April 14, 2026 Show with Ronald L. Kohl on “Our Ancient Foe: Satan’s History, Activity & Ultimate Demise”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 14th day of April, 2026.

For the next two days, today and tomorrow, we are going to have two different guests addressing

Satan and the demonic realm, and I think that this, sadly, is a topic that has been neglected and overlooked and downplayed in its importance by people from my own background, the theologically

Reformed, but thankfully there are Reformed folk who have studied this issue in depth and have provided the body of Christ with very valuable information regarding this biblical subject.

Tomorrow, we have joining us Dr. Keith Evans, who is on the faculty at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina.

He is a biblical counselor, and he wrote his doctoral dissertation on the demonic realm, and we will have him joining us tomorrow.

And he's also going to be doing a Reformed analysis of some of the

Roman Catholic exorcists that have begun to appear on podcasts every day, and the major ones as well, like Tucker Carlson's program and others, and so it should be a very informative program.

But today, we have an old friend of mine who's been on the program before. We have

Ronald L. Cole, who is Senior Pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, a church that I have visited on many occasions for their

Quakertown Conference on Reformed Theology. And I think the last time

I was there, I had the opportunity to see one final time on this side of glory,

Dr. Harry Rear, who not long after that perished in an automobile accident and went into the immediate presence of our

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ. But today, Ron is going to be discussing his book that he edited,

Our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Ronald L.

Cole. Good to be with you, Chris. Just mentioning Harry Rear's name brings back such fond memories.

The last time he was with us—and he was with us, I think, three different times— he was one of the speakers along with Jason Halopoulos, who was one of his mentors.

And Jason just looked at an opportunity to serve with Harry. And Harry was very committed to the work of the

Alliance, confessing even evangelicals. And so we're a small conference in a medium -sized town, and Harry just loved to be with us.

He was a dear brother. Yes, and he was kind enough to sacrifice time out of his busy schedule to be on my show on a couple of occasions.

And one time, he actually contacted me requesting that he come on.

And he wrote a glowing commendation for my show, which

I will cherish forever. But why don't you tell our listeners more about Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

We are one of about 65 to 70 Bible fellowship churches in Quakertown. And I always say, yes, there are real

Quakers in Quakertown. The Society of Friends is still there. We're part of a denomination, the

Bible Fellowship Church, that dates back to over 150 years ago when a group of six young men,

German -speaking, in the Zionsville area of Pennsylvania broke away from their Mennonite bishops around the subject of wanting to hold a prayer meeting.

And when the bishops put the kibosh on it, they broke away and formed something in German called the

Evangelical Mennonite Society, which eventually grew up to be the

Bible Fellowship Church, although we went through many different forms and iterations until about 1960, when some of our men went away to seminary and discovered

Reformed theology. So we were not particularly good Mennonites even at that time. But it was time to make the break, and we are, as far as I know,

Chris, the only denomination that actually went from an original Arminian position on soteriology to a classic

Calvinist Reformed position. Yes, I knew everything you said about your history, except that the initial cause of the breakaway was because of the refusal of the

Mennonites to have prayer meeting. That's bizarre. Well, I wasn't—despite how

I look, I wasn't around for that particular meeting. But I understand it was really more of a case that the bishops wanted to have some authority and control over what they prayed about.

And these young men, all German -speaking, our forebears, our first pastors were— the original, you know, most of our churches in Quakertown was one of the first.

We always argue with our church in Zionsville that they had the first congregation, we had the first building. But originally, pretty much all the churches, all the pastors were lay preachers who preached in German, and eventually we gradually—German and English.

Now you won't find a Pennsylvania German sermon in any of our churches.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, go to quakertownbfc .org.

That's quakertownbfc, for biblefellowshipchurch .org. And God willing, we'll be repeating that later on in the program.

Well, would you agree, Ron, with my assessment that this subject of Satan and the demonic realm is something that Reformed folk, both theologians and even pastors, tend to shy away from it?

They don't seem to want to give much deep study to it.

I think sometimes Reformed folks are worried that they're going to appear like they are charismatic and Pentecostal.

They know that the topic has been sensationalized and so forth.

That's just my presumption, but you have any thoughts on that? Yes, and I will say up front that I am no expert on Satan and demonology, but I think that one of the matters that we in the

Reformed community, we're modern. We're post -modern. That's for a previous time.

Martin Luther might have dealt with so many of those things, but no, we've left that behind. It's not a major concern, and yet the devil,

C .S. Lewis, said something along the lines of, if you've ever read his book on script tape, he said that's the way the devils prefer it.

They prefer that we ignore them, and yet they are very real, and I have traveled to some places in the world where I especially felt a demonic presence.

And Chris, I will tell you, it's one of the eeriest, most frightening things I've ever experienced. The Bible clearly says the devil prowls around like a roaring lion.

You ignore a roaring lion at your peril. And could you explain in more detail, if it's possible, what it was like to come to the conclusion that you were feeling the presence of the demonic realm?

The word I would use, Chris, and I felt it in—I was on a mission trip to Tanzania in 2007.

The word I would use would be oppression. There was a heaviness in one of the villages we went to, and I had not felt it elsewhere.

In 2007, we had a missionary who was serving there in medical missions. We went to dedicate a medical clinic, and we traveled around among the people group known as the

Sandawi people. Our church at Cedar Crest in Allentown had found this people group, and they had several people on the field, and by the time we got there, where there had been no gospel witness, there were now seven churches, which has more than doubled since then.

But we went to one village, and from the moment I got there until the moment I left, I felt a heaviness

I don't think I had ever felt before. And how else would I attribute that?

Because in that part of Tanzania, there were witch doctors operating. There was very much a mixture, even among those who were understanding

Christ. There was an animism, an animistic spirit there that I felt, and it's such an intangible.

How would I describe it? But I know what I felt, and I have felt it on one or two other occasions since then.

Do you think that's because of some kind of built -in alarm system, for lack of a better term, that the

Holy Spirit, when someone is born again, that there's something within us that God has given us that makes us aware that this dark realm is around us?

