April 14, 2017 Show with Jerry Bergman on “How Darwinism Corrodes Morality”

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this 14th day of April 2017.

We are supposed to be interviewing Jerry Bergman today, Dr. Jerry Bergman, who is

an author, including the book that we are supposed to be addressing today, How Darwinism

Corrodes Morality, but we have not yet heard from Dr. Bergman for some reason, so I'm going to go to an

early station break, and if you could be patient while we try to locate Dr. Bergman, that would be very

much appreciated, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question about

Darwinian evolution and how Darwinianism, or should I say Darwinism,

corrodes morality, you can email us at chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, that's chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

and give us a question, and please include your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be right back after these messages, hopefully with Dr. Bergman.

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Welcome back and I believe we do have Dr. Jerry Bergman on the air.

Dr. Jerry Bergman has nine degrees including seven graduate degrees, has studied for his past

college work in biology, chemistry, psychology, and evaluation and research.

A prolific writer and teacher of biology, chemistry, and biochemistry at Northwest State

in Archbold, Ohio, and he's discussing his book, How

Darwinism Corrodes Morality, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the

very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. Jerry Bergman.

Thank you very much.

It's great to be here.

And sorry for the confusion.

I don't know what has happened with the miscommunication, but I'm glad that

we were having God smile upon us today and he worked things out.

Okay, that's good.

Yes.

Well, first of all, before I even get into the subject of Darwinism and the book,

I want to get some background from you.

I want to hear about how you were raised, what kind of religious background you were from, if any, and how

our sovereign Lord eventually, through his providence, drew you to himself and saved you.

Yeah, the.

Important thing in my life was, partially my background, of course, my father was an atheist, and my mother

was, well, she switched back and forth to several different faiths, but developed Alzheimer's relatively early,

and so the main thing that I'm an

atheist as well as my dad, and that was a lot to do with the influence of education.

I was a science major for many of my degrees, and when you study science, basically the background of science

is Darwinism, and I naively accepted that, and as time went on, though, I began to question it more

and more and realize that there are big problems with Darwinism, and when you realize that, you realize that if

Darwinism doesn't explain how we got here, then what does?

You really only have two choices.

Either we were made by God, intelligent designer, or we were made by time, chance,

unforeseen occurrence, in other words, contagious, so when I remove one

possibility, there was really only one basic one left, and that was, indeed, we have a designer, and then

my feeling was I had an obligation to find out who that designer is, and, of course, I explored different

traditions, and the main one that I explored, as others have as well, by the way, there are many people who have

gone around the same path that I did, and I explored the evidence in, of course,

so many, many ways that, indeed, is the Word of God, and, indeed,

the Word of God leads me into Christianity, and, basically, it's like

watering over, going to the end of the dam,

and, finally, they all being

born again, so you make that commitment, you make that jump, and, indeed, I did that, but as a result

of, in my case, and many cases, a lot of study, research, and reading, I did not have a Pauline

on the road to Damascus, from people I know, I find most people don't.

They, basically, because they do talk about the importance of the evidence and

the importance of being able to defend the faith that is within us, and, therefore, I stress,

since my conversion, apologetics, that, indeed,

apologetics, understanding the evidence for Christianity, is the key way most of us

become convinced of, indeed, the reality of Christ and His sacrifice for us, and the

basic Christian message.

Well, praise God for that testimony.

It's refreshing to hear that science actually led you to believe in a

Creator, and, eventually, the Lord used that to bring you to your knees and cry out to Jesus

Christ for your eternal life, and the reason why I'm saying how refreshing that is, is,

obviously, we have heard stories about many, many

folks, perhaps, especially young people, who, in either high school or college,

may begin their entrance into school as Bible believers because of their

upbringing.

They may even be Old Earth, I'm sorry, they may even be Young Earth creationists,

and they leave school being Darwinians.

They totally abandon what they were raised with, because they believe

that Darwinism is the only intellectual, sophisticated,

scientific, and true explanation for the origins of the Earth, and it's

absolutely amazing to me how this has become, the

origin of the species has become, basically, the Bible of so many scientists, when Darwin himself

wasn't really an accomplished scientist,.

Was he?

Well, no, he wasn't.

In fact, his only degree was in theology, and he did a lot of experiments, but he did experiments on things like

worms and insects that are consumed by plants, the fly

trap, for example, and so he did some experiments, but none of his experiments really helped support his

basic idea of Darwinism, and we call it Darwinism today, but he

wasn't the one who totally originated the theory.

He basically was the one who was able to convince the scientific world, or much the scientific world, that indeed

his idea of the view of Darwinism is, Darwin

recognized correctly that there's a great deal of variety in the natural world, and then he said, well, some of that

variety produces an animal, and that superior animal is more

likely to survive and propagate and propagate its kind.

Those inferior animals are able to propagate their kind.

The whole problem with that is not natural selection.

The whole problem is what they call, not survival of the fittest, but the arrival of the fittest, and Darwin was

not able to explain that, and today we have the same problem.

We're trying to explain scientists.

They're trying to explain, I'm trying to explain the arrival of the fittest.

What they've come up with that explains it, or at least they think it does, is mutations, and the whole problem with mutations

is the vast majority are either near -neutral in

the long run.

The vast majority of

mutations are not beneficial.

The solution is not

going nice in the area I teach, for example, in medicine.

We know that the accumulation of mutations is going up with each generation.

Back in my biochemistry, a hundred more

mutations than his or her parents,

each generation, and that leads up to what they call mutational

meltdown, and never going to get us to evolution.

It's not going to see that, indeed, the

evidence is not that we're getting better and better with each generation.

We're de -evolving, which, interestingly, of course, the scriptures talk about Adam and Eve

being perfect, and since then, sin entered into the world, and as a result, the mutational load is

increasing in each generation,.

And that's exactly what we see in science.

Now, was Darwin a theistic evolutionist, or was he, did he

become an atheist?

What was his, what were his views of God and so on?

Well, his views on God changed a little bit.

When he was younger, of course, he went to seminary and became a, wanted to become a priest, I should say, a

minister in the Anglican church, and he, when pressed on this, he

wavered back and forth.

