SRR #46 | NCT, LGBT, Homeschool Public Service Announcements | Which Apologetic Is Biblical?

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I do a podcast. I'm not interested in your podcast. These are these are wolves
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Truth be told that I oftentimes Lay awake at night trying to figure out how I can get rid of wolves in the church
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We are unabashedly Unashamedly Clarkian and so the next few statements that I'm going to make
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I'm probably going to step on all of the Vantillian toes at the same time and This is what we do at simple riff around the radio.
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You know, we are polemical and polarizing Jesus style I would first say that to characterize
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What we do as fashion is itself Fashion, it's not hate.
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It's history. It's not fashion. It's the Bible Jesus said woe to you and men speak well of you for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way
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As opposed to blessed are you when you have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness? It is on we're taking the gloves off.
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It's time to battle All right, yeah, let's
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Let's get this show going. My name is Tim and this is semper from on the radio So today
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I have with me Joseph Rios are one of our co -hosts and Carlos Montijo our other co -hosts and Today's gonna be sort of a catch -all episode.
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This is a last -minute episode. We have a lot of things that we want to address and It's gonna be interesting when this episode gets released, but we are going to Well, first of all, let me let me just give it over to Carlos because He's got some public service announcements.
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And then after that we will hear a Word from our sponsors. So Carlos take it away.
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Yeah, so The theme of the show is going to be apologetics in general, but You know, we've got so much going on here at Semper from on the radio we were talking about the
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Lordship controversy the new covenant theology stuff the You know, like we've got so much going on with the
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Clark Gordon Clark stuff scriptural ism. I mean we have several streams of Themes that we want to pursue apologetics and things like that.
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So we're trying to get everything, you know tie everything together So that being said we haven't had time to address some things that have been kind of piling up so we're gonna try to make that pile go away and we've had a lot of public service announcements that we wanted to to make and one of those is that Andrew at rap report was featured on the theology gals
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Not too long ago doing an episode on dispensationalism and in that episode he made mention of the fact or he claimed rather that covenant theology originated with Thomas Aquinas and That's actually that's that's actually quite wrong and misleading on on two accounts at least
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So the first problem is that he was a sort of equating The threefold division of the law with covenant theology itself and that that would that's like very misleading
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It's that's not even that's not even half of what covenant theology is and the threefold division of the law for one thing is not
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Even exclusive to covenant theology because obviously the Catholic Church Also holds to it.
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There's other people other Christians in the past who have held to it Justin Martyr had a similar view a trifle division of the law as well
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And at several Christians of and I'm pretty sure other denominations have a similar view as well They probably you know, like Methodist or Baptist.
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I'm not exactly sure but I Think it's a fairly common thing and that being said however, he so he claimed that covenant theology was
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Started with Aquinas and and yet By that I guess he meant really he meant the threefold division of the law
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So the the Catholic Church does not at all hold to covenant theology.
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There is no covenant of works There's no covenant of grace redemption. There's none of that stuff. There is no there really is it's not reformed
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I mean the Protestant reform movement came as a reaction to the Catholic Church, which is it's grossly inaccurate to say that so just wanted to clarify that and also
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Going back to the issue of you know, actually that's what I was gonna say if you go back to episode 6
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I think is when we actually talked about That you know the threefold division of the law and how it came from, you know
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Other Christians in the past have held to similar views Augustine also being one of them. He had a similar. He also held to certain distinctions in the law and And And also when we responded to the porch guys
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That's what I was trying to remember when we responded to the porch guys in our in the inner in the two episodes with That were also tied into the interview or the discussion that I had with Lewis Lyons We also dealt with that I think there and with when we answered
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Chris fails his challenge on on, you know on the law And so we've dealt with this Several times, you know people if people have been kind of listening to our shows and keeping track of what we've been talking about We've corrected this we've addressed this issue several times already.
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So any comment on that? No, you've been waiting quite a while to get that out
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Get that chest. So let me let me just back up here. I Believe it was a
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Paul Kaiser was kind of saying that we weren't going to correct Andrew Right, well he was saying that because we've we've called the porch guys out on that for making that similar claim and But I assured him
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I assured him that we were going to get around to it It's just there's there's only so much time in the day for us to to get to these things
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So we we didn't want to disappoint and here it is. So that's your first public service announcement
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On that, you know, it's funny because One of the one of the pastors in my church is a progressive dispensational
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Which is the closest thing that I personally subscribe to and and he was and he was talking about how there isn't one
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There's a threefold division of the law But he had a really hard time dealing with the same verse that I posed to The New Covenant theology guys, which was the which was
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Psalm 119 160 right so the some of the some of your word is truth and every one of your righteous ordinances is everlasting
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He was saying that it you know The scripture doesn't explicitly teach on a threefold division of the law and my argument was that well
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It's it's done by implication just like the Trinity is done by implication And so you can't say that because it's not like specifically explicitly stated that that it's not there
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And so I thought that was interesting also because I've actually ended up defending that But the guy the the pastor is awesome.
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He actually invited me and another guy Because we use the law and evangelism to the class where he was teaching on that because he thought we would disagree with him
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Hmm so that we could disagree with him. And so that's not something you see every day the guy
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He's amazing But but that still was the the question that couldn't be answered if if God's law is everlasting
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How do you not? how do you not somehow divide it in regards to what still exists because it's everlasting and what is
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What is not presently active or rather ratified by the New Covenant? So yeah good points.
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I mean the The we've dealt with this a lot of you know several times and it's it's a very common
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Dispensational is share that with New Covenant theology They reject the threefold division or distinction of the law and you do run into several problems
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When you do that, so and actually they do it implicitly they do it They do they don't actually realize that they do it implicitly
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But we're gonna we're gonna cover that in more detail in our show where we deal more more when we revisit
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New Covenant theology but that being said There was also something else that we wanted to kind of comment on with regards to the the fairly recent discussion that was held with on conversations from the porch where they had a
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Discussion similar to the one that I had with Lewis Lyons with Jason mullet from logical belief ministries and Dustin Seegers who is
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New Covenant and Doesn't well, what's his name? Jason is actually
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Reformed Baptist, but he doesn't hold to the Sabbath. So that's kind of qualified there Did you all get a chance to listen to that?
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Yeah, I did. Let me let me ask you man. I Are your feelings hurt? That uh,
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Jason that Jason got invited onto the porch and you still haven't Because I mean, oh no,
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I know. Okay, because I know I know like we've been here for a while and we had offered to Have that conversation with them
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A long time ago, especially you so I just wanted to make sure that you weren't that you didn't get hurt feelings no, no,
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I'm not I'm not just I mean, I'm disappointed because Unfortunately, Jason was largely very ignorant of New Covenant theology and he admitted as much because he said that the only book he had really read was part way he had started reading a part of Charles lighters the law of Christ and that's not even a fully
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New Covenant theology perspective. So That's another kind of misleading thing that you can't you got you get the impression from some of these
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NCT guys Like I know the porch has they've been promoting Charles lighters book as NCT and it's really not it's they do have a similar view with respect to certain aspects of the law, but In in Charles light and one of the brothers from from my church actually lent me the book so I've been going through it and They don't actually completely disregard the threefold division of the law.
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They say that it is useful that it can be useful It's just that you know, it can only go so far so They don't they don't completely like throw it away.
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Like you hear a lot of NCT guys Who are on the more extreme side? They tend to you know, try to completely throw it away or disregard it and things like that.
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So Yeah, that was very disappointing because Jason unfortunately was not very well prepared and he was mainly asking questions so he wasn't really able to give any like that that good of a
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Comments or feedback to to Dustin and Dustin you could tell was way more experienced.
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He's way more knowledgeable than he was on with respect to NCT and so and And in that being said go ahead.
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Yeah. Well, maybe is it maybe I don't know maybe Jason I think that might be Jason style to just ask questions and Dialogue in that way.
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I mean, I'm not really sure What I've noticed is that a lot of times then he'll address points later on his own show so But yeah,
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I thought I thought it was a good discussion. I Want to say that and I thought it was very civil everybody survived
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It could have been us. It could have been you Carlos, but it wasn't so Sure. Yeah, I think no and he does he's a very good debater
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I've heard some of his debates with Layton flowers and some of his other stuff and he defends Calvinism excellently and When he knows his stuff, he does it very well
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And that's why I was a little disappointed because he wasn't he just I guess he was kind of jumping into it more to learn
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About it rather than to really actually try to you know Give some criticism or or refute certain aspects of New Covenant, you know theology so and and that being said there was an issue there that came up and it's it's it's happened before Already on the porch and we've already addressed it on our show
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I think more than once where there seems to be a very big misunderstanding as to what the moral law actually is and That's that's been a big problem.
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And unfortunately Dustin Seegers. I guess he hasn't listened to our episode. So He ended up kind of perpetuating the same misrepresent, you know the same misunderstanding about the moral law being equated with the
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Ten Commandments and so That is not true that is that is you know, the moral law includes the
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Ten Commandments but it is not exclusively the Ten Commandments and So and he said something he made a comment like all of the reform guys
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I've talked to have pretty much equated or said that the Ten Commandments are the moral law and it's like well, that's not correct
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They are included but it's not exclusively that and all you have to do is look at the Westminster larger catechism
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It defines the moral law in question 93 It says what is the moral law? The answer is the moral law is a declaration of the will of God to mankind directing and binding everyone to personal perfect and perpetual conformity and obedience thereunto in the frame and disposition of the whole man's soul and body and in Performance of all those duties of holiness and righteousness which he owe it to God and man
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Promising life upon the fulfilling and threatening death upon the breach of it So there you can see the theme is that it's the everlasting.
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It's an eternal law, right? It's it's perpetual It's always binding and so further on in question 98 it says wherein is the moral law somewhere summarily comprehended answer the moralized summarily comprehended in the
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Ten Commandments, which were delivered by the voice of God upon upon Mount Sinai and Written by him on two table two tables of stone and are recorded in the 20th chapter of Exodus The first four commandments of containing our duty to God and the other six our duty to men.
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So there you have it folks This is probably the second or third time we've addressed this on the show But at least now we give you some more clear definition
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And I think the one thing that kind of also disappointed me about Jason is that he was sort of being a little bit he was using his own definitions when
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I don't think he really had to I mean he said that he didn't really like using the term Christian Sabbath He rather used alert the
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Lord's Day But actually like I don't think there's anything wrong with using the Christian Sabbath because in Hebrews 4 says that there remains a
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Sabbath rest for the people of God so, you know Well, there's nothing wrong with calling it the Christian Sabbath to distinguish it from the
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Old Testament, you know, Jewish Sabbath So, you know, there was just things like that. He was kind of being providing his own definition
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It's like well, if you just you really you don't need to change these much I mean I thought all like you don't really need to change this.
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It's already well -established Theological definitions and terminology that have really withstood the test of time and are pretty consistent with the
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Bible with what the Bible teaches And so you would say just for clarity sake that the moral law also includes other
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I guess Commandments in the New Testament, which would be moral Yeah, like I mean, it's it's obviously they can be they relate to the
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Ten Commandments in some way Because they're summarizing the Ten Commandments. So like bestiality, for example, you know, that's that's part of the moral law
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It's never okay to have sex with animals, you know It's it's it's never okay to to commit certain forms of incest
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Well, we'll deal with that later that we have a very good discussion on incest that we're going to get into When we talk about NCT in more detail, but yeah that the moral law is not exclusively the
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Ten Commandments there's other things involved there that Are included by way of not just by way of implication
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But also by virtue of the fact that God prohibits certain things in both the
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Old and the New Testament as well so Yeah, you just reminded me man. We need to take up the
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LGBTQI Issue again You know Yeah, I mean, it's just it's getting so ridiculous.
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But uh, you know, somebody posted a Funny meme I forgot who it was, but it said it was that philosopher dinosaur and it said doesn't the
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B and LGBT Imply that there's only two genders. I thought that was pretty interesting.
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So I asked it. Yeah, that's funny I asked a couple of people about that and they're like, oh, yeah so, all right, so you got that off your chest glad to glad to hear it and You wanted to give
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Paul Kaiser some props, right? That is that is right. Yeah, I was very glad to see that.
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He's sort of turning over a new leaf Well, wait a minute wait a minute I think we're turning over a new leaf too because we we corrected
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Andrew up for it And now we're about to give Paul Kaiser some some props. So yeah
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Yeah, I think new new things are happening at Semper where from on the radio definitely Yeah, I was very
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Encouraged to see that he when I think it was in that same episode or maybe the one before it or somewhere around there he did say that He was affirming the fact that he was actually starting to read
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Baptist Covenant theology a Reformed Baptist authors and he was recommending them as well and to his listeners and He also said that he was affirming that there was a lot that we had in common that that Reformed Baptist and certain certain
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Streams of New Covenant theology have a lot in common. And so I was very encouraged by that. I was very excited
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I'm very excited to see That they're willing to you know Step into the conversation
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Respectfully and and actually do their homework do some research, you know actually read the arguments and so on and so forth to to have a much better dialogue hopefully and Be able to represent the other side more accurately than they have been in the past And so because when there's so much strong ending and missing representation, it's very hard to see any common ground, you know
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Because you're just especially in the beginning where they were kind of equating us with like, you know, why are you aren't you
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Presbyterian? You know making jokes about being Presbyterian and you know just very sort of superficial remarks that did not illustrate or demonstrate a good understanding of What Reformed Baptist theology actually is and that wasn't funny.
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It's not a funny joke Yeah It's yeah,
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I mean it's if you anybody who is aware of it is it realizes that there are very significant differences between the two those two areas of Covenant theology so and we have talked to me again.
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We've already talked about this stuff before in our show so, you know, you can go back and visit, you know, my discussions with Lewis Lyons and things like that, but But yeah, that was that was very encouraging.
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I do look forward to to seeing what they have to contribute Okay, so we're good with the public service announcement, right?
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well, I'm glad you you asked because I want to make a quick public service and now announcements because In case you all are not aware
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June was declared LGBT month by Barack Obama, I believe back in 2008 and so this is why you're starting to see a lot of activity actually just today we had a
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LGBT parade in El Paso and Some of the brothers went on witness there and so so there's a lot of activity going on even in my job like I was just sort of shocked at how
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I Was I'm a software engineer, right? So I like to use a certain coding editor called
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VIM and I was looking some of the videos by the creator of them Too, you know because I'm gonna give a presentation on it next week and so I was going on to his channel and I thought
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I had the wrong channel because I was seeing a bunch of like LGBT parade Videos posted on there with like nude people on the you don't even have to click on the video and there was like nude
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People everywhere topless and things like that I was like, do I even have the wrong the right channel? And then
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I realized no. Oh, wow No, this is it's the same guy He has like videos on the history of this coding editor and then he has a bunch of videos that he recently uploaded
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On his channel about you know LGBT parades because he works for Google so and Google has you know, they're very very pro
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LGBT and So much so that they already I mean They just hit the ground running by the beginning of March and they're already
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Participating in all these parades and vile filthy parades. I mean even just looking at the thumbnail is already defiling, but They also released a video and this is a very important public service announcement because they recently
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Google recently released a video on Google movies called a storks journey and This movie is for kids
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It's it's for kids and the problem with that is that it has some very subtle and very not so subtle LGBT Agenda being promoted through it and it is pretty it's pretty bad
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Like the whole point of this movie and I haven't seen all of it I started watching it and we were like this is there's something really wrong with this
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And so they they like the whole month the whole month of June It's it's gonna be free like you can download it or watch it for free
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And add it to your library for the whole month of June so that already tells you one thing But this is clearly a tie to the agenda that they're pushing as the
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LGBT agenda The other thing is that this the whole point of the movie is that this bird was adopted by it's a sparrow that was adopted by storks a stork family and You know, the problem is that the birds have very different ways of life
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Like they were saying that the the storks have they fly at much higher altitudes because they have to travel much further and the sparrows can't
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Do that the sparrows don't migrate and so the basically the whole movie is this like this bird? Insisting that he's a stork and defying his own nature
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So that's Romans one right there folks. I mean and Google here Google is promoting this trash very subtly to kids and and then later on He basically starts running into all of these birds that are kind of like outcasts, you know that they're like the the outsiders and outcasts and you know kind of pushing that that up that motif and how you know,
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The LGBT agenda is outcasted and all this stuff even though they have incredible amounts of power and influence
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Especially through that, you know the most wealthiest companies like Google and Facebook and all that stuff
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So this one bird they meet up they meet this one bird who's trapped in a cage and he's basically like a trans
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What do you call it? He's sort of like a drag queen bird. He's he's a male bird but then it looks like he has makeup on and he's he sings the bird sings and his favorite song is
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I'm coming out and The way Google did this is like they're they're playing the song
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I'm coming out because he wants to get out of his cage, but there you see again some very subtle Very subtle very evil just just parallels there with the
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LGBT agenda and coming out about your your, you know sexuality or whatever and Here's the worst.
