April 14, 2017 Show with Jerry Bergman on “How Darwinism Corrodes Morality”

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you a happy Good Friday on this 14th day of April 2017.

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We are supposed to be interviewing Jerry Bergman today, Dr. Jerry Bergman, who is an author including the book that we are supposed to be addressing today,

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How Darwinism Corrodes Morality, but we have not yet heard from Dr. Bergman for some reason, so I'm going to go to a early station break, and if you could be patient while we try to locate

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Dr. Bergman, that would be very much appreciated, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question about Darwinian evolution and how

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Darwinianism, or should I say Darwinism, corrodes morality, you can email us at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

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Welcome back and I believe we do have Dr. Jerry Bergman on the air.

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Dr. Jerry Bergman has nine degrees including seven graduate degrees, has studied for his past college work in biology, chemistry, psychology, and evaluation and research.

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A prolific writer and teacher of biology, chemistry, and biochemistry at Northwest State in Archbold, Ohio and he's discussing his book

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How Darwinism Corrodes Morality and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr.

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Jerry Bergman. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. And sorry for the confusion. I don't know what has happened with the miscommunication, but I'm glad that we were having

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God's smile upon us today and he worked things out. Okay, that's good. Yes, well first of all before I even get into the subject of Darwinism and the book,

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I want to get some background from you. I want to hear about how you were raised, what kind of religious background you were from, if any, and how our sovereign

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Lord eventually through his providence drew you to himself and saved you. Yeah, the important thing in my life was, partially my background of course, my father was an atheist and my mother was, well, she switched back and forth to several different faiths but developed

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Alzheimer's relatively early and so there wasn't a lot of background there. But the main thing that drew me away from Darwinism, I was at one time an atheist as well as my dad and that was a lot to do with the influence of education.

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I was a science major for many of my degrees and we studied science basically. The background of science is

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Darwinism and I naively accepted that and as time went on though I began to question it more and more and realized that there are big problems with Darwinism and when you realize that, you realize that if Darwinism doesn't explain how we got here, then what does?

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You really only have two choices. Either we were made by God, intelligent designer, or we were made by time, chance, unforeseen occurrence, in other words survival of the fittest as evolution teaches.

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So when I remove one possibility there was really only one basic one left and that was indeed we have a designer and then my feeling was

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I have an obligation to find out who that designer is and of course I explored different traditions and the main one that I explored as others have as well, by the way there are many people who have gone around the same path that I did, and I explored the evidence and of course the scriptures clearly show the evidence of so many many ways that indeed is the

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Word of God and indeed following that Word of God leads me into Christianity and basically it's like watering over, going over a dam.

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You move more and more toward the end of the dam and finally the evidence piles up so high that you fall over the dam and this is called of course in Christian terms is called being born again.

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So you make that commitment, you make that jump and indeed I did that but as a result of in my case and many cases a lot of study research and reading.

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I did not have a Pauline on the road to Damascus experience, some people do, but some people

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I know I find most people don't. They basically become convinced because of the evidence and of course the scriptures do talk about the importance of the evidence and the importance of being able to defend the faith that is within us and therefore

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I stress since my conversion I stress and still stress today apologetics that indeed apologetics understanding the evidence for Christianity is the key way most of us become convinced of indeed the reality of Christ and his sacrifice for us and the basic Christian message.

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Well praise God for that testimony it's refreshing to hear that science actually led you to believe in a creator and eventually the

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Lord used that to bring you to your knees and cry out to Jesus Christ for your eternal life and the reason why

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I'm saying how refreshing that is obviously we have heard stories about many many folks perhaps especially young people who in either high school or college may begin their entrance into school as Bible believers because of their upbringing they may even be old earth

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I'm sorry they may even be young earth creationists and they leave school being

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Darwinians they have they totally abandon what they were raised with because they believe that Darwinism is the only intellectual sophisticated scientific and true explanation for the origins of the earth and it's it's absolutely amazing to me how this has become the the origin of the species has become basically the

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Bible of so many scientists when Darwin himself wasn't really an accomplished scientist was he?

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Well no he wasn't in fact his only degree was in theology and he did a lot of experiments but he did experiments on things like worms and insects that are consumed by plants the fly trap for example and so he did some experiments but none of his experiments really helped support his basic idea of Darwinism and we call it

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Darwinism today by the way because he was wasn't the one who totally originated the theory he basically was the one who was able to convince the scientific world or much the scientific world that indeed his idea of the origin of species is true basically to review what

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Darwinism is Darwin recognized correctly that there's a great deal of variety in the natural world and then he said well some of that variety produces an animal or plant that's superior to others and that superior animal is more likely to survive and propagate and propagate its kind those inferior animals are less likely to be able to propagate their kind the whole problem with that is not natural selection the whole problem is what they call not survival of the fittest but the arrival of the fittest and Darwin was not able to explain that and today we have the same problem we're trying to explain scientists they're trying to explain evolutionists specifically

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I trying to explain the arrival of the fittest the only theory they've come up with that explains it or at least they think it does is mutations and the whole problem mutations is the vast majority are either near neutral which means they're not lethal but they accumulate and cause a problem in the long run or they're deleterious they're harmful and so how in the world do you get evolution when the vast majority mutations are not beneficial but slightly deleterious slightly harmful or in a major way harmful what happens is evolution is not going forward it's going backward and that's really recognized in the area

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I teach for example in medicine we know that the accumulation of mutations is going up with each generation back my biochemistry book says after each generation a child has about a hundred more mutations than his or her parents and then that child's child will have a hundred more still so what we see is the accumulation of mutations through each generation and that leads up to what they call mutational meltdown and never going to get us to evolution it's not going the right way and you just look at the evidence which is very clear and you can see that indeed the evidence is not that we're getting better and better with each generation we're not evolving but we're de -evolving which interestingly of course the scriptures talk about Adam and Eve being perfect and since then sin entered into the world and as a result the mutational load is increasing in each generation and that's exactly what we see in science now was

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Darwin a theistic evolutionist or was he did he become an atheist what was his what were his views of God and so on well his views on God changed a little bit when he was younger of course he went to seminary and became a wanted to become a priest

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I should say a minister in the Anglican Church and he when pressed on this he wavered back and forth a problem is when when he was alive his wife was a devout

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Christian his family was very involved in the church his neighbors his friends many were very involved in the church and therefore had at least outward a show of Christianity and so he was he was a good politician one might condemn him for his ideas but on the other hand he was a good politician and he recognized you don't want to call yourself an atheist he once said that he never was a full atheist but when you read his ideas he for example said that atheism must explain everything and theism must not enter at all into his theory and so when people said well maybe

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God intervened to create man he couldn't accept that his co -worker Wallace accepted basically realized that there's no way that man could evolve and therefore

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Wallace felt that God intervened in the creation of man well Darwin was upset with that and that basically severed their their good relationship and Darwin basically said there's no way

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I can accept God as having any effect at all in the origin of life and humans especially so belief wise

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I guess you'd have to say he was an atheist but he wouldn't label himself that way he would probably label himself an agnostic but in many ways

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I think he was wavering he was just you know trying to please the public he was trying to be a good politician as we know now from politicians they tend to say what they need to get elected and and then when they get elected they do what they want to some do at least and we can say the same thing is true with Charles Darwin he he needed what he he said what he needed to I should say to sell books and he indeed sold lots of books and within a few years like 20 years he converted most scientists to the evolutionary worldview but there's always been hold out there's always been scientists then and today that recognize you'll never get humans from lots of mistakes if you look at humans what they believe were the results of billions of mistakes well

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I don't buy that and you don't either I know and and evolutionists yet they have to admit that's really what they teach that were the result of billions of mistakes and that when you put it that way it doesn't make sense and the way

