Debate After show, Slick vs Gibbs

All right.

There we go.

All right.

Just doing the after show here for my debate unlimited atonement with pastor

Gibbs and.

As usually when do an after show it takes a few minutes for people to come in.

So I fill in the time by blabbing and I just updated the

Web page, so we'll see who comes in and how long it takes.

All right.

So we've got two.

Waiting that doesn't make sense and a Facebook page right there.

Okay.

There we go.

All right, so I'm gonna turn the

sound off on that one good and then the sound off on this one good and then

Michael Grudger.

Michael you have to you have to have a microphone and or a A

Camera, you don't need a camera, but if you have a microphone, that's why it says devices not connected.

Michael.

So you're not able to get in.

Okay, if you can hear me Bill hey, praise God.

Yeah.

Ray LaGrange.

Stream yard.

There we go.

Jessie Marie and ought Whatever.

She always does what she ought to do.

Let's see private chat.

Just here for chat, okay.

Oh, you're right there.

Okay.

I see you you have any comments Michael.

He's just in for the chat thing.

That's okay and What I'll do is put this link

in stream yard so that Everybody can see.

Okay, and stream yard in in the thing so you can anybody wants to come in we can talk about stuff really

fast.

If not, no big deal, ah.

It was a good debate to join.

I agree.

You know, he's a pastor and he's saved by the blood of Christ so I Was asked

repeatedly for John 3 18 to be explained duty was flagging it as spam or something.

Really?

So let me go look at John 3 18.

He believes in him is not judged.

He does not believe in him has been judged already because he does not believe the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes, an interesting verse could be understood in a couple different ways, but yeah.

And the King James it says that John 3 18 He believeth on him is not

condemned by King James.

But he that believes not is condemned already because he does not believe in the name of the Son of God.

Yeah, you don't believe you're condemned.

Now that could be get it interesting into ordination election and things like that.

And so some discussions worth there.

Daniel Lundy, you miss a debate.

Okay.

I can mess with.

That's true.

Ken Kendall.

Kendall cook that's right.

I'm the worst.

Hey, we still got to do that thing with the Admin Google.

All right.

Did you see the debate Kendall?

Just see Maria.

Wait for people to come in.

We've got 26 people watching.

Let's see if I go over to There on

YouTube.

I'm looking at Facebook.

I don't really see anything happening on Facebook.

People are watching so I guess that's good.

All right.

So give me some feedback what you guys thought I Thought it went pretty well.

That's that's my opinion.

And Joanne Kendall that we've known each other for I

don't know 15 years.

I have no idea how long it's been.

It's been a long time so

Let's see.

Well, I popped in like that thing in your place.

He popped in like that.

They come on guys.

Come on in here.

You can talk.

If it doesn't pick up, you know bail in 15 minutes go watch TV.

Really fun to be to learn a ton actually listen to that.

Well three hours flew by Setting for truth.

Yeah, so so standing come on in here man, if you want.

Did you repent and come to the truth now?

Did you?

Did you did you so?

Yeah.

It was a great debate.

Yeah, I thought it was good too.

It was fun.

You know was Josh fuller minion I don't know I think what he needed to do is just have a Conversation that

just goes and flows because there's some issues of some of the things he would he said and and no disrespect meant to him.

But I don't think he understood some Christological issues as well as he needs to and the free will issues

as well this this stuff takes time to work through it's not something you just Figure out in a year

or two.

We got all these different areas because when you it's like a big Building and he started shifting the bricks around

in the foundation.

You can't do everything at once you got to move this and read just that that kind of a thing.

That's that's what's going on.

Love Joshua Gibbs.

He's a brother in the Lord.

Yep.

He went more on emotions in Scripture.

Yeah I was getting that a little bit built on the issue and you know this thing earlier when he was saying what he was

saying about Relational I couldn't make sense of what he was saying.

Now similarly ask you is that just me and my Asperger's or was it hard for others as well to kind of get what he Was saying

and be honest, you know, if you think with just me, okay, that's fair.

But I'm having trouble understanding.

Or I had a trouble understanding what he said until finally he got that one thing and then I don't think he understood What he

was saying Around the patients with people who refuse to represent Calvinism correctly.

Yeah.

Yeah the preacher.

Let's see.

Here we go a preacher in there.

Alright, alright, he's in Sure,

how you doing?

I'm doing all right.

How you doing blue man?

I'm doing great.

I'm doing I'm doing phenomenal.

So you come up in my stream all that like you come up on my Like recommended all the time,

but I want to talk to you for a really long time actually a lot of too bad I just now got to go was a job man at a

time.

Wow.

Look at the time.

Come on.

Okay, what do you got buddy?

I'll hang.

I'm just You're you're focused on Bible, yeah,

I try to be you know, it's gotta be okay, you know, well, I Want to I want to do this.

I'm good.

Like I want to be on good terms with you I really don't I don't want to worry about it.

It's all right.

Are you sure?

Yeah.

Okay, so a Lot of people have actually wanted me to talk to you for a very long time a lot of people.

Okay, there's a lot of people that I know that used to watch your show and though it just there's a lot with the Bible I

I have a question for you, sir.

Okay?

What do you have it to not?

Well, this isn't the question, but do you do you have a denomination?

Do you have anything that you specifically call yourself?

I Just say my five -point now.

I'm millennial pedo -baptist non -cessational covenantal Calvinist

Baptist churches non -denominational.

I've attended a Lutheran one a little bit.

Yeah, it's just I'm all over you know, I don't have any denominational loyalty, okay, so where does your

loyalty lock with Jesus it's not Sure.

Are you sure?

Yeah thousand percent.

Well, I'm about a hundred but yeah, okay.

Can I ask you a question?

No, you just did but go ahead.

What this is this is the question.

Do you censure?

Oh, you better believe I do.

Yeah.

So, you know how serious that is, yeah, okay, can you pull up one verse for me sure

what verse John 8 34.

Okay.

Your loyalty lies with Jesus.

Then you have a word you have to trust that he means what he does.

Uh -huh.

There's no way out of us.

Okay.

Everyone who commits sins a slave of sin.

Yeah everybody who commits in Is a slave of sin.

Yeah, so if you still sin You don't know him yet.

Okay.

Did you hear that sound?

No, that's my computer.

No, no the ripping sound.

What is that of a verse they ripped out of context?

I didn't you didn't hear that.

Actually, actually when he when he says this Johnny 34 when he says it he's speaking to Levitical Pharisees.

He's speaking to the Levitical priests.

So if they're held to that standard, what makes you think you're getting out of it?

You're not so do you have you had any Greek at all?

Greek doesn't matter.

Yes.

It does matter.

Yes, it does.

Hold on.

No, hold on.

Hold on.

You got yet.

Yes, it does matter.

So so you what you're saying?

If somebody explain why they can't explain why let me explain.

They can't be if they don't speak Greek they can't be saved.

Okay.

Now here's the thing.

You're being obstreperous.

