May 6, 2026 Show with William Shisko AND D. Scott Meadows on “Albert N. Martin: A Loving Tribute in Memory of the Gospel Lion of Montville, NJ”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this sixth day of May 2026.

Before I introduce to you my two guests and our topic today, I want you all to mark down on your calendars that Thursday of next week,

Thursday, May 14th, we are going to be joined for the first time by my guest,

Jonathan Blair, who happens to be the actor that portrayed George Whitefield, the 19th century evangelist, in the new film,

A Great Awakening. And Jonathan is a Christian, and we'll be hearing more about his personal life and how portraying

George Whitefield has had an impact on him, and many more things that we don't know about him, and perhaps even that we don't know about George Whitefield.

And we'll be joined that day with my co -host,

Kurt M. Smith, who is a Reformed Baptist pastor in Alabama, and he is a biographer of George Whitefield.

Kurt and I, not long ago, conducted a review of A Great Awakening on this program, and I'm thrilled that Jonathan Blair will be joining us for further review and promotion of this wonderful film.

And so please make sure you tune in on Thursday of next week, that's

May 14th. Well, on April 7th of this year, 2026, the church lost one of its modern giants.

That would be Albert N. Martin, who for many years was pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey, and he went home to be with the

Lord that he so faithfully served for so many years. And today we have on the program two men who knew him well, loved him greatly, and benefited by his mentorship and friendship.

And I am looking forward to this program with bated breath. Both men have been on my program before, and if you listen regularly, you will no doubt recognize their names.

We have, first of all, joining us to discuss the life and legacy of Albert N.

Martin, a loving tribute in memory of the Gospel Lion of Montville, New Jersey.

We have joining us William Shishko, founding pastor of the Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Comac, Long Island, and a friend of mine for decades, since the 1980s.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Bill Shishko.

Great to be back with you, Chris, and I'm like you, I'm very excited about the topic we're dealing with today and the man we're dealing with.

Amen. And we also have joining us today another friend of Pastor Albert N.

Martin, D. Scott Meadows, who is author and pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Exeter, New Hampshire, and it's great to have you back on the program as well,

Pastor Meadows. Thank you very much, Chris, for the invitation.

It's an honor to speak about Pastor Martin to your hearers. Amen. And before we begin to hear from my guests,

I want to play a clip of a sermon by Pastor Martin that will,

I think, whet the appetites of our listeners to learn more about him and also to look up and listen to his sermons on Sermon Audio and other places.

He is no doubt one of the most powerful voices for the gospel and the doctrines of sovereign grace in modern history, and I'm going to play this clip, which was his first sermon after the tragic events that occurred on January 28th in 1986, when the space shuttle known as Challenger exploded, killing all of its passengers.

And we're going to hear just a brief clip of Pastor Martin addressing that issue on the following Sunday of that year, and I hope that you are blessed by it.

And here we go. During this past week,

God in a very sobering, dramatic, and captivating manner has drawn the attention of our nation and much of the world to just how fragile and uncertain life is.

He did this by the events clustered around the launch and then the sudden destruction of the space shuttle

Challenger this past Tuesday morning. Now, while we seldom allow current events of any nature to dictate the subject matter of our pulpit ministry in this assembly, but rather are committed to consecutive, expository ministry of the word of God, there have been over the history of our almost 20 years as a church a few occasions when events of such magnitude either within the church or within the world have so captured our minds and our spirits as to demand that the teaching of the word of God, respecting those issues, be brought to bear upon them in the assembly of God's people.

Now, the precedent for doing this is clearly set by our

Lord himself, who, according to Luke chapter 13, took as an occasion to underscore some vital biblical truths to shocking current events in his day.

We read in Luke 13 in verse one that there were some present at that very seeing season who told him of the

Galileans whose blood piloted mingled with their sacrifices.

We know nothing for certain about this incident, but apparently there was an incident involving some

Galileans who were either as imposters or perhaps as innocent worshipers who had some political alliances that were threatening to pilot were nonetheless in the midst of offering up sacrifices in a place of worship, brutally slain so that their own life's blood was mingled with the blood of the sacrifices that were offered.

It was the tragic, sudden, brutal death of some

Galileans. And then we read in verse two that Jesus said,

Do you think that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans because they suffered these things?

I tell you no, but except you repent, you shall all likewise perish or.

And now he takes a second current event or a recent event in which there was the tragic death of 18 people crushed to death when a tower in Siloam fell upon them.

Here was an event that caused a thrill of shock to go through Jerusalem when people heard that a tower fell upon 18 so -called innocent victims and they were snuffed out in a moment of time.

Here, our Lord takes a second current event that captured the attention of men and women and used it as the occasion to bring to bear upon the living some vital biblical principles of the moral government of Almighty God.

And that's just during the introduction to his sermon. You could imagine, those of you who have not yet heard

Albert and Martin preach, how that built up to an even more bold and powerful crescendo.

But if anybody wants to look up that sermon, it took place on February 2nd of 1986, the

Sunday following the tragedy that occurred in the late

January of that year, January 28th, when the Challenger space shuttle exploded.

So I hope that you look that up and listen to it in its entirety and also other sermons by Pastor Albert and Martin.

Well, Pastor Bill Shishko, I recall, even though I was not a pastor since I was employed in the

Christian radio industry, you used to invite me every year to your pastors' conferences at the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church where you were pastoring at that time, before you planted the haven in Comac.

And I just remember how blown away I was by Pastor Martin's preaching.

It was my introduction to him. And if you could explain what you know about Pastor Albert and Martin and why he became such a valued mentor of yours.

I'm so thankful, Chris, for this opportunity. I've thought of the text Proverbs 10 and verse 7, the memory of the righteous is blessed.

And that I think over and over again, as I think of a very dear friend and mentor, Pastor Martin, I've had privilege to have four big mentors in my life as a pastor, but clearly he was top of the list as far as a pastoral mentor.

And that sermon, some biblical perspectives on the destruction of the space shuttle

Challenger, without exaggeration, I think that's the most powerful sermon I have ever heard in my life.

And I'd urge people to listen to that. Well, Albert and Martin, just to give some background here,

Pastor Martin was raised in Christian home, and actually he was one of 11 children, but he wasn't converted until his senior year or his years of high school.

He did have a very sensitive conscience and a fear of God's judgment. But you're talking about the conversion of a man who's been described as having rightly considerable native intelligence, zeal, and energy, devoted to his conversion to schoolwork, football, and baseball.

But for the rest of his long life, these things would be harnessed for the cause of Christ.

And this was a man whose mind and heart were captive to the Word of God. He studied at Bob Jones University and Columbia Bible College, graduated magna cum laude in 1956 from Columbia Bible College, was married to his first wife,

Marilyn Hart, in June of 1956. They were married for 48 years and blessed with three children.

