Should Christians Vote for President Trump with Dr. Anthony Silvestro

Can you show me because we're going to use some hermeneutics. Can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where that word perpetual is not perpetual? Because, again, I understand you're appealing again.

Sure. No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. God's laws were any of God's laws. Hold on. Wait a minute. I thought I was going to get to have a talk. You asked the question. Hang on a second, sir. Be quiet. OK, well, there you go.

I will mute you because it's not your show. You asked the question. I'm going to give you the answer. Genesis six, four. The word Olam is used referring to those who are of old Deuteronomy. I'll just rattle off all the ones where it's used, not referring to perpetual Genesis six, four, Deuteronomy, 32, seven, Joshua, 24, to first Samuel, 27, eight Job, 22, 15, Psalm 24, 24, 7, 24, 9, 25, 6, 41, 13, 77, 990, verse two, 103, verse 17, 106, verse 48, 119, 52, 143, verse three, Proverbs 8, 23, Proverbs 22, 28, Proverbs 23, 10, and Ecclesiastes 110.

Should I go on for more?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is apologetics live to answer your questions. Your host from striving for eternity ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

All right. Well, welcome. We are live apologetics live Thursday nights to answer your apologetics questions, anything that you may have for us apologetically challenges questions. Maybe someone gave you something that was a difficult for you to answer.

This is the place for you to ask that. Now tonight we're going to try to do something, but Dr. Sylvester is having trouble like hearing me. And so he probably enjoys that fact. But then again, if that's the case, we just want to add him in.

And then I get to enjoy that fact. Well, we'll see. We I'm guessing from him and laughing. I see him in the lower screen. He's laughing. So I'm going to guess that he can hear me.

But we'll we'll soon find out.

So apologetics live is a ministry striving for eternity. Well, I encourage you guys to go to striving for eternity dot org to check out all the resources that we have there. It is also a podcast that you could hear on the Christian podcast community, which also is a ministry of striving for eternity.

The Topic of Voting for Trump and Christian Political Responsibility

So tonight's topic is going to be the topic of should Christians vote for Trump? Now this should be lots of fireworks. So I'm going to let, let Anthony Sylvester take all the fireworks, but he figured, he figured he would bring help in.

So I guess, I guess he feels inadequate to the task. And, you know, I don't know if I should refer to him as Dr. Luke or Sean, but but I'll bring you both in Sean, you're, you'd be new to folks here. So why don't you introduce yourself and maybe you could explain why I called you Dr. Luke, but, but go for it.

Oh, wait, we're not hearing you at all. Hold on. I got to unmute you because there we go. Now try. No, we're still not hearing you now. Oh, this will be really good. Let's see. Now I know. Did you mute yourself too?

Okay. Anthony, can you hear, and I can't hear either one of you. All right. Folks that are watching, let me know if you can hear them. As I double check my settings, we're able to hear them earlier. So no one can hear.

No one can hear. Okay. I just heard some noise. Um, I didn't hear voices now. Oh, now I hear, I hear Anthony now. All right, Sean, let's get you working again.

You know, with this soundboard, this is the first time I've been on a stream yard and it's different. You have to, the settings you have to pick are the internal microphone built in and headphones built in.

Even though I'm using the soundboard.

It wasn't like that for the previous platform. You can hear us, nod your head up and down. Okay. So we can't hear you. So let's try having, try leaving this either. Check your settings, uh, go to the cam.

This is the great part of doing live streams, right? Go to the little gear icon on the bottom. Check that your, um, your mic and speaker are set up, right?

Yeah. Go to the audio and check out the, um, there's usually a couple of different, uh, things there. Internal microphones are works with my soundboard here. Yeah. Well, we got to get you set up, right?

All right. So we're going to wait. I heard something that was from Sean. No. So Sean, if, if not try, try leaving the studio and then coming back in. Um, so meanwhile, the, the intro that you guys heard for those who are going to have to wait to see if Sean, uh, he may have to come out and come in.

Um, I'll add them back in. Okay. Sean, is that working now? No. Sean, try, try, uh, closing the window down the, the, uh, that tab in your browser and then go back in through the link. So love to do technical stuff live.

All right. So if you heard that intro, that intro is from a last week's apologetics live. That was a great intro. If you listened, uh, if you did not listen to last week's apologetics live, you'd want to listen to that.

Uh, Jim there also known as Mr. Batman. That's how he came in as, uh, was going to use hermeneutics as he liked to say. But the one thing he failed to do was actually use any hermeneutics. Um, and so Donnie saying he's getting a echo and it's probably from your computer, Anthony, since your, your, your setup is not going through the, the mic.

Right. So let's see if Sean comes in.

Technical Setup and Last Week’s Hermeneutics Debate

Would not let me use my headphones. There we go. Now I hear you. Yeah. For some reason. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. For some reason, when I plugged my headphones in, it muted, uh, everything else. Oh, nice.

Okay.

How about that? Oh, we can hear you now, Anthony. Can you hear me now? I can. Yeah.

All right. Good. Finally, we can get started. Good. I had to go, I had to go out and come back in, I guess. Okay. Good. Yeah. All right.

That's good. It's all, it's, it's good. You know, good 10 minutes of the show.

That's, that's a way to kill some time. Yeah.

All right. Well, maybe we'll edit that out. So if you heard the intro there, um, and, and Sean might've been able to hear while Anthony was having his technical issues, but, uh, that was a great example.

If you listen last week to a guy who claims he was going to use hermeneutics and that's the very thing he didn't use and, uh, didn't like being, um, uh, shown how hermeneutics actually works. Um, he, he, but it last week's episode will be a good one for those of you who want to see how to deal with a theme role or someone who's just going to just.

Go over, just try to ignore everything you say. They're not there to learn. They're there to challenge and to, uh, really to attack. So, uh, I encourage you to go to last week's episode and check that out.

That was on, uh, dealing with Hebrew roots movement and it's ilk, uh, the, the author of the book, Torah ism. So with that, this week, we're going to talk about should Christians vote for Trump? Uh, this was Dr. Silvestro's brainchild.

So we'll blame him if this doesn't go well, it's all his fault. If it, if it does go well, it is all because he invited Sean here. That's, that's, that's how this is going to go. So Sean, uh, since you're new, so Dr. Silvestro is a speaker at Striving for Eternity.

I think many of the regular listeners here are familiar with him. Uh, but Sean, you're a new face. So how about you introduce yourself and, and you know, what you do ministry wise? Sure. Thanks.

Thanks for having me guys. I appreciate your guys' work. You guys do some excellent work in the Lord. I just want to commend you guys for, for that. Um, Dr. Luke, that's just my radio handle. I am the host of the Word for America program on Grace Life Radio.

Um, those on, on this channel probably have no idea what that is, but, uh, you can check that out too, it's Grace Life Radio and, uh, my name is Sean Wall. I'm actually a physician assistant. So I'm a PA, so I'm not a medical doctor, but I'm a PA and, uh, that we go with.

Obviously most Christians understand the handle of Dr. Luke as the physician. So there you go.

Christians Know Politics Better Than the Gospel

Quick, quick, quick roundabout. All right. So, um, let, let's deal with this, Anthony. I don't know if you have an opening, but I, I will put in the show notes later. Uh, I have an article that usually around this time of year gets me the most heat.

Um, that's on striving fraternities website on Christians and political activism. Um, here's one thing I'll, I'll put as a caveat and the one line in that paper that gets me in the most trouble. And I don't think knowing the two gentlemen that we have on that they're going to disagree with it.

But, um, what frustrates me is when professing believers seem to know the Republican party's message and very willing to share that, but they don't quite know the gospel message and they're not willing to share that.

It's Christians. We better be sharing the gospel message way more than the political message, in my opinion. And I'm sure someone will come in and maybe disagree with me, but, but, uh, Anthony, I'm going to, I'm going to give you the floor to start us off.

And I see we already got some folks coming in here. So go.

You know, this started because of, uh, the first time Trump ran, you know, sort of looking at four years ago now. And I remember that there was a lot of Christians who would say that they couldn't vote for the, for Trump, a guy like Trump who was immoral and had sexual trists and all the different stuff that is in his background.

And so people kept saying, yeah, there's, there's no way. No, actually it was, it was four years ago, Andrew, I see your, your comment there and had to be four years ago because it was during the election cycle where people were saying that.

And we're in the election cycle right now. Um, so, so four years ago, it was, people were saying all these things about Trump that they didn't want to vote for Trump because they had problems with his, with his background.

And instead they wanted to vote for a third party candidate who, you know, the guy named Tom Hoefling seems like a nice guy. And a lot of people were getting back behind him now, granted, he couldn't win much of the vote.

What's that? I don't, I don't know that name. Who is he? Oh, yeah. I mean, you've heard that. Sean, right. He, he, he, he almost, right. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, Tom Hoefling, H O E F L A N G. So people got behind him because he and his wife were activists, um, in the pro life movements and, and, uh, Tom Hoefling is a professing Christian.

What is really interesting as an aside and all this is that, um, I started doing some digging, um, in who he was because you had a lot of Christians saying they would not vote for Trump. Now, look, I, here's, I'm going to start right off the bat saying, do I believe that Trump displays a good moral character?

Well, no, of course not. Um, and he doesn't seem to be repentant, um, biblical repentant anyway, in terms of a lot of his past. And the argument that I was making four years ago is that we aren't voting for a pastor.

We are voting for a politician. And in my belief, my central core is that I believe we were supposed to vote for the guy who is closest to the Christian worldview, even if both candidates seem very far apart, um, from the Christian worldview.

And in, in using that as, as kind of my starting point and all this, and there's good reasons for that. And I think that will come out during the show today. Um, I did research Tom Hoefling because one of the problems that I had is when people said they couldn't vote for Trump, I would say, okay, well, who are you going to vote for?

Tom Hoefling was one. Other people would say, well, I don't know, or I'm just not going to vote. And, and I would ask, well, why? And they said, well, we, I would only vote for somebody who's godly and okay, that's fine, vote for somebody godly.

Give me a definition for godly. And this is the struggle, right? I mean, the same reason when we go out and we do witnessing and 99 of people that we talk to, unbelievers that we talk to that say, um, that we ask them, are you going to go to heaven when you die?

And they say, yes. What is the number one reason they say that they're going to go to heaven? It's because they do good things or good works, or I'm a good person or, you know, something of that sort.

So they are invoking a standard of, of good and bad. Um, the problem is it's their own standard. It's not the standard of the Bible, right? So we have God's standard of good, which is himself, which is perfect.

And then, you know, everything that falls short of that. So the same Christians who look are wonderful people, they are wonderful gospel proclaimers on the streets. A lot of them, um, a lot of them share the gospel faithfully.

They understand this context when it comes to God and his goodness. But yet when they look at political candidates and they come up with this idea of godly, what's the definition now? Because if you're using a definition of godly in a biblical sense, the way that they use it in every other context of their life, then the only person you can ever vote for is Jesus Christ.

And if it's not Jesus, then you can't vote for anybody. And of course that's silly. They don't actually believe that they, they just, they believe that it has to be somebody of some moral character to which I say, okay, what is that moral character?

Give me some type of, of, of, uh, of criteria that gives us a good moral character, somebody that's good enough to vote for, and that's something that everybody had failed to do. What I found interesting is when I started doing some digging in Tom Hoefling, I want to know who he was.

That, uh, it didn't take very long for me to look past him, but look at his wife's Facebook and some of her social media stuff and his wife is not a Christian, his wife is a Mormon. And I, and a few other guys I told this to all, we all saw the page and we all saw it on Facebook, saw it on, on the internet and each one of us reached out to Tom and asked him if this is true, is your wife a Mormon because you're proclaiming that you and your wife are Christians and are, and are, and are trying to garner Christian votes.

And, uh, and what happened after that, he didn't respond to any of us and then his wife's Facebook got completely wiped. So if you go on his, and I just did this a few days ago, actually, if you go on his wife's Facebook page, um, you will find that it, it starts somewhere in 2017, so it was actually wiped, um, when I brought it up and then even stuff a little bit after that got wiped or she just didn't go back on Facebook again for a little while.

So there's only a couple of years of history there now where there was a lot much longer history. So, and look, Tom may be a Christian himself, but his wife is certainly not. And so I brought this up to you guys and said, guys, you're voting for somebody who's actually married to a Mormon.

Um, would you call that godly? And, and, and it was, it was with that, that people didn't want to have the conversations anymore. And, you know, Andrew, we both talked about this, um, during this time.

And I know you felt the same way I did. And there was a lot of other people that did too. They were afraid to say anything publicly because they would just get blasted on, on, uh, on Facebook over this.

And then shortly after we had talked about this and I talked about this on a different podcast, uh, we saw John McArthur come out and say virtually the same thing. We saw, um, um, uh, I can't believe I forgot the name now.

Um, that is because John McArthur follows you on social media. Well, I guess I, yeah. I mean, I said it first.

Forgive Anthony for his Joe Biden moment. I don't want to be at work today.

Not in the office, but we'll call him sleepy Anthony. Well, what you, one thing you will not find is me with my face puckering up to anybody behind him other than my wife. Wayne Grudem is the other name that I was, uh, I was thinking about Wayne Grudem came out about the same time as, as John McArthur did.

Um, and then, you know, other guys were coming out and saying the exact same thing. So, so I, I'm going to leave that as kind of the starting point. I've got a lot of us, a lot more things to say over the next hour and a half, but I don't know if you wanted to chime in, Sean, on, on this.

Cause so I want, I invited you to come on because I see how politically you are. And, uh, and, uh, you know, you are, you are a guy that I, I, and maybe it's just because we probably think alike, but you, you, you think, I think very clearly you are very logical and you have a funny sense of humor that I just love on Facebook.

So, uh,.

Moral Character, Mitt Romney, and Why Christians Talk Politics More Than the Gospel

I would like to say my wife, my, my wife believes all of those things too, but it's probably not the case. Um, but, but, but, but what I would say you're right on point with it, with the hoffling issue and the whole there, there is hypocrisy even amongst the evangelicals when we, you know, when we want to dump Trump, you have to remember that was the, that was the mantra, uh, that was being said and running around, running rampant when Trump was starting to gain some momentum.

But if you just go back four years prior to that in 2012, who was our primary choice, Mitt Romney, um, who was an, who was a Mormon and those same evangelicals. And I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but many of them who wanted to dump Trump, those same exact evangelicals had zero problem with casting that vote for Mitt Romney in 2012, didn't bat an eye.

And they were in all of a sudden in 2016, uh, were all over Donald Trump for his, his moral failings. What they were doing is they were looking at the moral characteristics and you, both, both of you guys know that professing evangelicals will put theology to the wayside when it comes to those types of issues.

And I'm not saying that we're going to vote for a pastor in chief because we're not, uh, we're, we're voting for someone who is to lead our country, uh, and if I were voting for Donald Trump as a pastor, I would not, I would not cast my vote.

He is, he is, he is not, he has difficult qualifications for an elder. So I'll be the first one to say that as too, and Anthony, you said that in a different way, um, but it's the exact same thing. So, and, um, Andrew, when you came on the show, you had, you had made the point about we have no trouble with basically proselytizing our political views, but we have trouble proselytizing and being evangelicals or being witnesses for the gospel.

And I will answer your question. And you guys know this as good as I do. People will, will shout from the mount, mountaintops, mostly what they know. And if evangelicals are more interested in, in talking partisan politics rather than the gospel, it's because they know partisan politics better than they know the gospel.

And, and when I say partisan politics, that's what I mean, because all they know is the partisan talking points. They don't know both sides. They can't make an argument for both sides. If you remember, and I know if you guys in 2016, um, one of the libertarian candidates and I'm, and I've got a Joe Biden moment because I can't remember his name cause he was irrelevant, but nonetheless, he actually, they asked him about Aleppo and he had no clue where Aleppo was, he had no, he was running for president of the United States and he, he didn't have, had any clue about geography in the Middle East.

So again, we have to understand and know the things that we're going to talk about before we can talk about them. We have to know what we believe. We got to know why we believe it. And if we don't, if we don't know those things, we can't effectively communicate those things with others.

Why Christians Should Vote and the Role of Government

Yeah. And I think, I mean, one of the things is, okay, here's just a general question we can ask anyone today, right today, right now, the things we're dealing with, with this virus and stuff. Are we not very glad that Hillary Clinton lost?

I mean, could you picture what this would be like if we had Hillary Clinton in the White House right now?

That would be scary. Everybody, everybody would be mandated to wear pantsuits.

Well, no, basically they would, if there was a Democrat right now, they would be looking to take over the, the completely take over the, the government to have government control of everything. Okay. Um, you, you know, Sean, you kind of swerved in son that I always say is I'm voting for president, not pastor.

There's a big difference between those two. Um, you know, and everyone talks about the morality of, of, you know, now let me take it from the left. They always talk about the morality of Trump. They're the ones that bring this up.

And then there are a bunch of Christians that go, oh yeah, I can't vote for him because his morality. But yet what about the morality of Bill Clinton? They defended that. And, and let's compare those two.

I mean, I'm sorry, but Trump is not a moral guy. Granted. All right. Multiple affairs, but he also gets the women to sign nondisclosure agreements. We now know that, I mean, that doesn't, that is very different than, you know, Clinton, who it's like, oh, there's a woman in a skirt.

Let me go after her. And, and someone who goes, wait, first, I'm going to give you this legal document to sign. I mean, there, the, the characterization that they made of Trump, that he chases after everyone and sleeps with anyone that kind of, it's like, it doesn't seem to be the case.

He does sleep around, but I just noticed how with one party that it's like, oh, well, we're going to, we're going to bring it out when Trump does it. I mean, it's been a while since they had a president on the Republican side that they could say chases after women because they've usually been way too old or something, but even Trump's too old, but, but, but the thing that you end up seeing is.

You look at Biden in the me too movement. I mean, like Anthony, you're joking about it, but seriously, do we, do we actually expect that Biden's morality and his inappropriate touching and the way he, he handles is around and with women, do we really going to say and expect that the media is just going to go, oh yeah, that's, that's fine.

It's just, we're going to talk about Trump's so there we have to understand me, one of the things that we have to understand with it is there is a narrative that the left would like Christians to say they, they're, they're the ones that bring up Trump's immorality so often.

And I think there's, it's purposeful. They, they want to under undermine the vote for him. And I think a lot of Christians look at this and go, oh yeah, yeah. We shouldn't be supporting him. Um, and like you said, Anthony, they're, they're going to go support someone because he's a Christian and then maybe find out he's not, he just speaks like a Christian, like, uh, you know, um, Glenn Beck would do right.

And, and actually be Mormon. So the thing is, is I think there's different, uh, different qualifications for pastor than there are for president president, you have someone that's a governing factor. You want someone who can govern well.

And I think, I think that Trump has done that. I actually think many Christians who have told me I didn't vote for Trump the first time, but I'm going to now based on his governing.

Why Vote at All? The Duty to Vote Under a Constitutional Government

So, okay. So you're, you're touching upon an interesting thing. So let me ask both of you guys this question. Why vote? Why, why? Cause I believe that a Christian has a duty and a responsibility to vote.

So why is that? Why should we vote? Cause then if we have to vote, then we have to either vote for the lesser two evils or find a third party candidate. Although that that's a whole different topic to talk about here.

Because the issues that that brings up, um, uh, on the inability to win and whatnot. But so, so let's just start there.

Um, why vote? Well, can I, I'll jump in here. I'm pro I'm probably going to go maybe a little bit, um, a little bit deeper than the, than the questions you're asking, but, but we have to, you know, where, where, where do we start from?

You know, the question would be, am I a theonomist or am I not? Is that fair enough? I mean, a lot, a lot, listen, but Hey, that's, but that's going to be a starting point for some people, granted, granted, very few people, but your starting point should be there.

So let's take theonomy off the table and let's say, and then we'll ask the question, if you're not a theonomist, why is it, why should you vote?

And can I stop for just a moment, Sean? Go ahead. Yeah, sure. And I just want to say what is interesting is now, granted, we all live in a small bubble or either for foreign guys, at least in sociology.

Right. So, um, it's, this is certainly not indicative of Christianity in general. However, you hit on a subject because most of the people that have made the claims that they can't vote for somebody that's moral or that's immoral, right.

In their minds are theonomists. That is, it is almost always the case. So I'm sorry. I will let you keep going now.

No, no. And that's why I said, that's kind of where your starting point would be, but none, but none, nonetheless, you know, Romans 13, right. You know, we, that's where we go. When we're talking about the Bible and we're talking about running these types of things through a Christian worldview, Romans 13 tells us what, what is the role of government is to protect us.

Right. And the government, you know, God has instituted us and us three, we are blessed to have been sovereignly placed in the United States of America, where we have that right, where we have that ability to go and vote, he could have sovereignly placed us in Iran.

Fair enough. And, and if we were sovereignly placed in Iran, could any of, could any of the three of us cast a vote in a democratic world? No. So the, so I answered, so I go to, look, God has placed all three of us here in the United States of America.

He has placed us under the rule of a government because we are under that government, whether we like it or not. Donald Trump's our president, right? You know, the silly shirts you see, not my brain. That's the dumbest thing.

Barack Obama was my president. Hey, and I will say this too. Look, I'm a captain of the United States army.

You Sean, if you had a shirt that said, Barack Obama's not my president, what.

Would they have said to you if you did that in the army, if you were walking.

Around on the streets with a shirt that said, Barack Obama's not my president.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here. Um, I would, I would, uh, you would have long had my, my eulogy would have been read, but so, so back, you know, so back to my point, God has sovereignly placed us in, in a country where we have a democracy, where the government, the constitution has given us the right, you know, given us the right to vote.

Therefore we, I believe we are obligated to vote because God has placed us under that governance, uh, to vote and who we vote for, you've got every right to vote for anybody you wish you can do, or you can write in Mickey mouse.

You can do anything you want, but at the bottom line, and we always, this always comes down to the issues every four years and in the, you know, with the primaries of this obviously is an uncontested election for the, for, for the conservatives, but we essentially have a two party system, whether you like it or not, that, that is the way that it is.

That is the way that the power in politics has, has shaped this country. And you are going to get one of two people elected president. It's either going to be someone from the democratic party, or it's going to be somebody from the Republican party.

You can vote libertarian all you like. You can vote. Um, you can vote, um, any other party that you like. There's a whole host of them out there. The fact of the matter is, is that one of the two major parties are going to be the president of the United States.

That's fact that's real. That's facts.

Um, that's just the way that it is. Yeah, that's right. You know, and it's funny when you say that because guys that, uh, the guys that aren't happy about that, I tell them, Hey, you got a solution. You know, that solution is called grassroots campaign.

Find a candidate that you, that you think is going to be that godly candidate that you want and, and do the grassroots campaign. I mean, look, the models out there, right. AHA did a wonderful job of going around and, uh, you know, beating down churches and beating down churches.

They weren't ending abortion. They were right. They were doing everything, but, but, but, but the point is, is that those guys are not, not to get AHA stuff involved now, but, but, you know, those guys have been really, um, they try to be very political and now you've got the theonomists, um, and those that have joined forces AHA.

And that's, again, this is a whole different topic. We could spend hours on, um, they, they collectively say that they don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils that they can't bring themselves to that, and yet they have no problem standing anywhere at a state capital trying to influence politicians and influence what their votes are going to be.

To me, it seems like what's that? It's an odd dynamic. Yeah. Isn't it? So I'm like, if you had this type of energy, why don't you raise that candidate you believe you have take all the energy that you've used in, you know, going and beating down churches and everything else you're doing and, and get these guys known by Christians and get them elected, they're not doing that kind of stuff.

So, yeah, I, I don't know. I find this whole thing really interesting. Okay. So let's, and I know Donnie was in here. We'll bring him in a, in a moment, but here's, here's my first question for you. You brought up this, this, and it's actually an ethic.

Okay. The lesser of two evils. So let's address that because there's some people who say it is wrong to vote for the lesser of two evils that we are to vote for a godly candidate. Um, so let me ask you guys both to address this issue.

What is wrong or right with voting for the lesser of two evils? What's, what's your positions?

Uh, Sean, I'll let you go first. Well, I can't, can I just quote Spurgeon? Absolutely.

Um, no, no. Christians are not allowed to quote Spurgeon, you know, seriously.

Well, I will actually, I'm actually, I'm going to quote Spurgeon, but I disagree with Spurgeon because he says, he says, when it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils, he says, choose none. That, that was, that's, that is what Spurgeon's take on that.

But again, Spurgeon was where Spurgeon lived, where.

Well, he lived in England and yeah, he did it right.

So he was talking, well, this always comes up when a lot of Christians will quote this. You guys may not have heard this, but in the, you know, when I talk about politics a lot, some Christians will quote that Spurgeon was not talking about politics when he said that he was talking about sin.

When it comes to that, he was talking about a comparison of sin and choosing neither of those, he was not talking about politics. Um, so that is, that is, that is not the, I think I kind of had already made my statement about choosing, you know, choosing not the lesser of two evils.

We have to really choose a party. And you've heard this, this is, this is over and over. You choose a, people will say they're, they're voting for the man, they're voting for the party, or they're voting for the platform, which is essentially the party, and usually you're voting for the party and the platform because the men or the women in these, you know, in these last few elections, they're basically figure heads of the platforms.

Donald Trump was different. He was not the same. He was not, he was not a platform. Nobody knew about Donald Trump. Nobody even knew. I mean, let's face it. When Donald Trump's, when he spoke at his rallies, even when he speaks today, except when he has the speechwriters, he's very vague.

He uses the same terminology over a very simple first, second grade terminology. Tremendous, great, bigly, things like that. And he resonates with, with most of the American people by saying nothing. And I mean, Barack Obama done the same thing.

He just done it more eloquently than Donald Trump. You go back and look at their primary speeches and I'm telling you, they would say, Obama would say a lot to say nothing. Donald Trump would say little to say nothing.

So it's really a platform and we know what the platform is. The left, they're, they're, they're big issues, gay marriage, you know, pro, pro abortion, and then you've got the antithesis of that on the other side.

Socialism, they're moving more and more towards socialism on the other side. And then everything opposite of that on the right.

That's right. Yeah. And so for me, you know, to answer the question, I don't, I don't actually like the phrase lesser to evils because I don't believe that that's what we're doing. I, and so the phrase I like to use when I used earlier, which is we are voting for the one that is closest to the Christian worldview.

And, uh, and I think one of the keys, hold on, let me, let me just tweak that a bit because, because we'll hear your cause, cause they would end up saying that you should have voted for Tom then. But it's, it's the, you're voting for the best choice out of the choices that can.

Win, that can win that that's correct.

That's really how we, you know, they, they want to turn it. And this is the thing that the challenge of the lesser evils already puts you on the negative. It puts you on the defensive as if neither one are actually good.