No.

Yes, you are.

Could you hold on a second and let me speak holding you to the scripture man?

Okay I'm asking you.

Can you let me speak?

Is that okay?

All right.

Now you have you had any Greek at all?

Just curious.

I'm asking the question Yes, you have yes, can you

parse a me I Don't know what you mean by that.

Okay, so you to parse is one of the very first things you learn in Greek.

Amy present active indicative first person singular.

That's what it means to parse.

Okay.

So now do you know what a participle is in Greek?

But do you know what a participle is in Greek not in Greek?

I know what it is in English.

It's the same thing.

What's a participle in English?

What is it Present participle.

I'm trying to remember somebody did give me the definition of this and I've been through this but that's he just means what He says, okay.

Look do you speak another language by any chance?

No Spanish sort of okay.

You're a thing.

Oh hombre, right if you say that literally it's I.

I have hunger, but we don't do that in English.

We say I have hung.

I'm hungry.

Yeah.

Okay, so we have a way languages don't parse straight over now.

If I were to say to somebody like my wife who speaks French I can say what's the present active indicative of the verb

To eat pronounce that from and she won't give it to me.

Exactly.

Hold on.

Let me finish.

This is important to know what languages are what they mean when we come to this.

It says whoever commits sin.

Whoever commits sin.

Yeah.

Okay, you need to really be patient, okay and you got it means what it says.

It's what it says in the part is a participle it means what it's a yes it right it means what it says.

Now, what does it say?

Says if you sin, you're the servant of sin.

What does it say?

If you sin, you're the servant of sin.

Okay, so does it say that it says commit sin?

It doesn't say if you sin, so you misread it commit.

Okay, and so if it commits in now, hold on.

You're trying to go with what it says and I'm trying to show you that you're reading into the text.

You don't understand what you're doing and you're making what you're making.

No, you don't know you do not know.

No, you don't Know you don't hold on.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Hold on.

If you don't work with me of this, I'm gonna kick you out.

Okay, I don't have much patience with the impatient.

What it says is if you commit you commit sin is in the participle one more time.

Could you tell me what a participle is?

I don't dude.

I will destroy the wisdom.

Okay.

All right, so you don't know what it is and yet you're making a doctrine out of one verse.

Participle means that it's a continuing action.

The participle means continuing action.

My loyalty is to Christ not to your knowledge.

Okay.

You're being a fool.

No, I'm trying to tell you something.

You need to keep quiet for a second.

Keep quiet.

Keep stop.

Stop.

Stop, I'm telling you what it was spoken.

This is the words of Christ who used a participle if you continue on in sin is

is what it's saying.

It's a part.

It's a look.

Look.

Look.

It's a participle a present active participle in Greek.

It means that those who are in the process of continuing to commit it.

That's what's going on there.

And you don't know that because you're doing because preacher you're ignorant.

Nope.

Yes, you are.

You said you took Greek you couldn't parse a me you said you know what a participle was.

You didn't know what that was.

You didn't understand what it is here.

I'm trying to tell you.

You don't know did Paul sin.

No, no Paul never sinned.

Okay.

Do you sin do you sin do you sin used to do you sin now present tense?

Do you sin first John 3 9 do you sin is the question do you say?

Do you sin.

Sin do you sin?

I'm asking the question.

Do you say currently?

No, I can't.

Okay.

So then let me ask you another question.

Sin is compliance with the law of sin is compliance with the law of God, right?

I'm not under the law.

It's compliance with the okay.

You're so ignorant about so many things.

Sin is lawlessness sin is lawlessness.

Keep quiet for a second sin is lawless.

Okay, I'm gonna have to mute you.

Okay, because you won't let me finish.

I'm gonna mute you to teach you.

All right, you're muted.

So everything you say won't go anywhere.

Sin is lawlessness first John 3 4.

So if you don't sin, it means you're not being lawless.

It means if the Bible says don't lie.

That could if you lie, that's a sin.

So if you don't lie, you're abiding by the law.

That's all I'm saying.

Because the law brings the knowledge of sin.

So you have to know that's what sin is.

So you say you don't sin which means you don't break the law which means in the moral law.

You never lie never cheat never anything right good.

That means you're doing it on the same level as Jesus.

Go ahead.

So you are you keeping the law and doing this as on the same level as Jesus?

Is that what it is?

Jesus fulfilled the law.

Okay.

I asked you a question.

Are you keeping that law and doing what's necessary on the same level as Jesus?

Are you gonna let me can I have a minute?

Yeah, just answer the question.

Are you doing it on the same level as Jesus?

Perfect.

Yes.

Okay, so you Are and don't sin but yet you're arrogant in

that you claim equality with the moral standard and righteousness of God himself.

I am his righteousness.

So What you are an example of

what you're an example of is arrogant self -deception.

No weight wallowing in sin who doesn't know.

And who doesn't understand the Greek doesn't understand what's going on doesn't understand that you don't understand what

you're doing and you are dangerous.

Let me ask you a question.

Can you lose your salvation?

Can you lose your salvation?

Absolutely.

Okay.

What do you have to do to keep it?

Give me a list of three things you gotta do to keep your salvation.

Forgive everybody for everything forever forgive everything for everybody.

Okay, six fourteen fifty forgive all.

Okay, number two.

What?

Don't watch.

Don't judge.

Okay.

Okay, and then love what will both of those is to love as he loved us.

Yeah as God loved.

Okay.

So so you keep your salvation by forgiving all not judging and loving as God

did.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Could you do me a favor like this?

I Don't really appreciate it.

I mean, I'm trying to have a real conversation with you.

I would just know you're not you're not trying to have a real conversation because you kept interrupting and you're trying to Demand certain things certain ways so

you're the one who blew it.

You're the one who's saying that you keep your salvation by your good.

You're the one that still sins and serves sin.

Okay, you don't understand what John 834 is teaching is it's a part of simple and it's not

about those who just happen to do it once or twice.

You don't know because you're stinking ignorant you're calling Jesus a liar.

No, I'm not.

You don't understand what he's saying.

You're calling Jesus alive.

No, no, no, no, don't be a fool.

So you are the one who says you keep yourself right with the infinitely Holy God by how you forgive all.

You don't judge and you're doing it right now because you're judging me.

Yes, you are.

You're saying that I'm calling Jesus a liar.

And that's judging me.

You are a hypocrite.

You're a hypocrite.

Hold on a sec muted.

I love being them in power.

And now look folks.

What he's saying is don't judge yet.

He's judging.

He forgives all but he has to do that on the level of Christ and has to love as God loved everybody.

Which is a standard of God himself.

This guy is so arrogant that it's incredible.

You know, what's worse and more sad in my eyes is That he's denying the inspiration of

Scripture.

Wow the the writer.

He's gone.

Doggone it.

I wanted him to come out the verses.

The verses you're quoting to him say in a straightforward manner Not just those who sin

but those who commit Habitual sin as a as a manner of life.

That's what he's talking about.