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Darwin put it of course it does make much more sense but then he was a good politician and tactful and knew what to say to sell his ideas and he really thought he was selling his ideas when he convinced somebody he called them converts he says well we'll keep working on so -and -so and when they finally accept the

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Darwinian worldview he'd say well we've got a convert now so he converted them to our cause so he really active in proselytizing and I must add very effective in proselytizing and that's one reason we call his theory

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Darwinism instead of Lamarckianism or some other name now if you could this may seem like a silly question because of the way that evolution and Darwinism has really infiltrated society globally from our youngest years of childhood but if you could just just to prevent anybody from having any kind of a caricature of what

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Darwinian evolution really means if you could give us a summary of what

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Darwin actually meant by evolution and what is the theory that is predominantly held today by by scientists who are

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Darwinian well the theory is best described by a cliche which may seem humorous but it really is what they believe and that is evolution is from the goo which is the original matter which they believe evolved in itself from the goo to you by way of the zoo and that basically that we can trace although they have no evidence of this that they believe that man basically has ancestors that are traced all the way back to pond scum as the old saying goes is that actually was actually true what they believe that's the goo and they recognize many scientists today that that's just not viable that there's no way given the conditions on the earth there's no way you're gonna form cells purely purely by spontaneous generation and time and chance and mutations and so on so now a more and more common theory is basically that we evolved from life which came from outer space in fact

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Neil deGrasse Tyson who did the film cosmos which is a tremendously successful film had a huge budget basically he spends a good deal of one part of one film arguing that life came from the stars and of course that begs the question well we're how to get to the stars

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I mean if we can't explain the origin of life on the earth how are you gonna explain the origin somewhere else some other planet some unknown

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XYZ planet somewhere out near other stars and he's really struggling

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I to come up with an explanation for the origin of life and that doesn't solve the problem it just moves it somewhere else instead of spontaneously originating on earth which is what they believe then it's spontaneously originate somewhere else but why do we think that somewhere else is more habitable and more commensurate with the origin of life well we don't so what we're doing is speculating about possibility of life or originating somewhere else that we really have no idea where and we can speculate yeah you know billion light years away it evolved but we really can't explain it there as well and we know that the planets we've discovered we've discovered quite a few now of the planets we discovered the only one that we know that's hospital hospitable toward life is of course the the earth and no other planet we know of is hospitable to life the planets either too large too small too close to the

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Sun too far away or we don't understand the conditions that are there to determine whether or not they're hospitable to life and I don't think they're gonna find any planets that are but you know scientists are spending money looking and and to me that just moves the problem somewhere else it doesn't solve it but they realize they've got a conundrum how do you get from organic matter from molecules how do you get that to the cell the cell as we know of course the most complex machine in the universe and as such how you gonna get from bunch of goo the cells they don't have any idea and they admit most scientists admit if they study this that indeed we have no idea well that forces us to believe there must be an intelligent creator that indeed created the first cell created all life and that's really the only logical explanation that we have now the thing that is fascinating about this fascinating and disturbing is that you have those who claim to be the true intelligentsia of science this true elite the true scientists are those who claim darwinian ism as their as their theory for the origins of life and yet there is no scientific evidence to back up what they say and the observable science when you have experiments that can be reproduced and so on all of that seems to point towards creationism and the fact that there is intelligent design it seemed it seems very bizarre it to me it's very reflective of ancient roman catholicism where you had the roman catholic church severely punishing individuals for believing in things that they discovered through science and because it violated a catholic teaching that was not even biblical or it was not even the result of of accurate biblical exegesis they were really superstitions or myths that the catholic church believed and they would censor or punish people who disagreed with them and of course you know we have copernicus and galileo and people like that that were rebuked by rome and censored and so on for their beliefs and today it seems you have a reversal of things where you have the scientific world acting like a religious totalitarian entity where it doesn't matter if you can prove us wrong you better not say what you what you believe or we will ruin your career we will get you fired we will prevent you from being hired you'll be a laughing stock in the scientific community for believing what you believe even though we can never in any stretch of the imagination prove what we believe yeah that reminds me of my book

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I wrote not too long ago it just published actually a few months ago called silencing the Darwin skeptics and I show indeed that that's exactly what's happening and I've been interested very much in eugenics and in the application of Darwinism to society and of course the best example that is

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Hitler and Hitler's person that went with him and in studying that in fact my book how

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Darwinism corrodes morality which of course master books new leaf press published when

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I one thing I stress in there indeed as the fact that indeed Darwinism has affected our morals our moral values in fact the other book the

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Darwin effect which I also take this theme and carry this through without a

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Darwin effect was published master books I'm sorry Darwin corrodes morality was published by another publisher

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Joshua Press Joshua Press right and those two books I stress the importance of how eugenics really dominated science and there were very very few scientists that opposed eugenics and I wonder how in the world could so many people accept an idea which we recognize today as just ludicrous the idea that certain groups blacks

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Jews and Slavics and Russians and so on that they're inferior to what we see that today is just irresponsible we had very few scientists rejected that idea 50 60 70 years ago and so we had a lot of social pressure which forced them to accept it now some did reject it but didn't speak out about it in fact one of the main ones that spoke out about it was an

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American called France dr. Boaz France Boaz and he was Jewish himself and he taught at Columbia University and he ended up in trouble because he questioned the

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Orthodox view of eugenics and we see the same thing today among Darwinists that they accept a worldview which

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I see is how can people accept this and as you know agree as well well how could they accept 50 years ago the idea that Slavics Russians were biologically inferior and as one scientist said they're human weeds and we have to eliminate them well we have the same social environment which pressures back then a worldview today another worldview and the worldview today is of course

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Darwinism and the worldview back then was eugenics and I think in time we'll we are already beginning to recognize how wrong the worldview that scientists propagate today is and a good example that is

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I just wrote a book also on C .S. Lewis and I point out that indeed C .S.

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Lewis recognized even in his day in the 60s and 50s how ludicrous

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Darwinism was and he effectively dealt with it now he wasn't a biologist of course he didn't talk about the fossil record but he talked about the moral effects on society and the pressure that scientists exerted against other scientists as well as those in society to accept this idea that indeed from the goo to you by way of the zoo is true and he did a really good job in fact

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I never really appreciated C .S. Lewis until I started to work on this book several years ago and I document indeed that he he recognized the core of the matter and that is the harm

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Darwinism has done to society and really effectively showed where it led and he predicted it would read to a

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Nazi like totalitarianism which of course is exactly what it's done well

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I'm gonna take some of our some of our listener questions right now and first we're going to start with Charlie Liebert who is from Carlisle Pennsylvania and Charlie is a name

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Charlie Liebert is a name that many of my Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners will recognize because Charlie quite often is my co -host here on Iron Sharpens Iron and Charlie happens to be founder of a ministry called six day creation .com

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and he has a question for you in my discussions with non -christians many say that Germany was

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Christian at the time of Hitler I know they were humanistic but how do you counter that statement simply and he says

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PS I lost three great uncles with thirteen children in the

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Holocaust that's interesting Charlie I want to hear more about that because I know that you're a Christian so it's interesting that you lost ancestors in the

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Holocaust nonetheless but if you could comment yeah people very often will will blur the distinction between nominal mainline

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Christianity and the genuine Bible believing regenerate faith yeah on my book

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Hitler and Darwinian worldview I cover a chapter on that but there's been a lot written on that it's clear that many in Germany many so -called

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Christians in Germany we're not living up to what's obviously Christian and we know Christians Christianity teaches things like love your enemy love your brother those how you treat others is how you basically treat

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Christ and if you love your brother then you love Christ and you know there are many many scriptures that's pretty obvious and so pretty obvious that indeed they were not living up to the

