July 29, 2025 Show with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III on “The Dangers of Right-Wing Ecumenism in the Culture Wars”

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July 30, 2025

July 29, 2025 Dr. JOSEPH C. MORECRAFT III,founding pastor of Heritage Presby-terian Church of Cumming, GA, &author of a number of books, amongthem the 8-volume commentary seton the Westminster Larger Catechismtitled, “Authentic Christianity”, whowill address: “HOW DEEP SHOULD OUR ALLIAN-CES AS CHRISTIANS BE WITH THOSEWHO DENY the TRUE GOSPEL & theDANGERS of RIGHT-WING ECUMEN-ISM in […]

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.
00:58: And now here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,
01:09: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:14: Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 29th day of July 2025.
01:30: Before I introduce to you my distinguished guest for today and our topic,
01:36: I just want to remind you all that this Friday I am having a special tribute program to the late
01:45: Dr. John MacArthur, and my guests will be Phil Johnson, the executive director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry.
01:54: Grace to you. Also joining us will be Dr. Doug McMasters, pastor of New Hyde Park Baptist Church on Long Island, who was the director of pastoral correspondence for John MacArthur's Media Ministry.
02:11: Grace to you. And I just found out today that my old friend
02:17: Jim Capo, the former pastor of the Massapequa Church of God on Long Island, will be joining us as my co -host that day.
02:26: That's this Friday, August 1st, as we pay tribute to Dr. MacArthur. Jim was my co -host when
02:34: I interviewed John MacArthur in 2007, and he was a frequent co -host with me when
02:42: I was broadcasting the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program out of WNYG, 1440 a .m.
02:50: in Babylon, Long Island, and I'm so thrilled that Jim is able to join me for the first time in a long time as my co -host this
03:01: Friday. So please mark your calendars for Friday, August 1st, for our tribute in memory of the late
03:07: John MacArthur. But today I have a wonderful brother joining us, one of my favorite guests to interview, and I know from the responses
03:20: I have received over the years from my audience that he has become a favorite guest of many who listen to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and that is
03:31: Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, founding pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and author of a number of books, among them the eight -volume commentary set on the
03:45: Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity. And today,
03:51: Dr. Moorcraft will be addressing how deep should our alliances as Christians be with those who deny the true gospel and the dangers of right -wing ecumenism in the culture wars.
04:06: And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Joseph C.
04:12: Moorcraft III. I always enjoy being with you, Chris. Amen, and it's always a joy having you.
04:19: And tell our listeners something about the Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.
04:27: Heritage Presbyterian Church is just outside the northern limits of metropolitan
04:33: Atlanta. It is in one of the fastest -growing counties in the United States, Forsyth County.
04:40: County season is coming. We have been there for five, six, seven years, and we are a small congregation and a member of the
04:50: Reformed Presbyterian Church, Hanover Presbytery. Let me tell you something about Hanover Presbytery.
04:56: There has been a Hanover Presbytery in the United States since before the
05:02: United States. Hanover Presbytery was one of the greatest presbyteries in the colonial period, starting churches and presbyteries all over the
05:16: Old West, which was Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, all over the place.
05:24: And then when the denomination of which it was a part became liberal, they dropped the name in the 1980s.
05:33: And in the 1990s, a group of conservative presbyterian preachers took the name up and started
05:40: Hanover Presbytery again. We have about 20 churches from coast to coast, and our church heritage is committed to the
05:53: Westminster Confession of Faith and larger and shorter catechisms as our doctoral statement.
05:59: We are committed to the mission of the church, which is the Great Commission, and we have missionaries that we support, one in Brazil, who is named
06:10: Frank Dutto, who is translating my written stuff into Portuguese, the national language of Brazil.
06:18: And now he's doing something amazing. He's taking my audio sermons and recording them in audio by AI, so it's my voice preaching in Portuguese.
06:35: And it's amazing what we can do. AI is dangerous, but it can also be used in the advance of the kingdom of God.
06:44: We also send mission groups south of the border to preach to cities among these migrants, because that is such a critical issue today.
06:57: It amounts to an invasion of the United States. The Democrats and the
07:02: Republicans don't have any real solution, so we know the solution is only to be found in the preaching of the gospel.
07:10: So we send teams to Mexico, we send teams to Cuba, about five men in each team, and every one of the men just happened to be
07:20: Reformed Baptists, and they are extremely good preachers.
07:27: And our church has about 85 members. We have a great many young adults in their early 30s on down, and we have of every age, but these young adults are superior, and they believe in having babies.
07:50: So our church just continues to grow, both by evangelism and by the written word, and by your show, and by these people having little babies.
08:03: It's interesting how young people today who are named their babies today. You know,
08:09: Presbyterians baptize infants of Christians, so I had two little six -month -old babies
08:15: I baptized the other day, they're fathers or brothers, and one baby had a normal name, and the other name was
08:24: Maximilian Finnegan Ford. So I presume they're going to call him
08:35: Max. But anyway, so we praise the Lord that our people come from everywhere.
08:41: We have people that drive all the way from Knoxville, Tennessee, which is three hours away, and we have a morning service, we have lunch every
08:54: Sunday, because that's the only time some of those people ever see each other. We use the printed word, and we praise the
09:04: Lord for the way it continues to grow. Tom Hanks Very cool.
09:10: I'm very excited about that. Well, I want to let our listeners know about three major websites that you should write down to take advantage and benefit from Dr.
09:28: Moorcraft and his preaching, teaching, and writing. First of all, the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
09:39: heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, and also the website to purchase his eight -volume commentary on the
09:49: Westminster larger catechism, Authentic Christianity, is westminstercommentary .com,
09:58: westminstercommentary .com. And last but not least, for any of Dr.
10:06: Moorcraft's writings, you can go to comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity .com.
10:16: Well, if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Moorcraft, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
10:25: chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us a first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
10:31: Dr. Moorcraft, it seems obvious that Christians, when we are in a minority and being
10:42: Reformed makes us even more of a minority, Christians have a tendency to panic sometimes and get overly excited when folks want to join us and be allies with us in the culture wars.
11:02: And very often you will see in the media Christians having close partnerships with Mormons like Glenn Beck, and you'll even see frequently on Fox News, one of the news outlets that many
11:21: Christians go to as their exclusive source for news, a growing number of openly homosexual people who happen to be conservative fiscally and conservative on other issues.
11:37: They may even be opposed to some of the garbage that people that have their own sexual desires are producing for little children.
11:55: And there are things within the LGBTQ community and the gay rights activist groups that they are even opposed to.
12:07: But nonetheless, these folks, many of them are openly homosexual.
12:12: Some of them even quote, quote, married to somebody of the same gender, like David Rubin, who has adopted children.
12:23: So, it's of great concern to me and I know to you. And how deep can we have alliances with people like that?
12:32: I know that every time we go into a voting booth, we're having some kind of an alliance with people who vote the same way we do, to elect people in political office.
12:44: But how deep can we go? That is, as you said in your introduction, one of the burning issues of the 21st century.
12:56: And there are three or four different kinds of ecumenism.
13:04: That is, working with people that are unbelievers or share heretical doctrines.
13:12: But before I explain what they are, there's a good kind of ecumenism, and we're doing it right now.
13:19: Whenever you have a reformed Presbyterian on your show and you're a reformed Baptist, that is biblical ecumenism.
13:28: Because we are based on the same truth. But ecumenism is a form of sin that has plagued the church for thousands of years.
13:40: And that sin is synthesis. That is, seeking to blend
13:46: Christianity with some other religious or philosophical or moral way of thinking.
13:53: And it goes all the way back to Jacob. God would rather have
14:01: Israel and the children of Israel be slaves in Egypt than He would having them commit synthesis with the
14:12: Canaanites. That's how serious God takes it. And then it goes on through history.
14:24: What we believe presupposes two things that causes us to be very critical of unbiblical forms of ecumenism.
14:36: And that is, we believe there is a divinely revealed, non -negotiable truth, and there are moral absolutes from God by which all men, their actions are to be judged.
14:54: We are never to compromise or negotiate either the truth nor the morality revealed by God in the
15:02: Holy Scripture. The truth is what
15:08: God has revealed to us in Christ and in the Bible. And the
15:13: Bible, you know, Pilate asked Jesus when he was trying him, he said, what is truth?
15:21: And the answer that I give to that question is God's opinion of the thing.
15:28: Whatever God's opinion of the thing is, that is the truth, no matter what anybody else thinks about it. There is no truth outside of the revelation of God's will contained in Holy Scripture.
15:41: One time I was talking to the former Speaker of the House of the United States Congress, Nick Gingrich, allegedly a conservative.
15:51: And he said to me, he said, there is no source of truth outside the universe.
16:00: Well, now that is as atheistic as you can get. Because there's only one being outside the universe, and that is the living
16:08: God. And what he said in so many words is that man is the source of truth, man's reason or man's experience, and therefore it can be compromised.
16:24: It can be changed. It can be negotiated. It's not something that's absolute and infallible.
16:32: But that's not what Christians believe. And in order to practice an unbiblical form of ecumenism, which
16:40: I'll explain after a while, in order to practice an unbiblical form of ecumenism like we're doing in our culture today, we have to give up on the divine revelation of truth and say the truth does not matter.
16:54: That the Word of God, which is the written truth of God, does not matter.
17:00: That Jesus Christ, who is the living truth of God, does not matter. Those are common opinions of men.
17:10: And then when it comes to ethics and standing for this or that and calling this right or wrong, there are no moral absolutes.
17:22: There is no standard, perfect, infallible standard of morality, according to these people, by which we can criticize and judge every human being, every human institution, and all of man's actions.
17:38: Right is what God says is right in the Bible. Wrong is what
17:43: God says is wrong in the Bible, no matter what anybody else in the world believes. And truth is what
17:50: God says is true, not what man says is true. So in order to practice an unbiblical form of humanism, even if you profess differently in your mouth, you have to contradict those two basic pillars upon which
18:07: Christianity rests. You have to say truth is negotiable. There are no moral absolutes.
18:16: We can compromise on them pragmatically in order to get things done that we want done.
18:24: Now, there are several kinds of humanism. That is,
18:30: Christians working or blending in or cooperating with or coalescing with non -Christians or heretics or other religions.
18:44: There is one good guy, as I said, and that is where brothers who share the same truth, the same moral standards, but may be of different denominations can work together without compromising the truth.
18:58: That's fairly biblical. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But in the 20th century,
19:07: I went to a liberal seminary, Columbia Theological Seminary in Decatur, Georgia.
19:14: It wasn't in the PCA. And I went to this liberal seminary.
19:22: And one of the goals of theological liberals is to get all the denominations to work together, hopefully to join each other, so that there's one great world council of churches or United States Council of Churches, but some way to get all the various denominations to get together, to work together, to believe the same thing, stand for the same thing, that when the
19:52: Bible talks about unity, that's what liberals think it means, organizational unity of churches that disagree in theology and ethics.
20:04: That is not what unity means in the Bible. Unity is something only the
20:11: Holy Spirit can produce. It is first and foremost a spiritual thing.
20:19: And it is based upon biblical revelation. So the first kind of non -biblical ecumenism that you've had in the last century, particularly where it largely began, was liberal ecumenism of churches trying every way they can to identify with each other, be one organizationally, be one in all of their various opinions.
20:55: And as a result, truth is always diluted, and ethics are always situational.
21:05: Now, when I went to seminary, I was taught situational ethics were the big thing.
21:12: That is, that there's no absolute standard, but that it all depends upon the situation as to whether something is right or wrong.
21:25: And then throughout the 20th century, and more importantly, in the late 20th century and early 21st century, there's been this ecumenism of trying to narrow the gap between evangelicalism and Roman Catholicism.
21:48: You saw that in all kinds of ways. You saw that in the federal vision movement.
21:56: You see it in many places today where evangelicals want to state their truth in such a way that a
22:08: Roman Catholic would agree with them, and they want to narrow the gap between Rome and Well, I guarantee you, if the gap between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism narrows, it's not the
22:24: Catholics that move. The Protestants are always going to have to compromise.
22:31: The Catholics won't. They can't. And their Council of Trinit, they believe their doctrines, as they worked out, are infallible, unchangeable, and infallible.
22:43: People think that when they had a second Vatican Council, and the church was liberalized in some things, it was just cosmetic.
22:53: It was just on the surface. Rome has not changed in its basic doctrines.
22:59: Popes have come and gone, but the basic doctrines and ethics of Roman Catholicism hasn't changed.
23:07: So if Protestants and Roman Catholics are going to get together, worship together, work together, confess the faith together, in an unbiblical ecumenism, it's the
23:27: Protestants that have got to sell out the historic Christian faith.
23:33: That's right. And that is the third kind of ecumenism that we see today, more than ever.
23:42: And that is a right -wing ecumenism.
23:49: That is, things have gotten so dark in the
23:55: United States, and evangelicals who do not have a victory -oriented view of the future, or who do not have a strong confidence in the sovereignty and omnipotence and faithful of God, have panicked.
