Overcoming the Dragon — Robert B. Thompson

Lord, we do give you praise tonight. And our thankful Lord, you have brought us through so many things, Lord, safely by your power. And we thank you, Lord, for your goodness to us, Lord. Appreciate it.

Now, Lord, we pray for those among us who are in trials and testings. You will be with them, Lord, and bring them safely through. Every trial, every testing, bring them through victoriously. Lord, we pray in Jesus' name.

And, Lord, as we continue tonight, we look to you for wisdom. We look to you for the understanding of your word, Lord. We pray you'll give us just what we have need of this night. We'll thank you in Jesus' name.

Amen. Alright, we'll turn now to Revelation chapter 12. That's where we were in Sunday night. Now, Revelation 12 and Revelation 11 are talking about two different groups of people, right? Wrong. Revelation 11 is showing the saints how.

Revelation 11 and Revelation 12: Two Groups and Two Kinds of Witness

Huh? As external ministry or minister or bearing witness to the world. Prophecy that is external, it's not within the body. What is Revelation 12 talking about? The fourth of the brothers of Christ. We talked about Micah 5.

We talked about Isaiah 66. We talked about Galatians 4 .19. My little children from my travail and birth. Alright, so we're talking about, one thing was about his tales, verse 4. His tale swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.

Now, I always assumed that was meant that Satan had fallen and he had taken his wicked angels with him. The problem is that at this point Satan had not fallen, for one thing. Another thing, he flung them to the earth, which would not be reasonable if we're talking about the wicked angels.

Because up in verse 7 we find that the dragon and his angels were fighting in heaven. Now, when you get over to verse 13, then Satan has hurled to the earth. That's when they were hurled down, exactly as in verse 9.

That's when Satan's angels were brought down. So then, who do we conclude are the stars that were flung to the earth, then? Back up in verse 4. According to Daniel, and we looked at Daniel. Let's look at that again, because that was so significant and so weird.

Verse 5, she gave birth to a son, a male, who was to rule all the nations with the blood of an iron. Yes. And her child was caught up to God and to his throne. Right. And then it goes into the fact that Satan had rewarded him and the dragon was thrown down.

Right. I always thought this was referring to Jesus being born, but it doesn't make sense.

Christ Formed in Believers and the Promise of Rule

Well, it's Christ being born in us, is what it is. It's the ruler being born in us, because you remember in Revelation chapter 2, if you recall, around verse 27, it says, Him that overcomes will I give to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

And then it says, and I will give him the morning star. Now, that's the key. The morning star is Jesus, and it's only as Jesus is in us that we can rule the nations, because He is the ruler. And speaking of a travail, you've got Sunday night's tape, but we will be going to Daniel chapter 8, verses 9 and 12, possibly 10 and 12.

But the thing about it, Andrew, is this, that when we start off in the Lord, as we see in Ephesians 2 .6, we are already at the right hand of God. That's what Ephesians 2 .6 says, He has raised us up and has set us at the right hand of God.

That's nothing that we do. That is an arbitrary act of God based on our accepting Jesus. But then, that's what the scholars, and you've probably heard the term in Point Loma, call our position, our position in Christ, is that we're at the right hand of God.

But then, we notice as we go along in a struggle, we're struggling to get our life up there, so that we're really living there. Not just there positionally, but we know that we have overcome. And it's kind of, as I said, we know when we do.

We know when we pray through. At some point in our Christian experience, we pray through until we know we've broken through. And in my mind, that's when Christ is in us, breaks through, is hidden with Christ in God.

It's not just positional, but we actually have fought our way there. We actually have fought and overcome that which would press us down. And once that happens, then we have to maintain it. And every time we're tested as Satan strives continually to tear us down to earth, continually with temptations, with fear, with unforgiveness, with worry, the things of the world.

Many a person has left the ministry and gone into real estate and other activities such as that, that are much more, that bring wealth, that bring wealth. A minister made minister for 25 years and he's as poor when he finishes up as when he started.

And he figures, enough of this. You know, I'm going to go out and make a few shekels, and they do. And I'm not here to blame anyone, but it tears you down from your high place. Because to keep your high place in God, once you break through into that place in God, to keep it requires a great deal of diligence, because that's our crown.

It's given to us, but the battle is to keep it. To keep ourselves at the right hand of God. To keep from being torn down. And worry can do it. Anger at people can do it. The accumulation of bitternesses that come during years of church attendance.

Spiritual Death in Churches and the Need to Break Through

Audrey and I can remember being in churches, I don't know what, there's something different about this church. I don't know what it is or why it is, but there's something different about this church. Because I can remember when we went to other churches in time past, it makes me think of what it says about Babylon, it becomes a hold of every unclean spirit.

And all I have to do is hear a tape recording of a special from one of those churches that we came out of. And I just crawl inside. I just crawl, because I can't put my finger on it, but I do know that numerous evangelical churches crawling with spirits of bitterness and hatred and division and covetousness.

People come to church Sunday after Sunday, but it makes no difference. I don't know what the difference is, but I do know I don't ever want to go back there into that. Ever want to go back into that. I can remember we'd have a special.

More deliverance. And some dear soul would get up, maybe with her husband, and the first thing they'd say is, I really can't sing, but I want to give God the glory. Every time they'd say that. And they would sing.

And it was enduring, you just endure. And always when they're finished, they'd go a ripple through the congregation like Amen and all that. And that would happen. Oh Lord, such death. And I don't know why this church is dead.

I think sometimes when we come in, even on a Tuesday night, you know, and the Bible says, I've been in churches on Tuesday night. And someone would go up and say, well, what song do you think we should sing tonight?

And they'll begin to thumb through looking for a song to sing tonight. I don't ever want to go back there. And I think a lot of it has to do with breaking through. There's something that you break through.

And I know those people have never broken through, and their pastors haven't broken through it. It just isn't there. And when we break through, there's a presence of God. And as I said, sometimes the tongue that you speak in tongues will change.

Or God will give you a song. I remember one time praying through, maybe it happens several times in your life, I don't know. But one time I was by myself, I was in the basement of the auxiliary building, the annex of the Fremont Assembly of God.

And I was down there, and it was about 7 o 'clock in the morning, I guess. I used to like to go down there on Sunday morning and pray the sunup. And I was just fighting something that was troubling me.

And I broke through in prayer. And God gave me a song. Remember, You Have Overcome. That I can't remember. But anyway, it was a song, but the tune was like bells singing. Well done, well done, well done my servant.

Well done, well done, well done my son. Well, these kinds of things will happen. And you don't expect them, but you know that you're in a kind of a travail. And something is being born in you. And as you just keep pressing the battle and refusing to give in to anything.

And you break through. And I've always associated that experience with this. That Christ is forming you, and when He does, He ascends. Because Christ in us will not be revealed during the church age. During the church age, we will minister with gifts and ministries.

But the ministry, see Christ did not minister with gifts. Christ ministered from the presence of God Almighty within Him. It was not partial. They're bowed upon Him, like Tony one time wanted us to read Isaiah 11.

Because it reminds you of the seven spirits of God that are before the throne of God. The only problem is I remember is there's only six of them. And I've wondered many times, what's the seventh spirit?

But it's in Isaiah chapter 11. And the different spirits. And these were all on Christ. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse. From his roots a branch will bear fruit. That's Isaiah 11. The Spirit of the Lord will rest upon him.

Now look at them. Here they are, Tony. The spirit of wisdom. The spirit of understanding. See we get a gift of wisdom. See that's one of the gifts of the spirit. But when Christ is revealed within us, which will happen at the revealing of the sons of God when He comes.

Then we'll have that which is perfect. We'll have the fullness of the spirit of wisdom. We'll have the fullness of the spirit of understanding. The fullness of the spirit of counsel. The fullness of the spirit of power.

The fullness of the spirit of knowledge. Maybe the fear of the Lord is seven, I don't know. The spirit of knowledge, that brings us up. Wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge. No, the fear of the Lord is six, isn't it?

Spirit, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge, the fear of the Lord. But you see in Revelation chapter one, it says, Greetings from Him and from the seven spirits who are before His throne.

And this only lists six, so it's possible. It's possible. The spirit of rest. Rest? Yes. It's possible. I couldn't dispute any of those. I do know that the Holy Spirit is light. And light is divided into seven primary colors.

And Jesus has them all. And so when Christ is born in us, comes forth through the travail, we don't minister on the earth with that. It's caught up against the day of vengeance of our God. Yes?

Wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge, and fear. Isn't that the spirit of the Lord?

I think they're all included in the spirit of the Lord. Very possible. Well, something to pray about. I've never, it's never come to me. Maybe it will someday, I don't know. And maybe those aren't the seven spirits.

Maybe there are seven other ones. But in any case, we do go through that travail. And you know when you break through. When you break through, you cannot pray anymore. You can just praise. There just isn't a prayer there.

It's just praise. It's there. The burden is over. Now, I think you have to do that a few times until you get established. Until you're not living here. Your spiritual life is not here anymore. It's at the right hand of God.

Psalm 91, Spiritual Protection, and Living Above Known Sin

And I think that's very important if we're going to survive in the age of moral horrors that's on the horizon. I think in order to survive, we're going to have to be living, like it says in Psalm 91. See, to whom are the promises made of the protection of Psalm 91?

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High. See? And if we're abiding in Christ, we're at the right hand of God because that's where He is. I like the last couple of verses of Psalm 91. It says, because He has set His love upon my, I will deliver Him.

I will set Him on high because He has known my name. Again, in Isaiah, it says that if we don't lift up our soul into vanity and all these things, we will see the King. We will see the land that is far off.

We will see the King in His beauty. So, one of the great instances of our spiritual life as a Christian is to pray and obey, pray and obey until we're living at the right hand of God. And so then, we still have battles, we still have temptations, but we're coming at them from a position of strength.

And you can tell when people are not living that way, they say things like, well, as long as we're in the world, we have to sin and nobody's perfect and these kinds of things. And the reason is because they know that periodically they're giving in to things.

They're doing things that they know they shouldn't. And God does not want us doing things we know we shouldn't. And so we battle until we're not doing things we know we shouldn't. And then we know it's possible to overcome.

And we refuse, we may stumble and fall, but we don't say, oh well, that's the way it is. We confess our sins to the Lord, we make what restitution we can, and then we go on. We don't come out and say, well, as long as I'm in the world, I have to sin.

We get the victory! And we live at the right hand of God where we're supposed to. And we don't accept anything else. We don't have something in our life we're toying with. You know, maybe I, you know, I'm not sure I can overcome this, or I'm not sure I want to overcome this, or whatever.

You get very impatient with that. Like Job's horse. In Job, the 39th chapter, he smells the battle afar off. He hears the thunder of the captains and the shouting, and he covers the ground. He's getting impatient.

You get impatient. I don't want to be in that morass. I told the Lord that in Bible school. I said, I don't want to live like that. Well, I know that you feel the same way. Is there any question about that so far?

So we see there's a struggle inside. But you do break through. There is a breaking through. Hallelujah. And I think that's what it's describing. Yes?

So, if you struggle, and you break through, and then that heart is risen to the right hand of the Father, where the dragon is there, that's waiting to cast it down again?

Sure, sure. He's there. He's accusing you all the time. Warring against you.

Tempting you. So it's not done, then, at that moment when you tell him you've broken through? It's not finished, no.

But the thing is, you're approaching it differently. That's probably what I have sensed. And whenever I come close to these churches that we came out of, that's probably what I sense. I just feel like getting up and yelling.

What are you doing? This isn't God. This is some kind of a religious death you're in. And I think it's because they've persuaded themselves that it's impossible to overcome. They're already whipped. And they've been taught that you can't have the victory.

They've been taught you can't have the victory. In spite of the fact that all the rewards are to the overcomer, they're taught, the mostly evangelical churches are taught you can't have the victory. As long as you're in this world, you have to sin.

And the Bible doesn't say that. It says the opposite. Sin shall not have dominion over you. And we're debtors not to the flesh. It teaches the opposite. First John 3 says, you can't sin because the seed's in him.

And that means when we respond to that seed that's in us, and we live and nurture it, it overcomes. The seed in us overcomes. It's Jesus Christ. And it's not addressed to our... First John says that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

And the next verse says if we confess our sin, he is faithful just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. My little children, I write unto you that you don't sin. Well, if you sin, we have an advocate.

Well, what do you do? Then the third chapter says that if we're in him, that no man that abides in him keeps on sinning. Man, out of Paul and John, the Christian life is a life of victory. It's not a life of defeat.

Well, I guess I've got to sin. Because once you say that, you're going to sin. You're certainly going to sin. You've persuaded yourself that Christ can't do it in you, and that's it. The Bible says in Romans 6, sin shall not have dominion over you.

So what do we say? We're sinlessly perfect? No, we're saying that we're living above it by the grace of God. And when we're tempted, we get the victory, and we go on. Hallelujah. Then we have a clear conscience toward God, and the blood keeps on making up the difference.

That's probably what I sense in these other churches, is a lack of anyone standing up in the middle of them and telling them you're supposed to overcome. They never hear that. In fact, they're taught the opposite.

I was taught the opposite in Bible school. I was told by the older saints, you can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. As long as you're in the world, you've got to sin, sonny, so just get used to it.

As you just said, it then seems that the key to overcoming is our position and abiding in Christ. If we abide in Him, then we can overcome. We don't overcome when we're abiding in Him. Exactly. Exactly.

Abiding in Christ, Obedience, and the Overcoming Life

Exactly. The secret, if there is a secret, of the overcoming life is God and man working together. We can't do it alone, and God won't do it alone. It's the sword of the Lord and of Gideon. And when we do what we can, God gives us the victory.

Because it never is the Lord's will, never, never, never, for any Christian to walk in known sin. In known sin. A lot of times we sin in ignorance or because of deception or whatever. But once we know what it is, once we know where we're going, it is not God's will for us to say, well, I just can't help myself and the devil made me do it.

It's not God. It's not God. It's not God. Never. I told you before about that dream the Lord gave me about jumping out of the ship and the water was only up to my waist. I knew what the Lord was telling me.

That people were drowning. And there was no need for it. It was because they were ignorant. It was perfectly possible to live the overcoming life. If it were not Revelation 2 and 3, God's just mocking us.

Just mocking us. Oh, no. That's not the way God does. We can overcome through Jesus Christ. Otherwise, what we're saying is He can only forgive us, but He can't give us the victory. And that is what most of the church believes.

Isn't that also the commandment? We are to overcome as He overcame? Yes. Well, there's always been a promise.

There's no choice to this. This is what we must do. That's right. That's in Revelation 3, verse 22 or 21. To him that overcomes, even as I also overcame. He that overcomes, as I overcame, I will grant to sit with me in my throne as I sat with my Father in His throne.

That's Revelation 3, verse 21 or 22. We just have to overcome. And like you said, we don't overcome in order to abide in Christ. We overcome by means of abiding in Christ. Because He is the overcomer with a capital O.

But we don't overcome because we're identified with Him. That's thought, you know. He's righteous and we're righteous by identification. That means we're not righteous. That means He's holy. We're unholy.

But we're holy because we're identified with Him. That's no kingdom. That's a house of cards. There is no new creature there. No way. Well, that's the great error of our time. It's enormous. All right.

Rebellion, Gethsemane, and the Testing of the Will

Now, this I think is so tremendously important because it's going to be happening in our time that Antichrist, Satan through Antichrist, however, will reach up to the starry host. The starry host. Remember, it's the stars that are brought down.

Well, how are they brought down? Because God permits them to be shaken. See, you can go through your Christian life and be saved and be filled with the Spirit. And then somewhere down the line, God tests you concerning your will.

And right there is determined whether you're going to be in God's army or not. Just being saved won't do it. Those who are with Him, it says in Revelation 17, are called, chosen, and faithful. And it's in that third realm of faithfulness that God's warriors are pulled out.

And if you can see in verse 12, the issue is rebellion. Because you see, we're saved and we speak in tongues and prophesy, but that doesn't mean the problem of rebellion has been solved. We don't know whether the problem of rebellion is solved until we hit some kind of Gethsemane.

And it was because Christ learned obedience by the things He suffered. Oh, where did He suffer? In Gethsemane. When His will came into conflict with God's will. In Gethsemane, Christ's will came into conflict with God's will.

When Jesus said, not my will but yours be done, then His will was not to bear the sins of the world. And so at that moment, the will of Christ and the will of the Father were in conflict. And it was right there that the salvation of the world was determined.

And I'm sure when Abraham marched up the hill there with Isaac, that his will was not to offer Isaac a burnt offering. So in the Garden of Eden, the two wills came into conflict. Eve's will and God's will, with a little help from the serpent.

And Eve disobeyed. And Adam disobeyed. So the problem from the beginning has been rebellion. Not the lust of the flesh. Because Adam and Eve had no lust in their flesh. Not worldliness. Adam and Eve had no worldliness.

The original sin, and the basis of all sin, is rebellion. And so Abraham, to be the father of all who believe, had to be tested in the area of rebellion. And Jesus, in order to be the heir of all the works that he himself had created, had to be tested in the area of rebellion.

So he said, not my will. I am not going to rebel. My will is not to do this. If it's possible, let it pass from me. Because this is not my will. That had nothing to do with the lust of the flesh. Had nothing to do with worldliness.

It's the original issue. And that's where the church is today. That's where the Christian church is today. I noticed when God first started talking to me about the three deaths and three resurrections, that the will is the third death, I realized that in Christian literature I had never read any writing about the death of the will.

I had read about overcoming sin and holiness and about leaving the world, but I'd never read any clear... There were things where missionaries went out and did the will of God and fervent Christians did the will of God, but I had never read of it as being separate from the passions of the flesh.

I mean, it was all lumped together as sin. But as a discreet, clearly defined issue, I had never read of it. Now, Jesse Penn Lewis and I think Fenelon and Madam Gion talked about death to some, to a certain extent, but it's in very mysterious language, particularly in Madam Gion, it's very mysteriously couched in steps that you move toward the crucifixion of the soul or something, and it's all good, and it's been a tremendous blessing to people.

But to lay it out, you know, here's one sin, worldliness. Here's the second area, the passions of your flesh. Here's the third area, will. I never read it. So I think that maybe... Now, Andrew could help me with this, because he's much more learned in the works of the early church than I am, but I don't think the Christian church has ever really faced this issue, that you can't just take...

You can get saved, filled with the Spirit, but you can't just take things and run out with them. You have to do God's will that way. You have to wait until you know what you're doing and obey the Lord, even though it means many years of doing nothing, just waiting, waiting, waiting, obeying, waiting, waiting, while God tests you in so many ways.

So, and this may be reserved for the end time. Andrew? Did they define it in doctrine? Yes, and I know that many great saints of church history have done God's will against their own, but I have never seen it laid out clearly as a separate issue from sin.

Deliverance from Sin as a Reward for Obedience

Because, you see, and this is tricky, but it's worth, if you can get a hold of it. Deliverance from sin is a reward. See, we usually think of deliverance from sin as bringing a reward, and it does. It brings a reward of eternal life.

But actually, deliverance from sin is a reward for obeying God. See, we can't deliver ourselves from sin because the bondages are spiritual, the chains are spiritual. And so, we don't overcome in the sense of breaking those chains, because we don't have the power to break those chains.

We overcome by doing what God tells us, and our reward for doing what God tells us is to have the sin removed. He breaks the bondage of sin and brings us into liberty because we obeyed Him. And then, there's a reward for being delivered.

So, there's a double action that takes place. The first reward is to be delivered from the bondages, and the second reward is the result of being free from the sin. So, where that's important is this.

It's often taught that we stand before the judgment seat of Christ will be rewarded for what we have done. Well, people have said, we don't have to worry about it because the judgment of sin was accomplished on the cross.

And that's true. But what they don't realize is we're not going to be judged because of things that we can't help. We were born in sin. And it would be very unjust of God to turn around and judge us for something that we didn't ask for.

We didn't ask to be born in sin. I mean, there's not a one of us in here but what wished we were born righteous. So, how unjust that would be for God to come and say, you were born in sin, and therefore I'm punishing you for being born in sin.

See, that doesn't quite equate. But what God will judge us for at the judgment seat of Christ is our decisions. The things we were capable of doing. And every one of us, when we die, the Lord will sit down with us and rehearse with us our life.

And that is not to say that it's all going to be accusatory. It's as we receive the good we have done and the bad we have done. Not just the bad we have done. There will be a lot of explanation. And the Lord will tell us, this is why this happened.

And this is why you were brought through this. This is why I permitted this. See, He'll just sit down and talk to you. And if you can say, well, Lord, from what I knew, what I knew when I was sure of what I was doing, Lord, I did what I thought was right, then what's there to judge you for?

Because what you did wrong was the result of bondages, which you did not want. There's not a person in this room that wants bondage. We don't want bondage. So the Lord didn't come to blame us for something we don't want.

But the Lord, He brings us along. Okay, we had an opportunity to accept Christ. Did we do it? If we didn't, we'll be judged for not having received Christ. And then, for all the sins that we did as a result of not having done what God told us to do.

See, so it's a double whammy the other way. Okay, so we accepted Christ and we went along, and then there was a call on us to the ministry, but instead we decided how we wanted our life to go. We didn't want to go live with the fleas along the Amazon and sleep in a hammock beaten alive by fleas and live where there's dirt and everything else.

We didn't want to do that, so we said, no, thank you. So then when we sit down and talk with the Lord, the Lord will show us. Look, He'll show us all multitudes of people. These would have been in your fruit.

But you disobeyed me. And this is the consequence. You're losing your talent. Just talk it over with you reasonably. Then you went along and maybe you became a minister. You obeyed the call of God. And then you were attracted by money or you did something else.

No, that isn't the direction I want to go. The Lord told you to do something. The Lord warned you about something. Maybe you were in a big church or something and the Lord said, no, I want you to leave this and I want you to go into a street evangelism.

Or I want you to go teach in Bible school. I want you to do something like that. You said, no, look at the church, Lord. You know, it's a mega church and people are getting saved and all this. But the Lord said, and He had a reason.

And then you stayed in that church and you fell. Through money. Through taking the glory of yourself. Through immorality. And the Lord saw that coming. But the thing you'll be judged on is the fact that when the Lord told you to do something you didn't do it.

See, because you don't have power to control the chains of sin. To a certain extent you can use self-control but it's still in there and it'll pop out under the right pressures. The Lord has to deliver you if you're going to be delivered from sin.

He has to deliver you. You can't deliver yourself. You can use self-control and you can pray and ask for help in the time of temptation and God will make a way to escape. The Bible promises us that. But what God's going to hold us accountable for is, did you do what I told you?

And if we were disobedient the result will have been we will not have been delivered from sin and then we're going to be judged for the disobedience and then all the consequences that went on. So, yes, the sin was judged once and for all on Calvary.

But how we live was not settled on Calvary. And so we can either obey God or disobey God. So the issue boils down to rebellion. And that's just exactly what it says. Now, if you look in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 26, but now he says, I'll shake not only the earth but also the heavens.

And then he says, he tells us why the words once more indicate the removing of that which can be shaken, that is created things so that what cannot be shaken may remain. It reminds you of Abraham, a city with foundations.

And the only thing that cannot be shaken is that which is of Jesus Christ because He's not created. So it can't be shaken. But that which is of us can be shaken. So our job is to keep abiding in Christ so that He has formed in us.

And when He has formed in us, then we cannot be shaken. One of the big problems in the end time is going to be fretting about evil and about the evil things people do. And boy, that can tear you right down from your place at the right hand of God and cause you to lose.

I think sometimes people get all, Christians get all shook up and go into politics. And I'm not saying that God doesn't call some Christians into politics. He probably does. But I think as a rule, for most of us, we should keep out of it.

I haven't seen any good come out of this Christian right, or even in the California level, out of any of this. I have not seen good come out of it. I don't think God wants us messing with the democratic process.

Christian Witness, Politics, and the Unshakable Kingdom

Our job is to bear witness. That's our job. Now, as I said, I'm not saying that some shouldn't go into politics, but they want to remember that's only possible because we're in a democracy. If we weren't in a democracy, they couldn't do any of their things.

So they're participating in democratic society as Christians. Jesus said, if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight. Now is my kingdom not from hence. And it's just caused the public to get in an uproar, the secular people get in an uproar, the Christian right wing is trying to do this and that.

I don't believe it's a good idea. I think what God wants us is to rule with Christ at his right hand and bear witness and not be torn down because of the homosexuals. Vermont judges have said that the legislature in Vermont either has to legalize marriage for homosexuals or else a very substantial partnership arrangement that gives them the full benefits of marriage.