A problem is, when he was alive, his wife was a devout Christian, his family was

very involved in the church, his neighbors, his friends, many were very involved in the church, and therefore

had, at least outward, a show of Christianity, and so he was, he was a good politician.

One might, you know, condemn him for his ideas, but on the other hand, he was a good politician, and he recognized, you don't

want to call yourself an atheist.

He once said that he never was a full atheist, but when you read his

ideas, he, for example, said

that, well, maybe God

intervened to create man.

He couldn't accept

that.

He intervened in the creation of man.

Well, Darwin was, and Darwin

basically said, there's no way I can accept God as having a vision of

life, and belief -wise, I guess you'd have to say he was an atheist, but he wouldn't label

himself that way.

He would probably label himself an agnostic, but in many ways, I think he was, you

know, trying to please the public.

He was trying to be a good politician.

As we know now from politicians, they tend to say what they need to get elected, and then when they get elected, they

do what they want to say.

The same thing is true with, he said what he needed to, I

should say, to sell books, and he indeed sold, but

there's always

been holdouts.

There's always been scientists then and today that recognize you'll never get,

you look at humans, what they believe

were

the results of billions.

When you put it that way, it doesn't make sense, and the way Darwin put it, but

then he was a good politician, knew what to say to sell his ideas, and he really thought he was selling his

ideas.

When he convinced somebody, he called them converts.

He says, well, we'll keep working on so -and -so, and when they finally accept the Darwinian worldview, he'd say,

well, we've got a

convert now in proselytizing, and that's one reason we call his theory

Darwinism instead of Lamarckianism.

Now, if you could, this may seem like a silly question because of the way that evolution

and Darwinism has really infiltrated society globally

from our youngest years of childhood, but if you could, just

to prevent anybody from having any kind of a caricature of what

Darwinian evolution really means, if you could give us a summary of what

Darwin actually meant by evolution, and what is the theory that

is predominantly held today by.

Scientists who are Darwinian?

Well, the theory is best described by a cliché, and that is

evolution is from the matter, which

they teach.

From the goo to you by way of the zoo, and that's really what they, that's basically it.

And that basically that we can trace, although they have no evidence of this,

that they believe that man basically has

ancestors that are traced all the way back to pond scum, as the old saying goes.

Is that actually true, what they believe?

That's the goo, and they recognize, many scientists today, that that's just not viable, that there's no way, given the

conditions on the earth, there's

no...

So now a more and more common theory is basically that we evolve from life, which came from outer

space.

In fact, Neil deGrasse Tyson, who did the film Cosmos, which is a tremendously successful film,

had a...

And of course, that begs the question, well, how

do you get to the stars?

I mean, if we can't explain the origin of life on the earth, how are you going to explain the origin somewhere else, some other

planet, some unknown XYZ planet somewhere out near other stars?

Origin of life and spontaneously origin,

then it spontaneously originated somewhere else.

But why do we think that somewhere else is commensurate with the origin of life?

Well, we don't.

So possibility of life, and we

can speculate it there

as well.

And we know that the planets we've discovered, the

only one and no other

planet we know of is hospitable to life.

The planets are either too large, too small, too close to the sun, too far away, or we don't understand the conditions

that are there to determine whether or not they're hospitable to life.

And I don't think they're going to find any planets that are, but, you know, scientists are spending money looking.

And to me, that just moves the problem somewhere else.

It doesn't solve it.

But they realize they've got a conundrum.

How do you get from organic matter, from molecules?

How do you get that to the cell?

The cell, as we know, of course, the most complex machine in the universe.

And as such, how are you going to get from a bunch of,

and they admit, we have no idea.

Well, the nation that

we have.

Now, the thing that is fascinating about this, fascinating and disturbing,

is that you have those who claim to be the true

intelligentsia of science, the true elite, the true scientists,

are those who claim Darwinianism as their theory for the

origins of life.

And yet, there is no scientific evidence to back up what they say.

And the observable science, when you have experiments that can be

reproduced and so on, all of that seems to point towards

creationism and the fact that there is intelligent design.

It seems very bizarre.

It is, to me, it's very reflective of ancient Roman

Catholicism, where you had the Roman Catholic Church severely

punishing individuals for believing in things

that they discovered through science.

And because it violated a Catholic teaching that was not even biblical, or it was not even the result

of accurate biblical exegesis, they were really superstitions or myths that the Catholic Church believed.

And they would censor or punish people who disagreed with them.

And of course, we have Copernicus and Galileo and people like that, that were

rebuked by Rome and censored and so on for their beliefs.

And today, it seems you have a reversal of things where you have the

scientific world acting like a religious totalitarian entity,

where it doesn't matter if you can prove us wrong, you better not say what you believe,

or we will ruin your career, we will get you fired, we will prevent you from being hired, you'll be a

laughingstock in the scientific community for believing what you believe, even though we can never,

in any stretch of the imagination, prove what we believe.

Yeah, that reminds me of my book I wrote not too long ago, I just published actually a few months ago, called Silencing the Darwin

Skeptics.

And I show indeed that that's exactly what's happening.

And I've been interested very much in eugenics, and an example of

that is I went with him,

and in studying that, in fact, my book, How Darwinism Corrodes Morality, which of course, Masterbook's New Leaf Press

published, one thing I stressed in there, indeed, is the fact that indeed,

Darwinism has affected our morals, our moral values.

In fact, the other book, The Darwin Effect, which I also carry

this through, Darwinism Corrodes Morality.

Joshua Press.

Joshua Press, right.

And those two books, I stress the importance of really dominated

science, and there were very, very few scientists that opposed eugenics.

And I wonder how in the world could so many people accept an idea which we recognize today as just ludicrous, the idea

that certain groups, blacks, Jews, and so on, that they're inferior,

we see that today as just irresponsible.

We had adopted that idea 50, 60, 70 years ago,

and so we had them to accept it.

Now, some did reject it, but didn't speak out about it.

In fact, one of the main ones that spoke out about it was an American called Franz Boas, and

he was Jewish himself, and he taught at Columbia University.

And he ended up in trouble because he questioned the orthodox view of

eugenics today among Darwinists, that they accept a world

view as

well.

Well, how could they accept 50 years ago the idea that Slavic, and

as one scientist said, they're human weeds, and we have to eliminate them.

