Guidance and Light: the New Testament or the Qur'an?

The Great Commission and the Universal Scope of the Gospel

I'll be with you this afternoon here in Sydney, I hope that you all are blessed by the conversations we will have this afternoon. A guide to humanity, the New Testament or the Koran. The New Testament teaches us in Matthew chapter 28 verses 18 through 20.

Jesus came up and spoke to them saying, all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.

And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Here at the end of the Gospel of Matthew, we have Jesus' own presentation of the scope of what his continuing ministry through the disciples is to be.

They are to go to all nations and they are to baptize, they are to instruct, they are to command people, teaching them to observe all that Jesus commanded them. You will notice that there are no limitations.

They are to go into all the world. There is no time limitation. This is to the end of the age. And so clearly the understanding that Jesus gives to his disciples is that the Gospel message is to go to all the world until he comes again.

It is for all peoples and all language groups. And so there is no limitation provided in the great commission that Christians have been following ever since then. Now, why is Christianity for all the world?

I'd like to present, given the very brief amount of time that we have, four points. The Savior of all men is the incarnate word, Jesus Christ. It is the person of Christ that indicates to us that this is a universal message, who he is.

Secondly, the need met by the Savior is one shared by all men. That is, their need is sin and the penalty of sin. Since all have sinned and he is the one that can deal with that issue of sin, then his message is for all the world.

Thirdly, Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecies God gave to his people of old. God had prophesied in the Old Testament scriptures that there would be one who would come and Jesus fulfills those prophecies.

And finally, number four, the resurrection then becomes the foundation of the universal call to believe in Christ. God demonstrates that the message of Jesus is the true message by raising him from the dead as he himself had said would come to pass.

And that then becomes the foundation upon which the Christian message is preached to all people. So, very briefly, these four points, where we get that and then some discussion therefrom. In Hebrews chapter one, the writer to the Hebrews said, God, after he spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days, has spoken to us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, whom also he made the world.

And he is the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature and holds all things by the word of his power. Here is one who has spoken from God, who is in fact the one who created. He is the one who can speak perfectly from the Father because he is the exact representation of his very nature, his very person.

He has been appointed heir of all things. How could there be another messenger that could eclipse the message of this one who is in fact the creator of all things? The one who has been appointed the heir of all things, who holds all things by the word of his power.

The very fact of this glorious person indicates that he is, in fact, the final word from God. As it is said, in the past, God spoke in these various portions. Now, he has spoken with finality in these last days in his Son.

This is likewise described for us when Paul writes to Colossians. In Colossians chapter one, we are told, for by him, this is by Jesus, all things are created, both in heavens and on earth, visible and invisible.

For thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Now, I don't know how more expansively the apostle Paul could have described the creator than to exhaust the Greek prepositions used in this text to indicate that Jesus is not merely a part of the creation.

He is not only the one who made creation. In fact, creation exists for him, through him, and in him all things find their consistency. They hold together in him. This is a description of the creator who then enters into his own creation, which, of course, is the message as well of the prologue of John.

Here, Jesus is described as the eternal Logos, the Word. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and apart from him, or aside from him, nothing came into being that has come into being.

In him was life, and the life was the light of men. So, here is a description of the eternal Logos, the one who in verse 14 of this chapter has said, to have become flesh. And who is he? John 1 tells us that he was eternal.

In the beginning was the Word. The Word was as a point to any time of origin, source, or beginning. As far back as you want to push the beginning, the Word already existed. The Word was with God. There was personal relationship between the Son and the Father in eternity past.

And the Word was God. The Word was as to his nature, deity. This is the description of Christ. And so, once again, once he gives his authority, his power, to the people of God to go into all the world, how can there be one who then would eclipse his message that would come after him when he himself is described in such exalted language here in all these documents written in the first century after the time of Christ.

And so, we have the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. That is one of the biggest issues between us, because clearly from the Islamic perspective, there can be no incarnation. The question we will have to ask today is, why?

Why is that? Why can God have the ability to create the universe, but then for his own purposes not enter into that universe to display his mercy, his love, and his grace? So, the first point, the incarnate Word.

Sin, the Curse of the Law, and the Need for a Perfect Savior

The second point, man's need. Why is the message of Christianity universal? Because all men, no matter where they are, share the same need. They experience sin and the penalty that exists for sin. In Revelation chapter 21, we read these words.

Speaking of the final consummation of all things, the heavenly Jerusalem. I saw no temple in it for the Lord God, the Almighty, and the Lamb are his temple. And the city has no need of the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. In the daytime, there will be no night there. Its gates will never be closed, and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nation and nations into it.

But then notice this. And nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Nothing unclean will enter into it.

So, how can there be anyone there if we all know our uncleanness? We all know our sin. We know in the light of a holy God that we have a great need. How, given the ultimate standard that nothing unclean is going to enter into the presence of God in eternity to come, how can we possibly enter into his presence?

We have a sin problem. Indeed, as the scriptures likewise tell us in Romans chapter 3, verses 10 through 18, as it is written, none is righteous. No, not one. No one understands. No one seeks for God.

All have turned aside. Together they have become worthless. No one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.

Their feet are swift to shed blood, and in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known. Finally, Paul adds it all up. There is no fear of God before their eyes. Here is his concluding testimony to the fact that mankind as a whole has gone astray.

Mankind is in rebellion against God, and can we not look into our news every single day? When we turn on the television, we look at the internet, do we not see evidence of all of these words given to us over and over and over again?

All mankind has fallen under the power of sin. Paul likewise said in Galatians chapter 3, verses 10 through 13,. For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, Cursed should be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to do them.

Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for the righteous shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith, for the one who does them shall live by them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.

Here again we have the perfect standard of God's law presented to us, and yet no one lives up to that standard, no one is able to give a perfect account of themselves. How then can anyone experience salvation?

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. We need someone who can bear the wrath of God in our place, and then can give us his righteousness, the righteousness by which we can stand before a holy God.

This was the message of the Old Testament prophets as well, and in fact much of what is focused upon in regards to the ministry of this suffering servant is in regards to this issue of sin. In the 53rd chapter of Isaiah we read,.

Surely our griefs he himself bore, and our sorrows he carried, yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities.

The chasing for our well-being fell upon him, and by his scourging we are healed. Words written 700 years before the time of Christ, well aware of the fact that our Jewish friends understand these to be fulfilled in other ways other than Christ.

But I would simply ask you to think about that entire 53rd chapter, who could have fulfilled all these things? Who in fact in the 12th verse of the same chapter could we read these words about? Therefore I will allot him a portion with the great, and he will divide the booty with the strong, because he bore out himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors, yet he himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.

He himself bore the sin of many. How can this be? Who can bear the sin of others if he himself is under the curse of the law? We need a perfect sin bearer who can then intercede for transgressors, and that of course is exactly what the Lord Jesus has done.

That is why the early church looked to so many of the Psalms, Psalm 22 for example. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? The words of Jesus from the cross, far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning, but I am a worm and not a man, a reproach of men and despised by the people, all who see me sneer at me.

They separate with the lip, they wag the head saying, commit yourself to the Lord, let him deliver him, let him rescue him because he delights in him, echoing the words of mockery that Jesus endured upon the cross.

The 14th verse we read, I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint, my heart is like wax, it is melted within me, my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my jaws, and you lay me in the dust of death.

Verse 16, dogs have surrounded me, a band of evildoers has encompassed me, they pierce my hands and my feet, I can count all my bones, they look, they stare at me, they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.

And yet the 22nd Psalm does not stop there, it concludes by saying, posterity will serve him, it will be told of the Lord to the coming generation, they will come and will declare his righteousness to a people who will be born that he has performed it.

The reason there is a Christian church this day, 2 ,000 years after the time of Christ, and long after these words were written, was because the Lord has fulfilled his promise. But time is so short. Finally, there is a universal command to believe and repent.

In Acts 13, 48, when Paul and the others were preaching in the synagogue, for the soul of the Lord has commanded us, I have placed you as a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the end of the earth.

Notice again, the universal aspect of the Christian message. When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing, glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as have been appointed to eternal life believe.

So here we have clear evidence that the apostles understood the message of Christ, not being just for the Jews. Jesus wasn't just a Jewish Messiah, the Messiah was God's anointed one for all the peoples.

I have appointed you as a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth. And that is why Christian missionaries to this day, give their lives to bring the gospel to people all around this planet.

To places that no one at the time of the writing of the New Testament could even imagine even existed. And yet that has been the Lord's will during this time. I think in Acts 17, you really get the clear proclamation on this subject.

Therefore, Paul said to the pagan philosophers on Mars Hill, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men, that all people everywhere should repent, because he has fixed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness out.

Through a man whom he has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising him from the dead. What is the grounds upon which God will judge all men? What is the grounds upon which the proclamation of the gospel is made?

He will judge the world in righteousness, through a man whom he has appointed, having furnished proof to all men, how? By raising him from the dead. Not only was the crucifixion of Jesus central to all the proclamation of the early Christians, but so too was his resurrection.

This was the most primitive Christian message. And as they went out outside the borders of Israel, as they went out into all the world, what did they proclaim? Even though they knew that men would mock, for after this, what do the Greeks do?

They mock, because Jesus talked about the resurrection. The Greeks didn't believe in the resurrection. They believed salvation was getting your spirit out of this body. So they mocked the idea of the resurrection.

But Paul does not stop. He does not avoid using a term he knew that they would mock. Instead, he gives the whole message, because it is on the basis. God has provided proof, furnished proof to all men, by raising Jesus from the dead.

Now the irony is that this afternoon we will have the opportunity, I imagine, of discussing the fact that at least as far as the idea that the Torah and the angel contain light and guidance is something the Quran itself teaches us.

In Surah Al-Maidah 5, Ayah 46. And in their footsteps we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the law that had come before him. We sent him the gospel. Therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the law that had come before him.

A guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. So notice, the Quran itself says, the gospel contains guidance and light, confirmation of the Torah that had come before him. And then we have this interesting statement in the very next ayah.

Let the people of the gospel, the al-alijjil, judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah hath revealed, they are no better than those who rebel. And so here we have a command to the people of the gospel, that would be me, that would have been people who lived in the days of Muhammad, to judge, let the people of the gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.

Therein what? In the gospel. So clearly, in the days of Muhammad, the people of the gospel had enough gospel to be able to judge. Judge what? Well, this whole section is about the prophethood of Muhammad, and the giving of the Quran.

And so, if that is the case, we know exactly what was possessed by the Christians at that time in history. We know what they possessed for many hundreds of years before that. And that continues to be the gospel which we possess to this day, given to us in the sacred scriptures.

And so it is something we'll have to discuss as to how we can understand that. So, in light of the question today, why is Christianity for all the world? I've given four points. The savior of all men is the incarnate word, Jesus Christ.

How can there be a message that would eclipse the message of one so glorious as he? The need met by the savior is one shared by all men anywhere in the world, and that is sin. And it is only through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecies God gave to his people of old. This was something that God had always intended to do. It had always been his intention to send this one who would provide perfect salvation as we saw in Isaiah and Psalm 22.

And finally, the resurrection becomes the foundation of the universal call of the belief in Christ. God has not left us without a witness. There was one who said that after three days I will rise again, and he did.

And his apostles then went out into the world and they faced persecution. They faced the greatest power on earth in that day, the might of the empire of Rome. And many tens of thousands of Christians died under the hand of Rome for their refusal to bow the knee to Caesar.

Christians say, Jesus kurios, in the original language, Jesus is Lord. The city, the nation of Rome said you are to say Kaiser kurios, Caesar is Lord. The Christians said Jesus is Lord. And they were willing to die for that because Jesus had died for them.

And God had then proven the truthfulness of that message by raising him from the dead. So is the New Testament a light and guidance for all the world? As long as Jesus is who Jesus said he was. As long as the scriptures testify that all men are under the power of sin, they need a true and living Savior.

As long as the Old Testament prophecies are fulfilled in him, and the resurrection is a reality, then the New Testament indeed is light and guidance unto the entirety of the world. That is our subject for today.

I thank you very much for being with us this afternoon, and I hope that you will listen carefully as both sides speak to this vitally important issue. Because from the Christian perspective, the Gospel remains valid to this very day.

Thank you very much.

Guidance, the Qur'an, and Modern Human Problems

So the question that I am going to attempt to answer today is, is the Quran actually a better guide for humanity than the New Testament? And in the brief, we were saying that what we want to consider are some modern problems, some problems that exist today.

Because what's the good of being a guidance if it's only relevant to, say, 7th century Arabs or 1st century Greek-speaking Jews or whatever? What's the point if it's only relevant to a very specific context and a very specific subset of humanity?

So I want to kind of contend with the issue, well, what is guidance? What is guidance? Can it be purely theological? Is guidance just something that's purely spiritual, purely related to the next life?

Or can guidance be worldly? Is it purely worldly? Does it have to be purely worldly? I'm going to put forward the assertion that, in fact, to be a true guidance to humanity, any scripture or any revelation from God must fill both gaps.

It's got to appeal not only to our soul, but also to our bodies and to our current reality. So very quickly, what is the Quran? Where did it come from? The Quran, for those of you that don't know, the Quran roughly translated means reading or recitation.

The Quran itself says that this divine book, let there be no doubt about it, is a guidance for all the God-conscious. And we have given this divine book to make every matter clear and to provide mercy and good news to all those that submit themselves to God.

In Muslim belief, God revealed the Quran to the Prophet Muhammad through the angel Gabriel over a period of about 20 years. And what are the other options? Well, if you don't believe that, you can only believe that either Muhammad wrote it or other Arabs wrote it because the Quran itself is written in Arabic, a very high form of Arabic.

And indeed, the definition of an Arab is actually one that understands and speaks the language. So I want to look at, well, what are some modern problems that perhaps the Quran shed lights on? And indeed, I'm not going to say that the Quran was specifically written to deal with these issues, to deal with these issues today in 2009.

I'm not going to say that. What I'm going to say instead is that we have problems today, we've got some information in the Quran, and those of you out there that are thinking, you know, should come up with your own conclusions.

See if you think that there's actually a correlation between the problems that we have today and some of the solutions or guidance offered in the Quran. So I'm going to look at increasing abortion rates.

I'm going to look at the obesity epidemic and fat diets. I'm going to very quickly touch on alcohol, drugs and gambling, and also the economic crisis and poverty. And so how I'm going to do that, but also an aspect of public health.

So how I'm going to do that is very quickly give you some fast facts. So if you can't keep up with the facts, don't feel discouraged. I've got the references down at the bottom here. And in terms of the United Kingdom, because it's a little bit ahead of Australia in terms of abortions, particularly with medically induced abortions, in 2008 there were roughly 200 ,000 abortions in the UK, over 195 ,000.

That corresponds to 18 .2 per 1 ,000 women in the population. And that's slightly down from 2007. But 2007 saw a big jump from 2006, 17 .1 to 18 .6 per 1 ,000. In 19-year-old women, 36 out of every 1 ,000 had an abortion in 2008.

Think about that relevance of students here at this university. How many 19-year-old women are there here? Almost 2 ,000 of them with medical reasons. So we've had 200 ,000 abortions and 2 ,000 of them with medical reasons.

For example, the child may have been handicapped when it was born. That's classified as a medical reason. New South Wales, it's a little bit different. And indeed, in Australia, it's a little bit different.

Abortion is still a criminal act in Queensland. But in New South Wales, it's a little bit different. We've got about 40 ,000 abortions. And the legal population in New South Wales is roughly 6 million.

And that's expected to increase as IU486, the abortion drug, becomes more readily available. It was approved in 2006. And slowly, it's going to become more available. And as I said, you can look at those references for those facts there.

One of the key issues is that most abortions are done by those from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Very important to consider, because what does the Quran say? Do not kill your children for fear of poverty.

It is we who shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily, killing them is a great sin. And do not kill your children because of poverty. It is we who shall provide sustenance for you as well as for them.

Now, some people might look at this and think, well, why is this saying basically the same thing in a slightly different way? If you look at the first quote that I've got there, it's saying, do not kill your children for fear of poverty.

So, what that's saying is that the couple is not currently poor. But they're afraid that if they have a child, they will be poor. So the Quran says, we'll provide for the child as well as for you. Because their main concern is provision for the child.

In the second one, they're already poor. So their main concern is themselves. And the Quran says, first we'll provide for you and then for the child. Moreover, the Quranic economic system facilitates the provision for these poor people, particularly through taxation, a cat and so on.

How does it happen in the first place? Well, one day a sloth visits mummy down by a cabbage patch. No, that's not what happens. Obviously, we need to also have provisions to prevent this from happening in the first place.

Now, it would be all well and good if the Quran, for example, said, don't have illegal sexual intercourse or sexual intercourse outside of marriage. And it does say that. But it also takes it a step further and says, tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be mindful of their chastity.

This will be most conducive to their purity. Verily, God is aware of all that they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be mindful of their chastity. And do not display their charms in public beyond what may be decently apparent thereof.

Hence, let them draw their head coverings over their bosoms. So, first of all, the Quran is putting the responsibility on both men and women to lower their gaze, to not be lustful. Both men and women, not just one or the other.

And on top of that, you know, because we're often labelled as being illogical or having headscarves and perhaps skinny jeans or miniskirts or whatever. The Quran says, if you really must, forget your headscarves and cover other things that people are going to find more attractive.

Think about that. Obesity, epidemic and fat diets. Well, it's expected that the current trend in obesity will remove most of the health gains made in the 20th century. So we'll go back to having life expectancies of somewhere around 50 or less.

And, you know, all sorts of other related diseases. About 60 of Australians are obese. And major causes of obesity, basically, are overeating and a sedentary lifestyle. So eating too much and not doing much exercise.

There are other causes, but they're the major ones. Fat diets can be effective in the short term in terms of reducing weight, but generally are ineffective and harmful. Loss of essential nutrients has negative effects on health status.

And, you know, just something as simple as iron and folate can mean that a child is born with significant deficiencies. And those can mean that a child is born with significant disabilities. The best diet is a balanced diet with appropriate replacements for those with intolerances.

So if someone can't have gluten because they have celiac disease, we'll give them rice bread instead so they're getting a decent amount of carbohydrates. It's very important to have a balanced diet. And, again, there's a reference down there.

And, obviously, obesity is a serious chronic condition. It's not a joke. It leads on to other conditions like heart disease and diabetes. What does the Quran say? O children of Adam, beautify yourselves for every act of worship.

And eat and drink, but do not be excessive. Verily, he does not love the excessive. Note there that it's not just an instruction to the believers. It's an instruction to humanity. O children of Adam. And the Quran differentiates in this instance and in others.

The Quran also promotes a balanced diet. For it is he who is brought into being gardens, both cultivated ones and those grown wild, and a date palm and fields bearing multiformed produce and the olive tree and the pomegranate, all resembling one another and yet so different.

Eat of their fruit when it comes to fruition and give unto the poor their due on harvest day and do not be wasteful. Verily, he does not love the wasteful. Again, there's that emphasis. Don't be excessive.

Don't be wasteful. But here it's saying, eat this, eat that. Eat everything. Not absolutely everything, but make sure you're eating a variety of things. Even though they may seem similar, eat them all.

And all kinds of cattle have been made lawful to you. So, again, it's speaking about eating meat as well. A balanced diet. Alcohol, drugs and gambling. Well, the recent National Health and Medical Research Council guidelines, and this is from 2009, May 2009, state that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

One standard drink per day can increase the risk of some cancers by 70%. The beneficial health effects of alcohol, i .e. on the cardiovascular system, are small compared to the negative effects, i .e. the associated risk of cancer and other illnesses.

Despite this, alcohol costs the Australian community. 3 ,100 people die every year as a direct result of excessive drinking. 72 ,000 people are hospitalised every year as a result of excessive drinking.

And social problems related to excessive drinking alone cost $7 .6 billion annually. Sadly, as I said, these figures only relate to excessive drinking. 38 .1 of Australians over 14 years have used an illicit drug.

And again, these are the references at the bottom. What about gambling? Well, player losses in 2005, because that's the most updated Census figure we have, was $16 .9 billion in Australia. $16 .9 billion.

33 of gambling profits, that's that figure up there, $16 .9 billion, come from problem gamblers. Yet only 2 of Australians are problem gamblers. So 33 of that $16 .9 billion is coming from 2 of the population.

On average, 3 of a household's disposable income, so that's the income left after you've paid for all essential items, is spent on gambling. But again, think about that relative to the small amount of problem gamblers.

Think about just how much money is being spent in the home of a problem gambler on gambling. Spouses and children are seriously affected, suffering stress, anxiety, depression, family breakdown and more.

Problem gambling amongst underage gamblers is growing significantly in Australia, yet governments in Australia are dependent upon gambling revenue. In fact, the NSW State Government lives off $5 billion every year of poker machine revenue.

What does God tell us about it? They will ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say, in both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man, but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring.

So it's all well and good to say the government gets roughly $5 billion a year to build roads and build schools and all that sort of thing. What about the 2 of people that are losing their family, losing their homes, losing their livelihood?

By means of intoxicants and games of chance, Satan seeks only to sow enmity and hatred among you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of God and from prayer. Will you not then desist? Those of you who have attained faith, do not attempt to pray while you are under the influence of an intoxicant.

And it's important to demonstrate here that the two words used for intoxicant, one is khamah, which basically means wine, it's relating directly to alcohol. The later one, sukara, is referring to any mind-altering substance.

Sometimes people say this isn't a direct prohibition, but you can't pray while you're under the influence of a mind-altering substance. Well, what mind-altering substance are you going to be able to take in between prayer times?

For those of you that don't know, we pray pretty regularly, and I don't have too many illicit drugs I'd be able to take without missing a prayer, so, you know, it's serious. He is, beforehand, giving us some advice.

What about the economic crisis and poverty? Since 2007, the start of the economic crisis to now, there's been some major, major effects on even Australian families, and we're relatively removed from it.

I'd hate to imagine the situation in some parts of the US. Essentially, the economic crisis was caused by excessive credit provision and push for material wealth. Basically, pretend money is pushing up the value of material things, and then it all falls down like a stack of cards.

This resulted in companies cutting back on jobs. 500 jobs per day have been lost in New South Wales since the financial crisis began. 500 per day. Homelessness as a result. Homelessness in families in Australia has increased by 17 since the global financial crisis.

17 in families. I'm not talking about people with mental disorders that, you know, God protect them living out of their way. This is families, people with mortgages, people with children. Going from working with a mortgage to jobless and homeless is happening very quickly.

Again, I've got references at the bottom for those of you who want to check this out. And this is, as I said, working families in a country where there are social welfare provisions. Okay, so if you're absolutely in need, you can go down to Centrelink and get payments relatively easily in comparison to, say, the US.

Imagine what's happening in the US where they're being hit harder by the crisis, and the social provision is less. What does the Quran say? This is why. Because interest itself removes money from the economy.

See, if I can get a guaranteed, say, 7 return on interest by, you know, investing my money in a bank and then having to put out to a loan, why would I ever invest in a business? Why would I ever help someone that's, you know, got a business idea?

I wouldn't. I can get an interest return straight away. So that whole interest system actually takes money out of the economy and floods the economy with pretend wealth, pretend money, which eventually all sucks in on itself like a black hole.

Also, give all you can in charity to the poor, and they will ask thee as to what they should spend in God's cause. Say, whatever you can spare. So take what you need and give what you can. In this way, God makes clear unto you his messages so that you may reflect.