Later, after Mrs. Martin was called home in 2004, Pastor Martin married

Dorothy Chansky. She pre -deceased him in 2020. But it's a minister that we know him, and Pastor Martin had an itinerant evangelistic ministry from 1957 to 1961.

And then when his first son, Joel, was born, he realized that he needed to be home more. And so in September of 1962, he received a call to be the pastor of a

Christian Missionary and Alliance Church in North Caldwell, New Jersey, which is about an hour from New York City.

During that time, he was befriended by the late Ernie Reisinger, who was to become the first U .S.

trustee of the Banner of Truth Trust in 1967. And the Lord used

Ernie Reisinger to get Pastor Martin reading classics of the Reformed faith.

A .W. Pink's work, the one that was so influential with him as he wrestled with the doctrine of the atonement, the death of death, and the death of Christ by John Owen.

And it took about a decade. Pastor Martin wrestled for these issues and came to Reformed Christianity as his conviction, and served in that church in North Caldwell from 1962 to 1966.

But he really was not able to stay in the Christian Missionary and Alliance. They had different views, particularly about the continuance of the special gifts of the

Spirit. So they disbanded as a church and actually reconstituted in about a year or so later, in September of 1967, after Pastor Martin took,

I think, about nine months just to go through biblical doctrine, what a church is, and so on.

And they were reconstituted in 1967 as Trinity Baptist Church, committed to the 1689

Baptist Confession of Faith. Pastor Martin was pastor there for 46 years.

And just a note on this, we'll come to this a bit later, you cannot understand Pastor Martin apart from his high view of the church.

There are those that rightly emphasize the doctrines of grace, what's called experimental

Calvinism in the Christian life. And of course, Pastor Martin shared all of those concerns, but he was a churchman.

And that's important to understand. There's many other things you could say.

I think probably the most telling story, and I actually heard Pastor Martin mention this with tears in his eyes, he had been invited to preach in Leicester, England, at the

Banner of Truth Ministers Conference. He was only 34 years old at the time. And Professor John Murray had been invited to speak for those three evening meetings.

This was in 1967. When he knew Pastor Martin was going to be there,

Professor Murray knew of Pastor Martin. And he said, if Al Martin is to be there,

I really think he should be asked to take the three evening services you propose for me.

This is Professor John Murray, who was revered at Westminster Seminary, where he taught for many years and over in the

United Kingdom. Professor Murray said, Pastor Martin is one of the ablest and moving preachers

I've ever heard. In recent years, I've not heard his equal. My memory of preachers goes back 60 years.

So when I say he's one of the ablest, this is an assessment that includes very memorable preachers of the past and the present.

And that's exactly right. Pastor Martin was in a category all of his own as a preacher. I'd go so far as to say the finest of the preachers that we had in the

United States in the latter part of the 20th century. Amen.

And your particular friendship with him. I mean,

I know that you are a diehard Presbyterian, and yet one of your most valued mentors was a

Reformed Baptist. Tell us about this friendship. Yeah, it's been fun reflecting all of this.

In fact, when I was at the memorial service, I thought, wow, I didn't think I knew this man more than those that spoke there.

But I first heard Al Martin on a cassette tape. I don't know if your listeners know what cassette tapes are anymore.

The Mount Olive Tape Library that emanated from Mississippi began sending out tapes from the

Trinity Pulpit that began in 1971. I was in college, and I'd come to the

Reformed faith in my sophomore year and somehow heard about Al Martin and got those.

And I actually corresponded with him, probably somewhere in my file. He was an avid correspondent, and I don't know how he could keep up with everybody.

But I'll never forget the response that he sent to me. He had at the end, yours in the gracious bonds of Jesus Christ.

I thought, well, what a beautiful, beautiful way of expressing things. And he was a wordsmith. When I was in college,

I lived up in Connecticut. I would be up in Connecticut during that time. And my mother and I actually drove all the way down to Essex Spells, New Jersey.

I think it was, oh, it was toward the end of the year, 1973, I believe. That's when the

Trinity Baptist Church met in what they called the Cracker Box in Essex Spells, New Jersey.

By then I'd become a Presbyterian. And wouldn't you know, that Sunday morning, he preached on baptism as for believers only.

And I teased him at the door. It was the first time I actually met him personally. And I teased him at the door.

I said, I drove all the way down from Northeastern Connecticut as a Presbyterian to hear this message on baptism.

And he said to me with his robust voice, only for the veracity of the scriptures, my brother.

During seminary years, I was at Westminster Seminary from 1976 to 1979.

And periodically, my wife Margaret and I would drive up to New Jersey. Then they were meeting in a huge gymnasium as they were trying to get the facility that they were in now built.

But it was really in 1991, I'd been called to the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square after doing a short stint as an organizing pastor for a church in South Carolina.

I gave him a phone call, and he said to me, paused a bit, and he said, you've been called up to New York because he was where Pastor Martin was in Montville, New Jersey, lived in Verona.

But where he was was the other side of the two rivers that demarcate

Manhattan Island. So we were a couple rivers apart, but the cultures are very similar in many ways.

And I remember after I told him I'd been called to Franklin Square, he paused a bit and said,

Bill, within six months, you're going to start wondering whether you're crazy or called.

And there will be some days that you won't know the difference. He was all man, he was all hearty.

And then from there, that's when I actually began to listen. I'm looking forward to hearing Scott talk about his pastoral theology series.

But I, with many, many other young ministers, we cut our teeth on his cassette series on pastoral theology, which

I think ended up being about 70 cassette tapes or so. And connected with that,

I'd visit, go to his study in Verona, New Jersey, usually a couple of times a year, just with loads of questions about church discipline, about church government, about handling pastoral cases, and so on.

And I was amazed that this man who was so busy would take the time to be with this Orthodox Presbyterian minister.

But all that material was foundational for me. In fact, what's interesting, and Scott, you'll be interested in this, when

I was asked to teach the Reformed Pastor class at Greenville Seminary, which

I did from 2001 to 2016, and also asked to teach similar material for the

Ministerial Training Institute of the OPC, I got Pastor Martin's permission to use a lot of his material.

I mean, Pastor Martin was like a vacuum cleaner when it came to material on pastoral theology.

He had absorbed all of these things, and I was able to build on that. It wasn't anything that I'd read that he hadn't read.

And actually, that material that I gave there, I called it a Presbyterianized version of Pastor Martin, and he graciously gave me permission.

But I must tell this anecdote. Scott, I don't even think you know this one. It's a lesser -known anecdote about Pastor Martin.

He would come each year to minister for the Reformed Ministers Fellowship, which

I think, Chris, you attended sometime, that we'd have at Franklin Square. And it was a real delight after that time.

I had him for myself. He'd come to our house, and he'd toss the football with our boys.

We had five sons, and I think three of them were about the age that they could throw the football then, and then we would take him and Marilyn out for dinner and chat.

And those hours together were absolutely priceless. But I must tell this story. I was so thankful for our elders in Franklin Square.

When it came to those that filled the pulpit, so long as they obviously held to the

Reformed faith, and particularly the Doctrines of Grace, the pulpit was open to them.

We didn't draw the line at church government and baptism. The elders wanted to have a united front about commitment to the biblical gospel.

So with a certain amount of temerity, I'm not sure when this was.

It might have been about 1993 or so, we were hosting what's called a Presbytery meeting, which is a regional group of Orthodox Presbyterian churches and their ministers and elders from what was called

Presbytery of New York and Wingland. And so I asked our elders, I said, we had a worship service that evening when

Ben would gather on a Monday evening, and I said, may we have Pastor Al Martin come to speak for our

Presbytery meeting? And there was no dissent, because they knew of him, and one of our elders was actually quite close with him, and they knew certainly that he wouldn't deal with baptism or church government, but he would preach the gospel.

And so he came, I think it was a September 1993, and he preached for an hour and 10 minutes, which is really something for Orthodox Presbyterians, and he preached on the distinguishing traits of effective preaching.

There are ministers today that I still work with who were at that meeting who will say they were permanently impacted by that message, the distinguishing traits of effective preaching, but a couple of anecdotes connected with it that are humorous, and they'll give you a window on Pastor Martin.

One will give you a little window on certain things that happen in the Orthodox Presbyterian church, but a couple of the ministers were very, in fact, a number of ministers were very upset.

One minister said later, I can't believe that you would subject us to a lecture from this

Baptist, to which I responded, and he was a father in the faith, and I was respectful, but I said, that was not a lecture, that was a sermon, we needed to hear that.

Anyway, there were two ministers who were very, very upset that Pastor Martin was preaching, and in the middle of his sermon on distinguishing traits of effective preaching, they walked out, left the front doors of the church open so that they could be seen by Pastor Martin as he preached there at the

Orthodox Presbyterian church in Franklin Square, and they each smoked a cigarette and came back in.

At the very point Pastor Martin was dealing with the minister's life and the uses and abuses of Christian liberty, now this is how attuned this man was in preaching, as intense as he was, he could see these guys go out, and of all things, he was dealing with the use or abuse of Christian liberty, and as they walked and sat down, he said, now men,

I would not take away from you for a moment your right to enjoy a glass of beer or a glass of wine or even a cigarette, but if it's your liberty and not your vice, give it up for three months.

You talk about the situational application, and then at one point he blasted

Robert Schuller, who started this positive thinking kind of a ministry.

Schuller was very popular at the time in his book on the so -called New Reformation, but Pastor Martin just blasted the heresy of this man, which was, and there was a minister that was visiting that night, and he was kind of a simpering type of fellow, and in the talk he said,

Pastor Martin, I appreciated your message, but I think you were a little bit too hard on Robert Schuller, and Pastor Martin says, my friend, until that man repents of his heresy, it would be better that the floor would open up and swallow me up if I didn't call him the heretic that he is.

And that was the man. Now, and I'll stop for a moment,

I've got your ads coming, I keep going, but if you only knew

Pastor Martin, and I think Scott will agree with this, if you only knew Pastor Martin as a preacher though, you really didn't know the man.

A powerful preacher, committed, but godly, gracious, gentle, kind,

I mean, he was no holds barred when it came to departure from what the

Word of God taught, but that man was a shepherd. So I'll stop my, as you put it before,

Scott, bloviating from it, but boy, I got some more stories to tell you when time comes. Great. And by the way,

I thought it was profound when Pastor Martin, your ongoing

Reformed Baptist speaker at all of your Reformed ministers' fellowship meetings, could no longer continue being your speaker.

I can't remember exactly what the reasons were, might've been his age, might've been his schedule just getting too packed, but you stopped having the annual

Reformed ministers' fellowship meeting when he could no longer do it. Scott Martin, Jr.

That was the highlight. We had four of them a year. He would always come, I think, in September, and that was always the highlight.

We had several dozen ministers that would be here to hear him. I remember at one point his topic was character of a

Reformed ministry today, and his line was, he said,

Brothers, if you're going to be a true minister of Christ, your life will be a gradual self -immolation, and every time you minister, some of you will go, and it will not come back.

I don't know that I've ever heard a comment about Reformed ministry that has been as impacting as that one, but that also epitomizes that man for whom who did nothing half -heartedly.

We have to go to our first commercial break. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question about the late

Albert N. Martin, please restrict your questions to Pastor Martin, to the subject of Pastor Martin, I mean, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back.

If you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we are paying tribute to the late

Albert N. Martin, who I have nicknamed the Gospel Lion of Montville, New Jersey.

And we have as our guest today two friends of Pastor Martin who both viewed him not only as a great and close and cherished friend, but also as a valuable mentor to each of them.

Bill Shishko, founding pastor of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island, and D.

Scott Meadows, who is an author and also pastor of Calvary Baptist Church, a

Reformed Baptist congregation in Exeter, New Hampshire. And let's pick up with Pastor Scott.

How did you first become aware of Pastor Martin, and what would you like to add to the conversation in regard to any background on Pastor Martin, and also to anecdotes just like Pastor Bill has provided?

For some reason, Scott is on mute, and we're waiting for Scott to reconnect.

All right, I'm back. By the way, you don't have to do that during the commercial break, so I mute you on my end. All right, thank you.

I really appreciate your choice of topic for this broadcast, Chris, and also for inviting my longtime friend

Bill Shishko as well to be a guest on it. We met each other actually in connection with Al Martin's annual conferences at Trinity Baptist Church of Montville, probably back in the middle 90s when

I started to attend that conference. If you might indulge me to give a testimony about my own development briefly,

I was raised in independent fundamental Baptist or Bible churches in my teenage years and early 20s, and they were dispensational and not particularly

Calvinistic. But as I studied the Bible and got some good literature,

I turned toward the doctrines of grace, at least in an inconsistent way in the early days.

And the Banner Truth magazine was very helpful to me to come to more of a

Reformed conviction about theology and church history, appreciation for that.

And so I started in the pastoral ministry at Exeter in 1991, and I was seeking a more like -minded fellowship of ministers than what

I had enjoyed up to that point. And I came to be aware, first of all, of the

Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan in the early 90s.

And I was so captivated by their philosophy of pastoral care to the congregants.