Well, we have the same social environment which pressures back then.

Today, another worldview was eugenics.

And I think in time, many are

beginning to recognize that indeed, even in

his day, in

the 60s and 50s, how

ludicrous Darwinism was.

And he effectively, he didn't talk about the fossil record, but he

talked about the moral effects on society, and the pressure that scientists exerted

against other scientists, as well as those in society, to accept this idea that indeed,

from the good, I

never really appreciate, I

document indeed, that he recognized the core of the matter.

And that is

the Nazi -like

totalitarianism, which, of course,.

Well, I'm going to take some of our listener questions right

now.

And first, we're going to start with Charlie Liebert, who is from Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And Charlie Liebert is a name that many of my Iron Sharpens Iron radio

listeners will recognize, because Charlie, quite often, is my co

-host here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

And Charlie happens to be founder of a ministry called sixdaycreation .com.

And he has a question for you.

In my discussions with non -Christians, many say that Germany was Christian at the time of Hitler.

I know they were humanistic, but how do you counter that statement, simply?

And he says, I lost three great uncles with 13 children in

the Holocaust.

That's interesting, Charlie.

I want to hear more about that, because I know that you're a Christian, so it's interesting that you lost

ancestors in the Holocaust, nonetheless.

But if you could comment.

Yeah, people very often will blur the distinction between nominal,

mainline Christianity and the genuine Bible -believing.

Regenerate faith.

Yeah, on my book, Hitler in the Darwinian Worldview, I cover a chapter on that, but there's been a

lot written on it.

And we know Christianity teaches things like love your enemy, love your brother.

It's how you basically love your brother, then you love Christ.

And, you know, there are many, many

scriptures.

Many then, as is true today, so many were

a good

example of, indeed, what happens when we only have what they call

veneer Christianity.

And many Christians are veneer Christians.

They have a covering which is Christian, but Korah was

Christian.

We

Nazi

movement, primarily those, there

were more Christians who spoke up.

It's often been documented that, indeed, we wouldn't have

said, no, we cannot allow this.

We cannot accept this to happen.

But a lot of this, the average person didn't know about many of these

things, at least until later on in the war.

And so the government really tried hard to keep it quiet until later on.

They got to a point where they couldn't.

But, indeed, that's one reason I wrote the book, A Nazi Worldview, was,

indeed, I see the same thing to some degree happening today.

Surveys have shown that a younger generation of millennials, now 51 percent,

do not call themselves Christians, but 51 percent call themselves nuns, which means they're no religion, but

many are atheists or agnostics.

And so we see the same if you follow a specialist

to talk about what happened at the

University of California, Berkeley, you can see that in so many ways our society is moving away from Christianity.

We had, I

understand, a war in Afghanistan.

He said, you can be sent to Afghanistan.

And I said, well, you're lucky, they couldn't, because the number of people dying in Chicago is worse than Afghanistan.

And he chuckled, and he said, yeah, that's

true, I know.

And that's how Darwinism grew,

won by Joshua Press, which, by the way, all my books are available on Amazon and most any bookstore

here.

And you can also get them through one of my sponsors.

I have to throw that in there,.

Obviously, CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service .com.

They carry books by Jerry Bergman as well.

And well, thank you, Charlie Liebert.

And we hope that you recover rapidly from surgery.

That is one of the reasons Charlie is not in the studio with me today.

And of course, many of you know that my other co -host, Reverend Buzz Taylor, is normally in the

studio with me, and he is returning to his full -time career after

a vacation that he was on.

So we hope that Buzz can return quickly as our co -host as well.

Charlie, you are getting a free copy of this book that we are discussing, How

Darwinism Corrodes Morality.

And that is compliments of Joshua Press and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

CVBBS .com, who I just mentioned, who will be shipping that out to you at no charge to

you or to us.

So thank you very much for contributing to today's program.

By the way, I keep screwing up the pronunciation.

Are both acceptable pronunciations?

Is it Darwinism and Darwinianism?

Are they both.

Acceptable, or am I just an idiot?

Yeah, no, Darwinism is the common term, but Darwinianism, I guess that would be

better.

You see them both.

Well, you've already touched on this,.

But we'll read Daniel's question from Bakersfield,

California.

Daniel from Bakersfield, California says,.

My question for Dr. Jerry Berkman is, Would you say that the popularity of Darwinian

evolution has led to the low view of human life we have in our culture today?

In my opinion, there seems to be a correlation between the full acceptance of Darwinian evolution

and abortion and assisted suicide.

Yes, certainly with abortion, there is.

In fact,.

I have a chapter on that in the book on how Darwinism corrodes morality.

And I show, indeed, that the arguments they used when the abortion case was before the Supreme Court,

when they argued in the genetics department,

you're not removing or killing a human, you're killing a fish.

According to Heckel's idea of Darwinism, you're basically not human, you're a fish.

And they call that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.

They used to claim that, indeed, at that stage, we have

gill slits.

Well, we don't have gill slits, we don't have gills at that stage.

And fortunately, my biology textbook we use correctly calls them

pharyngeal

slits,

pharyngeal cliffs.

That idea was totally wrong for many years and

now supports his ontogeny

recapitulates phylogeny

theory, dishonest pictures idea of

ontogeny.

Ontogeny, basically, what that means is that when we are really, really young in the womb,

we basically are, then we

evolve into reptiles, and we evolve into mammals, and then primates, and then

humans.

So we go through our ridiculous

textbooks for many, many years.

And indeed, the animals that Heckel used in his drawings to find out

to prove, indeed, that he was, we do not go through these

various, as I go to develop

as an adult

human, went through that fish stage.

And the idea that they had for over 100 years is simply

wrong.

I think today, if the case were to go before the Supreme Court, I do not think that they would

rule that they would recognize, indeed, that at month one, two,

three, four, and five, we are human, fully human.

We're not fish evolution, and therefore the major argument they use.

Well, I guess now we know the basis for the classic Don Knotts movie, The Incredible Mr.

Limpet.

When he became a fish, if you recall, I don't know if you ever saw that movie in the 60s, Dr. Bergman,

but that was a childhood classic of a scientist who became a fish.

But anyway, I digress.

Thank you, Daniel in Bakersfield, California.

You also have won a free copy of the book we are discussing, How Darwinianism Corrodes

Morality by Jerry Bridges.

I'm sorry, Jerry Bridges, the dear Jerry Bridges, our late brother in Christ, who's now in glory.

I have interviewed him while he was still with us, and your name just looked a lot like his.

Jerry Bergman, and that is compliments of Joshua Press, and

also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will be shipping that out to you.

Please make sure that we have your full mailing address,

if you could email that to us so we can get that out to you as soon as possible.

Our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

And we also have a listener all the way in Slovenia, Joe,

who says, Please ask Dr. Bergman to explain to us

how the Darwinian evolutionist gets around or explains

the absence of transitional species in the fossil record.

It seems to me, as others have pointed out, that if Darwinian evolution were true,

we would expect to see lots of transitional species in the fossil record.

But if I understand correctly, they are absent.

What does the fact of their absence tell us about the willingness of the

unregenerate to believe and propagate social policies based on a theory that is devoid

of the key piece of evidence that would substantiate its claims?

Thank you for your invaluable work, and also the key piece of evidence that would demonstrate that it's science at all.

But anyway, Dr. Bergman, if you could respond to Joe from Slovenia.

Yeah, that's a very.

Good question, and Darwin himself asked that, and he said, Why are there not innumerable numbers of

transitional fossils?

And he said there weren't.

He recognized there weren't.

And the response today from scientists is, Well, we just got to keep digging.

We just got to keep looking.

We'll find them.

They're out there, but we have to keep looking.

But some recognize that we've been looking for 150 years, and we haven't found what they're expecting at all.

We have found some which appear to be transitional, but if we look at them more carefully, we find out that they're not.

But they recognize that's a huge problem, and so their response is that one of the latest responses is

that what happened is during the transition from one animal type to another is in

the fossil record.

So therefore, it's not there because evolution occurred so fast.

In between, when you evolve into another kind

of animal, it didn't leave very many because we evolved so.

And that, of course, is a question which tries to explain lack of information.

And, you know, you can come up with all kinds of reasons for lack of information, but...

And they believe it so strongly that they have to come up with some explanation, and that's the one that they came up with.

Primarily Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge came up with that explanation.

And it's not universally accepted because many scientists recognize that what you

need is clear evidence of transitional forms, and it's

just not there.

The transitional forms just are not there, and what they're

expecting...

Fish and other animals, for example, are between dinosaurs and other animals, and what they find is the first

dinosaur is a

dinosaur.

They're finding they're simply not there.

We evolved from another planet, and then we came to the Earth as, you

know, in some spaceship or some rocket ship, which is called the Superman,

or we came to the Earth as a result of being carried on a

meteor.

It's hard

to give up a theory you believed all your life,

and it's a science belief.

So, you know, they're trying to maintain their belief.

Same thing with eugenics.

They tried to maintain their belief even though evidence just wasn't there.

They, for example, got a bunch of skeletons from Jews, and they took the flesh off, and they wanted to

display these in the museum in Berlin, and they were trying to find evidence that these,

what they called a race then, was inferior, and they couldn't find any.

They just couldn't find any evidence that indeed these people were the way.

Well, we got the wrong.

We can indeed deflesh these, and we can indeed show that they're inferior.

So, you don't find evidence.

They just keep what they did then, and now, of course, we recognize how

appallingly foolish that is, that they just

couldn't.

You've got to take off your evolution glasses and look at the world the way it is,

and when they look at the world, they can't see the world the way it is, and no wonder they just can't see

the evidence right in front of them, which, of course, we're talking about now.

I don't want to sound overly.

Sensationalistic here, but when Joe asks about,

you know, the willingness of the unregenerate to propagate social policies based on

theories devoid of any evidence, you wonder how much of this

is due to demonic influence.

Now, I am a non -charismatic, thoroughgoing, five -point

Calvinist.

I am not one who is prone to sensationalism, because I know that the liberals like to laugh at things like

that, but do you think that that is really a very obvious element

of this whole thing, because it seems that it has reached the level of insanity

that the scientific world has bought things as gospel that you cannot

detract from, or you will lose your reputation and livelihood?

That's true.

That's a very good point,.

And you certainly wonder if that's the case, but by and large, I think the case is that they're surrounded by this worldview, and they accept it

because that's what's in their environment.

And you think it's also, like, one of the things I just said, is that they may lose their jobs if.

They start to question these things.

Yeah, that's a big factor in many people, and when you get to know people on a personal level, you find that many scientists

have major doubts about Darwinism, but they're not going to voice these

publicly because they know it could cause them problems, and so, you know, as they say, when you're drinking coffee after

work and talking about these things, you realize that a lot of people have big problems.

A lot of scientists have big problems.

I'm not going to talk about this to other people because I know they're

not going to be receptive, and it may jeopardize my career.

You know, stay in the closet, and that's what we call it.

Stay in the closet until later on the closet becomes more open and more accepting,.

But for now, a lot just prefer to stay in the closet.

Well, it's one thing that's fascinating to me is that you would think scientists

would be absolutely titillated and excited when they hear about

tissue being found on fossils and so on, you know,

in relation to dinosaurs and so on.

Why is it that they are rejecting these things or not really

treating them with the enthusiasm that they deserve?

Well, they realize they have a big.

Problem with this.

Of course, finding what they claim is 65 -year -old, million -year -old fossils, dinosaur fossils, and you break them open, and you

dissolve the bone away with acids, and then you find they have soft tissue that would look like blood cells

and DNA and so on.

That these 65 -million -year -old, they're

trying to come up with reasons, and I think it's the same thing we end up with in the other areas.

We talked about that.

They're looking for reasons, but they can't find any.

So, eventually, you think they're going to have to say, well, maybe these bones are not 65 million years

old.

They found certain ones in Madagascar, but now they found them in the United States, and there's been dozens of studies which

replicated the original findings.

Indeed, they found that dinosaurs, even in North Dakota,

dinosaurs, indeed, can yield

to the implications of what they found, and they're now trying to come up with reasons for what they found, but I don't

think they're going to be able to, and they're going to have to admit that, you know, this appears that these dinosaurs are not as old as they think they are.

Wasn't some female paleontologist, like, ridiculed, or

in some way having her career jeopardized, who actually was one of the

discoverers of the tissue?

Yeah, Mary Schweitzer was one of the discoverers, and she made this discovery,

and there was criticism.

When they replicated, as I mentioned, when they replicated her studies, they found the same thing, and

so she's accurate.

What she's saying is, indeed, valid, and as we have now, I'm not sure how many, but 50,

100 or so studies that found the same thing.

I mean, you can't deny it.

If she says, you do this and dissolve the bone away with chemicals, you find this,

and I do it, and I find it, and you do it, and you find it, and somebody else does it, and they find the same thing, you can't deny it anymore.

You have to recognize, indeed, that that's fact, and therefore, they're still grappling with it, but

eventually, I think they're going to have to get to the point that, indeed, they recognize their theory,

although right now, they're just shoving it under the rug, and they're

saying, well, we'll figure it

out.

It's a problem on our side.

Yeah, amazing that they would be shoving that or sweeping that under the rug.

Absolutely amazing that you would think that they would be totally amazed and fascinated and excited.

Oh, this is really ridiculous, but we're going to be going to a break right now.

By the way, thank you, Joe in Slovenia, and thank you for providing us with an American address

where Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship you your free copy of How

Darwinism Corrodes Morality by Jerry Bergman, and thank you very much for contributing to

today's program.

That will be in the mail to you shortly, so keep your eye open for a package from cvbbs .com,

cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for biblebookservice .com, and once again, we thank Joshua Press

for providing these books for us today to give away to you, the listeners, and we're going to

a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air as well, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Jerry Bergman and How Darwinism

Corrodes Morality.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour to go

is Dr. Jerry Bergman.

He has nine degrees, including seven graduate degrees, has studied for his past

college work in biology, chemistry, psychology, and evaluation and research.

He's a prolific writer, a teacher of biology, chemistry, and biochemistry at Northwest State

in Archbold, Ohio.

And we are discussing his book, How Darwinism Corrodes Morality.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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And there are a number of you still waiting to have your questions asked and answered.

So we will get to you as soon as we can.

Before I return to our discussion, I want to remind you of a couple of things.

First of all, the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology is going to be held

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I will be there, God willing, with an exhibitor's booth.

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The speakers at this conference include Dan Doriani, Richard Phillips, Carl

Truman, and others.

And the theme is Reformation, Recovering the Essence of the Gospel.

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All right, we are back now with our interview with Dr. Jerry Bergman on how

Darwinianism or Darwinism corrodes morality.

And we have Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire, who

has a question.

He says, when I have talked to friends who embrace Darwinism regarding their foundations for

morality, their inevitable appeal is to moral relativism.

What I have tried to gently show to these friends is that no one functionally lives that way.

For instance, if one's child was being murdered before their eyes, no one would say, I find this

personally morally objectionable.

No, they would claim it would be absolutely wrong, no matter the culture, no matter how many other people

believe it to be right.

Doesn't this moral outrage reveal that we are indeed made in the image of God and that God's law is written

on our hearts, as Paul says in Romans 2?

Dr. Bergman?

Good question, and that's why a lot of people reject Darwinism,

what's moral and what's right and what's wrong.

And this innate sense, now, of course, part of it's the environment, no doubt,

this sense, and therefore, all they've studied are pretty...

In fact, you have to hard, work hard,

dislike of doing things like killing children.

It's difficult.

Even in Nazi Germany, the leaders said that we'd be prouder that we overcame this

tremendous resistance against doing what we're doing, but yet we're doing what we're doing, in the end, for that

we're eliminating inferior people, and they likened it to a surgeon.

A surgeon goes into a body, removes a defective organ, and

does that, in the end, of helping the patient.

But they saw this, not to

do that to millions of people, and we ought to be

playing Himmler and a few

other guys, that that was very difficult to overcome, the innate moral sense that people had.

And that's ironically why they developed the gas chambers.

They used to basic, Ukraine, for example,

and the government recognized that this is,

the individuals were

44, I believe, mansion that used to be owned.

They met there, so many,

so they said, well, let's remove,

and then let's systematically murder them inside the camps.

And at a

very, very young, you knew certain things that we

have.

And that's one thing that impressed C .S. Lewis, laying this while they

couldn't.

And so, C .S. Lewis must be God -given, and therefore, that's why we have it, and that's why

it's universal, and that's why it takes,

why many people, I've talked to people in the military,

but on the other hand, many people, innate, you

have many people who come back from war, and then they end up suffering from the experience of that, and

you have many people who suffer from post -traumatic stress syndrome, and a lot of

it is there, which they never really over,

overcome this moral sense, but indeed, they, they have, they realize they have to work hard,

Heinrich Himmler recognized.

Well, Jerry, thank you so much for contributing to today's show with your excellent question.

You have also won a free copy of the book by the other Jerry, Jerry Bergman,

How Darwinism Corrodes Morality, and please make sure that we have your full mailing address,

so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you free of charge at cvbbs

.com.

So keep your eye out for a package with a return address on the envelope, or the

package that says cvbbs .com for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service

dot com, cvbbs .com.

And let's see here, we have Scott, who says that he lives about 20

miles from Northwest State College, and he says, that's in

Bryan, Ohio, and he says, please ask your guest how he personally feels about the

school of thought that suggests a separation of biblical

interpretation from the book of nature.

That's a good thought.

Of course, as I teach in a secular college, I have to be very careful that I present information which is appropriate in that

venue and with people.

That's unfortunate.

In this country, we can't.

And of course, I try to scrupulously obey the requirements there.

And it'd be nice if we could, but on the other hand, that's not what the law says.

And one way of dealing with that is to change the law.

And I noticed when I go to Canada to speak that they do not have this requirement.

And one chemistry professor I was with when I was in a major Canadian university, he said, I open all my

classes in chemistry, and I say, isn't that a problem?

Isn't that going to cause a problem?

He says, well, no, there's no problem here.

Students like it as a whole, even the students that aren't like it by and

large.

So there's a problem there, but it is a problem here.

And so what we have to do is change the law so

that you're very careful about presenting

things that will upset them.

You need to build your teaching.

And if you say things that are upsetting, of course, that can impede your trying to help students in

computer science.

So I'm very careful.

And a long time ago, I asked me if

I said yes, but it happened again.

And so I think about it.

Maybe I shouldn't have said, well, that's really not appropriate

in the academic environment today.

And so I'm, again, very careful of

them.

And again, that's too bad.

We have that.

But on the other hand, it takes some court decisions to be able to change that.

On the other hand, you get

someone to the

election, which I know happens.

But you want to go to math class to learn about math, not to

be careful about talking about political.

And I help the students grow in understanding, indoctrinate students.

And either side.

I mean, I don't like people indoctrinating students in atheism.

Concerns about me attempting to indoctrinate students in my worldview.

So we need to help them understand the

position of colleges.

And the professor I mentioned, who teaches chemistry, does not indoctrinate.

He's not teaching philosophy.

Or you

teach world of a

problem

formation, which we know from scientific investigation.

Yes, that's that's completely acceptable and understandable and

right.

If you're being if you're hired by a secular institution or a

an institution that does not have an open religious bias, then

obviously you would be stealing from your employer if you were to start to teach theology during those courses that

you were not that you were hired to teach if you were teaching over another subject and so on.

So that's completely obviously the only the only time that is ever sin is when you are denying the

faith or when you are lying to your students, teaching them things that you know to be

untrue and so on.

Yeah.

And I try to give them ideas and say, well, you know, this is one idea.

And what's your thoughts?

I try to draw students in.

I'm not one.

I like to stand up there and lecture for two hours.

I I prefer to have discussions, debates, etc. With students really say things

which might be a little bit controversial.

And I say, OK, that's one idea.

What do you think?

What's what's your thoughts?

What's your opinion?

And so I try to draw students in effectively.

And so far, I'm not aware of any concerns have been raised in this area.

And I encourage students to, you know, if I say something that's inappropriate, let me know so I can be aware.

I show them as I try to 12 minutes.

If there's any problems with this, let me know.

And typically, if there's one person that objects to the film, I don't show it again.

I have enough material that if one person objects, I don't need to show it again.

I just

that indeed there's enough

material out there that I can be sensitive

to their needs.

In fact, your employers are to be commended because in this world where, as we were already

saying, people who are in any way against

the status quo of science, the what is acceptable in

the secular scientific community, they very often have their careers

destroyed and their reputations maligned.

And it's quite a commendable thing that they've hired someone

knowing that you are not according to their ilk.

But just that actually reminds me of another question.

Is Darwin, is Darwinism basically on a

steady level of acceptance in the scientific world?

Or is there any noticeable decline

within the ranks of secular science in regard to the acceptance of this theory that seems to

have zero evidence for much of what, if not most of what it

promotes?

Well, there is major questions about

becoming aware

of their problems.

And there's conventions and

conferences who basically

conventions in various cities, which indeed talk about the problems of Darwinism.

So they are aware of it.

And the idea, like I mentioned, Neil deGrasse Tyson, he spends not his time talking about abiogenesis on the

earth, the origin of life on the earth, but somewhere else, see

why he'd spend so much

origin of spontaneous generation of life on the earth.

And therefore he moves in some way.

By the way, Scott in Bryan, Ohio, you have won the final copy that we have

available of how Darwinism corrodes morality.

So please make sure that we have your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to

you.

And so keep your eye open for a package from CVBBS .com.

CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service dot com.

We also want to make sure we thank Joshua Press again for providing us with these books.

And their website, by the way, is Joshua Press dot com.

Joshua Press dot com if you want to see anything else that they have available in print.

So we hope to be working with Joshua Press for a long time to come and promote other

authors that they have.

I know that my friend Dr. Michael Haken, who I've had on this program a number of times, is

one of the authors they publish.

And that is a very positive sign for me.

But I forgot to ask you earlier.

I'm assuming you are a young earth creationist, as I am, just because of the fact that I

saw your bio on the Creation Ministries website from Australia.

But I have a big problem with the old age view.

But I look at the main evidence for me for the young earth view, at least with humans, is that no

way that humans could be many.

We know that and there's no way

that mutational degeneration would not occur if

indeed we were that old.

So the evidence for humans and all life, by the way, could not be that old.

And so since I'm not a geophysicist, I look at the evidence from biology, and that

convinces me indeed that life.

In fact, you may have stolen the thunder of one of our listeners, Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker

of Shepherds Fellowship in Greensboro, North Carolina, writes, What other

empirical evidence in genetics point toward a limit to the length of time for human life,

considering your prior comment on the approximately 100 mutations per

generation?

Thanks for the great show, brothers.

Is there anything else you care to add to what the Sterling, Pastor Sterling has said?

Oh, you could add a lot.

And I'll just give you one brief example.

We have what they call a repair system.

Now, evolution works by accumulation of mutations.

And there's lots

of mutations when they're

repaired.

Complex system, in fact, there's 12 that we know of complex systems.

So if evolution is a result of mistake, you explain the fact a

mutation that occurs, which is beneficial, well, the chances are very, very high that that's

going to be repaired.

Well, that would work against evolution, against the theory.

And of course, how could you explain the repair system, which cannot function until all

the complex system.

And when you cover this in class, the students get lost.

And I explain, well, you know, you have to kind of realize I'm trying to simplify it and make it as basic as I can.

But on the other hand, they recognize that, indeed, it's a wonder how in

the world this could come about, because this opposes Darwinism.

And of course, I let them think about it.

I don't give them any answers.

I don't tell them what I feel.

But understand the repair system, and it's complex, indeed.

It's not going to work until every single part.

That's an idea called irreducible, completely,

that they will not work by definition if they lose

that one part.

They can't lose a part.

And to function, they have to have a certain minimum number of parts.

And we know with the body, they have to.

And we know, for example, if the lethal to the

orthum does not develop,

doesn't work.

And as a

result, people

have cancer

before it

works.

There's a certain

part that you

cannot live without.

Well, thank you, Pastor Sterling.

Sorry, we don't have any books to give to you today.

But I hope that Dr. Jerry Bergman returns to our program often, since he's quite

a prolific writer.

