Interview with Pat Abendroth

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, "'But we did not yield in subjection to them "'for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel "'would remain with you.'".

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

The Manning Up Conference and Why Men Need It

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and I'm here today to talk about a conference that's coming up next Saturday that if you are a male, you need to attend. I love the topic, I love the speaker.

I love the speaker so much, I almost love him like he's my own brother. On the line with us is Pastor Pat Abendroth. Pat's coming to Worcester next Saturday for a conference at Bethlehem Bible Church, and we're here to talk about that conference.

Pat, welcome. Hey, Mike, thanks. Great to hear from you, and great to talk to you, and I can't wait to be there next week. It should be a great time with the men.

As we seek to man up together. Well, that's the name of the conference, Manning Up, M-A-N-N-I-N-G-R. Maybe you could say it's time to man up. Subtitled In Church, Home, and Culture, next Saturday, March 27th, 8 a .m. to about 11 .30 a .m.

It's $5. You can register online at nocompromisedradio .com. Just donate $5, print out your receipt, and you can have a good time of getting blistered by the Bible. How's that, Pat? Sounds good. It sounds like my brother.

It sounds like we might even get along. Yeah. Pat, you've done this conference once or twice before. Tell us first, not the details of the conference, but how did the men respond that you talked to at the previous conference, Manning Up?

You know, we just finished doing this at Omaha Bible Church, and before that, I've done it at a couple of other churches, and we had a great time. I like to say it was the best men's event I've ever been to, except for the speaker, because otherwise it sounds self-serving.

But we had a great time because we were talking about our lives, about how we're supposed to live, and what God has made us to do, and there's just great appeal to that with men, especially in light of the fact that it's not just more rules, it's not just more man-made stuff.

We're really and truly looking to Christ.

Well, we're talking to Pat Ebendroth, my brother. If you're wondering, he's nine years younger, but you would never notice it by his preaching or by his wisdom. Manning Up conference at Bethlehem Bible Church, March 27th, a week from tomorrow, a week from Saturday.

And I think it's important, Pat, to give our listeners a little background and elaborate a little bit more from your previous comments. You know, promise keepers came along, and there was an appeal to people that said, you know, we want to be better men.

They just had the wrong appeal. What was wrong with the promise keeper extra seven promises approach, and why would this conference be different?

Mere Masculinity Versus Looking to Christ

Yeah, great question, Mike. And what we, you know, the world even seems to have it figured out that men aren't leading, and that men need to be leading in one way or appeal to what I call mere masculinity.

You just need to do something that's somehow evolved, and that's not the solution. And at the worst, that's what the Church ends up doing. They just mimic that supposedly masculine, but that's the Church at its worst, making a mistake at it.

What's interesting is it may not be seven promises, which are just as Christ loves it.

That's a great answer, Pastor Pat. Abendroth is on the line here in Worcester, Massachusetts, next Saturday, March 27th. He'll be preaching here Sunday, March 28th, as well, Sunday school, Sunday morning, Sunday night.

But if you'd like to register for the conference, info at nocompromiseradio .com. It's $5 plus breakfast. If you don't register by Monday, this coming Monday, it's just $5, no manly breakfast with venison or whatever else men like to eat.

Pat, I've been telling everyone who's been coming that we're gonna have a session, a breakout session, and give one another Holy Ghost back rubs. Could you comment on that, please?

I don't think I've ever had a Holy Ghost back rub, but I do, and can promise to your listeners, as long as you can provide the video setup for it, we will learn how to give a man hug with only one qualifier.

We'll learn how to give a man hug. We'll watch the video, but we will make sure that once we know how to do it, that we ourselves will not do it.

I think they did that at Promise Keepers, the whole Holy Ghost back rub. I just wanna know what happened to the poor guy who sat on the back row of the LA Coliseum because he didn't get anything. I guess we could kind of shout and make the sanctuary into two different sections.

We've got Spirit, yes we do. We've got Spirit, how about you? And then the other guys could kind of say it louder. Are we gonna do that at all?

The other side's gonna be, I think. They said, we've got Jesus, yes we do. We've got Jesus, how about you? And on and on the drivel goes, and it's no wonder that men are frustrated, and it's no wonder that they're saddened by the whole thing.

Pat, which one do you think is more true, or are they equally true? The problem in local churches, evangelical churches, because we could dissect the world, our liberal churches, but the problem in evangelical churches, which is a bigger problem?

Men don't lead, or women are usurping the leadership responsibility in the home. Which one, are they both together equal? One is related to the other? How do you diagnose that?

I diagnose it by diagnosing it, I think, the way you would. I probably learned it from you since you're my big brother. The answer is yes. It's a problem on both sides, but at the end of the day, men need to lead.

And if men lead and are truly godly and honoring to Christ, then at least it's more appealing than for the women to lead. So it starts with us. Great thing to be able to know that it starts with us, and in one sense, it ends with us.

Tell us a little bit about the conference in general, Pat, some of the key themes, maybe, to kind of wet the whistle of some of the listeners. I can say that you are gonna go later this year to South Africa and speak at the Shepherds Conference in Johannesburg, in Polokwane, I believe, and one other place with Phil Johnson.

I think that should be a fairly manly experience going to South Africa with Phil, don't you think?

Experience? He's bringing his wife, and I was told I could bring my wife, which I would love to do, but with five little kids, it wouldn't work out, and sadly, I'm bringing another pastor to work out.

We won't be doing any man hugs, that's for sure.

Sadly for the pastor, sadly for you. Okay, let me get back to the point, Pat. You know what, I think we should do this instead. Give me the background, give me your testimony, a short testimony, how God called you into His kingdom and then into service, and Pat, especially tell us a story about the guy who prayed for you while you were an unregenerate.

Give us that story.

Conversion and the Gospel in a Bible Church

I didn't find out about that till much later, Mike, but we grew up, the two of us grew up going to church, sober or not, but we would go to church, always believed in God, that He was true and real. The Bible, it was true.

The only problem was we didn't have a clue about what the Bible said because, so after being confronted with the gospel in college and even lying about my own commitment to Christ, I think God used His word in our Bible church.

A man was there that I went to high school with, but we ended up going to lunch later that week, and it dawned on me as I saw him, it went through my mind, you know, this guy must be a Christian and maybe that's why he was different, and I knew what he was going to say.

So I love to tell that story because, indeed, I am unsaved.

Well, if you're listening, I'm sorry, Pat, go ahead. Well, I was gonna say, for those of you who are listening, WVNE, you should bring your unsaved friends. If you've got a dad who's not saved and he's needing to hear the gospel, this would be a good conference.

This is not just for people who do leadership well, who are godly and mature saints. The good news about the gospel, and I know you'll agree, Pat, is for those of us who have failed in our leadership, there's no time like today to repent and ask God with His powerful Spirit to help us lead godly lives now based on the power of the resurrection, true?

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And that was one great thing about this conference, when probably didn't, and just all different kinds of men and plan any kind of activities. It was an overnight thing, and we didn't really plan anything.

The one challenge was, let's talk.

Meaning? And I say that because... We're talking to Pastor Pat Ebendroth, who's going to do a conference here in Worcester one week and one day from today. That'd be March 27th. It starts at eight o 'clock at Bethlehem Bible Church.

Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston, just north of the reservoir. Start at eight, we'll eat till about 8 .30, and then there'll be three sessions on manning up in church, home, and culture. Pat will do session four during Sunday school hour, Sunday worship at March 28th.

March 28th, rather. And then he'll preach from the pulpit here at Bethlehem Bible Church in the morning and in the night. So if you can't make Saturday and still want to hear Pastor Pat, you can come on the 28th here at Bethlehem Bible Church.

We'd love to have you. Or if you have a good church home now, just come on Sunday night to hear Pat preach. It's $5, register at nocompromiseradio .com, or you could send us your money. Hey, Pat, tell us a little bit about some of those activities.

You said you'd like to have no particular things to go on, but what was that whole moon dancing thing I heard about the late Saturday night? Was that part of the men's deal?

Oh, Mike, it was guys, and it ended up being great because it just allowed us to talk about the book.

Biblical Masculinity, Sons, and Why Wild at Heart Falls Short

How about bringing sons? I've been encouraging men to bring their sons. Is there a cutoff age for sons who could understand? Would you encourage sons up to what age, et cetera?

Yeah, Mike, I think it's gonna depend on the son, as a matter of fact. We did the cutoff at high school, but certainly a junior high student could listen. But what I'm not doing toward them, it's geared toward me.

Some dads love their sons enough to bring them because they want them to amend someday, but I'm definitely not going to try to have that kind of a shotgun approach and have it be for everyone in that sense.

I want to speak pointedly, and I think that really...

Excellent. Remember Grandpa Henry? He was our grandfather on our father's side. And speaking of shotguns, he hurt his leg being a man actually rescuing his wife, Erna, out of a car wreck, but he hurt his leg.

And so when I would go hunting with my father and grandfather, Grandpa would always just hold that double-barrel shotgun out of the window while we'd drive up and down the fields in Nebraska. So when you said shotgun, I was thinking about Hank.

Last time, I think that's illegal, but oh well.

Tell us a little bit about Wild at Heart. I think that there are lots of men who read that book who had a true biblical desire with godly motives to be more masculine from a biblical perspective. But what's wrong with the Wild at Heart model, and how is this conference going to be different?

What's wrong with the Wild at Heart model ends up being explicitly unbiblical, you know, in the name of sad and sick, promote it and the way people gobble it up, because yes, it's true, we don't want to have boys not right, but to say in the book, basically to explicitly deny what Jesus said.

Jesus says, turn the other cheek, care what Jesus said that day when we get to that cell, and I guess it's just evidence we're tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. What's interesting about that kind of book is you'll ask young men in the church about that book probably in a year or two, maybe even now, and they'll say, no, I've never heard of that today or two years ago.

You have what we don't want to do, Christ. Mike, one thing that I can't wait to talk about, and I'll get on my soapbox and talk about it, is the fact that what men need is not Wild at Heart, how to love their wives.

What they need more like something like John Murray, redemption accomplished and applied, or Ephesians 5, we're called to love our wives as Christ.

Well, Pat, with the whole Wild at Heart issue, you know you have some immature believers and they buy it, and so I'm usually not bugged at people who buy the book and want to learn something, but what bugs me is the pastors that promote it.

They're the ones that should know better. They're leading the flock. They're to guard the flock. They're to teach sound doctrine and refute those who contradict, and for them to promote it, partly it shows me they have no discernment, but I think partly, Pat, I think it's laziness, and I believe that's part of the fabric of men in the world.

If God says work before the fall, after the fall, we are lazy, and so there's still that remnant of laziness that still is in Christians today because we are by default lazier. We struggle with that until the Spirit of God can help us, and so I don't even know if there's a question in there.

I'm just talking. Hey, it's my show. It's my show. I was thinking about watching Braveheart, and I thought, no, that's not the way to motivate. It's this, what does the Bible say, and then how can we, by the power of God, do it?

And I'm so thankful that you're bringing the gospel home. Like, you know, I'm teaching a parenting class at the church, and how does the gospel apply to parenting? How does it apply to being a man in the church?

How does it apply for an elder board who are supposed to epitomize godly manhood? And speaking of elder boards, Pat, tell us what is typically the problem in an elder board in a local church when it comes to biblical manhood, because somewhere we've got to look for an example, and if the elders aren't acting that way, then how does a young, immature believer follow?

So give us a charge for elders to step up and, in light of the gospel, be like men.

Elders, Theology, and the Roots of Biblical Manhood

Yeah, absolutely, Mike. The elders need to do that, not because they somehow in an artificial way, but elders are there, yes, to be our example. If you don't have elders who are following him, it's a given that, in fact, maybe we could turn it around, Mike, and say that if there are not men being...

We're talking to Pat Abendroth regarding the Manning Up Conference, Be a Man at Church, Home, and Culture, in Worcester, Massachusetts, March 27th, Bethlehem Bible Church. It's all morning, breakfast included, if you order, if you order, if you register by Monday, register at nocompromiseradio .com, $5 conference for men and their junior high, high school-aged boys.

Pat, with a couple minutes we have left, would you, I already know you agree because we think alike, we've gone to the same schools, et cetera. If someone is acting effeminately, and I don't mean their wrist is limp, but effeminately, they're not acting biblically in terms of who they are, can't we back up and find out that they've got wrong theology that's driving their lack of biblical masculinity?

That is to say, how close does a proper view of God and theology drive the methods and drive the imperatives of this is how we act? It's all gonna be tied back to that,.

As you and I would agree, Mike. Who is God, and how do you understand who God is? With a good, crucial vision of who God is, who Christ is, for that matter, he is the lion and he is the lamb. And if we're going to learn anything about being a man from him, I understand he's the God-man, but he's also certainly a man.

We're going to want to emulate that, or at least that means we're actually.

Well, I don't know about all your sessions, Pat, but I hope you say something like this. Maybe I would say it, because it's my show, and I know you have class and manners and etiquette and all that stuff.

I would probably say something like this. If you're preaching in an Arminian gospel, a gospel that somehow makes salvation a cooperation between man and God, some kind of synergistic cooperation that you are actually making, you are manufacturing biblical effeminacy.

And I love Dan Douglas' book, Pat, that you probably read about the feminization of American culture. And here in New England, in Massachusetts, when Calvinism went out of the pulpit, a high view of God, a sovereign hand of God, when it went out of the pulpit, what came rushing in?

Romance novels and Unitarianism. And so I think there's a direct correspondence between preaching a high view of God, what we call Calvinism, doctrines of grace, and biblical masculinity. You got 30 seconds.

You want to comment on that? I want to comment on that and say I agree. And then, if I can use a little shaming, some sanctified shaming, when men who are Calvinists, or say they're Calvinists, wait for their wife to do the right thing before they do the right thing and act godly, I want to tell them and look them in the eye and say, I don't care if you say you're a Calvinist.

I think you're a Pelagian. I think you're an Arminian because you need to understand your wife and her lack of godliness is not something you're waiting for. You actually need to initiate like a good monarchist.

Pat Ebendroth is shaming us. Manning up conference. Pat will be here March 27th. NoCompromiseRadio .com. Morning conference, how to be a man at church, home and culture. Pat, thanks for coming. Thanks for taking my call.

Thanks, Mike. See ya. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Ebendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE its staff or management.