've got too much stuff going on between now and the next trip, but I've got a little time
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Got a bunch of stuff. I got to do at home Before a summer trip But during that time
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I want to get hold of these individuals that have been recommended to me as being mature well read self -controlled
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To represent the other side and then I really do want to Debate the
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Seventh Ecumenical Council Because the more I've been diving into it The more convinced
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I have become that it is Fundamentally the
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Achilles heel There's a lot of Achilles heels for Rome. There's all sorts of stuff papacy and the
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Marian dogmas and all all that kind of stuff but with the rise of interest in Eastern Orthodoxy and the you know
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Dyer was talking about well, we should I challenged him to debate and this goes in often to all this stuff.
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That's Incredibly esoteric Just just way out there
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I mean, you can't really argue that has anything to do with the Apostles that it develops in much later period of time
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At least if you deal with Nicaea to the
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Seventh Ecumenical Council 787 You're dealing with the topic that is relevant to both
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Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism because both accept it as valid And not just well, we'll accept it but as authoritative.
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It's anathemas. It's infallible and Of course once you get into it and you find it, you know, they're quoting forged sources and they're giving you exegesis that People at the time found laughable let alone after the
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Reformation What you'll hear and this is true and of other councils is what they'll say is well the argumentation of The council is not infallible only the conclusion
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The same thing with the Pope so Everybody knows that Roman Catholicism has completely misinterpreted
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Genesis chapter 3 and read Mary in there and all the rest of stuff and Roman Catholic scholars will admit
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That that was a mistake that that the understanding that was used as part of the argumentation
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Regarding Mary and the the seed and all of us that was was in error So error in the
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Vulgate understanding the Vulgate Things like that, but that doesn't change the fact that the statement that the conclusion
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Coming from the art the errant argument will always be infallible. Let's just think about that for just a second
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That that tells you almost everything you need to know about supposedly infallible statements and where they come from and things like that as Long as it's defined in a certain way then that's going to be authoritative you have to believe it and you go but but the argument to get there was all wrong doesn't matter as Long as so -and -so said it.
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It's it's true and it's like Wow, so by dealing with that and what's interesting this is another important illustration another important illustration here is
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I know in most church history classes if you're not actually studying church history as a major or something like that and the vast majority of seminaries don't have a special, you know special Church history track where you're you're just gonna be go teach church history some do
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But the vast majority of pastors that go to seminary, you know You take a couple of couple fast classes and that's about all there is to it.
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I wonder how many people on I would imagine
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Probably I'll give them credit for this. I bet you the Eastern Orthodox would have the highest percentage of their own people that could tell you the first seven ecumenical councils and Might even tell you what they're about On that no,
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I'm not saying that there's not no nominal Eastern Orthodoxy there is and they might not have a clue but because they have that's where their emphasis is
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I mean how many Roman Catholics honestly that you know could tell you The first seven ecumenical councils or anything after that and part of that I know
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There is no infallible listing of what the ecumenical councils are to begin with East and West disagrees over that And once you once you dive into it and and look
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Protestants again Much less useful term because it's not unified.
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It doesn't talk about a particular Set of theological beliefs things like that But yeah vast majority people
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I know wouldn't have a clue How many people even know when the Council of Nicaea met?
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Let alone Nicaea too And then you really start digging into it and it gets even messier
40:28
Because you find out after the Council of Nicaea The Aryans take over They take over and there are you know,
40:38
Sirmium, Ariminum. There are these councils that meet in the decades after Nicaea and And They compromise the
40:48
Nicene faith and that's why Athanasius says nope Not doing that. That's why he keeps getting kicked out five different times and That's when you realize wait a minute this so they had no idea that Nicaea was ecumenical in the first place because no one had
41:03
Ever heard of an ecumenical council. No one had ever Invested that kind of authority in one of these meetings.
41:09
This is all anachronistic. We're all looking back with modern eyes And that's why and I think it was
41:16
Norm Geisler. I really think it was I remember I think it was Norm Geisler who said
41:21
I accept the first seven ecumenical councils and I'm like, no you don't and and it wasn't just that each one of these councils had canons that which were regular regulations for priests and bishops and Eventually monasteries and monastic orders and all the rest that kind of stuff which if you're not a
41:40
Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Meaningless to you but even the Fundamental assertions that they made if they they promulgated the decree the
41:48
Caledonian decree at four fifty one something like that if they did that if you go to if you go to Nicaea too and You look at what they said you you telling me you you accept the fundamental assertion that Veneration of icons and I'm not just talking about you know, we use term veneration.
42:07
Oh, we're talking religious devotion kissing the icons they said that's that is
42:14
Apostolic and it most clearly is not I Mean a book just came out back.
42:21
This is interesting. Let me tell you I had a lady on Twitter about a month ago
42:28
Contacted me on Twitter. I forget what caused this But she said I used to be a big fan of you and Jeff Durbin I listened to all the apologia stuff in the
42:37
Hawaiian Yards and and I've become Eastern Orthodox and It's obvious that this is what the
42:44
Apostles taught and then she mentions this book And here this this proves that prior to the
42:50
Council Nicaea they were venerating icons We'll do some work on it the only thing
43:01
I know that's out there on it right now because it only came out last year Um Gavin Ortlund and By the way,
43:10
I said on the program about what three weeks ago or so said that you know Gavin clearly doesn't like me that was based on some back -and -forth that I could tell was going on between Gavin and Trent Horne Gavin to his credit contacted me and said
43:25
I I Apologize That was never what I intended to communicate to anybody
43:33
And I don't want you to think that I have something against you along those lines and so we had you know have had some nice back -and -forth since then and You know, we don't agree about everything.
43:45
But when it comes to this area, especially especially with Eastern Orthodoxy and the historical stuff
43:52
The guy's really solid. He's really really good and he did a He did a response
43:59
To the author of this book. So the the guy who wrote the book that came out late last year
44:06
That was being recommended me to see this will prove it he was on webcast before that and Gavin Ortlund walked through the examples of alleged veneration of icons prior to Nicaea All I can say is that level of desperation and It is desperate.
44:32
I mean the equivocation going on is astonishing Is itself proof
44:39
That what Nicaea said what Nicaea too said was completely wrong It was just now but here's here's the neat thing.
44:47
I wasn't gonna do this today I was gonna do a review of some of the points in the in the debates.
44:53
We haven't gotten to maybe I'll still have a few minutes at the end But this is something that I have emphasized over and over again on this program and I know some of you are tuning out right now because you don't care
45:05
Let me before you before you hit the stop button. Can I say something? over the years
45:13
I've had so many people who've come up to me and They've said my son my daughter.
45:18
My husband. My wife has gone off into this guy off of that And I didn't know how to respond to them.
45:26
I didn't know how to react to this I've been going through your stuff and man if I just listened to the whole program if I just not turn stuff off when
45:34
I did I would have heard the answers to my to my issues and So there is a reason to put the work into knowing something about church history
45:47
When you talk about what we might call historical epistemology, how do you how do you know what a group teaches?
45:53
How do you if a group T it claims it has infallible authority? You know, how do you know how
45:59
I've used the illustration for how would you have known that honorius was wrong to be a monothelite in the 30 years between when he taught it and when it was condemned and He was condemned as a heretic
46:13
How would you have known? How did you know during the Aryan resurgence the
46:19
Aryan ascendancy ascendancy after the council and I see it How would you know that Ariminum and Sirmium were wrong?
46:25
What was the basis? What was the basis Athanasius used to say that those councils were wrong?
46:31
Scripture by the way But if you're looking to a church organization and there are entire decades where you have no way of knowing and Second Nicaea is a really good illustration of this
46:47
We're gonna I need to find the time to put together a real nice keynote presentation where we can put it on a timeline
46:55
So you can see the Council of Hieria and then Nicaea 2 and then
47:02
Frankfurt. These are three councils Hieria 754 754
47:09
I think I don't have a blank screen in front of me Um No, I mean,
47:15
I just don't have anything up. Um Hieria was an iconoclastic
47:21
Council get rid of icons strongly condemns icons Nicaea to How what do you call people?