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Christian standard so many then as is true today so many were Sunday Christians there they go to church they listen to the sermon and they come home then and there they shed all that and they go on living their life as if they lived before but it's a good example

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I think of what happened it is a good example I don't think I know it's a good example of indeed what happens when we only have what they call the near Christianity and many

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Christians are veneer Christians they have a covering which is Christian but the core is not Christian and if the core was

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Christian we would have had a lot more opposition to Darwinism but by the way though those who opposed not only

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Darwinism but those who opposed the Nazi movement were primarily Christians the primary opposition that Germany had was primarily those who were

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Christians and if there were more Christians who spoke up it's often been documented that indeed we wouldn't had a

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Holocaust we wouldn't had a World War two because Christians would have said no we we can't we cannot allow this we cannot accept this to happen but a lot of this happened under the wraps the average person didn't know about many of these things at least until later on in the war and so the government really tried hard to keep it quiet until that later on they got to a couldn't but indeed that's one reason

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I wrote the book called Hitler and the Darwinian a Nazi worldview was indeed I see the same thing to some degree happening today surveys have shown that of Millennials which is a younger generation of Millennials now 51 % do not call themselves

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Christians but 51 % call themselves nuns which means they're no religion but many are atheists or agnostics and so we see the same trends going on today and if you follow especially what's going on at our colleges and universities where some speaker comes to talk about his or her ideas and they have protests and they start fires and they as happened at the

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University of California Berkeley you can see that in so many ways our society is moving away from Christianity and you can see the problems is developing now killings for example in Chicago we have more murders in Chicago than we had

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I understand in the war in Afghanistan so one of my students drew was said he can be sent to Afghanistan and I said we are lucky they could have sent you to Chicago that'd be worse because the number of people dying in Chicago is worse than Afghanistan and he chuckled and he says yeah that's true

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I know so we can see many problems today are a result of loss of our Christian roots and that's why

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I did the book on the Darwin effect and how Darwinism corrodes morality because indeed it's corroded morality and I document that very closely in the one by Joshua Press which by the way all my books are available on Amazon and most any bookstore carries them and good books carries them and Barnes &

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Noble and so they're they're out there and you can also get them through one of my sponsors I have to throw that in there obviously a

35:44

CV bbs .com Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service calm they carry books by Jerry Bergman as well and well thank you

35:58

Charlie Liebert and we hope that you recover rapidly from surgery that is one of the reasons

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Charlie is not in the studio with me today and of course many of you know that my other co -host

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Reverend Buzz Taylor is normally in the studio with me and he is returning to his full -time career after a vacation that he was on so we hope that Buzz can return quickly as our co -host as well

36:27

Charlie you are getting a free copy of this book that we are discussing how

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Darwinian ism or Darwinism corrodes morality and that is compliments of Joshua Press and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com

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who I just mentioned will be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to us so thank you very much for contributing to today's program but by the way

36:56

I keep screwing up the pronunciation are both acceptable pronouncement pronunciations is it

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Darwinism and Darwinian ism are they both acceptable or am I just an idiot yeah no

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Darwinism is the common term but Darwinian ism I guess that would be I actually never thought about that much but you see them both so I guess it doesn't really matter well you've already touched on this but we'll we'll read

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Daniel's question from Bakersfield California Daniel from Bakersfield California says my question for Dr.

37:32

Jerry Berkman is would you say that the popularity of Darwinian evolution has led to the low view of human life we have in our culture today in my opinion there seems to be a correlation between the full acceptance of Darwinian evolution and abortion and assisted suicide yes certainly with abortion there is fact

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I have a chapter on that in the book on how Darwin Darwinism corrodes morality and I show indeed that the arguments they used when the abortion case was before the

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Supreme Court what 30 years ago now close to that when they argued it there was a from the

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University of Michigan the head of the genetics department and he basically argued when abortions are normally performed you're not removing or killing a human you're killing a fish because at that stage according to heckles idea of a

38:22

Darwinism you basically not human you're a fish and they call that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny and he used the example that we used that they used to claim that indeed at that stage we have gill flips let's we have gill flips well we don't have gill flips we don't have gills at that stage and fortunately my biology textbook we use correctly calls them pharyngeal flips pharyngeal cliffs and they're they're folds in the chin area and these are part of the pharyngeal area and they're not gill flips they're not gills they have nothing to do with gills and so that idea was totally wrong and that was popular in the textbooks for many years and now of course we've shown that the drawings that heckle used to support his ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny theory were forgeries they're wrong the actual stages if you get photographs of them are very different than what heckle showed and so he used dishonest pictures to try to convince his idea of ontogeny ontogeny basically what that means is that when we are really really young in the womb we basically are like amoebas and then we evolve into fish then we evolve into amphibians and we evolve into reptiles and we evolve into mammals and then primates and then humans so we go through our evolutionary steps in the womb and that sounds of course ridiculous today but indeed that was believed for many many years in fact that was taught in biology books for many many years and took a secular scientist to examine indeed the animals that heckle used in his drawings to find out to prove indeed that he was totally wrong that they're forgeries and that the we do not go through these various evolutionary stages we are a human from day one we become a zygote we are a human period and there's no question about that if you allow the zygote to develop you're going to end up with a child and adult human so we're not fish we never were fish we never went through that fish stage and the idea that they had for over 100 years is simply wrong and so that's a very good example because indeed

40:29

I think today if the case were to go before the Supreme Court I do not think that they would rule the way they did 40 years ago that they would recognize indeed that at month one two three four and five we are human fully human we're not fish we're not any stage of evolution and therefore the major argument they used quite a few years ago just simply wrong it's simply not true well

40:54

I guess now we know the basis for the classic Don Knotts movie The Incredible Mr.

41:00

Limpet when he became a fish if you recall I don't know if you ever saw that that movie in the 60s dr.

41:06

Bergman but that was a childhood classic of a scientist who became a fish but anyway

41:13

I digress thank you Daniel and Bakersfield California you also have won a free copy of the book we are discussing how

41:23

Darwinianism corrodes morality by Jerry Bridges I'm sorry Jerry Bridges the dear

41:30

Jerry Bridges our late brother in Christ who's now in glory I have interviewed him while he was still with us and your name just looked a lot like his

41:39

Jerry Bergman and that is compliments of Joshua Press and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service who will be shipping that out to you please make sure that we have your full mailing address when you if you could email that to us so we can get that out to you as soon as possible our email address again is

42:04

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and we also have a listener all the way in Slovenia Joe who says please ask

42:18

Dr. Bergman to explain to us the Darwinian evolutionist how the

42:24

Darwinian evolutionists gets around or explains the absence of transitional species in the fossil record it seems to me as others have pointed out that if Darwinian evolution were true we would expect to see lots of transitional species in the fossil record but if I understand correctly there are they are absent what does the fact of their absence tell us about the willingness of unregenerate of the unregenerate to believe and propagate social policies based on a theory that is devoid of the key piece of evidence that would substantiate its claims thank you for your invaluable work and also the key piece of evidence that would demonstrate that it's science at all but anyway a

43:10

Dr. Bergman if you could respond to Joe from Slovenia yeah that's a very good question and Darwin himself asked that and he said why are there not innumerable numbers of fossil transitional fossils and he said there weren't he recognized there weren't and the response today from scientists as well we just got to keep digging we just got to keep looking and we'll find them they're out there but we have to keep looking but some recognize that we've been looking for 150 years and we haven't found what they're expecting at all we have found some which appear to be transitional but if we look at a more carefully we find out that they're not but they recognize that's a huge problem and so their response is is that the one of the latest responses is that what happened is during the transition from one animal type to another it occurred so fast it didn't leave any records of fossil in the fossil record so therefore it's not there because evolution occurred so fast in between the stages so when we're one animal left lots of fossils and when you evolve into another kind of animal it didn't leave very many because we evolved so rapidly as the theory and that of course is a explanation which tries to explain lack of information and you know you can come up with all kinds of reasons for lack of information but and they they believe it so strongly that they have to come up with some explanation and that's the one that they came up with primarily

44:28

Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge came up with that explanation and it's widely accepted but it's not universally accepted because many scientists recognize that what you need is clear evidence of transitional forms and it's just not there and I have actually a book coming out on that should be out any week on the problem of transitional forms and I show indeed that all the transitional forms just are not there and what they're expecting is links between fish and other animals for example or between dinosaurs and other animals and what they find is the first dinosaur is the dinosaur the first amphibian was amphibian the first you know blue jay was a blue jay and so on and so they're finding they're simply not there and they they have a problem when they realize this and that's why some proposed that we evolved from another planet and then we came to the earth is you know in some on some spaceship or some rocket ship which is called the

45:26

Superman hypothesis by the way or we came to the earth as a result of being carried on a meteor or a comet and those are the options that Neil deGrasse

45:36

Tyson talks about but they're clearly ad hoc and they're clearly trying to explain lack of evidence and they are clearly problematic and very hard to give up a theory you believed all your life and and the world around you believes the science believes so you know they're trying to maintain their belief same thing when eugenics they tried to maintain their belief even though it's evidence just wasn't there they for example got a bunch of skeletons from Jews and they the they took the flesh off and they wanted to display these in a museum in Berlin and they were trying to find evidence that these

46:08

Jews were inferior that that's what they called a race then was inferior and they couldn't find any they just couldn't find any evidence that indeed these people were inferior so they rationalized it away well we got we got the wrong set we need to get another hundred somewhere else so we can indeed deflesh these and we can indeed show that they're inferior so you don't find evidence they just keep looking for evidence in other places and that's what they did then and now of course we recognize how only foolish that is but back then they believed it so strongly that they just couldn't see reality it said that to see reality you've got to take off your evolution glasses and look at the world the way it is and when they look at the world through their evolution glasses they can't see the world the way it is and no wonder they just can't see the evidence right in front of them which of course we're talking about now

46:57

I don't want to sound overly sensationalistic here but when

47:03

Joe asks about you know the willingness of the unregenerate to propagate social policies based on theories devoid of any evidence you wonder how much of this is due to demonic influence now

47:22

I am a non charismatic thoroughgoing five -point

47:27

Calvinist I am not one who is prone to sensationalism because I know that the liberals like to laugh at things like that but do you think that that is really a very obvious element of this whole thing because it seems it seems that it has reached a level of insanity that the scientific world has has bought things as gospel that you cannot detract from or you will lose your reputation and livelihood that's true that's a very good point and you certainly wonder if that's the case but by and large

48:03

I think the case is that it's just surrounded by this worldview and they accept it because that's what they're that's what's in their environment and you think it's also like one of the things

48:12

I just said is that they may lose their jobs if they start to question these things yeah that's a big factor in many people and when you get to know people at a personal level you find that many scientists have major doubts about Darwinism but they're not going to voice these publicly because they know it could cause them problems and so you know as they say when you're drinking coffee after work and talking about these things you realize that a lot of people have big problem scientists have big problems with this worldview and but they say you know

48:44

I'm not gonna talk about this to other people because I know they're not gonna be receptive and it may jeopardize my career and so I'll just you know stay in the closet and that's what we call it stay in the closet until later on the closet becomes more open and more accepting but for now a lot just for her to stay in the closet well it's it's one thing that's fascinating to me is that you would think scientists would be absolutely titillated and excited when they hear about tissue being found on fossils and so on you know in relation to dinosaurs and so on why is it that they are rejecting these things or or not really treating them with the enthusiasm that they deserve well they realize they have a big problem with this of course finding what they claim is 65 year old million year old fossils dinosaur fossils and you break them open and you dissolve the bone away with acids and then you find they have soft tissue them but what looks like looks like blood cells and DNA and so on you wonder how in the world that these 65 million year old body parts could be preserved for that many years well they're trying to come up with reasons and I think it's the same thing we end up with in the other areas we talked about that they're looking for reasons but they can't find any so eventually you think they're going to have to say well maybe these bones are not 65 million years old they found certain ones in Madagascar but now they found them in the

50:17

United States and there's been dozens of studies which replicated the original findings indeed they found that dinosaurs even in North Dakota not dinosaurs indeed can yield soft tissue blood vessels and blood cells and so on and it takes a while before they realize the implications of what they found and they're now trying to come up with reasons for what they found but I don't think they're going to be able to and they're gonna have to admit that you know this appears that these dinosaurs are not as old as they think they are wasn't some female paleontologist like ridiculed or or in some way having her career jeopardized who actually was a one of the discoverers of the tissue yeah

51:04

Mary Schweitzer was one of the discoverers and probably what 10 12 years ago now she'd made this discovery and there was criticism a lot of criticism but when they replicated her studies and they have many times as I mentioned when they replicate her studies they found the same thing and so she's accurate what she's saying is indeed valid and as we have now

51:25

I'm not sure how many but 50 100 or so studies have found the same thing

51:30

I mean you can't deny it if she says you do this and dissolve the bone away with chemicals you find this and I do it and I find it you do it and you find it somebody else does it and they find the same thing you can't deny it anymore you have to recognize indeed that that's fact and therefore they're still grappling with it but eventually

51:49

I think they're gonna have to get to the point that indeed they recognize their theory it's got a big problem and they have to deal with it in some way although right now they're just shoving it under the rug and they're saying well we'll figure it out it's a problem but we'll we'll work on it we'll figure out what's going on but they're not so far and I don't think they will although we'll wait and see but it doesn't look promising for their side it looks very promising for our side yeah amazing that they would be shoving that or sweeping that under the rug absolutely amazing that you would think that they would be totally amazed and fascinated and excited oh this is really ridiculous but we're gonna be going to a break right now by the way thank you

52:28

Joe in Slovenia and thank you for providing us with an American address where Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship you your free copy of how

52:37

Darwinianism how Darwinism I keep screwing that up how Darwinism corrodes morality by Jerry Bergman and thank you very much for contributing to today's program that will be in the mail to you shortly so keep your eye open for a package from CVBBS .com

52:56

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service calm and once again we thank

53:01

Joshua Press for providing these books for us today to give away to you the listeners and we're going to a break right now if you'd like to join us on the air as well our email address is

53:14

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com CHRIS ARNZEN at gmail .com

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53:33

Darwinism corrodes morality tired of bop store

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Chris Arden's and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour to go is dr.

01:02:50

Jerry Bergman he has nine degrees including seven graduate degrees has studied for his past college work in biology chemistry psychology and evaluation and research he's a prolific writer a teacher of biology chemistry and biochemistry at Northwest State in Archbold Ohio and we are discussing his book how

01:03:13

Darwinism corrodes morality if you'd like to join us on the air with a question our email address is

01:03:19

Chris Arden at gmail .com Chris Arden at gmail .com and there are a number of you still waiting to have your questions asked and answered so we will get to you as soon as we can before I return to our discussion

01:03:33

I want to remind you of a couple of things first of all the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology is going to be held

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01:04:02

Dan Doriani Richard Phillips Karl Truman and others and the theme is

01:04:08

Reformation Recovering the Essence of the Gospel once again that's

01:04:13

April 28th through the 30th at Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania a suburb of Philadelphia for more details go to Alliancenet .org

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01:08:35

Jerry Bergman on how Darwinianism or Darwinism corrodes morality and we have

01:08:44

Jerry in Charlestown New Hampshire who has a question he says when

01:08:51

I have talked to friends who embrace Darwinism regarding their foundations for morality their inevitable appeal is to moral relativism what

01:09:02

I have tried to gently show to these friends is that no one functionally lives that way for instance if one's child was being murdered before their eyes no one would say

01:09:12

I find this personally morally objectionable no they would claim it would be absolutely wrong no matter the culture no matter how many other people believe it to be right doesn't this moral outrage reveal that we are indeed made in the image of God and that God's law is written on our hearts as Paul says in Romans 2 dr.

01:09:35

Bergman good question and that's why a lot of people reject Darwinism and the worldview the

01:09:40

Darwinian worldview and also they accept Christianity because they recognize that indeed we seem to have a innate sense of what's moral and what's right and what's wrong and this innate sense now of course part of it's the environment no doubt part of it's our culture our parents and so on but virtually every culture we know has this sense and therefore the values among virtually every culture in the world they've studied are pretty pretty close pretty similar in fact you have to hard work hard very hard to overcome this dislike of doing things like killing children it's a difficult even

01:10:19

Nazi Germany the leaders said that you know this is something we can be proud of that we overcame this tremendous resistance against doing what we're doing but yet we're doing what we're doing in the end for the good of the

01:10:31

German people that were eliminating inferior people and they likened it to a surgeon a surgeon goes into a body removes a defective organ a cancer for example and it does that in the end of helping the patient well of course we recognize that but they saw the same thing we're eliminating these inferior races these human weeds we have to do that to preserve the purity of the

01:10:54

German race and it's difficult but we've done it and we've killed millions of people and we ought to be proud of what we've done that's what

01:11:00

Heinrich Himmler and a few others have said of course today we recognize the problem of that but they recognize that that was very difficult to overcome the innate moral sense that people had and that's ironically why they developed the gas chambers they used to basically when they went into a country when they invaded

01:11:16

Ukraine for example or Russia they would go into the country and they would have these killing squads that would kill people such as Jews and Slavics and people they thought were inferior and this bothered a lot of the

01:11:29

German soldiers and the government recognized that this is a problem to go into these countries and cold -blood murder children women and and so on innocent people and so this is why they decided to develop the camp system where the individuals were murdered inside the camp in the gas chambers and that was a solution in fact that was determined in a suburb of Berlin about 1944

01:11:56

I believe the council of one say it's called it was a mansion that used to be owned by a

01:12:02

Jewish family I was told and they met there to decide what are we going to do with this problem that we have so many

01:12:08

Germans are very upset with what we're doing and so they said well let's remove it from the field let's bring these people to the camps and then let's systematically murder them inside the camps and that was the quote the final solution that's what they finally decided to do and so it's very clear that as you think of your own life when you were very very young you knew certain things were wrong nobody told you they were wrong but you knew they were wrong from this moral sense that we have and that's one thing that impressed

01:12:37

C .S. Lewis why would we have this moral sense how could evolution explain this well they couldn't and so C .S.

01:12:43

Lewis recognized that indeed the moral sense must be God -given and therefore that's why we have it and that's why it's universal and that's why it takes a lot of effort a lot of training a lot of experience to overcome this and why many people

01:12:57

I've talked to people who were involved in the military for example they say you know even after 30 years of being involved in the military you still are both you to kill the enemy even though you know it's the enemy and you have to but on the other hand many people never really overcome this innate sense that they have that this is wrong and you have many people who come back from war and then they end up suffering from the experience of that and you have many people who suffer from post -traumatic stress syndrome and a lot of it is as a result of basically killing people which they never really overcome and which may affect them for the rest of their lives so we have many innate moral values which

01:13:38

God put into us because he knew that we would we would violate them freely if indeed we could and of course people have to work hard and some people it's easier than others to overcome this moral sense but indeed they they have they realize they have to work hard to overcome this moral sense is

01:13:55

Heinrich Himmler recognized well Jerry thank you so much for contributing to today's show with your excellent question you have also won a free copy of the book by the other

01:14:08

Jerry Jerry Bergman how Darwinism corrodes morality and please make sure that we have your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you free of charge at CVBBS .com

01:14:23

so keep your eye out for a with a return address on the envelope or the package that says

01:14:30

CVBBS .com for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service dot -com

01:14:36

CVBBS .com and let's see here we have

01:14:43

Scott who says that he lives about 20 miles from Northwest State College and he says that's in Bryan Ohio and he says please ask your guest how he personally feels about the school of thought that suggests a separation of biblical interpretation from the book of nature that's a good thought of course as I teach in a secular college

01:15:12

I have to be very careful that I present information which is appropriate in that venue and of course

01:15:17

I don't talk about the Christian things with people that's unfortunate this country we can't and of course

01:15:22

I try to scrupulously obey the requirements there and I'd be nice if we could but on the other hand that's not what the law says and one way of dealing with that is to change the law and I noticed when

01:15:35

I go to Canada to speak that they know they do not have this requirement and I won chemistry professor

01:15:41

I was with when I was in a major Canadian University he said I open all my classes in chemistry with the

01:15:47

Bible Scripture and I say isn't that a problem isn't that going to cause a problem he says well no there's no problem here they students like it as a whole even the students that aren't supportive of the

01:15:57

Christian message like it by and large so it's not a problem there but it is a problem here and so what we have to do is change the law so that indeed the law allows us to be more open about what we believe but on the other hand you have to be very sensitive to students and what they feel and be very careful about presenting things that will set them you need to help the students grow in the field you're teaching and if you say things that upsetting of course that can impede you're trying to help students grow into a particular science or a particular discipline and so I'm very careful and I don't mention that at all

01:16:32

I did have one person a long time ago asked me if I attended church and I kind of hemmed and hawed and I think

01:16:39

I turned red and I said yes but I've never had that happen again and so I think about it maybe

01:16:44

I shouldn't have said well that's really not an appropriate question but that really illustrates the problem we have if you're active

01:16:52

Christian in the academic environment today and so I'm again very careful of not bridging that that chasm and again that's too bad we have that but on the other hand it takes some court decisions to be able to change that on the other hand you don't want to go to a biology class and get someone to lecture about things that are not related to biology you don't want to go to a math class and have someone talk about you know the election which

01:17:19

I know happens but you wouldn't go to a math class to learn about math not to learn about whether Trump should or should not be president and so you have to be careful about talking about political things and other things and so I'm very careful that in classroom

01:17:33

I appear neutral and I help the students grow in understanding but you have to be very careful that you don't indoctrinate students and either side

01:17:42

I mean I don't like people indoctrinating students in atheism and I can see that there's concerns about me attempting to indoctrinate students in my worldview so we need to help them understand pose questions help them think about issues but clearly we should not indoctrinate that's not the function of colleges and the professor

01:18:00

I mentioned who teaches chemistry he also does not indoctrinate although there the line is a lot fuzzier in Canada but on the other hand he feels it's not really helpful to as they say bash him over the head with the

01:18:13

Bible that doesn't help them understand the message now if he sees philosophy or you teach world religions and of course that's a different area where your subject matter is indeed related to this area and students expect you to talk about this in those classes and therefore it's less of a problem but I don't teach primarily in that area so I teach the sciences so I have to stick very close to indeed the information which we know from scientific investigation yes that's that's completely acceptable and understandable and right if you're being if you're hired by a secular institution or a an institution that does not have an open religious bias then obviously you would be stealing from your employer if you were to start to teach theology during those courses that you were not that you were hired to teach if you were teaching over another subject and so on so that's completely obviously the only the only time that that is ever sin is when you are denying the faith or when you are lying to your students teaching them things that you know to be untrue and so on yeah and I try to give them ideas and say well you know this is one idea and what's your thoughts

01:19:29

I try to draw students in I'm not one I like to stand up there in lecture for two hours I I prefer to have discussions debates etc with students and so I deliberately say things which might be a little bit controversial and I say okay that's one idea what do you think what's what's your thoughts what's your opinion and so I try to draw students in effectively and so far

01:19:49

I'm not aware of any concerns have been raised in this area and I encourage students to you know if I say something that's inappropriate let me know so I can be aware

01:19:58

I show films at every now and then short films I try to 12 minutes because you know students after a while it feeds the purpose but short films clips

01:20:07

I show and I ask them if there's any problems with this let me know and typically if there's one person that objects to the film

01:20:14

I don't show it again I have enough material that if one person objects I don't need to show it again

01:20:19

I just prefer to show films and that indeed I have unanimous or very very close to unanimous agreement that indeed the film is worthwhile and useful so there's enough material out there that I can pretty effectively stay away from material that may cause a even a slight problem

01:20:35

I don't want to upset any student and I want to be very sensitive to their needs and and I consciously try to be aware of where they're coming from and indeed what their worldview is but I do raise questions which they hopefully think about which will help them think about some of these issues in fact your employers are to be commended because in this world where as we were already saying people who are in any way against the status quo of science the what is acceptable in the secular scientific community they very often have their careers destroyed and their reputations maligned and it's quite a commendable thing that they've they've hired someone knowing that you are not according to their actually reminds me of another question is

01:21:38

Darwin is Darwinism basically on a steady level of acceptance in the scientific world or is there any any noticeable decline within the ranks of secular science in regard to the acceptance of this theory that seems to have zero evidence for much of what if not most of what it promotes well there is more and more and I'm becoming aware of more and more people who really are raising major questions about the idea and I think it's only a matter of time before indeed it's overthrown it not be in my lifetime or may not be soon but on the other hand more and more people are becoming aware of their problems and there's conventions and conferences and books written by evolutionists who basically bring out their concerns that they have with the theory and so these concerns are being talked about in fact they're having conventions in various cities which indeed talk about the problems of Darwinism so they are aware of it but this doesn't mean they're going to give up that worldview and it is a worldview we're talking about it's the way they see the world and they're aware of the problems but they still accept the worldview and to overcome a worldview takes quite a bit and so many are still supportive but they recognize there are certainly problems in the in the idea like I mentioned

01:23:01

Neil deGrasse Tyson he spends not his time talking about a biogenesis on the earth the origin of life on the earth but talking about a biogenesis somewhere else on the stars some stars some planet far away and so you can see why he'd spend so much time he's concerned that indeed we have a problem with origin of spontaneous generation of life on the earth and therefore he moves in somewhere else but as I said earlier that doesn't solve the problem by the way

01:23:28

Scott in Bryan Ohio you have won the final copy that we have available of how

01:23:35

Darwinism corrodes morality so please make sure that we have your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you and so keep your eye open for a package from CVBBS .com

01:23:49

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service .com we also want to make sure we thank

01:23:54

Joshua Press again for providing us with these books and their website by the way is

01:24:00

Joshua Press .com Joshua Press .com if you want to see anything else that they have available in print so we hope to be working with Joshua Press for a long time to come and promote other authors that they have

01:24:16

I know that my friend Dr. Michael Haken who I've had on this program a number of times is one of the authors they publish and that is a very positive sign for me but I forgot to ask you earlier

01:24:34

I'm assuming you are a young earth creationist as I am just because of the fact that I saw your bio on the creation ministries a website from Australia but I have a big problem with the old age view but I look at the main evidence for me for the young earth view at least with humans is that no way that humans could be more than 6 ,000 years old because mutations are accumulating we know that and when you look at the data you can see indeed that we're getting more and more mutations and there's no way that that mutational degeneration would not occur if we were a hundred thousand years old because we would be extinct if indeed we were that old so the evidence for humans and all life by the way it's clearly that indeed life simply could not be that old and so since I'm not a geophysicist

01:25:26

I'm a biologist I I look at the evidence from biology and that convinces me indeed that life could not be that old and in fact you may have stolen the thunder of one of our listeners

01:25:35

Pastor Sterling Vanderwercker of Shepherds Fellowship in Greensboro North Carolina writes what other empirical evidence in genetics point toward a limit to the length of time for human life considering your prior comment on the approximately 100 mutations per generation thanks for the great show brothers is there anything else you care to add to what the

01:26:01

Sterling Pastor Sterling has said oh you could add a lot and I'll just give you one brief example we have what they call a repair system now evolution works by accumulation of mutations so evolution needs lots of mutations of course you know they have a lot but they're almost always near neutral or deleterious but we have repair system when mutations occur even favorable ones they're repaired like ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time they're repaired so how could evolution explain the fact that there is a complex system in fact there's twelve that we know of complex systems which repair mistakes so if evolution is a result of mistakes how would you explain the fact that we have a repair system that repairs those mistakes so let's say there's a mutation that occurs which is beneficial well the chances are very very high that that's going to be repaired well that would work against evolution against the theory and of course how could you explain the repair system which which cannot function until all the parts are there because it's a complex system and when you cover this in class the students get lost and I explain well you know you have to kind of realize

01:27:07

I'm trying to simplify it make it as basic as I can but on the other hand they recognize that indeed it's very complex and they wonder how in the world this could come about because this opposes

01:27:18

Darwinism and of course I let them think about it I don't give them any answers I don't tell them what I feel but I help them understand the repair system and it's complex indeed it's not going to work and tell you every single part that's an idea called irreducible complexity which says basically that systems require more than one part to work which many systems do they will not work by definition if they lose that one part now that doesn't mean that a system can't lose a part it means there's an irreducible core and for them to function they have to have a certain minimum number of parts and we know it's a body they have to have clearly a certain minimum number of parts and we know for example if a mutation damages one of these parts then it either lethal to the organism or that part does not develop that whole system does not develop and that could mean for example we have a repair system that is triggered by a protein called p53 and a p53 is damaged the repair system doesn't work and as a result people are more far more prone to develop cancer so that illustrates that this part is necessary for this part of the repair system to work and the idea of irreducible complexity is it's obvious that certain things you have to have so many parts a watch a mousetrap no matter what it we're talking about you have to have so many parts before it works there's a certain minimum number of parts for humans to work of course you have to have a heart you have to have kidneys you have to have lungs and so on and you can't live without those and you can live without certain things like fingers and so on but there are certain parts irreducible core you cannot live without and that's true with the repair system as well well thank you pastor

01:29:01

Sterling sorry we don't have any books to give to you today but I hope that dr.

01:29:08

Jerry Bergman returns to our program often since he's quite a prolific writer and perhaps the next time we have him on God willing and if he is if dr.

01:29:17

Bergman is willing as well perhaps you can win a book next time written by him but we want to also thank you pastor

01:29:26

Sterling Vanderwercker of Shepard Fellowship in Greensboro North Carolina for the recent donation that we got in the mail from you and thank you so much it means more to me than I can convey to you in the

01:29:41

English language and please keep praying for iron sharpens iron radio that we may have many more years of life before us so that we can continue to bless folks like you with the guests that we interview daily on this on this show we're going to go to our final break right now and if you would like to join us on the air with a question now is your time to do so because we are running out of time only got less than a half hour left now so our email address is

01:30:13

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back with dr.

01:30:19

Jerry Bergman and how Darwinism corrodes morality one sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers

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01:36:41

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01:37:16

Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the previous 90 minutes in the next half hour to come has been and will continue to be dr.

01:37:25

Jerry Bergman and we are discussing his book how Darwinism corrodes morality if you'd like to join us on the air for the question our email address is

01:37:34

Chris Arns and at gmail .com Chris Arns and at gmail .com

01:37:40

CJ in Lindenhurst Long Island New York asks how have some figures that our audience may or may not recognize that had prominent roles in society and reshaping our history but negatively affected by Darwin by Darwinism I'm sorry and one name that you rarely hear in discussion is

01:38:10

Havelock Ellis are you familiar with this figure and what can you tell us about Havelock Ellis became a

01:38:18

Darwinist and eugenicist and he was one of the main persons behind the so -called free love movement he felt that we can have more than one car we can have more than one house we can have more than one pet why can't we have more than one person we love we have we have sex with so he really pushed that and he practiced that himself much of his life back him and Margaret Sanger who was the founder of the birth control movement in this country and founder of Planned Parenthood today it's called

01:38:45

Planned Parenthood they were lovers among others and so he was quite infamous very well known writer and his books that he wrote wrote like number of books about sex the books that he wrote became very popular and very prominent and he was a major figure in the conversion of the one man one woman one relationship and no promiscuity and no adultery etc he was very influential in breaking down most barriers which we can see common problem in our society around us so him and many others back almost every major literary figure the past century or so was influenced by Darwinism I don't can't name one that wasn't so you're saying this individual is actually a lover of Margaret Sanger well he had a relationship with Margaret Sanger that's what

01:39:42

I meant was the one who of course started basically the birth birth control movement and she was really she was eugenicist as well and she also talked about we need to reduce the number of inferior races and therefore she had her birth control clinics were founded primarily in poor neighborhoods primarily black neighborhoods in fact today they're still found primarily in black neighborhoods and she was very concerned about reducing the black population because she felt that blacks were inferior and therefore they the number should be reduced and she felt one of the most humane ways of doing this was to basically encourage black women to practice birth control in fact she recruited black pastors to be able to do this and she wrote quite a bit about the eugenics movement and her support of it and she's pretty open in what she wanted to do although today it's not talked about a lot because of course that Planned Parenthood not exactly as proud of her past but interesting that many well -known people saw

01:40:42

Margaret Sanger as a hero of the women's movement but in essence she was not because she indeed advocated practices which hurt women as well as men after all half of all births that are prevented births that result in abortion there are women half of all abortions are women and therefore certainly is not a friend of those people who value life yes well a better way of putting that Planned Parenthood is embarrassed by her her ideology and background is that they intentionally hide it and deceive the public because they promote her as a hero very energetically and unwaveringly and unabashedly and still have a

01:41:33

Margaret Sanger's award and in fact Hillary Clinton very proudly accepted that award among other people but this woman it's amazing how people either are ignorant of this fact or are just unwilling to accept it and it's amazing also that you very very rarely hear about this in the media you hear it mentioned once in a while but not even on Fox News or some conservative media outlets you hardly ever hear that this woman was an avowed racist she had

01:42:07

Nazis writing for her periodicals prior to World War two in fact it's interesting that I have heard that that Nazi Germany and Hitler himself learned much about eugenics from Long Island New York where I am from because of the eugenics laboratory there have you heard of this eugenics laboratory oh yeah

01:42:34

Cold Spring Harbor yeah yeah I was raised about a half hour from Cold Spring maybe 25 minutes from Cold Spring Harbor and that that laboratory still exists but they it is not a eugenics laboratory and if you go to if you go to their website and you do some tricks here and there it's not easy to find but you can find there some articles on their dark history where they openly are ashamed of that aspect of their background saying nothing of abortion of course yeah and tell our listeners a little bit more about eugenics because they hear this word and it's just kind of perhaps flying over their heads yeah eugenics the main aspect that we focused on today for a number of reasons is elimination of the

01:43:21

Jews and they thought the Jews was a race inferior race and we tend to forget the fact that it wasn't just the

01:43:28

Jews but it was gypsies it was what they call Romani it was Ukrainians it was Slavics it was just about everybody except Aryans and Aryans they define basically as German or Scandinavian and so it would include

01:43:41

Hispanics it would include people from South America it would include American Indians it would include well pretty much the whole world population and now

01:43:50

Hitler realized and his minions realized that you're not going to be able to fight a war against 90 % of the world's population but they thought we'll get the

01:43:59

Jews first then we'll get the Romani and the gypsies and then we'll get the

01:44:05

Slavics and the goal was to make slaves at first and eventually eliminate the Slavics in fact they killed more

01:44:11

Slavic people Poles specifically then they did Jews and so they had a world goal to eliminate what they thought were inferior races and again we find that today ludicrous but we stress the

01:44:22

Jews which we should but on the other hand we should stress what the goals were was clearly eugenics clearly racism and clearly many many people besides the

01:44:31

Jews the Jews is only the first step and that's because there's many Jews of course in Germany and I should stress it wasn't religion it was specifically

01:44:41

Jewish background there were no small number of Lutheran ministers who were

01:44:47

Jewish in background their father or mother or grandfather or grandfather was Jewish and these were sent to the camps as well so they didn't care if you're a

01:44:56

Lutheran minister they didn't care what you believe they didn't care if you're a Christian they cared if you had a German Jewish background or just a

01:45:04

Jewish background would do actually and that's what they looked at and that's basically who they sent to the camp so Lisa Minor for example was a well -known professor a well -known physicist who actually was very important in developing incoming bomb and she was an active

01:45:20

Lutheran a committed Lutheran but her I think her father was Jewish and therefore she managed to get out they told her you know you better leave because you're in line for the camps and so she managed to leave before she could be killed but she went to Sweden and ironically when she was in Sweden was where they discovered the process which eventually led to the atomic bomb and so ironically many of the leading scientists that developed the atomic bomb were from Germany and so if Hitler didn't have his war against the

01:45:52

Jews ethnic Jews by the way then probably Germany would develop the atomic bomb in fact if you look at well

01:45:59

Albert Einstein was German he was important Lisa Minor I just mentioned Leo Szilard was important and he was also a

01:46:07

German Jew he was Hungarian Jew sorry and so many of the leading scientists that ended up developing the atomic bomb were indeed

01:46:15

German Jews or at least had Jewish ethnicity which was of course the concern of the the

01:46:21

Nazis so in many ways they cut their own foot off because they could have conquered the world if they would have let these scientists develop the atomic bomb if they only didn't have a war against ethnic

01:46:32

Jews then they probably would have and we now instead of speaking English we'd be speaking

01:46:38

German well thank God for that that we are not if we would have survived by the way he did he objected to Americans because Americans inter mix so much with Indians and with so many other ethnic groups that Hitler thought the

01:46:55

Americans were no longer pure enough Germans and so therefore he was concerned about America because well we were

01:47:02

Mongols were or a mixture and he wanted essentially pure German of course that's ridiculous there is no pure German Germans have been intermixing with groups around them for centuries so to find a pure German in fact

01:47:15

Hitler himself some evidence indicates that he was not a pure German the evidence is and this is of course controversial but evidence is is that he was fathered by a rough child and that actually one of the rough child was his father and the indication is that he was fathered by that and he therefore the belief is he destroyed all the evidence for example where the area where he was born where the gravestones and so on were he made sure that that was destroyed so that indeed they could not find any evidence of his paternity so and again that's controversial but I think there's some decent evidence that indeed indicates that he was fathered by a rough child which is was a

01:47:57

Jew and so he was hypocritical in his war against the ethnic

01:48:02

Jews yes in fact it's a matter of record it's not even theory that there are even a number of Jews in the

01:48:11

American Nazi Party founded by George Lincoln Rockwell very strange phenomena of course they were not openly identifying themselves or revealing the truth about themselves but even secular historians are aware of that fact and of course you have the the fact that I have been utterly convinced that the

01:48:34

Nazi Party especially in its early stages was rampant with homosexuals active homosexuals and of course you have

01:48:44

Ernst Röhm being the most notorious open unashamed homosexual pederast being one of the leaders in the earlier part of the

01:48:53

Nazi Party's history there are some books that claim that I have them

01:48:59

I haven't read them yet to be honest but later on of course the problem was is that they had to replace the 20 million or so Germans that died in the army and so concern later on became with homosexuality that indeed they were not having big families and so it's kind of mixed like you brought out is kind of a mixed bag and a cast some some claim

01:49:18

I'm not sure if this is true but again some claim that that was true with Hitler he never did marry until the day before he committed suicide and his relationship with Eva Brown was pretty bad he really mistreated her in fact there's quite a bit of evidence that he was grossly abusive toward her but she stuck toward him toward the bitter end and and they ended up committing suicide together of course and you wonder why any woman would stick with a man who was so abusive and very very problematic and that's one theory at least of course there's all kinds of theories about Hitler and they're a dime a dozen as they say but indeed

01:50:01

I think that's one possibility among others that indeed he himself was oriented toward that lifestyle we have

01:50:09

RJ in White Plains New York who wants to know does Alfred Kinsey fit into the mix of popular figures who are revered as heroes who are actually in many ways monsters who were affected by Darwin Darwinism yeah he does he's a central person that converted basically

01:50:32

Judeo -Christian morality in this country to the problem we have today especially among certain minority groups where about 70 % of the children are born out of wedlock and if you read the story of Alfred Kinsey it's really a problem because he exploited students graduate students other professors he was very promiscuous with males and with females and he filmed a lot of this so we have photographs in fact we know that he had relations with many of his students as well as many of his co -workers many of his co -authors and that's been very well documented and today there's in universities for good reason there's no way he could get away with what he did back then but back then in many ways they were more liberal or at least regarding this issue and he was not only into promiscuous sexual behavior but he was also into what we call saddle masochism and his book sexuality of a human male and sexuality human female he documents this his findings but his findings were ludicrous because he interviewed a lot of inmates he interviewed a lot of populations that indeed are not representative of the

01:51:40

American population and so is scientifically his work is not just worthless but worse than worthless and his lifestyle alone is pretty apparent many of horror

01:51:54

I'm sorry abhorrent even to people today that recognize the abuse of women especially in colleges and that's why we have this movement to ensure that exploitation of women no longer occurs at colleges and universities and and they've developed some good rules which indeed prevent the abuse that occurred with Kinsey and when

01:52:15

Kinsey was a young he died quite young he had a lot of health problems which doesn't surprise me but his work was supposed to be scientific but now we know it today from reevaluation of his work that it was anything but scientific it was like I say worse than helpful it was it was really irresponsible the conclusions he came to and you just read his sexuality and human male you can understand that his data is totally completely wrong and biased but what he was trying to say was that if behavior which we consider abnormal is done by a large number of people therefore it couldn't be abnormal must be normal so he was trying to justify behavior which we then and today regard as abnormal he was trying to justify this by data by saying well 80 % of us do it so therefore it must be okay that's interesting that's interesting because I organized a debate a number of years ago in Amityville Long Island New York not far from the aforementioned

01:53:15

Cold Spring Harbor lab and this was between David Silverman the president the current president of Madeline Murray O 'Hare's

01:53:24

American Atheist Organization and my friend dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the debate theme was is the

01:53:34

New Testament evil and the basically

01:53:40

David Silverman was saying that morality because he knew he had to in some way borrow from a

01:53:47

Christian worldview to even have a concept of morality and good and evil and so he basically admitted that in his worldview whatever the majority of people are doing in any particular geographic region in any particular era of time that is what is moral and that is what is good and he saw when dr.

01:54:13

white said to this Jewish atheist David Silverman so that if you were being walked through the gates of a death camp by Nazi soldiers is the worst thing that you could possibly say about this event is that you find it personally objectionable and he said he admitted it he said yes which was kind of kind of a breathtaking part of the debate but it shows you the insanity that these this worldview leads to well

01:54:46

I want to make sure before we run out of time and I know already that we definitely have to have you back not only to continue a discussion of this book but to delve into your other many books and you have an open door here as far as I'm concerned if you're interested in coming back but I want you to summarize what you most want to have etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners right now well the thing

01:55:09

I want to stress is that the idea of Darwinism and let me define that is from the goo to you by way of the zoo the idea of Darwinism and it's a worldview it's the way they see the world there are major major problems with that and that idea has caused huge problems in our society which

01:55:25

I document in several of my books not just Nazism but also other problems like the free love movement and promiscuity movement and so on and so we need to understand that this worldview the way they see the world has been a problem and we need to look at the evidence and I stress

01:55:43

I read about a book a week so I try to be well read and what I'm saying is that in order to find out what reality is in order to see reality you have to read read read read read both sides read what this person says what that person says and when you carefully evaluate both sides you can see indeed that the facts clearly come in favor of one side and not other side and it's not functional for me to tell people which side

01:56:10

I'm on although I think that's pretty apparent from the interview but on the other hand when you look carefully at the evidence

01:56:16

I find most people who look carefully at the evidence they in the long run they agree with me and so many people

01:56:23

I say well yeah look at this side and they say well no I'm not gonna look at that side because I don't accept it well look at this side and then make a judgment no no why should

01:56:31

I bother reading stuff I disagree with well I read stuff I disagree with all the time and doing that helps me understand that the side

01:56:39

I support is indeed supported by the facts and therefore I can be more confident of what

01:56:44

I have to say in my conclusions because I've looked at both sides I understand both sides in fact as a

01:56:51

Christian you have an advantage of looking at the other side because then you understand the evidence for Christianity and you're not accepting it just because this is what you were told as a child there's a book called the book and a film called the case for faith which is coming out good coming out soon

01:57:06

I should say and that does a good job showing I haven't seen the film yet but I've read the book does a good job indeed showing that Lee Strobel became a

01:57:16

Christian as a result of the facts that he learned by his research and he was an atheist at one time his wife challenged him and he through doing the research he indeed saw that indeed the case for Christ is solid and that's what the film is about which

01:57:31

I haven't seen yet but I plan to soon so I'd encourage your readers if they're viewers if they're listeners if they're not a reader well to be a reader and if you just aren't then at least watch the film well

01:57:45

I want to quickly because you mentioned Lee Strobel I just want to plug another conference Lee Strobel is not going to be at it but he is making public promotions for it he is enthusiastically supporting the conference and that is the

01:57:58

New York apologetics conference at the Smithtown Christian School in Suffolk County Long Island New York this is under the theme will you survive the culture and the speakers include

01:58:12

Greg Koukl Frank Turek and Mary Jo Sharp that's the dare to defend conference being orchestrated by New York apologetics my friend

01:58:22

Anthony Eugenio and his colleague Nick Mitchell are running this conference and if you want to attend this conference which is

01:58:30

Friday April 28th 7 to 9 p .m. and Saturday April 29th 9 a .m.

01:58:35

to 4 p .m. go to New York apologetics calm New York apologetics calm and that's

01:58:41

New York those two words are spelled out do not abbreviate them New York apologetics calm

01:58:47

I want to make sure that our listeners have the Joshua Press website it's

01:58:53

Joshua Press calm Joshua Press calm who have published this book that we have been discussing do you have any other contact information that you care to provide dr.

01:59:02

Bergman well if I my home email is Jerry Bergman 30 at yahoo .com

01:59:10

if any readers want to listeners want to email me that's fine and I can help them with whatever concerns they have

01:59:17

Jerry Bergman 30 at yahoo .com that's my home email and that's where I try to deal with things that are related to my interest in this area amen and I want everybody to have a safe joyful and glorious Easter weekend and I hope you have a blessed time at your

01:59:36

Good Friday services if you are attending them I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater