Two Dangerous Spirits In The Church Today — Sandeep Poonen

Discerning Spirits and the Power of Christ

So, I want to share a couple of thoughts on discerning spirits. There are all kinds of spirits that are in the world. Most of which we probably don't even need to worry about. Because we are in Christ.

And the smallest, youngest child of God has power over all the demon forces.

It's that simple. Anyone who has Christ in them, greater is he who is in you. Then he who is in you is greater. But we have to establish ourselves in God's Word. But the problem is that many of us don't stop there.

We also want a lot of different things. We have two different mindsets. And we don't just want Christ. If you are younger in faith, it's easier to find that.

Then we only want Christ. Sincerely and simply.

Maybe in a somewhat immature way, but sincerely. But then there are things that can stifle the Word of God. And so we go from worldly minded to spiritual minded. From loving God to loving God.

But then what happens is that it gets mixed in. And then it gets the worst of all, which is called religious spirits. And that's what we in the Church have to be most worried about. I'm not worried about the spirits that are out there in the world.

Liberal agendas, political agendas. Very worried about religious agendas. Religious spirits. Every great country has always been corrupted from within more than from without. And God's churches have never been hurt by persecution.

Because the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church. But prosperity, corruption, from within, hurts the Church more than anything else.

So I want to talk about two things in the spirit of the Spirit within us that can kill Jesus Christ.

And so I want to share two things with you from the spirit that can live within us that can stifle Jesus Christ or kill Him in our lives. It is good to realize that in the time of Lord Jesus, the ones that Jesus wanted to kill the most were the most Bible believing people in the world.

But those were the people that Jesus wanted to kill. The Pharisees. That was so strong that Jesus said, do everything they tell you to do. Imagine that Lord Jesus is saying that about a group of people.

But don't be like them. They study the right scriptures. But they had a completely different goal with that. They went so far with that that even the heathen Pilate said, you don't have to kill Jesus.

But they said, yes, He has to die. And that is how powerful the power of a religious spirit can be. Reading the scriptures. Doing a lot of religious activity.

That even the heathen, evil Pontius Pilate looks good compared to the rest of them.

Pontius Pilate wasn't a good man if you read history.

He was a typical evil Roman governor. Of that time. But compared to the Pharisees he looks good. The power of the religious spirit. We must constantly remember that. So would you like to know how to discern the Pontius Pilate spirit or do you want to know how to discern the Pharisees religious spirit?

I'm not trying to justify the Pontius Pilate but I'm much more worried about the religious spirit.

I'm not trying to justify the Pontius Pilate but I'm much more worried about the religious spirit. There are two aspects of the Pharisees spirit that I want to talk about with you. I want to show you a verse in Matthew chapter 27.

The Religious Spirit That Quotes Scripture Against Christ

This is Jesus on the cross. Verse 41 -43. Matthew 27. 41 -43. Everybody is making fun of Jesus. The people who are passing by are wagging their heads saying, oh you claim to be a big person, look at you now.

Look, but verse 41 says the chief priests are also joining in. But here's what they say which is different. In verse 43 they even quote scripture. He trusts in God, let God rescue him now if he delights in Him.

A quote from Psalm 22. They are quoting scripture to Jesus on the cross.

Can you believe it? We know who is the good guy here.

They are quoting scripture to Jesus on the cross.

Look at what they say here in verse 42. He is the king of Israel.

Let him come now down from the cross and we will believe him. Can you believe it? The Pharisees were saying we are this close to believing Jesus. All we want him is to come down from the cross. We know Jesus didn't buy that argument one bit.

But we know Jesus wasn't sensitive to that argument. This is the religious spirit which on the one hand can kill Jesus and on the other hand continues to quote scripture to Jesus. My impression is that this is more serious than a demonic spirit.

Because we can see a demonic spirit and that stands out. It possesses a person and almost leaves them out of control. A religious spirit quotes scripture. As they are crucifying Jesus.

This is a spirit that we see in the Pharisees, Matthew chapter 12.

The Pharisees’ Demand for Signs

They long for a sign.

Beware of a church or beware of a Christian.

And be careful with a Christian or a church that is looking for signs.

Oh I went to this church because somebody got raised from the dead. I am going to this church because everybody falls down when somebody touches them.

Oh this person lays their hand and the sick are healed.

We humans are so caught up with signs. The Pharisees are the people who wanted a sign. And Jesus said it is an evil and perverse group of people who look for signs. That is Matthew chapter 12. If you want to go there I can show it to you real quick.

Matthew chapter 12 verse 38 and 39. Because the Pharisees said please show us a sign. An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. So we must be aware of any sign. Of a sign saying that is where God is.

And people who say if there is a sign then God is there. Matthew chapter 7. Maybe you know this verse. Many will say to me on that day. Gentlemen, didn't we do all these things in your name? Dear brothers and sisters I have a question for you.

Don't take this too literally. What if Christian was to fall down and die right now? And what if I were to raise him from the dead? Will you all listen to me more now? Ask yourself. Why? Because I showed you a sign?

Many will come on the last day saying did we not raise the dead? Do miracles in your name. Will you believe me more if I raise somebody from the dead right now? And I can ask myself and judge myself and say Lord the spirit of the Pharisees is very close to me then.

I am in the same boat as you are.

If he raised me from the dead I am going to be listening to him a lot more.

But that is how dangerous the religious spirit is. And if I am not aware of it I will fall for it. Jesus said many will come, not a few. And Jesus said I don't even know you.

You who commit lawlessness. I am not surprised at all when major leaders say I don't even know you. I just suddenly find that exposed for falling into some sin. Because I am not impressed by signs.

I am not impressed by numbers. I am impressed by humility. I am impressed by people who are trying to go down not up.

By people who are trying to go to a zero so that Jesus could be a hundred. I am looking at my hero Jesus who said I came to be a servant. So if I am keeping on looking at Jesus I am more and more impressed by people who serve.

Not people who are being served.

I have to change my eyes to be tuned to the right Jesus.

Who considered it no problem at all to die on a cross naked. Who considered it no problem to be the one who served everybody else. He must be my hero. So when my hero says it is an evil and adulterous generation that looks for a sign, I take it seriously.

If I play the guitar and I had a hero play the guitar saying don't play it like that, I will take it seriously.

But my hero says now an evil and adulterous generation is looking for a sign. But everything in me is under the impression of signs. Then it is necessary that I and that we all fight that spirit.

To be thoroughly unimpressed with signs. Thomas came to Jesus and said I need a sign. I need to feel the body. I need to feel the holes.

What did Jesus say? Do you need to feel the holes to believe? Blessed are you. If you don't see and yet believe.

Rejoicing in Heaven Rather Than in Miracles

Luke chapter 10. Here is the final answer to those who want signs. Luke chapter 10 verse 17. Jesus gave the power to 70 of his disciples to cast out demons. At the beginning of Luke chapter 10. And then Luke chapter 10 verse 17.

These 70 returned full of joy saying even the demons are subject to us in your name. And Jesus said thou shalt not.

What did he say thou shalt not do? What did he say thou shalt not do?

Verse 20. Do not rejoice that demons are subject to you in my name.

When the Lord Jesus says thou shalt not. Or when it is written in the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not. Then we take it very seriously. But here it is also written thou shalt not. From the Lord Jesus.

How seriously do we take that? Thou shalt not rejoice or be happy about it when someone casts out demons. What are you rejoicing about?

That your name is written in heaven.

That is what protects us from this seduction of signs. That is what I get from this verse.

Do not be seduced by signs. Be rejoicing that your name is recorded in heaven. My name. You know all that goes on with my name. You have no idea. You do not know all the sins I have committed. You do not know all the filth I watched.

You do not know all the filth I have said.

You do not know all the filth I have seen. And thought. And evil I have done. You have no idea.

I do. So when Jesus says your name is recorded in heaven. Christ's name recorded in heaven. I get that. My name. What is my name being recorded in heaven? What is that my name doing in heaven? What is your name doing in heaven?

What business has my name and your name being recorded in heaven?

Have we ever thought about that? This is what we ought to meditate on.

Because God is saying that is where your joy comes in. That is the secret to joy. Do not get seduced by signs. Forget healing the sick or raising the dead. What about casting out demons? Jesus said thou shalt not.

Do not ever do that. It is a very spiritual thing to cast out demons.

But do not rejoice over it.

Joy comes out of the fact that your name is in heaven. That God looks at you and says justified. Fully righteous. That is the only way my name can get to heaven. Despite all the things that I have done wrong.

If somehow God can say Sandeep is nonetheless justified or fully righteous.

Same with you. That is where our joy comes from. That is what I mentioned yesterday.

Sorry, earlier today. The blood of Jesus in the words of the text is the blood that justifies us. Our ability to have our name recorded in heaven. Our ability to crawl onto the Father's lap is all because Jesus justifies us.

Our ability to approach God and to be on His lap is all because Jesus justifies us.

Then we will have a loyalty to Jesus alone.

Not to a system. Not to signs. The other extreme of signs is intellectualism.

I find that in my own experience.

I find that in my own life.

I find that in college students a lot that I have worked with. And young people. When I go to college campuses. I usually find two kinds of sincere Christians. The sincere Christians who love the great music concerts and the signs and the charismatic trend.

And the other people also like some of the good music. But they really like the intellectual ideas and the arguments of different theological ideas.

You find a lot of nominal Christians who are not interested in either one.

They and I don't have much interest to talk about. But these two other groups do. Who are passionate about devotion to the Lord, adoration to the Lord, but are caught up with signs. And worship experiences.

And then you have the other group who are more driven by a lot of ideas and theological ideas and intellectual ideas.

And then you have the other group who are more driven by a lot of ideas and theological ideas and intellectual ideas.

And both secretly look down on the other. But I have not defined life in either extreme. I have definitely tried to take my time to study the Bible. I enjoy music. I enjoy the arts, pictures, good pictures that draw us towards Christ.

I urge young people to ask lots of questions. But I also see the spirit of a Pharisee getting too caught up with them too. In John chapter 5 verse 39 you see this also the side of the Pharisees.

John chapter 5 verse 39 and 40.

You search the scriptures. Not the postmodern ideas. Not the secular humanist ideas. No, you search the scriptures. Because you think in them you have eternal life. But you are unwilling to come to me.

So it is possible for me to keep searching the scriptures and not... find Jesus. Pharisees did it. Same for us today. It is so plain there. You study the scriptures. You search the scriptures. These people were not fools.

They were studying it deeply. But they were not willing to take all the scriptures and land end up in Jesus. And this is the challenge. I heard the story of a scientist who wanted to find the life that was within a bird.

So you know what he did? He dissected the bird. Did he find the life in the bird?

Pulled apart the wings. Opened up the bones. He looked at all the feathers. Did he find the life in the bird? No, he killed the bird. We can dissect and trisect scripture so much. Going to the Greek and the Hebrew.

I go to the Greek and the Hebrew. Nothing wrong with it. But I can cut up the scripture so much and I never find life.

That is what Jesus was saying here. And there is one reason for that. It says that in the next verse.

Because secretly we want glory from people. We want validation from others. We want to be right. We want to prove them wrong.

Intellectual Knowledge Without Knowing Christ

I spent a lot of time. Building strong intellectual arguments and debating with a lot of people.

But I got more joy in proving them wrong than in finding Christ. When I was a young 20 something I studied apologetics a lot.

And I had a lot of arguments with non-Christian friends.

And I studied it so much that I started winning the arguments too. But you know what I never did?

I never won the soul. I won the argument. But I didn't win the soul. I did cut up the scripture. But I never found life.

I never took them all the way to Jesus. I walked away thinking I crushed that argument. Shows those atheists how to come back at me. Next time they will think twice. Oh goodness the atheists didn't find Christ.

But what did I gain if they didn't find Christ? I just got a little bit more glory.

You search the scriptures because you think you have life. But you don't find Christ because you want the glory that comes from men. And it's really interesting what Jesus says here. You know who is going to accuse them on the final day?

These Pharisees. John chapter 5 verse 45. He says the one who is going to accuse you is Moses. Moses the one who sent the law. You know why Moses is going to accuse them? Because Moses didn't want the glory that came from men.

Even though he only brought the law. When God offered Moses a chance to start his own lineage. From Exodus 32. Twice God offered that. Moses I will kill all of these people and I will start a new race through you.

Moses said no. Because Lord your glory will suffer if these people don't get through. Because you are the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That's it. You are the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

That's it. Your glory will suffer because you are the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not of Abraham, Isaac and Moses. He said no don't put my name there. God would have said maybe the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses.

Moses said no. Keep your people.

I don't want any of the glory. Jesus said that Moses is going to accuse you. He said Lord I want to see your glory. Show me your glory.

I am not interested in science. I am not interested in intellectual ideas and proofs. I want to see your glory.

These are the protections.

Only protections. That we can have against the religious spirits. Dear brothers and sisters, let us not think this spirit is easy to deal with.

The Pharisees studied the scripture more than all of us probably combined. And they crucified Jesus. There is a great longing in us to be satisfied by science.

There is a great longing in us to be satisfied by signs. Dear brothers and sisters, you have to kick the devil when he comes into your heart. There are certain enemies inside of you. Who have pledged allegiance to the devil.

And let me give you some of the warnings of what these enemies do. Inside of us.

They are looking for signs. They are seduced by signs.

That spirit within us, all of us, is an evil and adulterous spirit. And it hangs closer to us the more we read the scriptures. And there is another spirit which is an intellectual bible study spirit. Because the goal of it is just the glory of people.

And so we judge others.

We put other people into categories. All so that we can be the perfectly balanced people. They are too charismatic. They are too legalistic. But we, we have got it right. We have studied the scriptures well.

But do I know Christ? Am I drawing people to Christ?

Is He becoming everything and am I becoming nothing?

Do I have the spirit of Moses? Leave it alone Lord Jesus. Who says, don't make people after my name. But let me see your glory and that is enough for me. We have to recapture that spirit.

That is the protection that for me, the Lord keeps reminding me of. Beware of signs. As any indication. Look for the fruit of humility. And purity. And love. And then seek, hate the glory of people. Don't be so impressed with yourself.

Don't be so impressed with people. Be impressed only with Jesus. And His humility and gentleness. And learn from Him. Make Him your hero. These are the things the Lord keeps reminding me of. And then the Lord says, I don't care what other spirit comes at you.

It may be post-modern today, it may be post-post-modern next week.

I don't know. I just know that I want to fix my eyes on Jesus. And He will protect me. And He will protect me.

Honest Confession and the Word of God

Maybe it is easier if we do it in Dutch. To be honest, sometimes I notice a spirit in my own heart. A family spirit. How do you deal with it? How do you deal with it? To keep it short.

The first thing to realize is that it is in all of us. If you say you are blind, Jesus says, I can help you gain sight. To the Pharisees He said, you don't think you have a problem, so I can't help you.

So the most important thing first is to be honest that it is so close to us.

So the most important thing first is to be honest that it is so close to us. The second is that we don't base ourselves on our sensual powers or on miracles or signs. What should we do instead?

Be rooted and grounded in the Word of God.

You have to know your Bible. But here is how I say you need to know your Bible.

Do you know that there is an expression used in the Bible called a two edged sword? A double edged sword. Do you know where that comes in the Bible? They say Hebrews chapter 4. Hebrews chapter 4 verse 12.

Do you know what it is referring to? The Word of God.

But, there is one other place it also shows up. Revelation chapter 1. Do you know where the double edged sword is there? Coming out of Jesus' mouth.

117 is it? I don't know. Revelation chapter 1 verse 16. Is it 16? It is in mine then.

A double edged sword now coming out of Jesus' mouth. So here is what happens to the sword. The sword goes all the way down to cut between soul and spirit. Cleaning up all the soul is religious. All the religious spirits, the Bible is the one cutting that out.

Scripture separates soulish from spiritual. Hebrews 4 .12 tells me that. Cleans out all the religious spirit inside of me. But the proof of it is it comes out of my mouth as a double edged sword too.

It so consumes my heart. That even my speech. How I talk to my wife.

How I talk to my children. Is like Jesus. The same double edged sword that goes into the heart is coming out of the mouth now. That is my hero Jesus. So that tells me an incredible work of the Word of God done to me as a being.

That my whole being is influenced by the Word of God.

I showed this to the young people earlier. What do you think is going to happen if I drop this pen?

Anybody wants to guess that this pen is going to fall to the ground? If I let go of it. Any doubters in the midst of this? Probably not because you believe in the law of gravity.

You will say that the law of gravity is guaranteed to let the pen drop.

The Bible says heaven and earth will pass away including the law of gravity. It is going to pass away but my words won't pass away.

The Bible says heaven and earth will pass away but my words won't pass away. That is how guaranteed God's Word is. More guaranteed than this pen falling down. What a work God's Word has to do in our hearts.

I don't think a 2 month old baby believes in the law of gravity. I am 47 and I still can't explain the law of gravity. But I believe in it. But do we believe in the word of God? But do we believe in the word of God?

That God's Word is guaranteed. That it is lawful. And that is how we protect ourselves against soulful spirits. And the seduction of emotionalism. And for intellectualism you can overcome that by not seeking the honor of people.

But only seek the glory of God. And the glory of God is seen in how Jesus fell down and died for people. Not by winning discussions and by elevating ourselves in that way. So in all these answers will this answer help you to be more like Jesus?

If I could tell you the exact separation between sovereignty of God and free will.

If I could explain this to you in the next 15 minutes.

Will that finally convince me to crucify my flesh?

No. A lot of people tell me Sandeep you are so blessed to have been taught by Zak Poonen. I am very blessed. But it didn't help me crucify my flesh any better. I had no advantage in that area.

That's the thing we need to do. Give me any secret to help crucify my flesh. And I'm all ears. Crucify that desire to seek glory of man. I'll entertain any question. I'm happy to answer the question. But to me I try to say Lord I want to get to the gas station.

I want to know you as a father. I want to know why you died for me.

I want to crucify my flesh. There's a question that's a bit like a follow up to this question. There are Christians that in a more sincere way seem to occupy themselves with the gifts of the Spirit and with miracles.

What place can these signs have according to you within the body of Christ and in what manner? Maybe the Dutch version. I'll read the second part. There are Christians that in a more sincere way seem to occupy themselves with the gifts of the Spirit and with miracles.

What place can these signs have according to you within the body of Christ and in what manner? Signs can be incredibly useful. In March 2017 I met my wife. And I married her in August of the same year, 2017.

This wasn't an arranged marriage.

How could I get married to her so quickly?

How could she get married to me so quickly? We had godly counsel. But signs helped.

But I didn't let the signs dominate the decision.

The godly counsel was the basis for the decision. I had a friend of mine. A friend of mine came to my house. I won't mention his name.

I said, that woman, wait, isn't she engaged to somebody else?

Yeah, he said yes, but God told me. And this is the proof of my faith. This man was a very devout Christian.

That lady got married to the other man who she was engaged to.

And this man lost his faith. As far as I understand he is no longer a Christian. He had a wrong understanding of God speaking to him.

Signs can be very, very dangerous.

Signs can be very useful at times. Really need good godly counsel.

By people who know God. But here's how I find signs in general to work in the Christian's life.

Usually when God starts to work with somebody, there can be signs that accompany it.

And sometimes God may work in the early days to say, I'm just going to open up my Bible and I'm going to go to a verse and God speaks to me quite uniquely through that.

And that exactly the Bible opens up on the verse and you experience that God speaks to you through that. And I've heard some beautiful stories from that.

Witnesses. But as we mature in Christ, that's not the way God wants to work with us.

God's words to Thomas are very important.

Blessed are you who don't see and yet believe. 2 Corinthians 5, 6 says we walk by faith, not by sight. We walk by faith in God's word, not by our senses driving us. So my five-year-old needs the Lego set to know that I love him.

But it's very dangerous when my 25-year-old son needs the Lego set or the car.

You know that. So I'll buy my five-year-old a Lego set. But I'm working on my five-year-old. That by the time he's 15 or 25, that he doesn't need stuff from me to prove that I love him. I'm for him.

I'll give him everything for him. Not a Lego set. Not one car. All that I have is yours. He doesn't know that right now. The five-year-old doesn't know that. But it's true. It's in my heart. He needs the Lego set right now.

That's all he can understand.

But it's a sad situation when a 25-year-old is still saying, Daddy, I need more stuff from you to prove that you love me. That is what God wants us to mature in the faith. So in the early days, God will give you spiritual Lego sets.

He'll give you some miraculous answers to prayer. I've had people who have been miraculously saved from smoking or drinking. And other things I'm sure you've known in your life.

And other things that were wrong in their lives. But signs are for the immature. And as we mature quickly in Christ. And if you look at the Israelites going to Canaan.

God had given them sign after sign after sign for two years.

Parting the Red Sea. Giving them manna every day. Giving them meat. Bringing water from a rock. Protecting them from Amalekites and others.

Finally, He said, let me show you these giants.

But I'm telling you, I'm with you. I'll help you beat them. But it didn't work.

All those signs asked us. Two years of signs. God was saying, can I finally have you not be so dependent on signs now. Can you just trust my word? And only two out of 600 ,000 could trust His word.

How many? Two out of 600 ,000. Joshua and Caleb. Everybody else saw the sign. Grasshoppers and giants. Joshua and Caleb saw God's word. Dear brothers and sisters, how many signs?

What God's telling me is, I sent my son to die for you.

And I raised him from the dead. And you believe it. And I've sent him your Holy Spirit to live inside of you.

And I've assured you that your sins have been forgiven. And that your future is with me. For all eternity. Will you believe my word or do you need more signs? I hope that gives you a perspective of my heart.

Maturing Beyond Dependence on Signs

So if we get older in our beliefs and we get like adults, you say we should need less signs, correct? As we mature in Christ. Yeah, okay. So what do we head towards then? Do we go to the other side? Do we become more intellectual?

Or where do we head to?

So the question is. Okay, so you want to eventually become an adult in Christ. And you're not looking for signs and also not for that intellectualistic. But how then? How do you grow? What should you be doing?

We don't want to become more intellectual. We want to become more like Jesus.