Navigating the Social Media Minefield: Andrew Rappaport on Pastors and Ethics

Welcome to another edition of The Rap Report, I'm your host Andrew Rapoport, the Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a proud member.

I have something a little bit different for you folks today. What we're going to be doing is I'm playing an episode that just dropped on the Dead Man Walking podcast. Greg had me on. He wanted to discuss pastors, ethics, social media.

This is in light of the issue with Josh Bice. Now, you're going to hear some things as my audience you have never heard me speak about. You're going to hear things that, well, you didn't know about. Things that had been going on behind the scenes for years because it's not my way of dealing with things to blast other people.

My goal is to help to educate people in my audience, help educate those to live more like Christ. And part of that's also having to be an example, even when it's hard. Yep, that's right, folks. Sometimes it's really hard to walk the Christian life and we have to be able to take things that come against us.

And so there's going to be a little bit here that's more personal, that Greg made it that.

Way.

I told Greg that, hey, I'm okay with talking about these things in general. I don't want to talk about the specifics. He kind of ended up making it where it was no way to avoid some of the specifics. So it's something where I am putting this out there so that people can see, how do we deal with the whole issue when someone like a Josh Bice falls and we think he failed us?

So there's things like that we could deal with. But I mean, there's a lot more to my story that's not obviously in this podcast. But I did think it would be helpful for you in my audience to hear some of what happened, but more so just that you could see, how do we deal with these things?

Because a lot of people are addressing this fact that's out there. I have strong opinions with some of these things that I'm still keeping private. And the fact is, is I think that this might be helpful for you.

If any of this catches you, my audience, off guard that you didn't know some of this was happening, I'll just say, you can feel free to reach out to me. I've never hidden away from the things. The reason some people like Greg and others know is because people would hear things, they would come to me, and I may not go public with things I don't do.

But if asked, I don't shy away from explaining things that happened to me or things that go on. But I do want to try to protect people. Even if I think they're wronging me, I want to protect their reputation where I can.

So I hope this is helpful for you. And what you're going to hear now is from the Deadman Walking podcast, a podcast I follow and I encourage you to do the same. So give a listen.

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Josh Bice, Social Media Ethics, and the Burden of Public Failure

Discussing the Josh Bice situation and how Christians and especially pastors should handle social media. Stick around. Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between. Broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now.

Well, hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. As always, find out more about us at dmwpodcast .com. Follow us on social media. Make sure you share with a friend, and thank you for doing that.

Help keep the pirate ship afloat. We appreciate your support. And check out our merch on our merch store there at dmwpodcast. Got some snarky stuff for you, t-shirts, mugs, hats, all that good stuff.

Every little bit helps us to go to conferences, travel, do all those things. Absolutely love it. So welcome back to another episode. Yeah, we had some breaking news on Monday. If you're listening to this, we release every Wednesday.

If you're listening to it, the date comes out. It's been about two days now since the Josh Bice controversy with G3, where it was found out that he had many anonymous, anon accounts as they call it, and was really slandering other brothers in the Lord and other ministries anonymously online for the past three years.

And the G3 conference, which I did attend the national conference in 2021, has been canceled and wanted to talk about that. And I brought on Andrew Rapoport to talk about that because when Andrew and I first met years ago, I think that in about a year into our relationship, so this has been about two years ago, we were talking and he privately told me some things that were going on and he was being slandered by Josh and some other people.

And he had some anon accounts that were attacking him. Now at that time, I don't think he knew that they were Josh's, but basically just told his story and said, you know, I pray for him and I'm struggling because I'm being blackballed from certain speaking events and functions and kind of was outside of the circle.

And it was really kind of eyeopening to me, I'd only been podcasting for a few years and didn't really realize that, you know, a lot of these ministries kind of compete against each other. I know it's wrong to say, but I find a lot of similarities between politics and like Christian ministries, which is a horrible thing to say.

But it's just the truth in politics. You kind of have people backbiting and being hypocritical and kind of fighting, infighting against each other within party and then outside a party fighting with each other and kind of building these little camps and tribes and going, well, this voting block is, you know, going to vote this way for this thing in return.

And you go, well, if I'm in, you know, the Christian community and if I'm in the bride of Christ here, there shouldn't be any of that, right? And for the most part there isn't, but you definitely, I'd say in the broader, you know, church of Christ there isn't, but you can definitely get into things where it's like him versus him and I'm in this group and you're in that group and yeah, we all might be believers, but we don't like that guy because he's going to take away from the stardom of this guy and we can't have him speak here or him do this thing here.

And it's really crazy how I kind of see some similarities there. And then when I heard this a few years ago, I went, well, that's just wrong. Like you should come out against that, Andrew, and say publicly, and he goes, who's going to listen first of all?

It's a private matter. I don't feel like I should go on social media and talk about it. And he just had a lot of respect for Josh and those guys, some of the guys surrounding this situation and was very humble about it.

And financially it hurt him and, you know, spiritually and emotionally, you know, just as a person, it does not feel good when someone's accusing you or lying about you or blacklisting you or saying things, you know, gossiping about you.

And lo and behold, two and a half years, three years later, Andrew's kind of vindicated. We now see that Josh was very controlling and, you know, posting, slandering Christians, posting things anonymously, which I can talk about this openly.

I have much sin in my life and I confess it. And I asked the Lord to help me be sanctified every single day. One of my sins is not having anonymous accounts and talking about people behind their back and or, you know, anonymously online.

I will tell you exactly how I feel right to your face. And I touched on that in this episode too, with Andrew too. And I said, even that can sometimes, you know, be a point of pride though, because I once told my wife, well, I'm going to post this because I'd say it to their face.

And she goes, well, then you're just being a jerk to their face and online. So you're like, that's not an excuse either. But with that being said, I can look at this and go, okay, I've never struggled with that.

I've never thought I needed to sneak around, make anonymous accounts, you know, mess with people, slander them, all those things. Anytime I've said anything about anyone, it's public. You know, it's coming from me or my podcast brand, which is the only, I'm the only one who posts from it.

And I have no problem with that. So I wanted to have Andrew on, and we basically talked about what is the responsibility of a pastor and in broader aspect, all Christians when it comes to social media.

What's the ethics standard? What's the morality standard? What's the biblical standard? And, you know, we talked about his situation up top. We didn't get into a whole lot of personal details, but you'll get the gist of what happened between him and him and Josh and the G3 organization years ago.

And now three years later, all this coming out as of, I think, Monday morning, a couple days ago, if you're hearing this on a Wednesday, I always forget that, you know, obviously podcast episodes live forever.

So I don't know. Maybe you're listening to this four years from now and you're going, what, Monday? But it was a good conversation. We kept it to about 45 minutes. He had some things to do. I had some things to do afterwards, so we didn't get into really super long format, but we did touch on those things and I found it very interesting.

I would just commend my brother, Andrew Rappaport, for being humble in that time in his life and even humble in this episode. He had every right to go, see, I told you so. I knew it all along. He could do all that Monday morning quarterbacking, hindsight 2020-ing, is that a word, 2020-ing?

And no, what did he do on this episode? And even in a private group chat that I'm in with him, the very first thing out of his mouth when everyone else was talking about it was, pray for Josh. And even on this episode, he said, introspect, don't Monday morning quarterback.

You have sin, I have sin, we introspect, we pray for Josh. And I went, what a humble way and a Christ-like way to deal with something to where, even I said on the episode personally, I would have been very offended and I don't know how I would have handled it.

I don't know if I could have handled it that humbly. But there you go. We're going to talk about it and it was a good episode. Next voices you hear, me, Andrew Rappaport.

Here we go.

A Christian Response to Slander, Vindication, and Public Failure

Well, Andrew, welcome back to the Deadman Walking Podcast. Frequent guest, one of my buddies, one of my friends, one of my pals. What's up, brother?

How are you doing?

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to have you on because we just had some, by the time people are listening to this, it'll be a day or two since it broke, that Josh Boyce has stepped down from G3, found that there was, he had three or four different anon accounts where he was slandering and talking negatively about other brothers in the Lord.

And I wanted to have you on, and I don't want to expose too much. And if I say something here, we can always edit and post if it's too uncomfortable. But I knew about a situation between you and some of those leaders, including Josh, years ago, and you were very humble about it and just said, this is what happened and this is kind of what's going on.

And there was slander involved and there was accusations and all those things. And you said, there's not much we can do about it. Josh has a platform and a ministry and not a lot of people want to talk to me about it.

I do know within my circle, there are quite a few that understood what you were going through and we believed what you said, and there's not much we could do about it either. And even to the fact now that some of these accounts that are coming out that he used, you can go back and see that he used those accounts to attack you and say some things.

And you know what? Your sin will find you out, right, Andrew? And I'm just saying this publicly for anyone listening, in my dealings with you, you have always been truthful with me, upfront, humble. You never slandered the brother that slandered you.

You didn't say a bad word about him where you had the opportunity to do that and say, this guy did this. I mean, he did some stuff that I would say him and some others that could ruin your ministry financially, speaking engagements, people saying, no, we're going to cancel because this guy said that, or this guy said that.

And you just held onto the truth and you were very biblical and righteous about it. And I just want to commend you on that publicly because those are the type of Christians that I like to surround myself with because they make me better as a brother in the Lord to go, we do not gossip.

We obviously defend ourselves. We stick up for ourselves. We speak the truth, right? We say exactly what happened. But in no way over the last couple of years with you going through what you went through and you can get into as little or as much detail as you want on that.

Did I hear you speak an ill word about someone who came against you very personally with lies and accusations? And I just wanted to publicly commend you at the top of the show. And that's one of the reasons I'm having you on.

The other reason I want you to speak on this subject, on the responsibilities of pastors and Christians and social media, and what is that standard and what does the Bible call.

Us to?

And I think you're the perfect person to talk about that. But that was a long intro for me, but I had to get that off my chest.

Praying for Opponents and Refusing Anonymous Accounts

Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. I'll say this. I think it is an important topic. You brought up the issue with Josh and them. First thing I did when I heard about it was to, I emailed Virgil Walker who works at G3, someone who I love dearly.

And I just said, Hey, I'm praying for you, for Josh, for the ministry.

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Just know that I'm praying for you. And that's, I have no ill will toward folks. I mean, look, my attitude is really simple. What I've done to Christ, I deserve far more than people badmouthing me, slandering me, or talking to me.

If that is the worst I have to suffer on earth, okay. That's doable because what I deserve in my sin against Christ and God, I deserve so much.

Worse.

And so that's really been my attitude for years. I didn't get there lightly, it didn't come easily. But really where I've come to land is the fact that I deserve more than any human could do to me. So I'm praying for them.

This isn't easy. The thing I think that bothers me the most, whether it's this, Steve Lawson, any of these, it's a stain on the Bride of Christ and the world we use it. When you get people that wouldn't be in our camp, people who, you know, we would see like a Benny Hinn or those guys that we wouldn't see even close to the camp, the world, I mean, they don't even know there is a camp.

So the world looks at that and says, it's all Christianity. I mean, the world doesn't distinguish between Roman Catholic, Christian, Protestant, Presbyterian or biblical Baptists. There's got to be at least one Presbyterian dig because you're going to get about five.

Baptist digs in throughout the show.

Okay. Yeah.

As long as you didn't say Reformed Baptist, since there's no such thing, but go on.

So I mean, the reality is to the world, it all looks the same.

Yeah.

It's my upbringing. Even from a Jewish upbringing, I actually thought all of Christianity, just I called it all Catholic. It was just denominations of Catholic. But it hurts a little bit more when it's someone within our camp, someone that theologically we would agree with, someone who is part of a ministry that we would support.

So there is a range of emotions with people today. And by the time they hear this, maybe they've dealt with some of these emotions, but there's a range of emotions that people are going through from hurt because they have a love for Josh Bice.

They have a love for G3. And just like with Steve Lawson, a lot of people went from the, I'm throwing out all of his books and anything he's done to the just, I'm genuinely hurt. This is someone that taught me so much and had such an impact on me.

And they feel let down. So there's a range of emotions that people are going to be going through because of the ministry God had through Josh Bice and G3 ministries. And I think there's two things that we could look at.

One is, as you and I talked about why we do the show, is basically ethics. How should pastors handle social media? But I think also as people who are receiving from public ministries, when we see someone who has a failure like this, there's a range of emotions that people go through.

And my attitude would be for folks to think through is look for the good in the ministry that God had through these people. They're human just like you and I. They could fall just like you and I can fall.

We're in danger if we think, oh, I could never do what so-and-so did. Fill in the blank. I mean, right now, you mentioned it's Josh Bice. But there's so many before and there'll be so many after. If we think we can't fall like that, then we're in trouble because that's real fall.

And I just want to say too, we're not doing this from a place of loftiness, right? Of sitting up here and saying, oh, well, looking down on Josh and those who are, there's many, I believe there's many influencers within the Christian community and even those who have ministries that have anon accounts and do this.

I will say I've never personally done that. The famous verse, judge not lest ye be judged, which the progressives like to interpret as, hey, you can't judge anything I do. No, Christ is saying you don't get to sit in the seat of judgment on something that's a sin in your own life, a regular sin.

I can say I've never had any anon accounts nor do I have any desire to have any anon accounts. It's troublesome enough for me to just post from my podcast account because I seem to be busy with life and I'm sure you're the same way with all the things you have going.

On.

So I think we can both sit here from a place of not having committed that particular sin and also call Josh out in brotherly love and also expose this subject to other believers and say, this is something that we have to be wary of, not just pastors, but also all Christians.

When we're entrusted with social media, posting things online, right, slander, all the things that come along with it, snarkiness, rude jokes, crude talking, all those things talked about that Christ talks about, too, about being a reflection of him.

So I think it's an important subject and for me, for me to you personally, I would just say I don't know how you dealt with it so humbly. I would have been livid and maybe that's by the grace of God, God has not allowed that to happen to me because if you come after me personally in my ministry and all, I mean, think about that.

You have one pastor to another pastor trying to take down someone who is preaching the gospel because of what, personal animosity, jealousy, clicks, whatever it is, we're not going to put any intentions on that.

I'm just saying, boy, if it would have happened to me, I think I'd have lost my salvation for about 15 minutes. It's like, you know what I mean? So it's like, I appreciate you and this isn't just platitudes.

Once again, I want to establish this upfront on the episode that I'm talking to you because I've seen the response modeled in a Christ-like way with you. If this was someone who was going back at someone and then slandering also and creating a non-accounts and arguing back and publicly, you know, I wouldn't have them on my podcast.

I go, I'm staying away from that. But when I know someone who handles it in a way, and I'll tell you, when you handle it that way, it feels like you lose, doesn't it? Didn't it feel for the last couple of years, like you just keep losing, like people don't believe me or they look at me a certain way or they don't invite me here or I feel like all the things.

And then you go, oh, but look at that. It is found out. He's justly dealt with and there's probably going to be more to come. And at the end of the day, you get to go. Thank you, Lord, for taking me through that.

I acted in a Christ-like manner and I'm vindicated. God will be my vengeance.

Discernment, Reconciliation, and the Danger of Platform Building

Yeah.

So I think I tried to have, I don't know if it would really be an account, but I had an account on Facebook that I actually created called Striving for Eternity only because, well, Facebook booted me from my own group.

And so I created an account. And so I could get, yeah, like, so that I could, you know, add myself back in. And so, yeah, that was an issue, but they deleted that one. So, and I do have a second Twitter that clearly says this is not the official Andrew Rappaport.

Like, go find a Twitter account.

And to be clear for this conversation, we're not talking about secondary accounts or general accounts for podcasts or ministry. I mean, clearly those are linked to, because I have one, right?

Those are being used purposely to, I think in this case, like purposely to go, like there was a group many years ago that they had, they actually, one of the founders of the group actually created a fake account to attack his ministry so that he could respond to it.

Yeah.

And like, and look, the reality that sells and I get that. But, you know, I think one thing I do want to say, since you said some things publicly, I should say, I think that again, in Josh's case with me and others, I think they're actually doing it out of a sense of righteousness.

They feel they don't have all the information, but in the limited information that they have, they've drawn conclusions about me that they've never actually passed it out. And this will be one thing I think that we'll get into when it comes to pastors and online ministry, whether pastor or not.

One of the key things I believe we need to see is an attitude of reconciliation with folks. The one thing that, you know, in the case that, in my case, if these guys would have practiced reconciliation and been willing to meet with me, we could resolve it probably.

And they'd realize, oh, you were actually in the right. I mean, you know, the very people who think that what is happening to Josh, because, you know, are the very same thing that I called out sin and some people didn't like it.

But if you only have one side of a story and everybody, look, everyone listening to this who may have read the statement from G3, you have one side of a story.

Very true.

You have really the G3 side of the story. You don't have Josh's unless you've spoken to Josh, then you have his. And this is the caution I had, whether it's Steve Lawson. I got in a lot of flack for not jumping on the bandwagon with Steve Lawson, but I only had one side of a story.

I was waiting for the other side. It took five months, right? But this is the one thing we always have to be cautious of. For the person who's watching these things play out on social media is to realize that we always have to be cautious.

I'm tempted. I'll get myself in trouble here, but this is dead man walking.

So, hey, we like trouble. Go ahead.

Yeah, throw caution to the wind. You know, the whole situation with the letter that came out with, oh, and I just drew a blank on his name. I hate getting older, Joel Webben. So, I've been tempted to do an episode on Apologetics Live to evaluate the letters that the church put out on Joel Webben and the letter Joel Webben put out just on those.

Because I don't agree with Joel Webben's theology, his more stronger stance against Jewish people, me being Jewish, maybe I have a bias there, but I don't agree with his theology. But when I saw those letters come out, I read those letters and went, you know, I actually think just based on those that Joel Webben's in the right.

Like, why would he think he's under church discipline if in their own letter, they're admitting that they sent him to Texas and paid for him to plant a church, like they supported him. And then they had them come back and speak while they're putting this letter out to people.

It's like, it's a mixed message. And I'm looking at it, like, I just looked at those letters and said, you know, there's more here. And then Joel's letter comes out. I go, okay, it sure looks like when Joel's saying, I didn't know this, that you can make a really strong case for his point of view.

So, I can disagree with him and still say, based in this situation, I think he was probably in the right. Now, more information, I guess, has come out. I don't have that information. I didn't look into that.

But in the limited amount that I had, I looked at it and said, you know, people will go, oh, but he's a wolf. He's disqualified. He may be, but not be like, I can't base it off of this.

Right.

So, let me ask you this. You bring up a very good point because I think much of what's going on here when we see ministry leaders, pastors, elders online saying some things, creating an account, whatever it is, getting themselves into hot water.

It's a, and maybe I'm making this too general, but for me, I go, well, they don't have one of the qualifications that they need as a pastor elder, which is discernment. They're lacking a general sense of discernment.

And we all know, as Spurgeon famously said, discernment isn't knowing right from wrong. That's easy. The unbeliever can determine right and wrong just by God's transcendent law. The discernment is knowing right from almost right.

Correct. So, you bring up a good point in saying, look, there's something I could have done here that might very well help the body. You have this discerning kind of view with Joel Webben and going, I could post something and I wouldn't be slandering or anything like that, but I'd be talking about this and going, okay, can we accuse this brother based on this?

Yes or no? This is what the Bible says. How do you walk that line with someone like you who has striving for eternity? You've got apologetics live. You speak internationally. I mean, a lot of people hear your words and see your videos.

Like, what's the line for discernment between I get into this situation and comment on it or I stay totally out of it? Is it just having all the information? Is that one of the precursors for you? Or is there more things that Christians and pastors should be looking at before speaking to an issue online?

Yeah, and that's a good, really good question. So, I could tell you the easier part of what you shouldn't have. The easier ones when you should never talk about it is when you're doing it in your heart.

You'll know this if it's you. I'm doing this to get attention, right? Whether it's the use.

Yeah.

And there are people, look, I've worked with people in ministry. I remember a guy who was going up against the enemy and he had some really good episodes that tackled it well. And he literally got a big audience because of it.

And he literally said to me, who should I go after next? Like, what topic? And I went, no one, right? If you're doing it to get attention for yourself or to make money off it, you know, like, I think of Julie Roy's, you know, she's, oh, no, I'm just doing discernment.

Yeah.

And you're making a living, a pretty good living off of it, right? So, the reality is that there are people who will do what they call discernment. Really what it is, there is a level of an evolution, and I'm using that word not in a scientific sense, but there is an evolution that we see, right?

You get someone who exposes somebody for something heinous. No one knew about it. It was being hidden. Someone just, for whatever reason, find something out. They dig into it and they expose truth. They get a platform or people know who they are because of it.

And they have the attitude like this other person I mentioned. They look for someone else. The evolution when you're doing that is that you start looking for who to expose and you're less concerned about the truthfulness.

And you start looking for, hey, this is what they really mean or, you know, like if I just skipped it, like I remember someone who wrote an article against John Piper saying that he believed in a workspace salvation.

And they wanted me to review this article. They said it's rock solid. And I looked at it and I went through and I searched everything that Piper, I had actually got all his books digitally so I could do this search because this guy had that Piper said, quote, works are necessary to earn salvation, unquote.

And I, there was no citation and I could not find where that's from. And I went to the author and said, where did this come from? And he's like, well, that's what he meant. Because there was an added word there.

The actual quote that I could find is that works are necessary for salvation. It didn't say to earn. It's a big difference. He was talking sanctification, the works of sanctification, and we would agree with that.

Yeah.

And so you get someone that they start going, oh, but this is what he means. Now it becomes problematic. We have to be honest. Look, the reality in the case that you're bringing up today, right, Josh, really quickly.

To just on the discernment kind of arena, I've found more than not some of these up and coming discerning discerner blogs and YouTube channels. And I would exclude guys like Justin Peters from this. I've talked to him and I know you know him and I think he does it with the correct intention.

I think that's the problem is what's the intention behind it. I found most of these guys up and coming. It is because it feels good to call out someone else's sin because then we can rationalize our own hidden unrepentant sin that we are not talking about.

And it really puts us in the sweet spot of righteousness when we get to sit on our perch and go, oh yeah, look what this public person did. And now everyone shamed them. Meanwhile, you're getting off your podcast or YouTube and you're going out and sinning and you're making sure it's just a secret between you and yourself and you think God's not watching.

That sin will catch up to you as well too. And I'm just saying intention has a lot to do with it. I think guys like Justin Peters and maybe a few others when they have these discernment ministries, is it because they want to see justice served, righteousness upheld, and it hurts them to see the bride of Christ be sinned against.

If that's the intention, then by all means, I would say, please post that and be biblical in your post. But we actually have a duty to that, right? The Bible says to other brothers and sisters in Christ to point them towards their sin, call that out and call them to repentance.

So I think intention has a lot, like you said, self-serving is one. Is there anything else you can think of to where you're looking at something and you go, should I post this or should I get in this subject?

Are we looking at any specific biblical principles before we press send on that tweet or that Facebook post or that video we're going to make calling someone out or getting into a quarrel with someone online?

What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Well, let me give you one example of someone who does it outstandingly is Todd Friel. If you're familiar with Todd Friel from Wretched Radio, and I've talked to him. I interviewed him once because I said I wanted to talk about this with him because he is outstanding when it comes to, because he'll sit there and say, okay, there's a line right.