News Roundup: Erica Kirk's Forgiveness, Michael Fosters PCA Crusade, & is Christ Done with America?

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My husband Charlie he wanted to save young men

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Just like the one who took his life young man

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On the cross our Savior said Father forgive them

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For they not know what they do Man, give him

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I forgive him because it was what

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Christ did And is what Charlie would do the answer to hate is not hate

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The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love Love for our enemies and Love for those who persecute us

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Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris What a powerful moment from the funeral last night for Charlie Kirk the public funeral

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I believe there was a private service last week, but this was An incredible moment in not just the history of the conservative movement

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Not just the history of the organization turning point USA But I think the history of the country and I got so many messages from people last night exclaiming how

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Excited they were moved. They were how many tears they had shed. It's just Incredible to watch a funeral with such high -profile people and To think that they were at least

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I would say half of them from what I saw Sharing about Christ or sharing the gospel explicitly.

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I think Marco Rubio did that I'm trying to think who else was very explicit in a gospel presentation.

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I know The pastor for Charlie Kirk Rob McCoy was up there sharing the gospel.

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I know even JD Vance said that he had talked about Jesus in those

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Two weeks the time since Charlie Kirk's assassination more than he I think he said he had his entire life before that point and there's just a lot of energy in the air energy for Christianity energy that seems to be channeled in a right direction

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And I don't want to be the guy because I often end the guy who always sees the threats, right? Who sees what could just off make this train go off the track?

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What could make this momentum wasted? There's obviously always going to be threats the devil's at work

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But I think we should take a step back and thank God and enjoy this moment. I certainly have and I hope you have as well and There's so much to say

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I want to talk about this clip But not before I talk about just the greater context that we're living in now because it is an incredible context

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Donald Trump Showed up to an event and he was not the main source of attention he was in fact

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His presence there did not even produce the most viral clips. I don't believe he had one line that got a lot of attention where He said and I think he was joking some people say he wasn't he had a smile on his face he was

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I Think in that context you can say he was joking Especially at a funeral for someone who as his wife just said would have offered forgiveness

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Trump said that he differed with Charlie Kirk because Charlie Kirk wanted to love his enemies and Donald Trump says he hates his enemies and this created all kinds of Reaction on social media

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People saying that we want Donald Trump to do that. He's a civil magistrate. Well, he's talking about personal guys

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I'm pretty sure he's talking about how he personally feels not the justice system itself So many conflations going on but that was certainly wasn't even the clip that got the most attention.

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I think it was the one I just played and It's an incredible clip and I posted this is

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Christianity and I that's all I said when I saw it I thought that's so powerful and I want to explain that to you

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I want to get into it a little bit because leave it to Calvinist, right? I assuming most of the people that were pushing back on this were probably reformed in their soteriology

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But leave it to Calvinist, right? We will make sure if there's something even the slightest bit whether it's a lot or a little or it's

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The intention is obvious, but it wasn't formulated correctly we will be there to make sure that it is

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Articulated correctly with all the T's crossed and the eyes dotted and of course,

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I I just a little bit but not really There's some truth to that stereotype and I when

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I saw this I just thought look at the big picture here guys This woman just lost her husband and it hasn't even been two weeks

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It'll be two weeks I think this Wednesday, right and Here she is in front of 40 ,000 people

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Not just 40 ,000 people because there were television cameras there and the whole internet was just on a first Sunday night, especially it was active and She says in front of all of them

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That not just I have forgiven him. She says a few other things in there. She says she quotes

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Christ's words Father forgive them for they know not what they do She says that's what what

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God has done for us. And she says that's what Charlie would do And I took it immediately when

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I saw it as this is a woman who is struggling. She's struggling to get it out There's probably a mixture of emotions there certainly sadness being one but also just the the weight of the fact that she has had her husband taken from her in a murder and I Immediately just It was knee -jerk it was

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Natural for me I immediately thought this is a

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An emotional It's an emotional communication to everyone listening that she possesses

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Within her the power that comes from God The willingness that comes from God to extend the kind of forgiveness that God gave her and And so I translated it in a way.

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I didn't just cling to the words. I looked at the whole scenario. I Assumed that she was probably not not only not a theologian, but I don't know where her

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Walk with God or her spiritual depth or her spiritual maturity or knowledge of the scripture I don't know where any of those things really are except for the fact that she was married to Charlie Kirk So I've never heard her talk before and I know that she's a

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Christian That's about all I know and based on that limited understanding That's how

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I interpreted that immediately in my head. I didn't even have to think about it I just thought she's willing to forgive now

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I think a lot of people took her just a sort of like the transcript of her words and they looked at it and said

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Well, look, she she's forgiving and you can't just unilaterally do that You can't just absolve someone of the obligation, which is really what forgiveness is forgiveness is extending to someone a grace gift a

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You're letting them off the hook For a debt they owe you you're wiping that slate clean essentially you're and I think in forgiveness

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There there really are two major things going on depending on the infraction You have a personal offense a personal affront

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You can have people who have offended you and it's not personal right and they still have to you know

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They someone bangs their car into your car when you're in a parking lot, right? Is there a personal affront there? Not really.

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They didn't mean it personally But they still owe you money because they've just caused hundreds of dollars of damage to your car

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If you were to forgive them of that debt, you would be letting them off the hook You say you can go now.

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I will take care of this damage, right? There's also though like I said and I think most instances an extra component of a personal damage a personal relationship that has been hindered or a potential relationship that is impossible to have now it's a

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More of a sub slightly subjective thing. It's very real, but it's particular to the situation

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You can't necessarily put a dollar amount on it and so there are situations like that where they're exclusively that it's just someone has offended you personally and They need to repent you need to forgive them, but there's no there's nothing else that's inhibiting the relationship

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It's literally just a personal offense Those two things the damages the actual damages and then the personal offense now in this situation

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Let's transport those two things in for a moment Charlie Kirk Can't come back to life and until Christ comes.

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I mean, there's no way to for the killer to obviously restore the what he took so There's the only thing that he can do is cast himself on the mercy of God at this point and Christ will have to forgive him because Christ took that punishment

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Christ went to Calvary's cross and He endured the wrath of God poured out on him for those kinds of sins that offer is available

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That's all he can do with that when it comes to Erica He can't bring

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Charlie back But obviously without even knowing Erica he has wronged her in a deeper way than any human being has ever wronged her in her entire life and Probably any human being will wrong her.

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It is very deep and so There is obviously a personal issue there and there should be so there's a justice issue and there's a personal justice in the sense of there's

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There's what he has done in a criminal way that's public that the civil magistrate needs to punish that Christ can forgive because of What he did on the cross there's also the personal matter of Him taking from two children their father and taking from a widow

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Her husband and from a family their son. There's that matter. I Assume and I saw people doing this that she was saying she he's forgiven of her

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Legal responsibility here that she he some I saw one comment. It was on one of my threads

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Suggesting that this would make the legal case against him more difficult. I don't think so guys. No legal case is pretty

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Pretty rock -solid. He murdered a man. So I think this is purely the personal end of it and She is saying

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I believe that when she says I forgive him that She is she's a willingness within her not to hold this against him she is she looks at him as one of the people that her husband tried to reach that her husband loved because he was in the audience and she thinks that There could be a relationship not

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I don't mean that she's gonna be friends with the person necessarily or anything like that or they're even they may not never even communicate, but that the

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The debt that he owes her on a personal level. She is willing to Set that aside.

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That's how I took that whole thing and I Think that the only way that this is possible to do that is through the power of the

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Holy Spirit I don't think there is a way to truly forgive someone or be willing

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I should say to forgive someone apart from that because the The debt is so high.

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The cut is so deep so I want to share with you just a few things about forgiveness and I'll take some questions and we'll move on but some

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Bible verses and then I also want to share with you some Commentary from Ken Sandy's book the peacemaker.

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I went to The master seminary for a semester and I took a class in conflict Resolution and that was one of the books that we read and we debated

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I remember there was a class for about half a class We debated whether or not you could unilaterally forgive someone and Ken Sandy thinks that you can under certain circumstances

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I don't think this is one of those circumstances at all I don't think this is this, you know,

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I'll give you some verses that talk about this But I think this is a circumstance where for there to be a complete

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Completion to this forgiveness there there needs to be a repentance coming from the other party but I do think that this is a

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First step and Ken Sandy talks about that too that there's a step one and there's a step two to forgiveness

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And I think this is a step one. I think that's what we were watching. So Let me read for you.

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First. I'll read Ken's a comment from Ken Sandy on the step thing He says when an offense or actually no, that's not the well, maybe

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I didn't have it queued up. I thought I did Okay, here it is when an offense is too serious to overlook and the offender has not yet repented

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You may need to approach forgiveness as a two -stage process The first stage requires having an attitude of forgiveness and the second granting forgiveness

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So her words seem to suggest she was granting forgiveness in that moment. I I don't necessarily think that's where she's at She's not in a position to do that if he hasn't repented, but I do think she's in a position to complete that first stage of Having an attitude of forgiveness, which is something we are commanded to have that's the amazing thing

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That's the miraculous thing that God does within us So let me give you some verses

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This is from Luke chapter 6 verses 27 through 28, but I say to you Who here love your enemies do good to those who hate you bless those who curse you and pray for those who mistreat you?

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Well, tell me how that's possible apart from God, right? Acts 7 59 through 60

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They went on stoning Stephen as he called out on the Lord and said Lord Jesus receive my spirit and falling on his knees

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He cried out with a loud voice voice Lord. Do not hold this sin against them Having said this he fell asleep meaning he died

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Lord, do not hold this against them. I mean petitioner. He's not saying I forgive them He's not saying those words, but he is petitioning the

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Lord of glory the Lord of justice To not hold the sin against them

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Because the sin would require their death. The sin would require punishment in everlasting torment in hell and He doesn't want that for them.

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Now you could supply in this. I mean he's not saying it but you could supply He's asking for God to do a work in their hearts so that they repent and I'm fine with that if you think that's what

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He's asking he didn't say that but I think that's reasonable to conclude given what we know about God and theology and so forth

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Proverbs 25 21 through 22 if your enemy is hungry Give him food to eat if he is thirsty give him water to drink for you will keep burning coals on his head and the

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Lord Will reward you so these are general that's a general passage just about the way we're supposed to approach enemies

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There should be a willingness to help to give to forgive This is something that Christians have believed and it's one of the things that separates us from Others if we lose that ability if we're just about Vengeance if we are so stuck on Punishing and we and we import

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I've seen this a little bit where people are trying to import Carl Schmitt's friend enemy distinction Into categories where it doesn't really belong.

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It's a political analysis And it should impact the way that you view politics, but it's not something that's supposed to be imported into personal relationships necessarily or into you know theology about What forgiveness looks like and so forth or how to treat enemies on a personal level

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It's just not that but I've seen people doing this kind of thing and it does concern me a little bit I'm not gonna lie

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But we need we need to want justice Okay, that's biblical But we also need to have this attitude this personal attitude and that's different than wanting public justice for our enemies

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Now Jesus when he said this okay, and when he said father forgive them they know not what they do Remember what happened in that story afterward?

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remember that after this took place We have it didn't end there right the

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Gospels end, but then the story picks up in the book of Acts and in the book of Acts Peter the

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Apostle Peter who was So confident that he wouldn't deny Christ and then he did The Apostle Peter who ran away the

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Apostle Peter who exhibited a form of cowardice Jesus didn't give up on him. Jesus said feed my sheep

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Jesus then empowered him through the through the Holy Spirit to Proclaim on the day of Pentecost to everyone in Jerusalem where Christ had died that they were responsible for killing the

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Lord of Glory and What happened that day they were cut to the quick it says in the

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King James They repented They were sorrowful they had the fruit of repentance and the church was born

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Thousands and thousands and thousands came to Christ a matter of weeks when

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Jesus said father forgive them for they know not what they do I Believe that that was the fulfillment of that He was asking the

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Lord. He loved he loved these people. I think that's what Erica Kirk is doing She is extending love to this gentleman.

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It's not a gentleman really but to this murderer Who killed her husband? Jesus while he was dying extended love extended an attitude of charity

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To the very people who were killing him who didn't realize the magnitude of what they were doing.

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That's the sentiment. That's the attitude and That's something that's incredible Ken Sandy says this forgiveness does not automatically release a wrongdoer from all the consequences of sin

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Although God forgave the Israelites who rebelled against him in the wilderness He decreed that they would die without entering the promised land

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Even Moses was not shielded from this consequence Likewise, even though God forgave David for adultery and murder

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God did not shield him from all the consequences that naturally flowed from his sin This is not to say that God is unmerciful

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He is quick to remove the penalty of separation and often spares us from the many of the consequences of our sins

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When he does not allow certain consequences to remain it is always to teach us and others not to sin again.

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I Don't think there's any reason to believe that Erica Kirk doesn't want justice here God requires justice even when forgiveness is extended in many instances

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There's public penalties for sin because it's not just a sin offense. That's a that's against someone personally

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It's not just that the relationship has there's consequences to relationship It is that there's a threat to the broader society.

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You can't have people in your society who murder Otherwise you don't really have a society right?

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This is one of the problems we've had for a long time We've let a lot of murderers including those who kill children babies

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To just walk on our streets and to have influence and it's not it's a sick sickening thing.

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It's a threat to our society One last thing

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I'll say for people there are some people who think you can just unilaterally forgive in a forensic sense

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Proverbs 1911 says a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and it is a glory to overlook a transgression this is this is in the vein of The whole

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I think first Peter talks about this too, I think I had that queued up but love covers a multitude of sin right, so this is in There there is and Ken Sandy talks about this in his book.

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He thinks that there is a Way of living where for minor infractions

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There's a grace that you can give in the moment. You can overlook things. We do this all the time. Hopefully we do we should

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I Don't think this fits into that He has wronged her at such an egregious level.

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It's not something that you can just Overlook, I mean when we do that, right when we overlook something we just think well that's not a pattern for that person or that's

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Something that I'm not gonna think about it right because forgiveness contains in it within it the element of Not remembering a sin anymore.

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That's what Christ does for us. He doesn't remember them anymore It doesn't mean that he forgets like he has amnesia.

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It means that he's not gonna hold it against us anymore and there are minor things like that don't cause a lot of damage that you can just You're not gonna hold it against the person

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It's It's something that they may be ignorant to of this is so premeditated it's so Egregious at such a level.

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I just don't think that this fits into that but I do think the way to read this is it is a

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Wife who's grieving who's already having trouble finding the right words and she's trying to express that she's extending love

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To this person has a willingness To forgive I believe that was an offer of forgiveness.

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I believe it was a genuine one and That's how I take it so I'll take questions on that but I believe that this is

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Not something to get all tied up in knots about but there are people that seem to be really Motivated to analyze her words and so forth and so on Cosmic treason says on the one hand

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I don't agree with people saying you can't forgive without the guilty person's repentance on the other hand You don't think you are called to forgive everyone at all times

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There seems to be a difference between forgiveness in your heart versus forgiveness in the terms a personal reconciliation

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Or is that just my intuition? I think that's good. I think that's right I think a lot of people today when they think of forgiveness

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Especially because of the language that's more therapeutic over the last 40 50 60 years of forgiving yourself there's a sense in which

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There's an intern forgiveness is an internal thing that you do for yourself to write

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Like you can't hold on to bitterness. So you better forgive you better let go it's a letting go and and I think in a certain

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Sense that's partially true like forgiveness is letting go of something a debt that someone owes you

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It is doing that The way that God forgave us was through the blood of his son it required a sacrifice

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So there's a repentance that is necessary to receive that forgiveness It's and there's a penalty right there's sin and there's also the penalty for sin so With Christ's blood it doesn't just restore the relationship to God.

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It pays for the penalty of Sin that God needed to exact upon us. He exacted it upon his son.

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I Think that a lot of people when they hear her words the reason that you saw people getting up and clapping is because they interpret it as She is letting go of the anger hostility bitterness

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That often would accompany this and I think in any case without the power of the Holy Spirit naturally just does you are so bitter at that person right that you hate them essentially and She's saying

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I'm not going that path. She even says that at the end, right? essentially that We're called to love and not to hate.

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So I think that's what that is I think that's what the people recognized. I think forgiveness does have a bit of a elastic

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Definition context usually determines what people mean by that and I think that's what she meant by that So I think it is a willingness to forgive in the forensic sense if you will

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The relationship upon repentance and so forth. She's there she's willing but but yes, there is a letting go of the kind of The bitterness the anger the hatred that would eat you up inside and in giving it to God and Hoping for that person's salvation.

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I mean she says this that my husband tried to reach people like this Well, what did Charlie Kirk try to reach them with what was one of his major messages?

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It was the gospel So she wants this person I think to come to know the Lord All right more.

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I don't want to stay on camp on this But I you know, that was kind of the thumbnail was forgiveness. So we'll spend a little time on it

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Okay Hannah says Ecclesiastes 8 11 because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily

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Therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil That's a big problem.

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How long is it gonna take to try this guy, right? It'll be years before He's given a penalty probably

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Does anyone know if they tape this area off as a crime scene? I'm sure they did

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But you know, it's kind of like a crime scene where everyone's running away and so forth John is the them that Jesus asked the father to forgive the multitude the

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Sanhedrin the Romans or the elect Well, I just answered what I think

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I think that the them there is the people surrounding him while he's on the cross who are participating and I think the fulfillment or answer to that is probably

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Pentecost when these people who partook in Killing the

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Lord of Glory are then Repentant a repentant and they receive Christ So that's how

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I take it No drama mama says I didn't see anything roped off Well, I don't

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I don't know about roped off with like literal ropes But I'm sure I think that the general area where it happened is likely.

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I don't know. I'd haven't looked at it I probably shouldn't talk. I'm just assuming here standard procedure Carly says

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I've extended forgiveness to my mom and forgiveness has been a release for me I'm not going to hold on to the offense, but she is unrepentant and so reconciliation hasn't happened.

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Now. That's an interesting distinction So reconciliation is the relationship goes is mended.

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Okay I don't see I think forgiveness and reconciliation when it comes to God are one in the same and that right there is a

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Reconciliation of our relationship we were estranged from God and In the process of forgiveness, we are brought back into a right relationship, but there is something interesting

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We are declared righteous. We are forgiven in a justification process once and for all

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But then first John says that we if we confess our sins He's faithful and just to forgive meaning there's an ongoing process of confessing our sins as well that in the moment

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We may be justified before God But we get our feet dirty in the world we essentially

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In the here and now time, you know through all time through in cosmically speaking from heaven's perspective

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We may be cloaked in the righteousness of Christ but We have committed a sin in the here and now

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Against God and it's possible to grieve the Holy Spirit, right? So I think there is a forgiveness as in a restoration of the relationship in The moment even though in an ultimate sense

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We are on our way to heaven. We are cloaked in the righteousness of Christ. It's on that basis We have any kind of forgiveness anyway and and so so I think that illustrates even what

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I was saying at the beginning that there's You have the penalty for the sin and you have the relationship that has been

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Damaged and I think Erica's in that section that that relationship section when she's talking about this

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John she misquoted scripture. I think that's what a lot of people are having trouble with. She misquoted it. Oh I don't oh,

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I think maybe what Sheila means is she actually missed like she got yeah, she got a word. I Think what did she say father forgive them for?

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They instead of saying they know not what they do. I think she said they not know so yeah Okay, but I think we know what she meant

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Simon says when a close family member has not repented of their wrongs towards you is the willingness to forgive

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But waiting for the repenting a right attitude. I think that's a perfectly fine attitude. Yeah Yeah, I think that's perfectly fine.

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Um, I think there's certain circumstances where Even in a family you have sometimes especially in a family

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Because you're close and because there's already obligations there and then when those obligations are violated sometimes in egregious ways and let's say the person hasn't repented you can go through a process of giving it to God of And some people will call that forgiveness you're not holding on to sin, okay sinful tendencies,

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I Don't know if that's biblically nest. I don't think that's a Dictionary definition of forgiveness though.

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I think that's That would be included in forgiveness, but I think what that is is a you're not going to return evil for evil kind of attitude, right and So you there's hard work that has to happen and really that's you repenting to God saying

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I'm viewing this person in a way I shouldn't but it doesn't mean that you

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I don't think you're obligated to forgive in the sense of letting that person completely off the hook with everything Certainly not with the consequences trust has been broken trust just isn't restored automatically, right?

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But also the relationship itself, let's not assume let's not pretend this relationship is just better a lot of families do that Let you sweep it under the rug.

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No, let's not us. Let's not do that. I'm just gonna sweep it under the rug We actually need to work through this in order to reach a point of reconciliation ie actual forgiveness

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So I think you can certainly Have a willingness to forgive some people call that forgiveness I think you can not hold on to hate and bitterness and resentment.

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Some people call that forgiveness and Not actually have actual

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Forgiveness like here you have not actually that person is not released from their

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Obligation to you and the relationship is still damaged People often

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I've noticed this at least over the years people will often go through situations where There's a problem.

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There's a bigger little they they have a damaged relationship and they it takes humility to say

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I'm sorry, please forgive me. I was wrong I repent of this whatever this is one of the reasons like Big Eva and So so many people are reluctant especially publicly when they publicly done a sin

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It's embarrassing to go out there and say I was wrong. They don't do it. I Have seen though often

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People that have a hard time with that Sometimes over the period of years you can either get things can get worse.

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You can drift apart or It is possible. I think to Signal ways of Like without some

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I know this is like terribly This isn't functional. This is very dysfunctional, but I have seen people

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Because they don't really know how to navigate that in a relationship they will start treating someone with kindness and their actions say that they actually are repentant, even though they haven't given the words and There are

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Christians I think who they want the formula. It's like the words the words have to accompany actions anyway, and sometimes the actions happen without the words and forgetting a

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Relationship can be restored without going through the process of the words, right?

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So it's it's not I don't want to hyper fixate on the words either. It's about the relationship. And what is she communicating?

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Erica Kirk is communicating. She is on a relational level

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Giving up all the hatred and all the bitterness and all of those things that would actually accompany it She's not holding anything personally against this guy as so much so far as she can and she is willing to forgive him

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That's the best I can make of it Do you think that forgiveness? Came forth from her own choice or might she have been scripted to insert that in order for increasing the energy and emotions

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I have no reason to believe that wasn't her own choice. I'm sure she scripted it because She it's a funeral and she's emotional.

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So she's probably scatterbrained and needs to try to script things, but I I There I saw some posts out there that were disgusting to me is saying, you know, look at the

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Stage presence there's like these lights and things and I mean it was turning point USA and that this means that Erica Kirk is somehow

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Setting herself up to for a show. I mean, excuse me She just let lost her husband.

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I think The stuff you saw on stage it some of it was a little odd in my opinion, but I think that's turning point

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I don't think that's Erica and There's no reason to believe that I saw Someone honestly who's so her whose character is so lousy.

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I don't even want to say their name, but unfortunately because They their influence has been trafficked in to evangelical circles

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So maybe I need to because because the guys like like Joel Webb and frankly who said things like he's a political savant

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He's presidential. Okay, Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes went out there and was saying this is basically a

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Republican party Presentation it's an event to promote the

36:19

Republican Party and it's to platform JD Vance No What if JD Vance is a good friend of Charlie Kirk as we've heard on Charlie Kirk's own podcast his own

36:32

Was it co -host was talking about how much Charlie Kirk was loved

36:37

JD Vance JD Vance is speaking. He's a friend of Charlie Kirk Charlie.

36:44

These were Charlie Kirk's friends This isn't like, you know some not everything is an op.

36:50

Not everything is a setup Not everything is just to deceive you guys. Yes. There's things that have deceived you

36:56

That's not everything and you need to use your your brains here, and I'm not trying to pick on Sharon at all here, but I'm saying more broadly like we need to use our brains and Examine evidence here and not just kind of overlay reality with a preset

37:15

Notion of who's guilty who's innocent who's deceiving us who the villains are who they be careful of that be careful of that make sure you're informed by the

37:24

Word of God, which gives us an Understanding of what original sin is what? Anthropology is who humans are humans act in certain ways.

37:32

So think keep that in mind I'm not saying to get rid of that instinct But then also look at the evidence look at these situations and to just blame, you know without any evidence

37:44

Go out there and and say this is just for promoting Vance to be the next president

37:49

I mean, no kidding Vance's, you know, the vice president you're like it wouldn't be a shock if Vance is the front -runner if he already is

37:57

Trump already has said that I Think he said Vance and Rubio would both be good And most people are looking at Vance seriously is the one to take

38:06

MAGA to the next level so the it's just foolish to think everything's a setup every

38:11

I Don't buy it guys. I don't buy it. So I didn't mean to unload on that comment

38:16

Sharon I think that's a good was it Sharon who said that or yeah, that's it's a good question

38:21

Okay, but I it sort of led me into thinking about all these other things. I saw online be careful of that All right,

38:27

I understand many of you have been deceived 2020 was a big eye -opening moment Be careful be on your guard use discernment.

38:35

I'm gonna have a conference in November where three three part three sessions on just discernment we need to have discernment, but Don't be one of these people who

38:47

Sees deception everywhere. It'll make you go crazy. You will black pill in ways that you have never black belt because you are

38:56

You're thinking it's all rigged. It's just all set up. Everything's a set. Nothing's true You got a I and and then the people usually saying that they want you to just trust them

39:05

That's why they're doing it. You can trust me because I am not I have not sold out.

39:11

I have not betrayed you, right? Be careful of that guys. There's a move.

39:17

All right I'm gonna I'm gonna try to kind of skip through some of these and I apologize

39:25

I know there's so many of you have good questions Yeah, who did who did who did

39:31

Fuentes think would be better than Vance Newsome Kanye yeah, right Well, you didn't vote for Trump the last election, right?

39:38

He was against Trump. So, you know Okay, Bob the

39:43

Baptist for $5 Do you think the left will ramp up violence or calm down in the light of Erica's forgiveness?

39:49

I don't think I don't know that it's gonna make a dent to be quite honest with you on the left. They The hard left at least the left that is celebrating

39:58

Kirk's murder. They're on a tirade Anyway, I maybe some of them will my prayer and we should all be praying this maybe some of them will be pierced just like on the day of Pentecost when

40:09

Those in Jerusalem were pierced when Peter said you killed the Lord of glory with wicked hands you did it but look this was in God's plan and They were pierced they were cut to the quick So I can't tell you it's been a day, but I'm hoping some will come out with testimonies of how that moment

40:26

Changed them because it has the power to if God is behind it Okay, we're gonna move on to some other issues here.

40:33

What issues are we gonna move on to? That's a good question. I have so many queued up, but I think

40:40

Do we want to talk about Big Eva and their reaction? I got several videos for you I think what we'll do is we'll play the

40:45

Tucker Carlson video real quick. I'll talk about anti -semitism and Then we'll get get to Big Eva stuff.

40:51

How does that sound? Oh, you know, yeah, we'll do that. We'll do that It's kind of out of order, but I think since we're talking about the funeral, let's play this clip

40:58

Ultimately, he was a Christian evangelist and it actually reminds me of my favorite story ever

41:05

So it's about 2 ,000 years ago in Jerusalem and Jesus shows up and he starts talking about the people in power and he starts

41:16

Doing the worst thing that you can do which is telling the truth about people and they hate it and they just go bonkers

41:22

They hate it and they become obsessed with making him stop. This guy's got to stop talking We've got to shut this guy up And I can just sort of picture the scene in a lamp lit room with a bunch of guys sitting around eating hummus thinking about What do we do?

41:36

About this guy telling the truth about us. We must make him stop talking and There's always one guy with the bright idea.

41:44

I could just hear him say I've got a deal. Why don't we just kill him? That'll shut him up That'll fix the problem

41:56

It doesn't work that way Okay, so that was Tucker Carlson and He got some blowback online because some people thought well, this is just anti -semitic look at Tucker Carlson Who we know he's really talking about.

42:10

He saw him at the Jews The Jews killed Christ. They're plotting to kill him. Look at the Jews are

42:16

Christ killers according to Tucker Carlson That's what he's trying to say. That's his audience is getting the dog whistle loud and clear and I watched that and I thought

42:23

I Understand Tucker's had some interesting guests. We'll put it that way that have said some off things to some and Frankly, I've heard some clips.

42:33

I haven't watched full full episodes that I thought how did that guy get on Tucker? And why is he saying that? But there's no reason to imply that that's

42:42

Tucker's motivation here. It's very clear from what he's saying that a Martyr becomes more powerful after their death when they're a true martyr when they die for a cause for a belief for a mission and They have people following them.

42:56

Those followers don't die. Those followers are still around and in the case of Jesus The idea that they could shut him up They could stop his message by killing him with such a foolish message and his laugh is at that of how foolish it is

43:11

How foolish it is to think that you could do this You can't do it to Charlie either if anything.

43:16

He's comparing Charlie maybe to Jesus, but I don't know why that was not somehow People weren't up in arms about that.

43:23

Okay so Tucker says this and it's just I think a tale as old as time.

43:30

This is human nature is what it is This is what humans think. I don't like my enemy. I want to do something.

43:36

Maybe if I kill him Well, have you thought about the consequences of that? Have you thought about the problem? You think you have now being exacerbated?

43:43

by Carrying out a martyrdom. That's what Tucker's talking about. And it's very clear.

43:49

I think to me I he didn't even he I mean, what about this? He purposely didn't say Jews So is that you know, is he really trying to dog whistle to everyone?

43:58

I don't buy it. I Think the people who are doing that are off and this is where I will

44:04

I'll try to give you the too -long -didn't -read version if I can of anti -semitism here I did a whole podcast last week, but I noticed it was one of my least watched podcasts in the last few weeks and It was an intellectual look at anti -semitism and I had

44:18

Hussein Abu Bakr Mansur on to talk about it fascinating podcast So if you haven't watched it, I would say go watch it

44:25

But I talked about an article that he wrote that was entitled He was called anti -semitism and humanism and it's the

44:33

Abrahamic Metacritic. I believe is his sub stack and He wrote it

44:38

I think about a year and a half ago or so I read it there's many other articles I have queued that I want to read from him because he's

44:44

I think he's brilliant, but he connected some dots that I have wanted to connect for a while and he and it showed me clearly and You can listen to our hour -long conversation, but I'm trying to boil it down here that Anti -semitism as an ism.

45:02

Okay is Basically a 19th century invention. It's a pathology.

45:09

It's a way of thinking it is a Critical theory and No, that doesn't mean there's a woke, right?

45:17

I've said this before Wokeness was egalitarian The people on the right even the ones who are going this direction are not egalitarians but there is a critical theory component to Dictionary definitional academic

45:33

Definitional anti -semitism now, I know so many of you I saw this in some chat groups earlier today

45:38

So many of you you hear that word and it's like you just your brain turns off, right? It's you don't want to entertain that word.

45:45

You don't want to use that word and I understand that and I've even advocated I don't think this is a good word to use and critiquing people who are

45:54

Going in that direction. I think there's an academic context for this though Because there's a words have meanings.

46:03

I'm an authorial intent guy I think what's happened is this Willhelm Maher the person who coined the term anti -semitism did so in a positive way

46:12

Thought it was a good thing when he I mean later on in life He switched his view but when he coined the term in the late 1800s thought it was a good thing to be against Jews and It but it wasn't just against Jews.

46:23

It was a pathologized way of thinking So I'm gonna just go on a little tangent here for a moment. It's people on X I asked them you want me to go on this tangent?

46:31

They said yes, so I'm doing it Wilhelm are so Judaism a cease -cease if you desire humanity to begin

46:38

Humanity was Judaized by Christianity Judaism rules the world. So there's a few things in these quotes

46:45

Judy the world is run by Judy this thinking okay.

46:51

It's it's a philosophical critique and And Christianity is an extension of this and one of the things man sure said when he's on the podcast

46:58

He's like when you start seeing actual anti -semitism Hatred for Christianity isn't far behind it.

47:05

I've seen this with some of the pagan right guys they go from this sort of Metanarrative of the

47:13

Jews are to blame for everything Jewish power or Israel and they don't even make distinctions between that because they're different things But they'll say it's all one thing

47:20

Talmudic quote -unquote Judaism. I like them more academic term rabbinical duty, but whatever they say they always say Talmudic and then and then

47:26

I'll give you quotes from the Talmud which Half the time because I'll look them up and I'm like, that's not really what it says

47:31

But it Talmud Talmud says some awful things, but it's but they don't and they don't understand usually how the

47:37

Talmud is taken in these circles, it's a Series of books.

47:42

I mean you go to a Hasidic Jewish person's household and you just see shelf after shelf after shelf of volumes

47:49

Okay, it's just rabbinical tradition is what it is and it's up for Interpretation.

47:55

It doesn't mean it's not like our scripture where it's you look at it and that's what it means you can the point is to basically have debates about these things forever and and to Cut your teeth on I mean, why do you think so many

48:08

Jewish people end up being lawyers? you know people raised in that environment because I mean that they're used to that that's kind of anyway, so Um, so there's you know

48:18

Talmudic Judaism secular Judaism different forms of rabbinical Judaism, etc. It's all one thing

48:24

It's all Jewish power. It's all it's all this this sort of globalist Cabal, okay, so Wilhelm are he he introduces some of this kind of thinking and It's for him.

48:39

It starts out if you start reading his book on this about anti -semitism. It starts out Within I think the third or fourth paragraph he is quoting the

48:48

Bible here at least summarizing the Old Testament and he's saying This relationship the

48:53

Jewish people had with the God of Abraham. Look how terrible this is This they're set apart from everyone else.

48:59

They're different. They have this strict harsh law They are the other they are

49:06

They're not with the program. All right, and for any utopian scheme actual globalist utopian scheme

49:13

Everyone's got to be in lockstep. You got to have conformity So humanities on this

49:18

March humanity enlightenment rationalism says humanities on this this destiny It's a there's an eschatology involved in it and we're going towards utopia.

49:27

And these are the people that hold us back These are the people with stuffy traditions. They won't let go of these are the people that separate themselves from the rest of society

49:37

These are the people that have a higher external law. They answer to outside The human system.

49:44

They're not looking internally for truth. They got this external thing how archaic and It translates into things like their capitalism their markets

49:54

Involvements and this is what Karl Marx says Karl Marx, even though he's ethnically Jewish raised Lutheran He writes this whole book on the

50:01

Jewish question and that's basically what he says He's like this is this is what Jewishness or Judaism is this it's a it's the huckstering it's the wheeling and the dealing and the capitalism and the market and The commercialism that's what it is and it's it's all a scheme to to get money and to and in so doing this they are they are separate they have created a

50:27

Space for themselves if you will that is Outside the general welfare of everyone else.

50:35

They don't care about everyone else, right? This is just an extension of Judaism That's what it is. This is yeah, the

50:41

Bible talks about The Bible gives all these lessons in economics and so but what they've done is they've just continued in the pattern that was laid down for them thousand for thousands of years and So so Karl Marx gets in on this

50:57

German idealist get on this Immanuel Kant Kant gets in on this You have

51:02

Ludwig Feuerbach gets in on this He says Jehovah is nothing but the personified selfishness of the

51:09

Israelite people Okay, so they psychologize a reading of the Old Testament to the exclusion of all other nations absolute intolerance the secret essence of monotheism

51:17

Now if you start reading some of the German bulk and Nazi stuff And I think

51:24

Christians who aren't familiar. They will tend to gravitate towards look. He's quoting

51:29

Luther Why is he quoting Luther and first of all? Not not quoting Luther in context

51:35

Luther was not an anti -semite in the modern ism sense. It wasn't a pathology it was a critique of the

51:42

Jewish religion and it was circumstantial and That's the difference with a with an ideology

51:48

Which is a result of modernity where you try to find a scientific kind of baseline

51:56

Simplistic Precepts or precept for why everything is the way it is Then you come up with things like everything is run by the patriarchy feminists or everything is about Power dynamics whiteness.

52:10

That's critical race theory, right where everything is Jewish power. It's Jewish power that's running the world and that that's basically a

52:20

Ideology that you assume it before you even look at facts It's just an assumption that you bring with you, you know how to assign blame

52:28

You know who the villains are and who the heroes are Like, you know that it was Israel who tried to kill Charlie Kirk, even when you don't have any facts that lend to it

52:36

I mean, it's that kind of thing. That's the kind of thinking And I have many examples of my head from of where I've seen this even in the last few months even coming from Christian circles

52:47

Where I'm like, that's an ideology. That's not an assessment of the data or the situation, right?

52:53

now There's there's a spectrum with any kind of ideology. We saw that in 2020

52:59

There are people who you know posted the black square and that's all they thought about it, right? And they thought we had George Floyd of these police shootings.

53:06

That's racism, but they they weren't serious about it Then there were the diehards right the social justice warriors. It's the same thing with this

53:12

It's it's like that with any ideology. You're gonna have a spectrum and Generally the deeper you get into it the more you're just as you you know

53:21

The pattern sort of reinforces itself every time there's a bad thing that happens It's Jewish or whatever you have the pattern that reinforces itself

53:26

I've seen people try to form rescuing devices when it's not Jewish They have to figure they have to find a

53:32

Jew within two or three steps to blame something on right? But but sure you can see patterns in Hollywood.

53:38

You can see how many Jewish people are there You can see patterns in the pornography industry or at least I think right now most if not all of the major porn company

53:46

CEOs are not Jewish, but If you go to the history of how pornography became kind of more or less

53:54

Normalized in the United States, there's a whole lot of Jewish people in that particular Process and there's reasons for this the immigrants who came here that were

54:03

Jewish in the 1880s to 1920s they they did not have the Protestant values that characterized this country.

54:11

It was a way to make money it was There's there's reasons behind this but People will look at these patterns and then they'll start saying that's the that's the

54:20

Rosetta Stone That's the key that unlocks every door That is the end -all be -all pattern for everything and they start applying it to things where it doesn't make any sense to apply it

54:29

Or they only have tunnel vision. They can only look at one threat and that's the threat and they can't see other threats It blinds you that's the problem with ideology and that's what anti -semitism is.

54:37

That's the ism. It's an ideology That's not I see that is separate from the idea of Jewish hate

54:44

Jewish hate hating Jewish people or hate, you know, hating any ethnic group is simply wanting them destroyed now those things often can go together, but it's

54:54

I Think you can you can have people who are anti -semitic who aren't necessarily Jew haters the oftentimes like I said, they go together, but I do see that as something different.

55:05

I think there's People who might just hate Jews who aren't even ideologues about it too, right? That I think that's what's important understand it's a pathology it's a way of thinking

55:17

Christian critiques of Jewish people who who have in -group preferences and have values that aren't

55:24

Christian and are have influential positions and Have policies that they generally support among themselves and so forth

55:34

There's I think play I think someone can look at the data look at all of that information

55:41

That's out there and they can make assessments that are even negative assessments and saying well, you know

55:47

This isn't good for our country here It's not good It's not good that our entertainment industry is controlled by people who are and this is how

55:53

I would frame it because I don't see It as purely a Jewish thing, but it's being controlled by people who are not

55:59

Christian Yeah, that hasn't been good for entertainment industry I would agree with a statement like that now some people would want to point out that there's an outsized influence of Jewish people

56:07

I Would also point out other things I would point out that there's a lot of Perversion that has nothing to do with Jewish people that is in Hollywood part of that is my own family background

56:19

I my own grandmother had This will really get the conspiracy theorists going my own grandmother had a personal business where she managed the accounts of Hollywood actors and The financial accounts and so anyway

56:34

That'll be all the conspiracy theorists are saying what? When the Epstein stuff came out and 2020 people were talking about what was going on in Hollywood.

56:43

It didn't surprise my family. We were like, yeah, that's that's Hollywood We know this we know

56:49

Hollywood is Completely involved in debauchery. There's very few. I mean, it's the exception when you find actors who aren't involved

56:56

I mean look at the P Diddy stuff, right? So I would I would expand the critique far beyond the influence of Jewish people, but But you could certainly say that having people who weren't

57:06

Protestants that in the early years Were more or less leading this kind of business had an impact and it wasn't a good one, right?

57:15

And you could say that as a rational person. It doesn't mean you're anti -semite and it doesn't mean that you're you hate Jewish people either

57:21

You can say I don't think our relationship with Israel or is the best or they're too reliant on us or APAC Lobbies us too hard or you can have all these positions and not be anti -semite, right?

57:33

And this is what I see going on right now. So I'll cut to the chase. I See two basic ideologies at war with each other and as Christians not neither of them are ideologies

57:43

We should get involved with because neither of them are Christian or conservative to be quite honest with you

57:49

They boiled reality down to simplistic notions and the liberals will say that any kind of noticing

57:58

Jewish people or any per it doesn't matter if it's Jewish they say if you notice black people Have more contributions to crime you statistically or if you notice that I don't know trying to think you know

58:11

Hispanic or Latino people are You know had this tendency and it's a negative tendency if you notice any of those things, right?

58:18

You're always you're anathema because the liberal project is supposed to just look at individuals not groups

58:24

That's the idea of course they separate but it's self -refuting because they divide humanity into those who look at individuals and then those who look at groups, so they still make a groups for those designations, but when they hear anything that is critical or Takes into account notices someone's ethnicity and it's

58:43

Jewish They will put that into the anti -semitic category and I think that's what happened to Tucker Carlson here it's like hey, that sounds an awful lot like He's trying to signal to everyone they look like who killed

58:55

Christ Oh Jewish people. Okay, the Roman soldiers, but he's signaling out. He's singling out the

59:00

Jewish people. Therefore. That's anti -semitic, right? And it's like that's not a pathology. That's not no that's not

59:06

Wilhelm Mars Antisemitism, that's you reading anti -semitism through your Universal ideology your universal ideology that takes

59:15

Abstractions and just makes it the key that unlocks every door and on the other side you do have

59:20

I think forming an anti -semitism that is properly defined the

59:25

Ideology if you want to say anti -jewish ideology, that's generally how I frame it because I try to sidestep the word anti -semitism but there is an academic historic use of that word that would parallel this so the you have anti -jewish ideologues who are

59:41

Reducing everything down in reality down to that and as a Christian, I don't think we need to be involved with either one right, we can we can try to be as objective as possible create paradigms that make sense of all the available facts and information and Also take into account the fact that human nature is evil

01:00:00

As far as the original sin that we have, you know, we understand that I think since 2020 everyone's looking for it

01:00:07

They know there's evil They just don't know where is it? And how do we and once we find it? What do we do about it?

01:00:12

And if you can say it's those people over there, you know, and we just got to get rid of them It's a simple solution, but I think the best thing for Christians right now is to advocate the doctrine of original sin

01:00:23

Actually sin is something that people have it doesn't matter what your IQ is

01:00:29

It's IQ sin doesn't come from IQ sin doesn't come from From a certain ethnic ethnicity necessarily, of course

01:00:37

There's traditions that reinforce sin and all of that But sin is fundamentally something that comes from within us inside of us as Jesus said it's not what goes in It's what comes out.

01:00:46

It's what it's what's already inside of us because of our Adamic nature and that's what we need

01:00:51

Christ for and last night was an opportunity to see that doctrine and Especially I think in relation to salvation that doctrine was exalted

01:01:04

That we need we have a problem even Trump's off the hand comment about I have a hate my enemies Maybe you can convince me not to I mean, that's it

01:01:11

And that's sort of an admission that he's giving he's not not necessarily proud of it, but that's just who he is I'm gonna be honest, right and I just think we're in such a good moment right now.

01:01:21

Oh, we really are don't let's not derail it Let's not get hooked into these things don't

01:01:27

Depending on what your platform is and where you are. Do not get Sidetracked and distracted by ideologues who want you to to get obsessed with their particular thing.

01:01:38

I would say don't even try to Build a platform by rage baiting or engagement farming based on ideologues.

01:01:46

I don't I frankly I mean, I'm I'll talk to you I've had a many people reach out to me that want me to help convince them out of a hole because they've

01:01:54

They've gone into lately it's been the the Jewish stuff, but it's like I got in too deep John.

01:01:59

What do I do? I'm finding myself hating people and I don't and okay, we'll talk through it. Let's let's you know, I'll try to help you here, but I Think for most of us

01:02:09

We just we can ignore that stuff and get on track To the positive vision to forwarding that March towards the positive vision.

01:02:19

What is the positive vision John? It's what Charlie Kirk advocated It is the salvation through the

01:02:25

Lord Jesus Christ the forgiveness of sins the reconciliation of the Father it's that it's the gospel message and it's with that a entire way of living that includes

01:02:38

Christianized traditions influenced by Christianity traditions that have been passed down to us a wonderful justice system where justice is blind a federal system of divided powers a

01:02:50

A Judicial system that in which we are tried by a jury of our peers and we try to minimize as much as possible the kinds of Frankly the kinds of unfairness and in injustices that other countries have because justice isn't blind it's

01:03:15

It's a system that has done well for a country in which people would limit themselves because of virtue

01:03:22

So we got to be on the virtue bandwagon. We got to be on the And even in our politics on the we need to be about law and order bandwagon

01:03:31

We need to it's really two things. We need to reconcile ourselves to the father and to his law Okay, reconcile ourselves to the father repent and trust in Jesus Christ Reconcile ourselves to his law.

01:03:42

He has a created order that he set down men are men women are women men can't be women Nations are a real thing.

01:03:49

They have actual definition. It's they're not just abstractions We're not just propositions. We reconcile ourselves to that and we keep going.

01:03:58

That's the mission right now Run for office get involved in your community do whatever you can if it's a podcast and do it to the glory of God But spend some time with the

01:04:08

Lord go before him cry out to him before a holy God and ask him what you can do

01:04:14

Ask him how you can contribute. The moment is now seize the moment. That's my my basic and You know,

01:04:22

I'll try to avert threats and stuff as they come up, but that's the main thing We got to seize the moment because we're in an incredible moment and it is no

01:04:30

Thanks to any of the usual cast of characters, it is no thanks to Big Eva it is no thanks to you know, how many of the

01:04:37

I mean quote -unquote even kind of you know, People who are how do

01:04:43

I describe this like the Christian right people? Who have been all about wanting power and so forth how many of them even get a boost from any of this, right?

01:04:52

It's I mean goodness gracious It's right. It's our Calvary Chapel pastor.

01:04:58

It's It's the vice president of the United States, it's

01:05:04

Many of them government officials. It's Pete Hegseth. It's one of the greatest voices for Christianity right now is the coming from the

01:05:14

DoD Not the place. I thought it would come from. I mean the Lord is using the weak things to shame the strong I was looking this morning

01:05:22

I was trying to find all the big Big Eva accounts that I've gone after in the past. I'm like are they saying anything hardly any of them are

01:05:28

I'll show you a few that are but hardly any of them are They're not they should be jumping for joy right now to see all the elected officials who are

01:05:37

Proclaiming the name of Christ. It's insane, but you're not seeing it They could think

01:05:43

I think because they can't get any credit for it. Probably. I don't know. I don't know I mean you give me a paradigm that makes sense of it.

01:05:50

So we're gonna talk about that Hopefully that was helpful to some of you. I'll take some questions. Oh, we got ten for ten dollars starch

01:05:55

Manning Why can't the white church have an honest reckoning with white supremacy instead? We're promoting it

01:06:01

I don't see any prominent voices in the church offering truth and reconciliation here Okay.

01:06:06

Well, you know, I'm assuming by white church you mean Sort of like the

01:06:11

Anglo Protestant tradition and will incorporate Lutheranism, I suppose So Protestants, I mean

01:06:19

I'm guessing here If that's what you mean, you know Why can't churches that are predominantly white or predominantly from these traditions that have their source in Europe?

01:06:29

Have a reckoning with white supremacy. I guess my question would be what would that look like to you?

01:06:34

Right? What would that be? I Think most people don't see this in their church

01:06:40

So they wouldn't have a motivation You might go on X and see all sorts of stuff and I don't know why that is

01:06:46

My algorithm has changed a few times and I don't know if this is reflective of reality or if it's an algorithm I don't know what it is.

01:06:53

You know, I This is fun. It kind of funny yesterday. I looked up because I was here I my algorithm was just feeding me like Holocaust denial stuff and Anti -jewish stuff that was just off the wall and I was like, okay.

01:07:06

Why is my whole feed look like this? I mean, I have a curated list that I have on my computer, but on my phone I don't so I was like, why does it look what is this?

01:07:13

And so I I just for the you know, I keep seeing Jewish people fund this and that and the other thing

01:07:18

So if for the for the heck of it, I decided to look up. I just asked Grock. I just say hey

01:07:24

Grock what? What foreign countries have the most invested in?

01:07:31

In in X right since that's apparently how you're supposed to figure out whether something's compromised by a foreign government

01:07:37

Qatar was the first one then Saudi Arabia and then the United Arab Emirates and I was like Oh boy, so I I texted it to some groups that I was like, is this

01:07:47

I've never heard anyone talk about this And I posted it today. I was like, does this mean anything? I haven't gotten any like straight responses other than Well, it's not significant enough to mean anything.

01:07:57

Okay. Well, maybe that it could mean nothing that really could but I said man If that was Israel though, they would like non -stop people would be talking about it.

01:08:05

So I'm not saying that's it I have no clue but my algorithm is all off and I look at that algorithm and I see the things that are being said there and then

01:08:13

I Look at my church and I'm like, I don't see those things being said there and that could be there's people that are Suppressing those views because they know how it looks if you you know, they're not anonymous

01:08:23

But I don't think so I think in most churches and I have I have a pretty good like pastors network and I'll ask and I have asked this

01:08:31

Question and people almost universally say it's not happening at their church. Now. There are exceptions

01:08:36

I have had pastors tell me it's a real problem in their circle, but for most places From what

01:08:43

I can gather. It's not an issue. So I don't I don't know that people see the need for a reckoning I also think that we were supposedly we had a reckoning in 2020 with white supremacy and and that was

01:08:54

Obviously that was a woke social justice infused kind of neo -marxist narrative and That was basically what

01:09:02

I cut my teeth on combating. So that's obviously not the reckoning. I think you're talking about But I think what you're what to put the most charitable read on what you're saying

01:09:11

I think that if it becomes a problem in a church that you have people that are

01:09:16

Advocating and and I'll just put a little finer kind of I Find our point on it because I don't

01:09:24

White supremacy itself has multiple definitions depending on context if you will say that what you're talking about is a genuine hatred for certain minority groups and Like wanting them dead one, you know thinking things like the

01:09:39

Holocaust didn't happen, but it should have I've heard that kind of thing Or that it's you know, these are these are real examples

01:09:46

It's fine to mow down children in the woods with machine guns because the children of Israel were commanded by God to kill the

01:09:52

Canaanites And so the Holocaust is justified. I've heard this stuff. I Think when you start seeing stuff like that happen, then yes pastors do have to address it

01:10:03

But I think pastors are generally going to veer towards if they're a good pastor the needs of their congregation so that's probably why you're not seeing that kind of thing as much but but I but I think

01:10:15

I'm with you in spirit that You know if that becomes a problem in a church that needs to be addressed

01:10:21

All right Caleb says John one question. I have about the turning point memorial is was it a

01:10:27

Christian Nationalist Assembly or a traditional Christian funeral service? I don't know. It's it's I to be frank.

01:10:34

I've never taken the term Christian Nationals for myself. I've And then that's not a badge of honor or anything.

01:10:39

I just never I'm a conservative. I'm a Christian I don't feel like giving up those terms if you want to say paleo conservative, that's fine.

01:10:47

I Think just good old Christian conservatism is fine with me So I don't see any of the

01:10:54

I mean how many of the guys on stage have ever said I am a Christian Nationalist I don't think any So, I know there's guys claiming victory who weren't part of it

01:11:04

Christian nationalism has never been more and maybe that what they mean by that is Christian influence in society and that's all they mean

01:11:09

That's fine. Sure. So that's what you mean If you mean like a hyper niche movement within reform circles, yeah,

01:11:17

I don't think so. Yeah It was you more Calvary Chapel people and like major Christian artists were up there than anyone else

01:11:24

They haven't read the Christian Nationalist sources at all Okay, did you just wake up from a five -year nap,

01:11:32

I don't know if that's for me or someone else I Don't think so I Mean I would like to I've been having a cold forever and I would love a five -year nap

01:11:46

All right. Let's keep going here because I see there's a debate about replacement theology.

01:11:52

We're not gonna get into that I got so much more to share and it's only an hour only the night is young But it's not because I got a little 15 month old and she needs this room.

01:12:02

She sleeps in the other corner. You only see one corner You don't see where she is. So Let me try to get to this stuff quick.

01:12:09

We are going to talk about Just real quick some big Eva stuff if that's okay.

01:12:14

So Oh, I didn't have it queued up so I will queue it up now

01:12:21

Yeah, we're gonna skip through the other I have I had queued up the five moments from the funeral the top five moments We're not we don't time to get into it, unfortunately

01:12:35

Okay, so Let's do this Do we want to start with gospel coalition?

01:12:46

Where do we want to start here? I Think I'll start with with this video.

01:12:53

Okay, this is from Is this the right one hold on Yeah, okay

01:13:02

So this is a video that Lecrae the Christian rap artists, whatever our hip -hop artists put out there

01:13:15

Charlie Kirk was shot dead on the rooftop is the figure of the assassin. I Think he deserved it

01:13:23

The number one lesson the church should have wanted people to get out of this was very simply

01:13:29

This was tragic Wicked and it never should have happened. No one deserves to get killed for expressing their opinion

01:13:37

And unfortunately, I think a lot of people on the left said that but then they said but Donald Trump was accused of treason.

01:13:45

He was impeached twice He had his home raided and then now a young charismatic general from his movement is assassinated they view this as deeper than Toxic rhetoric livelihoods are at stake it seemed like every

01:14:00

Christian was like hey You have to say something about this. You were so vocal about George Floyd.

01:14:06

You're so vocal about all these people Why are you not vocal about Charlie Kirk? You create a company close to being a fascist.

01:14:14

That's all it is. Can you name one thing? I believe that's fascist. Um, you believe that like you are

01:14:19

One of the worst things you could cost my is a match Most people couldn't define it but again words have

01:14:27

Meanings the way that you're provoking people has consequence the ideas that you put out into the public square have consequences

01:14:34

The last tweet I sent out about Charlie Kirk probably in July was basically saying something.

01:14:39

He said was right We haven't really grappled with the goals of political violence I think it's it's to make you say

01:14:48

I have children. I have a family I can't afford to put myself out there that way if nothing else happened

01:14:54

But the image of Charlie Kirk being assassinated the assassin achieved his goal

01:15:00

I do think that the right in some instances was very opportunist the left caused this they're completely to blame for this

01:15:07

I mean they were opportunist out there But very very very polarizing views on Charlie's death on the left and the right people say he's a martyr for the

01:15:16

Christian faith On the opposite side I've heard people cheering for his death saying this is what he deserved with views like this on the sides being the most

01:15:26

Highlighted vantage points. What's a healthy perspective? I'm glad you brought that up because All right.

01:15:34

There you go is the deep end with deep end whatever. That's the podcast So I wanted to play for you.

01:15:40

It's just a trip down memory lane because they're you know Playing the third way thing like there's there's these unreasonable people on the left

01:15:47

There's unreasonable people on the right and here we're sitting just talking about this rationally But if you remember and and I wouldn't expect you to but five years ago

01:15:56

This is what Justin Giboney from the and campaign. This is what he said in the wake of George Floyd's death

01:16:02

You just have to find a way to speak into this moment and not get carried away by the moment

01:16:08

I think that people should speak up white black or whatever. I think people should speak up I think they should say something

01:16:14

I don't think you have to watch a video that's clearly wrong and that you clearly see somebody getting killed and not say anything

01:16:20

At all. That's not what I'm saying So you should speak up you should get involved So if you have a church or is your church giving voice to those people if you have minorities in your church

01:16:30

Are you giving voice to them? Do they feel like they you know, have a say that you're listening to them and hearing them out

01:16:35

How are you treating them? You know when it comes to power matters partnership matters

01:16:41

Have you reached out to a African American church in your community to see how they're doing you?

01:16:46

You may very well know that we have the church is helping churches a challenge where we were asking more financially stable churches to help

01:16:52

You know smaller mainly minority churches get through this kovat 19 crisis

01:16:57

Those are things that you can do but we have to change the conversation okay, that was from a podcast and obviously

01:17:04

I Consolidated and I took just clips where he was saying you have to speak out because he talks about the justice system and all kinds of things but He is very important to him that you needed to do something

01:17:16

It wasn't enough to be silent. You had to speak out and now You see from the video that Advertisements that you just watched it's being brought up by Lecrae as if well

01:17:27

You know, there's this pressure out there like it's unreasonable for people to have this pressure that you need to speak about Charlie's death

01:17:33

Justin Gibney was saying that you needed to you must you and not just speak out you need to also speak out through letting a minority voice speak a black voice speak on the issue of justice, so This was them.

01:17:50

This is you know, the reasonable moderates now But this is what he was saying back then and this is what

01:17:55

Lecrae was doing Lecrae Had a Tweet where he said verbal solidarity is great, but let's put our money where our mouths are

01:18:04

Here is a school in historic black community with black leadership that needs your support So, you know, he expected people to do something.

01:18:11

Here's a an article from I believe the Christian Post In the news conference

01:18:16

Lecrae said that the country needs to see prayer policy programs publicity and protest What we all need all of those pieces in the puzzle

01:18:23

Lecrae said that is a system that has been set up from the inception For black people to fail a lot of people can't tear down a system that we didn't build

01:18:30

So it is important for my brothers and sisters in Christ to use their power and privilege to help tear down These evil infrastructures that hold us back

01:18:37

But create continue by calling for there to be more leaders of color within churches It is one thing to have black friends

01:18:43

But do you have black leaders in your life who can guide you and lead you and inform you on how this should go? When you look around you

01:18:49

I mean it just goes everything's got to be diverse And and he says that those are so that did you tear down the infrastructure of systemic and justice?

01:18:58

Those are the implications of the gospel. The gospel makes us uncomfortable We so basically you're not even a

01:19:05

Christian You don't even have a gospel if you don't do what Lecrae was telling you to do back then He said to Phil Fisher.

01:19:11

This is all after George Floyd's death we should speak up about these unarmed black people getting killed in the streets and Everyone was like hold on brother and it's so you you're not supposed to think no

01:19:23

Hold on brother and now the craze like hold on brother, you know, I have to speak out about Charlie Kirk's death away

01:19:29

They're not even worthy of comparison to be quite honest with you George Floyd was a criminal and he was being he died of a overdose while engaged in a criminal activity

01:19:39

It's not Charlie Kirk was martyred while proclaiming things that were true, including the gospel so I don't buy the comparison, but if you want to do the comparison then

01:19:49

Then let's compare them and I would like to also compare Lecrae's reaction sitting there like oh

01:19:56

People are saying you got to speak out. I mean, you know, what do you think that is that up for grabs?

01:20:01

You we he didn't even want to have a conversation about it in 2020. These people kind of make me sick.

01:20:06

I'll be honest with you so there's there a number of instances like this but not as many as you'd think because most of these big eva types don't seem

01:20:15

To be involved. He said Justin Taylor from gospel coalition He said which way young man, and he's got

01:20:21

Andrew Tate on one side and Charlie Kirk on the other It's actually liked it. I think because it's a good question, but it's coming from Justin Taylor And so Josh abattoir points out

01:20:30

Justin Taylor back in 2021 said this, you know You don't have to give Charlie Kirk more views right and Karen swallow prior says whoa if true

01:20:39

They didn't like Charlie Kirk at all. And now he's holding Charlie Kirk up as some kind of a model model citizen

01:20:46

Charlie Kirk Phil Vischer Phil Vischer Did a whole article about how oh the hatred

01:20:52

It's just so much and so bad and one side hates the other and don't you hate the hate? One group hate those who promote evil the other hates those who promote hate we will arrive at the same place giving ourselves

01:21:00

Permission to hate those whom God loves I've got some thoughts and he does this whole thing and I pointed out

01:21:06

I was like don't flatter yourself Phil. We know you who you had disdain for and here he is saying that Christians in quotations mode

01:21:15

Quotation marks, you know as if you know, these aren't real Christians Christians You mean

01:21:20

Charlie Kirk style fundamentalist with authoritarian leanings? Yeah, okay. So they are they is

01:21:26

Charlie Kirk even a real Christian, you know These people forget what they what they've said over the years what they've contributed to it's kind of sick to be quite honest with you

01:21:35

I noticed the gospel coalition. They put out an article is Charlie Kirk's assassination a turning point

01:21:41

And so I went into this article one of the things that I saw which I thought was amazing

01:21:46

And I did compliment it was Brent McCracken said seeking a compassionate posture towards people struggling with gender dysphoria doesn't mean

01:21:54

Making peace with transgender ideology leftism has long perpetuated bodily autonomy, which favors personal choice above all else

01:21:59

It's advocacy for LGBTQ pride and increasingly extreme support of abortions rights flow from a broader rejection of God's design for sex

01:22:07

But transgender ideology takes this disconnection from reality to a whole new level Kirk's murder.

01:22:13

So Let's see He says trans ideology and the broader ideology from which it stems is rotten fruit and rotten and bears bad fruit

01:22:21

It leads to death in more ways than one Christians should shouldn't be shy about saying so and we should question the wisdom of any political program that embraces such a reality denying deception

01:22:31

Well way to go Brent McCracken. I never thought I'd say that I don't completely agree with one section here about the bodily autonomy thing

01:22:38

I think transgender ideology might have started out that way transgender ideology though Sees gender as fluid and basically as like a social construct almost like there's an authentic self you have but it's found in Conjunction with the interactions you have with other people and so there is a community element to this and then they have to recognize it

01:22:58

So it's not just about bodily autonomy. They don't just want to be able to Do what they want to do. They want to force you to recognize as fact in what what they who they truly are their authentic self, which

01:23:13

So anyway, but that's a minor point of disagreement. I think amen to the broader point He's making here and I thought well what's going on because the gospel coalition has said things in the past that seem to like Just I would say

01:23:27

Take the wind out of the sails they didn't in a muffle criticism of transgenderism in the church and Then protest you put this out there that it was about Brett McCracken The headline is the gospel coalition editor quietly removes graphic homosexual

01:23:39

TV show from his list of favorite things So McCracken's top 20 list of favorite shows in 2021 published in the gospel coalition featured several or a lar

01:23:57

Okay, so there's a movie called I don't even I never heard of this movie the worst person in the world and I Guess he removed it.

01:24:06

Okay so I Don't like what's going on here. What's going on?

01:24:12

Oh white Lotus. Okay on HBO. That was the thing Okay, that guess that was removed. So what's going on here?

01:24:17

That's what I want to know What happened? Why is why are things being quietly edited here?

01:24:24

That's without no journalistic. Like this has been edited. Hmm So if that's true, that's interesting because that's the same author of the what

01:24:34

I just read So does that mean that they're turning over a new leaf? Well again, they've never admitted or repented or said they were wrong on any of this

01:24:41

So I don't know what to make of it I'm positive about it, but I'm not willing to trust them

01:24:47

I this could be they're seeing the winds are shifting and they just need to change their position But does that mean that they have had a change of heart?

01:24:56

I do not know. I do not know But there you go the gospel coalition. Okay, last but not least.

01:25:02

I think this is the last thing We're gonna talk about Michael Foster's crusade in the

01:25:07

PCA, that's right Michael Foster it has joined the PCA and he's basically decided

01:25:13

I'm going to put the spotlight on churches They're not in keeping with PCA doctrine. Here's an example of one of them here take two

01:25:20

All right All right, let's try let's all right. Well, hey

01:25:27

Look good. Good morning, everyone My name is Matt and I serve as one of the pastors here and the ladies standing before you this morning

01:25:34

Are our new members to our board of women? these Individuals were nominated by you our congregation around Around the fall of last year and they have gone through a rigorous training process

01:25:50

Where they've learned more about our doctrine The the essentials of the Christian faith and and what it is to serve and lead in Christ Church Our our board of women members go through the same training as our as our elders and our deacons and that's intentional because We believe that God has equipped all of our congregation men and women to bless the church

01:26:13

And so these ladies bring an immense set of gifts and skills and rich Testimonies and lives of faith to bless our church family and our board of women you can see from the back of the worship guide that they serve on all of the committee all the committees that are elders and Deacons serve on and they add a voice and a perspective and they lend their gifts to make this church

01:26:37

As good as it can be and so I'm gonna just say I'm just gonna stop it there for the sake of time

01:26:46

Mike I don't have a like this is not a comprehensive list of all the churches that Michael has exposed

01:26:53

But I'm gonna just take you through a few of them that was one video, okay of which there are many

01:27:01

But here's Michael Foster plastic pastor Derek Radney and women's

01:27:09

Leadership Council, and then he posts, you know screenshot and then Brookhaven Presbyterian Church And he posts their deacons

01:27:15

They have women deacons and in the PCA women deacons is not like deaconess in a Baptist Circle.

01:27:21

They a Deacon actually has In a PCA Church from what

01:27:27

I understand my PCA friends have told me this they have actual authority Not just it's not just a servant role

01:27:33

Then you have the Board of Women from a clean Presbyterian and he goes Joshua Torre Christ Church in San Antonio this it goes on and on and on I don't even have time

01:27:43

I'm just showing you on and on my I don't know where Michael got these He's must have been storing all of this stuff up, but it's it's like an it's like a pandemic

01:27:52

It's like it's everywhere and he says look you want to help me with this go to the 88

01:27:58

Presbyteries click on this the website go to the PCA AC org and Then look at their leadership staff or officers and find out if there's women there if you want to help

01:28:07

Michael Foster then send it to him And he wrote an article about dealing with shepherdesses in the PCA.

01:28:13

That's another one Some of these churches have shepherdesses. I I kid you not I saw one pastor trying to make the case

01:28:20

That a shepherd. Oh, what was he doing? What verse was it now? I forgot Let me see if I could find it real quick.

01:28:29

I think was Rachel He uses Rachel as an example of a shepherdess because she had an actual sheep Right. It's like how does that?

01:28:36

translate into so He says there are things you can do in the

01:28:41

PCA environment obviously The leadership roles are for men and the Bible designates the role of a an elder

01:28:50

For a man the role of a deacon is debated in some circles because some people say there's there's a deaconess or at least a woman servant kind Of position whether you believe that or not

01:29:01

There the deacons themselves though do not at least I'm talking about the biblical office of a deacon they are servants

01:29:08

They are meant to carry out Tasks and the elders are there for the spiritual leadership.

01:29:14

So The problem in some of these circles is these words are used in different senses you have shepherdesses you have deacons you have

01:29:22

Pastoral staff that are women in these churches that are behaving in ways that would lend you to think that they actually are offering up spiritual leadership in violation, so He he gives some of the ways that this can be

01:29:38

On his sub stack, which is what is it? This is foster is the sub stack This is foster calm.

01:29:44

He gives some of the ways that the PCA trial Trials can work and all that. What I would just say is this so I got to end the podcast

01:29:52

If you're in the PCA, you need to be following Michael Foster This is a moment for clearing house and if the house is cleared

01:29:59

I think the PCA has a shot But you have to have people like Michael doing this sort of thing and no one's been willing to do it

01:30:06

That's part of the problem the SPC I've seen over the years more of a

01:30:13

I I'd say resources for this kind of thing I've seen more enthusiasm for this kind of thing, even though it's been kind of a it hasn't won the day

01:30:22

But there's still people trying to do this. The PCA hasn't really had this until now from what I know So Michael Foster's bringing attention very public attention and some of these pastors are mad about it

01:30:33

And he's even posting some of their letters to him So if you're in the PCA check out

01:30:38

Michael Foster, that is the podcast for tonight My baby's got to go to bed. So I'm gonna take a few questions and then we will end it

01:30:47

Not getting into replacement theology If Jesus walked on water

01:30:54

Does he swim? on land Okay, I think that's a poor attempt at humor. Sorry Jorba.

01:31:00

I I don't I don't understand why I Don't get it.

01:31:05

All right, Kim traveler. Oh, she's responding to cosmic tree. Okay There's like a conversation in the chat that I'm not part of so I'm gonna stay out of it.

01:31:12

All right guys Thank you. Thank you for being here for the podcast. I will see some of you at the men's retreats Too late to sign up now sign sign up is closed, but we're gonna be up there for a few days

01:31:23

I did cue a podcast for I think Thursday, but I don't know if I'll have time for another one

01:31:28

So you may be getting what you're gonna get You can go to my website John Harris media .com

01:31:35

Or John Harris podcast calm take you to the same place and you can see where I'm gonna be In the Jesus in politics conference is coming up in October I'm gonna be down in Houston, Texas in October.

01:31:44

Look forward to seeing you there and I Think that's it.