Heart Cry Question Answer Panel 2006

Sin’s Effect on Prayer and the Need for Confession

The question is in regards to how sin affects prayer. When you know the scripture verse, it says, if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. Does it simply refer to if we refuse to humble ourselves and deal with it, or if we have dealt with it, but we have yet to carry it out, so to speak, we've surrendered it to the Lord.

What effect, though, does sin have in regards to prayer?

Well, the Bible makes it very clear that if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. So then it's useless praying if you have unconfessed sin in your heart and you're aware of that. I think that's made very plain in different parts of the Bible.

Even praying for sick people, as in James chapter 5, it goes on to say, after saying the elders, the prayer of faith will save the sick, it then says, and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

But sins are not forgiven if they're not confessed. So in other words, the elders have to find out, they have to talk to the person they're praying for to find out if there is, perhaps, sin in their life and the sickness may be because of sin.

It isn't always, but sometimes it is, and that's the way it goes. So, sin in the heart, God doesn't listen.

Contrition, Humility, and Continuing Brokenness

I think that one thing that is very, very important is the one to whom the Lord looks has a contrite spirit, trembles at his word. There is so much, I am so dull in my heart so many times and do not know secret faults in many ways until I come into, you know, maybe the spirit revives me or in the word, or a brother rebukes me.

And I think one of the things that is so very important is this idea of a continual brokenness before the Lord. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

There is a sense in which, you know, it's very dangerous when a person looks at their life and says, well, you know, I don't have any sin, and they walk around pretty arrogant, you know, until something whops them over the head.

But I think that there is a constant state of brokenness and humility before the Lord that even when we have confessed all that we have confessed, there is still this reality of such grace and that when he does speak to us and answer us, it is a work of tremendous grace on his part.

In that passage, isn't the key word regarding? Isn't there a difference between regarding sin and committing sin?

It is a recognition and holding on to. You know, the thought occurred to me that if I'm praying with known, unconfessed sin, I'm in effect praying to an idol, not God, an idol that I'm making him out to be because known sin in my own life is against him and against not just his law but his very character and nature.

So why would I talk to him anyway if I'm against him? So, I don't know, it just came to my mind that any prayer effort with unconfessed sin that's known would have to be prayer to your own idol, not to the true God that you know you're sinning against.

Searching the Heart Without Legalism

You talk about confessing our sins. Each night I try to confess my sin, but I find sometimes it's hard to recognize a particular sin. I know that I fall short of God's glory every day, but how... You know, most of the time when you have sin, if you're under conviction, you confess your sin right then.

But at the end of the day, when you look back at your day and you can't pinpoint your confessed sin, how do you draw that out in order to have a closer walk?

Where do you draw the line? How can you make sure you confess every sin that you ever commit? And where does grace fit into that?

Well, sometimes, if I'm correct, sometimes the idea is you feel like at the end of the day you need to confess sin, but you don't really know any specific sin. And you're just wondering what you should do about that.

The one scripture that comes to my mind that may relate is search me, O God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts and see if there be any wicked way in me and lead me in the way everlasting.

It's obviously not a legalistic work that we have to remember everything and then confess it. What the Holy Spirit brings to mind, we need to quickly agree with the Father about. And then we know that we don't know our own hearts.

And so an open, honest heart to the Father that says, Father, search me, cleanse me, that's sufficient in light of that question, I think.

I could add something here perhaps from the book of Job. It runs like this. It says, He never takes His eyes off the righteous, but with kings are they in the throne. He establishes them forever, and they are exalted.

And then comes an if. And if they be bound in fetters and held in cords of affliction, what then? Then He shows them their worth and their transgressions which they have exceeded. And He opens their ear to discipline, and He commands that they return from iniquity.

So sometimes people, they say, Well, I prayed and asked God, He didn't show me anything. Yet I know there's something there. Well, wait a minute. God says, it says there so clearly in Job, He shows them their worth.

He shows us our transgression. What it really means is we're not listening. Maybe we don't want to hear it.

Conviction, Assurance, and False Condemnation

There's one thing that, and I totally agree with everything that's been said. One thing that bothers me sometimes is, you know, the Holy Spirit in His work, He convicts us of sin. He convicts us of righteousness also.

And I sometimes think that believers also, if I'm renewing my mind with the Word of God, according to Romans chapter 12, verse 2, if I'm seeking to follow hard after Christ, you know, I trust, and I'm asking God to search me.

And really dealing with that, I trust that the Holy Spirit will search me. He will tell me. And sometimes He may even use other people to come and rebuke me, and so many things. But at the same time, I'm always worried that I don't hear a lot of believers rejoicing in godliness, rejoicing in righteousness, being convicted of that.

I feel like a lot of times believers are just many times under the accusation of the devil. That even after they pray and ask God to search them and they're really desiring to be pure and to walk with God, even if they don't hear something and there's no apparent sin, they still almost walk under this guilt and this condemnation.

And sometimes, I know you can get off balance with this, but sometimes I'm happy in the Lord because I know He's done a work in me and is doing a work in me, and yes, overcoming. So I don't think that believers need to assume.

I mean, we know that we sin. We know that the Holy Spirit points that out. We know that there are sometimes secret sins that maybe lay there until a greater work is done or God shows us more clearly. But at the same time, I think we have to be very careful in just walking in this assumed condemnation that we're always in rebellion because that's not true.

Paul said that he exercised himself to have a conscience void of offense before God and men. So he exercised himself. He searched his heart. But then it says, you know, in John, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God.

We know when our heart is clean and conscience is clear.

Renewing the Mind to Discern God’s Will

Yes. I don't know how thoroughly you can answer this question, but I know that I sometimes have an inclination where I feel that God may be leading me to do something, maybe witness to somebody, or sometimes, like you said, some crazy things.

I was just wondering, is there a way to discern between what is God's will if He's leading you to do it, or if it's your own thoughts, or if it's maybe evil?

Let me just say, first of all, that people get in a really bad trap in this. They're not really renewing their mind in the Word of God as a practice. And then they come to a crossroads where they need to discern the will of God.

And so they go to the Bible as though a magic book to find the answer for God's will. And that is not really how God has set it up. In Romans 12, too, we go back to that. The idea of renewing your mind to know what the will of God is.

So before a situation ever comes into place where I have to discern is God leading or not, one of the things I need to be sure of is that as a life practice, I am constantly renewing my mind in the Word of God because that holds promise.

Secondly, knowing that and checking my life there, if I believe God's leading me to do something, clearly we know this. If it contradicts a direct command of Scripture or biblical principles, we know it's not the Holy Spirit leading us.

But let's say that I'm renewing my mind in the Word of God. It does not contradict commands or principles. Or to do it doesn't contradict other things. Then one of the things that I will do, of course I pray, but I'll also seek godly counsel.

I can recall several times in my life when I've gone to men that I greatly respected and authorities over me and asked them to pray about in opinions. And usually by renewing my mind in the Word of God, searching the Scriptures, praying, you know, and checking out my motives, you know, am I seeking first the kingdom of God, going to godly, godly men to pray with me and to pray for me.

Very rarely have I tripped up that way.

Well, of course, it has to be what you're hearing or feeling has to be totally consistent with the Word of God. And one of the problems today is this, that the average Christian knows very little of the Word of God.

I remember one time this fellow, he taught a Sunday school class in a local church. And he heard me preach and he said, you quoted a verse and I just couldn't locate it and I know my Bible very well. He said, I know the New Testament off by heart.

He said, but that verse... I said, what was the verse? Well, he said the verse was how shall we escape we neglect so great salvation. He said, well, where is that? And I said, in the book of Hebrews. Oh, he said, I knew it had to be in the Old Testament.

I know the New Testament off by heart. You know, there's a lot of that kind of stuff when people don't know the Bible so they're open to satanic deception constant. And if they don't pray, you have to get along with God and wait on God, you know.

The big trouble today in the church or among Christians is this, I'm in a hurry and God isn't. And the Bible says, wait on the Lord, it means exactly that. And you have to spend time with God, maybe some hours at times even, not make hasty decisions on some impression we have or some impression somebody else gives to us.

Avoiding Anxiety About God’s Will

To piggyback on his question, can we get to the point to where we are so concerned with following God's will that we miss the point? Oh God, do you want me to have cereal this morning or waffles, you know?

My wife always makes those decisions for me. One thing I tell college students, and this is very important, college students are famous for this, or infamous for this. They wear themselves out emotionally, physically, and spiritually trying to figure out God's will for their life.

They're going to graduate, they're going to marry this girl, this and this and back and forth. And I always tell them a very childlike thing that I've worked just in my own life and it's this. I just keep doing exactly what I'm doing and following the Lord and His commands the best that I can.

And I do not worry about a deviation from that until God makes it so clear to me that I know I need to do something else. That I know that if I don't do it I'm in disobedience. And to that point, I don't put a lot of just, I don't waste a lot of energy trying to work through that.

Let me just say, you know, bloom where you're planted. As a pastor, I often have energetic, enthusiastic, sometimes young Christians, how do I know the will of God? And then I'll check and they're not real faithful in Sunday school.

I'll check and they don't come to our outreach visitation program. They're not in an accountability group with another believer to sharpen themselves. And so the basic things that we should be doing, we're not doing.

We want God to give us a special direction for some spectacular thing over here. Make sure you're faithful where you are. And exhaust yourself in the commitments you have where you are. And I'm just convinced you're not going to miss God's will if you're faithful in the small things, let's say, the everyday things of your local church family.

So many of the decisions we make, you know, it's surprising how many decisions we make without a prayer meeting or without having to have a Bible verse or something like that. You know, it's like 1 Thessalonians 3.

Paul says, when we could endure it no longer, we thought it best to be left behind. Is it at Athens alone? And he says, we thought it best. You know, and so here's a Christian. He has a renewed mind and he's to that level of spirituality.

And so, you know, it seems best. This seems like the right thing to do. You know, it seems like the right thing to do to put my shoes on in the morning. And a lot of things like that. And so sometimes we just don't have a striking revelation.

And I mean, even on a thing like that, like Paul was talking about, he says, I thought it best to be left behind at Athens alone. We sent Timothy. And so, some things are like that. Please, my heart, are we, I've heard it said, our Baptist churches have a lot of lost people in them that think they are saved.

The Superficial Gospel and False Assurance

They're at least attending the Sunday morning services. And I've heard it said a lot. And it's very grieving. I was wondering how you feel about that. First of all, it's true. We do. And it's not just confined to Baptists.

It's confined. Well, it's not confined. It's rampant in evangelicalism today. And the reason for it is first of all, the Gospel that is preached is no Gospel at all. It's a Gospel reduced from Christ the God-man going to a tree and dying under the wrath of His Father and rising again from the dead and seated at the right hand of the Father and calling all men, commanding all men to repent and believe.

And that the proof of saving faith is the continued fruit in their life. We've reduced all that down to five things God wants you to know. Our four spiritual laws. And if you jump through each one of those and say yes and then pray the little prayer in the back, some evangelist who should spend less time preaching and more time studying his Bible declares you saved.

I'm very opinionated with regard to this. That's just the point. So our Gospel. Second of all, it seems to me that when I look at... I don't consider the Catholic Church to ever have been a church. But when I look at the Catholic Church, when I look at Anglicanism and what was going on in England, when I look at what was going on in New England and what goes on today, it seems to me that always the devil works it out so that the great assumption is they're saved.

The least amount of time, it seems, eventually is given to discerning what is the Gospel and whether a person is truly saved. If they just walk up front and they pray that prayer, we declare them saved and start discipling them.

We should maybe be working with this person for months that they come to a Biblical assurance. And so our churches are filled with lost people and it's by and large because the superficiality of pastors.

And most of them have gone to church growth schemes and turned their church into six flags over Jesus and they no more are preaching the Gospel than a man on the moon. It's not just a contemporary problem.

I read this week where A .W. Pink, I mean, he got pretty discouraged at times and seemed like he could be harsh. But in his day, in the 1930s and 40s, he made the statement that he wondered if 2 of Protestantism were born again at all in America.

Well, even one of the greatest, most well-known evangelists in America today has said that if even 5 of all the people that have been converted in his meetings are Christian, he would be happy. And another thing about it that's so important is the idea of a compassionate, loving church discipline.

I find it very strange that people do not practice church discipline because they love their congregation more than Jesus does. Jesus commanded them to practice church discipline. Not upon sinful people.

We're all sinful. But upon rebels who show no fruit and will not turn. And you see, the thing that's really bad is we have just come out of a liberalism. There was a move among many denominations, especially in the Southern Baptist Convention, saying that liberalism is out.

We're going right. It hasn't taken us not even a decade to go right back into neoliberalism. Which, in my opinion, the new liberalism is basically the church growth movement where everything is done on marketing strategies and finding the, you know, tell us what kind of church you want and that's what we'll give you.

Instead of asking God what kind of bride He desires. I have a daughter named Joanna and she professed to be saved, was baptized, joined the church, and seemed to be a very genuine Christian. When she went to school, she always had a Bible on top of her school books.

The principal of school told us, he said, would you like having your daughter in our school? And I said, why? And he said, if there's any hanky-panky going on and your daughter finds out, she blows the lid off this place.

He said, we're so glad she's there. Then during the revival, she came to me one night and said, Daddy, I'd like to be saved. I said, what? You mean you're backslidden? She said, Daddy, I've never known the Lord.

I knew the language. I got the language from you and Mom, but I'd never known the Lord. And so I led her to Christ. And then before the revival, I had an assistant pastor, great song leader, and great teaching children.

But he was with us for six or eight months and the deacons and I felt, he's not producing. And we talked with him and finally we had to ask him to leave. And he did. During the revival, he phoned me one night long distance and he said, last night I was praying and God showed me that I'd never been born again.

Can I come down to Saskatoon and you spend some time? I said, certainly. So we came down, we got some pastors together and he knelt and we all knelt and we counseled with him and he prayed. And I'll never forget, he suddenly cried, God is real, God is real.

What a transformation. So there's likely lots of people like that to know the language. They've heard it from others but they don't know the Lord. This must have been a burden for the Lord Jesus too because one time it struck me that almost all, if not all, of the parables that the Lord spoke had to do with this matter of true and false profession.

I mean the two builders, the sower and the soils, wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats, and just almost all of the parables have to do with this very thing. Anything else, brothers? Greatest mission field today is the church, or what's called the church.

Confessing Sin Wisely to Other Believers

You know, I've been thinking a lot about especially men and maybe men in prominent positions, maybe like Brother Jeff and he's a pastor here at First Baptist. And when you get to places like even you guys are and even myself, where you're pastoring and a lot of people come to hear you preach and speak, we're always convicted to confess our sins to the Lord and to go before Him in prayer.

But how important is it, no matter where you are or who you are, to confess those sins to other men and to other believers? And how important is it to always do that? And what would be the difference and would there be a time where you would just confess to the Lord?

There is a time where the Lord may lead us, you may even see the dictate in Scripture, to confess our sins to others. You have to use a tremendous amount of wisdom in doing that because most people, and I mean most people, are not trustworthy.

Most people are gossips and they will hurt you. For me, if I felt like I needed to go and speak with someone, I would go to the elders of my church. I would entrust myself to those men. There are friends that I will...

There are some things that I entrust with everyone. If you noticed while I was preaching here tonight, I made quite clear some of my failings and my needs, especially with regard to spirituality. I feel very comfortable sharing that.

There are some things that I can share with other brothers who are closer to me, maybe certain needs and weaknesses I have that I wouldn't share with the entire community. Then there may be other things that I would want to go directly.

To my elders. Those who are elders in the church and deal with them are very, very close friends. I know a lot of pastor friends that I've worked with in the past. They like to have friends out of town, maybe not in their own church.

Is there wisdom in that? Is that biblical? You know, that scares me. You've got a fellowship of believers that you're supposed to be tied to more than just about anybody.

On the face of the earth. Your local fellowship of faith. If I have to go out of town to find someone that I can trust, I need to be a part of a different fellowship. I mean, they're my family. And another thing, this is very important.

I had a young man. This may help some young men here. He called me up one day. He was just newly married. He was battling with his thought life. You know, he'd walk down the street and battle with an awkward glance and things like that.

And he was confessing every battle with his thought life to his wife in order to be sincere. And I said, young man, you're killing her. You're going to kill her. I said, you may be soothing your conscience.

You may be calming your conscience, but you're killing this woman. And he pulled out a bunch of verses out of context and just railed on me and went away. I would imagine he's probably divorced now or either has a wife that's totally destroyed.

And so be very careful. A lot of times we're wanting to confess something to get it off of our chest, but we heap it on the head of another person. And you know, I want to go back to church leadership.

There is a reason for elders. And there's a reason why you choose why certain men are chosen. And it's a comfort. When you have men who are seeking to be biblical, broken, they're trustworthy, it's such a comfort.

Because that's what God has established. We've got another question here. I would love to hear you, Brother Jeff,.

Speak a little bit about our accountability system and the way it works here in this church. I think it would be worth these folks hearing how we structure that to help answer.

What Brother Nathan was asking. Are you talking specifically about accountability groups formally? Yeah, and having that.

One-on-one accountability partner.

Well, we began 20-plus years ago actually with the students just having an accountability partner for what I like to say to keep the lazy streak in check. You know, I think being accountable and quoting your verses for the week and having a daily quiet time and sharing the gospel regularly, you can do that like a mechanical robot.

We all know that. But if you love God, the power of shame is good. Brothers can help each other. And so that's been a very, I think, beneficial thing in the body here for years. Switching back to the original question Brother Nate posed, and I know he's going to be a pastor, has pastored, and has that heart.

I've been here 26 years, and I have had incredible blessings confessing weaknesses and struggles with brothers. I have also shared weaknesses and struggles with brothers who used it to try to destroy me.

This church doesn't need me, but it does need God's called pastor. And so there's a sense in which you protect yourself and your reputation to the end of the good of the body of Christ. And so I would say be very careful and wise and prayerful about that.

And perhaps maybe young ministers, I guess thinking about myself, we probably overdo that. We probably err by trying to be too transparent, too humble perhaps. Had an older gentleman in my church six or so years ago, said, Pastor, would you quit telling us how weak you are and how you struggle in all these areas so people don't like you and they're using it.

You know, so, and that was wise. That was not good. I think my motives were good,.

But I was unwise and immature. The second question, it's not related, but the second question is in the early church, they, somewhere on a minimum of three years of preparation before baptism, and even in some moves even before communion, how much time should be invested in supposed new converts before baptism, before entry into communion?

I'd just like to hear some feedback on that. You know, each person is so different. As churches, we want to develop a system and run somebody through a machine. And that's an organization. It's not an organism.

And in my mind, is that a person come to a biblical assurance. A biblical assurance. And, you know, that's through counseling. That's through loving. It's talking to them and waiting. And some people, you know, there's going to be, it's going to come quicker than others.

So the idea of biblical assurance is working with each individual, taking them through Scripture, and seeing, you know, a lot of times during, well, Wednesday nights. I mean, Bro. Jeff is back, and that's all that he's doing, is meeting with person after person.

And it's not just one time. He spends time, and they meet with other people, and it's to discern. It's not to try to make, you know, you've got to reach some certain level to be in this club. It's just that if you're a pastor and you really love people, the thing you're going to work hardest on is that if they're not really saved, that that false assurance is destroyed.

And if they are really saved, that they have biblical assurance. On the baptism question, you look in the New Testament, I mean, the book of Acts, you know, you see immediate baptisms upon confession.

I mean, almost immediate. And Philip said to the Ethiopian eunuch, if you believe with all your heart, you may be baptized. I don't know that it's any consolation, but you find Peter baptized Simon falsely.

So even he did that. But it does seem like there's some scripture for being careful on certain categories of people like the Pharisees. You know, John the Baptist said, let's see some fruit. And I think that would apply to children too.

I mean, just so often they just don't understand enough. And so I think maybe there's some scripturalness for being cautious on those that are more likely to make a false profession. One of the basis of the New Covenant says they shall all be taught of God.

The least of them, the greatest of them, they shall all be taught of God. And they'll have a knowledge of their iniquities being removed, taken away. Again, dropping the ball theologically. How many pastors have I heard say to a person who is doubting their salvation, well, was there ever a point in time in your life when you asked Jesus to come in your heart?

And if they said yes, they'd say, well, were you sincere? And if the person said, well, I think so, they'd say, well, you're saved and that's the devil bothering you. That's the extent of what it's come to.

Another thing that's a big problem, and I hate to keep harping on this, but God does not have a plan B. Or He told us how to deal with His church. And one of the great problems is this. Again, a biblical, compassionate church discipline is not practiced.

Because if you're baptizing people, just all kinds of people, and no matter how careful you are, even if you're Peter, you're going to baptize someone who's a sorcerer, alright? And they're in the church, and they stay there.

Why? Because church discipline isn't practiced. So a big part of this is not the problem with discerning baptism, it's the fact that once someone's in the church, they can run rampant in ungodliness and no one does anything.

And so that's a big problem. Let me throw in this that we've experienced here. We started with church discipline before we had a healthy understanding of conversion. And to be honest, I was converted at age 19, had no church background at all.

And I was real troubled with the typical Southern Baptist easy-believism. Didn't know what to call it easy-believism at the time. But yet I bought into some of it, and we had something of a paradox going on.

We have discipline over here, we believe conversion really changes you, but all the known people say, do this quick-fix, hoop-jump conversion thing, and it was a mess. But because of church discipline, I was forced to deal with the doctrine of conversion because I was having to discipline so many.

And I thought, my goodness, I just baptized this person a month ago, and they're already a discipline case in the church. And it's as if God, somebody said one time, if God ever spoke unto you, you know it was louder than that.

God said, you don't know what conversion is. And I don't know thousands of hours I spent studying the doctrine of conversion. I mean, immersing myself. Church history, our Baptist theologians and others, and just the book of Ephesians particularly because I was preaching through that book.

And I mean, it was a wrestle, a fight, a struggle. Am I crazy? Am I going too far? To where now I'm at peace. I'm not saying I've arrived, but I'm at peace with how we're dealing with seekers now. And following up on what Bob said, I think Acts does appear to give the impression that folks are baptized immediately, but have we ever been in a Pentecostal-type work of the Spirit?

You've got to take that in context. Jonathan Edwards, I think, is so right when he says, in an unusual, genuine move of the Spirit, you may know in 30 minutes if a man's truly converted, but usually that's not possible.

And there's a reason why Paul told Timothy, do the work of an evangelist. And the first time I read that verse that I can remember, I thought about the evangelist I knew, and I thought, what work is this?

Twelve or fifteen sermons? Twenty-minute message? Walk down the aisle? There's no work. And then when I begin to understand what conversion biblically should look like, and now I'm counseling with people.

I sometimes leave here at 9 or 10 o 'clock on the day I set aside to counsel with people about baptism. I am absolutely exhausted. It's a joyous exhaustion, but it's work. It's the work of laboring with fear before God about this person's soul, and even more so, the health of the bride of Christ.

And brothers, those of you that are going to the pastor, here's the issue. Do you love God? And is His bride that important to you? It is. It is that important. You know, to make you rethink and examine and reformulate everything you're doing in that area.

And it's just been a long pilgrimage and a struggle and suffering and people misunderstanding and leaving and persecution. But if you're on that pilgrimage, keep going. Keep seeking God. Nothing is what can be more important than the doctrine of conversion.

I mean, and it's not four spiritual laws or walk down the aisle and pray this prayer. It's massive. I don't want anybody preaching to my daughters that it's just this little thing and that little thing.

I want them to care for their souls. And so, to be quite honest, I've had to repent of a thousand and one other things you can do in a large church that's well-organized and well-structured like we are, which can be idols to a pastor like myself who's gifted to do that, and get myself back to pouring over preaching and counseling those the Spirit is moving in and realizing that is my work.

And, you know, it's amazing. If that gets right, I don't mean perfect, but if that gets right, everything else starts to work pretty good. So, fight that fight in that area. It's a great question.

Pastoral Accountability and the Danger of Spiritual Pride

How does the pastor begin to lead his church men to hold him accountable? What would be the process for me to have men that would rise up in my church to hold me accountable, especially in the sense of seeing how many ministers are falling these days?

I know that I'm susceptible to falling myself. And as far as accountability,.

One of the things that really hurts a pastor or anyone that God starts to use is you begin to think somehow you're different from everyone else in the congregation, that you're special, that there are rules that everyone else needs to go by that maybe you don't.