January 12, 2026 Show with Jill Kilker on “Home Schooling: A Guide for Christian Parents”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 12th day of January 2026, and I'm thrilled to have back on the program

Jill Kilker, who is director of Children and Youth Ministries at Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania, pastored by a very dear friend of mine,

George Jensen. Jill is the head of school for Pharos Academy, an expert on homeschool law in the

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and she's going to be addressing today, Homeschooling, a

Guide for Christian Parents, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jill Kilker.

Thank you, Chris. It's an honor to be here. Well, why don't you explain, especially for the sake of our listeners who were unable to hear your first interview, why don't you explain to them what

Pharos Academy is, which I know is housed at the Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania.

Yes. Pharos Academy is a

Christian micro school, classical homeschool model, and we will be launching in the fall of this year to provide support to parents who are homeschooling, to provide a hybrid where the students will be with us two days a week and receive their instruction, the instruction and given assignments for the days that they're at home, and we are looking to provide not only nurturing for students, but for families to support them in their homeschool journey.

And if anybody wants more details on the

Pharos Academy, go to the website of Enola First Church of God, which is enolacog .com.

That's E -N as in Nancy, O -L -A -C -O -G .com.

Then click on Ministries, and you will see the specific item to click for Pharos Academy.

So, God willing, we'll repeat that later on in the program. And by the way, if any of you want to hear later on, after this live program is over, of course, if you want to hear the first interview

I did with Jill, along with her pastor, George Jensen, on December 22nd,

Options for Churches and Christian Parents to Educate Our Children, just go to ironsharpensionradio .com

and type in the search engine Kilker, K -I -L -K -E -R, and that episode of the program will come up.

Well, this is an area that is growing in the lives of Christians.

In fact, it's not even isolated to Christians. I think parents of all persuasions began to explore and even participate in homeschooling during the

COVID crisis, especially since there were mandates that shut down schools, and temporarily, anyway.

But it still hasn't universally caught on with all

Christian households, and I'd like to explore with you reasons that might motivate parents,

Christian parents, to take the deep dive into homeschooling their children.

First of all, perhaps you could explain to our listeners who they may have two working parents, and that's an unfortunate reality that in the 21st century, which actually began in the 20th century, many married couples had both parents in the workplace, and they actually relied upon sending their children either to a public school, which should be better named, or more appropriately named, government schools, or if they were blessed financially, they could send their children to a private school, and that is a wonderful blessing, especially if they are near a solid, biblically faithful church that happens to operate a

Christian school. But what do you tell parents when they are in that situation where they just say, it's impossible for us?

Well, I think a lot of times when parents say that it's impossible for them,

I think sometimes it's really not. They just don't have the resources available to them and don't have the confidence in their own abilities.

Homeschooling is very much a jury of a lead learner, the parent, and the learner, the child, and oftentimes the children just need to be directed, and the parents can learn right along with their children.

They don't have to go into the journey fully equipped. They just need to be a great encourager and cheerleader and a model for lifelong learning.

And what about parents who actually don't think that they're academically adequate to take on such a task to educate their own children in their house?

So, I'm a great example of that, Chris. I taught in public school for a decade.

I worked in a private school for quite a while as well and then took this position at my church.

But I started homeschooling my children after having taught and had a master's degree in education but didn't feel equipped to educate my own children.

Now, legally speaking, all you need in the state of Pennsylvania is a high school diploma.

Every state has slightly different homeschool laws, but in Pennsylvania, that's all that is required.

I just was confident in a classroom with other people's children but doubted my own ability to educate my children until I, you know, jumped in and took it day by day and realized that I could actually even redeem the gaps in my own education as I educated my own children.

And what are the circumstances legally where you may have parents who insist that they are incapable of homeschooling themselves and perhaps you have one of those families where neither parent has a high school diploma.

Can they allow other parents in the neighborhood or in the church where they happen to be a member, if they are willing to do this, can other parents have the children of other families educated in the homeschooling situation in their own homes?

So, I'm not sure about the particular laws for each individual state.

I could look into specific states. But in the state of Pennsylvania, the parent is what is called the supervisor of the home education plan.

So, the parent is the one who's overseeing the program and they need to sign an affidavit or an unsworn declaration at the beginning of the school year with their local school district and they need to have a high school diploma to do that.

So, if they don't legally have a high school diploma, there are challenges involved in that.

And there is a wonderful organization called the Homeschool Legal Defense Association and HSLDA for short, it's a

Christian organization that helps support homeschool families throughout the world and also helps to fight for homeschool -friendly legislation.

And so, they could advise people specifically on that. If a parent doesn't academically, if they have a high school diploma in the state of Pennsylvania, but they don't feel adequately able to do it themselves, they can enlist the help of an organization like Feros Academy where the main instruction is happening with us and we're guiding the parents on the homeschool journey so that they would receive the support that they needed to adequately fulfill their role as supervisor of the home education program.

And this concept that you have about to launch later this year,

Feros Academy, is that something to your knowledge that exists in other states?

And how frequently have you heard of other communities having such a program?

Sure. Well, we are a homeschool hybrid and homeschool hybrids have exploded in the

United States over the last year. It is definitely becoming an option for homeschool parents.

When we started this journey looking into this, there were very few options out there.

And even in the year and a half, two years that we've been in process, that we've been planning, we have seen so many other options even in our area pop up.

Now, every model is slightly different. And I think that we offer a unique piece and that we're also mentoring and nurturing parents in the journey.

But there are multiple options in most, within distance of most homeschoolers.

I would even venture to say in many states throughout the nation. Now, as this is, people are seeing the need for this and the value in a hybrid program that will allow them the freedom and the involvement of the homeschool world with some of the accountability and structure and support of a hybrid school.

Great. Well, I'm glad to hear that this has exploded. Do you know of any states in the union that do not have such a hybrid option?

I do not. But I would encourage people to, again,

I'm going to throw the name out of the Homeschool Legal Defense Association, because they are a great resource.

And they also work with homeschool programs like Ferris Academy.

They keep a registry of those things as well. And any local homeschool organizations in your state would likely be able to point you to available resources, whether those resources are a homeschool hybrid like Ferris, or whether they are homeschool martial art classes or homeschool theater productions, things like that.

But usually those local homeschool organizations in our area, we have

Harrisburg Area Homeschoolers Association, and they, it's called

HAHA. And HAHA keeps a list and makes those resources available to homeschool parents in this area.

Now, why do you believe that this is an urgent need in the body of Christ nationwide and even worldwide to not allow their children to be raised, nurtured, and educated in government schools?

Well, I said this in our last episode that we did together,

Chris, and I think it bears repeating. Children are being discipled.

And make no mistake, you can say, oh, it's the church that disciples the children.

It's the parent who disciples the children. But I would challenge Christian parents with how many hours are the children spending in school?

And compare that to how many quality hours that children actually have with their parents.

And make no mistake that much of the discipleship is happening during the school day.

It's not necessarily discipleship in what a

Christian parent would hope for. But we're reclaiming hours.

If you do the hours of how many hours a child spends in school.

I had this figure, and I will try to find it for you. I did the math one day about how many hours are spent, say, to 12 in a school.

And how many hours compared to, even if we're generous and we say a child is in church an hour for Sunday school, an hour for worship, and an hour for a

Wednesday night or a kids club or a youth group. And we compare those numbers.

Most of the discipleship, sadly, is occurring in, like Pastor Jensen calls it, in Caesar's school.

In Caesar's school, they're learning the ways of the world. And so we really help families when we share the option of homeschooling to reclaim those crucial discipleship hours with their children.

Now, those of us who have any connection to the media, whether it be television or we own computers and so on.

Especially if we are at all familiar with the conservative outlets in the media that warn

Christians about the things that are going on in government schools.

How prevalent are some of these nightmarish scenarios that we hear that are just full -blown advocating to children, even at very young, tender ages, the normalness in their minds of same -sex relations?

And the host of other things that usually accompany a leftist worldview.

I mean, is that, do you have any idea what percentage of government schools feature that kind of thing?

I don't know how many years ago it was exactly, but I remember the first book for children that made the news.

There may have been books that preceded that, but this is the first one I can remember hearing about.

Heather has two mommies and basically was just trying to teach children that this is completely normal.

There's nothing at all bizarre or nothing that should be rejected or opposed when it comes to a child having two parents of the same gender raising them.

To your knowledge, how common is this in the government schools? Well, I just want to start by saying that I do know that I was a

Christian teacher in a public school for 10 years, and I tried to show the love of Christ to students every single day.

I had to go a little bit more in the back door to do that because I wasn't allowed to openly express my faith.

But I did have a lot of opportunity to share at least some of that picture with my students.

And I applaud and thank all of those Christians who see the public school as their mission field.

But that being said, I do know that what a child hears day in and day out gives them a worldview and a mindset.

And so, scattered throughout this crazy world we live in, this sinful world we live in, is the result of the fall, which is textbooks that normalize same -sex marriages, same -sex relationships.

Peer pressure, that almost considered those things as the right thing to do to support any lifestyle that someone wants to embrace.

I was campaigning in Virginia with a student civics organization one time and went in the school, which was the polling place, to use the restroom.

And there was a sign on the bathroom that said, all were welcome in the women's bathroom.

Basically saying, and I don't remember the exact wording, but basically saying, however you identify, if this is how you see yourself, you are welcome.

And there were some big things that happened several years ago with a school district in Virginia keeping some of those things from parents.

So, I don't have exact statistics to answer your question, but I do very much believe that what

I say to my students in Sunday school, what we hide in our hearts is what we become.

So, if we're hiding a constant diet of a secular worldview in our heart, that is really what's going to be reflected in our thinking, in our actions.

I don't know that childhood is the time to set a child free in the midst of that.

We should be surrounding them with truth. Now, in addition to morally corrupt and demonic sexual ideologies being mainstays in some government schools for even kindergarten children, aren't there other basic standard courses that have always existed in schools that are necessary for a human being to function properly and to excel in life?

They used to call it the three R's, reading, writing, and arithmetic, tongue -in -cheek misspelling of arithmetic.

But aren't even those courses being corrupted by the left where things are being dumbed down?

I mean, it's even been said that to require precision and accuracy in math is racist.

Things like that that are absolutely insane. How common is that kind of insanity?

Well, I think that from the very basic beginning of the world, public schools often teach different theories of evolution, the

Big Bang Theory, things like that, that the Earth is millions and billions of years old and we can't believe what the

Bible account of how the world came into being. From the very beginning, I think that kids are being indoctrinated in science, and what they say is science is lacking answers.

I was taught Darwinian evolution in a Roman Catholic parochial school as long ago as the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Our science teacher actually mocked the Bible's Genesis account of creation.

Wow. Yes. And see, again, one of the verses that we cling to at Ferris Academy is the verse about always being ready to give an answer for the hope that is within you.

And you can't give an answer for the hope that is within you if you haven't been properly educated on what

God's Word says. And if you're not properly educated in, say, science, to be able to look and say, there are holes in the theory of evolution.

There's no contradiction or holes in the Word of God. As far as the insanity with math that I mentioned, how prominent is that, where they're dumbing down math and all that kind of thing?

Well, I think as a whole, the education system is failing.

I mean, I don't think that's some big revelation that I needed to come on your show to share with people.

We look at the graduates and their lack of preparation, and we see that it's failing.

Educating the masses, and this is a very strong opinion of mine, because when you look at all the great minds in history, when you look at the founding fathers even, they were educated generally till eighth grade.

And then there was no such thing as a teenager. You were a child, and then you became a young lady or a young man, and you were mentored.

And your formal education stopped at eighth grade, yet these people were so well -read.

They were so good at mathematics, calculations, science, engineering, things like that, because I believe individual needs were met in a smaller setting.

And discipline to learn, training of the mind was happening, not bluff or educating the masses where you might have missed a mathematical concept that you never learned your, say, multiplication tables, but it was time for the masses to move on.

So whether you understood or didn't understand, your class was moving on.

And something like math is not, you can't skip parts of the process.

You have to understand because it all builds on the basic foundation.

So when we look back and we see these people who were educated to eighth grade, but yet were able to think and speak and write and invent, it's astonishing how many years, even with college education, how lacking our educations are.

And, you know, I learned that the most about myself when I started to homeschool my kids, and I realized how uneducated

I was with a master's degree in the government schools, in the government higher education learning institutions.

Wow. And by the way, folks, I want to remind you, especially if you have not heard my interview from four years ago with Pete Hegseth, who is now our

Secretary of War. But regardless of what you think about current

American foreign policy, I strongly urge you to hear my interview with Pete Hegseth on his book,

Battle for the American Mind, Uprooting a Century of Miseducation.

And all you need to do is go to IronTripDesignRadio .com and type in Hegseth in the search engine,

H -E -G -S -E -T -H, and my two interviews with Pete Hegseth will come up.

And one of them is on his book, Battle for the American Mind, a fascinating history of how the education of our children became corrupted by Marxist ideology and so forth.

But we are going to our first commercial break. And if you would like to join the conversation with a question of your own, our email address is

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least.

City and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government.

And we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune

God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry. Hope PR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan.

We are dedicated to sharing Reformed biblical content every Wednesday and Friday.

Tune in for sermons, lectures, and interviews exploring distinctive Reformed doctrines. If you are looking for Christ -centered content, simply search

Hope PR Ministry on your favorite podcast platform to begin listening today.

Hope PR Ministry also offers Morning Meditations, a daily podcast featuring

Reformed devotionals designed to nourish your soul. Start your day with these spiritually enriching messages by tuning in to Morning Meditations wherever you get your podcasts.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the

Church of Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the

NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Phil Johnson, Executive Director of Grace to You with John MacArthur. I've been a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I highly recommend this show.

But today I want to tell you about one of its advertisers, Rare Document Traders, far and away my favorite source for quality

Charles Spurgeon memorabilia. Are you looking for that special, unique Christmas gift for your pastor or missionary friend or a loved one?

Why not purchase a piece of church history that any believer would cherish? Rare Document Traders is your one -step source for Spurgeon's handwritten manuscripts and letters, as well as other rare books and collectible items from church history.

In 15 years that they've been in business, they've earned a stellar reputation in the Reformed community with thousands of satisfied customers all around the world, including me.

Visit raredoctraders .com today. That's raredoctraders .com, and look for their upcoming

Cyber Monday sales. Don't forget to mention you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

That's raredoctraders .com. I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a

Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the

Great Commission supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family.

At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired

Word of God, inherent in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.

That's L -Y -N -Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast of the

Lord's blessing and the knowledge of himself. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is

Jill Kilker, Director of Children and Youth Ministries at Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania, pastored by my dear friend

Pastor George Jensen. And Jill is the Head of School for Pharos Academy, an expert on homeschooling law in the

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We are addressing homeschooling, a guide for Christian parents.

If you have a question, send it to chrisorensen at gmail .com. chrisorensen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. I'd like you, before we go to any listener questions that come in,

I'd like you to basically give a homeschooling 101 walkthrough.

If there are parents listening or a parent listening who has developed an interest in educating their children at home, perhaps either because of this show or even they've been contemplating it for a while and just have been dragging their heels for one reason or another and making that first step.

What is the very first step that a parent should take when they finally make that decision?

I believe I want to homeschool our children. And where do they go from there?

Sure. Well, the first thing that they need to do once they've prayed and the

Lord has made it clear to them that this is the option that he has for them is to either, you know, search on the

Internet, call the Homeschool Legal Defense Association, or talk to their local school district to get a copy of what their state homeschool laws are.

Now, homeschooling looks different, a little bit different in every state in the nation.

Each individual state makes the decision what their specific homeschool laws are.

I do have, you know, in front of me access from the Homeschool Legal Defense Association.

I have their website up and I can look at laws in specific states.

But I do very well know the laws in the state of Pennsylvania. And the first thing in the state of Pennsylvania that you need to do is if your child is currently in a public school, then you obviously withdraw them from the school.

And in the state of Pennsylvania, you have to file an affidavit or an unsworn declaration and submit educational objectives for your child.

Compulsory education laws in the state of Pennsylvania start at age six, but they vary by state.

And you can begin educating before age six. You just are not legally required to report that you are educating because it's not compulsory until that age.

So the first step would be to find out specifically what the laws are for homeschooling in your state.

And, of course, I'm sorry, I interrupted you. Go ahead. No, I'm sorry. After that, obviously, there's more to the process depending on your state.

But that would be your place to start. Now, as far as a curriculum, the

Christian parents desiring to homeschool, obviously, one of the reasons is they don't want their children, as Votie Baucom so accurately put it, if you send your children to Caesars schools, don't be surprised when they return.

Turn home little Romans. That's the primary motivation for most, if not all,

Christian parents who want to homeschool. So, therefore, a curriculum that they choose to guide them in homeschooling, they're going to typically want it to be as having as little influence from the government as possible.

So how do they go about finding a curriculum and what's mandated by law to be included in that curriculum?

Sure. Again, I'll address the second part of your question, which is what is mandated by law to be in your curriculum.

Again, that's going to be state specific. I know it's not your for -pleasure reading, but I do very much suggest that a parent take the time to read through the homeschool law of their particular state, and that will spell out what needs to be included, mandates, mandated subjects for that state.

How long is that typically? How long do they have to wade through something like that?

Not particularly. As legal things go, it's not particularly challenging to understand.

I know I've said it multiple times, but again, the Homeschool Legal Defense Association can help parents wade through that.

Parents can become members and they can guide them in having an understanding of that.

But there are also so many helps out there. My oldest child is 25, so I started homeschooling her two decades ago.

It was a little harder to find things in those days, and homeschooling was still more on the fringe.

But in 2026, it is growing and thriving, and there are so many resources.

As I said, local organizations and even websites that help you wade through that.

It's not as heavy as many legal documents would be, because parents need to understand it to be able to follow the laws.

I would encourage the parents to just look at that and make sure, but talk to other homeschoolers.

Pennsylvania is a state that requires an evaluation at the end of the year by an evaluator who meets certain qualifications that are described under the law.

That is one of the hats that I wear, and I work with many families.

Part of what I do is guide them in understanding the law when they have questions about what is required of them.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have a grasp of this particular area of the law, and most parents, once they talk to someone, can figure out what the government actually requires of them.

And then, when you get to the fun part, I think it's the fun part, because I am a bit of a, how do

I want to say, curriculum... Nerd? Nerd. Nerd is a good word.

Nerd is a great word. You know, back in the early days of homeschooling, there was a

Becca Christian curriculum available for homeschooling, and there was Bob Jones, and they were the main two.

And there really just wasn't much out there for parents to use, and now it's almost like the difference between buying your groceries at a convenience store or buying them at a mega -mart.

The options are endless. It's almost too much to weed through.

And in terms of influence from curriculum, curriculum written from a

Christian worldview is plentiful, and it's a blessing as a parent to be able to pick and choose.

As I said, in fact, it's sometimes overwhelming to weed through.

So again, I recommend that if you have other homeschoolers in your church, that you talk to homeschooling families about what they use.

There are plenty of resources out there. There's a company called

Rainbow Resource. Uh -oh. And I tell people, but I always tell people we're talking

God's rainbow here. And make sure when you

Google that you don't find some crazy things. How long ago did they name it that?

A long time ago. I used it when I first started homeschooling my daughter, my oldest child.

I used it then, and they provide reviews on curriculum. And I believe it is, don't quote me on this, but I believe that it is a

Christian company. And they give, not that they just review

Christian worldview curriculum, they review others as well.

But it's just nice to kind of get a feel for, because there's so much out there, rather than going to each individual site.

One of the curriculums that I like for science is Apologia. Apologia Science is all from a

Christian, young earth creation point of view.

And it's, you know, real science without all the, if I can say this on the radio, crap.

That we don't want our children to hear. Just out of curiosity, is it affiliated at all with Apologia Church in Phoenix, Arizona?

Or actually it's in Mesa, Arizona. The only reason I ask is because they are actually mispronouncing that word.

It's, from what I understand, properly pronounced Apologia. Oh, I don't believe it's connected with,

I don't believe it's connected with them. And North French Pastor Jeff Durbin, I just happened to know that James White, before he was an elder there, was ribbing you for years about the mispronunciation.

And then he finally gave in and calls it Apologia as well. Ah, yes.

Well, it's one of many. There are other Christian science curriculum out there.

You know, where the children, I remember, you know, using, talking about science and talking about the wonder of the world that God created and how that's evident, not only in science, but it's evident in mathematics.

It's evident in every part of the curriculum. And I remember when my children were young, just really hitting hard the truth of God's word and the importance that they know and be well educated so they can defend their faith.

When others come up with, say, evolution and want to discuss that, that they not just say because the

Bible says. To you and me, saying because the Bible says, we believe it because the

Bible says it. But to the rest of the world who doesn't believe in the authority of the

Bible, you need to be educated, to be academically educated in how to defend that using terms that they understand from a science perspective.

And one time my son and his cousin, my sister's little boy, who were educated, you know, with a

Christian worldview, they were in elementary school and they went to the local museum and they had a class.

One of my sisters offered to pay for this class because she's a science teacher, but she's a

Christian. And they went and they were talking about all of these different things having to do with evolution.

And I walked in to pick them up and I heard them politely, respectfully defending their faith, but pointing to the word of God.

And I was so thankful that we, my sister and I, chose to homeschool our children so that they were able as elementary kids to give an answer for the hope that was within them.

And when we return, I'd like you to define classical

Christian education, because I know that that is near and dear to your heart, and you actually pattern

Pharaoh's Academy according to a classical

Christian school blueprint. So perhaps when we come back, you could tell us about classical education and why you believe that is a phenomenal option for curriculum that parents should explore.

And if anybody else would like to ask a question, we do have a couple of people waiting for their questions to be asked and answered on air.

Just send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least. City and state and country of residence. Please don't go away. We're going to be right back. I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the

SecureComm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network.

Whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.

For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com.

That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining

Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Attoy in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

Still praising

God for the addition of Gold Wealth Management to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio family of advertisers.

They are veteran -owned and operated, and built on the values of honor, courage, commitment, and service to others.

The same values that were instilled in the owner during his eight years in the Marine Corps. Gold Wealth Management is offering free reports on current market conditions.

The threat of BRICS, which stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.

The Cumming digital currency, and how to protect your savings and retirement accounts with real assets like physical gold and silver.

There is absolutely no pressure and no obligation. Request your free reports today.

Call 623 -640 -5911.

That's 623 -640 -5911. Or visit goldwealthmanagement .com

slash iron. That's goldwealthmanagement .com slash iron.

And tell them Chris from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio sent you. Don't wait. Be informed.

Be prepared. With Gold Wealth Management. Hello, my name is

Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York. And also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We're dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed

Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keech's Catechism and the

Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry, in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardenville, Nevada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB. And tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the

American Gem Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring, or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications,

Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered. No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step -by -step through every stage of the process, and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit.

Using state -of -the -art jewelry design technology to serve you. They start by listening carefully to determine your needs.

They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you. From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product.

They're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed, and well beyond your expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com, that's royaldiadem .com today.

Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife Bronnie, his business partner and manager

Brian Wilson, and the entire family thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, Valentine's Day will be here before you know it, so why not buy that special loved one in your life a head -turning, stunning, breathtaking, gorgeous piece of jewelry from royaldiadem .com,

because in doing so, you'll simultaneously be giving Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a Valentine's Day gift, and keep in mind that is my birthday.

So the reason I say that is because every time an

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener purchases jewelry from royaldiadem .com and mentions

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we get 100 % of the profits from that sale simply by our listeners mentioning

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when they purchase their jewelry from royaldiadem .com. So whether you are purchasing jewelry for yourself or someone you love, whether you are purchasing jewelry that they already have in stock, or if you're having a one -of -a -kind customized piece of jewelry designed and created, like an engagement ring, or maybe it's even taking your loved one's church logo or parachurch ministry logo or seminary logo and turning it into a pendant for a necklace or a ring, or anything else your imagination can conjure up, royaldiadem .com

are experts at customizing jewelry exactly according to your specifications and imagination.

So whatever the case may be, if you're ordering jewelry from royaldiadem .com

and you mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we get 100 % of the profits from that sale. So go to royaldiadem .com

today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, especially go to that website today if you want to purchase something for Valentine's Day because it will be here before you know it.

Before I return to my guest today, Jill Kilker, who is—she is actually the second time she's been on this program.

She's director of Children and Youth Ministries at Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania, the head of school for Pharos Academy, an expert on homeschooling law in the

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We will return to our conversation on Homeschooling, a

Guide for Christian Parents. But I have to first urge you folks, if you really love the show, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

And if you prefer snail mail, like some people do, mailing a physical check from your post office to a physical mailing address, there are—there will be also a physical mailing address that appears on your screen when you click

Support at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your parachurch ministry, your business, your private professional practice like a law firm or a medical firm, or maybe it's just a special event that you want to promote, whatever it is, if it's compatible with my beliefs,

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations, especially since we lost two of our largest advertisers, one of which was a local

Cumberland County Christian bookstore that had been serving the community for 50 years, in fact, had a global customer base providing the finest in Christian literature at very reasonable prices.

They sadly closed their doors permanently just over two months ago.

So we lost that valuable source of income. We need your help to replace and replenish that lost income.

So please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now.

And last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live on the planet

Earth, I have helped many people spanning the entire globe in my audience find churches, sometimes even just a couple of minutes from where they live, that are biblically faithful.

And that may be you too. So no matter where you live in the world, if you're without a biblically faithful church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Jill Kilpner on homeschooling.

And that's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

And Jill, if you could, since the classical

Christian education formula for educating children is near and dear to your heart, and you pattern

Pharoah's Academy in Enola, Pennsylvania after that, why don't you explain to our listeners what are the unique advantages of classical education and exactly what is it?

Sure. Well, classical education is a model that basically combines the liberal arts with a biblical worldview in the pursuit of goodness, truth, and beauty.

And kind of the components of classical education are looking at a learner in what we call the trivium.

And the trivium is kind of a framework for children's stages of learning.

We're familiar with schools, grammar schools. Grammar schools are for younger children.

And in the core components of the trivium, the grammar stage is roughly kindergarten to sixth grade.

And in that stage, classical education focuses on memorizing facts, using things like songs and chants and rhymes and things like that.

And children in that stage are just absorbing information. If you think of a child, like a toddler learning to, a baby learning to speak, they're absorbing new words every single day.

So in the grammar stage, roughly, again, kindergarten through sixth grade, you're using these things to really just build the knowledge base for a child.

And they naturally can learn things better than those of us who are further along in our brain development.

In the trivium, the second stage is like roughly seventh through ninth grade.

And that's called the logic stage in classical education.

And in this stage, we encourage critical thinking, having discussions.

It's kind of a stage where the students are able to take all of those facts that they learned, absorbed in the grammar stage, and start to use their natural argumentative nature at that age, that middle school age, to discuss civil discourse on the information.

And then the third stage of the trivium is the rhetorical stage, and that's your high school stage.

And in that particular stage of classical education, there's persuasive communication, expressing opinions, and having discussions, speaking eloquently, and defending beliefs.

And that's kind of what the trivium is of classical education. Some of the other things focused on in classical education are the quadrivium, using great books and original source texts.

In other words, not reading, for example, a commentary on the

Declaration of Independence, but reading the text itself, reading the original document.

There's also an emphasis in classical education to learning Latin and Greek, and then basically developing that biblical worldview is another component of what a classical education would be.

And when you put all these things together, it's a beautiful, beautiful education for a child.

And children educated in this manner become adults who can think and speak eloquently.

And I can recall a motto of Grace Christian Academy in Merrick, Long Island, that is affiliated with the church where I was formerly a member when

I was still living in New York, before moving to Pennsylvania. I remember the motto of Grace Christian Academy, which is a classical school.

And I may be not saying it exactly as they say it, but it was something like, we don't just teach children what to know, we teach them how to think.

Is that a universal motto of classical education? Most definitely.

To teach them how to think, when they can think and they can speak, when you combine it with the ability to speak, which starts early on in a good classical education.

Students very young, from the time they're first starting their education, are encouraged to do public speaking events, even if that's just standing before a group of family members or a group of other children and sharing about a favorite toy.

They're getting comfortable with expressing themselves in front of others.

And because they have the grammar, the facts, at that stage, they're able to share that information.

And as they go through the dialectic and the rhetorical stage, they fine tune those skills and can speak in a manner to communicate well and to be understood and to speak truth.

Now, I understand that one of the main elements of classical education, and this has not only gained praise from many

Christians over the years, but has actually gotten some

Christians angry and propelling them basically to avoid classical education, is the inclusion of non -Christian philosophies and literature so that Christian children can learn how to defend a

Christian worldview in a world where they are a minority. And so they're not only learning and gleaning from the best of what the world has to offer, but they're also learning how to, when necessary, refute it.

And am I correct in my assessment, if you want to add to that? Yes, absolutely.

A good Christian education explores the classics, and the classics are not all written with a

Christian worldview. Many of them are not. And you're exploring so many things that maybe are contrary to what the

Bible says. However, when you're educated also with God's Word as the foundation, you're able to have intelligent conversations about virtue and where virtue is seen, where virtue is not seen.

And so as you listen to groups of kids who have been classically educated, their ability to express themselves about secular literature as well as, well,

I guess I should say in comparing it to the Word of God, it's definitely something worth listening to.

And many people have said even about my children over the years, not because of my effort, but because of the grace of God as I've educated them and the classical model, they tend to be able to speak like many adults can't speak with ease and intelligence because of the models, the things that are stressed in the model itself.

And how far back can we trace the origins of classical education?

Oh, goodness. I believe, and I'm not an expert on the history of it, but I think it would go back to the

Greeks and the Romans. And it's a model that has been around.

We use Socratic dialogue and we look into discussions and education that happened many, many years ago.

So it's been around for a long time. It's really uncovering the roots of that.

It's been around, you know, for so many years.

And we're returning to that instead of basically the education system as it currently stands in government schools is rather new.

And as I said, it's rather unsuccessful. And I think we're seeing that more and more.

And one more thing before I go to a listener question. I know that Grace Christian Academy that I just mentioned earlier in Merrick, New York, I know that they teach

Latin, and I found that fascinating being a non -Roman Catholic school.

In fact, I think most classical schools are not Roman Catholic. There may be exceptions that I'm not aware of.

But why is that? It seems to be common in classical schools.

Why is Latin deemed to be so important when they're not producing little altar boys?

And, of course, even the Roman Catholic Church gave up teaching

Latin to altar boys after Vatican II in the 1960s.

So why is that? Why is it such an important course?

Well, Chris, I will be honest with you. My son might not like that I'm sharing this on the radio.

When I had him do Latin throughout school, I finally, I think it was about maybe seventh or eighth grade,

I finally had to say, you are no longer allowed to ask me why you have to learn

Latin because you think it's useless. But it is so valuable. First of all, it's the learning

Latin has so many benefits. It helps improve English, understanding

Latin roots. Like I think it's something like 60, 70, 80 percent of English words have

Latin roots. And so it helps with vocabulary and spelling.

It helps with reading comprehension. It also helps students develop,

I want to almost say like mental discipline, training their brain, thinking logically, paying attention to all the little details, problem solving, things like that.

It helps students who learn other languages. It gives, obviously, a strong base for the

Romance languages because they're based on Latin. But even we use

Latin in classical schools to help us learn English grammar. And then you can even get into the better understanding of the past and the better understanding of anything related to Western culture by studying

Latin. And then there's all of the medical terms, scientific terminology, things like that, which are

Latin based. And law, it's very important for students who are planning to go into law as well.

So I don't know that I can stress enough. I spent many years as a homeschool mom defending it to my child.

I have one child. My daughter loves Latin. And my son was not a fan of it.

But he was able, after he graduated from high school, from homeschool high school, he was able to teach himself

Russian. Wow. So you're saying there is a good spin on the phrase

Latin lover. Yes. That's a good spin.

All right. Mary in Sunbury, Pennsylvania asks, what about parents who have come to faith late in life?

They already have children who unfortunately were being incorrectly raised according to the ways of the world and not according to the

Scriptures. And the children have not yet become used to having correct, proper biblical discipline in the home.

How do we prevent children from becoming lazy and not doing what they are supposed to be doing if they are in the confines of a household where they have been known to disobey their parents?

Oh, okay. So are we talking children that still live at home?

Well, I'm assuming if the listener is talking about homeschooling the kids.

Oh, okay. Okay. With homeschooling. Well, home education in and of itself requires discipline, but it also requires a parent to work on their own discipline.

I know for me, I was very structured and well organized in the public school because I had to be.

It was my job. But then when I was homeschooling, it was harder to discipline myself.

It was harder for me to discipline myself at home to have a regular schedule and things like that.

But I have seen children come into homeschooling and into classical home education at older ages, and they're missing some of the foundation of the grammar stage and the dialectic stage.

But classical curriculum, classical teaching, classical education mindset helps develop that discipline.

And something like Latin, as I said a few minutes ago, definitely helps the mind to discipline itself.

Now, in terms of biblically disciplining, that is something that as the parent develops their own discipline, having come to the faith later in life, as they come to that, they're going to want to work on their own training and discipline.

And they can do that as a family. That's part of the beauty of homeschooling, learning together, growing together.

So I would just encourage them to never say it's too late to do that.

As I said earlier, I have realized the flaws in my own education, and I've been able to learn right along with my children.

And I will probably say that they definitely outlearned me, but I'm not the person

I was when I began the homeschool journey, because it has filled in so many gaps for me as well, both biblically, educationally, and in the form of developing those mental and spiritual disciplines.

Okay. I hope that helps, Mary. Yeah, I hope so too. And Mary, you may feel free to follow up with another question if you have it.

We have Teresa in Sugar Hill, Georgia. And Teresa says, you've already discussed why some parents object to practicing homeschooling, mainly out of financial reasons because that demands to parents to be working outside the home.

And also because they don't feel equipped to do this. But what are the most common objections to the older teenage child who is forming a sense of independence in his life?

How do they usually battle their parents on a decision to homeschool them?

Great question. Well, I definitely hear you,

Teresa, in the financial end, and we did touch on that. I will share that as a homeschool mom,

I always had to work. When I resigned from my job to be a mom,

I had the main income in my family, and it was an interesting adjustment, and we had to get creative in financially sustaining our family in a two -income society.

So that is a huge one. Now, with older children, one of the complaints that many people say and that the students themselves might use as a reason not to homeschool is the lack of socialization.

I hear that all the time from families who say, but I don't want my child to be awkward.

I don't want them not to know how to interact in a social setting.

And another thing that I hear is I want to be with my friends.

I want to be with peers. And I do think that young people have a strong, they enter a stage where they have a strong desire to be with peers.

And there's so many ways that we can provide both socialization so that they're not socially awkward and the ability to be with peers in the homeschool setting.

There are co -op. There are hybrid schools like Ferris Academy. There are community sporting leagues.

There are youth groups at churches. There are classes that homeschoolers can take together that maybe are offered by a museum or a college.

There are so many ways that you can give your children socialization.

In fact, I always laughed a little bit at that comment because my children and I, while we needed to work harder to be at home to actually homeschool because we spent so much of our time out with other people, living our lives and interacting socially, that that was never an issue.

And as they got older and they desired those peers, that's when

I really tapped into some of those classes and some of those extra activities.

And we are going to go to our final break. And when we come back, I'd like you to begin talking about the preparing of those older teenage children, high school age children for college and so on, and perhaps even getting into a trade rather than college.

But preparing them for life outside of the homeschool atmosphere when they completely fulfill everything that they legally need to do to be considered a graduate and will have you get involved in that very important aspect of homeschooling.

And once again, if you have any questions of your own, submit them to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word.

And to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

I'm Dr. Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, Pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word.

For the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our

Triune God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

In our worship, we sing Psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

This program is sponsored by Hope PR Ministry. Hope PR Ministry is a podcast produced by Hope Protestant Reformed Church in Walker, Michigan.

We are dedicated to sharing Reformed Biblical content every Wednesday and Friday.

Tune in for sermons, lectures, and interviews exploring distinctive Reformed doctrines.

If you are looking for Christ -centered content, simply search Hope PR Ministry on your favorite podcast platform to begin listening today.

Hope PR Ministry also offers Morning Meditations, a daily podcast featuring

Reformed devotionals designed to nourish your soul. Start your day with these spiritually enriching messages by tuning in to Morning Meditations, wherever you get your podcasts.

Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Shopping Zion radio program.

SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.

We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com.

But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners, and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.

That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

God bless you. And don't forget, folks, this program is also paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

United States, please call my longtime very dear friend and brother in Christ, Daniel P.

Buttafuoco, attorney at law, at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit

Dan's website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

Please make sure you tell Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm,

Buttafuoco and Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I also want to remind all men in ministry leadership that you are invited to the next free biannual

Iron Trip and Zion Radio pastors' luncheon on Thursday, March 5th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Alloysville, Pennsylvania, featuring as keynote speaker for the second time,

Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, who is an author, who is a highly sought -after, world -renowned conference speaker, who is the pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, who is a

Reformed Baptist church planter in Africa, having planted dozens of congregations, and also the founding chancellor of African Christian University.

If you're a man in ministry leadership, whether you're a pastor, an elder, deacon, or if you run or are in leadership of a para -church organization, when you'd like to attend, please send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail dot com, and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line.

Please, in that email, include your name, the name of your church or para -church organization, its location, and the number of men you expect to be joining you.

This is absolutely free of charge, and not only do you get to eat for free and be nourished by Dr.

Conrad M. Bayway's message for free, everybody who attends will receive one heavy sack, and maybe even two heavy sacks, of free brand -new books personally selected by me and donated by generous

Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom. Everything is free of charge, and that's by the insistence of my precious late wife,

Julie, who designed and helped me launch these pastor's luncheons in the 1990s when

I was still living on Long Island. These luncheons are her brainchild, and she insisted that I never have anything sold at these events, and that the pastors knew that they could come to these events expecting nothing but being treated because of the fact that nine out of ten times when pastors are invited to an event, there are ulterior motives behind those hosting the events where they want to get money out of these men, and my late wife wanted to make sure that that was never the case with my luncheons, and so I follow her blueprint for these luncheons and now conduct them in loving memory of her and in tribute and honor to her.

So, once again, if you'd like to attend, if you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email to chrisorensen at gmail .com

and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. The night before the pastor's luncheon, an event that's open to everybody, men, women, and children, is

Dr. M. Bayway's speaking engagement at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

That's Wednesday, the 4th of March at 7 p .m.

For directions and other information to Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to trbccarlisle .org,

trbccarlisle .org. I hope to see as many of you as possible at these events, and we are now back with Jill Kilkenner talking about homeschooling.

So, in what way can homeschool be a preparatory ground for children to enter into college and also perhaps even if they choose not to go to college but enter into some kind of trade or other source of employment?

How is this helping? Oh, I'm sorry. I have you on mute still,

Jill. Sorry about that. That's okay. I will say that was one of my concerns as a homeschool mom, that my children would be prepared for college or whatever career they chose.

And one of the ways that you can do that, first of all, is to make sure that you're setting high expectations for your homeschooler.

No one wants more for our children than we do. And if we set the bar high,

I've noticed in working with my own children and other children over the years, whatever you set the bar at is what they meet.

So, set the bar high. Help them create a strong transcript so that they have options for any field that they want to go into.

This can include one of the beauties of homeschooling, which is dual enrollment, an ability to do dual enrollment, which is when students, if people aren't familiar, when students are simultaneously earning high school credits while earning college credits.

So, universities have courses that they can take in what's called dual enrollment.

And that is going to give them a transcript and a leg up in terms of being able to, shall we say, kill two birds with one stone, getting the high school credit and the college credit.

Another beauty of homeschooling is the ability for a student to shadow a professional.

If you have a student who's interested in plumbing, they can shadow a plumber.

If you have a student who can get a job in a field, say if they're interested in medicine, something in the medical field, they can get a job at the hospital because they have more hours and flexibility in their day to do these things.

My daughter in particular knew in ninth grade she wanted to go into politics.

And for four years in her homeschooling journey, she was able to do things in local government.

I think I shared that on the last program. She was able to campaign and work at the polls and do things to build a really great resume for her future career.

Another thing is children who are homeschooled often develop,

I want to say, good study habits, self -motivation, things that college freshmen are still trying to figure out in that first year because they had a teacher standing over them all the time, whereas a homeschool student had more time to potentially work independently.

So they were able to develop that self -motivation that that first -year college student has to figure out what was going to make or break them in terms of their success.

One of the things that I would say to someone considering homeschooling, as they look and they say, my child will never be prepared for school, it's so abnormal to keep your child at home,

I try to just encourage them that life is more similar to the homeschool classroom than it is to the government school classroom.

The homeschool classroom is filled with multiple ages.

There might be a baby and there'll be a mother, father, whatever, grandparent, multiple ages, just like the workplace.

It is the traditional school model where students are homogeneously grouped with students their own age from the same neighborhood, things like that, and that's not prep for the real world.

Prep for the real world is learning to work with multiple ages, multiple people from different backgrounds and things like that.

So homeschooling in and of itself helps a student prepare. The time management is huge as well.

Well, we do have time for one more question from a listener. We have Wendy in Mapleshade, New Jersey.

What a great name for a community. Wendy says, have you heard of many cases of parental burnout from homeschooling, especially if they have a large family?

Well, Wendy, I've experienced parental burnout, to be perfectly honest. Homeschooling can be lonely, and that's why

I would encourage any parent considering it to seek out other homeschool families and encourage one another.

One of the things I do as a homeschool consultant and evaluator is

I try to be a sounding board for parents who are struggling in the journey, who are feeling lonely in the journey.

One thing that we will offer to our parents at Ferris Academy is we call it

HOPE. Helping our parents educate is what the acronym HOPE stands for.

Providing a sounding board for those parents, providing support, both support in how to homeschool, but also encouragement to not give up hope, to encourage one another in that journey.

And so, yes, burnout can be real because it's a very hard job to homeschool children.

It's a hard job that is so worth it, but it is a hard job.

And if you're not taking care of yourself, allowing time for your own interests, providing structure so that you can have a few moments to yourself, enlisting the help of outside teachers for things that are too much for you, or enlisting a grandparent's help or a co -op or something like that, the burnout can be real because it's a job that we never leave.

But I think with a support system, it's very, very rewarding and beneficial for families.

And I would never trade the closeness that I have with my children because of the journey we've had together.

Could you, in a minute, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about our topic? Sure. I started by saying that we're gaining back those precious hours of discipleship with our children.

And I started by saying how many hours we gain. And when

I did the math and I looked at it, the average child spends 11 ,000 to 12 ,000 hours in school, kindergarten through grade 12.

And they spend an average of just over 2 ,000 hours in church.

They're being discipled. You pick. Do you want them discipled by the ways of the world in the government schools, or do you want them discipled in the ways of the

Lord by the human who loves them the most, the parent? You can do it.

There is hope, and God will fill in the blanks. I know he did for me.

Amen. Well, if you want more information about Pharos Academy, about homeschooling, you need to get in touch with Jill Kilkenner, my guest today.

Go to the website of the Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania, enolacog .com.

That's enolacog .com, and click on Ministries, and then click on Pharos Academy, P -H -A -R -O -S.

I want to thank you so much for being such a wonderful guest today, Jill, and I want to thank everybody who listened.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.