I agree wholeheartedly, and indeed, though, that should prompt us to not want to ignore teachings on Satan and his demons in our pulpits, and yet we do too often shy away.

Now, I think, Chris, one of the benefits of expository preaching is you're going through whole books of the

Bible sequentially, that when you get to passages, you don't skip over them, or you don't belittle them or take a light approach to them.

You actually have to deal with them. So, yes, the presence of the Holy Spirit in the believer should more than convince us of the reality of the spiritual warfare that we are engaged in.

I am preaching through Galatians, and here we are in Galatians 5 talking about the desires of the flesh, the sinful nature, and the spirit, and it clearly says we are at war.

Galatians 5, 17, and the desires of the flesh are against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh, but these are opposed to each other.

And so we cannot ignore, we ignore to our peril. Amen. Did this book that we are addressing today,

Our Ancient Foe, and the subtitle is

Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, did this not come about as a transcript, perhaps, of one of the

Philadelphia Conferences on Reformed Theology? It does.

I know it's been mentioned and publicized, even as this is the work of the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology, but it really began as one of the themes for the

Quaker Town Conference. Oh, okay. I am the chairman, going to be in our 19th year this year, and one of my responsibilities as the chair of what we call

QCRT is to develop themes. And we work very closely with this organization,

Ministry of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, that was started by the late James Montgomery Boyce to bring the

Evangelical Church back to Reformation. But the Alliance people, wonderful people to work with, leave to me the subject material, the thematics, and then the individual sessions.

And I look back through all the years of the Philadelphia Conference, which is the longest -running, continuous

Reformed Theology Conference, I believe, anywhere in the world, but they had never done anything on this subject.

And so it was the germination of an idea, well, why would we ignore such an important subject, theologically and personally?

So I'm also responsible for the speakers, and by God's grace, men like Ken Hughes and Tom Nettles and Peter Jones agreed to come and speak on that particular subject.

And Chris, I will tell you, is one of our best -attended conferences because of the uniqueness of the subject material.

But that was the foundation, the genesis of the idea for a book, because after the conference took place,

I cannot remember particularly, and the QCRT that dealt with it, in fact, it was called

For Still Our Ancient Foe, based on Martin Luther, him, of course, I cannot remember precisely.

That was back in 2017. The book came out in 2018, so we're talking a while ago.

I can't remember who it was, whether it was either the Alliance or PNR Publishing that said, why don't you turn this into a book?

So I had the foundation because I had two chapters, each two plenary messages from both

Ken Hughes and Tom Nettles, and that was, in a sense, the skeleton of the book.

And then what I did was I looked around at all the many

PCRT messages over the years and said, are there messages, even though they haven't done a whole conference on this theme, are there messages that would be appropriate for such a book as I'm putting it together in a sequential sort of way?

And I found messages by Derek Thomas, Roger McCall, Joel Beeke, and Sinclair Ferguson.

So that doubled us from four chapters to eight, and I still felt there was one gap, and it was the subject of what's

Satan's methodology? And I asked, because my background is in journalism, as well as having been the pastor here for about 22 years,

I asked if I could write that chapter, and they allowed me to do that. And so that was the chapter three, I believe, which is malevolent methodology.

And so nine chapters, and we had ourselves a book. It was based on the transcript.

Let me just let our listeners know the chapters and authors of those chapters from this book, which is published by P &R

Publishing. And every one of these men I'm about to list have been on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, with the exception of the late

Roger McCall and Sinclair Ferguson, who I've been trying to get on this program for decades.

And the last time I saw Sinclair at a

Bible conference, I approached him and said, Dr. Ferguson, I don't know if you remember me.

This is Chris Arnzen. I host Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I have been so enormously blessed by you and your ministry since the 1980s, when

I was a new believer. And I would love it if you would come on my program.

I've been trying to get you on the program for as long as I've had one, since it launched in 2005.

I keep hitting a brick wall. Will you please come on the program? And his answer to me was, but I loathe that sort of thing.

So, so far, I haven't been successful. But the authors of this book, our ancient foe, include

R. Kent Hughes, who wrote a chapter titled Satan in the Garden.

My friend, Dr. Thomas J. Nettles, Knowing Satan. My guest today,

Ronald L. Cole, Malevolent Methodology. Dr.

Derek W. H. Thomas, who I've had on the broadcast as well, The Word, the

Flesh, and the Devil. The aforementioned Roger Nicole wrote a chapter,

Conflict with Evil. Another one by R. Kent Hughes, Deliverance from the

Evil One. My friend, Dr. Joel R. Beeke, wrote a chapter,

Preserving in Satan's Sleeve.

And another one by Dr. Thomas J. Nettles, The Final Demise. And the aforementioned

Dr. Sinclair Ferguson, All Things New. So that is quite a lineup of great men of God to write chapters for this book, which were actually transcripts of messages.

I would like to give our email address out to our listeners in the event that they would like to join us with questions of their own.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Well, I think it'd be wise to start as the order of your subtitle,

Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, that we start with Satan's history.

For the first time in my life, I've encountered theologians who do not believe that Satan and Lucifer are the same being.

I don't know where you fall on that. But who is Satan, and how did he become

Satan? Well, again,

I will not profess to be an expert on this, but Kent Hughes just takes us right to the garden.

And his chapter obviously stresses the fact that Satan and Lucifer are the same person.

But he noted how Satan immediately worked on Adam and Eve. And Kent Hughes is a marvelous speaker, but he also is an excellent writer.

And in terms of working on the manuscripts for these pages, let's just say that was one of the easiest ones to deal with.

Chris, I almost want to go back. I appreciate your struggles with Sinclair Ferguson. I'm responsible for getting speakers, and I do not easily give up.

But everything I've heard about Sinclair, and I appreciate your Scottish brogue. You said

Sinclair has a brogue all his own that's very deliberate. But he just would never answer me.

And what I've heard from folks at the Alliance, they said basically just doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

So, Chris, you're in good company. But, yes, the chapter really starts right at the beginning where Scripture begins with Genesis 3 and the fall and the ways that Satan twisted and gave half -truths.

And Adam and Eve, for lack of a better term, bit. I'm sorry.

Was there a reason you stopped there? Well, that was a bad play on words.

Okay. They bit literally. They bit literally. Yes, that's right. I'll even quote a little bit of what he said, what

Ken Hughes wrote. And here I'll also further tell you, one of the challenges of editing a book is tracking down footnotes, tracking down sources for quotes.

And I will say that several of the writers were kind enough to help me out with that, with the exception of Roger McCall because he'd been promoted to glory.

Obviously, I had to track down his footnotes on his own. But here's Ken Hughes quoting from Paradise Lost.

But I'll read you a little bit of his methodology. This is page 10 and 11 of the book.

What Satan had told them was true, half -true. They did not die that day.

In fact, Adam lived 930 years. Yet Adam and Eve did die. Their constant communion with God died.

Their eyes were grotesquely opened as they received the knowledge that they sought.

They saw evil. They saw themselves as naked so that they desperately sought to cover themselves.

Their innocence was no more. One of Ken Hughes' – he is definitely an artist with words, but he really clearly presents the biblical picture.

And as far as the story that many of us have heard, even unbelievers very often have a relative idea of the story that Lucifer was the most beautiful of all the angels and his pride led him to rebel against God, being envious of God's exalted position over him.

And after a battle ensued in heaven, he was cast down to earth with a third of the angels.

Can you give us any further detail on that? Well, it's interesting,

Chris, because this is where you have to go to the value and benefit of the understanding of the

Church throughout history, because a lot of the teachings of Satan as Lucifer, as the sun of the morning star, are things that we piece together from passages in Isaiah and elsewhere.

And initially, if you just read them on surface value, you begin to wonder, is this really about Satan?

Are we talking about a human figure? And yet the witness of history has really confirmed throughout history that this is who that represents.

And yes, the story that you're told in broadest form is absolutely true, that he wanted to ascend, that pride was his fault, and he was cast out and took myriads of angels with him.

And that is an ongoing war, although I love the fact, and as loosely as I can say,

I've read the end of the book and we win, there is a final battle coming. But between now, between the guard and Adam and Eve being cast out and that final victory, we are still engaged in war.

And we have to go to our first commercial break, folks. And once again, if you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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Our guest today is Ronald L. Cole, who is Senior Pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, and we are addressing the theme of a book for which he was the editor for PNR Publishing, and that book is

Our Ancient Foe. Anybody who knows the lyrics to that wonderful hymn,

A Mighty Fortress, will remember hearing Luther describing Satan in that way, and one of the best lines in that hymn are,

For lo, his doom is sure. But we are discussing

Our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise. And if you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. And I understand that sometimes with subject matter like Satan and the demonic, people may want to remain anonymous because it involves some horrible experience that they had or are continuing to have, or perhaps it's something related to a loved one in that matter.

Well, we will obviously accept your request to remain anonymous and therefore will not divulge your identity, and you don't even have to provide it in that case.

But if it's a general question, please just give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence.

We have a very good question from R .J. in White Plains, New York. Pastor Ron, R .J.

says, I think that it is unfortunate that very often people have a concept of the battle between good and evil as if God and Satan are almost on equal terms as foes and that God has any kind of a struggle in defeating

Satan. But isn't it true that, as the book of Job reveals, that Satan cannot do a single solitary thing without permission from God?

That is absolutely true, Chris. That is absolutely true, and you find it right in the beginning of this dramatic presentation of Satan coming into God's presence.

But he only acts when God allows him to do so. And the question that the questioner asks is very true.

I'm looking at a quote from someone I really respect, and when talking about the battle between the flesh and the spirit, he describes them like two giant sumo wrestlers trying to push each other out of the ring.

I love the imagery of it, but the simple fact is that greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world.

It is not an even struggle. There is not any question, according to Scripture, about who is going to emerge victorious.

And Satan only acts and only is given an entry point by God's belief.

We know who's victorious. We know who is sovereign, and Satan is not. And that's why we have to go back, in a sense, to the

Scripture, to how everything is revealed in Scripture, including the enemy of our souls.

I'm going to quote Tom Nettles from the book. He says, we think that we are doing

God a favor. We think we are defending the character of God by denying a plain revelation. When our rationality begins to operate independently of divine revelation, when it opposes the clearly revealed propositions of Scripture, we have fallen into the error of the first opponent of God's infinite wisdom, who is

Satan. So sadly, pop culture, movies like The Exorcist, and it seems like every other month there is a new movie that comes out with some satanic aspect to it, we begin to elevate

Satan's power that the Bible never presents. He is powerful, but the devil will flee from you.

If that's us, what about Jesus? What about the Father? What about the

Spirit? They're infinitely more powerful than he is. Amen for that.

Yes, and I happen to be from Amityville, Long Island.

Yes, so you know what we're talking about, Chris. Yes. The Amityville Horror, many years ago.

Yes, and that was based—well, what led to the story,

I should say, was that Ronald DeFeo, the oldest of,

I believe, six siblings, he murdered his parents and all of his siblings.

And the reason it became later a ghost story is that apparently

Ronald DeFeo's lawyer told him to make up a story about how demons told him to do this.

He later admitted this, and he came up later with an excuse that I don't have time to discuss right now.

Now, no doubt there was demonic influence in something like this. It is believed that since he was a drug addict and wanted to receive the soul inheritance of those murders, after those murders, from his parents, that that was the motivation, so that he could be the sole heir and have money to fuel his drug habit.

But Satan, no doubt, had some role in this. It's such a horrific crime.

There has been some pushback from Reformed folk about the demonic activity involved in heinous crimes, in that we believe, very strongly so, that man in his nature before his regeneration is totally depraved.