24:15: And now if we're going to survive as Christians, they would say, we have got to give in to some of our—give up some of our most cherished traditional
24:28: Orthodox doctrines, in order to have more numbers, so we can have a bigger army to stand against, the army of Satan that is perverting the
24:41: United States. And we see this all over the place now.
24:50: Not just the liberals practicing ecumenism, or evangelicals, Roman Catholics.
24:57: It's evangelicals out of fear and panic, wanting more numbers, thinking that the more numbers you have to fight with, the enemy, the better it's going to be for the evangelicals.
25:19: Well, I can tell you one person that disagreed with that heart and soul, and that was Joshua. Joshua, all he needed was 300 people.
25:29: I mean, excuse me, Gideon, was Gideon. And he had all kinds of men, but he narrowed them down to 300.
25:39: And that's all it took. So you see, we already have the number outnumbered.
25:46: Christians do not think theologically. We have the only power in the universe, and that is the living
25:55: God. And we have the sword of the Spirit. We have the power of the
26:03: Holy Spirit. We have the power of the Word of God. We have the Lordship of Christ. We've got the sovereignty of Almighty God.
26:13: We've got history on our side. We've got providence on our side. But we need some more numbers.
26:23: So let's call in people that would disagree with us on most things, or would agree with us on some things, and let's include them in our army, because otherwise we're going to be defeated.
26:41: Well, if we get defeated, that's not going to be the reason, but I don't think we're going to be defeated. But anyway, so you go through history, and you see wherever the church has put its confidence in princes, and has sought to depend on numbers, and made alliances with people like Egypt and other pagan nations, it has always lost.
27:22: Amen. Like I said just a minute ago, God hates ecumenism or synthesis so much that He would rather His people be slaves in Egypt than compromising with the
27:45: Canaanites in Palestine. Amen. Our people had learned that.
27:52: Now, there is such a thing, I think, as common grace.
27:58: That is, that God restrains evil, even in the unregenerate, without that restraint having a sanctifying effect upon evil people.
28:09: The reason that all unbelievers are not child's men is because of the restraint of Almighty God, keeping them from being as evil as they could possibly be, and causing the world to be a hell for the church to live in.
28:35: So that, also, God can cause the unregenerate to produce some true things in books or things like that, without sanctifying them.
28:55: Even an unbeliever can have a moment of truth because of the sovereign providence of Almighty God. He can cause an unbeliever to contradict himself in order to make a fool out of him and yet use him in the advance of his purposes on this earth.
29:22: So there are, I'll give you an example. 1986,
29:28: I ran for the United States Congress. I determined before I ran for Congress that I would not hold one political view nor have one strategy in my campaign that I could not root and ground in the
29:52: Word of God from beginning to end. And everybody knew that, of course.
30:01: That's why all the newspapers hated me and would always attack me morning, noon, and night.
30:10: But there was an atheist woman who lived in our community. And I didn't know her for a while.
30:20: I didn't know what she was doing. She was raising money for me. She was giving out tract.
30:28: And then I found out that this lady was an atheist, so I go to her. And I said,
30:35: Miss So -and -so, I want to thank you for what you're doing, but let me ask you a question. Why are you an atheist trying to get me, a
30:48: Calvinistic Christian, to get elected to the United States Congress?
30:57: She said, because the liberals are stealing me blind and I know you would preserve my will.
31:06: So, I mean, if somebody like that wants to vote for me, they know I'm not going to compromise.
31:13: They know what I stand for. And therefore, the problem is not mine, it's theirs.
31:22: I'm not going to go seek the support of atheistic or Catholic organizations or dominant dominations or liberal denominations.
31:34: But if any of those people want to vote for me, that's their problem. We have to get our first commercial break and pick up where you left off when we return.
31:45: And once again, if anybody wants to join us with your own question, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.
31:53: Don't go away. We're going to be right back. James White here of Alpha Omega Ministries announcing that this
32:10: September, I'm heading out to Pennsylvania to speak at two events that my longtime friend
32:16: Chris Arnson has lined up for me. On Thursday, September 18th at 11 a .m.,
32:21: I'm speaking to men in ministry leadership at Chris's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon at Church of the
32:29: Living Christ in Loisville. Then on Sunday, September 21st at 1 30 p .m.,
32:35: I'm speaking at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle on the theme, Can We Trust the
32:40: Bible is the Authentic and Inherent Word of God? I hope you can join Chris and me for both events.
32:46: For more details on the Free Pastor's Luncheon, visit ironsharpensironradio .com.
32:52: That's ironsharpensironradio .com. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, visit trbccarlisle .org.
33:03: That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, I'll see you in September in Pennsylvania for these exciting events.
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39:49: I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
39:55: Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.
40:04: At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune
40:19: God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.
40:28: In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every
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40:41: That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.
40:48: Welcome back, and to remind you, if you just tuned us in, we have as our guest today
40:55: Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, and we are discussing the dangers of right -wing ecumenism during the culture wars.
41:07: And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
41:12: Always give us your first name, at least. City and state and country of residence. One thing that I wanted to see if I could get you to clarify,
41:27: I very much enjoy watching on television Glenn Beck.
41:32: I agree with many things that he says and very rarely disagree with him, but I draw the line with Glenn Beck when he poses himself as a
41:47: Christian, and knowing that he is a Mormon, he is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day
41:52: Saints, and back in 2010, he had an event in Washington, D .C.,
42:04: and right in front of the Lincoln Memorial, I believe it was called
42:09: Restoring Honor, and he made it a point to be very clear that that was not a political rally.
42:18: It was a spiritual gathering, and he was making comments in his speech that appeared to go right over the head of the thousands of Christians that were there, getting a roarous applause.
42:39: There were over 100 ,000 people that gathered there, but he was saying things such as they were standing on the land where Jesus Christ once walked.
42:52: I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the manuscript of his speech in front of me, but things like that that were clearly
43:00: Mormon ideas. But I also saw not long ago a much more recent podcast where Glenn Beck had an old friend of mine on his program,
43:15: Max Lucado, who is the pastor, or was at least the pastor of Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, Texas, and they were talking to each other as only
43:35: Christians who are truly brothers in Christ should speak to one another. They were calling each other brethren or brother, and Glenn Beck asked
43:49: Max Lucado to pray during their podcast.
43:56: So this is where I draw the line, and I would have had little problem with Glenn Beck having a political rally, and some might think, well, you're a
44:06: Christian. You should be more aggressively in agreement for having a spiritual gathering.
44:14: Well, not with a Mormon, but am I making sense? I don't agree with you entirely.
44:23: God, as I said, God can give even an unbeliever a moment of truth by his providence, and can enlist a person, even an unbeliever, to accomplish his purposes without saving him and without having any sanctifying effect for him.
44:41: There's no way that Mormons can be Christians. They're anti -Christians. They don't believe the Trinity. They don't believe that Jesus Christ is the
44:49: Son of God. They don't believe that salvation is by grace through faith. God does give
44:57: Beck some information that we as Christians could use, but I would never try to enlist
45:05: Beck in any movement that I was trying to establish as a fellow
45:12: Christian, and I would not want to be identified with him as a
45:19: Christian because I believe he's not. And so it's these types of things.
45:25: There is a group of young men who are influenced by Doug Wilson, and they are also,
45:37: I think, a little influenced by Rush Diddy, which is not bad, but they're extreme.
45:44: They're racist. They're very extreme on what they say about family and about various other things, and they will enlist their comfortless people who believe terrible things if those people believe one thing like, for instance, there's one young Anglican who has been very critical of the
46:07: Anglican church, and I agree with all of his criticism, but what he believes is worse than Anglicanism, as far as his doctrine is concerned.
46:21: It's worse than Roman Catholicism, but because he believes in Christian nationalism and Christianizing America, they don't know what that means.
46:35: These other young guys who are Christian nationalists, they have him speak at his conferences.
46:42: They consider him as a comrade -in -army, and that confuses people.
46:49: He is not a comrade -in -arm. He does not believe the things we believe, and his ultimate goals for America are not the same goals that we have or that God tells us to have in the
47:03: Bible. So there are a lot of these conferences now where they are, in order to draw crowds—let's put it that way—in order to draw crowds and to build up their celebrity and raise money, they get some speakers that are celebrities that have been wrong in their theology, and we see that more and more.
47:35: And that is one of the worst things we could do is to let the world think that they're our brother, so to speak, and our comrade -in -arms.
47:45: It confuses people. Well, hey, if these people agree with the people that we trust with a reformed faith, they must be good, so let's go out and buy their books and get them to come to their conference.
47:58: And then what do you have? You have an evil influence. You have coming into your conferences and causing the truth to be prostituted.
48:11: So this is happening more and more among people who claim to be Christians, even, and claim to be wanting to Christianize America, but they're bringing in our enemies.
48:23: Now, as I say, you can learn from even non -Christians, but you don't want to enlist them on your side.
48:30: That's like enlisting to fight in the Jewish army. You don't want to do it.
48:38: If you can use unbelief, things that God has taught unbelievers, without compromising your faith, that's okay.
48:47: I'll give you another example. I, one time, which is really funny and amazing, one time
48:55: I was invited to speak at a big dinner of hundreds of people in Chattanooga for the
49:05: Chattanooga Methodic Lodge. Now, I believe Methodic Lodges are evil.
49:13: I think it's sinful for a Christian to be a member of a Methodic Lodge. Yeah, John Otis wrote an excellent book on that.
49:22: Great book on that. By the way, he's going to be enlisting me to our house. Oh, wow. The Methodic Lodge is no friend of ours.
49:36: So, because I was running for Congress, they asked me if I would speak to these several hundred people.
49:41: I had to really pray or ask me about it. And I said, well, I said to myself, well,
49:49: I'm not going to waste this opportunity by talking about politics. I'm going to go to this
49:56: Methodic Lodge, and I'm going to preach on the Lordship of Christ over all of life. So, I go to this big dinner, hundreds of people in front of the
50:06: Methodic Lodge, and I preached just as if I was preaching in my home church on the
50:15: Lordship of Christ over all of life. And when
50:21: I finished, these masons all stood up and cheered. Now, they had no idea.
50:28: They had no idea of the difference between us, because most people in the
50:33: South, most men join the Methodic Lodge so they can run with bankers and people of power, and most of them have no idea what they believe.
50:45: So, without compromising the faith, I preached on the
50:51: Lordship of Christ, but I would never try to enlist a mason. In fact, the denomination of which
50:59: I'm a part, an elder, a preacher, cannot be a mason.
51:05: In fact, he cannot be a mason, be a member of any of our churches. So, there's things like that.
51:14: I'll never forget what Dr. Drake Bonson said one time. Drake Bonson. He's the guy that wrote the great book on the law of God and on the details of the law of God.
51:27: And he came to my church one time and preached, and we had all these young seminarians who almost worshipped the ground he walked on coming from everywhere.
51:38: And they looked upon him as Mr. Theotery. So, he gets up in the pulpit and he says,
51:44: Christian morality needs something else along with the law of God contained in Scripture.
51:56: Well, you could have heard a gasp go through the whole congregation.
52:02: What in the world is Bonson saying? We need something more than the law of God? And Bonson said, what you need is wisdom.
52:13: You have to have wisdom from God to know how to interpret, to know how to apply it.
52:21: And, oh, was he ever right. So, we have a lot of knowledgeable young men and women out there, but we have a lot that do not have wisdom.
52:34: They're not afraid to compromise with people of other religions and other philosophies and other ways of life.
52:51: And if you want to finish your thought, it has to be brief because I have to go to the midway break.
53:01: I'll go ahead. I'll go back. Okay. And yeah, I wanted to ask you something about Greg Bonson as well, because it fits right in with our conversation about ecumenism with Catholics.
53:14: Because there is a new breed. It's not that new, but there were those that claimed to be the true heirs of Bonson's theology after he went home to be with the
53:28: Lord, who were ecumenists with Rome, and they were trying to claim that Dr.
53:36: Bonson himself would have agreed with them. But we'll talk about that when we come back.
53:43: And if you want to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.
53:49: We'll be right back. I'm Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven, an
54:01: Orthodox Presbyterian church in Comac, Long Island. I hold the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program hosted by my long -time friend and brother,
54:11: Chris Arnson, in the highest esteem, and I'm thrilled that you're listening today. I'm also delighted that Iron Sharpens Iron is partnering with one of my favorite resources for Reformed Christian literature for decades now,
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55:53: It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
55:59: Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
56:08: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.
56:18: One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,
56:25: Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they're one of the program's largest financial supporters.
56:34: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
56:40: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. And Dr.
56:46: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
56:51: Hanover Presbytery built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
57:01: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
57:12: Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
57:18: For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
57:25: That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831.
57:31: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them
57:37: Joe Reilly, an Orange Harpins Iron radio listener, and a toy in County Kildare, Arlington, send you.
57:54: I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
58:00: I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
58:06: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
58:13: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
58:30: Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
58:37: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.
58:47: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
58:53: That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.
59:02: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
59:16: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.
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01:01:21: Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the
01:01:30: Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions.
01:01:39: While always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith, I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
01:01:51: I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised
01:01:58: Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
01:02:07: I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
01:02:12: Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
01:02:21: I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com
01:02:28: where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Hello, my name is
01:02:36: Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com
01:02:43: website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
01:02:51: Apple's iTunes app by typing ironsharpensironradio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.
01:03:01: Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.
01:03:07: Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.
01:03:17: Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the
01:03:23: Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com
01:03:29: podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed
01:03:36: Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith, as well as seasoned believers. From Keech's Catechism and the
01:03:42: Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie Podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
01:03:51: And finally, if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689
01:03:56: London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York.
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01:08:45: Before I return to my conversation with Joe Moorcraft, I have some important reminders.
01:08:53: If you really love this show, folks, and you don't want it to go off the air, I'm asking you, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,
01:09:01: click support, then click click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.
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01:09:45: I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.
01:09:53: Folks, the giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio plummeted ever since those horrible unconstitutional mandates that the local and federal government placed upon the citizens of this country during the
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01:10:22: I'm assuming, seriously harmed financially from these unconstitutional mandates.
01:10:28: That's the only conclusion I can draw because the giving to us plummeted, and it coincided with the
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01:10:43: Please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
01:10:48: And as urgently as we need your financial help, never give your own church less money than you normally give to your church on the
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01:11:05: But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, and you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and even trivial purposes, well, please share some of that money with us so that we can continue to exist.
01:11:20: Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Last but not least, if you're not a member of a
01:11:28: Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, I have extensive lists spanning the entire globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in our audience all over the planet
01:11:44: Earth find churches that are biblically faithful, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live.
01:11:50: And if you are in that predicament of not being a member of a biblically faithful church home and you're not sure where to find one wherever you live, well, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:12:01: and put, I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Dr.
01:12:06: Joseph C. Moorcraft III, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
01:12:17: As I was saying before the break, after Dr. Greg Bonson went home to be with the
01:12:25: Lord, there seemed to be a movement of folks primarily identifying themselves as theonomous, but I know a very different brand of theonomous than you would espouse and identify yourself with, who were a lot more warm and comfortable with ecumenism, with Roman Catholics, and they proclaimed with great certainty that Dr.
01:12:59: Greg Bonson would have done the same. Now, from what you know of him, is that at all in any way, shape or form true?
01:13:05: Let me recommend to your people on sermonaudio .com, an hour and a half lecture
01:13:11: I gave on Bonson called The Life and Theology of Greg Bonson.
01:13:17: Very personal. It was preached at an
01:13:22: Orthodox Christian church in Southern California at a Bonson conference, and you can find it easily on YouTube.
01:13:33: No, here's the great thing. One of the primary doctrines that separate
01:13:43: Protestantism, most particularly from faith, from Roman Catholicism, is justification by faith in Christ alone.
01:13:56: That was the fledgehammer in Luther's hand that began the
01:14:01: Protestant Reformation. It is a doctrine that Rome says in its
01:14:09: Council of Trent, if you believe that doctrine, you will go to hell.
01:14:14: You will be anathematized. And one time, Wayne Rogers was looking through some old magazines of ours, of Council of Caledon, and Becky was, she was looking through it too.
01:14:29: And she found this tape about Bonson years ago.
01:14:35: I mean, we'd totally forgotten about it. And it was Bonson ripping apart the
01:14:41: Roman Catholic's understanding of justification by faith, ripping apart federal vision understanding of justification by faith, and upholding all the jobs and titles of the
01:14:54: Protestant view of justification. Secondly, there was a man back in the late 20th century named
01:15:06: Shepard, who taught at Westminster Seminary.
01:15:12: Norman Shepard. Norman Shepard. And he told us at first, because he was emphasizing the law of God in a way that we thought, meaning we, the theonomist,
01:15:29: Bonson, myself, etc., that we thought he was really defending the law of God in a seminary that had become weak on the law of God.
01:15:40: So we thought at first that he was standing with us.
01:15:46: If you could look back in those days, you'd not only see Bonson say some good things about Shepard, but even me saying some good things about Shepard.
01:15:56: But then Bonson died. And Bonson did not see how things developed with Shepard, most particularly in terms of federal vision.
01:16:08: And he did not see that Shepard was really a legal agent, a theological legalist who believed in justification by faithfulness to law, as well as many other things.
01:16:21: So Bonson had no, was not afraid at all to criticize
01:16:32: Rome and to stand against Rome. And had he survived and seen the federal vision, he would have stood against their understanding of Rome, because federal vision's view was to narrow the gap between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.
01:16:50: R .C. Spowell wrote a great book on that. No, R .C. was, particularly later in his life, was influenced by Bonson.
01:16:59: And he wrote a great article, a great book, saying why
01:17:04: Rome and Protestantism should not get together. So anybody that says that Bonson was weak toward Rome has not really read much of Bonson.
01:17:23: People around him that loved him passed off Bonson's form of theonomy and confessed after he died.
01:17:36: They didn't have the courage to face him while he was alive and disagree with him. But people like Jim Jordan, and Ray Sutton, after he died, they came out against theonomy and started recommending people join the
01:17:55: Greek Orthodox Church. And one of those men, Ray Sutton, is a bishop in the
01:18:02: Episcopal Church. And I saw a photograph of him kneeling and kissing the of the
01:18:07: Pope. So Bonson is clean.
01:18:15: He's clear. He wasn't a compromiser. And there was a couple of other things that I wanted to bring out about practical, everyday things that we've got to be careful not to compromise on.
01:18:29: Dave Rubin is likable. Dave Rubin is one of the leading political conservatives on the
01:18:43: Internet. And as far as I'm concerned, Dave Rubin is an enemy of the
01:18:50: Christian faith and an enemy of Christ, an extremely dangerous one.
01:18:57: People are always recommending Dave Rubin. I do not ever recommend him at all because he is a pervert.
01:19:05: He is a homosexual. That, first of all, makes him dangerous. What makes him even more dangerous is that he's adopted children and he talks about the importance of the family.
01:19:17: So I know Christian conservatives love Dave Rubin. And they love him because he has such an emphasis on the
01:19:25: Christian family. No, he doesn't. He has such a great emphasis on the perverted family.
01:19:32: And so we've got to be careful about these guys just because they believe in the Constitution is not enough.
01:19:41: And I tell people when they go to vote to don't do like most
01:19:47: Christians do and leave the Bible outside the voting booth. You believe the
01:19:53: Bible applies to every area of life. Well, it also sets the standard for people you should vote for.
01:20:01: And I determined many, many, many, many years ago that I would never vote for somebody for any political office that believed in abortion, for instance.
01:20:15: Number two, I will not vote for a homosexual. That's like voting for Philistines.
01:20:23: And yet Christians, this is where the ecumenism, unbiblical to humanism, shows on a practical level.
01:20:31: They vote out of fear. They're so afraid that so -and -so will get elected if they don't vote for this other guy.
01:20:41: And the other guy is a compromised conservative. Anytime you vote out of fear, you are going to be manipulated by the enemy.
01:20:56: And the argument they'll get is that we vote for the lesser of the two evil.
01:21:02: Better to vote for a conservative abortionist than a socialist abortionist.
01:21:11: Well, I'd like to point out where that phrase, the lesser of the two evils, came from. After World War I and the setting up of the
01:21:20: Weimar Republic in Germany, the Germans hated the Weimar Republic.
01:21:27: The great, powerful, capitalistic industrialists of Germany were not able to make money like they could make because they had to send all their money to the
01:21:38: Allies. And they weren't
01:21:44: Nazis. And they weren't communists. They were capitalists. But they hated the
01:21:49: Weimar Republic. And then in the 1930s, a young politician come to these great capitalists and say, if you'll vote for me for office,
01:22:00: I will destroy the Weimar Republic and set up a government where you can make all the money you want.
01:22:09: So it was all these great industrialists that decided to vote for the lesser of the two evils.
01:22:16: They didn't like this man, but they didn't like the Weimar Republic more. And so it was all these powerful, capitalistic industrialists in Germany that voted for the lesser of the two evils by the name of Adolf Hitler.
01:22:34: And it was their motive and influence that largely got him elected off. So the lesser of the two evils is evil.
01:22:44: And I made it a point a long time ago, I'm not going to vote for an abortionist or for a homosexual.
01:22:55: And I don't know how people justify it.
01:23:01: Is there an infallible, God -given, non -negotiable truth?
01:23:10: And is there a God -given, infallible, moral, absolute or not?
01:23:21: Can we lay them aside when we're afraid? I elect somebody who ultimately is an enemy of the
01:23:28: Christian faith just because we're afraid. Anything you do out of fear,
01:23:36: I assure you, you will compromise. Jesus said, in the world you will have tribulation, but do not be afraid.
01:23:48: I have overcome the world. It also applies to supporting non -anti -abortion organizations.
01:23:56: There's two organizations in Georgia that are allegedly anti -abortion.
01:24:04: One of them is great. It's called Georgia Right to Life. It's the best
01:24:10: Georgia Right to Life in the United States. My secretary for 18 years is the executive director.
01:24:18: Yes, I've had Ricardo on my show. Well, Ricardo, but I'm talking about a woman named
01:24:26: Simi Fleck. But Ricardo is great, too, both of those together. One Tupac.
01:24:32: So, they're not afraid to call abortion murder.
01:24:39: They believe there are no exceptions to abortion, that every abortion is murder and should be treated as murder.
01:24:51: And if you're a Republican and you're conservative on everything else, but you believe there are a few exceptions to abortion and that you'd be for it, you will get no money from them.
01:25:05: But then there's another organization, and it is headed by a radio celebrity named
01:25:12: Eric Erickson. And they don't like Georgia Right to Life because Georgia Right to Life has no exceptions to abortion.
01:25:22: And they do. They believe there are exceptions. There are some times where the abortion is permitted, regretfully, but nevertheless allowed.
01:25:34: And they support people for political office who believe there are exceptions.
01:25:43: And so they pull Christians. I mean, the head of it is an evangelical Christian, strong evangelical
01:25:49: Christian. And so because of his celebrity influence, they've got financial supporters.
01:26:00: Evangelicals love them. Georgia Right to Life has to struggle financially.
01:26:13: But the one that believes in some exceptions to abortion is guilty of compromising the moral absolutes.
01:26:25: Are there moral absolutes or not? Is abortion murder or is it not?
01:26:33: Is the Bible true or is it not? I mean, those are the questions. You can't compromise on those things. Truth is non -negotiable.
01:26:45: And yet, if you are a celebrity, that's one of the greatest sacred cows among evangelicals today.
01:26:53: That's why God has wiped out so many celebrities in recent months, either by death or by adultery or fraud or defeat.
01:27:07: Many of them have bit the dust. Because evangelicals are impressed with celebrities.
01:27:16: And if you're a celebrity and you profess to love Jesus, even if you do compromise the faith, they'll be for you.
01:27:26: So you see, that's how hideous ecumenism is. It is not just an intellectual thing.
01:27:35: It is a very wicked thing. And whether you are a blaspheming anti -Christian pervert or blaspheming anti -Christian pro -abortionist, or whether you're an evangelical who reads the
01:27:51: Bible every day and goes to church and loves celebrities and votes for people who believe their exceptions to abortion and loves homosexual news analysis, they're accomplices in one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century.
01:28:16: And we can't be sweet and nice about this thing. You talked about when you began your program about the culture war.
01:28:24: It is a war. People are dying in this war. Literally.
01:28:31: I've had at least three friends that have been assassinated, literally assassinated, by the enemy because they have been so strong standing for the
01:28:44: Christian faith. What's at stake? Your little children's lives and hearts and bodies are at stake.
01:28:59: And you are responsible to protect them from evil. The Bible says in Corinthians, come out from among them and be ye separate, says the
01:29:10: Lord, and do not touch the unclean. They don't even touch it.
01:29:18: Read Nehemiah chapter 13. See what
01:29:24: God thinks about unbiblical exhumation. Read the book of Revelation about the fall of Babylon, which represents an evil society built upon a principle of revolt against Almighty God.
01:29:42: What does God say to people? Leave Babylon. Don't intermingle with the
01:29:50: Canaanites. And Isaiah over and over condemns any kind of national alliances with nations that are not
01:30:05: Christian and does the same thing in the book of Jeremiah.
01:30:19: We are at war. People are really dying. Little children are getting their minds raped every day.
01:30:28: Christian family is under attack. And it's because the church is tentative.
01:30:40: Not just the liberals. I don't even count the liberals. I'm talking about the fundamentalists and evangelicals and even some reformed people.
01:30:51: They're the reason America is what it is today because of their compromise of the great heritage and legacy that God gave us all the way back to the late 1500s and 1600s with the
01:31:07: Puritans and the Pilgrims. Now, I don't want to get around that back there.
01:31:19: I was shocked and just found it utterly baffling to hear
01:31:29: David Rubin, the open homosexual, married to a man—so -called married, we know he's not really married—with with children that he's adopted.
01:31:40: He was doing an on -air commercial for Hillsdale College, and he actually mentioned the fact that they've got a special free series on the book of Genesis.
01:31:57: And I'm saying to myself, hey, David, check out
01:32:03: Genesis 19. That should really be fascinating to you because it's so about Sodom and Gomorrah.
01:32:12: Well, Hillsdale has never been known for its evangelicalism. It has been largely influenced by Roman Catholicism and humanism.
01:32:27: Tom. It seems to be much more concerned about conservative politics than the accuracy of God -breathed
01:32:40: Scripture. Yeah. So what the country needs is, number one, that the
01:32:51: Church repents of its failure to carry out the Great Commission and recommit itself to recapturing the hearts and minds of Americans to the
01:33:05: Christian faith and all of its purity unmixed by human opinion and to Christianize Christians.
01:33:17: That's even harder than saving the law sometimes for me, is work to save the law, get them to think like Christians.
01:33:28: People—I was thinking about, before you gave the title of what you want to talk about tonight, I thought about possibly talking about how to use the book of Romans in personal evangelism because most evangelicals don't know how to do evangelism.
01:33:48: They have no idea how to do evangelism. They've been taught by Billy Graham and Campus Crusade.
01:33:58: I believe Billy Graham was a humble man, but nevertheless, the doctrine of these non -reformed
01:34:05: Protestants, the Arminianism of these non -reformed
01:34:11: Protestants, the semi -Pelagianism of Roman Catholicism, has never saved anybody from hell.
01:34:26: And we must—the Church must repent of its lethargy, its neglect of our heritage, its compromise with the world, its synthesis, its confidence in man and in numbers, and remember simply what
01:34:49: God told Paul. My grace is all you need, because grace is more powerful than depravity.
01:35:04: But many evangelicals live as if it isn't. They come to me and they say, how in the world can we expect things to be changed in this country in the light of so much evil and depravity?
01:35:19: I say, well, where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. I have more confidence in the omnipotent grace of God than in anything man can produce.
01:35:37: By the way, we do have—finish your statement. We have a listener question
01:35:42: I wanted to read, but you finish your story. I'm finished. Go ahead. Okay. We have
01:35:49: Ursula in West Hampton, Long Island, who says, it seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that most of this acumen with Roman Catholics when it comes to conservative and Reformed Christians is coming out of the
01:36:07: Presbyterian Church, and I was wondering if that was why your Presbytery is one of the smaller ones, not one of the most popular ones.
01:36:22: The largest denominations in America are the Episcopal Church, the
01:36:28: Methodist Church, and the Presbyterian Church, and they're all apostate.
01:36:35: They all have left the historical foundations of the faith. They no longer believe in moral absolutes.
01:36:43: They no longer believe in infallibility of truth. They all believe in abortion. They believe in homosexuality, and so these big denominations of millions of people are some of the greatest instruments of evil in the
01:37:02: United States. That's why there are several small Presbyterian denominations that have left these larger denominations over the past 60 years.
01:37:13: Some of those denominations are growing. Some are small because they're being faithful, and largely our country doesn't want what we're feeling because it doesn't like the
01:37:28: God of Holy Scripture. They don't like a God like Jehovah. In fact, I read a book one time called
01:37:36: The History of God by some woman. I've forgotten her name, but she said in the first sentence of this book that man created
01:37:47: God in his own image, and then she goes through all the gods that people worship all over the world, named all of them from various religions, and then in the last chapter she said everybody should have a
01:38:05: God. You're going to need a God at weddings. You're going to need a God at funerals, so pick a good
01:38:13: God. Go through all these various gods that people worship in history and pick one, but there's one you do not want to pick because he is the source of all heartache and wars and divorces and divisions in the history of the world, and his name is
01:38:31: Jehovah. So our enemies understand this war and its object better than many of the evangelical
01:38:46: Christians. They're throwing hand grenades, and we're throwing cream puffs, and yet we have a power in the power of God that is greater than anything they have.
01:39:06: We have another listener, Tommy from Stewart, Florida, and Tommy says,
01:39:13: I have had conversations with many Bible -believing Presbyterians who shocked me when they tell me they believe that the
01:39:22: Roman Catholic Church, in spite of its flaws, is still a genuine representative of Christ's church on this earth.
01:39:30: Do you agree with this? Let me say, I do not know one real
01:39:36: Presbyterian that believes that. I know a lot of Presbyterians that believe it.
01:39:43: I know a lot of people that go into the name of Presbyterians, some famous people that say that, but I would never say that in the world at all, because it is absolutely impossible to believe in the
01:40:01: Roman Catholic doctrine and be a Christian. Now, I know some
01:40:07: Roman Catholics that have no idea what Roman Catholicism believes, and they're more
01:40:13: Protestant than they are Catholic. But for anybody to say that about the
01:40:18: Roman Catholicism does not understand either the Reformed faith or Roman Catholicism.
01:40:26: And you see, that's the synthesis, that's the ecumenism, that's what the world has bought.
01:40:34: All of these liberal Presbyterian denominations, of which there's one basic one of millions, believe that, but they left the faith a long time ago.
01:40:47: One time when I was a teenager, I was praying for the ministry, and I lived in West Virginia, and there wasn't any conservative
01:40:57: Presbyterian denominations around at that time. That was in the middle 60s.
01:41:04: But I went to a fundamentalist little Presbyterian church that was a member of a liberal
01:41:11: Presbyterian denomination. And so this Presbytery that I was in was one of the most liberal, unbiblical ones in the whole country.
01:41:23: And there was a young man being examined for the ministry. So he had to stand before Presbytery and all the preachers and be examined as to what he believed in order to be accepted into that denomination as a preacher.
01:41:41: Well, even I knew that he wasn't going to make it. I mean, I knew he was an evangelical, and I knew that this
01:41:48: Presbytery was dominated by liberals, and I knew he was not going to pass. So after the examination was almost over, an old country man from the mountains of West Virginia stood up, and he said,
01:42:04: Fathers and brethren, I have a few more questions to ask this young man. He said, number one, do you believe the
01:42:12: Bible is the infallible Word of God? He said, yes, sir, I do. He said, do you believe that Jesus Christ is the
01:42:21: Son of God and the Savior of sinners, and if you don't believe in Him as your Savior, you will go to hell and burn forever?
01:42:28: Yes, sir, I do. Do you believe that someday Jesus Christ is going to come back to earth physically and majestically in clouds of glory?
01:42:38: Yes, sir, I do. The old man said, well, there's only one more question I want to ask you, son.
01:42:45: With views like that, how do you expect to get into the Presbytery? I mean, he just smacked them all in the face.
01:42:56: But that's what that denomination is. So I would agree with your caller that the
01:43:04: Presbyterian, that these Presbyterians in these big denominations have left the faith. They are apostates.
01:43:11: And if somebody wants to be a Presbyterian, he better go to some of these smaller churches with smaller denominations.
01:43:19: Well, we have to go to our final break right now, and then don't go away. We're going to be back after these messages from our sponsors.
01:43:32: I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
01:43:42: Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the
01:43:51: Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.
01:43:58: It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.
01:44:10: Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
01:44:21: For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.
01:44:28: For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
01:44:36: heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.
01:44:45: Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. Puritan Reformed is a
01:44:58: Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.
01:45:08: Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image - bearing prophets, priests, and kings.
01:45:15: We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
01:45:28: We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt
01:45:34: Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
01:45:40: Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.
01:45:48: Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com
01:46:30: in Scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:46:40: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:46:53: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church and Franklin.
01:47:03: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:47:11: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:47:16: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
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01:49:03: I'm Simon O'Mahony, pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
01:49:09: Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.
01:49:18: At TRBC, we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession. We embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our triune
01:49:33: God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.
01:49:42: In our worship, we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every
01:49:47: Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.
01:49:55: That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.
01:50:01: And don't forget folks, Iron Truck and Zion Radio is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &
01:50:08: Associates. If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the
01:50:15: United States, call my longtime friend, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.
01:50:28: Please make sure you mention to Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm,
01:50:34: Buttafuoco & Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron. And we are now going to resume our conversation with my longtime dear friend,
01:50:48: Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III. Dr. Moorcraft, as I have announced already, is the founding pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.
01:51:01: He's an author of a number of books, among them the eight -volume commentary series on the
01:51:10: Westminster Larger Catechism, known as Authentic Christianity. Dr.
01:51:16: Moorcraft has become one of my very favorite guests to interview and a very favorite guest amongst a growing number of my listeners here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:51:29: So, I hope that we have many more years ahead of us featuring interviews with Dr.
01:51:36: Moorcraft. And we have Scotty, who is located in West Islip, Long Island, New York.
01:51:50: And Scotty says, one of the most difficult aspects of being free from ecumenism is in the realm of a very important fight, and that's the fight to end the murder of unborn babies, because so many
01:52:07: Roman Catholics are at the forefront of this movement. How do we participate with them without violating anything that you're saying?
01:52:17: I think that's an excellent question, and I remember James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, my longtime friend, years ago was very much involved in a pro -life organization, and he had to leave—he chose to leave, that is—because they forbid him to evangelize
01:52:41: Roman Catholics who are involved in these activities and meetings and so on, and they forbid him to say anything when they would be doing things like publicly praying the rosary and other things that Roman Catholics often do during the events that they have.
01:53:04: But I'm assuming that you think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's completely acceptable to work with Catholics and others on issues like that as long as we are not compromising our core beliefs and idolatry of being opposed to it as one of them.
01:53:23: So, am I right on that? I would put it this way. It's perfectly all right for them to work with us, that if we have a
01:53:33: Protestant, fairly biblical, pro -life organization like Georgia Rights Alive, where we believe that all abortion is murder, etc.,
01:53:43: any Roman Catholic who wants to, of course, can work with us. But not many of them do anymore, because most
01:53:54: Georgia Rights Alive in the state are controlled by the national
01:53:59: Rights Alive, which is Roman Catholic, and they believe in exceptions. So, Roman Catholicism was in the fight first, but through the years, they have compromised the faith.
01:54:15: And in Georgia Rights Alive, the overwhelming majority of them are Protestants.
01:54:21: If there are any Roman Catholics, it's not that we've sought them out, they've sought us out.
01:54:27: So, don't be unequivocally together with unbelievers. I mean, don't be involved in an organization, submit to an organization where people who do not believe the truth are in control, and where all of their strategies, etc.,
01:54:45: are not governed by the Word of God. So, like the atheist woman that supported my campaign, if Roman Catholics want to contradict their own views and join up with us, there's nothing to join.
01:55:02: But to be with us and give money to us, we'll take their money, we'll take their involvement. But they'll not be in any post of leadership, and they'll do it in spite of the fact that Rome has compromised its ban on abortion.
01:55:20: Well, I want you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this subject in about three minutes' time.
01:55:28: Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. What communion does light have with darkness?
01:55:38: If we can learn that, we're on our way to victory. And we must practice that in every area of life, every area of life.
01:55:49: For instance, in our church, if you put your child in a public school, that's a disciplinary offense.
01:55:57: If you're going to be a member of our church, you may not put your child in a public school. And, I mean, that's how strict this means to what holiness is.
01:56:13: Holiness, the church is a holy church. The Church of Christ is a holy church.
01:56:18: That means it is devoted and consecrated entirely from beginning to end to the living
01:56:25: God in terms of his revealed word and truth and his absolute moral principle.
01:56:35: So do we take the Bible seriously? Not enough just to be Bible, call ourselves
01:56:41: Bible -believing Christians if we don't live by the Bible in every area of life, no matter who we have to disagree with, no matter who stands against us.
01:56:51: And if you do live in terms of the sufficiency of scripture, you will have friends and family members lead you.
01:57:00: But they've been doing that for 2 ,000 years. And the blood of the martyrs is the feet of the church.
01:57:09: And so I call upon all these churches to be—understand that Christ is the
01:57:14: King, and in his church, only his word is law.
01:57:23: And his word must be obeyed regardless of the price we have to pay.
01:57:29: And if we compromise it in order to get celebrity or money or more numbers, we lose.
01:57:41: Amen. Well, I want to make sure our listeners have your primary websites.
01:57:48: Once again, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
01:57:55: That's the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia. And then, of course, we have the website for people who want to investigate and hopefully purchase your eight -volume set, a beautiful hardback eight -volume set of commentaries in the
01:58:13: Westminster Larger Catechism. They can be found at westminstercommentary .com,
01:58:20: westminstercommentary .com. And then, of course, for any of Dr.
01:58:27: Morecraft's writings, you can go to comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity .com.
01:58:38: And I want to remind our listeners, please, if you love Iron Trip and Zion Radio, we do need your financial support.
01:58:47: So, please go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
01:58:53: That's irontripandzionradio .com, and then click, click to donate now.
01:58:59: Also, I want to remind one more time, all men in ministry leadership, please try to attend my next free biannual
01:59:08: Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon, featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.
01:59:15: And that will be Thursday, September 18th, 11 a .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Lloydsville, Pennsylvania.
01:59:22: It's absolutely free of charge, and you'll not only get free food, but a ton of free books.
01:59:29: Go to irontripandzionradio .com and get the details from the rotating banner at the top of the page.
01:59:37: I want to thank you, Dr. Morecraft, for being such a superb guest as you always are, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater