Pleasure in Moderation: Alcohol in Moderation

Well, please turn now to Proverbs chapter 20. Last week we looked at food, well, not last week, but last time I was preaching in the evening, we looked at food in moderation, now continuing the series in pleasure in moderation, we're looking at alcohol in moderation.

When you have that, please stand. For context, I will begin in verse 28. A worthless witness mocks at justice, and the mouth of the wicked devours iniquity. Condemnation is ready for scoffers, and beating for the backs of fools.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. Amen. You may be seated. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for the wonderful gifts that you have given us. We ask that you would teach us to enjoy them in moderation.

We pray that we would not be self-righteous about our abstinence, and that we would be righteous in our uses. In Jesus' name, amen. Well, as we look at pleasure in moderation, it is right to go to one of the great pleasures that God has given.

Wine as a Gift and a Warning Against Excess

Wine, or more generally, alcohol. Something that frequently in scripture is used directly to speak of joy, and even often in metaphorical ways to speak of joy. It is one of the more interesting blessings that God has given, because it does not have a necessary purpose the way that many other pleasures do.

If you think about food, that is one of the primary pleasures the Bible speaks of. Food is necessary in order to survive. If you think about sex, one of the other pleasures that the Bible often speaks of, that is necessary for the propagation of the species.

But if you think about wine, wine is not something that is necessary for survival in any sense. It is not necessary for individual survival. It is not necessary for the survival of the people. And yet, God has blessed mankind with wine.

Yet, it is something that scripture also often warns us against the excesses of alcohol. Because many people, not satisfied with the joy that God gives, go instead to the things of this earth, not to experience the goodness of God as he gives gifts, receiving them with thanksgiving, but instead to find joy in the things of the earth apart from God.

And this is where man's error lies, as he enjoys wine in excess. I think it would be, first of all, helpful, as we consider this matter, to look at the passage. First of all, the phrase for led astray may very well refer to intoxication itself.

That it's saying whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise. It's not just saying that, oh, someone could become intoxicated, and as long as they're not led astray by it, that's fine. One who is intoxicated by it is necessarily led astray by it.

Moreover, as I read earlier in the previous verses, you are to note the connection between scoffing and mocking, and then this passage. And beating for the back of fools. And so, if wine is a mocker, and strong drink a brawler, then the one who consumes wine in excess, being led astray by it, is one who is preparing himself, is one who is devouring iniquity, and is preparing himself for beatings.

His back being fit for beatings, according to the previous verse. So it would be good for us to consider, first of all, that wine is a gift. God has given alcoholic properties to his creation in order for man's enjoyment.

This is something that is interesting because I feel like this is something that is very well known in almost every society throughout history and throughout the world, but our own society has a very interesting relationship with alcohol, in part because of the temperance movement some number of decades ago, and several implications from that that we still experience today, people's disposition towards alcohol.

And then secondly, it does seem that at this current era, there are a lot of people moving away from enjoying alcohol in any measure. I looked up some of the statistics on it. It's kind of hard to tell which statistics are the most notable to point out, but I'll give you one.

In 2023, 62 of people drank alcohol in some measure, right, of Americans, enjoyed alcohol in some measure. That went down to 54 in 2025. So just in two years, a drop from 62 of Americans to 54 of Americans.

And you can find statistics about how college kids are drinking less and all kinds of things, and a lot of this is good. I mean, that sounds really good, that obviously there's a lot of excess drinking in college.

It's great that fewer people are doing that. That's wonderful. Praise God. At the same time, anyone who's aware of the various things that are going on in our society, you know that there are some bad things that play there too.

Yes, it is good that people are aware of the dangers of excess alcohol, but there are so many things that are leading to this. There is just a lack of socialization in general. There's the fact that so many other kinds of drugs are available that people are turning to.

It will not take you long if you look for it to find podcasts and all sorts of things that criticize alcohol as being incredibly dangerous and then suggest marijuana as a reasonable alternative that's not dangerous at all, doesn't have nearly the harmful effects that alcohol does.

It is really incredible how anti-alcohol many people have come in our society, so it's good to just remind ourselves from some of the things in Scripture that it is a gift to man. Psalm 104 .15 says, by the way, I have many proof texts today, so I will try to state them clearly beforehand so that you can write them down.

I know that that's something I don't often do well, but I have many today to read to you. Psalm 104 .15, wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread to strengthen man's heart.

It talks about, in Psalm 104, wine being given by God to gladden man's heart. Judges 9 .13, in a metaphor that we read not too terribly long ago in our Scripture reading, a parable, but the vine said to them, shall I leave my wine that cheers God and men, and go hold sway over the trees?

That's a very interesting passage because it talks about wine not only cheering man, but also cheering God. You could ask yourself, how does it cheer God? And I think you could give several answers. One, that God is cheered in his people being cheered.

And then also, Jesus Christ himself being one who drank wine, was cheered by him being God. There are multiple ways that that could be said, that wine cheers God and men. Ecclesiastes 9 .7 says, go eat your bread with joy and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.

Deuteronomy 14 .26, describing ways to celebrate certain feasts that God had prepared for the people, and spend the money, the money that they were supposed to save throughout the year, for whatever you desire, oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves, and you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

So there it speaks even of strong drink, not just wine. If anyone were inclined to think that wine is permitted and other kinds not. Note also that Christ's first sign was to turn water into wine. The Lord's Supper has wine.

Naturally, these are things that are a good gift of God. In fact, not only are these a good gift of God that man may go to, there are some circumstances where it would even be wrong to abstain. One of the obvious ones is the Lord's Supper.

If you're a member of this church, we celebrate with actual wine. It would be wrong to abstain unless there was some serious reason that would keep you from participating. Also, 1 Timothy 5 .23 says, no longer drink only water.

And this is Paul's instruction to Timothy. No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments. So Paul commanding Timothy, take a little wine, not only water, for the sake of his stomach.

There might be times when an obstinate, stubborn abstinence would be the kind of issue that we talked about before when we looked at Colossians and what it said of asceticism. That it has the appearance of self-made religion, but it's a self-made religion and it's not actually a real kind of righteousness.

The Weaker Brother and Abstinence in Romans 14

Now, one common response that people have to this is the notion of the weaker brother in Romans 14. Romans 14 .21 says, it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

Romans 14 .3 says, let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains. Let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Okay, so in Romans, it talks about not eating meat or drinking wine or doing anything that causes your brother to stumble.

So a lot of times the argument you hear from people who have kind of mixed thoughts on it, they recognize that the scriptural arguments describing wine as a gift are true, but yet they so want to argue for abstinence, just an absolute abstinence, not for any special reason, just an absolute one by the fact that you might be around someone who would be caused to stumble if you ate this.

Yet they don't say that about meat. It is just about wine. So is that what this is for? Is Romans 14 to cause everybody in the house of God to be reduced to the lowest common denominator of legalism or concern?

Just as it said, let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. If the matter truly would cause one to stumble, that is to fall into sin, that would be wrong to tempt someone else.

However, this is not describing when it speaks of stumbling just having bad feelings about the matter. I'm trying to remember some of the terms that people use to describe this passage. A lot of them are borrowed from 1 Corinthians 8, which I believe is talking about something entirely different.

It's talking about eating food, sacrifice to idols. But it's not talking about making someone feel bad about the situation. It is instead talking about causing someone to stumble, tempting them. Okay, so we have these various passages that speak of God's gift that he has given man, and it is something that is so good.

Deuteronomy 20, verse 6 says,. And is there any man who has planted a vineyard and has not enjoyed its fruit? Let him go back to his house, lest he die in battle, and another man enjoy its fruit. It's such a good gift that God treats it as he does in the Old Testament of a wife or a new home, that if someone is newly married or has a new home, that they should not go off to war unless someone else enjoys it.

The same is true with the vineyard. They should be able to enjoy the fruit of the vineyard. And this is such an important metaphor that God uses it repeatedly to describe his own people and how they give him joy.

God's people, either Israel in the Old Testament or in the New Testament, the church, are described frequently as a vineyard, as a vineyard that brings the Lord joy as he receives its fruit. Okay, so wine, alcohol, is a gift from God.

The Serious Harms of Excessive Drinking

However, it's excess. Excess in alcohol is evil. A number of texts. Ephesians 5 .18, do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit. Galatians 5 .21, the passage that we looked at this morning that speaks of the deeds of the flesh, says envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these, it forbids all those things.

It forbids drunkenness. 1 Corinthians 5 .11 says, but now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother. If he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler, not even to eat with such a one.

And later in the next chapter, 1 Corinthians 6, 9, and 10, speaks of a drunkard as one who would not enter the kingdom of God, would not enter the kingdom of heaven. These are very serious matters that God has given us.

This is not a small thing. Many people think of excess and pleasures as small things. With wine, it is not a small thing. With none of them is it a small thing, but it's certainly not with wine. It is a mocker.

It will bring all kinds of harm against you. So just to enumerate some of the harms that excess alcohol will bring against you, first of all, if you are in any position of authority, if you have any kind of responsibility, then to consume alcohol at a point where it begins impairing you, then you will not be able to exercise your duties as you ought.

Proverbs 31, 4 through 5 says, it is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.

So why is it important in this context? Well, kings have such a heavy burden on them. They have such important things that they have to worry about that they must be especially concerned not to impair their judgment, not to be impaired in any way.

Speaking of judgment, Isaiah 28, 7 says, these also reel with wine and stagger with strong drink. The priest and the prophet reel with strong drink. They are swallowed up by wine. They stagger with strong drink.

They reel in vision. They stumble in giving judgment. Now this is talking about those who are religious authorities stumble in giving judgment, but is that not also true for anyone who has been tasked with the duty of piety, which every single Christian has in order to be able to understand the word of God and make judgments from it, even if only over your own life, rightly.

Proverbs 23, 33 says, your eyes will see strange things and your heart will utter perverse things. So your perceptions will be changed. Your perception of reality will change. And do not tell yourself, well, as long as I'm not seeing hallucinations, I'm fine.

If you are noticeably impaired, then your perceptions have changed. That is how it works. Proverbs 23, 35, they struck me, you will say, but I was not hurt. They beat me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake?

I must have another drink. This speaking of how someone becomes vulnerable by excess drink. Now, of course, this is describing an extreme situation where someone is beaten and doesn't even feel it. But even in lesser situations, you make yourself vulnerable to others.

What are the first narratives that we have in scripture of wine, of alcohol? The first two are Noah and then Lot. If you know those, the things those men make themselves vulnerable to are very evil things, right?

Noah has his nakedness exposed by one of his sons. Lot has his daughters, his daughters end up sleeping with him. And from this, you get the Ammonites and the Moabites, right? Those who afflict the people of Israel for the whole of their time.

Even in this passage that we just read from 2 Samuel, David is dealing with the Ammonites still even there. That sin of Lot making himself vulnerable is not something that just was shameful for him in his own personal life, his own daughters sleeping with him.

But then on top of that, led to afflictions for countless generations against the people of God. This is the kind of thing that you make yourself vulnerable to and your own line vulnerable to. And who doesn't know some household that has been wrecked by excess alcohol?

I'm certain pretty much everyone in here knows some household that has been absolutely wrecked by excess alcohol, people making themselves vulnerable to all kinds of destruction. Now, there are other kinds of things.

Even if... I've been focusing on sobriety, but there are other kinds of ways that someone could engage in or enjoy alcohol to excess that don't involve an impairment that would still be excess. Let me give you a few of those.

First of all, there's dependence. So you could use alcohol in a way that is not to a point where you're losing sobriety, but would still be an expression of dependence. 1 Timothy 3 .8 says,. Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

Okay, not addicted. This isn't something that should define their life. They have a need on this thing that isn't a real need. In addition to that, it can take much of your time. So if you spend a lot of time on alcohol, that's also another excess, even if you don't drink to a point where you've lost your sobriety to where you're noticeably impaired.

Proverbs 23 .30 says,. Those who tarry long over wine, those who go to try mixed wine, and this is speaking of obviously wicked men, right? And it speaks of them as tarrying long over wine. Isaiah 5 .11 says,.

Those who rise early in the morning, they may run after strong drink who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them. Now, included in that is the loss of sobriety. But if you have spent all your time on alcohol, even if you're not losing sobriety, but you're just part of the party life or whatever the case may be, this is also an excess that displeases God.

Then you could also glorify alcohol or glorify those who drink alcohol for their drinking of it. Isaiah 5 .22,. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and valiant men in mixing strong drink. So there are a number of ways to enjoy wine in excess that are not necessarily involve loss of sobriety.

So don't narrow down your thought of what excess in any pleasure is just to one single thing. Think about all the ways that you are supposed to receive God's gifts with thankfulness in a way that glorifies him and does not rob him of glory by instead spending what he has given you on worthless things.

Now, this is, as I mentioned before, a sin that condemns. 1 Corinthians 6 describes it as something where you will not enter the kingdom of heaven if you are a drunkard. Now, a lot of people think of themselves and they say, well, I'm not a drunkard.

Maybe I only get drunk once a year around Christmas or when I go to a good wedding or something like that. That's the only time I drink to excess. So I'm not defined by drunkenness. You know what starts off that list, 1 Corinthians 6, 9?

Homosexuality. Could you imagine someone saying about that? I only engage in homosexual activity once a year, maybe around Christmas, something like that. You would never accept that as an excuse, right?

You would say, no, this is something that still defines you and this is something that God has said you must turn from. Now, these things you once were, he can transform you, but you must turn from this.

This is not something that you can have in your life once a year, et cetera. So don't think that the standard is different. These are things that must not define the Christian at all. But as it says in verse 11, these things you once were, God transforms.

Joy in Christ Rather Than Excess

Now, what is it that needs to be transformed? The primary reason that people go to drink in a way of excess is because they are looking for joy. What is wine, therefore? It is there to make someone's joy complete.

Those that do not have joy, especially those who do not have joy in the Creator as they ought, will go to different means. And wine is a very obvious one to go to because of its relationship to joy. Yet, where are they supposed to find joy?

They're supposed to find joy in Jesus Christ. They're supposed to find joy in salvation. And this is evident from the ministry of Christ. How did he begin his ministry? By turning water into wine. Why is that?

To show that his ministry is one of joy, to show that he came to bring joy. And then, unlike John, mostly fasting, he ate and drank with his disciples such that he was called a glutton and a drunkard.

Now, these are things that are not true of Jesus, of course. I have heard some people argue that Jesus drank to excess and was drunk. All kinds of blasphemous thoughts. But why is it that his ministry was characterized this way when that ministry that was waiting for him, John the Baptist, was not characterized by any kind of use of wine?

It is because Christ's ministry is one of joy because he came to bring joy to his people. And then why is it that he would have us remember him by the Lord's Supper with this bread and wine? Remember, this comes from the Passover.

Jesus instituted it during the time of the Passover. Now, the Passover had bread, of course, unleavened bread to represent the people coming out of Egypt and everything. But it also had a lamb. And that's not something that we have kept in the Lord's Supper.

That's not something that Christ instituted in the Lord's Supper. So why is the wine such a significant part of it? The wine is a significant part of it because he came to bring joy. Through his shedding of blood, through the forgiveness of sins, all that guilt that weighs us down and keeps us from experiencing joy, he has washed away so that his people who trust in him are as white as snow and they have been sanctified for his purposes in order that they might be fulfilled and have a true joy.

It is excellent that wine be part of that symbol because it represents joy. It's not just because it's red and it looks like blood. That is certainly part of how God ordained all things to come to pass so that we would have that metaphor.

The Bible even talking about the blood of grapes at some points. But it is also used as a metaphor. It is also used as a sign for the salvation that we have received because it brings joy. This is one of the reasons I believe it is good to use actual real fermented wine in the Lord's Supper because while I believe the symbol is still there without it, believe it's still a valid observation of the Lord's Supper when people drink grape juice rather than wine, that wine is part of the symbol.

That fermentation is part of the symbol because it is something that brings about joy in man. That is part of the idea. Christ has brought us joy by shedding his blood for the forgiveness of sins and for our sanctification.

And then what is it that we are awaiting? Those who have been here at this church for some time know that I have, I believe it is twice here, that I have preached on Luke 22 on Jesus' abstinence that he has sworn off wine, saying that he will not drink of the fruit of the vine again until we see him.

And I look forward to, as we're going through Luke, now that was before we were preaching through Luke, now as we're preaching through Luke we will come to that passage again. And I look forward to preaching on that passage, Christ's abstinence.

Why is it that he has sworn that off? But then when we are there with him, that that is what is going to mark us joining together is a feast that will involve wine where he will drink once again. It's because he wishes for our joy to be increased, but his joy he will not make complete until he is together with us and we will all rejoice together.

The cure for a lack of joy, where many people go to wine, where many people go to fill their hearts with sinful things, enjoying the gifts that God has given, not the way he meant for them to be enjoyed, but rather in excess in ways that destroy rather than giving life, is because they do not have joy.

And where can that joy come from? It comes from knowing your Savior. It comes from knowing Jesus Christ, from understanding the precious gift of his blood that brings true joy. If you do not have joy in your life, it is because you do not know the salvation that you have received.

It doesn't matter if you are in the worst condition. It doesn't matter if you are very poor, if you have all kinds of diseases. If you know that your sins have been taken care of so that on that last day you will be with your Savior and you have contemplated him, you will have joy in your heart.

You will have the fruit of the Spirit. This is what Christ gives. Do not turn to the things of the earth. Do not turn to wine to give joy where it cannot. True joy comes from the Lord Jesus Christ. True joy comes from understanding your salvation.

In Ephesians 5 .18, Paul tells us, do not get drunk with wine for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit. Why are these comparable things? Why does he offer the alternative of the Spirit? Because the Spirit gives joy.

The fruit of the Spirit in the Christian's life is joy. And moreover, in the rest of that passage in Ephesians, it talks about singing to one another the word of Christ that dwells in us. We are to not be the drunkard who is singing nonsense songs that are not edifying to anyone, but rather maybe even just annoying people.

Rather, we are to be those who because we are so filled with the Spirit, so filled with the right kind of joy, that the words that are pouring from our mouth in song are words that are edifying and uplifting one another.

This is the alternative. It's not joylessness. It's not a fuddy-duddy abstinence that says, well, that's just too much fun. Rather, it is a true joy that comes from Jesus Christ, that comes from knowing your Savior.

If you do not have joy in your life, if you struggle with a lack of joy, spend time with your Savior. Ask Him to grant you joy by the Spirit. That command to be filled with the Spirit, you might think, well, that's not a command I can follow.

The Spirit works as He will. It is a command you can follow. He commands it. Be filled with the Spirit. You can be filled with the Spirit. You can put on the new man by turning to the means that God has given you, that the Spirit might work in you.

His Word, prayer. Go and earnestly call out to God, cry out to God for joy if you do not have joy, and He will give you joy. And He will cultivate that joy in you. This may be something that takes time as well.

I am not guaranteeing any kind of overnight transformation. He will give everything that is needed at the moment. But let me tell you, someone who recognizes this, who understands that receiving things with gratitude, that understands where joy comes from, understanding their Savior, walking with Christ, that person understanding that and walking along the formula that God has given, that we would keep in step with the Spirit, will have an increased joy such that you meet one of these older saints who is always talking about how excellent Christ has been to them, so much that it seems awkward to you as one who is younger in the faith who has cultivated that level of joy.

That will become normal for you, that your life will just be so full of joy that singing those songs, saying those things to uplift one another will become natural. And you can grow into that kind of person as the Spirit bears His fruit in your life.

And I would encourage you not to wait to begin that journey later, but rather put on the new man today. Be transformed by Jesus Christ. Be transformed by His Spirit working in you as you go to the means that He has given in order that you would know your salvation in a greater way and have a greater joy flowing up within you.

Applying Moderation to Responsibilities, Company, and Celebration

There are several applications that I would like to bring to your attention. Some of these I've already mentioned, maybe some of these I haven't. The first one is just consider your capacity for leadership.

Consider your responsibilities that you have in your life. And as you engage in any kind of excess pleasure, but especially any of alcohol, any of wine, remember that. Remember that you have responsibilities and if you are impaired in them, that would be a shameful thing before the Lord.

One of the things that has crossed my mind as I have enjoyed a drink is what if I drank too much and then I would not be ready for a call from a congregation member who needs me. That would not be, that would be such a shameful thing.

So remember your calling, remember the things that you've been called to, whatever level of responsibility it is. And if you are one who has, and every Christian is called to piety. Okay, so you should not be distracted in your piety, impaired in your piety.

If you cannot go before the Lord in clear prayer, understand the word, understand edifying words. That is not, and that is by your own hand that you have been impaired. These are not fit for the responsibilities that a Christian has.

Second, you should think about it in terms of the company that you have, the company that you keep. Proverbs 23 20 says, be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat. You should not hang out around people who glorify things that should not be glorified.

Now there is a place for being among them in order to give them the light of the gospel, as Jesus was among tax collectors and sinners, et cetera. But making friends of them such that they are an influence to you rather than you to them is not good.

Also, do not pressure anyone. Just as it says in Romans 14, it talks about not despising the one who abstains. Do not despise the one who abstains. And also Habakkuk 2 15, woe to him who makes his neighbors drink.

Woe to those who would pressure others. Okay, so you do not want to, you do not want to pressure other people. Also, you should understand that wine is a gift from God in order to assist in celebration, in order to make your joy complete.

It is not there in order to give you joy when you lack it. Okay, those are very different things. Many people go to wine and maybe not even in a way that would impair them, right? Maybe it's only small amounts, but they go to wine when they are sad as a way to cheer them up, right?

Or they, I've mentioned that with food. People will eat food in order to cheer them up when they are sad. That's not what food is for. Food is, in addition to sustaining you, it is right to feast, to eat a little more, to make rejoicing complete on occasions of rejoicing.

Okay, so wine, likewise alcohol, is there to make joy complete. Do not turn to it to give you joy where it is lacking. Those are two totally different things. And then also next week, we will likely look at medicine in moderation.

That is one of the things that the Westminster Larger Catechism speaks of. It uses the term physic. But there are so many different kinds of substances that I don't intend to address. I would just like to give a blanket kind of overview of ways that you should be thinking about other sorts of recreational substances, so not even medicines, recreational substances.

A lot of people, I have found, have difficulty discerning how they should think about other kinds of substances because they are only thinking of one aspect of them and not others. Maybe they're only thinking about dependence and they're saying, well, if I don't develop a dependence on this, this is fine.

Or they're thinking only about the kind of harm it does and they say, oh, well, if it doesn't cause any kind of real harm to me, then it's fine. Or they're thinking only about sobriety and they say, okay, well, it doesn't cause any kind of, if it doesn't impair my sobriety, then it's fine.

Every single one of those is something that you need to be concerned about. You should only enjoy any kind of substance in a measure where you do not become dependent on it, where it does not harm you, and it does not impair your sobriety.

So I often have very confused people ask about how they should think about coffee or something like that and it just hasn't even crossed their mind that there's a difference between alcohol and coffee and that one impairs sobriety and the other does not.

Yet, you should be concerned about dependence. If you're the kind of person who says, well, I can't even wake up in the morning without two cups of coffee or I'm just a miserable person to be around without a cup of coffee.

Okay, I understand that that's very common rhetoric that a lot of people find humorous, but if that is true of you, that is a sinful thing. You are enjoying coffee to excess at that point. So keep in mind each one of those things, not just sobriety, not just harm, not just dependence, but all three.

You must enjoy the gifts that God has given away that all three are involved. And also a word of caution about the number of relatively new recreational substances that exist. I get ads all the time for all kinds of substitutes for alcohol that are considered to be, you know, a safe alternative to alcohol because like I mentioned earlier, for some reason there is a very strong current against alcohol that would propose other things as being safer that I have no idea if they're safe at all.