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Here's the worst part of it all The worst part of it is that this movie has the
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Dove Foundation stamp on it on the front cover of the of the movie Stamped as family approved by the
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Dove Foundation so I Thought that was supposed to be a Christian, you know
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Ministry that was that that reviews movies and tells you that you know, whether it's okay or not if this is family -friendly
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So I was pretty disturbed by all this and so I wanted to you know Just bring that out to our listeners that this
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LGBT agenda is getting very Very bad. They're reaching out to kids. They're trying to get into their minds.
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And so just be careful, you know to be very careful and You can watch it for yourself. It's free.
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You can go to Google Movies and watch it for yourself and see there it is I mean, so yeah, that was that was all the
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PSA's that I had That's really good. I'm really glad that you That you brought all that stuff to light
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Carlos. I did see the the rainbow flag posted on Basically as the emoji icon for Google and one of the things that you that you were talking about right now was the fact that this is very subtle and I kind of wanted to comment on that because this issue came up with the what was it the the
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Beauty and the Beast movie because Here we are. We're making a big deal about this right and Joseph did that episode with me
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We're making a big deal about this and then people go to the to see the movie and They're kind of like what's the big deal
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You know like oh, it's not overt I mean, it's just it's it's this one little scene where they dance or you know, it's not really that, you know
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It's not a big deal like you guys are making it out to be well So I'm gonna read from the
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King James Bible in Genesis 3 verse 1 It says now the serpent was more subtle than any beast in the field, which the
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Lord God had made And he said and he said unto the woman Yea, hath
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God said you shall not eat of every tree of the garden and I've talked about this before God did not say that you shall not eat of every tree
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This is the first time that we see that Satan is actually twisting God's Word But I actually I really like the
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King James Bible when it comes to this verse because it says that the serpent was more subtle than any beast in the field and We see that these things are brought in with stealth and they're brought in in a very subtle way
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And that's exactly what's going on. And so if you're a Christian parent, you'd better think that these things are a big deal
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Because they're laying the groundwork for your child to be indoctrinated into what we would
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Rightly call an antichrist agenda So that's that's my piece with that.
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Yes, it is subtle But yes, we need to make a big deal about it. And the fact that it's subtle the fact that I mean
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It's a you know, the English Standard Version says now the serpent was more crafty than any of the other beasts of the field well
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This is they're being very crafty in the way that they're presenting this to your child
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They're being very crafty in The way that they are that they are going about this and it's it's very subtle, but it's very
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I would say very Damaging it's very wicked. And so that's that's my piece about that.
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So alright with that being said We got the public service announcements out of the way. Let me go ahead and play a little promo
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Clip from Tim Hurd just highlighting the other podcast. I want to recommend them check them out You always got to hear both sides of the story
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So check out to see what Andrew report has going on and and we mentioned conversations from the porch.
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We mentioned Logical belief ministry. So those are only three of the ones that we mentioned
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I believe there's ten on the podcast So go ahead and check them out and then also Want to give a little word from our sponsor track planet and check out what they've got.
27:48
We'll be back in a minute This podcast is a member of the Bible thumping wingnet network
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That's TR a CT planet .com coupon code BT WN All right, so we are back and so we got the public service announcements out of the way
29:40
Carlos had been Wanting to get that off his chest for a while We it's come up multiple times in conversations with him on the phone.
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So Carlos, where are we going next? Yeah, well you wanted to read some emails I believe right?
29:57
Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of some emails that have Been piling up to some really good emails from our listeners.
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Okay, let me let me before you do that Let me just go ahead and plug our email if you guys would like to email us
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You can reach us at semper dot referendum radio at gmail .com we always appreciate the emails
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Carlos is a really good job of getting back to people if I can't and sometimes we read them on the air and But we definitely appreciate feedback.
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So hi Carlos Yeah, you know and we never that was another that was another thing that we had carried early on in our show
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With the whole LGBT agenda and we we wanted to do a concluding episode but really it's not something that you really conclude, you know, because there's just this stuff is going to keep it recurring and it's going to Keep getting more and more blatant and stuff
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So I mean and I want to just kind of summarize a little bit and give some encouragement to people who either are in The LGBT movement or know somebody who is and so just to sum it up we've we've kind of went over this already a little bit, but the
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The the religion of the LGBT agenda, which is Antichrist is essentially existential humanism
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Because they make you believe that you can fabricate your own reality according to what you see fit
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Doesn't matter what gender you were born with. It doesn't matter what? sexual Organs you have and and therefore what desires you should have that should accord with that with nature
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It doesn't matter you can choose whatever you want And that's what that's why I pointed out that movie was so wicked because a sparrow is not a stork
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No matter how hard he wants to be. It's just not going to happen The sparrow will die if he tries to do what a stork does and and vice versa
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It does not work because it goes against nature and that's exactly what Romans 1 teaches us that when you are in this
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LGBT movement agenda and You think that gender is fluid or that your your your identity can be defined by whatever you think or feel you are you are deceiving yourself and That means that you will incur
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God's wrath and judgment upon yourself If you do not repent now, there is grace and there is repentance and there is forgiveness because by means of the gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation and so a word of encouragement to you all because 1st
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Corinthians and in 1st Corinthians 6 9 It says do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers
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Nor homosexuals nor sodomites nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God here is
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What you need to listen to verse 11 and such were some of you
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But you were washed but you were sanctified But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the
32:52
Spirit of God That is our word of encouragement to you who are either in the LGBT or if you know somebody there is hope for you
32:58
But it is only found in Christ in Christ alone so That's that's a wrap for that for now.
33:06
Well, yeah real quick and also we want to point out that that's not just We're not just pointing the finger at you the people who are
33:15
LGBTQ People as as were some of you is applied to us because there are
33:23
There are sins listed in that that that I we're all in that list Yeah, I would have struggled with that.
33:30
You know that I was that I've been saved from Joseph and Carlos as well.
33:36
So It's encouraging for us because I mean Paul's basically this can be applied to person who is a
33:45
Christian and it's it can be offered as hope for if you have if you have family members just remember what
33:53
God has done for you and And and so there's there's definitely hope in Christ So yeah, hey
34:01
That was good stuff, man So were you gonna read an email or what? Yeah, let me let me go on to the emails now yeah,
34:09
God is powerful God regenerates and he will change and conform your desires to his will if But of course you have to it's repentance and faith.
34:19
It's Christ alone. So Don't don't don't lose hope hope is in Christ alone
34:27
Yeah, so now the emails We have a few emails that I wanted to point out we have one from Dan Ames a recent one from Dan Ames He actually
34:37
I think he's emailed us before and he I think Tim you mentioned something about Starting the classical conversations homeschooling and he was very encouraged to hear that and unfortunately
34:49
My email app is not working. So I can't pull it up. But he said that he heard on a recent episode that You know you were talking about it
34:57
And so that's another thing that we're gonna have to get into eventually the homeschooling thing Give our two cents on it
35:03
Give we're also planning to provide some resources on the on our blog so that you know People can have some some stuff that they can work with We homeschooling is very important It's an extremely important thing that that because it is the parents responsibility to educate their children
35:18
So he wasn't you know, he was encouraged to hear us mention it and also we have to point out that like Mmm, not not all these come, you know
35:26
Some curriculums are better than others and I have found a lot of good stuff in classical conversations But unfortunately, you have to be careful with even that one because a lot of times what these curriculums try to do is
35:37
They try to cater to as many different types of Christian denominations and faiths as possible So they they're not oftentimes.
35:45
They're not explicitly reformed and they don't really give you the fully Reformed fleshed out worldview embedded into every subject that you cover and so that's a problem
35:56
And another problem is that they unfortunately also have like some kind of contract with Doug Wilson who is a false teacher.
36:02
He's a heretic. He he I believe he he's you know, he's been tied into the the Auburn Avenue theology and you know believing that you have to be baptized to be saved and things like that So, you know, just be careful be discerning
36:15
We're definitely gonna touch more on that later as well, but What's it called? No, so I homeschool or my wife homeschools my kids.
36:23
She was talking to one of the Ladies at our church who does classical conversations and actually is basically like leading that For for a few people in the area
36:34
So so I may be off air or even on air at some point talking about that I'd be be curious to have that conversation listen
36:40
Nothing else to ask questions because it sounds like you've done a little bit more research in it But I think that the thing that's important to remember is that regardless of what curriculum is set forth by a home homeschooling program
36:52
We don't it's still our responsibility to teach. So for example The one that my daughter has been doing over the past couple of years, which we're switching from this year
37:04
Where it tries to teach an idea in regards to with the Bible courses that are in it
37:11
It's a There there have been more than one occasion where I said, well, that's wrong The answer you gave was right because it's what
37:18
I taught you and this is why that's wrong And so I think
37:23
I don't think it matters at all what what what program you do I don't think there's gonna be the perfect program that aligns with your theology personally
37:31
Then obviously there's not gonna be a perfect program but I've became a responsibility to teach and raise our kids to a school system.
37:41
We don't do that with a homeschooling program either So I think that was a really good point
37:49
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, my church actually does classical conversation So we have you know, they meet once a week at at our church and it's it looks very good from what
37:59
I've seen It by and large they really it's the it's pretty it's probably the best that I've seen out of the ones that I've you know, kind of looked at so But even then you of course there's cat there's caveats
38:11
You have to be careful and actually another one that we were planning to tie into with the classical conversation
38:17
It was actually called the Puritan homeschool curriculum, which I believe you can also get for free online
38:22
It's actually free. So, you know, there's good and that one is explicitly reformed. That's based on the Westminster standards
38:27
So, you know, there's there's always some stuff that you can fill in and find, you know online. Thanks to the
38:33
Internet But Tim were you gonna jump in here? Yeah, I didn't expect that you were gonna call
38:40
Doug Wilson a heretic or a false teacher. So there's a so I wanted to just recommend a book by the
38:50
Trinity Foundation and I was trying to look it up because Sean Garrity Who was a co -author to?
38:58
Book, do you know what the book? Yeah, it's called not reformed at all
39:03
Yeah, not reformed at all and he co -authored it with the late John Robbins who was the founder of the
39:09
Trinity Foundation. I Think does a pretty good job in that book explaining how
39:15
Doug Wilson Compromises the doctrine of justification by faith alone It's been some while since I've read the book
39:22
But hey, I mean we're we'd love to get Sean Garrity on the show to talk about Clarkianism and We think a lot of Sean Garrity.
39:33
We've had We've had some some really good interactions with him, so That being said
39:41
I want to recommend that book to people if if they are curious and they want to find out a little bit more about Why we would say that because I mean
39:51
Doug Wilson gets a pass by most Christians and I Think even apology or radio was promoting they they liked him they from what
40:05
I gathered so he's really really under the radar with a lot of people and That's really all
40:12
I had to add to that. Yeah, the Trinity Foundation has published articles in that book, and I think another book
40:19
Really exposing some of the errors that that Doug Wilson is promoting heresies in fact and Also Brian shortly, he's also written stuff against him.
40:28
He's actually he's got some sermons against him to you know pointing out his his His heresies, so it's this it's definitely out there for people to look at But so I guess that was another public service announcement.
40:41
I mean they might just keep popping up throughout the show so Just trying to get people caught up here, and you know just be wary of the times
40:50
You know the times are evil the days are evil I hate to break it to these post -millennialists. You know I don't understand.
40:55
I don't understand post -millennialism the days are evil And they're getting worse so beware another public service and so Carlos I'm gonna create a bridge here, so you're not a theonomist
41:09
No, oh Well well
41:15
Well that I'm glad you brought that up. I don't know because apparently we're the new theonomist on the block
41:22
Yeah, somebody somebody's been playing the part of the snake And you know saying just I don't know what it is man but you know before before we jump right into that I want to I want to springboard from this because You know we're talking about apologetics and you know some some people
41:41
I could understand how some people maybe get lost in our discussions because When we started the episode the the podcast we kind of just sort of we hit the ground running
41:51
And we didn't really get a chance to explain ourselves And and now we're starting to do that a lot more and so this this episode will also be some of that as well definitional stuff that we're talking about and Wanted to read a very good email that I got from actually it's the same person.
42:07
It's Dan Ames, so how fitting the guy who was Commending us you know for the classical conversation stuff
42:13
He earlier he sent another email saying Hello, would you be so kind as to recommend the best available books written on a
42:21
Clarkian apologetics? I am considering the purchase of religion reason and revelation, but I wanted to get your recommendation first sincerely
42:27
Dan so and Dan Thank you very much for your emails. We very encouraged by that and I responded to Dan's email
42:34
And I'm just going to go ahead and read it because this is going to set up sort of a springboard as to our discussion now
42:41
I said hi Dan great question. There's a sense in which all of Clark's work is apologetic So you can't really go wrong with any of his publications?
42:48
Religion reason revelation is definitely a great place to start It's one of my favorite books in which Clark also tackles a problem of evil brilliantly
42:56
I would actually recommend volume 4 though which includes religion reason and revelation and is more complete or more comprehensive
43:04
This volume also includes a very important key article God and logic by Clark that you should read first to grasp his approach
43:12
The best foundational primer on scripturalist apologetics is probably God's hammer Which is a collection of essays that focuses on how we should view use defend and argue from the
43:23
Bible You can't go wrong with this one. This is the first book. I read by Clark I've reread it like five times and always learn something new even though that happens every time
43:32
I reread anything from Clark Another good place to start is Christian view of men and things some say this is
43:38
Clark's magnum opus Where he presents a panoramic worldview of Christianity by applying it to every major branch of philosophy
43:45
Commenting on this. This is a quote commenting on the scripturalist apologetic methodology of Gordon Clark Gilbert Weaver wrote an
43:53
Extended example of this type of apologetics is found in Clark's volume a Christian view of men and things in in it he takes up the topics of history politics ethics science religion and epistemology and In each one shows that the major opposing non -christian systems fail to establish
44:10
Answers to the basic problems of the area of study that they tend to skepticism or self -contradiction and that the
44:16
Christian worldview based on divine revelation Provides plausible solutions in each case The net result is that the rivals of Christianity are undercut in each area of thought and are thus in no solid position
44:27
From which to launch an attack upon the Christian faith. That was an article from the Trinity Foundation And so I continue so it kind of depends on where you want to start for a good foundational primer and Bibliology Which is a study of the
44:40
Bible basically God's hammer for a cup go with God's hammer for a comprehensive philosophical and theological understanding of apologetics including the problem of evil volume for Go with volume for which is his his
44:56
I think it's called Christian philosophy from the Trinity Foundation For a big picture broad sweeping an apogogic or ad hominem presentation
45:05
Christian view of men and things is a good is a good one So the best source for all things
45:10
Clarkian is the Trinity Foundation. They have all of Clark's Most if not all of Clark's published works and more you can also look at these recommended resources by talking topics to get your feet
45:20
Wet we're gonna share these links as well on the show notes, so We'll put them up there their mp3 left lectures on apologetics and logic are outstanding, too
45:30
They're worth listening to several times, which I have I've listened to I think all of those lectures from the Trinity Foundation at least twice
45:37
And they are outstanding. They are very very good lectures even on economics on theology
45:42
Everything so it's very good stuff I Hope this helps let us know if you got if you have any other questions when you dig in separate from under Carlos, so This is it folks.
45:54
This is what we've been you know Encouraging people to look at and actually this reminds me of what we forgot to mention too because in that episode with with that that with Dustin Seegers and Jason mullet on the conversation from the porch they talked a little bit apologetics
46:12
And so in it. I think the porch has recommended a book, but I can't remember the author.
46:18
I think it's Clifford Gertz Called biblical apologetics, and they kind of recommend. I guess they all kind of recommended a sort of soft
46:28
Presuppositional you know Vantillion approach of of doing apologetics. I just use the Bible. You know just just use the
46:34
Bible you know That's all you really need and kind of like well That's the thing though because the
46:40
Bible itself has a method and this is why we are encouraging people to study Gordon Clark because it is our responsibility to do apologetics according to God's Word and If the
46:51
Bible has something to say on it, then we need to follow it and and does it absolutely absolutely it does
46:56
You know just some some verses right off the bat is in Proverbs. What's that verse in Proverbs is it
47:02
Proverbs 23? That says you know how to answer the phone how to not answer the fool
47:07
It's Proverbs 26 verse 4 through because I actually wrote an article on this right
47:15
Proverbs 26 there it is yeah Proverbs 26 verses 4 and 5 It says do not answer a fool according to his folly lest you also be like him answer a fool according to his folly lest He be wise in his own eyes
47:27
This is this is Scripturalist Presuppositional apologetics folks.
47:34
It's not enough. You know it's it's important for us to do detailed in -depth studies of Apologetics, and I know it's you know it can be difficult to because there's all these different methods and all these all these different ways
47:48
Of going about it, but nevertheless we would see we can give you a head start We would encourage you to study
47:54
Gordon Clark Gordon Clark has by far what we've seen the most consistent approach to doing apologetics biblically and It's not enough to you know.
48:03
It's a sort of it's kind of a cop -out to be honest when people say like oh Well, just use the Bible. You know just use it.
48:09
Well. Okay. Well. What does the Bible say? What does it teach what it has? What does it have to say on it because if it has something to say on it it is systematic
48:15
It's going to be a method and you should use that method consistently and that method part of that method is illustrated in these verses
48:22
You're not supposed to answer a fool according to his folly lest you be like him in his foolishness because in the sense that you're not supposed to adopt his own principles and And try to argue from an evidence evidentialist approach.
48:36
That's what evidentialists do they try to argue from their Perspective to try to prove and kind of prove and go back to God, but that doesn't work because You have to always presuppose
48:49
You you can't not presuppose God you have to start somewhere and for the Christian the starting point is
48:55
There's nothing else, but the Bible in the Bible alone. Yeah, let me let me jump in here, so Yeah, what we're advocating is that you can't
49:07
So for one does you say well just use the Bible? I'm getting the impression that It's it's kind of like well.
49:16
You don't really have to study Islam, or you really don't have to study Mormonism or you really don't have to study the Jehovah's Witnesses or the black
49:22
Hebrews lights like just use the Bible That's the impression that I'm getting I don't know if that was
49:28
I'm not attributing that as the actual position that was stated But the problem with that is that in order to answer the full according to his folly
49:39
You have to actually know his position and you have to be able to deduce from his position either
49:46
Contradictory propositions or propositions that they would view as That they would themselves reject and so I actually
49:55
I wrote an article that encouraged people to read it It's called the scripturalist ad hominem reply
50:01
And what I advocate is is what Clark identifies as an ad hominem response
50:08
It's Latin meaning to the man a form of argument that accepts a proposition espoused by another for the purpose of deducing from it
50:14
Contradictory propositions and Propositions or propositions that would be rejected by the other person and then he emphatically states ad hominem should be distinguished from the informal fallacy of abusive ad hominem and so basically what
50:33
I point out is that ad hominem is is basically The abusive ad hominem is a fallacy of irrelevancy so you can attack another person's character and say well this person's wrong because you know, they're just dumb or This person's wrong because they're immoral and you can't believe anything that they say where that's a fallacy because the person being
50:57
Immoral has nothing to do with whether or not their argument is actually sound and in the in the ad hominem reply that the
51:07
Clark is advocating Instead of attacking the person's character or attacking some other irrelevant feature what we're actually doing is we're attacking the person's presuppositions and So I'll read the passage again
51:23
It says answer not a fool according to his folly lest you be like him Answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes
51:30
So answer not a fool according to his folly that is you do not accept his false Presuppositions as your own lest you be like him and we see this happen all the time one of the areas that this happens the most in is with regards to science, so the the
51:48
Unbeliever has this view of science that they can prove things through using the scientific method that they can prove things
51:57
Just using science in general. And so what we see is that a lot of Christians will then try to Use science to prove the
52:05
Bible. What have you just done? You've accepted His folly as your own and you're going to be just like him because you face the exact same problems
52:14
One being that the scientific method is commits the fallacy of asserting the consequent Which is if P then
52:19
Q Q therefore P another one is that the scientific method commits the fallacy of induction
52:25
I want to point out that not all inductive reasoning is fallacious But when you try to assert a general principle or a universal claim
52:32
From a limited set of particular instances. Well, then that's a fallacy and the problem with science is that science can never actually
52:41
Complete the induction. I mean you can do you can do Scientific experiments on geese.
52:48
Well, you've not you've not Seen all the geese in the past your experience is very limited in the present and you've not seen any
52:56
Geese in the future and so we've played we've played this before But let's go into the second part of this answer a fool according to his folly.
53:05
That is You do accept his false Presuppositions for the sake of argument and this is what
53:12
Clark is advocating so that you may deduce from them contradictory Propositions or reduce them to absurdity lest he be wise in his own eyes and in order to do that you actually have to Dig into What it is that they are presupposing and in this article,
53:30
I actually give three examples. I talk about empiricism I talk about naturalism and I talk about materialism,
53:40
I believe those are the three and I show how they are either self contradictory or they reduce to absurdity and I'm gonna write some more articles on this because this applies in pretty much every area of apologetics if you want to use this approach and you should use this approach with With Jehovah's Witnesses, so I'm going to accept that for the sake of argument.
54:03
Let's accept that your Bible The New World Translation is accurate and is true I'm going to deduce from that contradictory propositions to show that it's absurd and And by the way, we're
54:15
I'm gonna hopefully put out an article about this in the future And we are going to take up the the issue of the
54:22
Jehovah's Witnesses in the future as well, but that is
54:28
That's a pretty brief summation of what the ad hominem replies and here's the other thing
54:33
So you can actually use the ad hominem reply going back to the LGBTQ agenda you can use the ad hominem reply for the sake of argument, let's say that how they say that that Homosexuals are born that way and because they're born that way
54:49
It's therefore morally acceptable for them to act upon those behaviors. Let's just let's accept that as true for the sake of argument
54:57
Well, if that's true, then why can't pedophiles? I mean, they're born that way, right?
55:03
I'm accepting your your propositions is true for the sake of argument And what's going to happen is they're going to take a step back and say well no
55:11
No, I mean pedophiles are different Because they are you know And then they're going to try to come up with some arbitrary arbitrary distinction between The pedophile and the homosexual and most most of the time it's well, there's there the homosexual
55:29
Couple they're two consenting adults the pedophile they're not but then you can just go right back to a well
55:36
Okay So why is harming children? Morally wrong in your worldview in your worldview and I'm going to once again stand in your worldview
55:44
And I'm going to ask you to tell me exactly why hurting people is morally wrong
55:49
And then you can get into a great moral argument. I also have an article About morality.
55:55
There's more that I need to address on that. The article is long enough So I put it out, but anybody have any any thoughts on any of that?
56:04
Well to be fair To you know, the porch guys. I think it was pastor
56:10
Paul Kaiser that said He they've had advocated, you know, sort of like kind of like a fundamentalist biblicist approach to apologetics but he did say he did say that it will necessarily be presuppositional and Our point is that you should study this you should take this
56:29
You need to take this the time to study this in more depth because it will greatly benefit you and the
56:35
Bible requires it These verses that we just read to you requires it you in order to answer a fool according to his folly
56:42
You need to be sufficiently equipped with with other world views in general especially the ones that you that you encounter that you've already encountered in order to be able to refute them effectively and the the great thing about scripturalism though about the the apologetics and the books that Clark wrote is that You're able to really do you kind of able to apply a very big you get a very big tool set when you're able to isolate the the the assumptions behind a
57:14
Worldview when you can isolate assumptions and identify them properly you can then begin to argue
57:22
Against their worldview by showing them that they either contradict themselves. They contradict the Bible they contradict or they're absurd
57:29
They're just absurd notions that they would they themselves will not even hope hold to that is what an apagogic argument is
57:34
It's an ad hominem argument like Tim Explained so we encourage you all to to check out
57:40
Tim's article the the scripturalist at hominem reply We've got a couple of other articles on on the
57:46
Bible thumping wingman as well. We also wrote one on knowledge faith in the marks of a true Clarkian and that was kind of a that was a bit of a controversy that that arose
57:57
Between different schools of thought Clarkian, you know camps and so We talked about epistemology as well
58:05
You know in order to have knowledge you have to have justified true belief The way you justify your true belief is through the
58:10
Bible if you cannot justify it with the Bible You do not have justified true belief. Okay, that's a very important notion as well
58:18
And so we've written, you know, we've begun to write about some of these things, you know, Tim You also mentioned the morality the morality piece that you wrote a lot of good stuff there
58:28
And I would also encourage you if you've never read Clark before or if you're kind of you know Just getting started getting familiar with the different views.
58:34
I would encourage you to read Clark's article called God and logic That is a very good place to start.
58:40
I think because It really shows you his his his method his approach and he really analyzes these these sort of these
58:49
How logic relates to God the Bible and man and kind of showing you the necessity of Holding to the
58:55
Bible and why the Bible itself Encompasses everything including logic. There's no need to presuppose logic before it
59:02
And so because because because Christ is the logos Christ is the logic or the wisdom or the reason of God So it's brilliant stuff you so we encourage you to to take a look at that article will post it on the show notes as well and Hey Everybody this is
59:28
Tim and I am changing the channel on this episode If you heard the original episode released on Wednesday night when?
59:37
Really? It was early Tuesday morning we had critiqued and called out a brother by the name of Tyler Vela who is the host of the freed thinker podcast and Shortly after that Tyler had contacted me asked me to take it down and and we began to reconcile and I'm very grateful to report that we have been fully and completely reconciled and I'm very grateful for that because I'm so glad that we were able to deal with this quickly and come to terms quickly and I also need to let everybody know that I I You know,
01:00:20
I wasn't completely innocent in this I had unfortunately given Tyler a wrong impression about where we were at with each other
01:00:28
And and I think that we were possibly talking past each other He was on one page and I was
01:00:35
I was on a completely different page So, you know, I I accept responsibility for that and I apologize to him for that and I want
01:00:43
Tyler to know that we appreciate him that we value him that we pray for his ministry and And you know,
01:00:51
I think that he's got some some good stuff out there guys So Look, God is good
01:00:59
He's been good in the midst of this and you know The other person that I want to thank is my wife my wife
01:01:06
Amy. She was very Encouraging to me to you know, give me advice give me give me counsel and I'm very grateful for that and I'm very grateful for her as well
01:01:19
And with that we we just we want to close out this episode so I Believe that all parties that were involved in this conflict were
01:01:31
Are in the process of being reconciled We I am I'm reconciled with with Tyler and so I hope to check you guys next time and in the meantime