"You’re NOT a Christian!" — Jeff Durbin Clashes with Trinity-Denier

There's a moment here when you realize Jeff Durbin isn't talking to someone who wants the truth, he's talking to someone who's terrified of it. You can hear it in his voice, the excuses, the deflections, talking about denominational labels, anything to avoid the authority of scripture, but when Jeff finally hits the passage that exposes this man's entire worldview, he freezes.

Watch this.

Jesus as the I Am and the Warning of John 8

Unless you believe, egoe me, I am, you will die in your sins. So Jesus is telling you, if you reject him as the I am, you're going to die in your sins,.

John.

This is a clash of worldviews in today's video, and Jeff Durbin is going to give us a masterclass on how to do it. So let's dive in. Welcome back to Wise Disciple. My name is Nate, and I'm helping you become the effective Christian that Jesus wants you to be.

Before I jumped into this ministry full-time, I was a debate teacher and a pastor, and it's from that unique perspective that I make these videos. Make sure to like, sub, and share this video around if it blesses you.

How you doing?

John.

John, great to meet you, man.

Like I said, I've seen you on YouTube.

Oh, right on. Well, it's great to meet you, John.

I'm not Muslim.

Okay, yeah. You're, uh...

I'm Christian, but I don't believe Jesus is the almighty God.

So then you're not a Christian?

No.

Don't beat around the bush, Jeff. Just be up front with him, man. Stop playing games and tell it like it is, you know?

But I just, I just want to meet you.

Well, why would you reject it?

I've seen you on YouTube.

But if scripture calls Jesus the mighty God, why would you reject that?

Again, like I said, I just don't...

Do you believe Isaiah chapter...

So he doesn't actually want to get into a debate. That's interesting. If you say this to somebody like Jeff Durbin, what did you think was going to happen, man? Jeff's going to press you.

Chapter 9, verse 6 and 7, where it calls him El Gabor, the mighty God.

Well, like I was telling him, I have a different... Well, I'm apostolic.

Apostolic.

Now, a lot of people think that when I say what I say, they think I'm Pentecostal.

Yeah, because sometimes there's Pentecostals are called that. So are you apostolic meaning oneness?

No.

Like what?

Where we follow the...

So notice the move here, Jeff immediately wants to go to scripture.

Why?

Well, because the guy claims to be a Christian. And by the way, this is what you should do as well. If anyone claims to be a Christian, then what they're doing, whether they realize it or not, is they're saying that I hold the word of God to be the authority over my life.

Period.

Now, maybe you go down that path and quickly realize, well, this person does not hold the word of God to be the authority over their life, in which case you're most likely dealing with what some refer to as a Chino, right?

Which is a Christian in name only.

Okay.

And it looks like that might be what's going on here with Jeff. But that's why he goes to the scripture initially. And did you notice the man immediately started identifying his denomination?

Hmm.

That's a red flag.

Apostles.

So can I ask you this? If you if you claim to follow the apostles doctrine, the...

Apostolic.

Right.

So that's a good name. I would say I'm apostolic and I follow the apostles doctrine.

The reason that I say we don't, we're not oneness.

I was very curious because some apostolic are oneness. Yeah. So, yeah.

We're not.

Okay.

We believe in God. We believe there is one God.

How do you know that?

So it sounds like. So now I'm trying to understand this. So he rejects oneness Pentecostalism, which is what apostolic typically refers to. But then he appears. It appears that he agrees with oneness Pentecostals.

So is he oneness or not?

But we believe that God sent his son to die.

So do I.

For all mankind.

But how do you know that there's only one God?

Because the Bible says over Israel.

And the Bible also says that Jesus is the mighty God.

Yeah.

Again, like I said.

Well, why would you reject with the Bible? Well, Clay, you accept one thing the Bible says. But you reject what else the Bible says. So if you're apostolic and you follow the apostles doctrine. The apostles called Jesus our great God and Savior.

The apostles worshipped Christ. Do you have one now?

I have this, like I was telling him. I've talked to many people who believe Jesus is the almighty God.

So you see what he's doing there. So, so we'll, we'll get, we're not going to stop, but we're going to play the video here, but just stick with me. You see what's happening here. Jeff is trying to take it to the scripture.

And the man wants to talk about how other people think Jesus is God. Can you see that? This is obfuscation. Whether he realizes it or not, by the way, Jeff asked a simple question. And then he asked a knockout question.

You like, did you catch that? So he said, how do you know there's only one God? And by the way, the reason that he asked that question is because he knows that the answer is the Bible. Look at this. Deuteronomy chapter six, verse four says, hero, Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is one.

This is the famous Shema that everyone in Jesus day knew and recited consistently.

Right?

All throughout the old Testament. God makes it abundantly clear that there is no other besides him. But then we also see this with the apostle Paul, first Corinthians eight, verse six. Yet for us, there is one God.

There it is. The father from whom are all things and for whom we exist. And one Lord, Jesus Christ through whom are all things and through whom we exist. So wait, what? So there is only the one God, but how can there be a Lord also?

Right?

Have you ever had this question before? If there's only one God. Uh, what's going on with this one Lord thing here in lies the debate, right? Now, Jeff asks the question, how do you know there's only one God?

Because he knows that if the man says the Bible, well, then Jeff can show him where the Bible teaches that Jesus is God. Now, this methodology that I'm highlighting right here, it's called setting the garden path.

Okay.

This is what we would call this in debate. And I've talked about this before in other videos. This is where you ask a set of leading questions that seem benign at the outset, but actually set up your interlocutor for a humdinger or a knockout punch of a question at the end.

Okay.

This is what really good debaters typically do during cross-examination in debate. And Jeff should know all about that because he's been on the debate stage many times. And he's actually a powerful debater.

Right? Because the Bible teaches that.

And like I said, I respect you guys.

I do.

I respect it.

Would you? Can I just say one thing to you, John, with love? Jesus said in John chapter eight, unless you believe I go, Amy, I am, you will die in your sins. So Jesus is telling you, if you reject him as the I am, you're going to die in your sins.

John.

Okay.

That just for reference, that comes from John chapter eight, verse 24. Look at this. I told you that you would die in your sins for unless you believe that I am, uh, he, you will die in your sins. Unless you believe that I am what though?

That's, that's the $6 million question.

Right?

And if you get the answer wrong, guess what? You die in your sins. So this question is of a dire importance. Who is Jesus? Who do you believe he is? Now, uh, some of your translations, including mine say I am he, but that's not what the original language is getting at.

Jesus is taking a famous phrase from the old Testament in order to make a theological claim about himself.

All right.

And Jeff is going to explain this.

I don't believe that.

But Jesus said that what's your, what's your response to Jesus?

Wow.

The thing is when he's, I believe he meant if you don't believe what the Bible says.

He didn't say that though. He said, echo a me the Greek term. Same from the subdue agent. It's the I am. And they knew what he was saying because they picked up stones to kill him because he says before Abraham was echo a me.

I am.

They picked up stones to kill him. And he says to them in John 10, right after that, he says, many good works have I shown you from the father. For which of these do you stone me? They said, for your good works, we stone you not, but for blasphemy that you being a man, make yourself God.

So they understood what Jesus was saying better than you.

Yeah.

But, but the thing is that after that, he said that he said that he didn't have that. He said that he said that I am a son of God.

He didn't say because he is the son of God.

He didn't say that.

I am.

I am.

Oh my God.

He said, he, he, he did.

So that's funny because this guy now sounds like a Muslim.

Right.

And notice what happened again.

Right.

Jeff goes to the scripture again. He goes to John chapter eight. I think he mentioned John 10.

Right.

And the guy keeps trying to dodge those passages. You see that now, if you happen to be in a situation like this, the best thing that you can do is not let your interlocutor dodge your original point or question.

If I were you, I would say something like this. Look, I see that you want to bring up this other issue, whatever it is.

Right.

But before we go there, what is your response to this issue?

Right.

That way they truly wrestle with what Jesus is communicating about himself. And this man needs to deal with Jesus's own words in John eight. You know, I mean, it's, it's not just in verse 24, ladies and gentlemen, look at this.

Jesus as Yahweh in John 8 and John 5

So Jesus is sort of continuing the thought about what he's communicating and watch what he says just a few seconds later. Look at this. So Jesus said to them, when you have lifted up the son of man, then you will know that there it is again.

I am.

I do nothing on my own authority.

Right.

Speak justice. The father has taught me now, as I said, there is no he in the original Greek. It's just, I am. He's telling them about himself, about understanding who he is, by the way. Let's zoom all the way out.

Guess how many times Jesus identifies himself as the I am in this same way in the entire gospel of John. You ready for this? Seven times.

Hmm.

Is that on purpose? Yes.

Right.

Have you been with me. In previous episodes where I talk about Demetria seven times, Jesus identifies himself as the I am. And why does he do that?

Right.

Why is this phrase so important? What does this phrase even mean? Well, as it turns out, the old Testament unlocks this for us, friends. Look at this. So, so at the burning bush where Moses first encounters Yahweh, he has a conversation with him and he asks him what his name is.

Look at this. Verse 13. Then Moses said to God, if I come to the people of Israel and say to them, the God of your fathers has sent me to you and they ask me, what is his name? What shall I say to them?

God said to Moses, I am who I am. And then he said, say this to the people of Israel. I am has sent me to you. I am is the name that Yahweh identifies himself as. It's the name that he wants Moses to carry with him to the other people of Israel.

That's why Jesus is identifying himself with the same phrase. It's because he's telling everyone that's me. I'm Yahweh from the Old Testament. And it gets even more obvious when you see this. John chapter eight, verse 31.

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, if you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples. And you will know that. Let me stop there.

Okay.

My word.

Right.

So, so we have to understand the moment that a Jewish crowd would hear this, there would probably be some gasps from the audience.

Right.

His word. Why is that? Well, because no rabbi or teacher from the first century would ever talk like that. From the first century mindset, only Torah gives life. Watch this. Deuteronomy chapter 30, verse 15.

See, I have set before you today life and good death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord, your God, look at that. You shall live. Do you see how Jesus is relying on the Old Testament? So that everyone around him in John and the gospel of John, but particularly in John eight, that's where we're at.

They'll understand what he's actually saying. As a matter of fact, watch how the psalmist puts it. I mean, I think it's even more clear here. Look at this. Psalm 107, verse 20. He sent out. So the Lord sent out his word and healed them and delivered them from their destruction.

Who sent out the word? God sent out his word. Are you making the connection yet? And people were delivered or set free. Wait a second. That's what Jesus just said, right?

Look at this.

John chapter eight. I'll say it again. Verse 31. If you abide in my word, there it is. You are truly my disciples and watch this verse 32. You will know the truth and the truth will deliver you. It will set you free.

Do you see what Jesus is doing? Ladies and gentlemen, he's identifying himself as the Yahweh of the Old Testament. That's why he says in John chapter five. I mean, this is all over the place. This is the last one I'm going to give you, right?

We're going to get to the video. This is the last one. Watch this. This is why Jesus says this in John five.

Look at this.

Verse 39. You search the scriptures. Pause. What is the scripture in Jesus day? The Old Testament. You search the Old Testament because you think that in them you have eternal life. And it is they that bear witness about me.

He's saying I'm Yahweh. The scriptures testify about me because that's who I am. I'm the one who delivers his people by the power of his word. I'm the one who gives life. I am the great I am. And unless you believe that you will die in your sins.

Look at that.

Verse 40. You refuse to come to me that you may have life. There it is again. The Jews don't like any of this.

They don't. They don't.

They don't like any of that. Look, look what happens in John eight. Verse 48. So the Jews answer him. Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon? You know, which by the way, before that, they were challenging Jesus.

You know, they go on to suggest that his mother was sexually immoral. They say all kinds of nasty stuff. And then here they are suggesting that he has a demon, right? And then Jesus says, I do not have a demon, but I honor my father and you dishonor me.

But you know what? Verse 50, 51, truly, truly. I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. There it is again. Are you seeing the pattern? And then Jesus says this verse 52 says it again.

Then he says this verse 56, your father, Abraham rejoiced that he would see my.

Day.

He saw it and was glad. That's interesting. Why would he say that? Why would, so he saw my day. That's interesting. What's going on there? It's because Yahweh was with Abraham. Do you remember this? Do you remember Genesis chapter 18, verse one, when the Lord appears to Abraham at the Oaks of Mamre?

What? Right, right.

Why is Jesus being so familiar with Abraham in the way that he's speaking? You know what I mean? It's because Yahweh was there with Abraham in Genesis. Your father, Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day.

He saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, well, you are not yet 50 years old. And have you seen Abraham? The Jews understood what was going on. They understood what Jesus was communicating. They refused to go there fully, but they're picking up on what he's putting down.

So now, you know, now for them, it's like a, it's like a math equation. All right. So how, how old are you, Jesus? Wait a second. Are you, you're not yet 50. What's going on here? Now, at this point, Jesus could have said, no, no, no, no.

You guys have it all wrong.

Okay.

I'm, I'm not claiming to be God. I'm just sent by God. I'm just a prophet and I'm just here to give a message.

Right?

By the way, that's what the Muslims think about Jesus, right? That's what a lot of people think about Jesus. Maybe that's what Jeff, uh, John over here in the video thinks about Jesus. That's not what Jesus does.

Jesus leans into their conclusions, not away from it, leans into it. And this is what he says next verse, uh, 58, truly, truly. I say to you before Abraham was, I am, this is what, uh, Jeff Durbin is bringing up here before Abraham even existed.

It go, I, me, I am the name of Yahweh. It's overwhelming friends. What Jesus is doing. He's claiming to be Yahweh. He is God in human flesh. The one true God of the Bible. Do you see that better than saying I'm the almighty God?

He took the divine name of God. Yahweh. I am upon himself. So it's even better than saying I'm a God. I'm God in general. He said, I'm the specific only God, the true and living God over Israel. The I am a go a me.

And so he did better than simply saying, I'm God. There's lots of prophets in history that have called themselves God. David Koresh said that he was God, right? Jesus did better than that. And he said, I go, Amy, I am.

And they said, they said to him, we know what you're saying. And they were going to kill him for it. So they understood, John. What hopefully you understand is that Jesus is claiming to be the almighty God.

The only God. And he did say, John, he did say you acknowledged it. He says, unless you believe I am, you will die in your sins. That's that's the stakes, John. It's not like a small thing.

I just want to meet you.

All right, John.

Go read. Couldn't handle it. Finding the nearest exit.

Right.

Look, friends. If you take your Bible seriously. You must come to a conclusion about Jesus Christ. Who is he really? And the answer that Jesus wants you to know is that he is God. It is his word that will set you free from your sin.

It is by placing your faith in him that you will be saved. You have to get this right.

Amen.

All right.

Hey, let's pray for John here. You know, let's pray for him. When you put this video away, don't forget about John. Please pray that he thinks about what Jeff said that he goes around the corner. Figuratively speaking.

He just continues to meditate and chew on what Jeff offered for him. That he goes back to the scripture and takes it seriously.

Amen.

By the way, speaking to Jeff, boy, he does not disappoint.

Right.

With stuff like this. He knows how to walk the balance of boldness and graciousness. Truth in love. And we should all take notes from Jeff. Start setting that garden path, friends. Start watching your conversations for Jesus Christ become much more productive because you're doing what Jeff does.

You're setting that garden path. You're asking those questions. You're challenging the person that you're engaging.

All right. All right.

That's enough out of me. Now it's your turn. What do you think? What would you have said to John here if you were in Jeff's place? Let me know in the comments below. I'm curious to get your thoughts. As always, if you enjoyed the insights here, why don't you go check out the Patreon community?

I'm there every day doing a Bible study. We're going through Romans right now.

Hmm.

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