July 30, 2019 Show with Kurt M. Smith on “Piety, Passion, & Paradox: The Life & Legacy of Basil Manly, Sr.”

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July 30, 2019: KURT M. SMITH, author & pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, AL who will discuss: “PIETY, PASSION & PARADOX: The LIFE & LEGACY of BASIL MANLY, SR.”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown
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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.
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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of July 2019.
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I'm thrilled to have back on the program a person who I love to interview, a fascinating person who is not only rich in his knowledge of theology and doctrine and biblical wisdom, but he is also very knowledgeable in church history, and that is another one of the reasons we have him on today specifically.
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We are discussing his new book on a great historical figure, especially beloved by those in Calvinistic Baptist circles, and that is
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Basil Manley Sr. His book is Piety, Passion, Paradox, the
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Life and Legacy of Basil Manley Sr., and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Curt M.
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Smith. Thank you, Chris. It is great to be back on. It's been a little over a year since I had the pleasure of being on your show, and so I'm very grateful to be back on here with you.
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I didn't even realize it was that long. Wow. And I know that you're pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama.
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Why don't you tell our listeners something more about that church? Yeah. Providence Reformed Baptist Church is still a young church in its history.
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We've only been officially constituted together for three years, but in the last four months of this year, we have seen just a sudden exponential numerical growth that has been very surprising, where we have nearly tripled in size, and what's been so encouraging about this growth, additional growth, is that it has come by one common denominator, and that is that people are being drawn to Providence for the preaching of God's word.
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That's why they're coming. They've discovered my sermons on Sermon Audio, and so they have just been coming.
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Several families, and so we are just very grateful for what clearly and obviously is what the
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Lord is doing. God gets all the credit for this. So you mean it has nothing to do with your
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Christmas cantata or your praise band or your youth programs?
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Exactly! I mean, look, not even the fog machine worked. It wasn't even that. I mean, you know, what is wonderful is that as a
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Reformed Baptist church, the only thing we do have to offer is God's word. I mean, that's it.
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That's all we have to offer. So there's nothing pragmatic whatsoever in anything that we do, and so it's just the simple unadulterated proclamation of God's word, and hence all these families and singles that have been coming in since March, but it really picked up in May with many more.
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They've all been drawn to Providence by the preaching, and so it's very unusual, and of course
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I love being able to share with other pastors that it's not because of a dog and pony show.
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I think it really is just God's word. Praise God. Well, if anybody wants more information about Providence Reformed Baptist Church, which as I said before is located in Pine Mountain, Alabama, their website is
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PRBC1689 .org PRBC1689 .org
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Even though this is not the theme of our show today, since you bothered to put it in your website 1689, why don't you educate our listeners who may be totally unfamiliar with the 1689
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London Baptist Confession, also known as the Second London Baptist Confession. There are those especially perhaps our non -confessional fundamentalist friends who on occasion slander us by saying that we don't think that the
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Bible is sufficient, so we have these manwritten confessions, and ironically the confession itself and all of the historic
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Reformed confessions say in the confessions themselves that they're not on the same par as the
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Scripture, not near it. But if you could, let us let our listeners know who are unfamiliar with that confession, and perhaps even confessionalism itself.
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Let them know about the 1689. Well, the 1689 Baptist Confession originally was penned in 1677 and was actually agreed upon and affirmed by the
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London Baptist Association in that year, and but it did not go public until 1689 due to the laws that were passed by Parliament and where they, you know, the
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Baptists as well as the other independent, non -conformist churches like Presbyterians and Congregationalists could declare openly and confessionally what they believed and basically not be arrested for it or criminalized or whatever.
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So, the second London Baptist Confession, as it's called, 1689, would become, obviously unbeknownst to those churches and the
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London Baptist Association, it would become in Baptist history the most well -known and the most well -used confession of faith among Baptists.
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And this is especially true when you look at Baptist history right here in America.
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The first Baptist Association that was formed in America, 1707, the
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Philadelphia Baptist Association, they adopted 1689 as their confession, although they did add two chapters, one on psalm singing and the other on the laying on of hands.
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And then the first Baptist Association in the southern United States, the
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Charleston Association, which our subject today,
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Basil Manley Sr., he was a part of that association. But that association in 1767, they adopted the 1689
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Baptist Confession as well and they did so keeping one of the additional chapters the
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Philadelphia Association had added, and that was on the singing of psalms and the spiritual songs.
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So, the second London Baptist Confession remained the staple confession of faith, adhered to by the vast majority of Baptists, both
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North and South, throughout the late 17th and then all throughout the 18th century and then even leading over into the 19th century.
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When you get into the 19th century, and particularly with Baptist churches down here in the South, you begin to see a lot of Baptist churches writing what would be called abridgments, more of a condensed version of the second
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London Baptist Confession. But they still held to all of the essential doctrines and principles of that larger confession.
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And then even when you speed up into 1845, May the 8th, Augusta, Georgia, 293 delegates that would meet there to organize the
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Southern Baptist Convention, all those delegates would come from churches and associations that held to the 1689
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Baptist Confession or an abridgment thereof. So, this confession it has a very rich history indeed the richest history as far as confessions of faith are concerned in the
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Baptist tradition. And it is, of course, it is a Protestant, Orthodox, Evangelical, Covenantal, Calvinistic, Puritan, Baptist confession of faith.
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And so it would be it would kind of go out of sight for several years in the latter half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century.
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But then somewhere in 1959, 1960 it would reappear.
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And then eventually it would really be the driving force and the movement that we would know today as the
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Reformed Baptist Movement. And so Reformed Baptist churches, say different than Calvinistic Baptist churches,
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Reformed Baptist churches are so -called Reformed because they would hold distinctively to the 1689
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Baptist Confession. Yes, and I know that Charles Haddon Spurgeon actually had the 1689
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Confession and Benjamin Keech's Catechism encased in the cornerstone of the
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Metropolitan Tarbonite. Yes, he did. He certainly did. And when
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Spurgeon, when he went to New Park Street, he would have the
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Second London Confession republished for that church, which of course that church originally adhered to and subscribed to the 1689
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Baptist Confession when it was under its first pastor Benjamin Keech. And of course Benjamin Keech was a part of the
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Baptist Association that had publicly affirmed and endorsed the 1689
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Confession originally. But it, you know, there at that particular local church, through the years it had fallen by the wayside and so when
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C .H. Spurgeon came back, well when he came back, when he entered the pastorate there at New Park Street that he would eventually change the name to Metropolitan Tabernacle, he would republish that Confession of Faith as being the
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Confession of Faith of the Metropolitan Tabernacle. Great, well let me give our listeners our email address right now in case they want to ask you a question.
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Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail dot com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter. Well, you know normally on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, as you may remember, when we have a first -time guest, we have them give a summary of their own salvation testimony, the religious atmosphere they were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances were raised up in that person's life that drew him to God and saved him.
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Well, since you've already done that for yourself, Basil or Basil Manley Sr.
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is a new introduction to our listeners, even though there are some, probably a great minority, who have heard about him before, who know him, and those would likely be largely confined to Calvinistic Baptist listeners and perhaps even pastors or voracious readers.
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So, if you could, tell our listeners about the religious atmosphere of the home of Basil Manley Sr.
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when he was being raised up as a child and how he came to know Christ. Well, Basil Manley Sr.,
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he grew up in a home that had a very, very strong father figure.
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His father was known as Captain Manley. And what more manly name can you have?
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Isn't that the truth? Yes, he was definitely a force of nature, his dad was.
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His mother, she would actually come to faith in Christ during the
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Second Great Awakening. And, of course, let me back up here real quick. Basil Manley Sr.
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grew up in Pittsboro, North Carolina. And the first 21 years of his life he would spend there in Pittsboro, North Carolina.
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But his father, his family, they were very well established there in Pittsboro.
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And his father, as far as we know, his father never came to faith in Christ.
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He was a Roman Catholic. He was not a devout Roman Catholic. I mean, he was just a
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Roman Catholic, purely in name only. Truthfully, Basil Manley's dad was really more of a secular man.
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And all that he really cared about for all his sons is that they would just climb the social ladder there in the
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Old South and just basically establish themselves as lawyers, magistrates, doctors, professors, whatever.
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But something that would put them in the upper echelon of the upper class in that culture.
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And that's really all that Captain Manley cared for and cared about. When his wife came to faith in Christ, Basil Manley's mom, that was really nothing that shook
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Captain Manley up. But what eventually would shake him up was when
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Basil Manley Sr., following his conversion to Christ, and I'll tell about it in a moment because that is the circumstances surrounding
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Basil Manley's conversion are truly fascinating and quite ironic. But when
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Basil Manley Sr. came to faith in Christ, two years following that, he would express a very strong desire and call to enter into the ministry.
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And that would be something that his father would very strongly be opposed to.
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And he voiced his opposition very candidly with his son about that.
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But nevertheless, Basil Manley Sr. would of course go on and get a formal education for the ministry and then eventually go on from there and enter the pastorate.
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But backing up to his conversion, he was converted to Christ when he was 16 years old.
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And the circumstances surrounding his conversion, as I said, they're both remarkable and very ironic.
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He was being schooled at a particular academy at this time there in North Carolina.
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And on one fateful day, as he was just randomly wandering in a cornfield, and he was wrestling greatly at this time and period in his life with spiritual issues and questions about his soul and stand before God.
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He heard a voice in the cornfield somewhere in that field that sounded like an elderly man crying out to God.
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But what struck Basil Manley is that this voice was pleading to God for Basil Manley Sr.
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And what Basil Manley heard was this voice pleading with God to save Moz Bass.
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So Basil Manley, immediately struck by this, started making his way through that cornfield to trace out where this voice was coming from.
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And there he found an African slave on his knees, weeping before the
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Lord, crying out for God to save Moz Bass, Basil Manley. Yes, and Basil Manley in that moment was absolutely struck to the core of his soul, dropped to his knees, weeping profusely next to that elderly
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African slave. And that slave wrapping his arms around Basil Manley helped that boy to pray.
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And in that moment, in that cornfield, Basil Manley came to faith in Christ.
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And there were several other slaves who eventually would make their way to that spot. And then the family, the southern family that Basil Manley was being housed with as he was attending that academy, they also made their way there.
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And all of them were rejoicing over the conversion of Basil Manley Sr. Wow, that is a remarkable story.
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I don't know if I have ever heard a story of God using a slave to bring someone in his master's family to salvation.
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That's really incredible. Yeah, it really is. And of course, you know, the biting irony of that is that Basil Manley, of course, and we can get into this conversation as I'm sure we'll need to later, but Basil Manley would inherit many slaves from his dad and eventually he would eventually be a man who would own 43 slaves.
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He would defend the South's peculiar institution, though he strived very hard to defend it as a
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Christian as best as he could. But it is really a biting irony in the works of God's providence that the
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Lord would use an African slave, humanly speaking, to draw
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Basil Manley to faith in Christ. And the more remarkable part, even if Basil Manley had remained a reprobate, had remained a lost sinner, the heartache and the passioned plea, the impassioned plea that that slave had in his prayer for the salvation of who would be
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Basil Manley Sr., that in and of itself, even if God did not answer the prayer the way the slave intended, the fact that the slave was praying that way is
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I think even the most remarkable part of the whole story. I mean,
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God, the most glorious aspect is the salvation of Basil Manley Sr.,
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but the most remarkable part of the story, I think, is that the slave was praying for him in that way. Oh, yeah. Yes, I know.
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I know. I mean, you're right. I mean, that truly is one of the most remarkable parts of the whole story.
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I tell that whole story in my book, and I remember the morning that I wrote that part of the book,
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I just had to stop at the end of writing that part because I was overcome with emotion.
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I was weeping before the Lord because I thought, wow, Lord, what mercy and what mercy in such a remarkable way that you showed to this young man, 16 years of age, and it just, you know, it is an incredible story as far as all those circumstances surrounding how
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Basil Manley Sr. would eventually be brought to faith in Christ.
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Now, what made you come to the point of all the historical figures you can think of to write a book about, especially since there are quite a number of Calvinistic Baptists of history who still have not had a published biography written about them, what was the key thing or things that said,
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I've got to write a book, a biography about Basil Manley Sr.? Well, that would start back three years ago when
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I moved here to Alabama in the summer of 2016. My co -author to the first book that I would have published who you know.
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Brandon Smith. Well, Brandon and I, three years ago, when
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I moved here to Alabama, and Brandon is actually a native of Alabama, but we were talking, we were discussing the possibility of writing a book together on the theological history of Alabama Baptists as we did
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Georgia Baptists, focusing on the doctrines of grace no differently than we did the book on Georgia Baptists, and really focusing primarily on the first generation, or really the first couple of generations of Baptists here in Alabama.
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And for my part in the book, no different than my part in the book on Georgia Baptists, it would be biographical, and I was already thinking of,
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I was doing a lot of research at that time and looking to see who were the three principal figures in Baptist history in the first and second generation of Baptists in Alabama.
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And of those three, Basil Manley Sr. was one of them.
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It was already very much on my mind to start doing more research about him in order to eventually write what perhaps would be that chapter in that future book that Brandon and I would put together on Alabama Baptists.
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But last summer, I was given the opportunity by a local pastor in Birmingham, Alabama who was, their church was putting on a conference entitled
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A People Called Baptists. No, I was in Birmingham for my very first time ever just a few weeks ago.
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I was on my way to Franklin, Tennessee to a Bible conference out there and I spent one night one day and night in your beautiful city or the beautiful city,
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I should say, of Birmingham, Alabama and this area, Birmingham, just filled me with envy because it was a very wealthy area and I've rarely seen a more gorgeous place in my life.
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But I had lunch with a local Reformed Anglican pastor,
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Roger Salter, and his wife Maureen. And I know that they share a building with a
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Reformed Baptist church. Who is the pastor that you're referring to? Oh, the pastor
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I'm referring to is a brother named Mark Little. And he pastors
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Dominion Baptist. And so it was their church that was hosting this conference and Mark had reached out to me and asked if I would speak on, you know, two figures in Baptist history.
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One of those figures I chose, which I'd already spoken on many of the times before, was Jesse Mercer, Georgia Baptist.
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But the other figure who I'd never ever spoken on or about was Basil Manley Sr.
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So that invitation from Pastor Mark Little at Dominion Baptist just opened up the door for me to plunge into all of this research that would forge what would be an oral presentation on the life and legacy of Basil Manley Sr.
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that eventually would end up being a published biographical, which is what we have now from Free Grace Press.
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So that's how that all came about. And I will say that Basil Manley Sr.,
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it's sad to me in many ways, and I stress this in the introduction to my book, that he is a forgotten
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Baptist, when in his own generation there was probably no greater leader among Baptists in the
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South. I mean, he really was, as I say, the leading voice of his entire generation among Baptists in the
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South. So you would think that with a figure in Baptist history, at least among Southern Baptists, that was so well -known, it's often hard to believe that he would be so unknown today by so many
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Baptists, and particularly Baptists in the South. And you would think that Southern Baptists especially would have known or maybe heard at one time of Basil Manley Sr.,
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because Basil Manley Sr. is basically the human reason that there even exists the
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Southern Baptist Convention. Because he was the spearhead of getting the convention started in 1845.
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But today he's forgotten. Just like the subject of my favorite biography,
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A Pastor in New York, The Life and Time of Spencer Cone by John Thornberry, he was a particular Baptist in Manhattan, and I have never met anybody who has not read the book by Thornberry who knew who he was when
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I mentioned him. And it's a tragedy. Yeah, I agree with you, it is.
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I have that book by Thornberry on Spencer Cone, and yeah,
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Spencer Cone, he is one of those Baptists in American Baptist history. It's sad how many
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Baptists have never heard even of him as well. Well, we are going to our first station break right now, and if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com.
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Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages with more of Kurt M.
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Smith and The Life and Legacy of Basil Manley Sr. I'm Dr.
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Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and my friend Chris Arnzen and I are excited to be attending another
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January 16th through the 18th in Atlanta by registering at g3conference .com,
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that's g3conference .com See you there! ...
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the corner and in fact that starts tomorrow August 1st through the 3rd that's
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I'm sorry not tomorrow it starts this Thursday through Saturday the fellowship conference
01:05:23
New England is being held at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland Maine that's
01:05:29
Thursday through Saturday August 1st through the 3rd and my friend Mac Tomlinson is the one who spearheads this this conference every year it is a
01:05:40
Calvinistic conference featuring men this coming fellowship conference
01:05:49
New England features men all of whom I have interviewed already on the show and I'm looking forward to having many more interviews with them they're truly fascinating and gifted brethren the first is pastor
01:06:00
Anthony Mathenia he is the pastor of Christ Church in Radford Virginia and he is also the pastor of Paul Washer he's gonna be speaking the aforementioned pastor
01:06:15
Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton Texas a pastor Lee Dodd who is also a pastor at Providence Chapel in Denton Texas and he's my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio pastor
01:06:28
Nate Pickowitz who is an author and a pastor of the Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks New Hampshire can't wait to have him back on the show he is also at this conference if you would like to register for this conference once again it is
01:06:44
Thursday August 1st through Saturday August 3rd at the
01:06:49
Deering Center Christian the Deering Center Community Church in Portland Maine go to fellowship conference
01:07:01
New England comm fellowship conference New England comm and you can register there then coming up actually coinciding with this conference but on a different side of the
01:07:15
United States an opposite end of the United States we have the event that my friend dr.
01:07:23
Tony Costa is participating in that is a conference at the church at friendship that is in Hockley Texas and that is being hosted by the
01:07:37
Providence Theological Institute and dr. Costa will be speaking there the 2nd through the 4th so some of those days out overlap but they're on opposite ends of the country so if you live closer to Hockley Texas and you'd rather go to this conference
01:07:54
I hope that you make sure you attend and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Trap and Zion Radio the church at friendship is hosting this as I said in Hockley Texas and the speaking engagements are going to be on such themes as the meaningless the meaninglessness of life without God the authority and inerrancy of Scripture the promised land and the
01:08:20
New Covenant and the glorious New Covenant and more so if you want to attend this conference go to fellowship
01:08:27
I'm sorry go to church at fellowship I'm really screwing up today go to church at friendship org church at friendship org is the website for that conference
01:08:41
August 2nd through the 4th that's this Friday through Sunday in Hockley Texas and then my friend pastor
01:08:52
Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church is going to be debating a Roman Catholic apologist named
01:08:58
Matthew Luke Broderick on the theme is the office of Pope biblical this is a
01:09:05
Catholic versus Protestant debate on Saturday September 7th at 630 p .m.
01:09:11
at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville Long Island New York if you want more details call 631 area code 806 06 14 631 806 06 14 or go to the
01:09:24
Word of Truth Church website which is WOT church .com
01:09:30
WOT which stands for word of truth church .com WOT church .com
01:09:36
then coming up in December I'm gonna be packing up my bags heading back to my old stomping grounds in Manhattan I'm going to the
01:09:44
Foundations Conference God willing hosted by sermonaudio .com that's Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th in New York City and what better time of year to go to Manhattan than Christmas season and of course that time of year would include
01:10:00
December 19th and 20th Thursday and Friday I hope to see you there I am looking forward with bated breath to be there again
01:10:07
I love this conference and the speakers include Dr. Steven J Lawson one of the most gifted and powerful preachers we have on the planet
01:10:14
Earth today and another person in that category is Paul Washer and another person in that category is
01:10:20
Jeff Thomas and another person in that category is the Reverend Armin Tomasian who many of you may not have heard of before but he is a young man with extraordinary gifts preaching and teaching gifts far beyond his youth and he is a young pastor but I think that within the next decade he is going to be a household name amongst
01:10:44
Reformed Christians because he is that powerful and that gifted a preacher
01:10:49
Richard Caldwell jr. and Andrew Quigley are two men that I have not yet heard preach but I'm sure if sermonaudio .com
01:10:56
selected them they must be magnificent so if you want to join me Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th in New York City at the
01:11:04
Foundations Conference go to thefoundationsconference .com thefoundationsconference .com
01:11:10
this conference is only open to men in ministry leadership then
01:11:15
I am going to be packing up my bags again and this time heading down south once again to the
01:11:21
G3 conference I love this conference so much G3 stands for gospel grace and glory it's being held at the
01:11:28
Georgia International Convention Center which is in College Park Georgia a suburb of Atlanta right near the airport very convenient for people flying in from different parts of the world and many do in fact they typically have over 5 ,000 people there every year
01:11:46
I am looking forward to also manning my exhibitors booth for Iron Shepard's Iron Radio there again and the theme is going to be worship matters and the speakers include
01:11:58
Kosti Hinn who is the nephew of renowned heretic or should
01:12:05
I say notorious heretic and false teacher Benny Hinn and Kosti would not be upset by hearing me say that because he spends a great deal of his ministry outside of his own pulpit traveling and warning people about the deceptive dangerous deadly and damning doctrines of the word of faith movement and that includes his own uncle he had repented of the word of faith heresy he was raised in and he is now a reformed
01:12:32
Baptist and cessationist pastor in California you gotta really travel to wherever you hear
01:12:38
Kosti is preaching if you can all make it and he will be on the roster here at the G3 conference along with Daryl Bernard Harrison a new addition to John MacArthur's team at Grace TU, David Miller a really phenomenal old school preacher
01:12:53
I just love hearing him preach Derek Thomas a man who is definitely very familiar to most reformed
01:13:00
Christians because of his writing preaching and teaching a mutual friend of my guest and mine
01:13:05
James R. White Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is going to be there I've known
01:13:10
James since 1995 and and I have been calling him a dear friend for many years
01:13:16
I just look forward to always seeing and hearing him speak Dr.
01:13:21
Joel Beakey who we mentioned before he is the president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids Michigan once again we have
01:13:29
Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer on the roster together at this conference in addition to the one that we mentioned before Phil Johnson the executive director of Grace TU the ministry of John MacArthur Stephen J.
01:13:42
Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio Tom Askell who is the executive director of Founders Ministries the
01:13:55
Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention Vody Baucom one of the most phenomenal preachers on the planet
01:14:02
Earth today and more and the new addition of John MacArthur on the roster has me more excited than ever
01:14:10
I have never been in the same room when John MacArthur is preaching so I am just so excited about this he is one of my modern -day heroes and I am so grateful to God that he has given me the opportunity to be in the same building with him when he's preaching and I hope to get to meet him
01:14:29
I've interviewed Dr. MacArthur on Iron Trip and Zion Radio a number of years ago but I've never met him face to face face to face
01:14:36
I'm so looking forward to it if you want to join me there at the G3 conference in College Park Georgia go to G3conference .com
01:14:44
G3conference .com to register that's Thursday January 16th through Saturday January 18th are the days of the conference and I strongly urge you if you have a parachurch ministry a business a professional practice a special event that you want to advertise anything that you want to promote heavily amongst
01:15:07
Christians especially Calvinistic Christians I strongly urge you to register for an exhibitors booth just like I will be manning at the
01:15:16
G3 conference as I said before there's over 5 ,000 people that attend this annually but the addition of John MacArthur to the lineup
01:15:23
I think they're gonna have over 6 ,000 people so if you want to register go to G3conference .com G3conference .com
01:15:29
and if it applies to you I would strongly urge you to not only register to attend but register for an exhibitors booth as well before they run out of room
01:15:36
G3 conference .com and last but not least if you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves you look forward to sharing the free denotable mp3s to your family friends and loved ones you love hearing the guests and topics that sometimes
01:15:55
I've never heard anywhere else well please if you have the extra money please help us financially by going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com
01:16:07
click support then click click to donate now that's IronSharpensIronRadio .com click support then click click to donate now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that you can also send it and check the old -fashioned way via snail mail to the address that appears on your screen never siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio never do that never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio those two things are commands of God providing for my show is obviously not but if you know the
01:16:45
Lord has blessed you above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands you have extra money for benevolent reasons charitable purposes you have extra money for recreational purposes for coffee for ice cream for things like that you have extra money that's sitting around collecting interest and you want to use it for something that you know is blessing the people of God and even being used on occasion to enlighten the lost but to always bring praise honor and glory to the name of Jesus Christ and you want to use your money towards something like that and you agree that fits the description of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio please if you don't want us to disappear donate to us as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can by going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com
01:17:35
click support then click click to donate now I so appreciate and thank all of you in my audience who are doing that regularly some of you are doing it two or three times a month
01:17:45
I just thank you so much I can't think of the words to adequately extend my gratitude to you but for those of you who listen and you know you have the extra money and yet you've never given please consider it prayerfully
01:17:57
I would really appreciate it if you do and you would appreciate it too if we stick around if you do indeed love the show and if you don't have a church home you're not prayerfully looking for one you're living in rebellion against God so if you need help finding one
01:18:15
I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world I've helped people find churches in many parts of the world and also helped find churches for where people are going on vacation where their family friends and loved ones live so send me an email to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com
01:18:31
and put I need a church or something like that in the subject line and if you want to advertise with us we surely could use your advertising dollars as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe so send in an email to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com
01:18:46
ChrisOrenson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line that is also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest today
01:18:56
Kurt and Smith on the life of Basil Manley Sr. and our email address is
01:19:02
ChrisOrenson at gmail .com ChrisOrenson at gmail .com okay we have a question for you
01:19:10
Pastor Kurt from a very faithful listener to Iron Trip and Zion Radio who is also a very generous contributor to our show his name is
01:19:18
Grady from Asheboro North Carolina hi brothers Chris and Kurt great show growing up as a
01:19:25
Southern Baptist I always heard about John Broadus George W Truett Bertha Smith or Lottie Moon when
01:19:34
Chris shared about Spencer Cohn that was the first I had heard about him and his is a life worth telling how is it as Baptists we have kept these forefathers of our faith from being recognized their life stories should have been part of our
01:19:51
Baptist heritage that should have been told as examples of faith very interesting question and a very very good one because it is kind of puzzling why some of these men are hidden secrets yeah it is and and really it's it it's something that that I think works you know to our detriment spiritually because how much more would we be edified as Christians individually as churches collectively if we knew more about the lives and the you know and the legacies that that these brethren from our past that God has used so remarkably have left for us you know as far as answering this brother's question directly you know why why have we not heard of men like a
01:21:00
Spencer Cohn or even like a Basil Manley senior largely it is due to the fact that church history and then of course in the context that we're talking about today
01:21:15
Baptist history is just largely unknown it's not taught it's not passed on to the next generation and you know and then furthermore there is also just the the attitude sadly among among Christians because they're not taught church history they they therefore don't really have a category in their own thinking for why this would even be important you know what why would
01:21:52
Christian biography which is of course is actually a part of church history why would that be important for me why should
01:21:58
I read Christian biography and if we're not careful if we're not careful and of course
01:22:05
I've seen this personally in my own experience if we're not careful we can garner the attitude and thinking of what is called presentism where we basically look down our noses at people and things of the past as if there's nothing that we can learn from them there's nothing we can benefit from them because what matters most in fact the only thing that does matter is the here and the now you know it's what
01:22:40
C .S. Lewis called chronological snobbery and you know and I do think inadvertently unwittingly that's where that's where many
01:22:52
Christians have have unfortunately wound up in their thinking about church history and Christian biography only because they have never been encouraged to read the study they've ever been taught you know the history of the church and the people that God has used to make that history and so it's you know it's very it's unfortunate but that's one of the reasons why for me personally
01:23:22
I I enjoy so much writing Christian biography one because I know how much
01:23:30
I have benefited from it personally in my own life as a Christian but also to I want other believers to know and appreciate what
01:23:42
God has done in the past and how he has used his saints from the past in ways that very much speak to where we are in our own day well thank you
01:24:00
Grady make sure we have your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of piety passion and paradox the life and legacy of Basil Manley senior by our guest
01:24:12
Kurt M Smith and this is a publication of free grace press and I just thank
01:24:18
God for free grace press and solid ground
01:24:25
Christian books and these smaller publishing houses that are bringing back into print and publishing even new things that would otherwise likely either be left in the dust heap of history to never be revived again or they would never come to fruition to begin with like your biography although about a historic figure your biography is a new work and it saddens me that this is something that many perhaps even the majority of pastors today they want to be hip they want to they want to be with it they want to be cool and just like you were talking about presentism conjuring up the names of great men in the past to them is even perhaps very often considered a bad thing oh we look down on them because in our enlightened day we see more clearly their warts their flaws their blemishes their sins and how dare we even pay attention to somebody that ever owned a slave or this or that when these people were raised and came to be in a time when those things existed it's not like you're you're giving tribute to people who started the slave trade for starting the slave trade right you know and hopefully many of these people who are liberal and are very soft on the sins of abortion in fact some of them gleefully celebrate the the wickedness of infanticide
01:26:16
I would hope that one day children would be taught that we have to dismiss and reject these people from the past who allowed children in the millions to be murdered in their mother's wombs and I'm speaking about the so -called political heroes of today and the the the pundits and well -known people in the media who receive the accolades of many leftists but anyway
01:26:45
I think I'm going on a tangent here but it is but I going back to what
01:26:52
I was saying and I'm sure you do since you're an author don't you thank
01:26:57
God for these publishing groups like solid ground Christian books like free grace press like reformation heritage books who are being used of God to give us gifts these wonderful gifts that are really like buried treasure that are brought to the surface that have been discovered that have been dusted off and given to us as a present that we are able to be blessed by and of course even the the new writing of people like you who are bringing us biographies of such great heroes of the past oh yes
01:27:35
I'm very grateful for these these publishers you know and I think of I think of course of you know the first publishing house that really started such a work like this manner of truth trust back in the 1950s and and you know thank
01:27:53
God for raising up other publishers especially here in the states since banner truth started in there in Scotland in Great Britain but but very thankful you know for how
01:28:06
God has been pleased to clearly and obviously use publishers like Reformation Heritage and solid ground and free grace press and others to you know to introduce to a whole new generation of Christians men and women of the past that they otherwise probably never would have heard of and even and even introduced them as you mentioned to works from the past you know books that that were written over a hundred years ago over 200 years ago or 300 years ago that that you know they probably never would have seen in their lifetime were it not for the
01:28:49
Lord raising up publishers like this so obviously I am very grateful for these for these publishers well before we go on to any more listener questions
01:29:01
I want you to address why passion is a key word in your mind when it is connected to Basil Manley senior so much so that you included it as a keyword in your in your title for his biography well the three key words in the title piety passion and paradox they all relate to the legacy the legacy that that I believe
01:29:30
Basil Manley leaves for us today obviously we've already touched on the piety of experiential
01:29:37
Calvinism paradox is related to the paradox of a life redeemed by grace yet riddled with remaining sin and passion passion has to do with the the passion of what
01:29:54
I call spirit anointed preaching and what what
01:30:02
I bring out in that particular chapter in regards to the passion of spirit anointed preaching are principally principally to two lessons that two lessons that are that are brought out concerning that one of them is one of them is is the fact that Manley himself was obviously deeply affected by the truth he was delivering from God's Holy Word that's that's the first matter when it comes to his preaching a point that that I make which in fact this is actually one of the footnotes in this particular chapter it says that in a letter
01:30:58
Manley wrote in 1856 he was troubled over the danger he saw and how educated ministers were given to this killing tendency to formalism he lamented that the spirit of piety is fast oozing out everywhere under the influence of regular bred theologians says
01:31:24
I say that he was he was disgusted he was disgusted in what with what he saw in these dwarf divines who knew full well how to reach the mind but not the heart of their hearers and what
01:31:41
I point out about that is that it is significant that that Basil Manley who supported so strongly the formal education of Baptist ministers did not want their education to be the death kneel of their ministries due to their lack of preaching with an earnestness and passion that would dig deep in the hearts of those they sought to connect with the truth and I say that it is a lesson for us that having a sound theological education is not enough to fully equip a man to preach effectively.
01:32:15
Basil Manley was a very passionate preacher he was a preacher whose sermons his contemporaries would say and testify to would always reach to the heart and soul of his hearers when people left
01:32:33
Manley's wherever Manley preached when you know when they left at the end of the service they were deeply moved they were deeply affected and in this this was because of the earnestness the passion with which he proclaimed
01:32:52
God's Word and it was very clear very demonstrable to those who heard him that what he was preaching from God's Word had first and foremost affected him and so that was you know that that that's what our reference is the passion there was nothing cold there was nothing formal nothing stiff in his preaching and then at the same time you know the this legacy
01:33:20
I call the passion of spirit anointed preaching so it's not just passionate preaching we're talking about but it's preaching
01:33:27
God's Word that is under the superintendence of the Spirit's power and anointing and what
01:33:33
I maintain in this part of this particular chapter in the book is that there's no way you can explain the fact that Basil Manley was such a mighty reaper of so many many conversions whether he was pastoring in Edgeville South Carolina Charleston South Carolina or in Alabama he saw he saw what many what many pastors don't see he saw he saw the reaping of many souls into the kingdom and of course as we know the only explanation for that is the supernatural power of God working through Basil Manley as a gospel preacher so so that's something that I that I strongly emphasize in this particular chapter and especially especially at the very end where I say that Basil Manley leaves both gospel ministers and those who hear them this critical legacy for the gospel minister his preaching should be both passionate and spirit anointed the sermon he preaches should first preach to him and affect his own life and sanctification while at the same time he should not be satisfied with only a well -prepared sermon no matter how much it has affected him personally he needs more than this for preaching he needs power that comes from outside himself he needs the
01:35:05
Holy Spirit to clothe him with power from on high and as for those who hear the gospel minister they need to pray that God will anoint his man in the sermon he gives as they also pray that God will anoint them to hear his word effectively proclaimed and so that's the practical outworking of that particular lesson and legacy and we have let's see here we have
01:35:32
Ronald in eastern Suffolk County Long Island who asks do you think the deadpan intellectual lectures that we hear from the purveyors of dead orthodoxy are not being used of God in the way that they should because of the fact that passionate preaching and homiletical excellence are what
01:35:57
God uses to drive home the fact that what the man is saying is true if it is true he is going to be passionate about it he's going to be excited about it now
01:36:08
I'm not trying to say that every pastor always has to be running around and screaming at the top of his lungs but the same time dry dead lectures are no way to deliver
01:36:20
God's eternal truths is that something about what you were trying to say before yes it is because that's something that Basil Manley himself was driving out in his own day and age and especially to two young ministers that came under they came under his influence you know yeah when we talk about when we talk about passionate preaching
01:36:46
I mean you know we're not talking about a man who is just animated and and as this brother said you know running running about it you know no that's not it it's it is an earnestness that comes from the heart of the man that has been that has been deeply affected by the truth of God's Word and so so there is there is not going to be anything in his delivery that is that is cold that is dry that is that is detached you know in other words he's not going to just sound like he's giving just a cold a cold lecture and you know but this is something that that his own hearers the people who hear him they will recognize and they will see how how much the
01:37:54
Word of God and and what he's preaching from the word has affected this man and so I you know
01:38:03
I I do I do agree with this listener that you know that it it is sadly sadly
01:38:13
I mean this is something that that you find missing a lot I mean you know there is such a thing as it's what
01:38:20
Martin Lloyd -Jones once called dead orthodoxy you know and I think that there also needs to be a distinguishing remark made about the those that are naturally soft -spoken men you could still be a soft -spoken preacher and be passionate yes my former pastor
01:38:43
David Campbell who is from Scotland he just returned to the UK and accepted a call there and I guess it was over a year ago now to North Preston Evangelical Church in the northern part of England he was a soft -spoken man but he was a passionate preacher you can see that he he his heart was welling up with either joy or righteous indignation depending upon what he was talking about it was clear that he was being moved by what the gospel was you know telling his heroes what the
01:39:19
Word of God what that passage he was was reading or preaching from was saying he was being personally moved himself and that was also being it was contingent contagiously moving to those listening in the in the congregation yeah well and that's
01:39:39
I appreciate you making that distinction because yes you can you can be a soft -spoken preacher and yet still have this passion passion for the truth of God's Word passion for Christ that is that is driving you and in that the thing is that will be evident in those who hear you
01:40:03
I mean you know they will they will see it they will be affected by that so that you know that is important but in addition to all of this in regards to wanting to see this holy earnestness in in the preacher you know the other the other very strong point that I made in this particular chapter is there has to be there has to absolutely be the power of the
01:40:32
Spirit of God that is anointing that is clothing that is that is carrying the man who is delivering
01:40:41
God's Word you know there you think about what the Apostle Paul wrote to the
01:40:47
Corinthian Church in 1st Corinthians chapter 2 when he said that you know I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and crucify
01:40:54
I was with you in weakness and fear and much trembling and my speech and my preaching
01:40:59
Paul says in verse 4 of that chapter he says it was not with persuasive words of human wisdom but in demonstration of the
01:41:10
Spirit and of power there has to be that because as I pointed out in this chapter it wasn't
01:41:22
Basil Manley's passion alone that made him such an effective and powerful preacher of God's Word it was the
01:41:33
Holy Spirit anointing clothing carrying him you know super as super intending the preached word through this man of God and sadly and unfortunately in so many circles in evangelicalism there there doesn't even seem to be a category for this among so many pastors that that I have seen from afar and even and even up close you know
01:42:08
I think about Martin Lloyd -Jones when he gave his latest famous lectures on preaching to preachers in 1968 in Philadelphia at the
01:42:16
Westminster Theological Seminary and of course as we would as we know that those lectures would eventually be published as the famous book by that title and the very last chapter of that book is on of all things it is on the need for the anointing of the
01:42:33
Holy Spirit in preaching because Martin Lloyd -Jones made it clear wonderfully that without the
01:42:40
Spirit's anointing without his power in your preaching then your preaching is null and void even if you are declaring the truth you must have the
01:42:51
Holy Spirit delivering that truth and translating that truth to the hearts of your ears and and thereby you know awakening them and making them alive to what the
01:43:04
Word of God is saying through your preaching so and of course lest anybody think that we are contradicting our
01:43:13
Calvinism God will very often use very ungifted preachers and teachers to bring salvation to his elect which is the case with Charles Haddon Spurgeon's own salvation story when he escaped a blizzard by going into a primitive
01:43:32
Methodist Church and a man who was not even appointed to leadership filled in for the pastor and just was repeating some phrase
01:43:40
I can't remember right now the scripture verse look look to the Lord look to the
01:43:45
Lord that's what he kept saying the Spurgeon yeah Isaiah 45 and verse 12 yeah right we have to go to our final break if you want to send in a question do it now
01:43:55
Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com are rapidly running out of time and by the way Ronald in East Mississippi County you have also won a free copy of piety passion paradox the life and legacy of basil manly senior don't go away we're gonna be right back after these messages from our sponsors as host of iron sharpens iron radio
01:44:30
I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is
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Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's
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God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world they believe churches need to turn to the
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Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in spirit and truth
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Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus reading preaching and hearing the
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Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy and sobriety discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
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01:48:20
Welcome back and we have a listener in Kinross, Scotland for you
01:48:25
Kurt, Pastor Kurt. Murray in Kinross, Scotland says, is the demonstration of power of the
01:48:32
Holy Spirit in preaching that you have been speaking of, what is known as unction, or is unction something slightly different?
01:48:42
It is known as unction. Unction is an antiquated term that was used by, especially during the
01:48:55
Puritan era, and even in the generation following them with men like Whitefield and Gilbert Tennant, they, yes, they understood the unction of the
01:49:07
Spirit to be the same thing as the anointing, the liberty, the power of the
01:49:14
Spirit in preaching. So, yes, that's correct. And I'm breaking a rule today, Murray. Since this is a very small book in weight,
01:49:22
I am going to be personally sending this to you, to Kinross, Scotland by, or should
01:49:28
I say, to say thanks for your question. I usually, or we usually, do not ship out books to overseas listeners because CVBBS .com,
01:49:37
who ships out the Bibles and books won by our listeners, could not afford us to constantly be shipping out things overseas.
01:49:44
It would really drive up a huge bill. But in this case, since you are such a faithful listener, and since the book is very lightweight,
01:49:52
I am going to ship that out to you myself. Make sure we have your full mailing address in Kinross, Scotland. And we have time for one more question.
01:49:59
We have Mary in Cork, Ireland. And Mary in Cork, Ireland says, how is it that we can bring to light heroes from the past, such as Basil Manley Sr.,
01:50:12
while at the same time bringing out their good qualities and their truthful teachings, not letting our hearers be swayed by their negative beliefs and actions, such as those that involve slavery, that could unintentionally give people a sad conscience about racial bigotry?
01:50:34
That's a great question. I really appreciate that question, because one thing that that I went after in my book was to avoid the two biggest pitfalls in biography.
01:50:49
And that is, on the one hand, you want to avoid hagiography, where all you do speak about, all you do write about...
01:50:57
Is John Hagee. Just kidding. But all you write about are just the good qualities of the person, and even to the point to where you leave the reader wondering, were they even fallen?
01:51:15
Did they ever fail? Was there even sin? Were they even fallible? And there have been plenty of Christian biographies that have been written, sadly, in that pitfall.
01:51:26
The other pitfall, which is the other extreme, which is what we see most of today in Christian biography, and especially among academic historians, and that is the arrogance of presentism, where, you know, all you do focus on are the negative qualities, the sins, the failures of the individual.
01:51:50
And you do it to the point of where, you know, it's exaggerated. In fact, you even begin to wonder, since we're talking about the genre of Christian biography, you begin to wonder if the subject was even a
01:52:04
Christian. So I went out of my way in this biographical to avoid both pitfalls, and so I do speak candidly about Basil Manley's defense of slaveholding.
01:52:19
I speak very candidly in regards to, you know, to the fact that the slavery, the institution of slavery that he would defend, and that he would adhere to in the
01:52:33
Antebellum South, was a slavery that, at its very root, scripturally was condemned by God, because it was rooted and based in man -stealing.
01:52:48
And yet at the same time, while saying that, and showing that, and proving that from the facts of history, yet I also go out of my way to show from other primary source materials,
01:53:00
Basil Manley himself, how that he was first and foremost a Christian, and so he did everything he could, everything he knew how to do, to regulate the institution of slavery that he was involved in, to regulate it by scripture, and to basically
01:53:19
Christianize this, you know, this institution. And so, you know, so the application from this particular chapter in the book, which is the chapter on the paradox, the paradox of a life redeemed by grace yet riddled with remaining sin, the application for us, in the light of that, is to say, we need to be humble.
01:53:45
Humble in, first, how we treat men like this from the past, and realizing that, number one, not a single one of us grew up in the
01:53:55
Antebellum South. So we really don't have a clue, and we don't therefore have the authority or the right to say how we would have stood or where we would have stood in regards to slavery in the
01:54:05
Antebellum South, because none of us were there. And, of course, the bigger question, or a question as big,
01:54:10
I should say, is how we would have responded to it in regard to making sure that we preserve the safety of those slaves should we end slavery as an institution, because willy -nilly, haphazard ways of doing it could have meant, and surely would have meant, the certain death of many of these slaves.
01:54:36
Well, Basil Manley, in that regard, and I have this in the book, there are excerpts from letters that he wrote to his eldest son,
01:54:47
Basil Jr., in regards to the conflict that he had internally over the whole institution, and wishing that it could be abolished, but what held him back was what would end up happening to the slaves once freed, when they knew nothing of how to take care of themselves, and they were not prepared for such freedom.
01:55:16
So what I try to point out in those letters that he wrote, I mean, from his own pen, from his own heart, is that he genuinely cared about those that were his slaves, even though, again,
01:55:32
I mean, we would not endorse that institution in the Alabama South, because it was rooted in man -stealing, yet, nevertheless,
01:55:40
Basil Manley was a Christian, and so for him, he wished for the abolition of the institution, it was a great burden upon him in having slaves, and in being in what he called a slave country, i .e.,
01:55:56
the South, but as he looked at it realistically, at that time and period, he saw that the immediate emancipation of these slaves, just basically throwing them out, you know, okay, you got your freedom, go now, you know, try to live independently and do what you can, well, he saw that that would have been a disaster, because he said, how are they going to take care of themselves?
01:56:24
Who's going to take care of them? And what's interesting about that is that when you think about the
01:56:32
Emancipation Proclamation that was issued by President Lincoln, this was,
01:56:40
Abraham Lincoln was not even thinking in those categories, one, because he didn't have any slaves, and so, and two, the
01:56:51
Emancipation Proclamation for Lincoln was purely a military measure, which are his own words, about that emancipation of the slaves, it was simply to keep
01:57:02
Britain and France out of the war, siding with the South, and thereby, potentially losing the war between the states.
01:57:09
And so, while on the one hand, we do thank God that that particular institution, that it did die, and it was finally abolished, but getting there to the abolition of it, that would take, and it needed to take, it needed to take special care and special time, basically, in preparing all of these
01:57:38
African slaves for, you know, for the freedom that they eventually would receive. How are they going to take care of themselves?
01:57:45
And I think it's interesting, if I may interject this and say this very quickly, it's interesting that in the first few years of Reconstruction, following the war between the states, you had so many slaves going back to their former masters, because they didn't know how to take care of themselves.
01:58:04
And that's an interesting part of that whole history that you don't hear much about, and that's not an, obviously, that's not an endorsement in any respect for the institution that they were a part of, but it is showing that it's much more of a complex matter and a complex issue than a lot of people today want to even, you know, admit.
01:58:32
Right. And we are out of time. We've actually gone over time, and I want to make sure that our listeners know that if they want to get this book, they can go to freegracepress .com,
01:58:42
freegracepress .com. And if you want to investigate, do more research on Providence Reform Baptist Church, where our guest is the pastor in Pine Mountain, Alabama, you can go to that website at prbc1689 .org,
01:59:01
prbc1689 .org. I hope you visit there if you're ever in Pine Mountain, Alabama, or if you live there, especially, or have family, friends, and loved ones there.
01:59:11
I want to thank you so much, Kurt, for being our guest again. I look forward to your return. I want to thank everybody who listened, and especially those who took the time to write.
01:59:19
I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.