Sept 21, 2026 Show with Gary Morrison on “A Conversation on Biblical Revival”

Biblical Revival and the Marks of Genuine Spiritual Renewal

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 21st day of September 2026.

Before I introduce to you my first-time guest and our topic, I want to remind all men in ministry leadership that next Thursday, October 1st, from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, I'm going to be conducting my next free biannual Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, and we're going to be featuring for the very first time ever as our keynote speaker, Dr. David A. Harrell, and he is pastor of Calvary Bible Church in Jolton, Tennessee, and he is a prolific author.

He'll be speaking on the theme of one of his books, Why America Hates Biblical Christianity. As always, this is absolutely free. The admission is free, your lunch is free, and every man attending will receive one and possibly two heavy sacks of free brand-new books personally selected by me and donated by generous Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom, and I keep hearing from the folks at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, that the books are continuing to arrive there.

We thank God for folks such as Founders Press, who shipped out enough copies of Tom Askell's new book, For Every Man. We thank God for The Banner of Truth, who have also donated enough books, For Every Man, and the New American Standard Bible Publishers are shipping out today their version of the scriptures, For Every Pastor, there.

And I could go on and on with the publishers who continue to be generous to us in some first-time publishers who have not given to us in the past, who are very new, actually, who are giving to us for the first time.

So we are just thrilled about this, and if you would like to register, email me your registration to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com. As always, give us your full name, the full name of your church or parachurch ministry, its location, and the number of men who will be joining you.

That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Well, today I have joining us for the very first time a brother whose smiling face and unmistakable South African accent are always present at my pastor's luncheons, or at least at most of them that I can remember.

His name is Pastor Gary Morrison. He is a native of Durban, South Africa, who since 2010 has pastored Trinity Baptist Church of Allentown, Pennsylvania. Today we're going to be addressing a conversation on biblical revival, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to our Interpreting Zion Radio, Pastor Gary Morrison.

Thank you very much, it's an extreme privilege for me to be here, thank you.

And how long, I don't know if you know exactly how long it's been, but can you remember how many years ago your first visit to the pastor's luncheon was?

I think it was in your previous venue, and the speaker was somebody that we both know, Conrad M. Bearway.

No, that was probably at the Bon Geno Conference Center then, and Carla. Yeah, I think that rings a bell, yes, yes. Yeah, so you've been at all of the luncheons in Loisville, Pennsylvania, Church of the Living Christ.

Yes. Praise God. Well, tell us something about the Trinity Baptist Church of Allentown.

It's a church that's been around for about 55 years, I think it's close to 55 years. For many years, it was pastored by Pastor Ray Martin, who when he retired, was when they called me to the church, and I think he retired after about 35 or more years of pastoring the church, and he still remains an elder and actively involved in ministry as well.

Ben, can you tell us something about the theological makeup of the church?

Well, we're a 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith church, so absolutely, that's where we're at.

And was it a Reformed Baptist church for all of those 50 plus years?

To the best of my knowledge, yes. The church broke away, or a number of people broke away from or left another church to start Trinity Church. I mean, the full name is Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, but they sort of cut the Reformed out just to make it more easier for people.

So it was started because people were coming to a conviction of the doctrines of grace. So yeah, I think it's always been a 1689 confessing church.

And the connection that you have with your native homeland of South Africa, even though you've been living here in the States for many years and have become a citizen here. Not yet. Oh, not yet? Not yet.

Should I be contacting the authorities right now?

I won't disclose my residential address for those reasons. My wife and family and I, we left South Africa in 1999 and we moved to the UK. And I was pastoring a church in the UK and my wife and children were British.

My children are British by nature of their mother being British. And so I became naturalized when I was there. So I'm still a British citizen. And my wife and I are actually going to become American citizens.

We've been here since the 20, yeah, I don't know, 15, 16 years, it's just hard to tell.

But my main point that I was trying to bring up is, do you not still have ministerial relationships with South Africa, with the conferences or something like that?

I was involved when I was in the UK with Conrad Mbewe and others, a friend of mine in England, Raymond DeZulu, and through Errol Hulse and Irving Steggles, two prominent sort of Reformed Baptist figures in the UK and South Africa.

So they'd started the African Pastors Conferences around about 2006 or 2007. And Errol dragged me in in 2008. Very hard to say no to Errol. And so Raymond and I got involved in managing the conferences.

My job was, from the UK, planning eight conferences in South Africa and doing all the logistics and that and getting the speakers and the books and everything like that. So I would go over once a year for a month to oversee the eight conferences.

So, yeah, I was involved in that and I still have contacts with people involved in that.

Yes. Errol Hulse was a dear man and a powerful preacher. I had the privilege of hearing and seeing Errol preach face to face at the church where I was saved back in the 1980s, which was Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, New York.

It later merged with First Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island, and became Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York. But I remember clearly and with great fondness Errol's visits to Calvary Baptist Church and remember how deeply blessed and edified and moved I was by his messages.

Well, if anybody lives in the Allentown, Pennsylvania area, or if you're passing through that area, or if you have family, friends, and loved ones in that area, please make note of Pastor Gary Morrison's website, trinityallentown .org, and Allentown is A-L-L-E-N town, dot org, trinityallentown .org.

By the way, was that the town that Billy Joel wrote his song.

About? I believe so. That's the legend in any case, yeah. I don't know if he even ever visited it himself, so I don't think there's anything other than a musical connection somewhere.

It'd be bizarre for him to write a song about the town that he never visited. But anyway, we are talking about an area that has brought about controversy in the body of Christ. There's division in the body of Christ over what revival is, what revival looks like, how arrival has arrived on this planet in the past and what we should be looking for in the future, and how we should be praying for it and so on.

The Personal Burden That Led to a Study of Revival

First of all, why don't you tell us about your reasons for desiring to discuss biblical revival.

Today? Well, for the last couple of years, I guess it's been something on my mind more than before. I've got books on revival. I've read books on revival. I've got to recommend one, though, because this is the one that really catalyzed my thinking, Lectures on Revival by W. B. Sprague.

That really helped me tremendously, I think. I've got to get a hold of that. I've.

Never read that one. I loved Revival and Revivalism by Ian Murray, but I haven't read it.

Yes, I've read that one. That's excellent, absolutely excellent, as is virtually anything by Ian Murray. I went through a bit of a rough patch personally in January 2024. I stood down from the pulpit for about five months.

I went to counseling. I still actually go to counseling every month, but that brought me back to grips with my own weakness, my own need for personal reform and revival. During that time, when I stepped back into the pulpit, the church had also asked me to try and change the style of my preaching, which I was just very hard to digest that, actually, but I decided to do it.

I moved from 30 years of preaching, expository, exegetical messages, I moved to topical messages. I am a difficult person. I decided I'm going to preach topical messages until they get sick and ask me to go back to what I really like.

I gave them six months, but I determined that all my topical message would be Christ, and be Christ the shepherd of his sheep, or Christ the way, the truth, and the life. I started doing that. I found something that I didn't think would happen.

I started to really enjoy it. I learned so much about topical message. Previously in all my ministry, I'd never preached topical message unless it was Christmas, Easter, a wedding, a funeral, and a few other occasions.

I probably looked down on topical preaching, but I think the 30 years of exegetical preaching really helped me prepare a topical message that is true to exegesis as well. I thought, okay, I'll preach.

I got to the point where I thought, okay, I'll preach 50 messages. Then I got to the point where I thought I'll preach 100. Now, I don't know. I've exceeded 100 messages on that. I got more and more excited.

About six months ago, I thought, I'm running out of subjects here. Then recently, I started preaching Christ in the Old Testament. On Sunday, I preached Christ in Deuteronomy. But in all of that preaching, focusing on Christ and thinking of revival, beginning of last year, I got to the point where I thought, I've got to start teaching something on revival.

We don't have an evening service. I started one evening service a month. Instead of saying revival, we're going to be dealing with a subject of revival, I thought that would be too confusing. We called it Refresh and Renew, just really another term for revival.

I started preaching a message on revival and started with these seven things that are mentioned in this book that are necessary or marks of a genuine revival. I also did before the message every Sunday, every time would be a biography of somebody involved in revival, somebody historical.

We've covered people like Jonathan Edwards and others, just a 20 -25 minute, just to give a bit of context and then preach the message. This coming month, it'll be our 20th month in October on doing that.

But that didn't leave me satisfied. I sent emails to everybody in the area, even not connected to our church. I said, just come. I'm not trying to attract you to our church. I just want you to come. My motivation was for people to get excited by the subject of revival and take that back to their own church and to try and start something like it.

Now, if I backpedal a number of years, probably six, five or six years, at one of the Banner of Truth conferences, I had a young pastor come up to me and say, I see from your name tag, you're from Allentown.

Lo and behold, he's a probably a mile away from where our church is. We started meeting once a month or so for a cup of coffee and just chatting. It was his first church, Taylor Drummond. He'll be there at the pastor's luncheon.

Then after a while, he invited a few other pastors. We've got four or five that come regularly. We speak about different things. One of my biographies made me start thinking about a concert of prayer.

We spoke about it at our little fraternal for probably five or six months or more. I think it was longer than that. It was maybe eight or nine months. We eventually got together and agreed to host each of us, taking it in turns, a concert of prayer.

We would invite members of all the congregations to come together and pray. I think this really comes from Jonathan Edwards, where people come together and pray for revival. Just last night, we had our fourth concert of prayer.

We're praying for revival. Every aspect of the prayer meeting, is praying for revival. I don't know. The Lord's just made me more and more convicted about revival. I'm not an expert. I've never experienced revival.

I don't think I'm a good pastor or good at anything, but the Lord has put the burden on my heart. I've been very blessed with the other guys from the fraternal, an independent church, and then two Presbyterian churches and a Bible Fellowship church.

Then us, we're an independent Baptist church. We come from different walks of life, but we all.

Strictly have the doctrines of grace. We'll return to our conversation on revival momentarily, but I don't want to forget to do something that I always do with first-time guests, such as yourself. We always have first-time guests provide a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and the kinds of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

I would love to hear your story.

Gary Morrison's Conversion from Roman Catholicism

All right. Yes. As you mentioned, I was born in the city of Durban, which is on the east coast of southern Africa, one of the busiest ports in the whole of Africa. But when I was five, my father relocated us to about 100 miles north to a very small village of about 500 people in a farming community.

When we got there, my mother discovered that there was no catechism because my parents were both strict Catholics. She managed to bully the local bishop into starting a catechism class. I guess this is when I first started caring about God.

A bit later, we moved to a big town, or I thought it was a big town at the time, about 15 ,000 people. Going to the school there, I think I would have been 10 turning 11, I noticed that they had a Christian club at the school.

A lot of kids used to go during the lunchtime. There's a lunchtime club. Everybody took their own lunch. There was no feeding kids at school. You would bring your own food. We would go there and listen to the Bible.

It was wonderful, really good. An organization called Scripture Union was leading it. They were having an Easter camp. Our school year in the Southern Hemisphere starts in January. By Easter, I wanted to go to this camp, a Bible camp.

I brought the forms home. My parents said, no way, absolutely no way. These are Protestants. They don't believe what we believe. I went back and told the organizer that I wasn't allowed to go. They contacted a teacher in the high school who actually paid my parents a visit, knocked on the door and said, your son wants to go to this camp, but you don't want to.

What can we do to reassure you? He told my parents, said, yeah, but you Protestants? He said, yes, but we're only going to teach the Bible. They said, but your Bible is different to our Bible. He said, everything in our Bible is the same as what's in your Bible.

My parents agreed to let me.

Go. It was there that I first heard the gospel. At least the New Testament is the same. Different version, but same content, basically. The Catholics have a few extra books, obviously.

I went to this camp and I first heard the gospel. I wasn't 100 convinced, maybe I was even less than 50 convinced that I was a sinner because we would go to confession. But what I did was I bought a copy of the New Testament that they were selling for like 50 cents or something.

It was not a great translation at all, the Good News Bible. I took that home and I didn't let my parents see it. I would read it before going to sleep every night. Over the three years, I read it once a year for three years.

By that time, I was in high school mingling with other kids that I'd become closer friends to. I started seeing how their lives were changed. I started wanting what they had. I think that's when I came under conviction.

But it took me about three years. It took me reading through the New Testament three times. The one thing that I remembered, even now, was the just will live by faith. That came across in my mind. It was at that point that I became a believer.

Our high school also had a Christian club. I used to go to that every week. I was discipled and taught. I was still going to the Catholic Church. In the Catholic Church, I was an altar boy. I would go on to teach catechism classes.

My parents were actively involved in the leadership of the local Catholic Church. The Catholic priest, we had a good relationship with him. I had a good enough relationship with him to go to him and talk to him about some of the questions that I was starting to have.

In my time in high school, I would go to him quite a bit and ask him to show me in the Bible. I was reading another translation by that time, but where this was and that was. He couldn't answer some of those things.

But he never gave me a hard time over it. I think it was in one of my last years of high school that I was teaching catechism. Some of the parents complained to him that I wasn't teaching them properly.

He called me in. I think I was 15 or 16 at the time. He called me in and said, what are you teaching? I told him, I'm teaching that we're sinners and we have to confess our sins and we have to repent and believe and we have to read the Bible.

He said, but that's not part of it. I said to him, I know it's not, but that's what I believe God wants me to do. He did something quite extraordinary. He said, well, if God wants you to do, carry on doing it.

And he said, I will deal with the parents and he did. For as long as I remained in the Catholic church, that's what I did. I think he saw a genuine and sincere seeking, but it wasn't until my final year of high school when he was away, he was a German, he went back to Germany for some sort of a vacation.

The Lord brought me under conviction to leave the Catholic church, which was a really big thing in our family. My parents were incredibly angry. It was an anger that lasted about six months. I was grounded from all activities.

One of the reasons why they were so angry was I had chosen to make the local Baptist church my new home. When he came back from vacation, they brought him to the house to talk to me. Another thing that would be quite astounding, I guess, was he said to them, where's your son going?

I told him, and he said, you should thank God that when your son left the Catholic church, he's going to the Baptist church. Why? Because in our local town, so many kids of my age were leaving the Catholic church and not going anywhere.

One of the things that people of my age used to do was go fishing and get trout. He said, your son's not doing this. Your son's not doing this. He's going to church. So that changed them. They even came to my baptism later as well.

So I thank God. You mean your parents did?

You came to your baptism?

Yes, they came to our baptism. My mother died quite young. She never left the Catholic church, but when I went through some of her things, I found a copy of the Bible, I think it was an NIV, that she was reading.

It was thoroughly read, thoroughly from cover to cover with notes and a lot of Bible reading booklets, daily bread and things like that. And she was sympathetic in later years when I went to seminary to help me and financially, when my father was hostile.

So I believe my mother did become a believer. My father later did become a believer after probably about 10 years after my mother died, he met another woman who was a Christian. And I think that sort of got him going in that track.

Yeah. Now, is Catholicism that large of a presence in South Africa? I always envisioned the Dutch Reformed Church being the dominant church there as far as Christianity and, of course, Anglicanism.

In South Africa, definitely. The Dutch Reformed Church was probably amongst sort of like the white population and maybe what South Africans call the colored population, which is not the black population.

Coloreds are people that are in South Africa, even after apartheid, they still identify as coloreds. So it's not a racist term, but that's people of mixed heritage. They're quite proud of being... They don't say they're black and they don't say they're white.

They're quite proud of being something different. And so the Dutch Reformed Church was the main proponent of apartheid. And their churches were always full, as when I was growing up in apartheid, their churches were full because if you went to their church and you became a member of their church and followed their system, there was political advantage, companies, government organizations, things like that.

So Baptists and others struggled. Baptists was quite small. The Catholic Church was probably stronger in the black rural areas. Yes, because they would plant mission stations and bring education, not just them, the Methodists.

Nelson Mandela was educated in a Methodist mission type school out in rural part of the Eastern Cape where he came from. So this was a good opportunity. And the Roman Catholic Church was no participant in any way, probably only religious group that was not a participant in any way in supporting apartheid.

Baptists were not a participant, but many of them were. Where in the Roman Catholic Church, there was no racial discrimination. Their schools were multiracial, which white schools were not.

Yes, it's a very different experience for, I think, the majority of American Catholics. I was Catholic myself and went to Catholic parochial school, St. Martin of Tours in Amityville, Long Island, and I was an altar boy.

And there was only two or three black students in the entire school. And in America, I think that it is a small minority of black that are Catholic. But how did you come to discover and embrace Reformed theology?

From Evangelicalism to Reformed Baptist Theology

Well, I mean, I went through coming from a Catholic background and then getting discipled really at a school Bible club and only joining a Baptist church my final year. I went to a Bible school after graduating from high school for one year, and that was not Reformed, but they were thoroughly evangelical.

And it was a thoroughly multiracial Bible school. In fact, there were only like three whites. I left school at 17. So I was one of three whites, three or four whites in the Bible school. And that's where I got grounded in terms of what was not Roman Catholic theology and what was evangelical theology.

And then I had to do military service. If you were a white South African back in the day, you were drafted, or we called it conscripted, and you did two years of military service, continuous military service.

Our country was fighting a war, an unofficial war, about a 25-year war. And then after your two years, they would call you back every year for an average of two months a year. But it would effectively be one month, one year, and three months the next year.

And you did that for another 12 years. So over a 12-year period, you do another two years of military service. So I did my military service and I went back to work. And then I applied to our seminary, our Baptist seminary.

It's not called seminary, but it is a seminary, the Baptist Theological College of Southern Africa. And it was a professional organization, not officially an educational organization, because they refused to cooperate with apartheid policies.

And so they were non-accredited. So I did four years there. And in that, I probably became a four-point or a four-and-a-half-point Calvinist, shall we say. I wasn't quite sure about some things.

And then when I graduated... Yeah, carry on.

I was just going to ask, how did you even discover those four points, other than just reading the Bible?

Well, yes, because in our seminary, we had a good mix of people that are both Calvinist and Arminianist. And the policy there was, as long as you can substantiate your theology from some scripture. So we had some professors who were Calvinist and some who were not, but there was no animosity or whatever.

And so it was really... We used to have debates, they would allow some debates, and the debates were always very lively. And I think what did not get me over the edge was the anger in some of the... When they're debating, after the debate, everybody was fine.

But during the debate, both sides would get really angry, and I didn't like it. So I didn't sort of stake my claim. If anybody pushed me, I'd just say I was an Arminianist, just to... My best friend was at the seminary as well, and he was a Calvinist.

And just to give him... And then we would have arguments and discussions. But when I graduated, I did not get a call from any church. Our system was you wait for a call. And it turns out I waited five years.

And so I went back to work. And there was a time when I worked in sales. And in sales, the training, the sales presentation became so remarkably like something I had done many years before, evangelism explosion.

And they have this thing that you memorize. And then I realized that the evangelism explosion, which was really good, I mean, it gave me confidence to share the gospel. But you're basically pushing people using sales tactics.

And I didn't know that at the time, it was only when I was doing sales. And then I realized

Is that the methodology that was developed by D. James Kennedy?

Yes, yes. And I didn't realize at the time that it was really classic sales tactics. And honestly, my change was realizing that the gospel cannot be sold, it must be given away. And then I got an invite to go to this Reformed Baptist church to listen to this guy preaching on predestination.

And I thought, I still remember at the time saying to my wife, I'm going to go and see what this character's got to say. And Roland Estenazi was the pastor, and he graduated from the other seminary in Cape Town.

And I went to Johannesburg. And he graduated the year before me, and I had met him before. And I thought, you know, who's this guy? He was an ex-professional ballet dancer.

A Reformed Baptist ballet dancer? I never heard of such a thing.

And so I went to listen to him. And it was such a, I think he preached for about an hour, which was a long sermon for me to digest at that stage. I don't think maybe once or twice I'd heard a sermon that long.

And he covered it so lovingly and so soundly that everyone he said, so his attitude and his demeanor was not putting me off. It was attractive. Everything he said, I knew I could not disagree with. I knew it was biblical.

And so it was at that point where I crossed the threshold and became, and I think it was probably, and I stayed in his church for about a year before I eventually did get a call to a church. But then I was solidly 1689, you know, all the way.

So a thorough technical, technically correct, but a lovingly and biblical preached message did more for me. And maybe I wasn't ready when I was in seminary to hear it. You know, maybe I had to listen to Roland.

He's a church now in Belgium. And if anybody's ever in Belgium and you're in Brussels, find Roland Eskenazi and go and attend his church.

Great. Well, loved hearing that story. And when we come back, I'd like you to begin exploring those seven marks of biblical revival that you had mentioned earlier. And do that. And if anybody has a question of your own and you'd like to join the conversation, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord and his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

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