Debate After show, Slick vs Gibbs

CARM

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December 13, 2021

00:00: All right There we go All right. Just doing the after show here for my debate on limited atonement with Pastor Gibbs and as usually when do an after show it takes a few minutes for people to come in so I fill in the time by blabbing and I just updated the
00:22: Web page, so we'll see who comes in and how long it takes All right So we've got to Waiting that doesn't make sense and a
00:33: Facebook page right there Okay There we go
00:40: All right All right, so I'm going to turn the sound off on that one good and then the sound off on this one good and then
00:53: Michael Grutter Michael you have to you have to have a microphone and or a
01:00: Camera, you don't need a camera, but if you have a microphone, that's why it says devices not connected
01:06: Michael So you're not able to get in Okay, if you can hear me
01:11: Bill hey, praise God. Yeah Ray Lagrange Stream yard.
01:17: There we go. Jessie Marie and ought Whatever she always does what she ought to do.
01:23: Let's see private chat Just here for chat. Okay.
01:28: Oh, you're right there. Okay. I see you You have any comments Michael? He's just in for the chat thing.
01:34: That's okay and What I'll do is put this link in stream yard so that Everybody can see
01:47: Okay, and stream yard in in the thing so you can anybody wants to come in we can talk about stuff really fast
01:53: If not, no big deal. Ah It was a good debate to join
02:05: I agree You know, he's a pastor and he's saved by the blood of Christ so I Was asked repeatedly for John 318 to be explained duty was flagging it as spam or something
02:18: Really? So let me go look at John 318 He believes in him is not judged
02:24: He does not believe in him has been judged already because he does not believe the name of the only begotten Son of God Yes, an interesting verse could be understood in a couple different ways.
02:33: But yeah And the King James it says that John 318 He believeth on him is not condemned by King James But he that believes not is condemned already because he does not believe in the name of the
02:46: Son of God Yeah, you don't believe you're condemned now that could be get it interesting into ordination election and things like that And so some discussions worth their
02:57: Daniel Lundy you miss a debate. Okay. I can mess
03:06: That's true can Kendall Kendall cook that's right. I'm the worst.
03:11: Hey, we still got to do that thing with the Admin Google.
03:18: All right. Did you see the debate Kendall? Jesse Maria, I like that wait for people to come in.
03:26: We've got 26 people watching. Let's see if I go over to There on YouTube.
03:34: I'm looking at Facebook. I don't really see anything happening on Facebook People are watching so I guess that's good.
03:41: All right So give me some feedback what you guys thought I Thought it went pretty well.
03:48: That's that's my opinion and Joanne Kendall that we've known each other for I don't know 15 years.
04:01: I have no idea how long it's been. It's been a long time so Let's see.
04:09: Well, I popped in like that thing in your place. I popped in like that thing. Come on guys Come on in here. You can talk
04:16: If it doesn't pick up, you know bail in 15 minutes go watch TV Really fun debate to learn a ton actually listen to that.
04:23: Well three hours flew by Setting for truth. Yeah, so so standing come on in here man if you want
04:29: Did you repent and come to the truth now? Did you? So Yeah It was a great debate.
04:42: Yeah, I thought it was good too. It was fun. You know was Josh fuller minion I don't know I think what he needed to do is just have a
04:49: Conversation that just goes and flows because there's some issues of some of the things he would he said and and no disrespect meant to him
04:55: But I don't think he understood some Christological issues as well as he needs to and the freewill issues as well this this stuff takes time to work through it's not something you just Figure out in a year or two
05:07: We got all these different areas because when you it's like a big building and you start shifting the bricks around in the foundation
05:14: You can't do everything at once You got to move this and read just that that kind of a thing. That's that's what's going on.
05:21: Love Joshua Gibbs He's a brother in the Lord. Yep. You want more on emotions in Scripture? Yeah, I was getting that a little bit built on the issue and you know this thing earlier when he was saying what he was saying about Relational I couldn't make sense of what he was saying
05:35: Let's only ask you is that just me and my Asperger's or was it hard for others as well to kind of get what he
05:41: Was saying and be honest, you know everything was just me. Okay, that's fair But I'm having trouble understanding
05:48: Or I had a trouble understanding what he said until finally you get that one thing and then I don't think he understood
05:53: What he was saying Run the patients with people who refuse to represent Calvinism correctly.
05:59: Yeah. Yeah the preacher. Let's see. Here we go a preacher in there All right.
06:05: All right, he's in Oh Sure, how you doing?
06:12: I'm doing all right. How you doing blue man? I'm doing great. I'm doing I'm doing phenomenal So you come up in my stream all that like you come up on my
06:26: Like recommended all the time. I've been wanting to talk to you for a really long time actually a lot of too bad
06:31: I just now got to go. Oh man out of time. Wow. Look at the time. Come on.
06:37: Okay, what do you got buddy? I'll hang I'm just You're you're focused on Bible, yeah,
06:44: I try to be you know, it's gotta be okay. Yeah. Well, I Wanna I want to do this.
06:50: I'm good. Like I want to be on good terms with you I really don't I don't want to worry about it. It's all right. Are you sure? Yeah. Okay, so a
06:58: Lot of people have actually wanted me to talk to you for a very long time a lot of people Okay, there's a lot of people that I know that used to watch your show and though it just there's a lot with the
07:06: Bible I I have a question for you, sir. Okay? What do you have a denom? Well, this isn't the question, but do you do you have a denomination?
07:14: Do you have anything that you specifically call yourself? I Just say my five -point now. I'm millennial pedo -baptist non -cessational covenantal
07:21: Calvinist Baptist churches non -denominational.
07:30: I've attended a Lutheran one a little bit Yeah, it's just I'm all over you know,
07:37: I don't have any denominational loyalty, okay So where does your loyalty lock with Jesus?
07:42: It's not sure. Are you sure? Yeah thousand percent Well, I'm about a hundred but yeah, okay.
07:48: Can I ask you a question? No, you just did but go ahead What this is this is the question. Do you send sure? Oh, you better believe
07:55: I do. Yeah So, you know how serious that is, uh -huh, okay, can you pull up one verse for me sure what verse
08:03: John 8 34 Okay Your loyalty lies with Jesus.
08:09: Then you have yeah word. You have to trust that he means what he says. Uh -huh There's no way out of us. Okay Everyone who commits sins a slave of sin.
08:18: Yeah everybody who commits in Is a slave of sin.
08:24: Yeah, so if you still sin You don't know him yet. Okay. Did you hear that sound?
08:31: No, that's my computer. No, no the ripping sound What is that of a verse they ripped out of context?
08:37: I didn't you didn't hear that Actually, actually when he when he says this Johnny 34 when he says it he's speaking to Levitical Pharisees He's speaking to the
08:46: Levitical priests. So if they're held to that standard what makes you think you're getting out of it?
08:52: You're not so do you have you had any Greek at all? Greek doesn't matter. Yes, it does matter.
08:59: Yes, it does Okay, hold on. No, hold on. Hold on. You got yet. Yes, it does matter So so you what you're saying if somebody explain why they can't explain why let me explain
09:08: If somebody's they can't be if they don't speak Greek, they can't be saved Okay. Now here's the thing
09:15: You're being obstreperous. No. Yes, you are Could you hold on a second and let me speak you to the scripture man?
09:24: Okay I'm asking you. Can you let me speak? Is that okay? All right
09:30: Now have you had any Greek at all? Just curious. I'm asking the question Yes, you have yes, can you parse a me
09:41: I Don't know what you mean by that. Okay, so you to parse is one of the very first things you learn in Greek Amy present active indicative first person singular.
09:53: That's what it means to parse. Okay. So now do you know what a participle is in Greek?
10:00: But do you know what a participle is in Greek not in Greek? I know what it is in English. It's the same thing
10:06: What's a participle in English? Present participle,
10:12: I'm trying to remember somebody did give me the definition of this and I've been through this but that's he just means what he says
10:17: Okay Look, do you speak another language by any chance? No Spanish sort of okay.
10:24: You're a thing. Oh hombre, right? If you say that literally, it's I I have hunger, but we don't do that in English.
10:29: We say I have hung. I'm hungry Yeah, okay. So we have a way of languages don't parse straight over now
10:37: If I were to say to somebody like my wife who speaks French I can say what's the present active indicative of the verb
10:43: To eat pronounce that from and she won't give it to me. Exactly. Hold on. Let me finish
10:49: This is important to know what languages are what they mean when we come to this. It says whoever commits sin
10:55: Whoever commits sin. Yeah Okay, you need to really be patient, okay and you got it means what it says
11:05: It's what it says in the part is a participle it means what it's a yes it right it means what it says
11:11: Now, what does it say? Says if you sin, you're the servant of sin What does it say?
11:19: If you sin, you're the servant of sin. Okay, so does it say that it says commit sin?
11:24: It doesn't say if you sin, so you misread it commit. Okay, and so if it commits in now, hold on You're trying to go with what it says and I'm trying to show you that you're reading into the text
11:34: You don't understand what you're doing and you're making you don't know you do not know. No, you don't
11:41: Know you don't hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on If you don't work with me of this,
11:47: I'm gonna kick you out. Okay, I don't have much patience with the impatient What it says is if you commit you commit sin is in the participle one more time
11:57: Could you tell me what a participle is? I don't dude. I will destroy the wisdom. Okay All right, so you don't know what it is and yet you're making a doctrine out of one verse
12:07: Participle means that it's a continuing action. The participle means continuing action. My loyalty is to Christ not to your knowledge
12:15: Okay You're being a fool. No, I'm trying to tell you something. You need to keep quiet for a second.
12:21: Keep quiet. Keep stop. Stop Stop. I'm telling you what it was spoken This is the words of Christ who used a participle if you continue on in sin is is what it's saying
12:31: It's a part. It's a look. Look. Look. It's a participle a present active
12:38: Participle in Greek it means that those who are in the process of continuing to commit it
12:45: That's what's going on there. You don't know that because Because preacher you're ignorant.
12:52: Nope. Yes, you are. You said you took Greek. You couldn't parse a me You said you know what a participle was.
12:58: You didn't know what that was. You didn't understand what it is here I'm trying to tell you you know, you don't now did
13:05: Paul sin. No, no Paul never sinned Okay, do you sin? Do you sin?
13:10: Do you sin used to do you sin now present tense? Do you sin first John 3 9 do you sin is the question?
13:18: Do you say? Do you sin? Do you sin and not sin? Do you sin?
13:25: I'm asking the question. Do you say currently? No, I can't. Okay. So then let me ask you another question
13:31: Sin is compliance with the law of sin is compliance with the law of God, right? I'm not under the law
13:36: It's compliance with the okay. You're so ignorant about so many things
13:43: Sin is lawlessness sin is lawlessness Keep quiet for a second sin is law
13:52: Okay, I'm gonna have to mute you. Okay, because you won't let me finish. I'm gonna mute you to teach you
13:57: All right, you're muted. So everything you say won't go anywhere Sin is lawlessness first John 3 4
14:04: So if you don't sin, it means you're not being lawless It means if the
14:10: Bible says don't lie That could if you lie, that's a sin. So if you don't lie, you're abiding by the law.
14:17: That's all I'm saying Because the law brings the knowledge of sin So you have to know that's what sin is
14:24: So you say you don't sin which means you don't break the law which means in the moral law
14:30: You never lie never cheat never anything right good. That means you're doing it on the same level as Jesus Go ahead.
14:40: So you are you keeping the law and doing this as on the same level as Jesus? Let me ask is that what it is?
14:46: Jesus fulfilled the law. Okay. I asked you a question Are you keeping that law and doing what's necessary on the same level as Jesus?
14:54: Are you gonna let me can I have a minute? Yeah, just answer the question Are you doing it on the same level as Jesus?
15:00: Perfect? Yes Okay, so you Are and don't sin but yet you're arrogant in that you claim equality with the moral standard and righteousness of God himself
15:13: I am his righteousness Okay, so what you are an example of what you're an example of is arrogant self -deception
15:23: No weight wallowing in sin who doesn't know And who doesn't understand the
15:29: Greek doesn't understand what's going on doesn't understand that you don't understand what you're doing and you are dangerous
15:35: Now, let me ask you a question. Can you lose your salvation? Can you lose your salvation?
15:41: Absolutely. Okay. What do you have to do to keep it? I'm gonna Give me a list of three things you gotta do to keep your salvation
15:47: Forgive everybody for everything forever forgive everything for everybody. Okay, you six 1450 forgive all okay number two
15:55: What don't what judge don't judge. Okay Okay, and then love what will both of those is to love as he loved us.
16:06: Yeah as God loved Okay, so so you keep your salvation by forgiving all not judging and loving as God did.
16:14: Yeah Oh, wow. Could you do me a favor like this? I Don't really appreciate the sarcasm.
16:23: I mean, I'm trying to have a real conversation with you. I would just know you're not You're not trying to have a real conversation because you kept interrupting and you're trying to demand certain things certain ways
16:30: So you're the one who blew it. You're the one who's saying that you keep your salvation by your good
16:35: You're the one that still sins and serves sin. Okay, you don't understand what
16:40: John 834 is teaching is It's a part is simple and it's not about those who just happen to do it once or twice
16:47: And you don't know because you're stinking ignorant. You're calling Jesus a liar. No, I'm not you don't understand what he's saying
16:54: You're calling Jesus a liar. No, no, no, no, don't be a fool So you are the one who says you keep yourself right with the infinitely
17:01: Holy God by how you forgive all You don't judge and you're doing it right now because you're judging me.
17:08: Yes, you are You're saying that I'm calling Jesus a liar. That's judging me. You are a hypocrite
17:15: You're a hypocrite Hold on a sec muted. I love being them in power.
17:21: And now look folks. What he's saying is don't judge yet He's judging he forgives all but he has to do that on the level of Christ and he has to love as God loved everybody
17:31: Which is a standard of God himself. This guy is so arrogant. Yeah, what's incredible?
17:37: You know, what's worse and more sad in my eyes is That he's denying the inspiration of Scripture Wow the the writer he's gone doggone it
17:48: I wanted him to take them out the verses the verses you're quoting to him say in a straightforward manner
17:53: Not just those who sin but those who commit habitual sin as a is as a manner of lifestyle
18:01: That's what he's talking about. That's not Christians. He doesn't want to hear it. I know but it's a straightforward
18:08: Phrase in the Greek that is airtight, but he wants to go to the the wooden English Corruption if you don't want to go to the original,
18:16: I don't think the English was inspired at all It just says, you know those who commit sin. Oh, that's a good point
18:22: English inspired. No, then we have to go to the Greek That's exactly that's what they were inspired to write it in and it's a very technical language with straightforward meanings
18:31: It's not magical language that you have to float three feet off the ground to understand like the guys in the 1800s the scholars used to call it corn a
18:40: Greek the Holy Ghost language They used to call it now. They found out it was the language of the street.
18:46: That's right Paul used it quite salty too. I mean the language of the street. Oh, he said some stuff that From a lot of churches.
18:55: No guys arrogant and self -deceived and and he's demanding and how it has to be this way
19:00: He doesn't want to learn what it actually says He is not interested in that because he has an agenda and the
19:05: Word of God has to submit it to what he says It means yeah What is sad is when he would will submit one day if he does to the real
19:13: Word of God and what it's actually Saying it might enhance his walk with Christ.
19:19: It might deepen his faith It might bring him closer to God to understand the straightforward meaning of the language and he won't
19:26: Look like or parade himself around as such a ignorant fool
19:33: That's nothing to be proud of. He's proud of what he's sticking to and That's sad.
19:38: That's one of the saddest things and I hope people that have witnessed what he's doing to himself are praying for him because that's
19:46: I Don't know of anything. That's that's worse. Yeah, and he this isn't one of this the telltale tight
19:53: Of a Problem that people have when they don't study the ink the Greek there are times when it's necessary to study the
20:01: Greek Because like for example in Romans 5 18, you can't get that right unless you started the
20:06: Greek. Sorry, but that's what it is John 3 16 It's also a Greek necessary verse a lot of people don't get and a lot of times
20:14: I'll quote 1st John 3 6 and here's something a lot of people don't know about the Greek So I'm going to give you an example of something
20:20: Remember I've had and ever main he's got a PhD you can talk about this, too But I'm gonna tell you something about about in English just so you guys understand this
20:31: In English, you know, I walk and Here I am walking.
20:37: Okay, so we have a present tense and a participle. I walk I am walking
20:43: So in in English, we just have the value of one and a value of ten I'm gonna just illustrate something here.
20:49: One is I walk ten as I walking and you have this range of intensity of walking things like that theoretically
20:57: The reason I'm bringing that up is because in English it's I walk or I'm walking It's just one or ten so to speak but in Greek The I walk in the present tense is about a two or three it has a little bit of an implication of a participial form of Ten of walking and what it means is that they do this in the
21:19: English They do it in the present tense and it's continuing just in a slight sense of continued action
21:24: That's what's going on there. But a full hey, you're just absolutely doing it as participial form
21:29: Yeah, I learned this in graduate school Westminster Theological Seminary. So when people go to first John 3 6
21:36: No one who abides in him in him sins it's in that Greek which has that slight meaning of of Continued action.
21:44: That's why some translators say who practices it and What I always like to do with people who say they don't sin anymore.
21:51: Well, really so you're keeping the law on an equal level of Jesus There are ignorant
22:02: Yeah, I don't know if it was you Matt or if it was Dave Somebody who had an understanding of Spanish was talking to a
22:10: Jehovah's Witness in my house in Southern, California and Their English was not as good as their
22:17: Spanish so one of you guys took over but whoever it was Explained to them something that he explained to me later in an elementary form since I'm not a
22:26: Spanish speaker but they were talking about knowing Jesus and He pointed out to me that Yeah English hardly even has gender.
22:36: So better is to know Saturdays to know But do you do you go no sir, yeah, do you know
22:45: Jesus conosimiento? Knowing yes,
22:50: I very personal intimate friendly relationship. So there's to know severe
22:56: To know in your head Kona's there and then to know in a personal dream, right?
23:03: Conocimiento is a very English is not a very precise
23:15: It's very precise, right and you can add you've had
23:20: Greek, right? Yes, and Spanish. Oh, I was just on y 'all.
23:25: We'll see the practical legal. Hey so Yeah, so for example
23:32: I'm yo coming. No, that's coming. No, I walk right, right
23:40: What's the participle? the Coming on right so I feel like Spanish believers
23:51: They study Greek have a better example of Partisan if they do, right?
24:00: so sinless perfectionism Is an ignorance?
24:08: It's arrogant phrases in Greek right and he went to an interview saw but he went to john 834 the
24:15: Jesus has who who commits sins a Slave of sin. I'm just reading what it says. I go, but the Greeks it's a participle.
24:21: It's a part of simple It's an ongoing action of participation. I don't need man's wisdom. That's what Jesus said
24:27: He what just doesn't want to know People like that are cult leaders. They start cults.
24:32: You see the man. He's on to a man. He wait a minute many Santos Are you the same man? He's Santos.
24:38: I knew ten years ago All right was curious Tell me that I hope okay, that'd be nice.
24:48: But unfortunately the man is dude. You got an email me We gotta catch up man. How you doing?
24:57: But I was gonna say unfortunately that that man is missing the rich meaning of the text
25:02: And he doesn't have to the apparatus is not pure on the internet nowadays for everybody to know
25:08: He could gain that richer understanding of what's being said in and he's missing a blessing in Yeah, I mean, you know
25:20: Like to be very honest With you if you ask me that's different to parse
25:29: Amy I probably wouldn't be able to tell you present active indicative like what you just said
25:38: Doesn't active indicative for you. I can open up logos They're all our guys
25:45: Get it Greek scholars
25:50: My degree is not in which my degree is not in yeah tell you so my
26:00: My posture is what I want to go to those who studied
26:06: The New Testament to help me with Greek. Oh Yeah, I use logos too.
26:13: I had four and a half years of Greek, but I had it 30 years ago And I'm very rusty, but I remember enough to know the basics and if someone's gonna say they've studied
26:21: Greek I'm gonna quiz them. What's Agathos? You know, what's a nominative genitive dative accusative?
26:26: These are the basics, right? So they don't know I don't tell me you know, you studied
26:32: Greek. Okay, I just don't buy that Right. Yeah, just don't ask me to show you my dipthong
26:40: Dipthongs. Yeah, you're a big dipthong That's what happens to guys who are wearing skinny bathing suits when they go in the water
26:50: They dip thong. That's right. We had a we had a joke in our Greek class So which we said to each other, you know, the
26:57: Greek have a word for that Literally they have words that take a trunk full of oh, yeah,
27:05: I mean because their words are so yeah Chiragraphon and the handwritten
27:10: IOU of legal indebtedness And those native speakers it was no mystery
27:15: But to us we have to unpack it and when we unpack it sometimes it's a trunk full of meaning. Oh, yeah, very blessed meanings
27:24: So Nelson Nova if you want to find the debate just go here I'll put it in and you can see the links to it
27:34: Calendar okay. There it is If I may say you may not
27:40: I don't think that the debate tour Ever answered my question.
27:48: What was your question? so my question was He had a very emotional response
27:57: Regarding the fact that we as 21st century
28:03: Christians must be able to say Christ died for you my question was in response to that statement of if you look at the book of Acts the
28:19: Apostles or any believers never said whether in personal conversation or preaching to the masses
28:32: Christ died for you What do you say to that? That's a good point.
28:38: I want to go through and check it and verify because it's just a good point a Lot of stuff that people believe today is just not in the
28:44: Bible, you know, it has to be a legitimate offer What does that mean a legitimate offer? Well, not the way you say it
28:51: Well, you know that you're saying legitimate offer has to be defined by what you say It means it can't be what I mean, right and they do this people don't they don't realize they're doing it's a good point
29:00: Ed I'm surprised you came up with that Right, so my PhD in church history
29:07: Means something right, but you that's right. You have a PhD PhD in church history We should talk because there's some church history stuff particularly church fathers.
29:16: I want to get into Amen. All right, but you're a good guy. I've known you how long we've known each other
29:24: Since at least 2008 maybe before that.
29:30: Okay, so 20s I still remember when
29:35: I came up to you. We've met the first time at Manti I think was close to the first time and you were listening.
29:41: I walked up right Walked right behind you and got down and you Remember that you you were surprised.
29:49: Oh I was not only surprised Don't don't downplay what happened.
29:56: You scared the crap out of me good Yep, and you had
30:04: West gray hair back then my friend That is so true
30:10: And I gave you a big hug right? Yeah, you did that's right. It was nice seeing you man.
30:16: It was yeah, that's right Hey, let me address something. We'll get is want to talk.
30:22: I was discord has a server PNR politics religion and I've not gone on there for about a week and a half because of something that happened there
30:33: I'm only saying this because this guy brought it up. I go in there normally and I talk and people ask me questions and I still have a very bad reaction even thinking about going back in there and What happened was
30:48: I was in there a bunch of unbelievers are there and I preached the gospel. I preached that gospel message and Lo and behold
30:59: Believers who claimed to be Christians Attacked me for being a Calvinist and I shouldn't preach it
31:05: Why should I preach the gospel you're a Calvinist and they attacked and it became a dogpile against me
31:12: In that room when I told people to shut up, I can't deal with everybody Only one at a time and they and this one guy's
31:19: Nephilim free moron Nephilim free Kept interrupting me constantly and Wasn't allowed to speak and teach and they were it's a full -on dogpile attack right after I gave the gospel
31:34: You'd think it will go. Hey, man, praise God. You gave the gospel No, they do attack me on my views on reformed theology.
31:41: It left such a Very bad taste in my mouth that I have not been back Yes, here's the gospel message
31:52: Jesus Christ died on the cross he's God and flesh this is it You know, I gave that gospel and and and and then after that I was attacked
32:01: It was attacked. And so I have not been back and I've hardly been on discord
32:08: In fact, I don't think I've been on and talked to anybody. I don't know if I have I Don't know if I'm gonna go back Randall you were there talk to me.
32:18: Tell me what you heard Randall. I want to know about this Okay I'm serious. It's upset me so much
32:26: That these people that they it was more important that they attack Calvinism and misrepresent it and not let me say no.
32:33: That's not what we teach us that isn't it? Then even get the gospel out. What is wrong with them?
32:40: What is wrong with them? And I mean wrong It's just oh
32:47: It's just it I haven't been back I mean, it's just horrible go ahead truth defenders.
32:53: Hey Matt, how are you? Okay, good. Hey during the debate you mentioned that you hadn't really read
33:00: Calvin or Now that's gonna take a lot of people by surprise Can you explain how then you arrive at your reform doctrines in Calvinism without her
33:12: Martin Luther? Because it's just people read scriptures bottom line, right?
33:20: What it comes down to eternal security I believe before I ever went to college because Jesus says my sheep hear my voice and I give eternal life to them and they
33:27: Shall never perish and I went okay a general security. They'll never perish. That's what he said And I knew
33:33: I wasn't good enough to be a Christian I know and I had an experience of all things and you guys probably heard of that But it was
33:41: God's movement not mine and he chose me. He saved me and and I just know
33:46: There's nothing good in me and then God granted that I believe it was by his work I don't have any problem with God electing and choosing.
33:53: He knows everything He doesn't look into the future to see who's gonna pick him and then he elects them. That's favoritism.
33:59: That doesn't work limited atonement was the one I had a problem with total depravity and made perfect sense when
34:05: I read the scriptures, you know that You know And I mentioned that it seems lately that most non
34:15: Calvinist Keep pointing to to the Reformation to Martin Luther and John Calvin the way the
34:22: Muslims keep pointing to the Council of Nicaea as if Everything that we believe started there
34:29: You know, they owe it's your your Doctrine started in the 15th century in the 1500s and that's all they know.
34:37: They've never said no. No, I say no it didn't I said I go back to Matthew Mark Luke John Acts Romans Corinthians.
34:44: That's where we have to go. Amen, brother God bless you That's right So I agree with brother
34:51: Matt and that we should go back to Scripture but I would also argue as somebody that has
35:03: Studied a little bit of church history in that the doctrines of grace
35:11: Predate Calvin so if you look at the epistle of Clement to the to the
35:22: Romans taught about the book About the doctrine, excuse me the doctrine of election.
35:31: It's very very clear Hey, buddy, you need to give me those quotes so I can document them put them in it also talks about conditional immortality
35:40: I Said that again now, he just was a hit -and -miss conditional immortality.
35:46: Yeah origin didn't he was a heretic So, you know, we could talk about a conditional immortality and stuff like that.
35:52: But no, I meant Clement I mean about the stock father Clement you can argue against it. I suppose but it's
35:59: Here's my church father. Give it up your church father. You just go with what Scripture said, right? Exactly Yeah, okay.
36:05: Well somebody else was gonna jump in is I think or yeah Yeah, I was kind of having trouble earlier, all right, hello there, yeah, my name's is um,
36:14: I used to be a Calvinist I you know, I used to watch you Okay, James James white, you know
36:22: What's that I think I don't know but you get the point yeah, um, well I'm Perry's friend the guy that just left and I just kind of wanted to pick up where he left off.
36:33: You know, I think you kind of got you kind of got the Idea You're breaking up it's hard to follow you
36:40: All right, so I'm I'm Perry's friend the guy that Perry the guy that just left like 20 minutes ago.
36:56: Okay All right All right
37:05: Kind of yeah, but anyway, what's your question? All right, so let me ask you um First on a three nine cents since you speak
37:14: Greek. I mean, does that mean exactly what it says? See, that's a question. You see doesn't mean exactly what it says.
37:22: Yes in the English or in the Greek just to you Okay, hold on you got to be careful when you say something like does it mean what it says
37:32: Okay, yeah, you got to be careful You got to be careful when you say that the reason is is because When people ask me that kind of question what they're often saying is does it mean what it says as I understand it
37:48: Matt? Do you agree with it? Does it mean what it says? They're often saying that what they think it means
37:54: That it's a hidden agenda Now if I say no, I don't agree with what it says, but what kind of a question is that the question is
38:03: Saying and there are times when it we need to go to the Greek. Do you understand that? You know, for example when when
38:09: Jesus said, you know to Peter you love me You agape me. You love me.
38:15: You got me me. Do you love a filet? Oh me, you know about that, right? Do you know that really
38:21: John 21, huh? But I'm just telling you that Sometimes you have to understand what the
38:29: Greek is saying to get a better understanding of certain things And what's going on in 1st John 3 9 the one who has no one who's born of God as the
38:37: NASB says practices sin And why do you think what's he would they would do that say practices?
38:45: Because oh, why why is this practices? Yeah, because it's it's a
38:51: Practicing is the same as doing That means you do it your practice. And if you practice the answer, let me ask you a question
38:59: Hold on So, let's just say John 3 6 to back me up. Okay. Hold on.
39:04: Hold on. I'm kicking you out Okay, hold on so let me ask you a question let's say that we have a guy and he's married the whole bit and He you know, he's at a mall and he sees an attractive woman
39:19: He just looks at her maybe a second or two longer than he should have All right, now let's just say he's not supposed to do that is that a sin
39:30: It depends if he thinks that's wrong. Yes Okay, so let's just say it's a sin. Let's say he thought something.
39:35: He shouldn't have thought let's say it was a sin and he Goes, what were you thinking? Okay, that's bad. Now. Is he practicing sin?
39:43: Yes, if he thinks if he thinks that he did he just stopped Yes, he just stopped
39:50: I said is he practicing sin Wait a minute
39:58: Here's a notice everybody notice this I ask specific questions I get different answers
40:04: I didn't ask that I said is he practicing sin if he does this for a few seconds and Stops, is he now practicing sin?
40:15: Maybe not for the moment Okay, so the answer is no now, okay, so the one who practices sin now, wait a minute
40:25: If he's practicing, let's say that he goes back to the mall the next day and sees her again And he let's say lusts for two seconds.
40:32: He stops it. Now. Is he practicing sin again? No, but he committed it, right?
40:39: Okay. Yeah, but is he practicing sin or did he fall twice and during a 24 -hour period was he practicing that sin?
40:50: No, I would say yeah I would say there was moments where he wasn't practicing it but in between that 24 -hour period he committed it, right?
40:59: No, not between at the beginning at the end of the 24 -hour period. Let's just say exactly so I'm trying to get you to think because these people don't think and they just react
41:12: Kind of wanted to uh, what does it mean to practice? What does it mean to practice a sin now?
41:21: That means to continue in sin. No, it doesn't say to continue in sin. What does it mean to practice sin?
41:27: What does that mean to practice it to let's go with what you say to continually be involved in it
41:33: Okay, which is what John 8 34 is saying when Jesus says you commit sins in the participial form, which is
41:39: ING It means eating walking Okay, he who is committing the sins is a slave of sin, that's what he's saying so if Somebody wants to practice a sin you can agree that he broke the law, right?
41:56: Because 1 John 3 4 says sin is a transgression of the law, right? Any sin temporal Five seconds long, you know an hour long is sin.
42:04: Yeah So now Romans 4 15 says where there is no law there is no sin
42:11: So so sin is it it's a spiritual law that Jesus did away with by fulfilling the law
42:19: Okay, do you sin? Boy, I can't Okay, I'm asking have you look if you get unrighteously angry
42:31: Yeah, I asked you I didn't say do people get angry I said do you get unrighteously angry at all
42:39: I Mean that it's not the right way to do you do something wrong in your anger You're angry of somebody for a wrong thing
42:46: I would say no because the Bible says that he who knows to do good but but does not to him it is in Okay, I can't so you so you don't sin anymore, right?
42:56: I Can't because okay. The answer is you don't sin anymore, right? I Can't my actions are my actions are not sin as it were before So if you were if you were arrogant, would that be a sin
43:20: Okay, so is your heart pure and perfect it is
43:30: One at a time this gang dog said be perfect even even as your father in heaven Matthew 540 has to do with loving everybody equally doesn't mean about the thing in chart
43:39: So you're telling me because you ripped that verse out of context So I think that might be sinful to misuse it misuse the words of Jesus himself in order to gain a
43:48: Position that is wrong. So I think you might have committed a sin. So all right, here's the thing Is that okay
43:56: Here's what you're telling me. Is that you are Sinless and that you keep that you're as sinless as Jesus was sinless on earth, right?
44:06: Yes, can I give you two verses just to expand on that a little bit? No, no. No, I got these verses I know these verses that people go through.
44:13: I'm just asking you. I'm just saying you keep the law Just like Jesus did perfectly
44:18: Romans 8 forces says that the law was fulfilled in us. Yes, because of what Jesus did
44:23: It fulfilled doesn't mean it's gone That doesn't mean what's gone Doesn't mean the law is gone if it's fulfilled in Christ Don't make a mistake of thinking the law is no longer there if Jesus fulfilled it because fulfillment
44:39: It has to do with his prophetic work that he did Now do you keep so your heart is as pure and as perfect as Jesus art
44:51: Yes, because in 1st John it says that he to be in the light even as he is in light, okay
45:02: You misapplied it mr. Arrogant You're prideful and you're arrogant. And so you keep the law as well as Jesus and your heart is as good as Jesus Wow, so your heart is as good as Jesus in his purity, right?
45:20: I Want everybody here you think that you and your heart as are just as pure and righteous as Jesus Right.
45:33: I'll tell you why yes. Yes Now give me a one verse at a time one verse. Let's see if you can back that up 14 says by one offering which is
45:44: Jesus. He has perfected them that are sanctified So it's just by faith.
45:49: It's not it's not by you doing this or not doing that. What does perfected mean? You don't say anymore.
45:56: I have no iniquity. I cannot break the law. It says no. No, you're reading in the text. Mr I speak by one offerings perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
46:05: Okay, perfected. What does it mean? Perfect means no longer sin Exactly. He needs to be born of him. Can you show me that in Scripture?
46:12: Can you show me that it is true that it means you can't sin? Romans 6 6 whosoever is dead is freed from sin.
46:20: Okay Better verses that is Romans 6 2 and Romans 7 4. Look you went to Hebrews 10 16 or 10 14 and I quiz you on Romans 10 14 and you jump to Romans 6 6
46:34: Let me pull it up no, no, no you went to Hebrews 10 14 By one offering is perfected all time.
46:41: Now. I want you to pay attention You said that we're perfected means they don't sin anymore Yes No, no, no, that's what can you show me that that's what it means that it means you don't sin anymore
46:59: All right. Yes, I can. So Jesus said be perfect even even as your father in heaven is perfect.
47:06: What verse is that? that's Matthew 5 48.
47:13: He was a context is I mean, I mean, it's pretty obvious. I mean, do you know for context is
47:20: I Would have to read it. But okay, so you don't know what the context is, but it's starting in verse 43
47:28: It's no it's first 43 you let the rains God listed a rain sign on the on the fall in the good and the bad the
47:34: Sun on the good and the bad and That you are to love Just as if as God the Father loves equal everybody equally therefore be perfect your father in heaven is perfect You just ripped it out of context.
47:45: You don't even know what it means now So, can you show me where it says that the word perfected here means you don't sin anymore
47:57: Might not have the word perfected in the verse, but yeah, I mean Romans 6 7 he who is dead is freed from sin
48:05: Okay, so I asked about I asked about the word I asked about the word the word
48:13: Okay, the word occurs 25 times to let oh, okay, there's 25 times
48:21: Just when genus had finished his words, that's the word to let oh After they were returning after spending the full number of days completing that number of days
48:30: Go tell blah blah blah. Is it the third day? I reach my goal. That's the word again.
48:36: Can you pull up Hebrews? 1223 Hey, you're not listening.
48:42: You don't want to listen You don't care about truth. I Talk to people like you all the time.
48:48: They have an agenda. They Take a look quick do me a favor.
48:53: I'm just curious. Can you look under your feet? I'm gonna see what's under your feet. Is there anything there? You see
48:59: And your feet and you're wearing shoes, right? Is there anything under your feet? The floor.
49:05: What do you I mean? Oh, I was looking for to see if the Bible was under your feet So here's the thing
49:11: That you don't listen you don't want to learn You don't want to learn in your know.
49:18: I used to be a Calvinist sir until I actually started reading I don't care The thing is you don't want to learn you don't care about what the
49:28: Bible actually says When I ask you to prove that what you said a verse means you can't do it
49:36: You really? Come on Come on, okay
49:41: Hebrews 12 23. Is that what you went to right? Yeah Okay to the General Assembly the church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven and to God the judge of all under the spirits
49:51: Of the righteous made perfect. Okay. So the spirit of the righteous made perfect. What does it mean to be made perfect? To be free from sin and be righteous clean holy like Christ.
50:01: Can you show me that from Scripture from the context? Well, I didn't come that prepared, but if you like You quote scriptures that you don't know the context of I Mean sir,
50:15: I can come over prepared. I don't memorize the whole Bible just like that You have to memorize it. You're the one who quoted it
50:21: If you go to me and say well, you know, I quote met Romans 5 18 I can tell you the context 1st
50:27: Corinthians 15 22. We can talk about that and the context there I don't know the context of everything But I'll tell you if you're the one saying that the word perfect here means that it's without there's out sin
50:37: Why is it when I show you other verses that that doesn't mean that? That you ignore it.
50:44: Why do you ignore what's called the semantic domain a Semantic domain means a word has a range of meaning you knew what the word agape means, right?
50:54: Means Grace Something like that, right? No, that's Karis. It's not grace agape
51:02: You know what agape means love. Oh What do you call it
51:10: Undeserving love or something like that, right? So so it means undeserved kindness some call it divine love, right?
51:20: Right. Okay because it says I'm gonna get the show.
51:26: It's been a while. So I got it this verse Because the Pharisees loved their high seats and that's
51:32: Luke 11 43. I'm just showing you that's the word agape So wait a minute agape is
51:38: God. So love the world here. You love your chief seats He a word has a range of meaning in different contexts
51:46: You don't want to take a meaning from one context and transferred over to another That's called illegitimate totality transfer you don't want to do that you can't do that you should not do that, okay
52:00: So you're saying that I'm sitting on some high seat. How is that sir? I'm no what
52:05: I'm saying is you don't know what you're doing when it comes to exegesis You don't know how to interpret scripture.
52:11: This is why you're in such grave error Can I read you a scripture? Try it again
52:19: All right, first Corinthians 1556 that says the sting of death is sin
52:26: The strength of sin is the law So since I am no longer under the law, there is no more strength of sin.
52:34: It's simple. It's very simple John 8 34. Hold on one at a time one at a time.
52:40: Yeah Okay, who's the sting of death is sin the power of sin is the law
52:45: You know what? It means that the power of sin is the law Yes, I do what does it mean It means it means that that the law makes sin abound.
52:55: That's why Paul said When you try to keep the commandment Sin revived in it and it killed
53:02: I agree. No problem there. All right now you want to go to John 8 34 you said
53:08: Yeah, just like Perry Now everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
53:14: Do you know that that's in the participle? Do you know what a participle is when it says commit? Yeah, I think
53:19: I think you were explaining it to him, right? It means I NG It's like saying everyone who is in the state and condition of committing sin
53:28: That's what's going on Now right this preacher guy it is arrogance
53:35: Says I don't need to look at the Greek to see what Jesus himself said. I need to look at what the
53:40: English says That's arrogant foolishness Now, all right, the participle is an ongoing action.
53:50: I am eating. It's a continuing action That's a participle. I eat it means present tense.
53:56: How ongoing is it? It means I eat it means I could be eating You know 15 minutes ago in 20 minutes, you know,
54:05: I I eat something There's an ambiguity there. But what he's Jesus is saying is in the participial form.
54:12: He's actually saying it's an ongoing action Now everyone who is in the habit of ongoing sin is a slave of sin, right
54:21: Right, according to you. Yes. Can I ask you a question, sir? Well, I'm gonna ask you one more if someone who commits commit sin and just let's say someone's a slave of sin for an hour
54:31: Let's just say he has a problem Whatever it is, and he's committing a sin for about an hour.
54:36: Maybe it's pornography, you know, who knows it could be anything He's he's lusting he's he's angry about something.
54:42: He shouldn't be angry It doesn't matter during that period of time. Is he a non -christian? during and after So during he's not a
54:52: Christian and then when does he get his salvation back? I mean
54:58: Christians cannot sin so he never had it Okay. Okay, you know ask you a question.
55:07: Yeah, go ahead. It's just what just what makes What makes you?
55:13: Worthy of eternal life What makes you more worthy of having eternal life than let's say a
55:20: Pentecostal or a Catholic? No, nothing Okay, so do they get eternal life too?
55:28: A Catholic, let's say? If they follow official Roman Catholic theology, no, they don't Why not?
55:35: Because official Roman Catholic theology denies justification by faith In paragraph 2068 of the
55:41: Catechism of the Catholic Church It says they obtain salvation through faith baptism and the observance of the Commandments Here you got 2036 in paragraph 2070 talks about the natural law the expression of the natural laws of 10
55:52: Commandments Keeping them and it's necessary to do that in order to be saved. So they violate Galatians 5 1 through 5 as well as Romans 4 1 through 5 so they violate this so anyone who believes that along with the
56:04: Idolatry of Mary olatory they cannot be truly saved. They're not going to heaven. Okay So that's right what
56:11: I'm telling you now, I'm telling you the same thing That if somebody somebody still sins, that means that that they don't believe on Justification by faith alone.
56:22: I said and I believe in justification by faith alone But you sin because you can address the law.
56:31: Yeah, I still I'm not perfect I don't say that my heart is as perfect as Jesus man Why does
56:36: Roman I'm not an arrogant Wait, there is no law.
56:41: There is no sin. Yeah when there is no law and yeah, that's correct There is no law. There is no sin.
56:46: Did Jesus remove the law? He fulfilled it for you. Did he remove the law?
56:53: He fulfilled it. No, he did. I know that he fulfilled it Matthew 5 17. Did he remove the law?
56:59: No, I didn't then is the law still here Yes, it is is it still wrong to lie
57:07: Not for me It's okay for you to lie Yes, yes, because because it's not a clean from I'm already justified.
57:16: You can lie. Oh, so you're probably lying to me right now No, I can't trust you
57:21: Man, so you say lines, okay Mr. Antonomian, okay, let's just move on.
57:29: Let's just go to see Jamie or MJ you guys can talk jungle Jargon, go ahead Yeah, so my question is
57:37: To the person that was just talking to Matt. I'm not sure what your name is
57:45: He's gone Is I'm not gonna let him back on this it's ridiculous. These guys contradict themselves so much.
57:51: They're so arrogant They're so foolish in what they say you catch them in stuff and then they they don't answer your direct questions.
57:59: They answer something else They're not interested in learning and being corrected. Their arrogance is incredible. They say they don't sin
58:05: They keep the law and their attitude of loving God love your neighbor on the level of Jesus himself
58:10: So they don't sin anymore. And then this guy said yeah, it's okay for him to lie because we're just if I may say their doctrine their teaching of sin is too low
58:28: Their doctrine of sin is too small They don't understand They may
58:34: I'm not saying I've saved but these are the kinds of things that you wonder if you're really saved I'll see it.
58:40: And so, you know, it's just really a problem So now the next question would have been
58:47: I'm not gonna get into it because but also lying is not a sin anymore for I guess adultery is not a sin anymore, you know, it's just Shut up and sit down and stop talking is what need to do because they're hindering the body of Christ and they're sowing seeds of discord
59:03: They're causing problems. All right, come on somebody else talk Jordan Do Sinless perfectionist
59:14: Worship God The way he ought to be That's why I said love God and love your neighbor as yourself on that level of Jesus and he said yes
59:23: I do it the same level as Jesus did What do you do with a super prideful person like that?
59:38: I thought he was saying he just fakes it like like he's just like saying like God Jesus did away with all of that So I can't sin you only sin if you if you acknowledge that there is a law that's not done away with Isn't that what he was saying?
59:51: I could It's I you know these guys I I've dealt with them before In fact the first I had a really interesting debate with one of the representatives up in Montana a few years ago
01:00:00: And I remember it would weren't allowed to have a cross -examination Which I didn't know until I was there.
01:00:06: But at any rate Jesse Morrell, yeah, and I remember
01:00:11: I still remember being Shocked by what I was hearing in the people in the debate.
01:00:18: I was in still if they're doing the debate. I'm going You guys don't believe you sin. I think everybody goes.
01:00:24: No Well, well Matt, there's the gospel. They didn't even know Matt and your article on the sinless perfection.
01:00:31: You put an interesting note When you said and I posted it notice that John the
01:00:36: Apostle includes himself. Yeah, let us Here's here's the two verses he posts which includes himself as a sinner.
01:00:45: So are these guys more holy than him as you know Chief of sinners, but doesn't it seem that there's two there's two very very like different versions here.
01:00:56: There's a sinless perfection that says God like whether it be God or yourself or whatever But you literally stop sinning and then there's the sinless perfection
01:01:04: Like I thought this guy was which is like look there is no sin if unless you acknowledge it, right?
01:01:10: So they're not literally holy. He was actually holy But he said He said lying is not a sin for him, right?
01:01:19: And that's busy. That's the thing. It's funny because they're both lying, right? Yeah, but one actually thinks they're being righteous in the law.
01:01:26: The other one thinks they're pretending it away The water cause that kind of lying
01:01:33: Theocratic tack. Yeah Don't need or deserve the truth like me.
01:01:39: They've used it with me. So I Wonder if Romans 1 applies whether God gives them over to the prairie their heart in their mind, so they believe the lie
01:01:48: You know Yeah, I would be
01:01:54: I would never be able to tell you where the line is drawn for any individual but it does happen
01:02:00: Okay, it does happen. Yeah, sadly All right. I got to go in a few minutes. I'm getting a headache has been on a long time.
01:02:06: I'm on for One two three four and a half hours anyway
01:02:14: No, no, hey man, I love you, but here everybody got to know about about Ed here
01:02:21: Because why did I say about your voice the first time we talked? Then I was drunk That's right
01:02:28: Where you from? All right, don't have to say I guess Texas Texas Yeah Yeah, she has cerebral palsy
01:02:40: Yeah, but I grew up near Arkansas. So that doesn't change. Well that explains everything
01:02:47: Right on Degree there. It's like I got my
01:02:55: Terminal degree in Missouri, but I live in Utah now Zero yeah
01:03:11: Yeah Seattle Nice that's right.
01:03:18: You aren't your jungle Hey before I get going Shut this down.
01:03:23: What do you guys think of the debate if you saw it, whatever just give some feedback That's what supposed to do Yeah He was nice enough, but he needs to grow and study a little deeper
01:03:39: Around 30 ish 32 or 3 ish 4 ish 5 ish so to run that range 31
01:03:51: But I've been in higher education For 13 years straight
01:03:58: But, you know, even though you don't have the technical education
01:04:04: That I do I respect you and I submit No, you shouldn't submit but yeah
01:04:11: Well, we respect each other, you know, we both love the Lord and want to serve him and and that's where yeah, that's right
01:04:18: And you know He loves the
01:04:23: Lord as well Like there was nothing that I heard that would make me think.
01:04:30: Oh He denies the essentials of the faith. Oh No Matt did you did you understand my question in the debate or what question did you have a question?
01:04:46: You forgot about okay, what was your question? So so you're oh, you're okay with there being sin in God's creation without a without a covering
01:04:57: I don't understand that what I didn't understand the question You're okay with there being sin in God's creation without a covering without a provision
01:05:08: Okay, what do you mean? Okay. Okay intellectually that it exists. Okay with it as in it's okay to have sin
01:05:15: I don't mind. I don't see what you mean by it's okay in that sense and then without covering in God's creation
01:05:20: I don't mean by God's covering that's not very Explicit and what do you mean by God's creation?
01:05:27: Do you mean that the universe do you mean just in the hearts of people? so you see the question is just I Can't okay.
01:05:34: I Think I think you're trying to avoid it. But anyway, okay. Look I'm gonna tell you something
01:05:40: I am not trying to avoid I'm telling you you didn't form the question well enough
01:05:47: I was trying to be polite and tell you this and then I come back you come back and say oh you're trying to avoid
01:05:53: No, I'm not trying to avoid So goodbye He really doesn't understand the question
01:05:58: What is with people if I don't if I have a trouble if they're not well formed
01:06:05: I'm the one who automatically is trying to hide and avoid I'm tired of idiocy.
01:06:10: You're a Calvinist, you know Yeah, that's right. It's just you know, I'm just so tired of stupidity.
01:06:16: Sorry, but it is What Are you there?
01:06:24: Yes, I'm here So I deal with students all the time that Asked me questions
01:06:34: That they assume That I know the key words right behind their questions, that's right, right, so jungles 50 years old classes
01:06:51: I Have to help them clarify What they are in their questions.
01:06:58: That is true yeah, so With that said
01:07:03: I know when you've been online for four hours You can get very impatient.
01:07:10: I Get tired, you know, it's hard intellectually, but when you do an after -show I just kind of thought about this just a few minutes ago do an after -show
01:07:18: We're talking about the debate not something else People want to come in they want a piece of me and then they get insulting and then they you know
01:07:26: Oh, you're just trying to avoid. Yeah, just Stop I tell people I don't understand your question.
01:07:32: Well, you're just you're lying. Go away, you know It's just we have the worst manners the worst accusations.
01:07:39: I just get tired of it and I do Sometimes it's hard to judge type
01:07:47: What's that? Some people hate you. Oh, you better believe they hate me
01:07:53: Right. They wouldn't say that in so many words. Oh People hate me.
01:07:59: You got that right? You've almost killed me for their hatred Yeah, but others just like the intellectual acumen and word variety to speak in terms of definitions
01:08:18: I Did yeah, I didn't want yeah, you're right I was trying to say a different way But yeah, they lack the training the understanding and a logical acumen to be able to put together this issue properly
01:08:33: It seems to me that this is a problem in the younger creationist community, which I am very much a part of There's conspiratorial thinking and so like if they if they think someone's suspect because they're a
01:08:44: Calvinist or whatever They don't realize that their questions as they understand them The words they're using aren't necessarily so universal as they thought as they may think because there may be
01:08:52: You know only around a certain group or whatever that happens, you know, I think that's what was going on there
01:08:57: I couldn't make I thought usually I can interpret stuff like that But I don't know what he was asking you or what he had a problem with there.
01:09:03: I know jungle he's not a bad guy or anything, but I just wanted to mention real quick that I I asked that click that last question or it was looked like it was the last about or day
01:09:13: I actually agree with you as I'm an I'm a Libertarian free will advocate but I appreciated your answer about the ordination and I I do accept that God ordains all things because he
01:09:25: Creation and he know and he knows beforehand if you don't affirm that it seems to me then you are an open theist period
01:09:34: Yeah, and yeah, all this is caught is Causing me to rethink what
01:09:41: I do online I'm getting to the point where I'm tired of talking to people who just don't want to listen
01:09:47: I'm not saying I get all the answers, but they just don't want to listen. They don't care like these perfection wackos, you know, you tell them something they ignore it, you know,
01:09:57: I at least like we were talking like like Baked guy tonight. He was very polite and he goes.
01:10:03: Hey, you got to give me something to think about it Look at this, you know, okay, it's fair And if you don't know something you say it and you go on but these guys know
01:10:10: I'm not listening What does it say? Don't you believe what it says Matt? You know, it's like they're forceful and demanding and it's like but you can't do that.
01:10:19: It's not what it says in the Greek I don't care about the Greek These people are foolish It's you think it might be because because of so it's so rampant that people don't have any respect for the law
01:10:29: It seems to me this is just like this is this extreme version of that it seems They don't have respect for people of God anymore, right?
01:10:37: Claiming to be some great person of God, but you know like my opponent tonight He's a pastor before we started the debate.
01:10:44: I prayed for all three of us. I prayed for him I prayed for him in the debate to represent
01:10:50: God accurately and truthfully and he had got injured and he's okay Today in an accident on job and I prayed for his healing.
01:10:58: I prayed for that, you know Because that's what we need to do. The gospel is more important than these particulars.
01:11:04: That's it Charlie I don't even know what I know that he's you know, he believes the essentials and that's that's what matters.
01:11:10: So Matt if I may say Yeah, yeah, so the person that spoke just before you yeah because people
01:11:22: Know who you are Swig of calm org
01:11:30: They can be a little apprehensive and nervous to speaking to you and therefore
01:11:39: They speak very fast And they do not think about what they're saying.
01:11:46: There's a there's a lot of arrogance out there right and Ignorance and arrogance to where is this is tremendous and they don't care about being corrected at all so Verde blue.
01:12:01: Hey, I would say you see it's not biblical in any way, huh? I would say go listen to the debate or Go to Colossians 2 14 and look what it says.
01:12:12: He canceled a sin debt at the cross If it's canceled, can you go to hell for a debt that's canceled?
01:12:18: No But who he canceled for everybody then everybody has to go to heaven, but that's not the case
01:12:24: So he only canceled it for a limited group Simple logic deal with Scripture, you know, this is kind of stuff without for the debate go check
01:12:31: Don't say it's not biblical in any way because you don't know always this is a good example of someone That's just not logical.
01:12:37: It's not biblical in any way Wait a minute. You don't know the whole scriptures. You don't know everything that is said you can't say in any way
01:12:47: It's an arrogant thing to say. Yeah, I know the Bible I know it's so well Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic and I'm a
01:12:53: Sunni and I know there's nothing in any way really because 1st John or 1st Emma 314 says that It says that God says he will not at the iniquities of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever
01:13:13: If he does go back in and review the thing and if he reads the articles
01:13:18: I posted he's gonna virtually have a Semesters worth of study on the topic under his belt and then he can then he can give an informed opinion, but You guys you guys hit on on the topic.
01:13:34: Well, and I hope I posted some good articles With the attendant scriptures, that's what's important With the attendant scriptures and I hope that's helpful to some people if he does go back and look at it, right?
01:13:47: because you can pause the thing and take down the link and go look at it in your own time and Come back and correct you if you need it, that's right
01:13:58: Jesus Christ affects salvificly Jezebel what
01:14:08: I Don't know Jesus Christ affects salvificly
01:14:17: Queen Jezebel she was something Jezebel when Jezebel It's not a complete sentence
01:14:26: Queen Jezebel Queen, okay Well, she's saved the same way as we are by the atonement of Christ Correct Salvificly, how does it affect her?
01:14:38: She looks forward to the atonement. We look back to the atonement. She justified by faith the atonement is just as we are
01:14:44: But she's already dead when the atonement happens, right? Went to a holding place most probably and waited and then
01:14:52: Ephesians 4 it goes into effect and some other stuff Was she under the wrath of God?
01:14:58: But that gets the more no she wasn't because she died in hope because she most Abraham was justified by faith
01:15:04: Romans 4 3 so he wasn't and he had less knowledge than she did
01:15:10: Probably see I believe that she was like Lazarus Not Lazarus the rich man under the wrath of God Well, I don't
01:15:22: I don't buy that because if she was just wait just wait a minute you mean, okay Okay, now
01:15:27: I'm tired. Okay, Jezebel the one who was evil Correct. Yeah, okay, and she okay.
01:15:33: Sorry so she was not saved and The atonement didn't cover her sins.
01:15:40: Okay, right Yeah I'm getting overloaded
01:15:47: And I want to get going and now more is coming in and people are asking me stuff and and I just need to go
01:15:52: It's been a long day. All right for me So just check the messages. I left you. I tried to leave it earlier
01:15:58: I wanted to invite you to it to a panel, but just try to contact you I guess yeah that in a couple days to just just to discuss the nature of Christ's death
01:16:08: Maybe or maybe not. We'll see So bro, Wilson as well, oh just say something really fast give you one minute.
01:16:16: Okay, buddy. Could I know you just came in? Otherwise, thank you for Letting me in but for now,
01:16:26: I'll just listen to what you're talking about, sir But thanks anyway, okay.
01:16:32: All right, that's cool. Yeah All right in the Philippines. I could tell yeah, I've been to the
01:16:38: Philippines a certain certain area and same here Matt Oh You did?
01:16:45: Okay, cool. All right guys. Look I'm basically done So I'm gonna shut it out, okay guys.