47:32
Who use icon a dulya? Icon of duels there's different icon of philia.
47:38
There's different ways of Coming up with it, but people who venerate icons So they completely reverse
47:46
Okay, how between those two councils? How do you know which one's right? Because the area claimed to be because there's what?
47:55
30 33 years between them. So how you know here a claim to be a ecumenical so, how do you know and Since it's a topic that the the councils before that have never addressed.
48:09
How do you know you don't? You don't But Nicaea too is still going to anathematize you and everybody that was at Hieria that hadn't died by then
48:21
And then Frankfurt comes along After Nicaea And takes what might be what might be seen as a
48:37
Not a mediating position because Frankfurt denied The veneration of icons, but they weren't as Cut and dried and Nasty I guess as Hieria because Hieria and Nicaea too
49:00
There's no room for disagreement Anybody who disagrees with us on this anathema off with their heads and there were people dying and being chucked in prison and stuff like that over this stuff
49:13
Frankfurt's like let's not kill anybody about it, but We reject what
49:18
Nicaea too has said. This is not apostolic This does not go back to the Apostles.
49:24
This is anti -scriptural and so Hieria and Frankfurt are in agreement at that point.
49:31
They're just a different Temperature shall we say that's good term a little lower temperature with Frankfurt.
49:38
Well, it's probably colder there. But anyway So, so how are you supposed to know
49:44
I Mean Frankfurt was called by Charlemagne Charles the
49:49
Great Much better known to church history than Empress Irene who called
49:56
Nicaea too and Who to keep her son from becoming
50:02
Emperor had him blinded and thrown in prison So, how are you to know
50:11
Given given what we're told So those couture a blueprint for anarchy Okay, so you want to have you want to have councils deciding all this stuff, huh?
50:22
Okay. All right So, how'd they know? The answer is there's no way on God's green earth.
50:28
They could they couldn't know so What do you do?
50:33
What do you do? So I think it's in fact I've been digging up Good solid scholarly stuff.
50:45
There are a bunch of articles that I'd already read that Made reference to this one
50:52
Rich has been wondering what in the world I've been buying because generally I if I can get on Kindle I send it to him on that and then he
50:59
Buys it for me and I put it on my Kindle and stuff, but this isn't available in Kindle sadly Images iconoclasm and the
51:06
Carolingians by Thomas FX noble not a small little work Lot of the books on this subject or not real small
51:15
But this goes through Frankfurt and its response to Nicaea to and and all the stuff that's going on there
51:21
So there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff I've shown you the other books that You know price and things like that and they're you know, they thick a lot of material to be to be dug through but it is there most people don't know anything about it and It's it's far beyond the normal level of apologetic stuff that's happening online
51:44
That that's for sure. Did you raise your microphone? I did I one of the questions
51:50
I've been wanting to ask you is and Without having to go back and re -listen to the debate the debate on veneration of Saints and images.
51:57
Did you mean with Madrid? Yeah, did I don't recall you guys getting into this in that one, but it seems like there'd be some overlap
52:07
Um, yes That debate goodness that was online
52:13
I was one of the great debate series is on Long Island I would have been what about Oh for maybe
52:21
Somewhere in that area. Oh five something like that Yeah, my argumentation in that was not church history if if I Manage to get this debate set up.
52:35
It's going to be solely focused on The ecumenical nature of the council and not anything else.
52:43
So Especially given the context and the audience we were focused there on the biblical material and I Couldn't tell you now.
52:57
I could just take the I could take the video of that drop it into my program on my
53:03
Mac spit out of a You know transcript of it and do some searches and things like that.
53:11
I don't recall off top my head whether Patrick Said almost anything about Nicaea to or anything like that at all because because in my opinion
53:24
Rome endures Nicaea to but it's the east that lives on Nicaea to So it's interesting how the same council has been functionally interpreted
53:38
Differently. Oh No, this this must be an algo thing. Of course, he would know 2002 is immediately.
53:46
It's like he's right there 2002 there you go. I'll go. Can you tell us whether or not?
53:52
Yeah, I see it too came up at all Yeah, did did Patrick Madrid ever talk about Nicaea to since obviously algo has it memorized?
54:00
There you go, we'll we'll see what comes back from that. Let's see if he's as fast as grok
54:06
Grok and algo they both. Hey, you know what they both have three letters grok and algo and I'm sort of starting to wonder if I'll go maybe
54:18
Grok and algo four letters. That's I said, oh Um Yeah, they both have they
54:27
Bob okay, they both have the same number of letters so I'm wondering if algo has just always been a beta testing
54:36
AI That's just been around for a lot of years a lot a lot of years
54:41
Well, you know there were people who were in the old channel trying to guess what I'll go stood for I happen to know what it stands for but a lot of people guess that it meant algorithm.
54:52
Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that doesn't but you know, there's something there. Yeah. Yeah.
54:57
Yeah, it just appeared on my thing here Madrid debate was 2002 so He did not mention
55:05
I see it too I did not think yeah, I just popped up on mine, too Yeah, I did not I'll go says it therefore it is we
55:15
Well, I'll be honest. I've I've caught grok on a number of things recently and So you you never you never know but anyhow
55:27
Yes, thank you, thank you I'll go who is listening even right now so yeah,
55:33
I I think I think there will be some real use to that and Like I said after this next trip then
55:40
I'll start making reaching out and making some contacts as I I Want this to be something that's done.
55:45
Well, I want to be something something that's done in a good spot a good location And I'm not talking about anything before the end of the year or early next and And and so I'll finish up with this and then we will on the next program
55:58
We will I want to get into some of the stuff that didn't end up getting said in the debates.
56:04
Like what is propitiation and Why was there? why did it seem to me that Joe Heschmeier was much more interested in trying to do early church stuff than to even define what what
56:16
Propitiation is because I think it's a that's a Tough spot for them. They have to deal with I did start getting into indulgences and stuff like that because they have an entire theological system that they have to defend at those particular points, but So we'll we'll see about that, um
56:36
But now that made me that made me jump track and where I was gonna go with the last one That that's no fun you start thinking about those debates and and things like that and you can't end up going there
56:47
That's a bummer There was something that had happened in in Twitter that had bothered me a great deal and I was gonna just sort of finish up with that in the last three minutes, but it has it has gone the way of the dodo bird and I'm just noticing the
57:08
They're they're taking the guys out of the spacecraft the space capsule, you know after nine months in space
57:16
Especially when you weren't prepared for it. Ooh That's yeah, hmm
57:23
He's gonna be somewhat immobile for a while. I would imagine lots a lot of bone loss muscle loss stuff like that They normally try to get you all beefed up to do that, but not for an eight -day journey.
57:33
That's it's not gonna matter. So Just go over the weekend, honey, I'll be back Mow the lawn when
57:40
I get back. Okay Can you find the house now, I'm not sure that's
57:47
Sort of a sad way to some way to do things. Yeah.
57:54
Yeah. Oh, yeah. He did Can you imagine the honey -do list when he gets home? Whoo. Oh Wow Let's hope that He's got some older older boys or something that have been keeping up a lot of stuff or we'll never
58:08
Never see that poor guy again. I feel sorry for along those lines, but I'm glad they're back I'm glad they're back in one piece and they're safe and and all the rest of stuff.
58:15
That's um, that's a good thing. So anyway next program we will
58:22
Talk about some of the It seemed to me that in both debates a minor issue sometimes not even on the topic
58:32
Ended up Distracting from what should be the primary issue.
58:38
And so I I preached Sunday afternoon on the atonement and a
58:48
Lot of what I said was directly relevant really for everybody else to that particular topic.
58:53
So If you want to hear some of those comments, I'll be making that was that was there and I did it in only 45 minutes
59:01
Which by the shortest sermon at apologia that I've ever heard But we were gonna try to do baptisms.
59:07
Did you hear about this? We were gonna try to do baptisms the Presbyterians don't want us to do baptisms. It's a
59:12
Presbyterian Church No, no, no, no. No, no what they did for years is they wouldn't fix the heater and So we were doing the
59:26
Didache, you know Baptized in cold water. Oh, yeah that way and we kept asking kept asking.
59:34
So finally they got The heater fixed but the problem is they ran only one water line
59:43
Into the baptistry because it's an old Baptist Church. So it's got a full baptistry. They just never use it
59:49
And it goes to the heater So We they didn't get it started we had requested that they fill it for us they didn't get it started we get it going
01:00:04
Jeff tried to get into the water. He came walking out and From his feet up his leg this far is red it was scalding hot and We've got we've got young children
01:00:21
But we had to we had to move the service we had to we had to we had to can't do it next week And that's why
01:00:26
I did a short sermon Was I want I didn't want us there till seven o 'clock at night. We've we start at four
01:00:32
That's a long time when you got little kids, you know and stuff like that So yeah, we had to move it to next week and that means
01:00:38
Jeff's preaching. So who knows who will get done But I literally used my phone
01:00:45
I Said it for 45. I did just like I did in debates. I said it for 45 minutes and I got done 45 minutes.
01:00:52
So we'll see what happens next week, but Yeah, we need to have a cold water and a hot water seal somewhere in between Would be would be good because we don't really need it in July.
01:01:05
We're good. Okay, but in any other, you know This time of year. It would be be pretty pretty nippy to do it that way
01:01:13
But all the trials and tribulations of churches that rent from other churches And that's our folks do a good job of it, but it's still it's still a real challenge.
01:01:24
So anyways, so Just wrapping stuff up next time. We will go through some of the biblical argumentation on those debates and Just reminder travel fund a omen org if you want to we did a bunch of Upgrading on the on the unit and that I'm really excited about.
01:01:44
Yes, sir I'm really excited about it You know stuff like the inverter and solar controller and that's stuff that I don't need to be telling you about But I'm gonna tell you one thing
01:01:59
I'm going to Louisiana on this trip and I now have shock absorbers and you might go don't all
01:02:04
RVs have shock absorbers No, they have Springs Big and and we have good heavy -duty
01:02:10
Springs on that unit. That's fine. But there are no shock absorbers and Our dear friends up in Dolores, Colorado, I won't get them into trouble by naming names, but We've got a fine couple up there at support the ministry and I've stayed with them up there and I'm gonna hopefully be staying with Them again this summer
01:02:35
Visited Apology a few weeks ago a month and a half ago and Said man, we put shock absorbers on our
01:02:40
RV and it's made all the difference in the world Because you'll remember in the Jayco if I put anything in no, no if I put anything in that back
01:02:51
Closet, you remember the first time I pulled it everything that was on a plastic hanger Snapped the plastic hanger heads off That's how much it's doing this number it just snapped the heads right off.
01:03:02
It's all it's in a pile in the bottom of the thing They said none of that happens anymore. So I'm like,
01:03:07
I'm going to Louisiana. I Need I need the shock absorbers and I asked
01:03:14
I asked the guys at the dealership Why isn't this standard and I said because most people don't use an
01:03:20
RV the way you're using an RV They take it someplace park it and they're there a long time. Then they come home. They park it for a long time
01:03:26
They're not using it to actually travel around the United States so for you
01:03:32
Good a good idea a good investment. So if you want to help us keep that rolling.
01:03:37
Yes, sir so I did want to mention that this morning we discovered something regarding our app and We had gotten a note
01:03:46
Sometime back somebody saying that they're not able to get the app and so we got to investigating and there's something wrong
01:03:54
Both in Google and in the Apple system where the app isn't Available, it's working.
01:04:01
No, but for new downloads and new It's not offering it.
01:04:06
And so we don't really know why but we're investigating that. So please be patient with us
01:04:12
We're hoping to have that corrected very soon and So if you follow the link to get the app on the website
01:04:20
In the worky, huh, so we're trying to figure out why and get that resolved. So I just wanted to mention that as well.
01:04:26
Huh? I Wonder what Layton's been up to recently Gotten into programming
01:04:36
I guess who knows. Well, um, let's see Alrighty, alright, thanks for watching the program today.