Next Week with Jeff Durbin: Christmas Special!

What's up guys, welcome back to another episode of Next Week. I'm Jeff Durbin, that is Luke the Bear right there. Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! You'll notice that it's a Christmas set right now. That's right, very exciting time of year, Luke's here and we also have Marcus, King Ginger Pitman right now.

Wade likes him. Wade likes you, yeah. Alright so this is Marcus Pitman, he is the director, the filmmaker of Babies Are Still Murdered here and he's a member of Apologia Church and you guys all know who Marcus is.

Amazon Prime Release and the Film’s Horror Category

So alright, let's update man, let's talk. So it's... Big news!

What? Go ahead. Oh yeah, so the movie is now on Amazon Prime. Alright! Yeah! Amazon Prime! So that's pretty important I think because it's going to get the movie out there to a lot of people who would have never found it, certainly not found it on YouTube because you can't find anything on YouTube anymore.

Because YouTube's algorithm and everything suppresses Christian content.

Suppresses anything based on words that are spoken in the film. But now it's on Amazon Prime and so it's got over, I think we're at maybe like 200 reviews already. Are you serious? Five star reviews, yeah.

What is that, in two days? Yeah, in two days. So I think that means it's going to be suggested and put out there in front of people. Just imagine people just looking through the Roku and saying, oh, what's this movie about?

That's a platform that... Especially if you're looking for some horror movies. Oh yeah. Because it's under horror. That's why it's in there. Yeah, that was a... Wait, wait, what?

It's under horror. Yeah, it's categorized under horror movie. Why? Because Darren Doan told me not to put it under Christian stuff because no one will watch it. But if you put it under different categories that's relevant to the film, then it'll get more.

It is horrifying, for sure. And it works.

It's under documentary horror and non-fiction. Okay.

What Babies Are Still Murdered Here Is About

All right. Well, for people who are new, most of you who are watching next week will probably know what we're talking about in the film Babies Are Still Murdered Here. But just give everyone sort of a picture of what is Babies Are Still Murdered Here.

What is the film?

So the film is about essentially how the pro-life lobbies and organization have allowed abortion to continue for the past 46 years just by essentially not wanting to see abortion totally ended and not having the guts to really follow through and pass any sort of legislation with teeth.

It's a bold claim to say that the pro-life organizations don't want abortion ended. No. It appears methodologically. Right. So what do you mean by that? Because people right now are watching this, they're saying, well, I thought you guys are pro-life.

And we would say, yes, we're pro-life, but we're not with the pro-life industrial system. But it's a bold claim to say that they're not trying to end it. So what do you mean? Well, what does the film teach us and demonstrate to us that they're not trying ultimately to.

End it now? Well, the film shows how they only support legislation that's politically expedient or popular. OK. So, for example, with the heartbeat bills in Ohio, the citizens wanted a heartbeat bill to be passed for years.

And the pro-Ohio right to life refused and said, no, we're going to do this other bill. Here's, you know, like maybe like a 20 week ban or an infant born alive act or some other form of legislation, but not the heartbeat bill.

But eventually the citizens of Ohio demanded a heartbeat bill and they got it passed. They got it through the legislature and they got the governor to sign it and agree to it. And then when the governor signed it, oh, there was a higher right to life clapping when the governor signed it as a part of it, like they were behind it.

But, you know, they've been opposing it the past few years. They've been opposing that legislation. But because the citizens rose up and wanted it, suddenly they felt a need to get behind it. And then a few days after that, it was signed.

It was struck down in the Ohio Supreme Court as unconstitutional or whatever. And then three days after that at the National Right to Life Convention, they did a whole lecture on essentially how not to get behind and support heartbeat bills or these dramatic legislations to end abortion.

So they're mocking it. And it's interesting to me that I even found that video because it was the only video National Right to Life uploaded recently in the past two years. But they uploaded that within one week of that lecture at the National Right to Life Convention.

