June 20, 2025 Show with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III on “A Reformed Christian Response to the Ted Cruz-Tucker Carlson Dispute Over the Modern State of Israel & Genesis 12:3”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

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It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 20th day of June 2025, and I would appreciate the prayers of my listeners today, as today is a very bittersweet anniversary for me.

Today would have been my 34th wedding anniversary, and the Lord saw fit to take my precious bride Julie home with him back in 2010, in December of 2010, and she has been with him for eternity ever since.

But today was our wedding anniversary date, so I appreciate your prayers for me today. But I am absolutely thrilled to have one of my favorite guests of all time, and also one of my favorite guests, one of the favorite guests that I have on the program in the minds and hearts of my audience, a growing number of my audience members, who absolutely love this guest just as I do.

His name is Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, and it's been a while since Joe has been on the program, far too long, and I'm so glad that he has returned today. He is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and author of an eight-volume commentary on the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity, and the author of other books as well.

And we are going to be having a very timely discussion today. We're going to have Pastor Moorcraft give a Reformed Christian response to the Ted Cruz Tucker Carlson dispute over the modern state of Israel in Genesis chapter 12, verse 3.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

Always an honor to be on your show, Chris.

Amen. Well, the pleasure is all mine, brother. Many of our listeners will know that just recently, Tucker Carlson had an interview with Senator Ted Cruz, and I don't know the exact date that the interview took place, but I know that Tucker made it public, or at least an excerpt from it on X on June 17th.

So the interview likely just occurred three or four days ago at the most, and it turned into a very heated discussion over the issue of should America be siding with and supporting the modern nation of Israel in all they do, in all their conflicts, et cetera.

And Ted Cruz said the number one compelling factor for him, for America to support the modern-day state of Israel, was that he heard and remembered from the Bible since the days of his youth that the Lord said, I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee, and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed, referring to Israel back in the days of Genesis when it was written.

And this would have been specifically a citation from Genesis chapter 12, verse 3. And Tucker Carlson pushed back on Mr. Cruz, challenging him as to whether or not this was actually referring to today's modern state of Israel.

And we're going to have Dr. Joe Morecraft give his opinion, which is the opinion of many, if not most, Reformed Christians. So why don't you tell us about that, Joe? Is Genesis 12 .3, and even all references to Israel in the Old Covenant, can we trust that throughout the millennia that everything that God promised to that nation in the Old Covenant, should we be taking it for granted that he is intending us to view this modern state of Israel in the same way as a fulfillment of biblical prophecy?

Joe, are you there?

Yes, sir. I'm right here.

Did you hear what I said?

Yes, sir. And this is one of my favorite topics. It's one of the most important topics that we can consider. But in order to get to that question, we've got to go back to the 1600s in the colonies. America has always been shaped in its politics and in its society by its understanding of the kingdom of God.

That concept has changed through the years. And every time America changes its view on what the kingdom of God is and how it shows itself in time has caused a great change in American politics and American society.

So if you don't mind, I'd like to go back just very quickly and talk about the kingdom of God and the concept in America. Go all the way back to the 1600s with the coming of the Pilgrims, the coming of Jamestown, and the coming of English Puritans to New England and of Gary to the South.

They did not come over here just to sit on a hill, learn how to play a guitar, and wait for Jesus to come. They came over here to build a city on a hill. Now, that phrase, Ronald Reagan used to use that phrase a lot, but that phrase comes from the Puritan themselves that came over here.

They wanted to build a city on a hill. That is a nation and a society that would be based on Christianity and which would lead to the conversion of all the Indians of this continent and would also result in being a model for all the various nations of the world.

So, as a result, the colonies continued to grow and America grew from sea to shining sea. There was a phrase they used in the early 1800s called Manifest Destiny. They believed that the destiny of America was from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

In fact, I like to use a trivia question to fool people, and that is, who was the governor of Illinois, the first governor of Illinois? His portrait is in the rotunda of the capital of Illinois, and of course, most people do not know the answer to that question, not even people from Illinois, but it's got a great answer.

The first governor of Illinois was Patrick Henry. Patrick Henry was also governor of Virginia when Virginia was a nation that went from sea to sea, and Illinois was a county in Virginia. So, the early founders of this country wanted to build the kingdom of God for people how God's word wants them to build society, establish churches, create governments, and relate it to the various other governments in the world.

That view dominated on up until the middle 1700s, and then in the late 1700s, the view of the American view of the kingdom of God began to change because there was a European transplant that came to America in the late middle 1700s called Unitarianism, and Unitarianism had the same view of the kingdom of God in that it would be victorious over all the world, but that's the only similarity.

The Unitarians did not believe in the Bible as the word of God. They did believe there was a trinity. They believed that man is basically good, and he can be perfected by compulsory state-supported education and the control of society and businesses by the federal government.

And so, that view spread all over New England, and it was described in terms of progress. If the federal government can control everything, there will be sufficient progress for mankind to be perfected.

And as a result, the great Puritanism that was so strong in the early 1700s began to weaken, and it began to be replaced by Unitarianism. And as a result, by the end of the first of the 1700s, Unitarianism was the dominant religion in New England.

It had replaced the powerful Puritan Empire, and there is a book that we talked about a number of books that I've read. It's a short book, and it is readable. You can read it two or three times, and the point of the book is why the Puritan Empire in New England fell.

Why did it fall to Unitarianism when it had been so strong for decade after decade? And the name of that book is The Guise of Every Graceless Heart. The Guise of Every Graceless Heart, and it was written by a man in western North Carolina named Terry Elniff, E-L-N-I-F-F.

So, go to Amazon. It's published by a Russian news organization. Go to Amazon and buy it and read it and reread it. I've tried to memorize it. In fact, I have memorized sections of it because it is so important.

Why did Puritanism fail in North America? And the answer is, number one, it secularized its understanding of the Kingdom of God. Rather than the old Puritan view, and the Puritans always believed in a victory orientation of the Kingdom of God, another great book to read, published by Banner of Truth, written by E .M. Murray, is The Puritan Hope.

That's one of the most important books in my life. The Puritan Hope shows that throughout the life of Puritanism in England and New England, they believed in the victory of the Kingdom of Christ all over life by faithful Christian living and by the preaching and teaching of the Word of God.

But the Puritans had a weakness, just like we have a weakness today. The Puritans had a weakness, and that was, even though they were all Calvinistic and they were all Augustinian, there was a section of their thinking that was so weak that it eventually brought down their whole house.

And the way I say it, the way Eldon said it, is their Calvinism ate up their Augustinianism. Now, Augustinian, I lived in the fifth century, and I wrote great books that we ought to read, like Confessions or like The City of God.

In particular, The City of God is about the Augustinian view of the future of the Kingdom of God on Earth. It's talked about two cities, the city of man and the city of God, and the city of God was comprised of people who loved God, and the city of man was comprised of people who loved man and worshiped man.

And eventually, the city of God would win over the city of man in time and space and in history. And as long as that was a prominent view in the old Catholic Church, there were good people in the Catholic Church.

But then about the 12th century, a man named Thomas Aquinas replaced Augustine in terms of influence. And Thomas Aquinas said, although we do need the Bible to understand some things, we don't need the Bible to understand everything, and we can understand some things without the Bible by the proper use of reason.

And it was that view of reason on par with the Bible by saying that some areas of life can be understood without the Bible and by a proper use of reason that eventually spread and brought down Puritanism.

It caused humanism to rise and it took over the North. Humanism was socialistic. It believed that the kingdom of God was going to increase and the world was going to get better and better through education and through philosophy and through all these secular means.

And that came to be by the compulsory education of children by the state and the control of what man did on his own property. So by the late 1800s, early 1800s, there was that dominant religion in the North called Unitarianism, Socialism.

It didn't get anywhere in the South because the South was not influenced by Unitarianism nor by Unitarianism's understanding of the kingdom of God. The South, particularly in Presbyterian and Baptist churches, the South was still dominated by a covenantal view of life, believing that God's relationship with man is based on his covenant relationship to man.

And that covenant was a union, a communion, a fellowship that God had established with man through Jesus Christ and which man would be his people and they would enjoy that relationship through faith. So the South, the Unitarians of the North had to break the back of the influence of the Southern Christians because they had a greater influence on the federal government than the North did for a while.

And so they were for limited government. They didn't want to make the government any stronger. And they understood the kingdom of God involved Christian education, Christian churches, Christian businesses.

In fact, one man once said, and this is a great statement, he said the last nation of medieval Christendom perished in 1865. Now, what he meant by that is, is the South, during the Middle Ages, Europe tried to be Christian.

It didn't do it well. It wanted to establish Christendom where every aspect of life was dominated by Christ and by Christianity. They didn't do it well, but they tried. So we talked about the Middle Ages as Christendom.

The South wanted to establish Christendom in the South after Unitarianism had secularized Puritanism and taken over the North. The South, Unitarianism influenced the South, but the South tried to be Christian.

It didn't do it well, but it tried to be Christian. And you have some of the greatest preachers in the history of the Christian church that preached in the South in those early and middle years of the 19th century.

They kept their Christian view of the covenant and of kingdom. They believed that God's kingdom was based on the life, death, and resurrection of Christ and that it would advance through the word of God and in the power of God until the world's nations were converted to Christ.

Well, the Unitarians knew that if they are going to take over the federal government and establish a secularized nation, they had to break the back of the influence of Southern Christianity. And so they hired a man named John Brown to try to start a revolution among the slaves, which he couldn't do.

In fact, the first man he killed when he came to the South was a black man. The Unitarians started a civil war. They wanted to break their influence on Washington. And so they sent troops into the South to try to break that influence.

And the South fought to keep them from breaking that influence. Well, of course, the North Northern Unitarianism won. And if you want a great book on that history, get The Secret Six by Otto Schalk. A great book on six wealthy Unitarians that finance the military destruction of the South.

And it's a great book. You can get that on Amazon as well. The Secret Six by Otto Schalk. So by 1861, the South is in shambles. Southern Christianity, largely reformed, had been broken. Its influence on Washington had stopped.

The Unitarians were in power. And then there was a period right after the civil war called Reconstruction when the Unitarians fought to re-destroy the last remnant of Christian, the last remnant of a Christian social and moral order in the South.

With that came Unitarianism all over the United States. And this view of progress, that there will be progress, you can enter into a perfect world as it gradually evolves based on evolution, as it basically evolves, and as fit children go to public schools, and all aspects of society are controlled by the state.

So by the end—now, when do you want me to quit talking? Tell me.

You can keep going, brother.

Okay, I will. So—oh, that's what, by the way, that's what Trump said to Israel the other day, right after they bombed the nuclear facilities in Iran. Trump said to Israel, keep going. But anyway, so—.

Right. So by the late 1800s, the South was totally defeated. It had this defeatistic spirit. The great preachers that had this Christian, that once had this victory orientation, the life, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ, were now so depressed.

Particularly Robin L. Dowdy. He understood what had just happened better than some people. He understood that Christianity was broken by Northern Unitarianism. And nobody grieved as much about the fall of the South than Robert L. Dowdy.

He understood what happened. So even before the Civil War, most of the Baptists and the Presbyterians were Calvinists that had a victory orientation to life. But after the breaking of the South, by the end of the 1800s, the many former people that believed in victory of the South changed their views.

And they became defeatists. Even Dowdy himself, who stayed victory orientation all his life, nevertheless, in his systematic theology book, which was 800 or 900 pages long, he only had one short paragraph on the victory of the kingdom of God.

So that he was extremely pessimistic. And then on the shoulders of that emotional pessimism that dominated things in the North and the South, because there were still Christians in the North, and they were defeated, too, because the Unitarians had taken over their churches.

And so with this widespread American pessimism, theological pessimism stood on the shoulders of this emotional pessimism that dominated the country by the end of the 1800s. Now, what is theological pessimism?

Well, there was another view. In England, came to America, largely influenced by a man named C .I. Scofield and a Bible with notes he wrote called the Scofield Reference Bible. And he had a completely different view of the kingdom than had ever been held in America before.

We call that today several things. We call it dispensationalism. Or we call it rapturalism. Or we call it a pre-tribulation, pre-millennialism. And that is totally un-American. America never believed that.

But he spread it largely because he was conned by a group of wealthy, non-Christian Jewish businessmen in New York who were willing to pay for the publication of his Bible if he included Zionism in it.

Now, these guys were not Christian. And Scofield was a Christian. And so what's he doing making a deal with non-Christian Jewish businessmen to introduce them to America, something called Zionism? Well, here's what dispensationalism did.

So dispensationalism stood on the shoulder of American pessimism with its different view of the kingdom. And then modern socialism and liberalism and Marxism stood on the shoulders of Scofield to continue this destruction of America that we saw clearly throughout the 20th century and the 21st century and especially during the four years of Biden.

What they taught was this. They taught that man's only hope is not to try to reform or improve society. They were not Unitarian. They believed that there would not be any progress in society. The older Christians believed there would be in terms of Christ.

The Unitarians believed there would be by everybody getting better, by improving culture. But this new view now of dispensationalism taught that there's not going to be any progress in life. That the world is going to get worse and worse.

And our only hope is that a rapture will come, that Christ will cause a secret, silent rapture to take place in which all Christians will be snatched out of this world and taken to heaven. And the world will be left in the hands of non-Christians with seven years of horrible tribulation, the rise of antichrist, the persecution of Christians.

And at the end of that seven years, Christ will come back and create a 1 ,000-year government on the earth that will be predominantly Jewish. And many of Ophiel's disciples believed that there would also be the re-institution of the sacrificial system in the temple.

And at the end of that past year period, I'm not making any of this up, at the end of this 1 ,000-year period, Christ will come back and he will rule the world from his capital in Jerusalem until he's trapped in his capital by being surrounded by various anti-Christian forces, troops, tanks, and all the like.

Can you imagine? That's the second humiliation of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. So he's trapped in Jerusalem and God has to rescue him. And that's basically the worst part of this sensationalism. All through American history in the early days, they understood that our law, to enhance liberty and justice for all, that the laws of the kingdom must be based upon the law of God in the Bible.

And that if our laws are not based upon the laws of God in the Bible, then it is the kingdom of Christ, of Satan, that will prevail in this land. So Scofield, and of course the Unitarians, Scofield and his dispensationalists and raptures and people influenced by them, believed that the laws of God were for the Old Testament and not to be applied today in modern America, that they were in the old dispensation and were for the Jews and not anything today.

And that's still the popular view, unfortunately. Even many evangelicals believe it. I was on a television show one time on PBS and we were asked the question, as Christians, what do you believe should be the legal foundation of American jurisprudence and American civil law?

And all of us who were on the show said that we believe that the laws of America must be based upon the laws of God contained in Holy Scripture. And we gave such passages as Romans 13 and life. Well, they needed somebody with another perspective.

So they asked a man, a famous guy, from Dallas Seminary, which is the largest dispensational seminary in the country. They said to this famous man, do you agree with these men that biblical law should be the basis of civil law and jurisprudence in the United States and modern America?

And he said, no. And then this little reporter who didn't realize how important the question she was asking, she said to this man, well, since you're a Christian, if not biblical law, then what? And he said, the Code of Hammurabi.

Wow, really?

The Code of Hammurabi. Hammurabi was a Melonian king thousands of years ago who codified the laws of that law. And until recently, all of that was lost in the sand of Iran. The Code of Hammurabi. And another...

So anyway, I can tell you all about Syria right now.

Well, we have to go now. We have to go to our...

God has drastically changed. America comes into the 20th century. It leaves many of its strengths behind in the 18th century.

Okay, brother, we have to go to our first commercial break right now. And we can pick up where you left off.

Okay, great.

And if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back. I am still praising God for the addition of gold wealth management to the Iron Truck and Zion Radio family of advertisers. They are veteran owned and operated and built on the values of honor, courage, commitment, and service to others.

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James White here of Alpha and Omega Ministries announcing that this September I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11 a .m. I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville.

Then, on Sunday, September 21st at 1 .30 p .m. I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the Bible is the Authentic and Inerrant Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.

For more details on the Free Pastors Luncheon visit ironsharpensironradio .com. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle visit trbccarlisle .org.

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.

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I'm Simon O'Mahony, Pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost and the glory of our Triune God.

We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging and serving each other as the body of Christ. In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith and we gather around the Lord's table every Sunday.

We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org. That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners.

From all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland. Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight-volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbyterian Church built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com that's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831 that's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, send you.

Welcome back, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today is the very man who was being raved about in that commercial with Joe O 'Reilly from Ireland. Speaking of Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and we are today responding to a key moment of dispute between Senator Ted Cruz and talk host Tucker Carlson very recently when it came to a correct way of understanding Genesis chapter 12 verse 3 that is basically a blessing and a warning that all those who bless Israel will be blessed and all those who curse Israel will be cursed.

And there are many Christians today including Senator Cruz who believe that is referring in perpetuity to the nation in the Middle East even today it is referring to the modern state of Israel even though it is a secular state even though it is predominantly governed by atheists.

And if you have a question for Dr. Moorcraft, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Before the break, you basically gave us a lot of background as to what led to the climate the climate being ripe for an adoption of Zionism amongst Christians in America which of course spread throughout the world.

And the dispensationalists and others who are Christian Zionists they base a lot of their understanding on believing that the modern state of Israel which was founded in 1948 is the direct result of biblical prophecy and I want to read a couple of these biblical verses that are claimed to be evidence of the Jews returning to the land and that we should view the return of the Jews to the land to mean that the modern state of Israel founded in 1948 was a fulfillment of those prophecies.

And I'll give you a couple of these prophecies. One is Ezekiel 37 21 -25 Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land and I will make them one nation in the land on the mountains of Israel and one king will be king for all of them and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.

They will no longer defile themselves with their idols or with their detestable things or with any of their transgressions. But I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned and will cleanse them and they will be my people and I will be their God my servant David will be king over them and they will have one shepherd and they will walk in my ordinances and keep my statutes and observe them.

They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob my servant in which your fathers lived and they will live on it and they their sons and their sons forever and their sons' sons forever and David my servant will be their prince forever.

And in Isaiah 60 verses 18 -21 violence will not be heard again in your land nor devastation or destruction within your borders. But you will call your wall salvation and your gates praise. No longer will you have the sun for light by day nor for brightness.

Will the moon give you light but you will have the Lord for an everlasting light and your God for your glory. Your sun will no longer set nor will your moon wane for you will have the Lord for an everlasting light and the days of your mourning will be over now Dr. Moorcraft could we in any way interpret those verses to mean that that is what we witness in the modern state of Israel.

Well because in the 20th century Unitarians quit reading the Bible and Christians have forgotten how to read the Bible. One of the biggest frustrations in my life is that Christians who say they're Bible leavers have absolutely no idea how to read the Bible.

For instance Luke said in the last chapter of Luke quoting Jesus that the Old Testament from the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms is about him. So these prophecies in Ezekiel and Isaiah and all the rest of the prophets are messianic prophets.

Their ultimate fulfillment is in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the establishment of his kingdom when he came to earth 2 ,000 years ago all of his parables for instance are about his kingdom and it says that his kingdom came in power when he was born in Bethlehem.

And that kingdom continues to grow in power and influence until it is consummated at the end of time. And you see the parables talking about the seed. The seed of the kingdom was planted in the first century.

In the coming of Christ the seed continues to grow and develop to maturity and then throughout history and then at the end of history there will be a great day of harvest. You remember the dream that Nebuchadnezzar had that Daniel interpreted for him.

Nebuchadnezzar great Babylonian king said that he saw this statue and the head of the statue was gold the chest was silver the abdomen was bronze and the legs and the feet were iron and clay. And then he says that he saw a little stone not made by man that is made by God a little stone cast against that statue at his feet and when it hit the statue at the feet the whole statue fell down and then the little stone grew to fill the whole earth.

Now he interprets that dream for Nebuchadnezzar. He says it's a statue of the nation to the world. And the golden head is you Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian empire the chest of gold is the Persian empire not as great as Babylon but nevertheless great.

And then the abdomen of bronze is the Greeks Alexander the Great the Greeks with the Persians, Persians with the Babylonians. And then the legs of iron and clay were Rome ugly and nowhere near as powerful as the Greeks or as the Persians or as the Babylonians.

And so it's all the great nations and empires of the world built upon the principle of revolt against almighty God. And then that little stone says Daniel represented the kingdom of Christ and that stone was thrown against the statue during the time of the legs the iron and the clay that is during the days of the Roman Empire that caused the whole statue to fall.

Now can you think of something that significant that took place during the days of the Roman Empire. Yeah it was the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ his incarnation and his life and his death and his resurrection.

And it was the coming of the king of the kingdom and his kingdom that guaranteed the defeat of all nations in rebellion against God and the universal establishment of his kingdom over all the kingdoms of this world.

So we could go on over and over and over that the prophecies of the Old Testament are about Christ and his church. For instance the names of Israel in the Old Testament became metaphors for the church even in the Old Testament.

In the New Testament the church is called Israel the church is called the sons of Abraham. And it's given all kinds of Old Testament names. But even in the Old Testament itself like in the book of Psalms and in the book of Isaiah and Jeremiah finished preaching through Jeremiah talking about all these things that these names with Jerusalem or Zion or the seed of Abraham were all metaphors not just for the liberal city but for the church of almighty God.