Called to Die — Michael L. Brown

I'm Dr. Michael Brown. Good morning. How many of you are here today? Raise your hands if you're here. I'm glad that I'm here with you. I somehow have a habit of the first day meeting in these sessions thinking that they're 10 instead of 930.

But the one thing I knew is I couldn't be late for this session because I was speaking. So, anyway, I just want to tell you briefly about our school and some of the things that are happening there. And then we're going to get into the word together.

We're kind of in a dream world right now in the midst of the revival. On the one hand, it's real life, it's real battle, it's intense, it's difficult, it's challenging. It's the hardest work, it's the most severe attack that any of us have ever known.

A Prayer for Revival, Clarity, and Obedience

In Jesus' name, to open the eyes of our understanding, Lord. Lord, and to free us from the habit of hearing another message and being hearers of your word only and not doers. God, give us focus, give us clarity.

May we put our defenses down. May we truly give ourselves to your purposes. May you show us, Father, what it's going to take for the fires of revival to spread throughout this world. Lord, I'm asking you not to hold back truth from us, but to be ruthlessly and lovingly honest with us, Father.

Remove the scales from our eyes that we may see. Remove the crust from our heart that we may receive and hear. May we be doers of your word and so be blessed. May we glorify you by life or by death. In Jesus' name, amen.

Amen, you can be seated. Turn with me to Matthew, the 10th chapter. If you want a message title, I have kind of an upbeat, happy, feel-good, ear-tickling title. Called to Die. Does anyone have a watch on?

Anyone tell me what time it is? 1030. Matthew 10. Before I read this scripture, I want to tell you where I'm going and why I believe the Holy Spirit has laid this on my heart. Most of the time in the revival, I play the role of teacher.

In our day sessions, Friday and Saturday, in our school of ministry. When I go out, I'm primarily preaching. Here in these pastors' conferences, this is not so much a teaching as more a word from the Lord.

Preaching, seeking to stir things in you and change things in you. We've been in the midst of a glorious outpouring here for three and a half years. And God has been moving in other parts of the country and other parts of the world for years before that.

Revival and America’s Moral Crisis

On the one hand, the church has never seen a day like today. On the one hand, we are seeing the greatest moves of God. The most people coming into the kingdom. The most rapid growth of the church anywhere in world history.

This generation is living in it. The greatest harvest of souls around the world is taking place in front of our eyes in this generation. And there's a lot to be thankful for. There's a lot to glorify God for.

Many of you have testimonies that are absolutely sensational. How God revolutionized your life. How God sent the fire of revival to your church, to your community. How awesome things are taking place.

How you're living in a dream world. I don't deny that for a split second. And yet I see that we are still in a total crisis here in America. I see that starting here is a point of reference with revival fires burning here and in other churches around America for several years now.

The nation is still in a total mess. Total stupor. Morally insensitive. Young people shooting each other up in schools. Abortion still as legal as it's ever been. Homosexuals still as militantly out of the closet as they've ever been.

Trash on television. Trash in the movies. Selling as well as it ever has. No moral conscience in the government it seems. We're in a crisis here. And then you go around the world. I preach often in Europe.

There are many European nations that have had the gospel for centuries. That have less than 1 of their population born again. There are other vast countries like India that have had the gospel since the first century.

And yet maybe 2 -3 of that vast nation knows the Lord. That nation grows at the rate, the population of Australia is about 17 million people. India grows by the population of Australia every year. So many millions of people being born that don't know Jesus.

Something has to change if we're really going to see revival fires spread to the ends of the earth. Something has to change if we want to see America shaken. Something has to change even if we want to see a harvest of 10 in some of these countries.

Instead of 1 or 2%, just 10 which is still a small minority. Even if that was our vision, something has to change. You say we need more of the outpouring of the Spirit. We need God to do more. We need more power.

We need more anointing. We need more authority. That's all true to a certain extent. But I tell you the greatest problem is that God needs more of us. The greatest problem is not on God's side. The greatest problem is not what He's giving.

The greatest problem is what we're giving. There's something more that God is after. We're going to have to change our whole mentality. If we're really going to see the move of God go to the ends of the earth.

If we're really going to see our nation shaken with the gospel. It's going to call for a total reassessment of how we live and what it really means to follow Jesus. Matthew 10 verse 16. Jesus speaking to the 12.

It applies to the 70 and on a certain level it applies to all of us. I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard against men.

They will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. He's just telling them this is what's coming if you're going to follow me. This is what's coming. On my account you'll be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.

But when they arrest you do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say. For it will not be you speaking but the spirit of your father speaking through you.

Isn't it amazing we love to quote that when we haven't prepared a message. That the Holy Spirit's just going to speak through us spontaneously. It's got nothing to do with that. We love to pull that out.

We don't like to claim the other part. Lord I'm claiming the promise that you're going to speak through me. And that I shouldn't premeditate what I should say. We'll also claim the promise that you'll be flogged in synagogues.

Brother will betray brother to death. And a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. All men will hate you because of me. But he who stands firm in the end will be saved.

When you're persecuted in one place flee to another. I tell you the truth you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. A student is not above his teacher. Nor a servant above his master.

It is enough for the student to be like his teacher. And the servant like his master. What happened to our master? What happened to our teacher? How is he viewed? How is he treated? If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub.

The devil himself. How much more the members of his household. So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed. Or hidden that will not be made known. What I tell you in the dark speak in the daylight.

What is whispered in your ear proclaim from the roofs. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Verse 37.

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. Anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

The Call to Take Up the Cross

Whoever finds his life will lose it. And whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Let's say you didn't know anything about Christianity. Let's say you didn't know anything about the gospel. And you just started reading the words of the New Testament.

You would be in for a little bit of a shock. In the Beatitudes Jesus not only pronounces blessings. On the merciful and on the meek. And on the pure in heart. And on the poor in spirit. And on the peacemakers.

He pronounces blessings on the persecuted. Matthew 5 verses 10 through 12. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness. And then he turns and speaks a direct blessing. Blessed are you. People hate you and they revile you and they insult you.

When they say all kinds of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice and be glad. That's how your fathers treated the prophets of old. Your reward is great in heaven. You're blessed when you're persecuted.

He says in Matthew 16. If anyone wants to come after me. If anyone wants to be my disciple. He must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Every single one of us is called to bear the cross.

Every single one of us is called to follow in the Savior's footsteps. Those themes repeated in Mark, in Luke. You get to John's gospel. And Jesus says unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies.

It remains alone. But if it dies it bears much fruit. He tells his disciples in John chapter 15. Verses 18 to 21. If the world hates you remember it hated me first. And remember the world will treat you exactly the same way it treated me.

Because it doesn't know my father and it doesn't know me. John 16 verses 1 and 2. He tells his disciples right there. You're going to be put out of synagogues. In fact the time is coming when whoever kills you.

Thinks he's doing a service to God. And then in John 21. Verses 18 and 19. He tells Peter how he's going to be hung up to die. You know what it says? He told this to Peter to show him by what death he would glorify God.

You're just reading through the New Testament. You don't know anything about Christianity or about the gospel. And you're reading through these words. He's telling Peter by what death he's going to glorify God.

Then you get into the book of Acts. The apostles are flogged. What does it say in Acts 5 .41? They left the Sanhedrin rejoicing. That they were counted worthy to suffer reproach for the Savior. Then you get into the 7th chapter.

Stephen's killed. 12th chapter. James is killed. Paul persecuted through the whole book. You get to the teaching in the epistles. What does it say in Romans 8 .17? That we'll reign with Him. We'll be co-heirs with Him.

If we suffer with Him. Letter after letter after letter. The same themes Paul writes to the Philippians. In Philippians 1 .29 and tells them. To you it's given. It's your privilege on behalf of the Messiah.

Not only to believe in Him. But also to suffer for Him. Paul's on a hard cry in Philippians 3 .10. Is that he can enter into the fellowship of the sufferings of Jesus. Along with the power of His resurrection.

You get into 2 Timothy 3 .12. And Paul expressly says. All those who live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. These are just the facts of life. He's saying you're in a hostile world. You're in a world that crucified the Messiah.

You're in a world that doesn't know God. You're in a world that bows down to the prince of this age. The devil himself. And when you follow Jesus there's going to be a life and death conflict. And everyone will have to take up the cross.

Everyone will have to deny themselves. Everyone will have to suffer in this world. Everyone will have to die to their own rights. And die to their own agenda. And die to their own purposes. And some might even physically have the privilege of laying down their lives for the gospel.

I'm not talking about dying in a car crash. I'm not talking about dying of cancer. The calamities that this world suffers. Are calamities that everybody suffers. And if anything as people of God we have promises of protection and deliverance.

I'm talking about willing choices that we make that cause us to lay down our lives for the gospel. Then you get into the book of Revelation. And I'm just sampling verses through the New Testament. Get into Revelation chapter 2 verse 10.

As Jesus speaks to the church in Smyrna. And he's telling them hard times are coming. And the devil's gonna put some of you in prison. To try you for 10 days. And after 10 days I'll deliver you and all be well.

But you'll be put in prison 10 days. What? Hang on I just misquoted that. Sorry. I gave an American interpretation to it. A contemporary interpretation. He says devil's gonna put you in prison. For 10 days.

Be faithful to the point of death. And I'll give you the crown of life. Steve preached not too long ago in Revelation 12, 11. They overcame by the blood of the lamb. By the word of their testimony. They loved not their lives even to the point of death.

And he made the observation that we don't like to preach on the third part of that very much. We love to preach on the power of the blood of the lamb. And the power of the word of our testimony. But not of the power of consecration even to death.

Martyrdom and the Witness of the Early Church

This is just the language of the New Testament. Now let me step back for a minute. And I assure you by the time we are done. You're thinking your perspective is gonna be changed. I'm just hitting you with scripture truth now.

But in a little while your whole perspective is gonna be changed. And God's gonna give you a challenge. To be a vessel of his glory to the ends of the earth. To be one that can be touched by the fire of God.

And take it to the ends of the earth. You start to look at the New Testament leaders. John the Baptist, the forerunner of Jesus. Off with his head. Stephen, boldly confronting religious hypocrisy. Stone to death.

Both of those men died because they were not trying to save their lives. They were trying to be witnesses. I wonder what would happen to us if we did not try to save our lives. But we tried to be faithful witnesses.

I wonder how that might play out. I wonder if some of our so called wisdom might not be also mixed with cowardice. You know you go through the apostolic leaders. According to church tradition. Everyone except John was killed.

When Jesus said you're gonna have to take up your cross and follow me. Grain of wheat has to die if it's gonna bring forth a harvest. Every one of those men except John. Who was exiled after torture according to tradition.

Every one of them pays with their lives. Paul pays with their lives. I mean picture you're training people for leadership. Say how come we need to keep training so many people for leadership? This must be a progressive company here.

You must be constantly expanding and starting new businesses and new branches. How come you keep needing new top line leadership? Oh because once you get to the top you get killed. Who wants a promotion in that business?

This is just reality. This is just what people experienced. And the New Testament church was unstoppable. With all its problems and blemishes and flaws that you read about. And the epistles and the letters to the churches in Revelation.

This church was unstoppable. They even said. One of the early leaders. The blood of martyrs is the seed of the church. That's the way the quotes been shortened for us. You think going to the second century.

You read the names of some of the most important leaders in the church. Polycarp. Killed, burned at the stake. Ignatius. Killed. This is what he says on his way to be martyred in Rome. He says I am the wheat of God.

And I'm ground by the teeth of the wild beasts. That I may be found the pure bread of God. This was the language of the believers in the first and second centuries. Do you understand that? We've often heard that the Greek word for witness is martyr.

That's not exactly accurate. The Greek word for witness. Martus. Martiros. Meant witness. That's what it meant. It had nothing to do with death. But because so many of the early Christians. In order to be witnesses.

Had to die. That the word became martyr. Do you understand? That to be a witness meant. You're going to die. To be a witness meant. You're going to lay your life on the line. To be a witness and to be faithful.

Could well cost you your blood. Men, your wives might say goodbye to you in the morning. As you went off for your day of work. And might never see you again. Why? Because you were going to be a witness.

Laodicea’s Wealth and Smyrna’s True Riches

It's interesting. That when you look in the book of Revelation. There's seven letters to the churches there. That two of them are commended without rebuke. Smyrna and Philadelphia. And the two that get the strongest rebuke are Sardis and Laodicea.

Let's contrast Laodicea with Smyrna. Laodicea. You say I'm rich, increased in wealth and have need of nothing. The prosperous church. The church that seems to have everything it needs. Impressive to everyone.

You say I'm rich, increased in wealth and have need of nothing. And you don't realize you're wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. The church in Smyrna. I know your poverty and your afflictions. And yet you're rich.

One was rich in this world and had nothing of God. And the other had very little in this world and had everything of God. The church of the 20th century. The church throughout America. The church throughout Europe.

The church throughout countries like Australia, New Zealand. Prosperous parts of the world. Parts of the world that for the most part are not affected by persecution. That church has grown soft. Listen to what A .W. Tozer said.

That this world is a playground instead of a battleground. Has now been accepted by the vast majority of fundamentalist Christians. George Failing said this. We Christians have given Calvary to the communists.

They accept deprivation and death to spread their gospel. While we Christians reject any gospel that does not major on healing and happiness. Communism in its early days spread through great sacrifice and great commitment to principle.

Even though it was a totally destructive thing. Another Christian leader said this. We are losing our Christianity because Christianity is a creed for heroes. While we are mainly harmless, good natured people who want everybody to have a good time.

American Comfort and the Temptation of Temporal Treasures

One of my friends. I've got other friends here that work with him. In the former Soviet Union. He and his wife and three kids. In Kazakhstan. In the middle of nowhere preaching the gospel to Jews that don't know Jesus.

And one of his newsletters. This is just a regular couple that just said we've got to get up and do something. We've got to give our lives to God. We've got to touch people that don't know the Lord. We've got to touch people that have never heard.

One of his newsletters. He said something and I just jotted it down. He said by the world standards we Americans face the greatest temptation. In respect to being lured away from God's true riches by temporal treasures.

Our refrigerators are filled with food. As we relax in our climate controlled homes. Firing our remote controls at color TV and CD stereo systems. Leaving only to drive our air conditioned cars to the nearest blockbusters video store.

Later to load the latest movies into our VCR as we launch and lounge on our comfortable couches. The rest of the world in the meantime struggles to survive another day. That paints a picture doesn't it?

I've often joked about this but in America. Sacrifice is defined as the remote control on the VCR isn't working. And I have to get up and walk all the way across the living room to. And you know I got a big living room.

It's a real sacrifice to press that button. We read these things about death. We read these things about imprisonment. We read these things about laying down your life. We read these things about called to die throughout the scriptures.

Bonhoeffer said when Christ calls a man he bids him come and die. And they're just words to us. There's very little reality. Even the sting of persecution. Persecution to us for most of us. We've got some folks from around the world that have really suffered persecution.

But for most of us persecution is. Person gave me a dirty look because I had a Christian bumper sticker. They probably gave you a dirty look because you cut them off. Because you were so busy praising the Lord you didn't see where you were driving.

That's probably why they gave you a dirty look. But I mean that's about the extent of our persecution. People at work don't talk to me too much. We know very little about suffering for the gospel. You say where are you going with this brother?

Are you about to call us all the street preachers in Saudi Arabia? I mean where are you going with this? Stay with me. How many of you know who C .T. Studd is? That's one of our problems I think also in this generation.

We don't know a lot of the heroes of the faith. The model that we have. And it may be a godly man or a godly woman preaching on television. But that's pretty much the model that we have. Or a godly man or a godly woman standing behind a pulpit in a lovely sanctuary like this.

That's the model we have. The model of the godly Christian athlete is someone who's making $6 million a year. But always keeps themselves composed. And at the end of their victory glorifies Jesus. Or when they knock out their opponent in the boxing ring.

And the guy's laying there unconscious bleeding from his eyes. His nose broken. Concussion. That you know you stand up after making $30 million. And say I can only do this by the Lord Jesus. I have to give him all the honor and glory.

Because I can only do this by him. As the guy's laying there maimed. I mean those are the models that we have. Not like C .T. Studd who just left everything. And some of these people right where they are in the midst of sports and other things are godly witnesses.

And God bless them and God's using them. But the models that we have are not the models saying I don't need $10 million a year. I don't need $1 million a year. I don't need $100 ,000 a year where I'm going.

Because I'm going to preach the gospel to people I've never heard. Oh but you sacrificed your whole career. Think you could have had hours of highlights on videos. Reverse slam dunks. The greatest home run of all time.

What an awesome kick. I don't believe that in heaven when someone scores a tremendous goal in football or soccer. When someone breaks a record hitting a home run that all the angels stand up and God says oh did you see that shot.

Whoa. I don't believe that you know when we go before heaven that a Christian athlete is going to be there. And the Lord Jesus is going to ask him for his autograph on a baseball or a football or basketball.

Those things just do not matter. We make them into gods. We elevate them as if they're so important. We bow down to that. Those things consume us. Fashion, entertainment, sports, materialism. We are idol worshippers.

C .T. Studds said he was born in an aristocratic family. One of the wealthiest most prominent families in all of England. He and his brother were master cricket players. He could have been one of the great sportsmen of his whole generation.

He left everything. First went to China. Then ended up spending the rest of his life in Africa. Labored, sacrificed for souls and that made sense. I'll tell you when one of those Africans came to Jesus.

Heaven stood up and took notice of that. Hallelujah. Our missions director at our school just showed me a picture. He wanted me to see this man. He said listen nobody ever preached to this tribe in Africa.

They were just there earlier in the year. Nobody would go preach to them. Nobody ever reached them. We sat down with the chief. And we shared the gospel message with him through an interpreter. There's the picture of the chief.

And he kept saying wow. Wow. The Wallach people. Wow. And wow meant I completely agree. This is absolutely right. And he began to say Jesus Christ is the light that we need. This is a wonderful. The guy got wonderfully converted.

The chief of the whole tribe. And John our missions director said but nobody ever went and told them the message. I'll tell you heaven took notice of that. Heaven said look at that. They didn't say look at that when a home run record was broken.

And thank God people great athletic achievement. Wonderful. Pushing their bodies to the limit. Wonderful. Fine. Beautiful artwork. Beautiful music. Fine. Wonderful. But that doesn't matter. The angels don't take tours of our picture galleries.

But they peek down over the balcony when people are getting right with God. That's what excites them. That's what stirs them. That's what matters in the light of eternity. All the other stuff is going to burn.

You got to ask yourself are you putting most of your energy and effort and time and desire into things that are just going to burn. C .T. Studd said the first five years when he and his family lived in China.

Five years. There was not a day when they left their house without a barrage of curses from the neighbors coming at them. Five years. When God was challenging C .T. Studd about his future he read this track written by an atheist.

The Atheist’s Challenge to Consistent Christian Living

I don't know if you've ever seen this. About this time he says I met with a track written by an atheist. It read as follows. This is an atheist. God used it to challenge C .T. Studd. Did I firmly believe as millions say they do that the knowledge and practice of religion in this life influences destiny and another.

Religion would mean everything to me. I would cast away earthly enjoyments as dross. Earthly cares as follies. And earthly thoughts and feelings as vanity. Religion would be my first waking thought and my last image before sleep sank me into unconsciousness.

I should labor in its cause alone. I would take thought for the morrow of eternity alone. I would esteem one soul gained for heaven worth a life of suffering. Earthly consequences should never stay my hand nor seal my lips.

Earth its joys and its griefs would occupy no moment of my thoughts. I would strive to look upon eternity alone and on the immortal souls around me soon to be everlastingly happy or everlastingly miserable.

I would go forth to the world and preach to it in season and out of season and my text would be what shall it profit a man if he gained the whole world and lose his own soul. And Studd said I at once saw that this was the truly consistent Christian life.

When I look back upon my own life I saw how inconsistent it had been. I therefore determined that from that time forth my life should be consistent and I set myself to know what was God's will for me.

False Zeal and Christian Sacrifice

Challenged by an atheist. Let me talk to you for a minute about martyrdom. Why is it in the Middle East right now that Hamas terrorists blow themselves up? Young men blow themselves up to take other lives.

Well why do they do it? You know there's a long line of them ready, ready and willing. Listen to the way they think. These are the words of Hamas. But he who takes up a gun, a dagger, a kitchen knife or even a pebble with which to harm and kill the enemies of the faith has his place assured in heaven.

An Islamic state is a state of war until the whole world sees and accepts the light of the true faith. This is the word of an Islamic leader actually from Iran. Or here, listen to this. This is the mother of a Hamas terrorist referring to her son's suicide bombing on the last Sunday of December 1994.

Wounded 13 people took his life. What did she say? This is the mother. I am very happy that my son has reached paradise. He has made us very proud and brought dignity to the entire family. I don't feel pain and I'm not crying.

This is like a wedding. Now listen to me. This is demonic. This is devilish. This is destructive. This is the taking of lives. And yet there's a mentality. I'm willing to lay my life down for this cause.

That's why suicide bombers are so effective. Because you can't stop it. Because people are willing to give everything. If people were willing to blow themselves up on a plane, security would be almost impossible.

Why do they have that mentality? Because they're disillusioned with this present world. Because they have a strong hope in an afterlife. And because they're willing to die for the principles they stand for.

That's what the devil has put into people for destruction. What about pioneers? What about soldiers who fight for a country? Here's a man, 1947, was fighting for the statehood of Israel. And was captured and was going to be put to death by the government.

He's a young man. Listen to what he said. Of course I want to live. Who does not? Let me just say this. The Bible is full of references to loving life and being blessed by God in this life. And His joy is our strength.

There's nothing morbid about God. There's nothing dismal and dreary about God. Heaven is not depressing. And the most glorious scenes that you get in the word are like Stephen being stoned and looking up to heaven and seeing Jesus.

We're not talking about something God forsaken. We're talking about something glorious. We love life in that we give ourselves fully to do the work of God. We enjoy what He's given us. We enjoy our families.

We enjoy our fellowship. We enjoy the blessings of this world. But we understand we are passing through. And we understand our life is not for us but for the purposes of God. We're here to fulfill God's purposes.

Period. There's no other reason why we are here. Heaven is better than anything we'll have here. Listen to what this young man said. Of course I want to live. Who does not? But if I am sorry that I am about to finish, it is mainly because I did not manage to do enough.

He's not a religious man. Not a godly man. Just a man who wanted to see statehood in Israel as a Jew. I too could have let the future fend for itself taking the job I was promised or left the country altogether and lived securely in America.

But that would not have given me satisfaction as a Jew and certainly not as a Zionist. He said what I have to do as a Jew is stand up for what is ours and be ready for battle even if in some instances it leads to the gallows.

This is how America was founded with a similar spirit. Give me liberty or give me death. A similar attitude. And that was just for something in this world. He said I write these lines 48 hours before the time fixed by our oppressors to carry out their murder.

And at such moments one does not lie. He's going to be hung in 48 hours. I swear that if I had the choice of starting again I would choose the same road regardless of the possible consequences for me.

A Living Sacrifice and the Great Commission

Let me talk to you about the church now. And I'm going to encourage you today. But I'm going to encourage you by calling you to be a living sacrifice. I'm going to encourage you by calling you to give your lives unconditionally to the fulfilling of the great commission by life or by death.

To unconditionally give yourself to see God's purposes fulfilled in you. And I want to say this honestly. I've written books with similar challenges through the years. And I examine my heart. I lay on my face before God because I'm a rich American.

I don't mean I'm rich compared to other Americans. I mean I'm an American with plenty. Therefore I'm a rich American compared to the rest of the world. I've got a beautiful home. I drive a comfortable vehicle.

I've got a big office with a massive library of books. One thing I don't have is a fancy wardrobe. But that's just the way it is. And I ask myself what gives me the right to say this? I haven't been put in prison for Jesus.

I was put in prison once briefly in a pro-life rally thing. That was a few hours. In fact, I remember when we were on the bus and we were being taken away. They had these handcuffs on, these plastic handcuffs that were really tight and really hurting.

And one of the guys was really in a lot of pain. And he was asking one of the police officers could they please loosen the handcuffs. And I said, come on man. I said, we don't get to suffer anything ever.

At least have a little pain, you know. We're not going to die of this. It's not going to be babies. At least we get to say we suffered a little bit for standing up for a cause, you know. I've been in some situations in India where I knew if I preached a certain message it was going to be life-threatening.