It was a close, personal pastoral care they practiced there. I had never been in a church that had that kind of intimacy between the pastors and the members.

So I took a trip to Grand Rapids with a pastor friend in 1993, and it was pivotal in my own personal reformation toward confessionalism and identification with Reformed theology.

And a year later, I had come to adopt the 1689 as my own understanding and confession of the faith.

My stumbling block was especially Sunday as the Christian Sabbath or the

Lord's Day. Of course, that was not believed in dispensational circles where I was.

And so Grand Rapids was my first sort of connection with Reformed Baptists.

But it's a 17 -hour drive from New Hampshire. So I found out about two

Reformed Baptist pastors' fellowships in my region. One was in upstate

New York, brethren with whom I still fellowship to this day.

And the other was in Montville, New Jersey. And so I attended both of those, but I can't explain exactly why except maybe it was

Pastor Martin's attractiveness to me. I chose to go regularly to the

Montville, New Jersey pastors' meetings and conferences. So that would have been in the middle 90s.

And I have to say, now that I've been shepherding the congregation of Exeter in New Hampshire for 35 years next month, um, no, no one has been a more important mentor to me, both as a

Christian, first of all, who seeks to live with integrity, and as a pastor, secondly, than Albert N.

Martin, hands down the most important mentor I've ever had, spiritual mentor in my life.

Yeah, he was an interesting man. And even though I had not been hosting my own radio program at this time,

I was still working as an account executive and airtime salesman for WMCA, 570

AM in New York. I worked there for 15 years before I launched

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Uh, on the several occasions where I met

Pastor Martin, since he had been sponsoring his program,

God's Word to Our Nation, on WMCA, that was not my client.

They were already on the air before I got there. But he knew that I was the only

Calvinist at WMCA. And on the few occasions that I would see him at a conference or something, he knew, he remembered exactly who

I was. You're the Calvinist at WMCA. You keep up the good work there.

We need people like you in every sphere of the Christian life.

You know, he was going on and on. And I can remember him saying to me, you know something? I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal about this

Harold Camping fellow. That man drives me nuts. Now you, you have timber in your voice.

You should be running that radio network. But what a blessed time that was to get a compliment like that from him.

We have a listener in Brooklyn, New York, named Andrew, and he says, if Pastor Martin were here today, what

Bible passage would he be most eager to preach to our nation?

I love his series on God's Word to Our Nation from the 1980s and also 1990s.

But what, I mean, obviously this would involve you to be prophets, but do you have any comments on,

Pastor Bill, we'll start with you since we heard from Pastor Scott last. Do you have any ideas on that?

I could almost imagine with that beautiful baritone voice of his from the

Proverbs, righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people.

Amen. I'd be interested in what Scott thinks. Yeah. What do you think, Scott? Well, a couple of passages jumped to my mind.

Most of the times when I heard Pastor Martin in person, he was addressing pastors.

And so passages like Acts chapter 20 and Paul's charge to the

Ephesian elders and 2 Timothy chapter four about preaching the

Word and being instant in season and out of season. And also the text that says, take heed to yourself and to the doctrine, and in doing this, you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Those were some of the texts that were especially associated with Pastor Martin in my experience of his ministry.

We have another listener named

Jacqueline in Elwood, Long Island. And Jacqueline asks, is there anything about Pastor Martin's ministry that actually made either of you change direction in what you were doing as pastors in any way, shape, or form?

Any thoughts on that, Pastor Bill? That's a very, very thoughtful question, which is difficult to give an answer on the spot.

I'm not sure I'm exactly answering the question, but as I mentioned before, let me use this as an illustration.

Banner of Truth Trust is wonderful for emphasizing the history of the

Reformed faith and revivals and what we call experimental

Calvinism. Thank God for the Banner of Truth Trust. But I remember once I was speaking with Pastor Martin, and I mentioned that I was, well,

I appreciated the Banner Conferences. It was kind of going over turf that I was more familiar with.

And as a pastor, my heart beat more to the kinds of things

Scott mentioned before about pastoral care and so on. And he, without any criticism of the

Banner of Truth, he said the same thing. He said, basically, we're churchmen. So to answer Jacqueline's good question,

I don't know that it set me in a different course, but Pastor Martin's preaching and what

I saw at Trinity Baptist Church, well, I had differences. I mean, Trinity Baptist Church was pretty much independent, although it had a gathering of other ministers.

Obviously, I hold a household baptism, not infant baptism. And I do not believe that all,

I believe that there's a distinction within the eldership between those who rule and teach and those who primarily focus on teaching.

But those are in -house discussions. But that passion to see what the

Bible said about local church government, that forged me as a minister, for which

I will be eternally grateful. We're churchmen. So that would be my answer.

And again, a very, very good question. I don't know if there was anything that I stopped doing. Well, I certainly was convicted.

If you were to take heed to yourself and to your teaching, any time I would hear him preach,

I was always convicted of the importance of personal holiness and guarding my own walk.

But it was that passion for what the Word of God said about the local church, especially the shepherding of God's people, as Scott mentioned, and when you rule in the church, it's

Christ's rule through this people. And Scott, any thoughts?

Sure. So one thing Bill is talking about is the integration of the holy life with the public ministry that Pastor Martin both illustrated and emphasized in his discipleship of pastors, especially.

One saying that comes to mind about him that I think he would be pleased to hear me repeat this on the radio broadcast today is this.

He used to say, the life of the man of God is the life of his ministry. And I think that's a great statement as long as it's unpacked and properly qualified, because Christ ultimately is the life of our ministry by the

Word and Spirit. However, Pastor Martin knew that and understood that as well.

He's just emphasizing the high importance of ministering with true spiritual ethical integrity, and he was an inspiration to me to at least seek to imitate his example on that.

When it comes to pastoral care of individual church members, another thing he would say to us is, brothers, get your fingers in the wool of the sheep.

And by that he meant pastoring isn't just preaching a sermon and forgetting about everybody between Sundays, but it's actually loving people on a personal and individual level and being there as their mentors and counselor and friend.

And that was very much influential upon me and my approach to ministry.

Several times in this broadcast, Bill has been talking about the Baptist -Presbyterian differences that exist among us.

And I have to say that in my thinking and attitude over decades,

I observed God doing this in my life and thinking, I have an ever -increasing appreciation for doctrinal precision, and I am a subscriber to the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, the same as Pastor Martin, which is so much of its substance comes right out of the

Westminster Confession of Faith, too. And so we care, Bill does as I do, we care about our distinctives, whether we are

Presbyterian or Baptist. But one thing I saw as well in Pastor Martin was a true catholicity of spirit toward those whom he knew had differences of judgment about some things with him.

And as I have studied 17th -century English particular Baptists and those behind the 1689,

I have been delighted to see that those brethren were also disposed to have a great regard for their fellow pastors and ministers in those days, especially those who were

Presbyterian and Congregationalist and differed on points either of baptism or church government.

So at the same time that I have a more focused care for even what some might think are minutiae of theological predication, the ultimate

Christian virtue, of course, is love. And if we do not have love supremely to God and unselfishly to our fellow man, our ministries are empty and nothing.

And the body of Christ composed of all believers certainly includes

Baptists and Presbyterians, so we love the brethren for the sake of our common

Lord, Jesus Christ. And in New Hampshire, then, you know, there aren't many or any that I know of really committed 1689

Reformed Baptists. Practically most of my pastoral fellowship on a close level is with OPC ministers, actually.

So I am the token Baptist at our Granite State Reformed Ministers Fellowship, the rest are

Presbyterian men. Tom, I so appreciate Scott saying that. It took the words out of my mouth, holy catholicity.

We're not talking about Roman Catholic here, which is a contradiction in terms, but catholicity, a catholicity of spirit.

I think of John Owen and John Bunyan who were contemporary, and John Owen was brilliant, so was

Bunyan. But John Owen would say that he would sacrifice all of his learning for the ability to preach one sermon like that tinker.

That kind of spirit we need to have, and it's united around really what the gospel is, it's around the doctrines of grace, which is the gospel.

You know, it's interesting, when I was working at WMCA radio from 1991 to somewhere in the

I had developed a number of friendships with independent fundamentalist

Baptist pastors, and they all seemed to grow to love me, even though most of them absolutely despised my

Calvinism. And even though most of these men were at some level of anti -Calvinism in their thinking, to the man, every one of them that I remember having conversations with, when

Al Martin came up in conversation for one reason or another, they would all say, now

Al Martin, there's no denying, that man was one of the most powerful preachers I ever heard.

So even from the mouths of anti -Calvinists, they couldn't deny what a powerful preacher he was, thundering from the pulpit.

And before we go to our midway break, do either of you have any more anecdotes that you'd like to share?

I got a great one, but I'm going to save it for the end. I do want to say this, and let me speak a little bit about, just quickly,

I know you've got the commercial, Pastor Martin's first wife, we also knew Dorothy Chansky, his second wife, but Margaret and I were very close with his first wife,

Marilyn. And this is an example, again, of the love they had for the church, when after Margaret had delivered our sixth child, she went through a protracted period of postpartum depression, and it was a very difficult time for both of us.

But for several weeks, every Saturday at 10 .30, Marilyn would call Margaret just to check to see how she was doing and to pray with her.

And I thought, this is remarkable. They were not part of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, it was

Trinity Baptist Church, it was very busy. But that commitment to a sister in Christ really even transcended that local church commitment.

But we will be eternally thankful for that. And Margaret's given me permission to use that illustration.

Any anecdotes of your own, Scott? Yes, one comes to mind, especially since we're talking about his first wife,

Marilyn. I also knew her, not so well, but I did see her in the church and got a little bit acquainted.

But I was around in the year that Marilyn died, and I remember going down to the

Trinity Baptist Church for the memorial service for Mrs.

Martin, the first Mrs. Martin. And Pastor Martin's soul was just as intensely sensitive to emotional matters as he was bold in preaching.

He was a sensitive man, a tender man. And I remember him saying to us how difficult it was for him after his wife died emotionally.

And he used the expression, my heart is broken in 10 ,000 pieces,

I think he said, and I don't know how to put them back together again. And so I knew he was devastated by the loss of his first wife.

But when I went down to the memorial service, there was a time when the guests were allowed to file past Pastor Martin and the casket of Mrs.

Martin. And I was in that line, and I was watching him. And he was warm and caring toward the people who filed past to show their sympathy and respects.

And it seemed very clear to me that he was not taking this as an occasion for his own comfort, but that he was seeing the sadness of those who also loved his wife.

And he was standing there generously comforting and counseling those mourners beside his wife's coffin.

I'll never forget that. Amen. Well, we are going now to our midway break. And once again, if you'd like to join us with a question of your own, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please keep your questions specifically on the life and legacy of Albert and Martin.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight volume commentary go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a Christ -centered gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York and play our role in fulfilling the

Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.

At Lindbrook Baptist Church we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lindbrookbaptist .org,

that's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast of the

Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. Hi, this is

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

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I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area, or Queens, or Brooklyn, or the

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That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

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And folks, please, we are in urgent need of your financial help.

As many of you know, we lost one of our largest advertisers, a wonderful Christian bookstore that had been providing the finest in Reformed Christian literature at the most reasonable prices to a customer base globally, and they've been doing so for over 50 years.

And very sadly, they had to close their doors permanently just several months ago, and we subsequently lost one of our largest advertisers.

Please help us. Please replace and replenish that lost income. If you love the show and don't want it to go off the air, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. We're so thrilled that a

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So we really need your help for the rent coming up that is due and for utility bills and so on.

Please help us out. Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You could also advertise with us, whether it's your church, paratroop ministry, your business, your private practice, like a law firm, a medical firm, maybe it's just a special event.

Whatever it is, if it's compatible with my beliefs, I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible, because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as your donations.

So please send me an email to chrisharnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Now with all these urgent pleas of mine for your financial help,

I never want anybody in my audience to ever give their own church, where they're a member, less money than you normally give your church on the

Lord's Day in order to bless Siren Trip and Siren Radio. Never do that. And if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you bless us financially.

But having said that, if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, and you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and even trivial purposes, well, please share some of that money with us.

If you really love the show, go to irontripandsirenradio .com, click support, then click to donate now.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ -honoring, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, like the

Haven Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Long Island, and like the

Calvary Baptist Church, a Reformed Baptist congregation in Exeter, New Hampshire, I have helped people all over the planet earth in the

Iron Trip and Siren Radio audience find churches that are biblically faithful, as I just did recently with a listener who was looking for a

Reformed Baptist church for his family in a specific city in Mexico, and I found it for him, and hopefully they visited that congregation this past Lord's Day.

But that may be you too, no matter where you live. If you're without a biblically faithful church home, send me an email to chrisarensen at gmail .com,

chrisarensen at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Pastor Bill Shishko and Pastor D.

Scott Meadows on the life and legacy of Albert N. Martin. That's chrisarensen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Pastor Bill and Pastor Scott, I understand there's some specific books and booklets by L.

Martin, or perhaps written about L. Martin, that you want to promote during today's program that would be of great value to our listeners.

Yes, Chris, you also said that I could share my tribute, and that actually would be a good lead -in to the books, if you'll allow that.

Oh yeah, sure. Well, if you'd like to begin with the tribute, that'd be great. All right. In preparing lectures on William Perkins and his pastoral theology,

I immersed myself in the thought of the man sometimes called the father of the Puritans.

As I worked through Perkins's vision of what a minister of the gospel ought to be, I found myself returning again and again, almost involuntarily, to the example of Albert N.

Martin. The portrait Perkins painted in the 16th century, I had beheld with my own eyes and heard with my own ears across decades of friendship and mentorship.

To write about the ideal pastor in the abstract while saying nothing of the man who embodied that ideal so fully seemed to me a kind of ingratitude

I could not afford. It is therefore a deep personal privilege to set this testimony down.

Albert N. Martin, who entered the presence of his Lord on April 7th, 2026, was to me the dearest of friends and the most formative of mentors.

Whatever I have become as a faithful minister of the gospel, his fingerprints are on it.

Perkins insisted that the minister must be what he preaches to expect the greatest blessing upon his labors.

Pastor Martin fulfilled this aim with a consistency that continues to provoke my wonder and my gratitude.

Scripture was in him and came from him in a degree I have not seen in any other man.

He possessed an astonishing knowledge of the whole Bible together with extraordinary powers of recall, and he had the rare gift of bringing thousands of texts to bear on the actual circumstances of a person's life, a pastor's life, a family's life, and a congregation's life with precision, warmth, and authority.

He was equally at home standing at the back of the sanctuary, arms open to embrace the children who rushed to him after a service, and sitting quietly in his study working with patient care to counsel a struggling young minister toward clarity and courage.

In both settings, he was entirely himself and entirely for you.

His preaching was described by Edward Donnelly as powerful, impassioned, exegetically solid, balanced, clear in structure, and penetrating in application, attended by what

Donnelly called a peculiar degree of unction from the Spirit. Those of us who sat under it or who have returned to it in recordings made across half a century of ministry know exactly what

Donnelly meant. Yet Martin never permitted the weight of global ministry to produce the distance or inaccessibility that so often accompanies ministerial fame.

He answered letters promptly, opened his home freely, gave himself generously to younger men who had no particular claim on his time, and year after year pressed upon pastors what

Perkins would have recognized immediately as the right ordering of a life, that we are first Christians, then husbands and fathers, and only then ministers of the gospel.

He did not merely teach this priority, he kept it. Among the great privileges of my life was the opportunity to work closely with Pastor Martin as his editor in his retirement years, collaborating on several books in the kind of partnership that only deepens with time and trust.

Each of those works bears the marks of the man, but his crowning achievement in print is certainly the three -volume

Pastoral Theology. By the time that work was being readied for the press,

Pastor Martin and I had arrived at something I treasure beyond what I can easily say, an intimate like -mindedness as author and editor, the fruit of long friendship and shared labor in the

Word. He earnestly desired that he would finish well. By the grace of God and to the wonder of all who watched,

I am grateful to say that he did. In Albert Martin, Perkins' vision of the godly, learned, and diligent pastor was not a theoretical construction, but a flesh -and -blood reality, a gift of God to his generation, and a model now commended to this and every generation that follows.

I thank God with a full heart for the blessed memory of Pastor Albert N. Martin. May the

Lord give us much grace to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Amen. Amen.

Amen. And you want to tell us about some of these books that you'd like to highlight? Sure. Well, the most important should go first,

I suppose, and that is this three -volume set which has been warmly received across a broad fellowship of men in churches called

Pastoral Theology. And these were the end product of his

Pastoral Theology course that he taught repeatedly at the Trinity Ministerial Academy.

And in his fourth or fifth time through that material, constantly being enhanced and improved, he was recorded by video and audio, and I think those

DVDs may still be available even online for free, but those lectures—I believe there were 108—were converted into text form suitable for books and then carefully edited to make up these three volumes.

Volume 1 is called The Man of God, His Calling and Godly Life, with a brief biography of Albert N.

Martin. Volume 2 is on The Man of God, His Preaching and Teaching Labors, and Volume 3 is

The Man of God, His Shepherding, Evangelizing, and Counseling Labors. And something that Bill said earlier is so true about Pastor Martin's teaching in this area.

He was not an innovator. He was a student of masters of the craft, especially of preaching, but also in the topic of Pastoral Theology.

So when you read these books, it's not merely Al Martin's own opinions or exegesis and views.

He is mining some of the best material from the tradition of Pastoral Theology, and citing those great thinkers and pastors and preachers again and again and again in these books.

That integration with the tradition highly elevates the set, I think, for its value today.

Tom Hanks And Bill, do you have anything to add? Well, the Presbyterian's got to add at this point, the best place to get it and the best price.

I think we had mentioned Reformation Heritage Books has the three volumes for $91, and I think probably shipping is picked up if you pay that amount too.

But really, that's the place to get the three volumes. But there are also a number of shorter ones that are excellent introductions.

One that I highly recommend is kind of an introduction to Pastor Martin is

The Practical Implications of Calvinism. These little booklets are also available through Reformation Heritage or Amazon, The Practical Implications of Calvinism.

All Preachers Should Read What's Wrong with Preaching Today, another booklet, excellent summary.

Others lesser known, The Forgotten Fear, Where Have All the God -Viewers

Gone, kind of a vintage Pastor Martin thing. Glorify God in Your Body, Whose Is It?

Yours or His. And then one that did impact me very much after it came out back in the 70s,

A Life of Principled Obedience, great introduction just to really what godliness is.

So, I highly recommend those. And again, they're available through Amazon, Reformation Heritage. Pastoral Theology, though, get it from Reformation Heritage.

And yes, Chris, I have a couple more. Okay, go ahead. If I can add, this is a little bibliography of Al Martin portion of the show.

There was another one, The Practical Implications of Calvinism. Did you mention that, Bill? And then here's one he did in retirement.

This was the first one he and I worked together on. It's called Preaching in the Holy Spirit, Reformation Heritage books.

I bought another copy of this just yesterday for a friend. Then there is this book,

You Lift Me Up, Overcoming Ministry Challenges by Albert N.

Martin. And it's superb and quintessential

Al Martin in its approach. And then I wanted to mention this one.

He wrote this after his first wife died. It's called Grieving Hope and Solace When a

Loved One Dies in Christ. Wow, I never heard of that one. Cruciform Press. And this was the product of some preaching he did in the church after he became a widower that was very personal because they were

Scripture texts that God brought home with power to his own brokenhearted experience.

And he wanted to share that with the church. And then there are two books I know of that have been written about Pastor Martin.

One is called My Heart for Thy Cause by Brian Borgman.

And that's a fairly old book, but it is an organized presentation of Al Martin on preaching, especially, with a little biography in it.

And then David Charles and Rob Ventura put together this festschrift in honor of Albert N.

Martin called A Workman Not Ashamed, forward by Joel Beakey.

And I've contributed, actually, one of the essays in this book on the doctrine of justification by faith alone in my personal collection.

These are almost all inscribed to me by Pastor Martin himself. My great friend and smarter brother,

Scott, thank you for everything. Actually, that's an inscription from David Charles, but I've got other things from Pastor Martin.

I'm certainly not smarter than Al Martin. I wouldn't make that claim. You just reminded me when you highlighted the book on grief he wrote after the death of his first wife, that I met my late wife at an

Al Martin conference. Bill, I don't know if you remember the Copeg Union Bible Church?

And the pastor had retired, and he retired before they had a replacement. He asked

Mike Gaydosh to fill in as a preacher there until they had a permanent replacement.

And one of the things Mike did to try to stir up interest in the community about the church was he invited

Al Martin to preach there at Copeg Union Bible Church. And by God's providence, that's where my wife also was in the audience, visiting from First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst.

And I was visiting there from Calvary Baptist Church in Amityville. And although I was already involved in a long -distance dating relationship with my first Christian girlfriend, as soon as that dating relationship ended—by her choice, by the way—I immediately contacted

Julie, and we began our own relationship, which led to marriage. But it's kind of an interesting connection.

I don't think that either of you mentioned this booklet, A Bad Record and a Bad Heart, by Al Martin.

That one is available at Chapel Library, and I'm so glad that Chapel Library changed the cover of this booklet from what it originally was just because of the positioning of the name of the author and the title.

Originally, they had at the top, Albert N. Martin, A Bad Record and a Bad Heart. But just as Chapel Library rightly chose to put

Al Martin's name at the bottom as the author. Let me, just in case

I forget to do it later, I want to give the websites of both of these sources for Al Martin's books.

We have Reformation Heritage Books. Their website is heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks .org.

And Chapel Library's website is chapellibrary .org,

chapellibrary .org. And I hope that all of you listening will take advantage of those books.

We do have another listener. We have Vernon in Brattleboro, Vermont.

And Vernon has a question for both of you. And Vernon says, now

I don't want to make Al Martin out to be the perfect pastor. No one is perfect other than Jesus Christ.

But at the same time, he was a unique and powerful pastor, as you are both confirming.

Is there anything that stands out in your minds so boldly evident in the preaching and ministry of Al Martin that you would highlight as things that are woefully neglected by Reformed churches today?

Well, let me start with Pastor Bill on that one. My dear brother, you would need a whole show to answer that question.

If I had to put it down to one, and there are great needs in Reformed churches.

My own denomination gives me great concerns at points, especially when it comes in preaching.

I'd have to say the lack of life -and -death earnestness, not just in preaching, but in all forms of pastoral ministry.

Whatever else you learn from Pastor Martin, it's that—life -and -death earnestness. Amen. And Scott?

Well, an anecdote comes to mind. When he was in that church, the fledgling

Trinity Baptist Church of Montville, he was deeply invested in discovering biblical ecclesiology so that this time he would be shepherding a church that was more truly and faithfully scriptural in all respects.

And one of the topics that was gripping his conscience in those days was the matter of the biblical qualifications for elders spelled out in 1

Timothy 3 and Titus 1. I've heard him a number of times say, now an overseer must be in 1

Timothy 3, and then the list of traits and qualifications follow that.

Well, when he read that and preached that, he had people within the church coming to him and saying, well,

Pastor Martin, all those traits in 1 Timothy 3, for example, are wonderful, and it would be great if we could have elders that had those traits.

But it's unrealistic to hold them as qualifications. Really, they should be more as ideals to be attained.

And he went back to the text and said, but it says an overseer must be blameless.

And he insisted on no compromise of the biblical standard in the practical selection and election of men to the office of elder or pastor in the church.

And so this is one instance of a general principle. Pastor Martin showed us and taught us to trust that what

God says in Scripture is actually to be applied in the church without compromise.

If it's in the Bible and that is the truth, we should not be afraid to trust the

Lord and do it His way, because it's His church and His authority in the

Scriptures. So that is a distinctive, I think, because too many are ready to soften the hard edges of Scripture or tone it down for pragmatic considerations.

And I'd add to that, I appreciate Scott bringing that up, I say amen and amen. He'd also say this, that the elder must be, the

Greek word is the same as, you must be born again. If you apply it, well, it's a good thing if a person is born again, but it's not necessary.

That's heresy. So he would cement that very, very important point to people.

We have Theodore in Brookings, Oregon, or Oregon, depending upon how you pronounce that.

Theodore says, you were mentioning the biblical ecumenism that L.

Martin practiced between Reformed Baptists as himself and Presbyterians.

Do you know of any literary heroes that he may have had or even close

Christian friendships that he had with men outside of both of those camps? Yes, sure.

All right, Scott, go ahead. Well, at the Trinity Pastors Conference, year after year,

Dr. Pastor Ted Donnelly from Northern Ireland was a featured preacher at this

Mostly Baptist conference, and Pastor Donnelly, I also loved and knew as a friend, and he was a very committed

Presbyterian with a commitment as well to exclusive psalmody and I think no musical instruments in worship and infant baptism and a different form of church government.

But they had such a close friendship and working collegial relationship, you would never understand that they were not in the same denomination together.

And so that's a real -life example. But what Pastor Martin and Pastor Donnelly, whom

I also loved and esteemed very highly, what they had in common was they were both eminently gifted and faithful gospel preachers.

So different from each other, but yet common in that commitment. I think Theodore, though, is asking specifically about men outside of both

Reformed Baptist and Presbyterian circles. Yes. I may be wrong in this,

Scott. You can correct me if I'm wrong. I would add John MacArthur to that. John MacArthur actually had

Pastor Martin speak out at the church there, and again, Scott, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was done with the understanding that Pastor Martin would have time with John MacArthur to talk with him,

I think, about the doctrine of the atonement. But that would be the example I would think of. And he later did become a

Five -Point Calvinist, by God's grace, John MacArthur, that I'm speaking of. And one time, and I don't know if it was at one of your fellowships in Franklin Square, Bill, but I remember he said something that really shocked me, and when someone asked—it was a

Q &A—who, in his opinion, was one of the best orators of the…or

Christian orators, I can't remember how he specifically phrased it. And Al Martin actually said, although the man is a heretic, and I do not endorse what he teaches, he was saying that one of the greatest orators that he ever heard was

Norman Vincent Peale. Yeah, yeah, I think, and he may have mentioned that too, I think that was when

John R. DeWitt talked about Harry Emerson Fosdick, who was a liberal in the 20s, but he was a tremendous orator, but I don't know.

I recall an anecdote from Pastor Martin's young preaching experience when he was in Chicago, and he went to visit and hear

A. W. Tozer, the famous A. W. Tozer… From the denomination that Al left.

Yes, and Tozer invited him into the pastor's study there and sort of interviewed him to figure out who he was, and before Pastor Martin left,

Tozer had prayed for God's blessing on his life and ministry. And I know, even though Tozer was no

Presbyterian or Baptist or confessional, as far as I know, nevertheless,

I'm sure Pastor Martin esteemed him and appreciated him in his fellowship. Yeah, he, among all non -Reformed

Christian preachers and authors, Tozer seems to be one of the most frequently quoted by Reformed people.

And we have to go to our final break right now, and if you have a question, you have to send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, country of residence. Don't go away.

We'll be right back. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Attoye, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and a toy from County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture, through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avenio, and thanks for listening. And by the way, one of my guests today,

Bill Shishko, has been a keynote speaker there as well. But this time around, on Thursday, October 1st, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, our keynote speaker will be

David A. Harrell, who is pastor of Calvary Bible Church in Joelton, Tennessee, and the author of a number of books, including

Why America Hates Biblical Christianity. This is open to all men in ministry leadership, pastors, elders, deacons, parachurch leaders, and we even open up the attendance to men making a difference for Christ in the workplace.

If you are in those categories, please send me an email if you'd like to register for free for this exciting event coming up on October 1st.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put pastorsluncheon in the subject line.

And we have a question from Joel in Iricana, and I hope

I'm not mispronouncing that, I -r -r -i -c -a -n -a in Alberta, Canada.

And Joel says, does anything come to mind in either of your guests that would be the best thing to repeat from Albert N.

Martin for young men training to become pastors? We'll go to Pastor Bill first.

I recommend the three volumes on Pastor Martin's Pastoral Theology that were edited by Brother Douglas Scott Meadows, available through Reformation Heritage Books for $91.

There you go. Do you have anything to add to that as far as any pithy statement, or if you want to plug another book,

Scott? It's a hard question to answer.

I think in substance we've suggested some of those things already. Well, I'd like each of you now to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding this modern -day hero of the faith now in glory with Christ, Albert N.

Martin. And Pastor Bill, if you could start. I must give you a couple of anecdotes.

Quick. They're quick ones. When the Trinity Ministerial Academy began in 1977—I don't know if they did it in the first year, but it was early on in Trinity Ministerial Academy's life—Pastor

Martin would send the Trinity Baptist Church, I guess, would send their students down to Pennsylvania, to Germantown, Pennsylvania, to visit with Dr.

Cornelius Van Til, who was probably the greatest apologist of the latter part of the 20th century.

And of course, they loved presuppositional apologists, simply because it's the defense of the faith that's opened up in the

Scriptures, quite frankly. And Dr. Van Til loved those times with the Trinity Ministerial Academy students.

And once when I was with Dr. Van Til, I asked him, I said, Dr. Van Til, who are your favorite preachers?

And he thought a minute—this was when he was up in his early 90s, sometimes memory evaded him a bit—but he said, well, my favorite is

Herman Hoeksema, who was what we know as Protestant Reform Minister in Grand Rapids.

But he said, my second favorite is that Baptist fellow from New Jersey.

He couldn't remember Al Martin, but he said, that man quotes more Scripture in his sermon than anybody else

I know, and it's in context, too. The other one,

I had to save this best for last. I don't think even Scott, you can top this one. I think it was the last phone call that I had with Pastor Martin, maybe two years ago, two and a half years ago, because the end of his life, he was really not able to communicate real well.

But we were on the phone, and the two things that stand out in my mind, one is normally

I'd have him close our times in prayer. The only time he said, he said, Bill, please let me, would you lead in prayer?

He said, I just can't grasp the words the way I'd want, and I was in tears by the time I heard that.

But I made this statement to him. I said, Pastor Martin, you are too much of a

Baptist for Presbyterians, and you're too much of a Presbyterian for Baptist.

His response was, Bill, I will gladly take the opprobrium.

I leave you with that. Wow. And Scott?

Well, most of the people probably around the world who know the name

Albert N. Martin and have heard his preaching did not have the privilege that Bill and I and you,

Chris, had to know him in the flesh, outside of the pulpit. But while the spirituality and ethics of the man are consistent both publicly and privately, the personality of the man is quite different in the pulpit from his private persona.

And the boldness of his preaching could lead, I think, some who didn't know him to think that he was like that all the time in boldness.

But he was warm and loving and gracious and sensitive to other people's feelings and all the things you could say nice about him that way.

And so just to give one illustration of this, I was down at a conference with my wife,

Kathy, of 44 1⁄2 years, and whenever Pastor Martin would see my wife and me, he would warmly give me a shoulder hug and then kiss my wife on the cheek with great affection, you know.

And we were greeting him like this every day for several days at this conference we were attending.

And finally, I was noticing this. I said, Pastor Martin, I think you're kissing my wife more than I am at this conference.

And he gave me a light punch in the chest, you know, and he was pretty amused by that comment

I made to him. Well, I want to thank each of you for carving such a large portion of your daily schedule out to be on the show with me today, to introduce

Albert N. Martin to a whole new audience, and also to bless those that knew him well or at least were greatly benefited by his preaching.

I want to make sure that our listeners have both of your websites.

First of all, The Haven, which is an Orthodox Presbyterian congregation in Comac, Long Island, their website is thehavenli .org.

And before I mention Pastor Scott's contact information, Bill, is there anything we should know about The Haven that's coming up in the near future?

I'm in a good position to answer, because as of two weeks ago, I was called as an evangelist of our

Presbytery. But if you'll go on that website, they always have a lot of exciting things coming up.

I think they're planning a men's meet and greet in the near future, which you'll enjoy, not least because we have a chef,

Parix Alons, who does the cooking. I commend them for The Haven, Long Island at Comac.

And Pastor D. Scott Meadows, I know that the website for Calvary Baptist Church, a

Reformed Baptist congregation in Exeter, New Hampshire, has a website, and I just had it in front of me, and it's gone.

Can you give that to us, please? I can. It's cbcexeterreform .org.

Yes, and Exeter is E -X -E -T -E -R. That's right, cbcexeterreform .org.

And I would give them my email as well, dscottmeadows at gmail .com,

if anyone wanted to inquire. And once again, the location, the websites for purchasing

Pastor Martin's books, the first is heritagebooks .org,

heritagebooks .org, and you can also go for that one booklet by Pastor Martin, Chapel Library's website, chapellibrary .org,

chapellibrary .org. Thank you so much, brethren, for being absolutely superb guests.

I want to thank everybody who listened. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater