Apologia TV Interview with Tim Bayly

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Welcome back everybody to Apologia TV. My name is Jeff Durbin. They call me the Ninja.

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Around the world and we herald the gospel and provide a defense of the biblical Gospel and you can do so at Apologia studios .com.

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I'm joined here by Joy the girl. Hello and Zack attack, what's up? Y 'all Zachary Conover director of communications for end abortion

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Now I want to encourage you all to go to end abortion now calm you when you do and sign up there you get free training

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And free resources and you join the over 250 local churches across the country who are out saving lives literally saving lives this very day and preaching the gospel and serving and Providing for many mothers and fathers outside those abortion mills.

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So that's what's going on. Very important show We are going to be talking about today then at least one of the aspects of the show is we're gonna be talking about a book the grace of Shame grace of shame by Tim Bailey, and I'm sure that'll take us a number of different places

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But Zach, I'll go ahead and have you introduce. Well, if you guys don't have this book first of all, please you guys need to get It it's phenomenal.

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I would definitely recommend picking it up But a little bit about our guest today pastor Tim Bailey has pastored clear note

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Church in Bloomington since 1996 His MDM is from Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. He was ordained by the

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Presbyterian Church and served there from 1983 to 91 with his first congregation He then transferred into the

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Presbyterian Church in America where he served from 91 to 2010 He's now a member of clear note fellowship while pastoring

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Pastor Bailey has also worked as executive vice president of Presbyterians pro -life in the 80s and early 90s

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Then executive director of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood from the late 90s until 2001

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He's the author of Daddy Tried and the Grace of Shame. He writes Lee He is married to Mary Lee since 1976 and the

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Bailey's have five children and 25 grandchildren That's amazing. That is awesome.

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Wow, that's global conquest Taking dominion right there being fruitful and multiplying a lot.

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All right, so Mr. Bailey, thank you for joining us brother Absolutely, so Presbyterians are our favorite just so you know

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We're Reformed Baptist here, but we love our Presbyterian brothers and sisters So a lot of things been happening recently brother in terms of we have the revoice conference that just happened

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And there's a lot of controversy and a lot of discussions surrounding this particular issue, of course of Homosexuality homosexual identity and those sorts of things same -sex attraction

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But in particular it's important because now we are dealing with this not as something external happening outside of the church we need to speak to but we have sort of a

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Reformation of our thinking around the area of same -sex attraction and it's an important issue because of course we're talking about something that's actually occurring within the faith and People are being asked to think about this in all new ways

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So in light of the book the grace of shame in light of the rebourse conference I'd love to hear from you in terms of what's on your mind right now because you've written about this and you obviously see

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What's going on? So, how are you thinking about this today? well, I Lived with my wife in Madison, Wisconsin went to UW Madison lived in San Diego lived in Boulder Worked at first press in Boulder, Colorado, and now we're in Bloomington.

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So we've been around university communities and in university communities and especially in Bloomington We have a large number of people who are involved in various forms of sexual sin and of course the most common one other than fornication is actually homosexuality both lesbians and Gays, and so I don't know maybe four or five years ago.

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I began to notice that the conservative Church, particularly the Reform Church, particularly the men involved with gospel coalition were caving on the issue it was like a

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Obergefell hit and everybody ran for cover and but they were very very sophisticated in how they were doing it and Because we have always had people who have repented of homosexuality in our church

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I would say that we have maybe a little bit more of an awareness of the issues

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And then many people do and it's not hypothetical to us It's the souls that we care for and love and so it became clear that the church was was

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Caving and I would say and and so that's where that book came from the grace of shame

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My wife just kept saying you have to write on this It just has to be done because it was so sneaky what was going on And so we wrote the book

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It was difficult to write because it was the first time that I Ended up having to take a position against men like Al Moller But that's those were the sources the

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PCA Covenant Seminary These were the sources of if you don't mind me saying the bad karma

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And So there was a period of time where I really didn't want to write the book

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I didn't want to work on it It was a thankless task But we gave ourselves to it and then revoiced it and I honestly

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I Can't believe the chutzpah of the people behind revoiced But even worse than that is the denial of so many well -known

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Christian leaders Especially the PCA about what's going on and how serious it is. Yes. Yes now you mentioned brother.

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You said sneaky now Immediately it alerts me to something very important that I I think

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I know what you're getting at and I agree with you Can you help us with that when you say? Sneaky, it's important for us to understand just what is so devastating and important to understand about what's being done here

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So we got about a minute and a half in this in this segment. So go ahead and you lead us into that What do you mean by sneaky? Well, the best example is gospel coalition running a headline on their website that says godliness is not heterosexuality

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Mm -hmm, and and it's just a lie. It's it's a sneaky lie It's an equivocation because they're using heterosexuality in the title to refer to a position that's opposite Homosexuality, that's how everybody thinks of the word heterosexuality today, but then in the article they say that you know heterosexuals rape well

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That's a different meaning of the word heterosexuality in the headline it's as opposed to homosexuality and the the fact is that God created

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Heterosexuality and in that sense it is holy and this is what is happening again And again words are being used in two different ways such that people who aren't on the ball and aware of it

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Are led astray by this as I said this sneaky use of words

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Yes All right, so brothers and sisters. I encourage you guys to stay

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Tuned stay with us in this episode. We're gonna talk about some vitally important issues. I Really appreciate what

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Tim has to say on this issue I have talked to a lot of men about Tim and what he said and what he's done and the importance

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Value to us as a church in terms of listening to him and understanding these issues from a biblical perspective in particular what he's actually