And it was the only thing from the convention they uploaded was that talk on their channel. Definitely providential. We needed that to show the problem. I mean, they knew exactly why they did it. They were doing it.

So the thing is, even though they're in there and they're cheering and stuff, they're not going to put up the money and the funds to fight the courts to make that law go through. They're just going to say, see, told you.

Now go back to our legislation.

The Pro-Life Industrial System and Republican Strategy

So what's the difference, though? What are you saying for the people who are saying, OK, wait, I'm confused. I thought that we were all pro-life, we're Christians, and now you're saying that they're not ultimately helping.

So what's the difference between their message and our message?

What are the two different perspectives? Our message is that we're not using pro-life legislation as a means to get Republicans elected. So that's what the pro-life lobby's main focus is, is in Republican elections.

And they'll tell you this, like Jim Bopp, who's the chief legal mind at National Right to Life. He's the one that gave that talk. He's the one that said, don't vote for it. Don't put it. Yeah, don't put these laws.

He'll tell you the reason why is because if, let's say, a heartbeat bill would move moderate Republicans to vote Democrat. And then they'll lose, through chain reaction, Supreme Court justices. So they have to go with laws that are not, that will get pro-life legislators elected.

Or sorry, not even pro-life legislators, Republicans elected. So it doesn't matter if you're pro-life or not. And so that's their main focus. And that's why they're one of the only political lobbies that I know of where the GOP, the Republicans, actually fund them.

Because that's how strong the pro-life vote is, is that if the pro-life organizations like National Right to Life says, we endorse this guy as being pro-life, you have 50 of the voting bloc that'll vote for him right away.

What says a lot about our ability to end abortion, actually, to really end it, is that this voting bloc is in such a large support, it's such a strong voting bloc.

That's why they can only do legislation that the Republicans approve of. So it becomes, it's not about ending abortion, it becomes this political strategy of how far can we push the Republicans that we've endorsed to vote on legislation, and do they feel comfortable?

Will they lose votes? It's just this massive system.

Well there's two, that's a good point, so talk about this. There's two examples in the last couple of years of abolitionist or criminalization bills, and that's in Oklahoma and Texas. And in both cases of bills that were working to end, outright end, ban, criminalize, abolish abortion in those states, done.

In both cases, it was struck down and ultimately done away with by Republican pro-life legislators. Jeff Leach.

In Texas. Yeah, Jeff Leach in Texas, most notably, who just announced his re-election campaign. So Jeff Leach, you look at, let's say, Jeremiah Thomas, who was on his deathbed, and he got a call from the governor, and he told the governor, my dying wish is to end abortion in Texas, and the governor says, okay, we're going to do it, we're going to put it on the platform, and then so the Texas bill, HB 896, I think it's HB 896, so the Texas bill comes into play, they have it before committee, the Christians come all over the country to show support, and I think they were there for eight hours until 3 a .m. in the morning, they were talking about how they want this bill passed or whatever, and then there comes this point where Rusty Thomas is explaining why this bill needs to be passed, and then Jeff Leach, who has already said, before this meeting started, he's going to vote against it, talks about how much of a hero Jeremiah Thomas is, that he would do this, and this is for him, and he's a hero, and all this stuff, but then he goes and just goes, yeah, well, but I'm not going to vote for it.

A bill to end abortion. A bill to end abortion, he's not going to vote for it. You had a... What was the bill they passed instead? It was some... It was the Infant Born Alive Act. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, so it wasn't even an abortion bill, really, it was just a...

And that was their big win. Protect them if they're born alive. Yeah, Infant Born Alive Act, so that was the one Jeff Leach got behind. The pro-life movement backed that one, rejected, obviously, the one that would end it, and then...

It doesn't do anything about abortion. No. Born alive, protect them once alive.

Yeah. I thought we were already doing that. Well, even in Arizona this last year, do you guys remember what the big pro-life win was in Arizona? The bill they passed? Or maybe it was two sessions ago.

Remind me, I forget. It was, they passed a law saying that if you were having an abortion, you had to essentially give the reason why. Yeah. And that was what they were celebrating. Yeah, it was so...

And it was like, what... Yeah, pitiful. What does that even mean? And it was like, they act like they won this big thing, and it was like, what does it even accomplish?

They act like their victories are actual victories, but they're not. So, if you follow, for instance, National Right to Life on Twitter, they'll share the conflicting things. Like one, this week, I retweeted something they said, because they said, abortion is never healthcare.

That's what they said. And so, I retweeted, I was like, well, if abortion is never healthcare, why do you regulate it like healthcare? Yeah. Because all the regulations on the size of the clinic, whether it meets medical standards, is all based on the assumption that abortion is healthcare.

So, they're conceding Planned Parenthood's position just by, Planned Parenthood doesn't care about regulation. They'll fight regulations all day, but I mean, every business has to fight regulations. So, that's just part of the thing for them.

Planned Parenthood is afraid of criminalization. Right. Yeah. They don't want to do that.

So, then, when you regulate healthcare, just on that standard, if you say, well, it is healthcare, so we're going to regulate it like healthcare, now you're giving authority for the government to regulate healthcare in general.

Right. So, you've given up ground on being against government healthcare and death panels, which they say they're against death panels, but they've lost their position to even argue against death panels when they've already said, well, you can regulate some kinds of healthcare.

But you can't. Right. So, it's just not an organization that has the logical ability to be able to actually end something like abortion.

The Limits of Supreme Court Politics

Well, do you remember what Jim Bopp said in that talk? Specifically, the one thing that stood out to me is he literally said it's a popularity contest. Yes. That was the exact phrase. And it's because they're all about, their whole push is getting a willing court, they call it.

Right. Well. In their mind, the only way, and I know you have a lot to say about that, but in their mind, the only way that you can end abortion is through a willing court. So, he was all about, this is a popularity contest, we've got to get Trump reelected.

Right. But that's literally, his whole speech is about that.

You have to get Republicans voted in the state legislature, you have to get Republicans voted in Congress and the Senate, Republican president, and then a Republican majority Supreme Court, which doesn't matter.

Because in 1992 in Casey versus Planned Parenthood, they had the perfect case that would challenge Roe v. Wade in 1992, and they had eight Republican appointed Supreme Court justices and one Democrat Supreme Court justice.

And I believe the Democrat actually voted in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade, the Democrat appointed Supreme Court justice did, and it was the other eight, I mean, not all eight of them, but everyone that voted against overturning Roe v. Wade were all the Republican.

So, it was like five to six or whatever or something.

Also, we look back at Roe v. Wade itself. Yeah, exactly. Yep, Republicans too. All Republican. Yeah, so it's not going to help us, and I think what's best about these films is your first film, to my mind, instructs the church on the duty of the church to do something and to go out and start saving lives.

That's the challenging part of part one. Part two, you do an excellent job of teaching very seamlessly, I think, teaching what are the major problems and then also responding to some of the objections.

Because I think people hearing this right now are probably going to hear what you're saying in terms of pro-life lobbies, pro-life organizations, pro-life legislation, problem, problem, problem, but they're going to probably go, but Roe v. Wade and we need the Supreme Court, which is what the pro-life establishment says, we need the Supreme Court to go pro-life so we can overturn Roe, but you address that problem too in the film in terms of that's a wrong way to think about how we actually establish justice.

The Supreme Court's not supposed to have legislative power like that. They're not the ones, according to the Constitution, that actually creates law. Congress creates law. You are really arguing in the film that this needs to be something done at the local level where local magistrates, local communities, actually resist the tyranny of the higher magistrate, the higher court.

Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Obviously, if you've taken a basic civics class in school, you learn there's three branches of government, executive, legislative, and judicial. The Supreme Court is judicial.

The Congress is the legislative branch, so the Congress is the one that makes laws. The judicial branch does not make laws. The executive branch does not make laws. They're not supposed to. They're not supposed to, right.

There's executive orders and stuff, but that's another conversation. I think that's essentially how status our nation has become. We look and say, well, all three branches can make laws, but that's not how it's supposed to be.

It's supposed to be only the Congress could make laws after they both voted on it, and then the president had to approve it. Now, the Supreme Court can look at a law the Congress makes and say, well, that's an unconstitutional law.

Then what needs to happen is another law needs to be made. With Roe v. Wade, they said, well, Roe v. Wade is unconstitutional, whatever, but there wasn't ever any law put into effect. It was never made into effect.

The Supreme Court only does opinions on individual. They don't do blanket changes or transformations like that. They're only ruling on that one individual case, Roe v. Wade. Go ahead. Yeah. When it comes to ignoring the Supreme Court, we see that it happens all the time.

The governor of New York ignored the Supreme Court by making sanctuary cities, and he actually said, the governor of New York said to the local governments that you have a responsibility to essentially defy the federal government when it comes to allowing immigrants to enter into your state and illegal immigrants to enter into your state.

And then they went and passed a bill for full-term abortion.

Yeah, and then they went and passed a bill for full-term abortion. But then you have Colorado or Washington where they defy the federal government when it comes to marijuana laws. Nevada. Yeah, Nevada.

So there's always states who in some way defy the federal government, and there's states that defy the federal government when it comes to gun laws and all sorts of other things. So states defy the federal government all the time.

And there's never even any consequences. When you had in Wisconsin, you had the Fugitive Slave Act where they said, the Supreme Court said that slaves are property, and if they are caught, a free slave is caught, they're to be returned back to their owner.

Wisconsin said no and told the Supreme Court to pound sand, and any slave that made it to Wisconsin was free no matter what the Supreme Court said. They didn't go to war over that. Nothing happened. And so that's why a lot of the founding fathers talk about the right for the states to nullify Supreme Court rulings because that would be a legitimate check and balance on that.

It's a very Christian system in terms of accountability, division of powers. It's a form of resistance to tyranny or the potential to tyranny. But the amazing thing with the simple heart of man is that even with all of these checks and balances and a desire to resist tyrannical oppressive regimes, we're facing that today not because the regime actually has the power.

It's because we're so ignorant. We're a nation that has been indoctrinated in such a way as we don't understand our history. We don't understand how our laws work. None of those things. You've got people now, it's crazy.

You have these videos where they go do interviews on the street. I saw one yesterday where they were going on the street and they were just asking basic questions about life. Everyone's supposed to know this stuff.

They walked up to random people on the boulevard and they were like, how many days does it take for the earth to go around the sun? And people were like, this girl was like, 24? And it was just like, whoa.

They're voting. She's voting. Probably, if she can make her way to the place where she votes. So that's the problem is we don't know the strength that we have legally. For example, we've said, we've all gone.

The three of us have gone to the Phoenix legislature to go into demand justice. And we've told them it's illegal right now in Arizona to have an abortion. Like AZ Statute 13 -3603 is the law in our books.

Amazing thing. It's never been taken away. It's never been changed. The amazing thing is that stuff has only been added to it to strengthen it. From the pro-life organizations. From the pro-life organizations.

But the amazing thing is the pro-life organizations are adding stuff to a law that says it's already illegal. And it's like, just point to the law. It says it's already illegal. No additions necessary.

It's just illegal. I think you could add an addition in terms of criminalization and penalty to it. That would help a little better. Strengthen it. Boost it. But right now, it is illegal in Arizona to have an abortion.

It's illegal in Texas to have an abortion. According to Texas state law and Arizona state law, it's illegal in Idaho right now to have an abortion. According to Idaho state law. So you have three states right there that it's technically, right now, currently illegal.

You could seriously just point to it tomorrow in the legislature and say we're going to uphold that. But the problem is we've got people who have been indoctrinated to think that the Supreme Court makes laws.

And that all these things are ultimately in control. Yeah. Why are you smiling? No?

Do you think it's something funny? Well, I was just going to. No, I'm good. I was just going to say, like, I think we talked about this the last show we did, but it's just cowardice. People are literally afraid of the federal beast.

And I don't know what's so funny. But let's just be honest. It's all about money. Right. Because the real fear with these states, say Texas where you have this. He's still laughing. What is he doing? I don't know.

You have these. What is it, Marcus?

We just got to cut for a minute. Okay. We'll have to cut and come back. I don't know why, but, like, that Eric Swalwell fart gate just, like, while we're on camera. You remember that? No. No. No. It just, like, popped in my head while I was doing this.

Oh, I see. I thought you were yawning.

No. No. I was thinking. No, no. I was like, that's like a 20-second yawn. Did you see it? No. Y 'all didn't see it? Fart gate? Did y 'all see it? Yeah. Okay. By the way, we're keeping all of this in.

I'm going to have to watch it now. There's no cut. Presidential candidate.

He's being interviewed. Wait. Why'd you want to cut? This is good show content. Okay. This is gold. No, no. Go ahead. This is gold. I want to hear about it now. Eric, okay. Eric Swalwell, he's a presidential candidate.

He's being interviewed on MSNBC, and he farts right in the middle of it. For real? Yeah, for real. For real? Yeah, for real. I did not see that. Wait. Is this a real video?

Is the video available? Oh, yeah. Okay. We're going to cut to that right now. It's going to be in this. Ready? And... Chris, so far, the evidence is uncontradicted that the president used taxpayer dollars to ask the Ukrainians to help him cheat in an election.

And the complaint that I've heard from Republicans all last week was that you don't have anyone who heard the call. Oh, my God.

Oh, that's hilarious. That's just... I don't know why you would ever ask us to cut from that. This is... Have you been gone that long? Wait. Okay. What did we say when we were talking about this that made you think of that?

Because all I see is Marcus all of a sudden go...

No, it's just that I was being interviewed at the time, and I was thinking of him being interviewed at the time. Were you afraid you were going to fart? Is that why? I talked about it once, and I was like, oh. I don't even remember what we were talking about.

I think I showed it to Carmen before.

Money, Decentralized Church Action, and the Real Power Structure

Okay. All right. All right. Luke, you were asking. So we were talking about how they're afraid because of money. And so, ultimately, the problem in Texas, their concern is if we were to actually pass and uphold this righteous law, which they know is a righteous law.

I'm just trying to hold it in. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Sorry. I know. I'm sorry. I wish it was Jeff Leach that did that, but... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. The problem is they're like, well, the federal government is going to take our funding. Our funding.

I'm sorry. Okay. This is good. Okay. We're taking a breath. Okay. Come back. Okay. I'm going to just focus. I think we were wanting to raise money for EAN for 2020 in this episode. No. That's okay. No.

So, yeah. It's funding. But the funding. Not the farting. Okay. Oh, man. All right. So they don't want to lose the money. Right. And they're like, well, if we do this, then the government's going to take their money from us.

And that's what it boils down to.

Yeah. There's a lot of money involved. I wanted to talk about that because that's a huge factor for us. When we first started End Abortion Now, we didn't have any money. Zero. Zero. We knew we had this grand project ahead of us, a huge need.

This was serious. The churches all needed to get involved in this, but we didn't have any ability to do it. So what we did, we came up with the most basic nuts and bolts budget. Right. Luke and I didn't get paid.

Right. Because that's not what it was about. It was about the need to get churches now equipped to go do the work. We didn't have any money, so we raised a small budget. What was the first year's budget?

$250 ,000, I think. $250 ,000. No, it wasn't that for the first year, was it? Was it? Yeah. Okay. So the first year budget, local church gets involved and starts equipping other churches. Yeah. $250 ,000.

And I don't even know how many hundreds. Was it 200 first year? 200 churches? I think so. I think 200. Yeah. 200, somewhere around there. Those churches now have saved thousands and thousands of lives.

And so each year we've gone up incrementally just because of the need. More churches, more need, more media. But the effect of it all is the amount of budget that was needed to do the damage, the righteous damage that was caused through End Abortion Now was so tiny.

Yeah. You know what you haven't seen the pro-life movement actually developing? Developing a community of people that actually go to the legislature and start actually demanding.

Justice and to end it now. No, because they want to control that. Right. That's where the power is. Yeah. So for them, the power is up at the top. Right. So the people like Carol Tobias and all the leaders that they give awards to, that's where their power is.

Whereas what we're saying is the power isn't in our top lobbyists. Our organization. Our organization. Right. The power is in your local church. With the people. Yeah, your local church and the people going out and sharing the gospel either at the abortion clinic or to the city legislator.

So that's like, actually, I would say that End Abortion Now is cancer to what they're doing because it's decentralizing what they're doing. Because they're saying, the pro-life lobbies are saying, we need to form a big army.

We need to come together and then all of you guys need to do what we tell you to do. We'll lead it. Yeah, we'll lead it. We'll be the face. We have the ear of the president. We have the ear of all these people.

And what we're saying is, don't worry about the people at the top. You guys just pay attention and do what's in your local city. And then like that, anytime Christianity has decentralized something, it's changed the world.

So like printing press, medicine, as Christianity has always decentralized things. So that's one of the principles of economics that Christianity is so good at. And so when you can sit there and take the decentralization of lobbying and say, no, just have the church do it, have the church go to their city councils, have the church get involved in state legislator, state laws.

And as Vati Bakam says, and babies are still murdered here, he says, the reason we always look to what the president of the Supreme Court says is because we're statists and we've just embraced statism and think that all the power is there.

And he says, what we need is a sheriff that can look at something the federal government does and says, not in my county. So that, I think, sums up exactly what we want to do. And I think if, I mean, there's 400 churches already, right?

More than that, close to 450. 450? That's a lot.

It's a lot. That can do a lot of damage to a centralized power. And so once, you know, I mean, and the more of that we have, the more churches that we have, eventually, I think you'll see that the pro-life organizations are just drowned out by the work that we're doing.

And no one is going to pay attention.

Grassroots Growth and De-Platforming the Pro-Life Establishment

And the thing with us, too, is all of those little mini-movements in their communities are all privately governed, privately funded by those local churches. And what's interesting, too, is that what we were able to accomplish by God's grace and through God's people being so sacrificial is that all these churches that have received training from And Abortion Now and resources and can now communicate to one another, literally, moment by moment, worldwide, through the app that was created, all of that came at zero cost to those churches.

We did not ask them for a penny. That's significant, is that we've trusted the Lord to give through His people, sacrificially, to bless these churches and help them. We didn't say, here's a kit, and now can you cough up some money for our organization?

What we're saying is, no, we're a local church that's trying to equip and train other local churches. We're just a church. I'm a local church. We're pastors. And this is a mission of the church. And look what happened.

I mean, you highlight it in your film, Marcus. You highlight how you had pastors and just members of churches going to their local legislatures, children demanding justice for the pre-born and an immediate end to abortion in sanctuary cities.

All that happened because local churches started getting involved. Like you said, decentralization. Take the power away from the pro-life industry.

Well, see, that's how you know a movement is gaining speed. So there's also a bad form of decentralization when, for example, the regulations on the pro-life, on abortion clinics are causing the decentralization of abortion pills.

So like you have, you know, like RE -486 and the morning after pills are becoming easier and easier to get. And then the pro-life lobbies are looking and saying, well, look, guys, the abortion numbers at clinics are down.

But they're not saying, you know, that the abortion bills are... It'd be like me saying, look, guys, nobody takes a taxi cab anymore. We did it. We ended the taxi cab industry. And you go, no, more people are taking Uber and Lyft now more than ever took a taxi cab.

I never took a taxi cab, but I've taken hundreds of Lyfts in my lifetime. So it wouldn't be wise for me to say, see, the regulations on the taxi cab industry, the need to have a medallion has really, you know, stopped, you know, the amount of traffic on the streets in New York.

No, that's increased it. And so... Interesting. Yeah. So that's with any business. Any business, when something is regulated, highly regulated, you know, it's like in Jurassic Park when Goldblum, Jeff Goldblum says, nature will find a way.

Yeah. Like that's how capitalism works through regulation. It'll be like water and it'll find the path of least resistance. And then before you know it, you've got a whole another waterfall on your hand that's completely unregulated.

It happened with smoking industry. Smoking industry regulated themselves as a means to keep competition out. And then vaping started and it was completely unregulated. And so it just blew up. And so that's just how it happens over and over and over again.

And so if we can get through a decentralized form of political lobbying through the local church, then you'll see that the pro-life lobbies, the national pro-life lobby will be less and less effective.

I was just going to say, this really is a grassroots movement. We were just talking about today, I think, right? Someone had messaged us and they were saying they had watched what, a quarter of the film and they were like, it completely turned my whole view on this upside down.

They didn't even finish the film. And I was like, you have to get your pro-life friends and family to watch this. You have to share this. And that's how this works. It's completely grassroots. Share this with everyone that you know of that's going to be affected by this.

That's the great thing.

It's a great thing about this idea we have of platforming. We don't want to talk about someone because we don't want to get... National Right to Life doesn't want to publicly talk about an abortion now.

We know from experience that they've shut us out of conversations.

They've, you know. They said we're not pro-life, we're crazy.

Right, so. But the best, the great thing about that, is that just means there's no competition. Because they're not, like they're not addressing the issues that we're bringing up. Sure. They're just ignoring us.

So this is, this happened with Sega versus Nintendo, right? Nintendo wanted to pretend that Sega wasn't a threat to them in the 90s. And they just completely ignored them. And then by the time they had to respond to them, Sega had like half the retail space in Toys R Us.

Wow. So like that's just, it's just the de-platforming thing doesn't work. So now they're in a tough situation where they have to decide, you know, do we talk about them, do we not, do we continue to ignore them?

And like, you know, if they come at us now, like, you know, that would be great. Yeah. But that's just the situation they've put themselves in, and so, which is great. But also, they can't really address end abortion now, because there's so many churches involved.

You know, like who are they talking about? Right. You know, so they're talking about the entire Protestant Reformed Church.

Right, we're talking about a biblical view of this issue. Right. So that's what you really have to come after. Right. It's not end abortion now. It's not the personalities. It's just Christians. Yeah, right.

That's a good point. Exactly. So they're in a tough spot. Yep. Yeah. You're going to have to come, because what are you going to, let's start the conversation, and we can probably end it here. It's how the film begins with John Speed.

Like, why did they ignore the first film? Because John says we were talking about abortion in terms of it being murder, and that people need to come to Christ in the issue. And I think that that's one of the first topics of conversation that's going to come up if they finally address this.

And they're ultimately going to have to at some point, because of what God is doing through his church. The main thing you're going to have to address there is that first point. Yeah. Is this murder? Yeah.

Yeah. And that's the, babies are still murdered here. That's the distinction, is that this is a biblical perspective, because murder, according to scripture and law, is the unjustified killing of a human being with malice of forethought.

That's murder. And that's what's happening at abortion clinics every single day across this country. And the people who are engaging it are the moms and dads, with malice of forethought killing a human being, and it's unjustified.

And that's what's happening, and that's the industry itself, and the pro-life movement won't ultimately acknowledge it. And that's what we say has to be acknowledged, and that has to be legislated against on the basis of it being murder.

ERLC, Abortion as Murder, and the Call to Watch the Film

But then you have the ERLC, who just posted an article, I don't know if you saw it, did you see it? Came out yesterday. No. Where they try to argue presuppositionally that because women know their sin, they know they're sinners, that we shouldn't address abortion as murder.