And perhaps the next time we have him on, God willing, and if he is, if Dr. Bergman is willing as well,

perhaps you can win a book next time written by him.

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a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the previous 90 minutes and the next half

hour to come has been and will continue to be Dr. Jerry Bergman, and we are discussing his book, How

Darwinism Corrodes Morality.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, asks,

how have some figures that our audience may or may not recognize

that had prominent roles in society and shaping our history been negatively affected

by Darwinism?

I'm sorry.

And one name that you rarely hear in discussion is Havelock Ellis.

Are you familiar with this figure?

And what can you tell us about Havelock Ellis?

Oh, yeah, I'm familiar with Havelock Ellis.

Yeah, he became a Darwinist and eugenicist, and he was one of the main persons behind

the so -called free love movement.

He felt that we can have more than one car.

We can have more than one house.

We can have more than one pet.

Why can't we have more than one?

Oh, he really pushed that.

And he practiced him and Margaret Sanger, who is

a Planned Parenthood today,

a very well -known writer.

And his books that he wrote, it became very,

he was a major figure, one man, one

woman, one relationship

show in breaking down those barriers

in our society, him and many

others.

In fact, almost name one

that wasn't.

So you're saying this individual is actually a lover of Margaret Sanger?

Well, he had a relationship with Margaret Sanger.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Margaret Sanger was the one who, of course, started basically the, she

was eugenicist as well.

And she also talked about we need to reduce the number of inferior races.

And therefore, she had her birth control clinics were founded primarily in poor neighborhoods, primarily

black neighborhoods.

In fact, today, they're still found primarily in black neighborhoods

because she felt that blacks were inferior.

And therefore, the number should be reduced.

And she felt one of the most humane ways of doing this was to basically encourage

black women to prep

the eugenics movement and her support of it and what she wanted to do.

And it's not talked about a lot because, of course, the Planned Parenthood not exactly is proud of her past.

But it's interesting that many well -known people saw Margaret Sanger.

But in essence, she was not because she indeed advocated practice as

men after all.

Yes, well, a better way of putting the Planned Parenthood

is embarrassed by her ideology and background is

that they intentionally hide it and deceive the public.

Because they promote her as a hero very energetically and

unwaveringly and unabashedly and still have a Margaret Sanger's award.

And in fact, Hillary Clinton very proudly accepted that award among other people.

But this woman, it's amazing how people either are ignorant of this fact

or are just unwilling to accept it.

And it's amazing also that you very rarely hear about this in the media.

You hear it mentioned once in a while, but not even on Fox News or some conservative media outlets.

You hardly ever hear that this woman was an avowed racist.

She had Nazis writing for her periodicals prior to World War II.

In fact, it's interesting that I have heard that

Nazi Germany and Hitler himself learned much about

eugenics from Long Island, New York, where I am from, because of the eugenics laboratory there.

Have you heard of this eugenics laboratory?

Oh yeah, Cold Spring Harbor, yeah.

Yeah, I was raised about a half hour from Cold Spring, maybe 25 minutes from

Cold Spring Harbor.

And that laboratory still exists, but it is not a eugenics laboratory.

And if you go to their website and you do some tricks here and

there, it's not easy to find, but you can find some articles on their dark history where they

openly are ashamed of that aspect of their background, saying nothing of abortion, of course.

Yeah.

And Tia, tell our listeners a little bit more about eugenics, because they hear this word and it's just kind of perhaps

flying over their heads.

Yeah, eugenics, the main aspect that we focus on today for a number of reasons is elimination of the Jews.

And they thought the Jews was a race, an inferior race.

And we tend to forget the fact that it wasn't just the Jews, but it was

gypsies, not everybody except Aryans, as

German or Scandinavian.

And so it would include Hispanics.

It would include people from South America.

It would include American Indians.

It would include, well, pretty much the whole world population.

And now Hitler realized in his, you're not going to be able to fight a war against

90 of the world's population, but they thought we'll get the Jews first, then we'll get the,

and then we'll get the Slavics.

And the goal was to make slaves at first and eventually eliminate the Slavics.

In fact, they killed more Slavic people, Poles specifically, than they did Jews.

And so they had a world goal to eliminate what they thought were inferior races.

And again, we find that to be ludicrous, but we stress the Jews, which we should, but on the other hand, we should stress what

the goals were, was clearly eugenics, clearly racism, people besides

the Jews.

And that's because they're in Germany.

And I should stress, it wasn't religion.

It was, there were certain

ministers, their father or mother or

gramps as well.

They didn't care what you believed.

They didn't care if you were Jewish back.

Lisa Meitner, for example, was a well -known,

and she was, and

therefore she managed to get out.

They told her, you know, you better leave so she managed to leave before she could

be killed.

But she went to Sweden and ironically, when she was in Sweden, was where they discovered the

process which eventually led to the atomic bomb.

And so ironically, many of the leading scientists that developed the atomic bomb were from Germany.

And so if Hitler didn't have his war against the Jews,

probably Germany would have developed the atomic bomb.

In fact, if you look at, well, Albert Einstein was German.

He was important.

Lisa Meitner, I just mentioned, was important and he was also a German Jew.

He was Hungarian Jew, sorry.

And so many of the leading scientists that ended up developing the atomic bomb were indeed of

Jewish ethnicity, which was, of course, the Nazis.

So their own footoff, because they could have conquered the world if they would have let the

scientists develop the atomic bomb.

If they only didn't have a war against ethnic Jews, then they probably would have, and German.

Well, thank God for that, that we are not.

If we would have survived, by the way, he didn't.

He objected to Americans because Americans intermix so much with Indians and with so many other

ethnic groups that Hitler thought the Americans were

no longer

peer intermixing with groups around them.

For,

he made sure that that was destroyed so that, and again,

that's controversial.

But I think there's some decent evidence that indeed indicates that he was.

Yes, I agree.

In fact, it's a matter of record.

It's not even theory that there are even a number of Jews in the American

Nazi party founded by George Lincoln Rockwell.

Very strange phenomena.

Of course, they were not openly identifying themselves or revealing the truth about themselves.

But even secular historians are aware of that fact.

And of course, you have the fact that I have been utterly convinced that

the Nazi party, especially in its early stages, was

rampant with homosexuals, active homosexuals.

And of course, you have Ernst Röhm being the most notorious, open, unashamed

homosexual pederast being one of the leaders in the earlier part of the Nazi

party's history.

There are some books that claim that.

I have them.

I haven't read them yet, to be honest.

But later on, of course, the problem was that they had to replace the 20 million or so Germans that died in the

army.

And so concern later on became with homosexuality that indeed they were not having big families.

And so it's kind of mixed, like you brought out, it's kind of a mixed bag.

And some claim, I'm not sure if this is true, but again, some claim that that was true with Hitler.

He never did marry.

And his relationship with Eva Brown was pretty bad.

He really mistreated her.

In fact, there's quite a bit of evidence that she was actually abusive toward

him, toward the bitter end.

And they ended up committing suicide together, of course.

And you wonder why any woman would be

very, very problematic.

And that diamond doesn't, as they say.

But indeed, I think that's one possibility among others that indeed he himself was

oriented toward that lifestyle.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, does Alfred Kinsey fit

into the mix of popular figures who are revered as heroes, who

are actually in many ways monsters, who were affected by Darwinism?

Yeah, he does.

He's a central person that converted basically Judeo -Christian morality in this country to

the problem we have today, especially among certain minority groups, where about 70 of the...

And if you read the story of Alfred Kinsey, it's really a problem, because he exploited

sex with males and with females.

And he filmed a lot of this.

So we have photographs.

In fact, we know that he had many of his co -workers.

No way he could...

In many ways, they were more liberal, or at least regarding this issue.

And he was not only into promiscuous sadomasochism,

sexuality of a human female, his findings.

But his findings were ludicrous, because he interviewed a lot of inmates.

He interviewed a lot of populations that indeed are not representative of

scientific...

Just worthless,

but

recognize the abuse of...

Quite young, he had a lot of health problems.

A human male, you can then...

Trying to justify behavior, which we then...

And...

That's interesting.

That's interesting, because I organized a debate a number of years ago in Amityville, Long Island, New York,

not far from the aforementioned Cold Spring Harbor Lab.

And this was between David Silverman, the president, the current president of Madeline Murray O 'Hare's American

Atheist Organization, and my friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

And the debate theme was, is the New Testament evil?

And the...

Basically, David Silverman was saying that morality...

Because he knew he had to, in some way, borrow from a Christian worldview to even have a concept

of morality and good and evil.

And so he basically admitted that in his worldview, whatever the majority of

people are doing in any particular geographic region, in any

particular era of time, that is what is moral, and that is what is good.

And he saw when Dr. White said to this Jewish atheist, David

Silverman, so that if you were being walked through the gates of a death camp by

Nazi soldiers, is the worst thing that you could possibly say about this event is

that you find it personally objectionable?

And he said...

He admitted it.

He said yes, which was kind of a breathtaking part of the

debate.

But it shows you the insanity that this worldview leads to.

Yeah.

Well, I want to make sure, before we run out of time, and I know already that we definitely have to have you back,

not only to continue a discussion of this book, but to delve into your other many books.

And you have an open door here, as far as I'm concerned, if you're interested in coming back.

But I want you to summarize what you most want to have etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners right now.

Well, the thing I want to stress is that the idea of Darwinism, and let me define that, is from the goo to you by

way of the zoo.

The idea of Darwinism, and it's a worldview.

It's the way they see the world.

There are major, major problems with that.

And that idea has caused huge problems in our society, which I document in several of my books.

Not just Nazism, but also the free love movement and promiscuity

movement and so on.

And so we need to understand that this worldview, the way they see the world, has been a problem.

And we need to look at the evidence.

And I stress, I read about a book a week.

So I try to be well read.

And what I'm saying is that in order to find out what reality is, in order to see reality, you have

to read, read, read, read.

Read both sides.

Read what this person says, what that person says.

And when you carefully evaluate both sides, you can see indeed that the facts clearly, and not

other sides.

And it's not functional for me to tell people which side I'm on.

Although I think, but on the other hand, when you look carefully at the evidence,

as I find most people who look carefully at the evidence, they say, well,

you gotta look at this side.

And they say, well, no, I'm not going to look at that side because I don't accept it.

Well, look at this side and then make a judgment.

No, no, why should I bother reading stuff I disagree with?

Well, I read stuff I disagree with all the time,

is indeed supportive of what I have to say in my

conclusions because I've looked at both sides.

I understand both sides.

In fact, as a Christian, you have an advantage of looking at the other side because then you understand the evidence for

Christianity and you're not accepting it just because this is what you were told as a child.

It's coming out good

and that indeed showing that at least

a result of the facts that he learned by

his...

And he, through doing the research, he indeed saw that...

Well, I want to quickly, because you mentioned Lee Strobel, I just want to plug another conference.

Lee Strobel is not going to be at it, but he is making public promotions for it.

He is enthusiastically supporting the conference.

And that is the New York Apologetics Conference at the Smithtown Christian School in Suffolk County, Long

Island, New York.

This is under the theme, Will You Survive the Culture?

And the speakers include Greg Koukl, Frank Turek, and Mary Jo Sharp.

That's the Dare to Defend Conference being orchestrated by New York Apologetics.

My friend, Anthony Uvinio, and his colleague, Nick Mitchell, are running this conference.

And if you want to attend this conference, which is Friday, April 28th, 7 to 9 p .m.,

and Saturday, April 29th, 9 a .m. to 4 p .m., go to NewYorkApologetics .com,

NewYorkApologetics .com.

And that's New York.

Those two words are spelled out.

Do not abbreviate them.

NewYorkApologetics .com.

I want to make sure that our listeners have the Joshua Press website.

It's joshuapress .com, joshuapress .com, who have published this book that we have been discussing.

Do you have any other contact information that you care to provide, Dr. Bergman?

Well, my home email is jerrybergman30 at yahoo .com.

If any readers want to, listeners want to email me, that's fine.

Help them with whatever concerns they have.

Yahoo .com, my interest in this area.

Amen.

And I want everybody to have a safe, joyful, and glorious Easter weekend.

And I hope you have a blessed time at your Good Friday services if you are attending them.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.