That's not Christians.

He doesn't want to hear it.

I know but it's a straightforward Phrase in the Greek that is airtight, but he wants to go to the

the wooden English Corruption if you don't want to go to the original, I don't think the English was

inspired at all.

It just says, you know those who commit sin.

Oh, that's a good point.

English inspired.

No, then we have to go to the Greek.

That's exactly.

That's what they were inspired to write it in and it's a very technical language with straightforward meanings.

It's not magical language yet.

You have to float three feet off the ground to understand like guys in the 1800s.

The scholars used to call it corny Greek the Holy Ghost language.

They used to call it now.

They found out it was the language of the street.

That's right.

Paul used it quite salty too.

I mean the language of the street.

Oh, he said some stuff that.

From a lot of churches.

No guys arrogant and self -deceived and and he's demanding and how it has to be this way.

He doesn't want to learn what it actually says.

He is not interested in that because he has an agenda and the Word of God has to submit it to what he says.

It means yeah.

What is sad is when he would will submit one day if he does to the real Word of God and what it's

actually Saying it might enhance his walk with Christ.

It might deepen his faith.

It might bring him closer to God to understand the straightforward meaning of the language and he won't look

like or parade himself around as such a ignorant fool.

That's nothing to be proud of.

He's proud of what he's sticking to and That's sad.

That's one of the saddest things and I hope people that have witnessed what he's doing to himself are praying

for him because that's I.

Don't know This isn't one of this the tell -tale tight of.

A problem that people have when they don't study the ink the Greek there are times when it's necessary to

study the Greek.

Because like for example in Romans 5 18, you can't get that right unless you started the Greek.

Sorry, but that's what it is.

John 3 16.

It's also a Greek necessary verse a lot of people don't get and a lot of times I'll quote 1st John 3 6

and here's something a lot of people don't know about the Greek.

So I'm gonna give you an example of something remember I've had an ever main.

He's got a PhD.

We can talk about this, too.

But I'm gonna tell you something about about in English just so you guys understand this.

In English, you know, I walk and Here I am walking.

Okay, so we have a present tense and a participle.

I walk I am walking.

So in in English, we just have a value of 1 and a value of 10 I'm going to just illustrate something

here.

One is I walk 10 as I walking and you have this range of of intensity of walking things like that

theoretically.

The reason I'm bringing that up is because in English it's I walk or I'm walking.

It's just 1 or 10 so to speak but in Greek The I walk in the present tense is about a 2

or 3.

It has a little bit of an implication of a participial form of 10 of

walking and what it means is that they do this in the English they do it in the present tense and it's

Continuing just in a slight sense of continued action.

That's what's going on there.

But a full hey, you're just absolutely doing it as participial form.

Yeah, I learned this in graduate school Westminster Theological Seminary, but so when people go to first John 3

6 No one who abides in him in him sins it's in that Greek which has that

slight meaning of of Continued action.

That's why some translators say who practices it and What I always like to do with people who say they don't

sin anymore.

Well, really so you're keeping the law on an equal level

of Jesus.

There are ignorant.

Buddy.

Yeah, I don't know if it was you Matt or if it was Dave somebody who had an understanding of

Spanish was talking to a Jehovah's Witness in my house in Southern, California and

Their English was not as good as their Spanish.

So one of you guys took over but whoever it was.

Explained to them something that he explained to me later in an elementary form since I'm not a Spanish speaker

but they were talking about knowing Jesus and He pointed out to me that.

Yeah English hardly even has gender.

So better is to know Saturdays to know.

But do you do you go.

No sir, yeah, do you know Jesus?

Conocimiento.

Knowing yes, I very personal intimate friendly relationship.

So there's to know severe.

To know in your head kono sir, and then to know in a personal right?

Conocimiento.

English is not a very precise.

Right. It's great.

Yeah, it's very precise.

Right, and you can add you've had Greek, right?

Yes in Spanish.

Yeah, so for

example.

Yo coming.

No, that's coming.

I walk right, right.

What's the participle?

The Coming on right.

So I feel like Spanish believers.

They study Greek have a better.

Example of Participants.

Yes, they do right.

So Sinless perfectionism is.

An ignorance.

Arrogant phrases in Greek, right.

And he went to done if you saw but he went to john 834.

Jesus has who commit sins a slave of sin.

I'm just reading what it says.

I go, but the Greeks it's a participle.

It's a participle.

It's an ongoing action of participation.

I don't need man's wisdom.

That's what Jesus said.

He what just doesn't want to know he did there people like that are cult leaders.

They start cults.

You see Manny -santo.

Hey, Manny.

Wait a minute.

Manny Santos.

Are you the same Manny Santos?

I knew ten years ago.

All right, just curious.

Tell me that.

I hope okay, that'd be nice.

But unfortunately the man is dude.

You got to email me.

We got to catch up man.

How you doing?

I'm glad you're connected with him but I was gonna say unfortunately that that man is missing the rich meaning of the

text and He doesn't have to the apparatus is not pure on the internet nowadays for

everybody to know.

He could gain that richer understanding of what's being said.

And and he's missing a blessing in that.

Yeah.

Like to be very honest with you if you ask me that's different

to parse.

Amy, I probably wouldn't be able to tell you present active

indicative like what you just said.

Doesn't that give indicative for you.

I can open up logos or logos for snooze and get it.

Greek scholars.

My degree is not in.

Which my degree is not in.

Yeah tell you so like.

My posture is when I want to go to those who studied

the New Testament.

Help me with Greek.

Oh.

Yeah, I use logos too.

I had four and a half years of Greek, but I had it 30 years ago.

And I'm very rusty, but I remember enough to know the basics and if someone's gonna say they've studied Greek I'm gonna quiz

them.

What's Agathos?

You know, what's a nominative genitive dative accusative?

These are the basics.

Right.

So they don't know.

I don't tell me you know, you studied Greek.

Okay, I just don't buy that.

Right, yeah, don't.

Just don't ask me to show you my dip thong.

Dip thongs.

Yeah, you're a big dip thong.

That's right.

That's what happens to guys who are wearing skinny bathing suits when they go in the water.

Dip thong, that's right.

We had a we had a joke in our Greek class.

So which we said to each other, you know, the Greek have a word for that.

Literally, they have words that take a trunk full of Explaining because their words are

so yeah.

Chiragraphon and the handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness.

Yeah, and those native speakers it was no mystery.

But to us we have to unpack it and when we unpack sometimes it's a trunk full of meaning.

Oh, yeah, very blessed meetings.

So Nelson Nova if you want to find the debate just go here I'll put it in and you can see the links to it.

Calendar, okay.

There it is.

Okay.

You may not I don't think that the debate or

Ever answered my question.

What was your question?

So my question was He had a very emotional

response regarding the fact that We as

21st century Christians must be able to say

Christ died for you.

My question was in response to that statement of

if you look at the book of Acts the Apostles or any

Believers never said whether in personal

conversation or preaching to the masses Christ died for

you.

What do you say to that?

That's a good point.

I want to go through and check it and verify because it's just a good point.

A Lot of stuff that people believe today is just not in the Bible, you know, it has to be a

legitimate offer.

What does that mean a legitimate offer?

Well, not the way you say it.

Wait a minute.

You're saying legitimate offer has to be defined by what you say.

It means it can't be what I mean, right.

And they do this people don't they don't realize that they're doing.

It's a good point Ed.

I'm surprised you came up with that.

Right.

So my PhD in church history.

Means something right?

That's right.

You have a PhD in church history.

We should talk because there's some church history stuff particularly church fathers.

I want to get into.

I'm in.

All right, you're a good guy.

I've known you how long we've known each other.

Since at least 2008 maybe before that.

Okay, so.

20s I still remember when I came up to you.

We've met the first time at Manti.

I think was close to the first time and you were listening.

I walked up right.

Walked right behind you and got down and you.

Remember that you look you were surprised.

Oh.

I was not only surprised.

Don't don't downplay what happened.

You scared the crap out of me.

Good.

Yep, and you had less gray hair back then my friend.

That is so true.

And I gave you a big hug right.

Yeah you did that's right.

It was nice seeing you man it was yeah, that's right.

Hey, let me address something.

We'll get is want to talk.

I was discord has a server P and R politics religion and I've not gone

on there for about a week and a half because of something that happened there I'm only saying this because this guy

brought it up.

I go in there normally and I talk and people ask me questions and

I still have a very bad reaction even thinking about going back in there and What happened was

I was in there a bunch of unbelievers are there and I preached the gospel.

I preached that gospel message and Lo and behold Believers

who claimed to be Christians attacked me for being a Calvinist and I shouldn't preach it.

Why should I preach the gospel you're a Calvinist and they attack and it became a dogpile? against me

In that room when I told people to shut up I can't deal with everybody only one at a time and they and this one

guy's Nephilim free moron Nephilim free Kept interrupting

me constantly and I wasn't allowed to speak and teach and they were it's a

full -on Dogpile attack right after I gave the gospel.

You'd think it will go.

Hey, man, praise God.

You gave the gospel.

No, they do attack me on my views on reformed theology.

It left such a very bad taste in my mouth that I have not been back.

Yes, here's the gospel message Jesus Christ died on the cross he's God and flesh this is it.

You know, I gave that gospel and and and and then after that I was attacked.

It was attacked.

And so I have not been back and I've hardly been on discord.

In fact, I don't think I've been on and talked to anybody.

I don't know if I have I Don't know if I'm gonna go back.

Randall you were there talk to me.

Tell me what you heard Randall.

I don't know about this.

Okay I'm serious.

It's upset me so much that these people that they it was more important if they

attack Calvinism and Misrepresented and not let me say no, that's not what we teach us.

That is it?

Then even get the gospel out what is wrong with them?

What is wrong with them?

And I mean wrong.

It's just oh It's just it I haven't been back.

I mean, it's just horrible.

Go ahead truth defenders.

Hey Matt, how are you?

Okay, good.

Hey during the debate you mentioned that you hadn't really read Calvin or.

Now that's gonna take a lot of people by surprise.

Can you explain how then you arrive at your reform doctrines in Calvinism

without her Martin Luther?

Because it's just possible read scriptures.

Bottom line, right.

It's what it comes down to eternal security I believe before I went to college because Jesus says my chief here my voice

and I give eternal life to them and they shall Never perish and I went okay.

Eternal security.

They'll never perish.

That's what he said.

And I knew I wasn't good enough to be a Christian.

I know and I had an experience of all things and you guys probably heard of that.

But it was God's movement not mine and he chose me.

He saved me and and I just know There's nothing good in me.

And then God granted that I believe it was by his work.

I don't have any problem with God electing and choosing.

He knows everything.

He doesn't look into the future to see who's gonna pick him and then he elects them.

That's favoritism.

That doesn't work.

Limited atonement was the one I had a problem with total depravity and made perfect sense when I read the scriptures, you know

that.

And I mentioned that it seems lately that most non Calvinist

Keep pointing to the Reformation to Martin Luther and John Calvin the way the Muslims keep

pointing to the Council of Nicaea as if Everything that we believe started there.

You know, they oh it's your your Doctrine started in the 15th century in the

1500s and that's all they know.

They've never said no.

No, I say no.

It didn't I said I go back to Matthew Mark Luke John Acts Romans Corinthians.

That's where we have to go.

Amen, brother.

So I agree with brother man and that we should go back to

scripture.

But I would also argue as somebody that has

studied a little bit of church history in that the doctrines

of grace predate Calvin.

So if you look at the Epistle of Clement

to the to the Romans.

Yep about the book.

About the doctrine, excuse me the doctrine of election.

It's very very clear.

Hey, buddy, you need to give me those quotes so I can document them put them in.

It also talks about conditional immortality.

Say that again.

Now he just was a hit -and -miss conditional immortality.

Yeah origin didn't he was a heretic?

So, you know we could talk about a conditional immortality and stuff like that, but no I meant Clement.

I mean about the stock father Clement you can argue against it.

I suppose but it's.

Here's my church father.

Give it up your church father.

You just go with what scripture said, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, okay.

Well somebody else was gonna jump in is I think or yeah.

Yeah, I was kind of having trouble earlier.

All right.

Hello there.

Yeah, my name is um, I used to be a Calvinist, you know, I used to watch you.

Okay, James.

James white, you know.

Mm -hmm.

What's that guy's name?

I don't know but you get the point.

Yeah.

Well, I'm Perry's friend the guy that just left and I just kind of wanted to pick up where

he left off.

You know, I think you kind of got you kind of got the wrong idea.

I'm.

You're breaking up.

It's hard to follow you.

Yeah, we're budding a little bit.

All right.

All right, so I'm I'm Perry's friend the guy that uh, just

let your friend Perry the guy that just left like 20 minutes ago.

Okay.

All right, is that better.

Kind of yeah, but anyway, so what's your question?

All right, so let me ask you um.

First on a three nine.

Since since you speak Greek, I mean does that mean exactly what it says?

See, that's a question.

You see does it mean exactly what it says?

Yes in the English or in the Greek just to you.

To you, okay, hold on you got to be careful when you say something like does it mean what it says, okay.

Yeah, you got to be careful.

You got to be careful when you say that the reason is is because.

When people ask me that kind of question what they're often saying is does it mean what it says as I

understand it Matt?

Do you agree with it?

Does it mean what it says?

They're often saying that what they think it means.

That it's a hidden agenda.

Now if I say no, I don't agree with what it says.

Well, what kind of a question is that the question is?

What is it saying and there are times when it we need to go to the Greek.

Do you understand that?

You know, for example when when Jesus said, you know to Peter you do you love me.

Do you agape me?

You love me.

Do you agape me?

Do you love me?

Phileo me, you know about that, right?

Do you know that in John 21, huh?

But I'm just telling you that Sometimes you have to understand what the Greek is saying to get a better understanding of certain things

and what's going on in first John 139 the one who has no one who's born of God as the NASB says

practices sin.

And why do you think would see what they would do that say practices?

Because oh, why why is this practices?

Yeah, because it's it's a.

Practicing is the same as doing.

That means you're doing your practice.

And if you practice, let me ask you.

Let me ask you a question.

Hold on.

So, let's just say Hold on hold on.

I'm kicking you out.

No.

Okay, hold on.

So let me ask you a question.

Let's say that we have a guy and he's married the whole bit and He you

know, he's at a mall and he sees an attractive woman.

He just looks at her maybe a second or two longer than he should have.

All right.

Now let's just say he's not supposed to do that.

Is that a sin?

It depends if he thinks that's wrong.

Yes.

Okay, so let's just say it's a sin.

Let's say he thought something he shouldn't have thought.

Let's say it was a sin and he goes.

What were you thinking?

Okay, that's bad.

Now.

Is he practicing sin?

Yes, if he thinks if he thinks that he did he just stopped.

Then yes, he just stopped.

I said is he practicing sin.

Wait a minute.

I Didn't notice everybody notice this.

I asked specific questions.

I get different answers.

I didn't ask that.

I said is he practicing sin if he does this for a few seconds and stops.

Is he now practicing sin?

Maybe not for the moment.

Okay, so the answer is no now.

Okay, so the one who practices sin now, wait a minute.

If he's practicing let's say that he goes back to the mall the next day and sees her again.

And he let's say lusts for two seconds.

He stops it.

Now.

Is he practicing sin again?

No, but he committed it, right?

Okay.

Yeah, but is he practicing Sin, or did he fall twice and during a 24 -hour

period was he practicing that sin?

No, I would say yeah.

I would say there was moments where he wasn't practicing it, but in between that 24 -hour period he committed

it, right?

No, not between at the beginning at the end of the 24 -hour period.

Let's just say exactly so I'm trying to get you to think because these people

don't think and they just react.

What does it mean to practice.

What does it mean to practice a sin now?

That means to continue in sin.

No, it doesn't say to continue in sin.

What does it mean to practice sin?

What does that mean to practice it to.

Let's go with what you say to continually be involved in it.

Okay, which is what John 8 34 is saying when Jesus says he who commits sins in the participial form,

which is ING.

It means eating walking.

Okay, he who is committing the sins is a slave of sin.

That's what he's saying.

So if Somebody was to practice a sin, you can agree that he broke the law, right?

Because 1 John 3 4 says sin is a transgression of the law, right?

Any sin temporal, five seconds long, you know an hour long is sin.

Yeah, so now so now.

Romans 4 15 says where there is no law there is no sin.

So so sin is it.

It's a spiritual law that Jesus did away with.

By fulfilling the law.

Okay, do you sin?

Boy, I can't.

Okay, I'm asking have you looked at you get unrighteously angry?

Yeah, I asked you I asked you I didn't say do people get angry I said.

Do you get unrighteously angry at all.

By unrighteously, what do you mean by unrighteously?

I mean that it's not the right way to do.

You do something wrong and you're angry.

You're angry of somebody for a wrong.

I would say no because the Bible says that he knows to do good, but but does it not to him it is

sin.

Okay, I can't so you so you don't sin anymore, right?

I can't because.

Okay, the answer is you don't sin anymore, right?

I.

Can't my actions are my actions are not sin as they were before.

So I because you were if you were arrogant would that be a sin?

Okay, so is your heart pure and

perfect it is Jesus.

Time one at a time this gang dog said be perfect even as your father in heaven.

Matthew 548 has to do with loving everybody equally doesn't mean about the thing in Georgia.

So you're telling me that it's a sin to be perfect.

Out of context, so I think that might be sinful to misuse it misuse words of Jesus himself

in order to gain a Position that is wrong.

So I think you might have committed a sin.

So, all right.

Here's what you're telling me is that you are Sinless and that you keep that you're

as sinless as Jesus was sinless on earth, right?

Yes, can I give you two verses just to expand on that a little bit?

No.

No, I got these verses.

I know these verses people go through.

I'm just asking.

I'm just saying you keep the law Just like Jesus did perfectly.

It's fulfilled doesn't mean it's gone.

Doesn't mean what's gone.

Doesn't mean the law is gone if it's fulfilled in Christ.

Don't make a mistake of thinking the law is no longer there.

Jesus fulfilled it because fulfillment It has to do with his

prophetic work that he did.

Now do you keep so your heart is as pure and as perfect as Jesus art.

Yes, because in first John is as.

That okay to be in the light even as he is in the light.

Okay.

So.

You misapplied it, mr. Arrogant.

You're prideful and you're arrogant and.

So you keep the law as as well as Jesus and your heart is as good as Jesus.

Wow.

So your heart is as good as Jesus in his purity, right?

I

Want everybody here.

You think that you and your heart as are just as pure and righteous as Jesus.

Right.

I'll tell you why.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Now give me one verse at a time.

One verse.

Let's see if you can back that up.

Mr. Arrogant.

Hebrews.

Hebrews 1014 says by one offering which is Jesus He has perfected them that are

sanctified so it's just by faith.

It's not it's not by you doing this or not doing that.

What is perfected me don't anymore.

Have no equity.

I cannot break the law.

It says no.

No, you're reading in the text.

Mr I see by one offerings perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Okay perfected.

What does it mean?

Perfect means no longer sin.

Can you show me that in Scripture.

Can you show that it means you can't sin.

Romans 6 6 whosoever is dead is freed from sin.

Okay.

Better verses that is Romans 6 2 and Romans 7 4 look you went to Hebrews 10 16 or 10 14.

And I quiz you on Romans 10 14 and you jump to Romans 6 6.

Let me pull it up.

No, no, no.

You went to Hebrews 10 14.

By one offering is perfected all time.

Now.

I want you to pay attention.

You said the word perfected means they don't sin anymore.

Yes.

No, no, no, no.

That's what can you show me that.

That's what it means that it means you don't sin anymore.

All right.

Yes, I can.

So Jesus said be perfect even even as your father in heaven is perfect.

What verse is that?

That's in.

Matthew 5 I've got the verse but it's a Matthew 5 48.

He was a context is.

I mean, I mean, it's pretty obvious.

I mean, do you know the context is I.

Would have to read it, but okay, so you don't know what the context is, but it's starting in verse 43.

It's no it's first.

43 you let the rains God listen to rain shine on the Fall in the good in the bad the Sun on the good in the bad

and that you are to love.

Just as if as God the Father loves equal everybody equally therefore be perfect your father in heaven is perfect.

You just ripped it out of context.

You don't even know what it means now.

So, can you show me where it says that the word perfected here means

you don't sin anymore.

Might not have the word perfected in the verse, but yeah, I mean Romans 6 7 he who is

dead is freed from sin.

Okay, so I asked about.

I asked about the word.

I asked about the word.

The word.

Okay, the word occurs 25 times to let oh, okay.

Chris 25 times.

Just when genus had finished his words, that's the word to let oh.

After they were returning after spending the full number of days completing that number of days.

Go tell blah blah blah.

Is it the third day?

I reach my goal.

That's the word again.

Can you pull up Hebrews?

1223.

Hey, you're not listening.

You don't want to listen.

You don't care about truth.

I Talk to people like you all the time.

They have an agenda.

They don't care about.

Hey quick do me a favor.

I'm just curious.

Can you look under your feet?

I'm gonna see what's under your feet.

Is there anything there you see?

And your feet and you're wearing shoes, right?

Is there anything under your feet?

The floor.

What do you I mean?

Oh, I was looking for to see if the Bible was under your feet.

So here's the thing.

That you don't listen you don't want to learn.

You don't want to learn in your own way.

I used to be a Calvinist sir until I actually started reading.

I don't care.

The thing is you don't want to learn you don't care about what the Bible actually says.

When I ask you to prove that what you said a verse means you can't do it.

You really mean is that?

Okay, Hebrews 12 23, is that what you went to.

Right.

Yeah, okay.

To the General Assembly the church of the firstborn Who are enrolled in heaven and to God the judge of all and to the spirits of the

righteous made perfect.

Okay, so the spirit of the righteous made perfect.

What does it mean to be made perfect?

To be free from sin and be righteous clean.

Holy like Christ.

Can you show me that from scripture from the context?

Well, I didn't come that prepared.

But if you like I can show you Tomorrow.

You quote scriptures that you don't know the context of.

I.

Mean, sir, I can come over prepared.

I don't memorize the whole Bible just like that.

You don't memorize it.

You're the one who quoted it.

If you go to me and say well, you know, I quote met Romans 5 18.

I can tell you the context.

1st Corinthians 15 22 we can talk about that and the context there.

I don't know the context of everything.

But I'll tell you if you're the one saying that the word perfect here means that it's without without sin.

Why is it when I show you other verses that that doesn't mean that?

That you ignore it.

Why do you ignore what's called the semantic domain.

A Semantic domain means a word has a range of meaning.

You knew what the word agape means, right?

I mean the Grace something like that, right?

No, that's Karis.

It's not grace agape.

You're what agape means love.

Oh.

What do you call it.

Undeserving love or something like that, right?

So so it means undeserved kindness.

Some call it the divine love, right?

Right.

Okay.

Because it says I'm gonna get the show it's been a while so I got it this verse.

Because the Pharisees loved their high seats and that's Luke 11 43.

I'm just showing you that's word agape.

So wait a minute.

Agape is God.

So love the world here.

You love your hot your chief seats.

He a word has a range of meaning in different contexts.

You don't want to take a meaning from one context and transfer it over to another.

That's called illegitimate totality transfer.

You don't want to do that.

You can't do that.

You should not do that.

Okay.

So you're saying that I'm sitting on some high seat, how is that sir?

I'm no.

What I'm saying is you don't know what you're doing when it comes to exegesis.

You don't know how to interpret scripture.

This is why you're in such grave error.

Can I read you a scripture?

That fine.

Try it again.

All right, first Corinthians 1556.

It says the sting of death is sin.

The strength of sin is the law.

So since I am no longer under the law, there is no more strength of sin.

It's simple.

It's very simple.

John 8 34.

Hold on one at a time one at a time.

Yeah.

Okay, who's this thing of death is sin.

The power of sin is the law.

You know what it means that the power of sin Is the law?

Yes, I do.

What does it mean?

It means it means that that the law makes sin abound.

That's why Paul said When you try to keep the commandment.

Sin revived in it and it killed.

I agree.

No problem there.

All right now you want to go to John 8 34 you said Yeah.

Now everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.

Do you know that that's in the participle?

Do you know what a participle is when it says commit?

Yeah, I think I think you were Explaining it to him, right?

It means I NG.

It's like saying everyone who is in the state and condition of committing sin.

That's what's going on.

Now right this preacher guy it is arrogance.

Says I don't need to look at the Greek to see what Jesus himself said.

I need to look at what the English says.

That's arrogant foolishness.

Now, all right, the participle is an ongoing action.

I am eating is a continuing action.

That's a participle.

I eat it means present tense.

How ongoing is it?

It means I eat.

It means I could be eating.

You know 15 minutes ago in 20 minutes, you know, I I eat something.

There's an ambiguity there, but what he's Jesus is saying is in the participial form.

He's actually saying it's an ongoing action.

Now everyone who is in a habit of ongoing sin is a slave of sin, right?

Right according to you.

Yes.

Can I ask you a question, sir?

Well, I'm gonna ask you one more if someone who commits commit sin and just let's say someone's a slave of sin for an

hour.

Let's just say he has a problem whatever it is and he's committing a sin for about an hour.

Maybe it's pornography, you know, who knows it could be anything.

He's he's lusting.

He's he's angry about something.

He shouldn't be angry.

It doesn't matter during that period of time.

Is he a non -christian?

During and after.

So during he's not a Christian and then when does he get his salvation back?

He I mean Christians cannot sin.

So he never had it.

Okay.

Okay, you know.

Ask you a question.

Yeah, go ahead.

It's just what makes.

What makes you Worthy of eternal life.

What makes me more worthy of having eternal life.

Then let's say a Pentecostal or a Catholic.

No, nothing.

Okay, so do they get eternal life to a Catholic?

Let's say if they follow official Roman Catholic theology.

No, they don't.

Why not?

Because official Roman Catholic theology and I denies justification by faith in paragraph 2068 of the

Catechism of the Catholic Church that says they obtain salvation through faith baptism and the observance of the Commandments.

Paragraph 2036 in paragraph 2070 talks about the natural law the expression of the natural laws of ten commandments.

Keeping them.

And it's necessary to do that in order to be saved.

So they violate Galatians 5 1 through 5 as well as Romans 4 1 through

5 so they violate this.

So anyone who believes that along with the idolatry of Mariola tree, they cannot be truly saved.

They're not going to heaven.

Okay, so that's what I'm telling you.

Now.

I'm telling you the same thing that if somebody Still sins that means

that they don't believe on.

Justification by faith alone.

I said and I believe in justification by faith alone.

But you've seen because you said I don't rest alone.

Yeah, I still I'm not perfect.

I don't say that my heart is as perfect as Jesus.

Yeah, when there is no law and yeah, that's correct there is no law there is no sin

did Jesus remove the law.

He fulfilled it for you.

Did he remove the law?

He fulfilled it.

No, he did.

I know that he fulfilled it Matthew 5 17.

Did he remove the law?

No, I didn't.

Then is the law still here.

Yes, it is.

Is it still wrong to lie not for me.

It's okay for you to lie.

Yes, yes, because because it's not in clean for me.

I'm already justified you can lie.

Oh, so you're probably lying to me right now.

Oh, I can't trust you.

Man, so you say lines, okay.

Mr. Antinomian, okay, let's just move on.

Let's just go to Jamie or MJ.

You guys can talk.

Jungle jargon.

Go ahead.

Yeah, so my question is To the person that was just

talking to Matt.

I'm not sure what your name is.

He's gone.

Is I'm not gonna let him back on this.

It's ridiculous.

These guys contradict themselves so much.

They're so arrogant.

They're so foolish in what they say you catch them in stuff.

And then they they don't answer direct questions.

They answer something else.

They're not interested in learning and being corrected.

Their arrogance is incredible.

They say they don't sin.

They keep the law and their attitude of loving God love your neighbor on the level of Jesus himself.

So they don't sin anymore.

And then this guy said yeah, it's okay for him to lie because.

We're just not if I may say their doctrine.

Their teaching of sin is too low

their doctrine of sin is too small.

They don't understand.

I'm not saying I've saved but these are the kinds of things that you wonder if you're really saved.

And so, you know, it's just really a problem.

So now the next question would have been I'm not going to get into it.

Good.

But oh so lying is not a sin anymore.

So I guess adultery is not a sin anymore, you know, it's just well.

Shut up and sit down and stop talking what need to do.

Because they're hindering the body of Christ and they're sowing seeds of discord.

There's causing problems.

All right, come on somebody else talk.

Jordan.

Do.

Sinless perfectionist.

Worship God.

The way he ought to be.

That's what I said.

Love God and love your neighbor as yourself on that level of Jesus and they said yes I do it the

same level as Jesus did.

What do you do with a super prideful person like that?

I.

Thought he was saying he just fakes it like like he's just like saying like God Jesus did away with all of that.

So I can't say you only sin if you if you acknowledge that there is a law that's not done away with.

Isn't that what he was saying?

I could it's you know, these guys I I've dealt with him before.

In fact at first I had a really interesting debate with one of the representatives up in Montana a few years ago.

And I remember it would weren't allowed to have a cross -examination.

Which I didn't know until I was there.

But at any rate Jesse Morrell.

Yeah, and I remember I still remember being Shocked by what I was hearing

in the in the people the debate.

I was in still if they're doing the debate.

I'm going.

You guys don't believe you sin.

I think everybody goes.

No.

Well, well Matt there's the gospel they'd even know.

Matt and your article on the sinless perfection you put in an interesting note.

When you said and I posted it notice that John the Apostle includes himself.

Yeah, let us.

Yeah, we.

Here's here's the two verses he posts which includes himself.

Yes sinner.

So are these guys more holy than him as you can call him?

Chief of sinners, but doesn't it seem that there's two there's two very very like different versions here.

There's a sinless perfection that says God like whether it be God or yourself or whatever.

But you literally stop sinning and then there's the sinless perfection.

Like I thought this guy was which is like look there is no sin if unless you acknowledge it, right?

So they're not literally holy.

He was actually holy.

But he said you can you said lying is not a sin for him, right?

And that's the see that's the thing.

It's funny because they're both lying, right?

Yeah, one actually thinks they're being righteous in the law.

The other one thinks they're pretending it away.

The water cause that kind of lying.

Theocratic tact.

Yeah.

Don't need or deserve the truth like me.

They've used it with me.

So I wonder if Romans 1 applies whether God gives them over to the prairie their heart in their mind.

So they believe the lie.

Say that happens, you know.

Romans 1.

Absolutely applies.

Yeah, I would be.

I would never be able to tell you where the line is drawn for any individual.

But it does happen.

Okay, it does happen.

Yeah, sadly.

All right.

I got to go in a few minutes.

I'm getting a headache.

Has been on a long time.

I've gone for One two, three four and a half hours.

Anyway, my voice does give me a headache.

No, no, hey man, I love you.

But here everybody got to know about about Ed here because why did I say about your voice the first time we talked?

Then I was drunk.

That's right.

Where you from?

All right, don't have to say I guess.

Texas.

Texas.

Yeah, so he has cerebral palsy.

Yeah, but I grew up near Arkansas.

Well that explains everything.

Right on.

There looks like I got my terminal degree in

Missouri, but I live in Utah.

Zero yeah.

Missouri Seattle.

How nice.

That's right you aren't your jungle.

Hey before I get going.

Shut this down.

What do you guys think of the debate if you saw it, whatever.

Just give some feedback.

That's what's supposed to do.

He was nice enough, but he needs to grow and study a little deeper.

Around 30 ish 32 or 3 ish 4 ish 5 ish around that range.

So he's my age.

So I'm 31.

But I've been in higher education for 13 years straight

but You know, even though you don't have the technical

education That I do I respect you and I submit.

No, you shouldn't submit.

But yeah, well, we respect each other, you know, we both love the Lord.

I want to serve him and and that's where yeah, that's right.

Love some gorgeous.

Well There was nothing that I heard that would make me

think oh.

He denies the essentials of the faith.

Oh Yeah.

Matt did you did you understand my question in the debate?

Question.

Did you have a question?

You forgot about okay.

What was your question?

So so you're.

Oh, you're okay with there being sin in God's creation without a without

a covering.

I.

Don't understand that what.

I didn't understand the question.

You're okay with there being sin in God's creation without a covering without a provision.

Okay, what do you mean?

Okay.

Okay.

Intellectually that it exists.

Okay with it as in it's okay to have sin.

I don't mind.

It's okay in that sense and then without covering in God's creation.

I don't mean by God's covering.

That's not very Explicit.

And what do you mean by God's creation?

Do you mean that the universe.

Do you mean just in the hearts of people?

So you see the question is just I.

Can't I think I think you're trying to avoid it.

But anyway, okay.

Look I'm gonna tell you something.

I am not trying to avoid.

I'm telling you you didn't form the question.

Well enough.

I was trying to be polite and tell you this and then I come back.

You come back and say oh you're trying to avoid.

No, I'm not trying to avoid.

So goodbye.

He really doesn't understand the question.

Lee.

What is with people if I don't.

If I have a trouble if they're not well -formed.

I'm the one who automatically is trying to hide and avoid.

Tired of Calvinist, you know.

It's just you know, I'm tired of stupidity.

Sorry, but it is.

What.

Are you there.

Yes, I'm here.

So I deal with students all the time That asked me

questions That they assume that I know

the key words Right behind their questions.

That's right, right.

So jungles 50 years old classes

I Have to help them clarify What they know in their questions.

That is true.

Yeah, so.

With that saying I know when you've been online for four hours

You can get very impatient.

I.

Get tired, you know, it's hard intellectually, but when you do an after -show I just kind of thought about this just a few

minutes ago.

Do an after -show.

We're talking about the debate not something else people want to come in.

And then they get insulting and then they you know, oh you're just trying to avoid that just

Stop, I tell people I don't understand your question.

Oh, you're just you're lying.

Go away, you know.

It's just we have the worst manners the worst accusations.

I just get tired of it and I do.

Sometimes it's hard to judge.

Type.

What's that?

Some people hate you.

Oh, you better believe they hate me.

Right, they wouldn't say that in so many words.

Oh.

People hate me.

You got that right?

You've almost killed me for their hatred.

Yeah, it's well.

Others.

Just lack the intellectual acumen and word

variety.

To speak in terms of definitions I.

Did.

Yeah, I didn't want.

Yeah, you're right I was trying to say a different way.

But yeah.

It lacked the training the understanding and the logical acumen to be able to put together this issue properly.

You're just arrogant man.

Yeah, Matt.

It seems to me that this is a problem in the younger creationist community, which I am very much a part of.

There's conspiratorial thinking and so like if they if they think someone's suspect because they're a Calvinist or whatever.

They don't realize that their questions as they understand them.

The words they're using aren't necessarily so universal as they thought as they may think because there may be.

You know only around a certain group or whatever that happens, you know, I think that's what was going on there.

I couldn't make I thought usually I can interpret stuff like that.

But I don't know what he was asking you or what he had a problem with there.

I know jungle he's not a bad guy or anything, but I just wanted to mention real quick on that I

I asked that click that last question or it was look like it was the last about or day.

I actually agree with you as I'm not I'm an I'm a libertarian free will advocate but I

appreciated your answer about the ordination and I I do accept that God ordains all things because he

Creation and he know and he and he knows beforehand if you don't affirm that it seems to me.

Then you are an open theist period.

Yeah, and yeah, all this is caught is Causing me to rethink

what I do online.

I'm getting to the point where I'm tired of talking to people who just don't want to listen.

I'm not saying I get all the answers, but they just don't want to listen.

They don't care like these perfection wackos.

You know you tell them something they ignore it.

You know, at least like when we were talking like like the debate guy tonight.

He was very polite and he goes hey you got to give me something to think about.

I gotta look at this, you know.

Okay, it's fair.

And if you don't know something you say it and you go on but these guys know I'm not listening.

What does it say?

Don't you believe what it says Matt?

You know, it's like they're forceful and demanding and it's like but you can't do that.

It's not what it says.

Degree.

I don't care about the Greek.

These people are foolish.

It's you think it might be because because of so it's so rampant that people don't have any respect for the law.

It seems to me.

This is just like this is this extreme version of that.

It seems they don't have respect for.

People of God anymore, right?

Well, I'm not claiming to be some great person of God, but you know like my opponent tonight.

He's a pastor before we started the debate.

I prayed for all three of us.

I prayed for him.

I prayed for him in the debate to represent God accurately and truthfully and he had got injured and

he's okay Today in an accident on job and I prayed for his healing.

I prayed for that, you know.

Because that's what we need to do.

The gospel is more important than these particulars.

That's it Charlie.

I don't even know.

I know that he's you know, he believes the essentials and that's that's what matters.

So man if I'm gonna say.

Going here.

Yeah.

Yeah, so the person that spoke just before you.

Yeah because people Know who you are.

Slick of calm dot org.

They can be a little apprehensive and nervous

To speaking to you and therefore They speak very fast

And they do not think about what they're saying.

There's a there's a lot of arrogance out there.

Right and and and ignorance and arrogance to where is this is tremendous and they don't

care about being corrected at all so Ver de

blue.

Hey, I would say you say it's not biblical in any way, huh?

I would say go listen to the debate or Go to Colossians 2 14 and

look what it says.

He canceled a sin debt at the cross.

If it's canceled, can you go to hell for a debt that's canceled?

No.

But who he canceled for everybody then everybody has to go to heaven, but that's not the case.

So you only cancel it for a limited group.

Simple logic deal with Scripture, you know, this is kind of stuff without for that debate go check.

Don't say it's not biblical in any way because you don't know always this is a good example of someone that's just not logical.

It's not biblical in any way.

Wait a minute, you don't know the whole scriptures.

You don't know everything that is said.

You can't say in any way.

It's an arrogant thing to say.

Yeah, I know the Bible.

I know it's so well Hebrew and Greek and Aramaic and I'm a studying it.

I know there's nothing in any way really because first John or first Emma 314 says

that.

It says that God says he will not at the iniquities of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering

forever.

I got.

If he does go back in and review the thing and if he reads the articles I posted he's gonna

virtually have a semesters worth of study on the topic under his belt

and then he can then he can give an informed opinion, but You guys you guys hit on

on the topic.

Well, and I hope I posted some good articles.

With the attendant scriptures, that's what's important.

With the attendant scriptures and I hope that's helpful to some people.

If he does go back and look at it, right?

Because you can pause the thing and take down the link and go look at it in your own time and Come back and

correct you if you need it.

That's right.

Jesus Christ affects salvificly when Jezebel.

What I Don't know of Jesus

Christ affects salvificly.

Queen Jezebel she was something Jezebel when Jezebel.

It's not a complete sentence.

Queen Jezebel Queen.

Okay.

Well, she say the same way as we are by the atonement of Christ.

Correct.

Salvificly, how does it affect her?

She looks forward to the atonement.

We look back to the atonement.

She justified by faith.

The atonement is just as we are.

But she's already dead when the atonement happens, right?

Went to a holding place most probably and waited and then Ephesians 4 it goes into effect and some other stuff.

You know, was she under the wrath of God?

But that gets the more.

No.

She wasn't because she died in hope because Abraham was justified by faith Romans 4 3 so

he wasn't and he'd had less knowledge than she did.

Probably see I believe that she was like Lazarus.

Not Lazarus the rich man under the wrath of God.

Well, I don't I don't buy that.

Because she was just wait Jezebel.

Wait a minute.

You mean okay.

Okay.

Now I'm tired.

Okay Jezebel the one who is evil.

Correct.

Yeah, okay, and she is living.

Okay.

Sorry so she was not saved and The atonement didn't

cover her sins.

Okay, right.

Yeah I'm getting overloaded.

It's been too much for too long and I want to get going and now more is coming in.

And people are asking me stuff and and I just need to go.

It's been a long day.

All right for me.

So just check the messages.

I left you.

I tried to leave it earlier.

I wanted to invite you to it.

To a panel, but just I'll try to contact you.

I guess.

Yeah in a couple days to just just discuss the nature of Christ's death.

Maybe or maybe not.

We'll see.

So bro, Wilson as well, oh just say something really fast give you one minute.

Okay, buddy.

Could I know you just came in?

Otherwise, thank you for Letting me in but for now, I just listen to what you're

talking about, sir.

But thanks anyway, okay.

All right, that's cool.

Yeah.

All right in the Philippines.

I can tell yeah.

I've been to the Philippines a certain certain area and.

Same here Matt.

Oh.

You did.

Okay, cool.

All right guys.

Look I'm basically done.

So I'm gonna shut it out, okay guys.

Amen god bless buddy.

We'll see ya.

Thank you.