But it seems to me, and you could correct me if you disagree, it seems to me that even though we are totally depraved, sometimes to commit an act so heinous as even the betrayal of Jesus Christ, it seems that Satan needed to give

Judas even a push, because Satan entered him before the final betrayal.

So, do you have any comments about that? I will only go as far as Scripture goes.

Scripture does say that Satan… I'm sorry, folks,

Ron is frozen right now. Hopefully this will… You know, it's always interesting,

Chris. I find that Satan does work on specific individuals, and we must talk about how this is major.

This is the crucifixion of our Savior and redemption.

But I personally, myself, I'm not that important. Right. That Judas was important to Satan's purported plan, which was carried out but without omniscience, and what he thought was his victory was his great defeat.

But yes, we can only go where Scripture goes, and absolutely that Satan did enter into Judas would already become progressively disillusioned that Jesus' ministry was not turning in the direction he wanted.

And that's where he took him. Okay. And why don't you go into, before we go to any more listener questions,

I'd like you to go into the chapter that you wrote, Malevolent Methodology.

Tell us about that. As a lover of history,

I began with an example of how if we are not aware, if we are careless, we can very easily get sucked in and deceived.

I used the example of a lover of American history. There was a civil war.

Yes, for civil war. He was, he had a group of people who had such audacity that he thought with a few dozen he could defeat the entire

Sioux Nation. And with 80 men, he didn't recognize the typical

Native American ruse, which was to bring a few horsemen out and run away.

And so he took his 80 men and followed them, raced after them. Now, and suddenly he was surrounded and the battle was over a few minutes and all 80 of them died.

If you don't begin to recognize Satan's methods, you are going to fall prey.

Here's the C .S. Lewis quote, which is pretty familiar. There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils.

One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them.

They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.

So I really focused in that chapter on seeing Satan as a liar. But he is a very good liar in the sense that, you know, some liars, like a parent with a child who says, you know,

I didn't do it, and yet they are sitting there with chocolate on their face and in their hands, you know they did. That's not an easy lie to fall prey, but he makes the lies sound so attractive.

And usually, as was the case in the garden, there was an element of half -truth to the lies.

So the best liar is one who looks like he's telling the truth, and Satan does that, and he's also a deceiver.

Again, to go to the garden, you know, he twists slightly to get even.

Then Adam, and it always impresses me that Adam was right there by her side. Did God really say this?

Did God really say he would do this? And it's a slight deception, but Verne Poythress, a professor at Westminster, says

Satan uses deceit as his main weapon, and he does. And to be honest, if we're not planted in the

Scriptures, we are always going to be gullible. Yes, and you reminded me of a conversation

I had many years ago during a break at one of my many theologically -reformed

Protestant versus Roman Catholic debates that I have orchestrated over the years, primarily featuring, as the

Protestant representative, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, debating

Roman Catholic apologists. And during the break, a friend of mine who

I really love and respect, but he is a devout

Roman Catholic, which is, I believe, a church with a dangerous and false gospel and a church that promotes and participates in idolatry and necromancy.

But the reason why what you just said reminded me of this conversation with this friend, this

Catholic friend, is that he said, well, you know why I became convinced that the Catholic Church was a true church?

And I said, why? And he said, because of the apparitions of Mary, especially of Fatima.

And I said, why would you base your faith on that? That could be a satanic delusion.

It could be a false apparition straight from hell.

And my friend said, oh, no. The visions of Mary, the appearances of Mary always involve

Mary telling people to follow her son, Jesus Christ, and Satan would never do that. And I think that what you just said is an example because Satan was a champion at telling partial truths.

Yes. And I focused really on his constant work.

His ongoing work is that as the tempter. So you combine partial truths with, and he makes them sound really enticing.

I wrote, Satan pairs desirable bait with an enticing sales pitch, and so our vigilance must be constant.

I said something along the lines of, you know, it'd be really easy if broccoli eating were a sin.

He could tempt us all day long to no avail. Which in parenthesis, I said, unless of course you're gaga about broccoli, then you've got other problems.

He tempts us with simple pleasures that really are pleasurable.

He says things like, indulge yourselves. You deserve some enjoyment with the sins of the flesh.

Or don't worry, you're in control. You can stop at any time. Or you rationalize, this doesn't hurt anyone.

And it feels good. But the simple fact is Satan always works both sides, excuse me, of the road that he entices and presents us, and everybody does it.

It's not a problem. And then he accuses us once we've fallen. And I have found that sadly to be true in my life.

On many occasions, I always tell my congregation that I'm not a practicing sinner. I don't have to practice.

I'm really good at it. And I'm so thankful for the grace of God because Satan is very effective.

And he has accused me and at times wins, but he's not going to be victorious.

And part of this is, you know, people lack assurance about their salvation. Well, if I still do these things, am

I really safe? And yet the fact of the battle and the presence of the battle that we're still fighting and the spirit is still convicting us is evidence that he is at work, that we belong to him, and so keep fighting.

Amen. Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell RJ in White Plains, New York, that you have won a free copy of the book

Our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, edited by my guest today,

Pastor Ronald L. Cole. And this is compliments of PNR Publishing, originally standing for Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing.

So please give us your full mailing address, RJ, in White Plains, New York, so that this book can be shipped out to you.

We have Dwight in Danbury, Connecticut, and Dwight says, in Revelation 20, starting in verse 1, we read,

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss, and a great chain in his hand.

And he took hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years were completed.

After these things, he must be released for a short time. I know that the interpretation of this would differ according to someone's eschatology, but I was just curious how you exegete these passages.

This is interesting, Chris, because it is a matter of present consideration in the

Bible Fellowship Church. We always want to be semper reformanda, according to the Scripture. The Scripture has many different interpretations.

I'm just going to state where we are, but we are at the point of studying whether we can extend some liberty to men who hold a different position than our classic premillennial position.

So as premillennials, we look at this, and we understand it literally, but we have such great respect for our

Presbyterian and other brothers who hold a nonmillennial position. So I don't know if I'm going to be able to answer the question.

All I will say is, in matters of these, I hold loosely, and I want to exercise great charity, that we believe as premillennials that we should understand this literally.

The word millennium is here, but we also understand that there's an awful lot of symbolism in the book of Revelation, and we need to be respectful of that.

So, okay, I'm a former sports writer. This is what is called a punt.

I'm using a football analogy, and I would actually ask, you have another guest tomorrow?

Throw that one at him! Well, just to give you one comment that I have heard our millennialists say is that Satan has been chained ever since the cross and Christ's fully accomplishing the redemption of his people, and that when it refers to the nations not being deceived, you see in the

New Testament, although there were Gentile proselytes in the old covenant, this was a much greater and an opening of the gospel of far greater magnitude where the nations were now receiving the gospel and the

Gentiles were coming to Christ in great numbers, and that's what that is referring to.

Do you have any comment on that and whether that is a plausible understanding, in your opinion?

It is plausible, as our millennialists understand it, and I want to approach this with all humility because I will never consider myself an eschatological expert.

Where I'd struggle personally is the binding of Satan. He's been bound.

I find myself having trouble seeing examples of his being bound because the world we live in, in my mind, and I hold loosely, but in my mind, it is not a world that is getting better that gives evidence of Satan being bound.

But again, I'm going to hold loosely. I'm going to hold loosely, and this is a case where, okay,

I'm going to go back to wearing my chairmanship hat of QCRT I would say two -thirds of the speakers that we invite are my

Presbyterian brothers, but there are two subjects that I'm never going to have as a theme for QCRT, and one of them is eschatology because it is a matter for divisiveness and disagreement.

The other one, you can probably guess, will be the sacraments or ordinances, but that still leaves a very wide area of many subjects we can talk about.

Yes, and I think, and I could be wrong, but I think that you're the only historic premillennialist in the whole list of the authors of the chapters of this book.

Am I right on that? You are probably correct, although I always say that when it comes to eschatology, not all

Reformed pastors and theologians, it's not a monolithic belief. James Montgomery Boyce was,

I believe, a premillennialist. Obviously, John MacArthur was a dispensationalist, if I'm understanding correctly.

And, you know, I take this approach. You know, when we get to glory, some of us, when it comes to eschatology, are going to find out we were right, and some of us will find out we were wrong, and none of us are going to care as we're going to be in glory.

And by the way, Dwight, you have won a free copy as well of our ancient foe,

Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, Compliments of PNR Publishing. Please make sure that you give us your full mailing address in Danbury, Connecticut.

We have Hank in Searcy, Arkansas.

And Hank says, What is

Satan capable of doing in the physical realm as far as false miracles are concerned?

Tell Hank he asked a very good question. He does exercise considerable power, only as far as God allows him to do so, but he has destroyed lives to many extent.

Now, whether he's by approximate or direct or secondary action, he has caused many people to make shipwreck with their lives.

But then again, it's only God is sovereign. That's the best I can do.

Do you think that Satan and demons can appear as humans and appear as animals and things like that, wreak havoc with what we are seeing, even as Christians?

Let me even give you an example. I was surprised when my friend,

Dr. Jason Lyle, was on my show, who I have nothing but the highest regard and respect.

And as I've said before, I am a bag of dirt next to him as far as my intellect.

So it seems weird that I would even attempt to critique in any way, shape, or form something that he said about what

I'm about to address. When some Christians have posed a theory that the

UFOs that have been seen that are defying physiology and so on, that are demonstrating capabilities that no human aircraft ever invented have been able to perform, and when it has been posed by some

Christians that this is demonic apparitions or something to the effect,

Jason Lyle, while totally and adamantly opposing the idea that they are crafts of alien beings from another galaxy, he doesn't believe that they're demonic because we can't film and photograph demonic apparitions.

And I remember thinking, how does he know that? I mean,

I know that he is likely getting that conclusion because Satan and demons are spirits, but at the same time,

I don't know what kind of tricks they can play even on a camera, but if you could, do you have any ideas or thoughts on that?

Just as you're relating to that, Chris, Satan's work being a great work of deception is often deception that leads to idolatry, and even in the case of UFOs and other extraterrestrial things, that has become a present -day idolatry, which obviously

Satan is the opponent of God, he's going to do anything possible to replace

God and get people to direct their worship elsewhere. You know, I was also even thinking, and I'm not going to be able to answer all the theological questions, but how do you deal, for instance, with in 1

Samuel, the witch at Endor? Was that really Samuel?

Or was that Satanic demonic presenting as the spirit of Samuel?

Yeah. That's a question that's been bandied about for centuries. The scriptures never say it wasn't

Samuel. Yeah, yeah, but different people obviously interpret and take it in different ways.

Right. And I've wondered about that ever since I heard that story.

Quite a chilling story. Chilling is the right word, yes. Because even the witch was shocked by it, and afraid by it, frightened by it.

Well, we have to go to our midway break right now, and if anybody else would like to join us with a question, we do have a few people waiting for their questions to be asked and answered by Ron Cole, but if you'd like to join them, our email address is chrisarmson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence if you live outside of the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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While always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith, I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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Our Ancient Foe, which is subtitled very appropriately,

Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, before we return to that conversation,

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I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Ron Cole on the theme of his book,

Our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise.

Let's see here. We have another

Ronald. Ronald in Denton, Texas. And I have very fond memories of my visit to Denton, Texas for a

Bible conference at the Denton Bible Church not many years ago, just about three or four years ago.

And Ronald says, I don't understand when we should believe and doubt those ministers that are claiming to have the ability to cast out demons.

It's a puzzlement to me. Okay, Ronald, it's an excellent question because because I was actually going to bring it up myself in a different way.

It's interesting that in Matthew 7, we have

Jesus Christ saying, starting in verse 21, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my

Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name cast out demons and in your name perform many miracles?

And I will declare to them, I never knew you. Leave me, you who practice lawlessness.

And in that same gospel, keeping in mind, I don't know what your opinion is,

Brother Ron, but Jesus never said to these false believers on judgment in this passage.

No, you didn't. When they said that they cast out demons and perform miracles, Jesus didn't say, no, you didn't.

So it's an interesting question as to if they were, even though they were unregenerate, able to do this.

But we have later on in the same gospel, we have in Matthew 12, we have starting in 22, then a demon -possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus and he healed him so that the mute man spoke and saw all the crowds were amazed and were saying, this man cannot be the son of David, can he?

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, this man casts out demons only by Beelzebub, the ruler of demons.

And knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.

If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

If by Beelzebub, if I, by Beelzebub, cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out?

For this reason, they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

How can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property unless he first binds the strong man and then he will plunder his house?

So, it seems that Jesus is saying that it's nonsensical to accuse one exercising demons of doing it by the power of Satan.

And that sometimes is the response we hear from Reformed and Fundamentalist Christians who are typically cessationist and when they hear about, especially

Pentecostals performing exorcism and stuff, they'll just say, well, even if they're doing it, if it's not fake, they're doing it by the power of the devil.

And you wonder how that could be according to Jesus' own words. But what are your thoughts on that? Well, looking at these two passages, for me, the

Matthew 7 passage deals with the life of the person.

You do workers of lawlessness. You always examine a person by the fruit.

I guess I'm going to deal with this question practically. I have not ever personally had anyone come to me as a pastor and say,

I have someone who I believe has a demon. What would you do? That would be honestly one of the,

I would do an awful lot of praying. But I would say that the primary means by which

I would deal with that if I had to would, one, to take it extremely seriously, two, that with prayer, and three,

I think the only evidence I would have is scripture. I would not want to claim any authority for myself other than what God has given.

I know I'm not directly answering the question, but I do know that there seems to be an awful lot of abuse.

There's even abuse that, I remember the sons of Sceva, here they are trying to cast out demons and even by the

Jesus that Paul preaches, and you'll remember the response that they give him, Jesus, we know, we're aware of Paul, but who are you?

Who are you? And they inflicted severe damage on them. I do tend to personally believe that most of what we see as casting out demons is nothing of the sort.

But if I looked at it practically, I can't imagine anything more daunting, even though we do have the words of scripture, and I was looking even at the break,

Chris, in both James and in 1 Peter, James talks about resisting the devil and he will flee from you.

And Peter, in 1 Peter 5, talks about resist him standing firm in your faith.

None of these things draw attention to the person who is the supposed exorcist.

The other one, this kind of approaches a question that we've had earlier about what power does the devil have.

1 Peter 5, starting with verse 8 and then verse 9, be sober -minded, be watchful, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.

And he does say resist him firm in your faith. Look at almost that, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

That seems that that suffering is directly related to Satan's attacks, that Satan does have considerable power.

So you do not take him lightly. Well, but in his scripture, when

Jesus was tempted, what did he do? He quoted scripture. He quoted scripture. Now talk about the persistence of the devil there.

And I know I'm all over the place on this, but the account of the temptation says, and the devil left

Jesus for an opportune time, that he wasn't going to give up. But scripture is our greatest weapon.

Yes, but going back to the listener question and also what

I posed about the false Christians in Matthew 7 on Judgment Day, would you agree that in this particular passage, that these particular men may have indeed had the ability to cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ, even though they were lost?

Yeah. They certainly claimed to have that power, didn't they? Didn't we?

Did we not? And Jesus, you're right. He does not deny it, but he certainly looks back at their lives and says, there's no evidence in you that you really are regenerate, that you really do belong to me.

So there's obviously some abilities that are done, but you mentioned Pentecostal charismatics, and I tend to disavow much of the work that they purport to be, and a lot of it has to do with what their own lifestyles look like.

Yes. And by the way, Hank, in Searcy, Arkansas, thank you very much for your excellent question.

And you've also won our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise, compliments of P &R

Publishing. So make sure you get us your full mailing address, and we will have that shipped out to you.

And I hope that you are blessed by it. I'd like, before I go to any more listener questions, for you to highlight and drive home the things that you think are most important for our listeners in regard to Satan, his activity, and his demons.

The quote I gave earlier from C .S. Lewis about one of the greatest dangers is to overly fear the demons.

Too many Christians even live almost in fear of demonic activity and Satan. I would say in the book that I had the privilege of editing, and again, it's mostly the work of other men who,

I feel like I stand on the shoulders of giants. But the last two chapters of the book remind us of the victory that we have in Christ Jesus through no power or merit of our own.

But the chapters that Thomas Nettles wrote, and then Sinclair wrote, and I'll just give you the final titles.

Brother Nettles wrote a chapter called The Final Demise, and Sinclair wrote a chapter called

All Things New. These two chapters are worth the price of admission, the price of the purchase.

And may I just say, I want to make this very clear, I'm advertising the book, but I don't get royalties.

So I have no personal stake in the book. Just even reading with Sinclair, this is the way the book ends.

What will characterize this new heaven and new earth to which we can all look forward to? And I want to stop and say that I just spent time with a woman in our church who is dying.

She is actually the sister of a regular in our church, and she is dying, and just in the last week of her life has received

Jesus as her Savior. Hallelujah. And now I can point to her, that even though she's led a hard life, let's talk about heaven, let's talk about glory.

And when you close your eyes for the last time, you're going to open them and see Jesus, and you have this entire hope.

So let us not live in fear. And Sinclair writes, he says,

No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His servants will worship

Him. This is Revelation 22 -3. Why will there be no more curse? Because the Lamb who was accursed for our sakes will stand in the center of the throne.

There will be no more curse because on His hands, His side, and His forehead, there will be the faint reminders of the suffering

He endured to bear the judgment curse of God and to exhaust the judgment curse of God against our sin.

Is it any wonder that the book ends this way? Revelation 22, 20 and 21.

He who testifies to these things says, Surely I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus, the grace of the

Lord Jesus being with all. Amen. This is the blessed hope of every

Christian. And I sit there and I wonder, Chris, why has this book been used as it has?

I marvel at it. A few years ago, Alastair Beck programmed

Truth for Life. Every month they have a particular emphasis and they spend a whole month on spiritual warfare.

And for whatever reason, I'm thankful. Again, it doesn't benefit me at all, but this was the book of the month.

And talking to the owner of PNR Publishing at the time, he said, yeah, we sold thousands of copies.

So why is the interest? Well, I think we've always been interested in, even as Christians, what is the occult like?

What are the dangers? We want to know. We're intrigued. In some ways, it bears some semblance to our ongoing fascination with eschatology.

But I think we all need to be reminded of the hope that we have in Christ. And when the

Bible talks about hope, it is not talking about whether the Phillies will actually decide to play baseball well.

It is the blessed hope that is a certainty that I know that greater is he who is in me is greater than he is who is in the world.

And I know that when I finish the race, that I can look forward to hearing my

Savior say, well done, good and faithful servant, not because of my merit, but because of his greatness and his defeat of my enemy.

And I love that I can say to this woman who is breathing into the last days of her life, the best is yet to come.

You're going to a place where there is no pain or mourning or suffering or enemy because he is vanquished.

And I love how so often the Scripture talks about things that may yet be in the future, but it speaks to them in the aorist or past tense, they're as good as happened because our

God is faithful. Don't get me started, Chris, I'll start preaching. Let's see here.

We have Leif, just like the

Viking Leif Erikson in Toronto, Canada. And Leif says, one thing that puzzles me about Satan possessing

Judas to push him forward to finalize his betrayal of Jesus Christ and bring to fruition

Christ's crucifixion is that I'm wondering if Satan was ignorant of that work of redemption that Christ would be accomplishing on that cross, which would be a substitutionary death for his people for which he would be 100 % and perfectly successful.

Why would Jesus, sorry, why would Satan want Jesus to accomplish that act?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think he was ignorant. Yeah, it is a very good question. I think much of your answer is even found very early in Jesus' ministry of his temptation, that Satan is trying to get

Jesus to abandon his mission, believing that Satan can emerge victorious.

And when he thinks, when Jesus goes to the cross, Satan thinks he has won. And I always remind myself that Satan is uncanny, but he's not omniscient.

Yeah, in our own lives, he finds weaknesses. He finds footholds and he uses them and he keeps going back to them because he's gained some temporary lodging in them, but he's not omniscient.

So yes, I think that the person who sent that email is, you know,

I understand a lot of it, but I think he's got more of the answers than he might think he does. Satan is not seeing with complete accuracy what

Jesus is doing and what I'm saying, he thought, I've won. He's done it and it was his greatest defeat and sealed his doom.

So I'm assuming, for some reason, I'm hearing myself echo back to me.

I'm assuming that you would disagree with Mel Gibson in his script.

Can I say yes even before you finish the question? In his script for The Passion of the

Christ, the first thing that occurs when Christ dies on Calvary is that Satan screams out in horrific anger and fury because in this movie script, he realizes that the redemption

Christ came to provide was accomplished. Yeah, I don't think

Mel is spending a lot of time in scripture, although I applaud his desire to deal with some really important spiritual themes, but certainly you watch the whole movie and Mel's entire emphasis is on the physical torment that Jesus experiences and completely neglects the primary thing that while Jesus is becoming sin, his father is temporarily turning away from him.

So Mel doesn't get it, but at least I think there was a nobility to what he was trying to do, but he didn't understand it, and thus

I think he misunderstood Satan's reaction. Yes, and he was being fueled by a

Roman Catholic mystic that was the inspiration behind the script.

We have to go to our final commercial break and if you have a question,

I would urge you to send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time, and by the way,

I think I failed to mention to our listener in Denton, Texas that he also won a free copy of Our Ancient Foe, Satan's History, Activity, and Ultimate Demise.

Well, so far everybody that has written in questions has won a copy, so if you haven't done it already, send us your mailing address so that we can have that shipped out to you.

And don't go away. We are going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron This is

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.

I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Limbrook Baptist Church a

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We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God was purchased by Christ on the cross and is received through faith alone apart from any human merit works or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living good works and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

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Lord's Day we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details visit limbrookbaptist .org

That's L -Y -N -B -R -O -O -O -K -B -A -P -T -I -S -T -O -R -G This is Pastor Keith Allen of Limbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.

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But today, I want to introduce you to my Senior Pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former Director of Pastoral Correspondence at Grace to You, the

Radio Ministry of John MacArthur. In the film Chariots of Fire, Olympic gold medalist runner

Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com

That's nhpbc .com You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672

That's 516 -352 -9672 That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

God bless you. And don't forget, folks, this program is also paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &

Associates. If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

United States, please call my longtime dear friend and brother in Christ, Daniel P.

Buttafuoco, attorney at law at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit

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Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm, Buttafuoco & Associates, from Chris Harnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Also, folks, if you are a man in ministry leadership, don't forget that my next free biannual

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastors launching will be held on Thursday, October 1st, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring for the first time as my keynote speaker,

David A. Harrell. And David is going to be addressing the theme of his book,

Why America Hates Biblical Christianity. And not only is your admission free if you're a man in ministry leadership and your meal free, but every man who attends will receive a heavy sack, maybe even two heavy sacks, of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by generous

Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom. Everything is free of charge because of the strict orders of my precious late wife,

Julie, who designed and helped me launch these luncheons back in the 1990s when

I was still living in New York. And one of the things that she insisted upon is that nothing ever for sale at these luncheons.

She never wanted one of the pastors attending to ever have to reach for his wallet for anything.

So please, if you'd like to join us there, if you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Give us your full name, the name of your church or organization and its location and include the number of men who will be joining you.

That's Thursday, October 1st, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. The free Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon at Church of the

Living Christ in Louisville, Pennsylvania, featuring guest speaker David A. Harrell.

And I hope to hear from you soon at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Also, don't forget about my interview tomorrow with Dr.

Keith Evans, Associate Professor of Christian Counseling at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, and former director of the

Biblical Counseling Institute and academic dean at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

And he's going to be addressing the theme of his doctoral dissertation, Developing an Awareness of the

Demonic in Biblical Counseling in Conversation with William Perkins.

And he's also going to be giving a Reformed analysis of popular Roman Catholic exorcist

Chad Ripperger, who has been making appearances on many of the major podcasts out there.

So I hope you tune in. Before I go to a listener question,

I do want you to say something that involves a part of what

C .S. Lewis said in your quote earlier, that we shouldn't allow ourselves to become utterly fascinated to the point of spending too much time delving into this area of the demonic.

What would you say would be a warning sign that somebody is doing that to an excess?

That's a good question, Chris. I would say that you spend much of your book purchase money on related topics, that you find yourself...

I think sometimes the eschatological views are... Some people get obsessed with those, but you just spend an inordinate amount of time when you really look at all counsel of Scripture, and there's so many more subjects that are of greater hope.

Yes, we need to be aware of demonic activity, but we also need to be aware of our salvation, and aware of our justification, and aware of all the blessings of being an adopted child.

Yeah, you back out. I think you can accurately gauge whether...

What are you spending most of your time reading? What are you spending most of your time studying? What are you spending most of your time praying about?

And some people just become too obsessed. And that obsession leads to fear, in many cases.

Amen. Let's see here. We have Amethyst in Jupiter, Florida.

And Amethyst says, How do you know if a loved one is demon -possessed or oppressed if you think that even happens in our day and age?

I think it does happen, at least demonic oppression. I want to ask Amethyst to tune in tomorrow, because that seems like your speaker for tomorrow.

He deals with that in biblical counseling. So I'm giving you a plug, Chris. How's that? And I want to give you another plug.

We have a regional... In Pennsylvania, in the Bible Fellowship Church, we have a Bucksmont Regional Pastors' Gathering.

It was just this morning, and one of my... You froze, brother.

Uh -oh. He ran away with dozens of books. So there's your plug.

You got to repeat that, because you froze and nothing that you said in about the last 30 seconds was heard.

Oh. Well, I'm sorry. At our Pastors' Regional, one of my friends actually gave a plug for your

Pastors' Luncheon. Oh, wow. He said that he can verify that he used the word sackload.

Yes, he received many more books than he was ever anticipating. So I'm giving you a plug as well. Great. Was that Josh Miller or Steve DelDucco?

No, it was neither one of those, but then Hitchcock, the pastor of our church in Zionsville, Pennsylvania, although I know those other two brothers and I know at least

Josh. Has Steve been on your program as well? But I know Josh has. Josh has, and right now, I can't remember if Steve has, but you've given me a good nudge there to invite him on the program.

In fact, one of his elders... He would be a good fit. One of his elders, who

I believe his name is Josh, the blind brother, I think his name is

Josh, and I can't remember his last name right now. I met him at the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg years ago, and he was sitting right in front of me.

Never met him before. I was talking before a conference started with a friend, and he recognized my voice, and he said, are you

Chris Arnzen from Iron Sherpa and Siren Radio? And I said, yes. How did you know? He goes, well, I listen to your show, and you're the reason

I'm sitting here in this pew right now because I heard you plug this church, and I've been attending it ever since.

Well, he wound up becoming an elder, and then he helped Steve DelDucco plant the other church, and he's an elder there.

So, love to have him on the show too, actually. Yeah, Steve would be a good guest for you. Having a show on church planting would be,

I think, fascinating. Steve would be a good guest for you. Okay, and we have time for at least one more question.

We have Ronald in Wading River, Long Island, New York, and Ronald says, can you recommend any books on this subject other than the one that you have been personally involved in as an editor?

I cannot. And I will say this in defense of myself, this is a book that is 10 years old.

Well, truth doesn't... Biblical truth does not change or wear out.

Oh, it's not. I haven't done... I know there are other good resources out there.

I just have not had the time to access them. Well, I want...

Now that we are drawing to a conclusion, I want you to bring to our attention those things that you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about our subject.

And also feel free, if you want to plug anything, that either you yourself are doing in the realm of ministry or that the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown is doing. Well, I'm always going to speak highly of the church of which

I have served as the pastor there. A loving, loving, wonderful, serving, supportive congregation.

And anyone who comes, please, if you were to visit us on a Sunday morning for worship at 10 .15,

I would love to personally meet you. In terms of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, I'm always going to try to push for the

Quakertown Conference on Reformed Theology. This is going to be our 19th year on November the 13th and 14th.

The subject for this year's QCRT is We Believe, What the Apostles' Creed Teaches, and Why It Matters with speakers

Ian Hamilton, Derek Thomas, and Raymond Johnson. I'm looking forward to how each one of these brothers works through parts of the

Apostles' Creed. Starting with Derek Thomas in his first message, he'll be talking about why creeds are important as brief statements of our faith.

So that is my plug for the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, which their Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology is next weekend at Proclamation Presbyterian in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.

You certainly would be welcome there and would be gratified by your participation in that conference. Well, if you provide for me at some point after this live program, the contact information of all your speakers,

I would love to invite each and every one of them on to the show to promote that conference, the

Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology. I would be glad to do so. We're actually,

Ian is coming over directly from Scotland just for our conference and he's going to stay over the next morning and preach to our congregation.

And my elders are afraid that I'm going to pick up a Scottish accent that will apparently carry over for the next two weeks after that.

Well, it's been an honor and privilege to have you back in the program and I'm glad that the

Lord saw fit to keep you on this planet because some of our listeners may not know, especially since I forgot to mention it in the beginning, that my guest today,

Ron Cole, is a survivor of cancer. Thanks be to the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ.

And thank you for joining us today on this program. I want to make sure that our listeners have your website.

It's quakertownbfc .org, quakertownbfc, which stands for Bible Fellowship Church, .org.

Don't forget about PNR Publishing, who provided the free books today, prpbooks .com,

prpbooks .com. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater